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In the Name of God بسم الله
Basim Ali

Shia Students Walk Out During Australian Anthem

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Australia school criticised for letting Muslim students walk out during national anthem
Scott Morrison, Australia’s treasurer, attacks school’s “pathetic” decision to allow Muslim students to skip singing of the national anthem during a religious mourning period

Scott Morrison, a senior Australian government minister, has criticised a school which allowed Muslim students to leave an assembly for the singing of the national anthem during a religious period of mourning.

 

The head of Cranbourne Carlisle primary school allowed about 30 to 40 Shia Muslim students aged eight to ten to leave the assembly, saying it was the Muharram period for the children, a sacred month when Shia Muslims observe a period of mourning, and they should not be required to take part in “joyous” events.

 

“It wasn’t a pre-thought-out action,” Cheryl Irving, the school principal, told Channel 10.

“When they came to the assembly, they were caught in a dilemma. They knew that they should not be taking part in music. They also knew that the national anthem had music, so they were caught in a dilemma and didn’t know what to do. Some stood to leave, so the teacher intervened and gave them the opportunity to move out quietly, so they weren’t confused and they weren’t upset.”

The decision angered parents, while Muslim schools said it was standard for all Muslim students to sing Advance Australia Fair, the national anthem.

Mr Morrison, the national treasurer, equivalent to Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer, said he was offended by the school’s actions and believed it deserved the “muppet of the year award”.

“I know people of Muslim faith [who] would be just as offended about this as you or I would,” he told Radio 3AW.

“I just shook my head and went ‘that’s just doing nobody any favours’. Some do-gooder’s tried to make a point and they’ve ended up damaging the whole show. So look, they get the muppet of the year award from me for that.”

The education department in the state of Victoria reportedly backed the school, saying it was important to respect religious observances of all students.

Kuranda Seyit, from the Islamic Council of Victoria, said the situation was a “storm in a teacup”.

"I think that it is important that we don't blow this out of proportion, and understand that the national anthem is something that Muslims take great pride in singing,” he told The Age. “In this particular incident it happened at a time when they were not allowed to sing and I think we should respect that choice."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11959894/Australia-school-criticised-for-letting-Muslim-students-walk-out-during-national-anthem.html

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I don't know what to think of this. I mean I thought patriotic songs were allowed anyway. Also, the fact that they're saying it's the music the students may have had a problem with means they should have a problem with it the rest of the year too. I'd imagine if whoever is having trouble understanding this part of the children's religion, wouldn't be too pleased after learning that they'd have (or should have) a problem with it at other times too. 

 

I don't think anyone's annoyance over this is unjustified. National anthems are usually a matter of a country's respect. Most people are required to stand up for it as long as it's playing. 

 

What does everyone else think? 

 

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“When they came to the assembly, they were caught in a dilemma. They knew that they should not be taking part in music. They also knew that the national anthem had music, so they were caught in a dilemma and didn’t know what to do. Some stood to leave, so the teacher intervened and gave them the opportunity to move out quietly, so they weren’t confused and they weren’t upset."

 

***

 

Focus on this, Done. They have religious rights, if being a part of the national anthem isn't accepted because of Muharram then fine. It is only a "big deal" because their Muslims. If they were Jews, Hindus, Christians, or whatever then no one would say a word. Anything anti-Islam in accepted in MSM.

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

I stand with Imam Hussayn 3la salam. I would also leave as well. I would go to the library during lunch when it was month of Ramadhan, I wore my shar3i and white scarf during graduation instead of the gown, when it was Ashura I didn't go to school. Among other things where my religion took precedent over what was found normal in school.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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 They have religious rights, if being a part of the national anthem isn't accepted because of Muharram then fine.

 

This is exactly what I'm questioning. If they walked out during the national anthem in Muharram, why should they not walk out the rest of the year? It's not like you're suddenly not allowed to be 'part of music' due to the arrival of the month of Muharram. 

 

Also, I'm actually in awe of the parenting these children received. I don't think I'd be capable of being in any sort of dilemma in primary school and would just do what I want. 

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This is exactly what I'm questioning. If they walked out during the national anthem in Muharram, why should they not walk out the rest of the year? It's not like you're suddenly not allowed to be 'part of music' due to the arrival of the month of Muharram. 

 

Also, I'm actually in awe of the parenting these children received. I don't think I'd be capable of being in any sort of dilemma in primary school and would just do what I want. 

 

National anthems are not considered haraam, to the best of my knowledge.

 

But that's in general. There are different expectations from a momin during the month of Muharram.

 

I am not saying it would have been haraam for them to stay; but there is a certain decorum that we are supposed to keep during the time of Muharram which is perhaps different than the rest of the year.

 

 

BTW welcome back broham

Edited by baradar_jackson

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Guest silasun

Do you guys not think that when it comes to things that aren't waajib and haraam (like this music, which I guess would be halal but I have never heard it) that we shouldn't do things which are "not ordinary"? I find it quite annoying when Muslims don't make it easy for the other people- shouldn't the parents of the kids told the school days in advance? We have an obligation to represent our faith in a good light- when we do our waajib and stay away from haraam in the most awkward way possible, it is not fulfilling our duty to the religion and makes others think Islam is a difficult religion- which is not the case.

 

It is a storm in a teacup. I don't get how on Earth it has managed to get it to British media but that is the Telegraph for you- the same trash as Fox, Daily Mail, The Sun etc but for people who think they are clever. Sadly the same is replicated in the BBC and other media outlets, but more covertly than those blatant Islamophobic media outlets.

