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In the Name of God بسم الله

Bizarre Ashoura Ritual Infiltrations

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1. Your lack of understanding the recommendations are the problem, throwing around hadith like the neighborhood google champion is not impressive. When you cry out loud, you inspire others to mourn an

Bismehe Ta3ala, Assalam Alikum. All I know is when Imam says hal min nassarin yinsouruna, he wasn't referring to these practices. There is jihad opened in 3raq, Lebanon, Syria, and Yemen they can go

Bismeh Ta3ala, Assalam Alikum Imam Hussayn gave his sons, his life for the sake of our pure religion. His wives, daughters and Sayyida Zaynab became prisoners of war. How does anyone interpret the a

^ Same as the dog of Ashab e Kahaf in Quran who was counted as part of the group of the people of Allah swt as Allah swt says he was the 5th or the 6th among them and so on.

 

Like I mentioned above, you can not regulate either the practices of Aza or the thoughts around this.

 

There is this story, real or not, that a king approached an Arif while he was sitting under a tree and a dog was sitting next ot him. The king mocked the arif telling him that the two were alike. Arif replied that if I obey my lord, I'm better than this dog, and if this dog is more obedient to his lord, then it is better than him. Attributing one as a dog for Imam Hussain has deeper meanings than purely fiqh side of it.  

Oh my God.

 

al Ajal al Ajal ya Mawlay ya Sahiba al Zaman!

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^ Same as the dog of Ashab e Kahaf in Quran who was counted as part of the group of the people of Allah swt as Allah swt says he was the 5th or the 6th among them and so on.

 

Like I mentioned above, you can not regulate either the practices of Aza or the thoughts around this.

 

There is this story, real or not, that a king approached an Arif while he was sitting under a tree and a dog was sitting next ot him. The king mocked the arif telling him that the two were alike. Arif replied that if I obey my lord, I'm better than this dog, and if this dog is more obedient to his lord, then it is better than him. Attributing one as a dog for Imam Hussain has deeper meanings than purely fiqh side of it.  

 

In fact, I don't think I'm even good enough to be even called a dog of Imam Hussain [as].

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That video of the lion makes me 100% certain that these individuals are being paid by the enemies of Islam. Even the most mentally retarded individual realises that these sorts of practises are only there to make fun of the Shias, to turn Muslims against each other so that they can continue spreading their batil around the world. 

 

 

I actually want to see a pro-tatbir person give a reason for their view other than "a marja allows it" or "it's a sign of my dedication to Imam Hussain". How about you go and tell your friends and colleagues about the Hussaini movement rather than wasting your time, blood and Imam Hussain's message with a few ostentation driven cuts to the head.

 

 

If you had paid attention during Ziarat Ashura, you would have though about the lines:

 

اللَّهُمَّ اجْعَلْ مَحْيَايَ مَحْيَا مُحَمَّدٍ وَ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ مَمَاتِي مَمَاتَ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ

 

O my Allah, bring me to life again, after death, in the place Muhammad and his Aal (children) are dwelling, and make me depart from this world like Muhammad and his Aal (children) had left,

 

and implemented the message of Imam Hussain in your daily life, spreading his teachings to the world.

Edited by silasun
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I actually want to see a pro-tatbir person give a reason for their view other than "a marja allows it" or "it's a sign of my dedication to Imam Hussain". How about you go and tell your friends and colleagues about the Hussaini movement rather than wasting your time, blood and Imam Hussain's message with a few ostentation driven cuts to the head.

 

His Eminence's [as] happiness is our happiness. His [as] pain is our pain. It is reported that Imam [as] had over 900 wounds. The few scratches that these blood-letters manage on their head/back give them a tiny sense of that pain, resulting in having another type of connection, other than the one of spiritual and emotional.

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In the village of my Aunt (khala) in Pakistan,

 

There is a group of so called shias who does all this weird stuff. One day they were having their imitating dog session and a child came(4 years old girl) in the hall. She screamed with fear and then lost her senses. she died the same night with high fever. 


His Eminence's [as] happiness is our happiness. His [as] pain is our pain. It is reported that Imam [as] had over 900 wounds. The few scratches that these blood-letters manage on their head/back give them a tiny sense of that pain, resulting in having another type of connection, other than the one of spiritual and emotional.

 

How about staying as pure and brave as he lived. How about defending the religion of Prophet with everything you have? How about living your whole life as true slave of God until the Almighty calls you for meeting.

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That video of the lion makes me 100% certain that these individuals are being paid by the enemies of Islam. Even the most mentally retarded individual realises that these sorts of practises are only there to make fun of the Shias, to turn Muslims against each other so that they can continue spreading their batil around the world.

Actually that video was taken in the primary Husayniya of a big Shia Marja in Kuwait, unfortunately.

