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In the Name of God بسم الله

Bizarre Ashoura Ritual Infiltrations

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1. Your lack of understanding the recommendations are the problem, throwing around hadith like the neighborhood google champion is not impressive. When you cry out loud, you inspire others to mourn an

Bismehe Ta3ala, Assalam Alikum. All I know is when Imam says hal min nassarin yinsouruna, he wasn't referring to these practices. There is jihad opened in 3raq, Lebanon, Syria, and Yemen they can go

Bismeh Ta3ala, Assalam Alikum Imam Hussayn gave his sons, his life for the sake of our pure religion. His wives, daughters and Sayyida Zaynab became prisoners of war. How does anyone interpret the a

[MOD NOTE: This topic has offensive posts. Reader beware.]

As you see, the topic I didnt say tatbir, because people have forgot that its not only tatbir anymore. It has really gotten out of hand.

I want to share with you the crazy infiltrated traditions that have done two things:

1. Show a complete opposite understanding of the revolution of Imam Hussein, and the understanding of the tragedy of Karbala, and struggle of Imam Hussein, and his family and companions.

2. The craziest image to the world, instead of showing the world the true story of the tragedy, we are showing them a circus, either to laugh at us, or to look at us with disgust.

 

Where are we going with this? Till when will all these traditional Maraji' wake up a bit, go around and see what is happening in the Shia community. Every couple of years someone creates a new tradition. This is getting disgusting. Is this why your Imam martyred in Karbala for? For his Shia to walk around like clowns?

When you type Shia on Google images, first picture you see is blood and tatbir and disgusting images. Stop defending blindly. Think a little bit before defending something just because you are used to it.

 

Tatbir:

156923141.jpg

ap132.jpg

 

Zanjeer:

604a6eafb64e48a0b633604350be9c5d_0.jpg

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Tatyeen (comes from the word mud & clay in Arabic):

Metrography_Ashura_Iraq_37.jpg

Metrography_Ashura_Iran_17.jpg

131292187_11n.jpg

 

Walking on coal:

1294_1200855508.jpg

image.jpg

 

Chains:

199923_shia_muslims_flagellate_themselve

187842696.jpg

 

AND FINALLY!!! The Dog March (human beings with a full mind, crawling and barking like dogs to the Shrine):

5185s901.jpg

1533850_10151846233991795_1346271623_n.j

B7b_Pyo_ZCMAABfd_M.jpg

 

Written on his shirt in Arabic "I am Rukayyas Dog"

B3t_7_KRCEAAd_E5d.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1533850_10151846233991795_1346271623_n.j

B7b_Pyo_ZCMAABfd_M.jpg

 

Written on his shirt in Arabic "I am Rukayyas Dog"

 

I get everything else, but what the hell are these two? playing around in dirt? acting like dogs? what does this achieve? how is acting like a dog mourning?

Edited by Haji 2003
Deleted over duplication.
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How can I forget to add this video and you know whats more crazy, people walking around normally as if this has become normal.

 


This dude chained and barking in a Latmiya

 

This crazy Iranian Latmiya, they are saying in Arabic "I am Rukayyas dog" and watch the crowds cheer and get involved in the Latmiya

Edited by John Al-Ameli
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Yes you should ask some of our Maraji that are disconnected from this world, and only know the surrounding of their houses, or the Mosque they visit, with a small Shia community they meet.

Honestly, why do they not address these issues? God riddance these videos are pathetic. I wish all the maraji's would condemn these pathetic acts - getting in touch with them is just about impossible. I remember sending them a question  two months back - still waiting for a reply. 

 

If anything, I sure as hell pray that none of my inlaws ever come across these videos 

 

 

btw, never seen this happen in Pakistan - is this an Iranian/Arab thing to do?

Edited by apofomysback
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Honestly, why do they not address these issues? God riddance these videos are pathetic. I wish all the maraji's would condemn these pathetic acts - getting in touch with them is just about impossible. I remember sending them a question  two months back - still waiting for a reply. 