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I taught school for many years. The Jehovahs Witnesses cannot say the pledge or sing the national anthem. They never can. They simply stand respectfully and remain silent. They are often kept home by parents or are given alternative activities on holidays which might fall while school is in session such as Halloween or Valentine's Day. ( School is usually out for Christmas and other holidays, so no big deal there.) I don't recall it being a problem.

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All Music is not haram but it is Islamic practice to refrain from even halal things (music is not halal either) during certain occasions.

 

Music is at best mubah (netural) in some cases and makrooh or haram in other cases.

 

These Shia Muslims kids are brave that they stood for their belief. May Allah swt bless them and keep them in the group of Imam Mahdi.

Edited by Irfani313

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I'm sure nothing to do with whipping up flag-waiving xenophobia against vulnerable minorities for short term political ends, for the pleasure of ignoramuses.  And 8-10 year old children for god sake.  This dude should get the award for "crybaby of the year". 

 

If this dude is "offended" by this situation, how do you think the victims of Karbala felt on the day of Ashura, or their mourners of today? 

 

I'm going back to living under my rock. 

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Lets forget the issue of haram or halal music for right now. The point is, these young kids have such a level of respect for our Imam and what happened on the day, they do not want to participate. Leave it at that, and its FULLY valid reason. Heck come on its only like a few minutes too. Yall and especially the people that are against this is making a huge deal about 10 yr olds leaving an "assembly". Regardless, all assembles are a waste of time

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When I was in school & university, I know well, sometime Shia groups like to make things bigger than they seem, and they like to grab attention in the wrong ways. Not grabbing the peoples attention to the Shia faith. But grabbing peoples attention to "eyyy we´re Shia baby"

Edited by John Al-Ameli

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When I was in school & university, I know well, sometime Shia groups like to make things bigger than they seem, and they like to grab attention in the wrong ways. Not grabbing the peoples attention to the Shia faith. But grabbing peoples attention to "eyyy we´re Shia baby"

 

 

HUH? Almeli, Buddy, first of all, its others who are putting the attention on them. Second, have you heard of freedom to practice religion? If someone finds something disrespectful then they have the right to step outside until what ever the case maybe is done. I dont care about other shias. That isnt a valid argument. We are taking about one specific case, and that is now these children. You say not grabbing attention to the shia faith? What is that suppose to even mean? THEY ARE LITTLE KIDS. Even if they werent, those who are not ignorant will understand who is in the right and who is in the wrong. Its clear as day. If you think it is disrespectful you can ask for a leave, if not, then stay, the decision is their to make. So please think before when you claim they are trying to grab attention. Thats ridiculous. It is others and you who are making this such a huge issue.

Edited by Ethics

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HUH? Almeli, Buddy, first of all, its others who are putting the attention on them.

When people tend to make a big issue of something thats nothing really, you are putting yourself under the spotlight

 

Second, have you heard of freedom to practice religion? If someone finds something disrespectful then they have the right to step outside until what ever the case maybe is done

 

#1, If it is Haram then national anthems are haram to listen to the whole year not only in Muharram.

#2. Please explain how is a National Anthem haram to listen to? Are we being Wahhabist here now?

 

We are taking about one specific case, and that is now these children. You say not grabbing attention to the shia faith? What is that suppose to even mean? THEY ARE LITTLE KIDS.

 

Dude you want to convince me that several 10 year old kids gathered and decided to walk out on an assembly in a genuine manner. Are we being rational here? We might as well check their parents. Usually parents are behind such actions.

 

Anyway what happened happened there is no need for discussion.

Edited by John Al-Ameli

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When people tend to make a big issue of something thats nothing really, you are putting yourself under the spotlight

 

#1, If it is Haram then national anthems are haram to listen to the whole year not only in Muharram.

#2. Please explain how is a National Anthem haram to listen to? Are we being Wahhabist here now?

 

Dude you want to convince me that several 10 year old kids gathered and decided to walk out on an assembly in a genuine manner. Are we being rational here? We might as well check their parents. Usually parents are behind such actions.

 

Anyway what happened happened there is no need for discussion.

 

1&2 I never mentioned anything about haram or halal, that isnt the point I made (Not sure if you indeed read my post or not, but I specifically put halal and haram matters outside of this discussion), nor was it the reason for them to leave. It was because they felt it was disrespectful to the mourning of Hussain A.S. That is up to the person. You speak about rational? Do you not realize what children are capable of and how much they truly understand, being taught or not? MashAllah, there are younger kidsat my mosque that realize and understand the whole purpose of the blessed month and more (as their OWN choice). I do not need to go outside of personal experience and bring you scientific evidence or proofs of young children having better mental understandings than adults do I?

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I'm sure nothing to do with whipping up flag-waiving xenophobia against vulnerable minorities for short term political ends.

Pretty much what this is about. I saw it all the time...using the school system as a political football. The teacher helped the kids out, the school backed the kids, the school district backed the kids... only this politician made a big deal out of it. I don't personally feel the kids needed to leave, but it was still a non-story until the " government minister" got involved. Just hope the assembly wasn't about " how our Islamic students love to sing our national anthem" or something.

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When I taught, students who objected to Christmas programs were excused.

 

And 7-Day Adventists, Quakers and others were not compelled to say the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the National Anthem even in the Cold War 50s and 60s.

 

So what is wrong-in-the-head with the Minister of Culture.

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