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How about staying as pure and brave as he lived. How about defending the religion of Prophet with everything you have? How about living your whole life as true slave of God until the Almighty calls you for meeting.

 

How about doing what you said, and doing blood-letting. Since when does blood-letting stop one from doing what you prescribed.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting to feel some of the pain of our Master [as]. Just like our Masters after him [as] who requested to be put on the ground when near their death, to feel what he [imam Hussain as] felt when lying on the plains of Karbala.

Edited by StayingHalal
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How about doing what you said, and doing blood-letting. Since when does blood-letting stop one from doing what you prescribed.

Personally, I think revelations always ended up instead of being purely followed with nothing associated in that, leaders and innovators were followed instead. This includes attributing to revelation what goes against reason till the revelation is totally distorted. This happened every time that no books remain but Quran. Quran is safeguarded, but hadiths are not. Following something from hadiths that goes against reason or Quran is bad enough, but following innovations that don't have any hadith fabricated or not, to support, is another thing all together.

 

Allah [swt] always tests his Wilayah if people will purely follow him, his face (his chosen ones), his light brought down, and reason, or mix with that ignorance and judgement of ignorance. To safeguard the message, he emphasizes not to associate in following his revelation anyone else, but rather follow God and those he appoints.

 

It's a tragedy that everytime Allah [swt] organized a system which would get society close to God if they tried to understand the wisdom behind and followed it with reflection, instead, mixed it with innovations and extremism in the religion, both in beliefs and in practice.

 

When I read Quran, I see the need to stick to the Mohammad's way and not follow ways other then his way. To stick to Ahlulbayt and hold on to God. 

 

There is no point in establishing a code, rituals, etc, if we are allowed to follow our own rituals our own code with it. Rather it's to be purely followed without the nafs or any other nafs obedience, but rather obedience purely for God and his Messenger and those who possess authority from the nation of the Messenger.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=us02oh87KOM

Is it too much to be tasteful? Imam is Emir son of Emir and grandson of the master of creation.

They were nobelmen and very tasteful in their approach to people. Is it too much to pay just a little attention to our representation of our love to them?

If you were going for an emir, will you do these dirt/blood/ najasa body blood warping thing?

These pagan acts are not part of Islam and if they don't belong to Islam then certainly they are not related to ahlulbayt.

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Actually that video was taken in the primary Husayniya of a big Shia Marja in Kuwait, unfortunately.

 

If that is true (and I know who the person you are referring to is) then it sums up the reality of this cult. They are put into the seat of Imam Hussain's mourners by the enemies of Islam in order to show the world who the shias are.

 

Here is something very insightful from Ayatollah Araki, talking about the Shirazis:

 

“The circle’s antics on special Shia occasions work to make the highly respected rituals of the religion seem ridiculous in the eyes of the non-Muslims; for example, they walk bare-footed, walking across a field of thorns or fire; such practices have nothing to do with Husseini (as) rituals, but are set to deviate all those who would seek Shiism as the true version of Islam,” he said

 

I pray that there comes a day when a BBC News headline is "500,000 British Muslims break record of most blood donated in one day to commemorate Muhammed's grandson"- instead we have these fools who do nothing other than make themselves -and Imam Hussain's message- completely impure.

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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=us02oh87KOM

Is it too much to be tasteful? Imam is Emir son of Emir and grandson of the master of creation.

They were nobelmen and very tasteful in their approach to people. Is it too much to pay just a little attention to our representation of our love to them?

If you were going for an emir, will you do these dirt/blood/ najasa body blood warping thing?

These pagan acts are not part of Islam and if they don't belong to Islam then certainly they are not related to ahlulbayt.

 

Allah  knows people want to follow their nafs and innovations in religion or cling to leaders that innovate in religion and will sometimes innovate things that go against reason. To solve this issue and to avoid innovations that will go against reason in religion, Allah [swt] enjoined to follow what God enjoins, and not other then that. The hadiths say the same thing and prohibit following innovations in religion and invented opinions in religion. 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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I think it is pointless arguing over this, as we do every year. The fact remains, blood-letting isn't going anywhere. You can either respect and understand another's method of commemorating Ashura, or you can carry on wasting time arguing about it. Funny thing is, I have never seen threads here of pro-blood-letters coming here and bashing the non-blood-letters. It's always the other way around.

 

I'll take a leave from this discussion but with this narration:

 

Imam Sadiq [as] said "Everything is unrestricted until a prohibition is given on it."

 

So until you guys don't come forth with an explicit prohibition in blood-letting, then I think you're wasting time arguing. The usual argument of "ruining Islam's image" is getting real old now.

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Islam is about dignity...calling oneself a dog is far from having dignity imho.