 

If anything, I sure as hell pray that none of my inlaws ever come across these videos 

 

 

btw, never seen this happen in Pakistan - is this an Iranian/Arab thing to do?

Who cares about Jurisprudence. A Marja isnt only here to give us jurisprudence. They are supposed to be in touch with society.

 

Its not Arabic no. Barking like dogs started in Iran around 10 years ago.

 

In Pakistan you have worse, there are people who eat the feces of a horse (acting as its Imam Husseins horse Zuljannah).

Look at this in Kuwait, what a mockery

 

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Who cares about Jurisprudence. A Marja isnt only here to give us jurisprudence. They are supposed to be in touch with society.

 

Its not Arabic no. Barking like dogs started in Iran around 10 years ago.

 

In Pakistan you have worse, there are people who eat the feces of a horse (acting as its Imam Husseins horse Zuljannah).

I wonder what the barking brings to them, or what the significance of acting like dogs is in their eyes :/ i don't find any of the marja being too in touch with society - one reason why i dont follow any of them, because i fail to see them speaking over things that need more attention these days. 

 

I am yet to see people eating horse feces in Pakistan - yes I know they consider the horse to be Zuljanah, but I've never seen that happening :/

 

PS: What on Earth is that in Kuwait? A lion? First time I'm hearing this - and the reenactment is just so wrong..the person making the video is actually laughing his head off..

Edited by apofomysback
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I wonder what the barking brings to them, or what the significance of acting like dogs is in their eyes :/ i don't find any of the marja being too in touch with society - one reason why i dont follow any of them, because i fail to see them speaking over things that need more attention these days. 

Not all Maraji are like that. You need to search at the correct place. Not all Maraji are locked up behind closed doors.

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These practices only reflect the state of these societies and cultures.  If they were any other religion, they would be doing other things I'm sure.

 

I've heard many times that in the state of intense grief and mourning, people can do bold, spontaneous, outlandish, and crazy things.  But is that really the case here?  It seems it has become a routine thing now, which they wind themselves up to do every year.  Is the religion more important than the ritual or the ritual more important than the religion?  I can ask those questions on things that aren't mandated in this religion. 

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Mourning is recommended but actions like tatbir are nothing but just non sense ;but we are not willing to accept our miss belief .

Ayatollah Khomeini forbade it and hence Hizbullah does not allow the members to perform this violent action. Instead, Khomeini and Khamenei encourage the members to donate their bloods.

 

We need to stop this by ourselves .I have noticed that most people ,due to lack of their knowledge , do this because they think its compulsory and it is sin to say tatbir wrong  .Its our responsibility to spread the message and education .

If some one's disagreeing , please read out the fatwas of Ali Khameini and Ayatollah Khomeini instead of arguing.

 

Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran has stated that Tatbir is Haram (forbidden). He says

 

It is an incorrect action which some people perform – taking a blade in one’s hand and hitting themselves on the head with it spilling their blood. What do they do this for? How is this action considered mourning? Of course, hitting one’s head with their hands is a form of mourning. You have seen over and over again, a person who has had something bad happen to them, hit themselves on their head and chest. This is a normal sign of mourning. But, have you ever seen a person who has had something bad happen to their most loved (ones) hit themselves on the head with a sword until blood flows down? How is this action considered mourning?

 

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On 10/26/2015 at 9:08 AM, Chaotic Muslem said:

No give up.

These practices are insults to imams and their families

Dogs are najes, why to attribute such najasa to pure people like ahlulbayt.

Those who are promoting these names practices are najes themselves. Every true believer will not see but the insult in such deed.

I read a QA from Ayatillah Haeri asking him about these bizarre practices going in Iraq and he said that those behind them are shady characters.

There are many shady movements in Iraq, some were exposed like sarkhi and qabanji and yamani but others can just sweep around and infiltrate.