Allah has honored the human above all animal. The right thing to do I to thank Allah for such gift and honor by abstaining from animal behaviors.

If you don't thank Allah then certainly you did not get a letter from imam Hussain message.

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Allah  knows people want to follow their nafs and innovations in religion or cling to leaders that innovate in religion and will sometimes innovate things that go against reason. To solve this issue and to avoid innovations that will go against reason in religion, Allah [swt] enjoined to follow what God enjoins, and not other then that. The hadiths say the same thing and prohibit following innovations in religion and invented opinions in religion. 

 

We know that our halal and haraam lists are categorised by 3 actions:

 

A. You have instruction from the Masoom [as] and Quran,

B. You see the Masoom [as] performing such action,

C. You perform an action in front of the Masoom [as] and learn from their reaction.

 

Point C is interesting and tells me there is room for varying methods, which can be based on one's level of marifah, one's love, one's intellect, etc.

Edited by StayingHalal
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I try not to follow any innovations in religion, because I trust the way of the Messenger and Ahlulbayt, because I trust God knows and we don't know. I don't need to follow innovators innovation to feel closer to God. I also am not going to decide the people of the straight path that God has favoured and wants us to cling to. Some people, they hardly feel anything from the obligations that God enjoined but will feel everything from innovations in the religion. This itself is a sign a dark force is working in some of these people.

 

Innovations in religion have been prohibited in hadiths and Quran. I use to wonder why they lead to the fire, but now I know because the intention is shirk in Wilayah of Allah with that of innovators, and mixing the path of reason with that of ignorance.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

There is adab, akhlaq, and asking permission from our Imams to permit us to enter the shrine. Instead of saying Assalamu 3lika ya Aba 3bd'Allah al Hussayn, they are barking? Wouldn't the mo2minean love to have the Imam respond back with wa Alikum Assalam or do they want to fetch a bone?

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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Dear brothers and sisters -

 

Like someone mentions above, if we truly love Ahlulbayt, then every action we perform, we should judge agsinst the hadith that they want us to be their adoration and not their ridicule.

 

Once you encounter one such person, please do stop this person with nice words and hadith of masoomeen. But posting their silly actions here gives a fodder to other idiots who thrive in ridiculing Shia.

 

Yes, there are more than a couple troubled areas in the world where people are defending the honor of Ahlulbayt through their active presence. Could you imagine what would have happened had these Daesh dogs of hell entered the shrines in Damascus. Instead of doing funny actions for display, show off, and uniqueness, go and be the part of that activism which protects the honor.

 

In the same breath, criticizing Marjaea' for the wrong actions of a few thousands is also injustice which puts those who criticize Marajae' in the same league as those who provide fodder to defame Islam by being dogs.  

Edited by Irfani313
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Dear brothers and sisters -Once you encounter one such person, please do stop this person with nice words and hadith of masoomeen. But posting their silly actions here gives a fodder to other idiots who thrive in ridiculing Shia.

 

There is something called Youtube and Google where anyone around the world can find them and ridicule us. It is better we expose them and disown idiotic actions, so Sunnis can actually see that we are against them.

 

 

 

In the same breath, criticizing Marjaea' for the wrong actions of a few thousands is also injustice which puts those who criticize Marajae' in the same league as those who provide fodder to defame Islam by being dogs.  

Who are we to blame? When these people are barking in public, when these people are rolling around in mud in public, when these people are slicing their heads and backs in public. In such a normal way that even when these people are barking and entering the Shrine, people are passing by normally. It is our Marajis duties to speak against these actions. If not then yes I would criticise them, not because I hate them, but for the passion and eagerness I have towards my faith, and for the loyalty I have to Ahlul Bayt not to allow anyone to ruin there image.

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Salam,

May Allah guide them.

Sometimes I feel maraji just do not want to pass fatawa that might turn some of their followers away from them.

Otherwise they would have made this illegal for a while know. I know in a place like Karbala with 20 milion people things can be hardly regulated but heck, the Lebanese we see in white covered with blood are exclusively from Nabatiye, which is a Hezb area. If Hezb wanted they could outlaw or at least ban this practice forever.

They just don't want to lose some of their popular base.

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Our marjahs need to issue fatwas against this pagan nonsense, these people acting like lions,dogs and eating horse manure are no different than the pagans of Makkah running around the Kaaba naked before Muhammad (s.a.w) started preaching Islam. This is totally an affront to Allah, and inherently destructive! If nothing is done soon, I am going to study at the hawza and do something about this silliness.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar
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Otherwise they would have made this illegal for a while know. I know in a place like Karbala with 20 milion people things can be hardly regulated but heck, the Lebanese we see in white covered with blood are exclusively from Nabatiye, which is a Hezb area. If Hezb wanted they could outlaw or at least ban this practice forever.