Give up as in give up trying to wake up a person pretending to be asleep, or has intentionally knocked himself/herself out.

Problem is that people get blinded by scholars and their abilities based on number of years they spent in hawzah rather than how well they understood it, how they put their gain of knowledge into practice and how well they can safeguard it.

They are doing to Shia islam what they did to Christianity. Seperated their scholars from state and society, soon seperated their churches from state, after that it was free for all to jab them into submission, then put whatever nonsense in their faith.

Someone needs to translate this video for the non farsi speakers by Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi on these acts:

http://ansarclip.ir/07/0701/6644-1394814

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There is no single universal marja authority for shias, hence unless everyone of them issues a fatwa and clamps down, it will go on as usual. People participating in these rituals may very well be few in number but a large segment of shias approve of it. It is a sensitive issue and almost even reactionary given certain shias feel their centuries old traditions of expressing grief are under attack.

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Sheikh Yasser Awde is an amazing guy. Although you might not agree on everything 100% but his main point is always correct. And we need a lot like him in our Islamic world. But the problem, is many people are attacking him ONLY because they arent used to such talks, people want to stay used to traditional beliefs because they are afraid of change. Because they lived 30 years hearing that Aba Fadl l Abbas killed 200 people with one hit, for you to tell them its not true, they will attack you.

 

Unfortunately, this is whats happening as well in our Shia world, we talk too much about Sunnis and how they are deviating to Takfirism, but there are big groups that have become like that as well "Oh you dont do Tatbir, you are Kafir" or "You dont love Ahlul Bayt". "Oh you dont beleive Imam Ali was flying in the Sky? You arent Shia you dont have faith in Imam Ali". Such atrocities cant be tolerated anymore. Unfortunately, we always blame Wahhabis, and USA, and israel. But no, I believe we should blame the Maraji that have decided to stay quite in the middle of the rumble.

The problem is that we actually need a fatwa or hukm to refrain from such practices...and even the hukm we have gets ignored.But alhamdulillah it's not the majority of shias.

The Shia problem of these days is many are very dependant on Maraji that they dont use their brains anymore.

There is no single universal marja authority for shias, hence unless everyone of them issues a fatwa and clamps down, it will go on as usual. People participating in these rituals may very well be few in number but a large segment of shias approve of it. It is a sensitive issue and almost even reactionary given certain shias feel their centuries old traditions of expressing grief are under attack.

Religion is about faith, not tradition and customs.

 

What ruined Islam is customs and traditions that each nation wants to follow and integrate it into Islam.

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Sheikh Yasser Awde is an amazing guy. Although you might not agree on everything 100% but his main point is always correct. And we need a lot like him in our Islamic world. But the problem, is many people are attacking him ONLY because they arent used to such talks, people want to stay used to traditional beliefs because they are afraid of change. Because they lived 30 years hearing that Aba Fadl l Abbas killed 200 people with one hit, for you to tell them its not true, they will attack you.

 

Unfortunately, this is whats happening as well in our Shia world, we talk too much about Sunnis and how they are deviating to Takfirism, but there are big groups that have become like that as well "Oh you dont do Tatbir, you are Kafir" or "You dont love Ahlul Bayt". "Oh you dont beleive Imam Ali was flying in the Sky? You arent Shia you dont have faith in Imam Ali". Such atrocities cant be tolerated anymore. Unfortunately, we always blame Wahhabis, and USA, and israel. But no, I believe we should blame the Maraji that have decided to stay quite in the middle of the rumble.

The Shia problem of these days is many are very dependant on Maraji that they dont use their brains anymore.

Religion is about faith, not tradition and customs.

 

What ruined Islam is customs and traditions that each nation wants to follow and integrate it into Islam.

Like it or not for most of history traditions and customs have been a part of religious expression. It is easy to say things should be so and so, we all want peace in the world, there would have to be profound changes elsewhere before we see any meaningful progress on the tatbir front.