They just don't want to lose some of their popular base.

Not really, Nabatieh is more of Amal Movement.

Hezbollah can't force people that aren't in their party to not to do tatbir (or anything that is haram in Islam), but they do awarenesses by their Sheikhs and in Masjids and Husayniyat.

Even Sayed Hassan talks against it.

Edited by John Al-Ameli
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Let's campaign against muta since the Sunnis see that as prostitution. Let's also campaign against taqiyya since they see that as cowardice and hypocrisy. Let's campaign against sending la'nah since we should respect figures of other religions. Crying is bid'ah. Chest beating is bid'ah. Doing ziyarah and praying next to the burial places is shirk. Intercession is shirk. Etc etc

Let's just appease the Sunnis that hate our guts but create deeper discord and disunity amongst other shia brothers/sisters because we cannot agree to disagree. Threads like these should be banned because nothing good comes out of it. Just fitna. Every damn year it's the repeat posts and arguments, you're this that. More bashing and disunity. Let Imam Hussain (as) deal with how people mourn him. Who are we to set a limit.

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Let's campaign against muta since the Sunnis see that as prostitution. Let's also campaign against taqiyya since they see that as cowardice and hypocrisy. Let's campaign against sending la'nah since we should respect figures of other religions. Crying is bid'ah. Chest beating is bid'ah. Doing ziyarah and praying next to the burial places is shirk. Intercession is shirk. Etc etc

Let's just appease the Sunnis that hate our guts but create deeper discord and disunity amongst other shia brothers/sisters because we cannot agree to disagree. Threads like these should be banned because nothing good comes out of it. Just fitna. Every damn year it's the repeat posts and arguments, you're this that. More bashing and disunity. Let Imam Hussain (as) deal with how people mourn him. Who are we to set a limit.

 

Let's campaign against muta since the Sunnis see that as prostitution. Let's also campaign against taqiyya since they see that as cowardice and hypocrisy. Let's campaign against sending la'nah since we should respect figures of other religions. Crying is bid'ah. Chest beating is bid'ah. Doing ziyarah and praying next to the burial places is shirk. Intercession is shirk. Etc etc

Let's just appease the Sunnis that hate our guts but create deeper discord and disunity amongst other shia brothers/sisters because we cannot agree to disagree. Threads like these should be banned because nothing good comes out of it. Just fitna. Every damn year it's the repeat posts and arguments, you're this that. More bashing and disunity. Let Imam Hussain (as) deal with how people mourn him. Who are we to set a limit.

 

Just to clarify, you support being chained , walking on all 4s and howling and barking like a dog.

And you cannot see anything wrong with that.

Edited by A true Sunni
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Just to clarify, you support being chained , walking on all 4s and howling and barking like a dog.

And you cannot see anything wrong with that.

My opinion doesn't have any weight. Who cares what i think. All i know, is to be united we need to tolerate. Unity isn't when one acts and behaves in accordance to another. Unity is when one respects the other and understands that they have come to a different determination. At the end of the day, whatever they're doing, they're doing it out of their love for someone. So let that someone judge them. Why should i intervene and set a limit. And i definitely shouldn't come in an online forum bashing them. Good luck to them, good luck to me. But interms of unity, no chance would i put Sunni unity infront of unity with my fellow Shia, where we have such common ground. We're all mohib-e-ahle bayt (as) so that's more than good enough for me to call you brother/sister in faith.

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Let's campaign against muta since the Sunnis see that as prostitution.

Temporary Marriage is permissible in Islam, stated in the Quran, and there are clear Hadith about it.

Are you going to be lame? If yes, then I urge you at least not to argue with ways that make you look you don't know what you're talking about.

 

Let's just appease the Sunnis that hate our guts but create deeper discord and disunity amongst other shia brothers/sisters because we cannot agree to disagree.

 

 

Maybe you don't realise but its not about Sunnis. Its about what Islam is and whats not Islam. Its about following teachings of Ahlul Bayt, and following traditions of non-maasoumeen.

Edited by John Al-Ameli
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WTH, the dog thing. What even is that. At least once the sunnis claim of bidah is true.

Sorry...I hesitate to even get in here again because I have admitted to my own cultural baggage and stubbornness, but I saw a video of Shias that none of you have posted ( and I won't) that I almost feel Catholics might have to take responsibility for because of mass media....crawling up to a holy place from a far place on your tummy or knees and stopping intermittently to raise up and scream and cry. You should see some basilicas during Holy Week.

The part where they were raising up and choking themselves with the dog chains, though,...that one's all yours, even we don't do that.

SG has never seen people cut themselves, only has heard of it. The other strange stuff....he says some of this looks like a lot of ego. He also wonders who puts all this out there because he's only seen the activity like Baradar put up.

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