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Hayderium,Qalandrum, Mustam

Banda-e-Murtuza Ali Hastum

Peshwa-e-Tamaam Rindan Num

Kay Sagae kuo-e-Sher-e-Yazdan Num

 

Translation:

I am Haideri (a follower of Haider, aka Ali ibn Abi Talib), I am a Qalandar and I am intoxicated (with inspiration).

I am a servant of Ali Murtaza (aka Ali ibn Abi Talib)

I am leader of all saints

Because I am a dog of the lane of "Allah's Lion" (referring to Maula Ali Murtaza)

 

-- Bu-Ali Shah Qalandar

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Dear brothers and sisters:

 

Two important points while you all get emotionally riled up for FOR and AGAINST this:

 

1. Please STOP defaming Maraje' in the backdrop of all this. You can not defame Muslim Ibn Aqeel because 18,000 who pledged ran away in Kufa. Limit your criticism to the perpetrators of the practices and not to those Marajae' who are not listend to on these occasions

2. None of these practices are new. They have been prevalent all across and all are century old

3. Not justifying, but since the Aza' of Imam Hussain is open ended with few Shari' guidelines, everybody commemorates in his or her own way. I personally like organized gatherings as they give me an outlet to express my grief. Others do differently.

4. Rather than blaming Marajae', why don't we stop these people ourselves whenever we see them doing such things? Amr bil Maroof and Nahi anil Munkar is wajib on us too afterall.

5. Lastly posting these pictures here DO NOT help except that you have provided another aggregated trove to an enemy of Ahlulbayt to ridicule all Shia for the actions of a few thousand emotionally ignorant and possibly a few showoffs

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Hayderium,Qalandrum, Mustam

Banda-e-Murtuza Ali Hastum

Peshwa-e-Tamaam Rindan Num

Kay Sagae kuo-e-Sher-e-Yazdan Num

Translation:

I am Haideri (a follower of Haider, aka Ali ibn Abi Talib), I am a Qalandar and I am intoxicated (with inspiration).

I am a servant of Ali Murtaza (aka Ali ibn Abi Talib)

I am leader of all saints

Because I am a dog of the lane of "Allah's Lion" (referring to Maula Ali Murtaza)

-- Bu-Ali Shah Qalandar

Bu ali shah qalnder need to be educated.

Dogs are najes .ahlulbayt are pure and no najasa should be associated with them.

These practices are not aza. They are rubbish and offensive.

If you want to serve Ali, wear your war cloths and protect those in danger.

Ali is not in need of fools. Ali is in need of wise men.

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Dog is a metaphor for loyalty and willing to protect the Master.

Allah created you with a brain, not to crawl like dogs.

Loyalty to Ahlul Bayt is doing what they did, and spreading their message.

Not making the true Muslim Muhammadi religion, the laughingstock of the century.

Edited by John Al-Ameli
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Bu ali shah qalnder need to be educated.

Dogs are najes .ahlulbayt are pure and no najasa should be associated with them.

These practices are not aza. They are rubbish and offensive.

If you want to serve Ali, wear your war cloths and protect those in danger.

Ali is not in need of fools. Ali is in need of wise men.

Lets not take things like that. Its not like if these people were crawling and purring like cats it would have been any better.

It is not about Najasa. It is about an obscene action that has nothing to do with Islam, Shia, and Ahlul Bayt.

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Allah created you with a brain, not to crawl like dogs.

I think if we acted more like dogs loyal to their masters (God, the Messenger, and his family) we would all have better minds.

Not in Islam

Loyalty isn't measured by dog's behavior.

Ahlulbayt didn't say be like our dogs.

No, imam Hussain is the father of the free not the father of the dogs.

To be loyal to be them you need first to be nobel so they may accept you as one of their followers. You can't add yourself to their follower list just by whims.

Bravery and courage isn't measured by a lion's behaviour, yet lion of God is a metaphor for that for Imam Ali. I don't know why people have to be so literal.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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