[Closed/Review]Shias - Brace Yourselves

[guest050817]

Salamunalaykum,

 

May Allah swt have mercy on us, and condolences on this very sad day of ashura.

 

Here in the UK, the newspapers are about to however show pictures of shia men and women - and children , and even babies, covered with blood, using sometimes 12 pronged chained blades, swords, knives, to inflict a plethora of cuts on themselves. I've already braced myself for this - and you can't blame newspapers for 'propaganda' because it's shias doing this act!

 

It's startling how many more people seem to be in support of this act than i originally thought.

 

To those who promote and support it i ask you, when we do our marches here in the UK, putting on our image of intellectuals spreading a 'universal message' of imam hussain a.s, and catching the interest of other curious onlookers.

 

Last year, i had the chance to explain to a curious by stander what our march was about, knowing full well they may go home and google 'ashura' and 'imam hussain', and the grizzly images they would find, of child abuse, self mutilation, blood, and pure carnage.

 

I ask you, when you give them your wonderful explanations of imam hussain a.s's sacrifice while on the juloos marches, and they then go home and do a google search out of a pure curiosity and interest,

 

and then they happen to sea images like :

 

 

and

 

 

 

 

 

 

let me not even mention like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I ask you. How many more are you willing to turn away from the noble sacrifice of Hussain a.s and his message?

 

They spilt their blood, and it is as if more of their blood is being split due to the murder of not their blessed bodies and lives, but even their message is being attacked.

 

 

If i hated shias, and wanted to ruin them and anihilate them, the one thing i would do as a propaganda think-tank would be to distribute clean shiny swords, flails, knives to a minority of shia's themselves, and encourage them to take part in these acts, and do the act of tarnishing shi'ism themselves.

 

And, it's no surprise, such a thing has already been done by agents.

 

 

 

Can i just add, i am not asking you to withdraw a pious, holy and encouragable act because 'sunni's and others don't get it'. I am wholeheartedly saying this act ruins our image because it is an act which initself is irrational, erratic, unislamic, and worth discouraging.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Tawheed313

[Repentant]

People are idiots. They give a bad name for Islam. They commit bidah (one thing to cry and strike your chest out of sadness, this is a whole new level). Its dangerous (risk of infections and bleeding). Enough margae ruled against it.

 

I think countries should ban the act as well and make it a crime. If people are caught doing it, punish them with either a large free or some jail time.

 

If you want to do it as an adult, whatever. But why drag infants and children into it? This is probably haraam. You are intentionally harming a child.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Repentant

[Ibn Al-Ja'abi]

bismih ta'ala

assalamu alaykum

adham Allah ujurakum

 

Please brother for tonight have some shame and leave some aimless discussions. You are not a Marj'a and no one is under your taqleed, if an individual follows a Marj'a who allows him to do tatbir, zanjir, zanjeel, or whatever and he does this, then it is between him, his marj'a, Allah, and Abi Abdillah. And if someone chooses not to or follows a Marj'a who forbids these actions, then again it is between him, his marj'a, Allah, and Abi Abdillah. Khalas, there are very important A'mal for tonight and tomorrow on the day of Ashura, I'd recommend that our honourable brothers and sisters preform them and remember Imam Hussain, and leave these discussions for the Ulama.

 

wa assalam

[Tonks]

bismih ta'ala

assalamu alaykum

adham Allah ujurakum

 

Please brother for tonight have some shame and leave some aimless discussions. You are not a Marj'a and no one is under your taqleed, if an individual follows a Marj'a who allows him to do tatbir, zanjir, zanjeel, or whatever and he does this, then it is between him, his marj'a, Allah, and Abi Abdillah. And if someone chooses not to or follows a Marj'a who forbids these actions, then again it is between him, his marj'a, Allah, and Abi Abdillah. Khalas, there are very important A'mal for tonight and tomorrow on the day of Ashura, I'd recommend that our honourable brothers and sisters preform them and remember Imam Hussain, and leave these discussions for the Ulama.

 

wa assalam

 

Wa alaykum salaam.

 

I'm sorry but this is not an "aimless discussion". Islam is not only about self purification. There is the aspect of amr bil maruf and nahi anil munkar. Imam Hussain (a.s) did not fight for himself only, his goal was to reform the ummah.

 

These actions take people further away from the Ahlul Bayt. I am sure many of you from personal experience had to defend yourselves from these people who ruin the image of the Ahlul Bayt. It is a huge block that keeps people away from the path of the Ahlul Bayt and it needs to be destroyed.

 

It is very unfortunate that we have to speak about tatbir on such a holy day but until we have people who publicly ruin the image of the Ahlul Bayt we must do so. Most people will not see the message of Imam Hussain (a.s) beyond the bloody images.

[Sumerian]

They are quite aimless imo seeing as the ulama themselves disagree over this issue. Obviously being a controversial Fiqh issue, those who aren't experts or have never read a proper book in Fiqh should stay away from discussing things they do not know.

Please ponder on the following hadiths:

٢. عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى بْنِ عُبَيْدٍ ، عَنْ يُونُسَ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمنِ ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمنِ بْنِ الْحَجَّاجِ ، قَالَ : قَالَ لِي أَبُو عَبْدِ اللهِ عليه‌السلام : « إِيَّاكَ وَخَصْلَتَيْنِ ؛ فَفِيهِمَا هَلَكَ مَنْ هَلَكَ : إِيَّاكَ أَنْ تُفْتِيَ النَّاسَ بِرَأْيِكَ ، أَوْ تَدِينَ بِمَا لَاتَعْلَمُ ».

2- Alī b. Ibrāhīm, from Muḥammad b.`Īsa b. ‘Ubayd, from Yūnus b. ‘Abd al-Raḥmān, from ‘Abd al-Raḥmān b. al-Ḥajjāj, said: Abū ‘Abd Allāh (عليه السلام) said to me: "Beware of two characteristic; for in them has been perished, whom has been perished: beware that you issue a Fatwā (Islamic verdict) with your opinion (ra`y), or that you profess (believe) in what you do not know".[1].

١٢. عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ ، عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ ، قَالَ : قُلْتُ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اللهِ عليه‌السلام : مَا حَقُّ اللهِ عَلى خَلْقِهِ؟ فَقَالَ : « أَنْ يَقُولُوا مَا يَعْلَمُونَ ، وَيَكُفُّوا عَمَّا لَايَعْلَمُونَ ، فَإِذَا فَعَلُوا ذلِكَ فَقَدْ أَدَّوْا إِلَى اللهِ حَقَّهُ ».

12- Alī b. Ibrāhīm, from his father, from Ibn Abī ‘Umayr, from Hāshim b. Sālim, said: I said to Abī ‘Abd Allāh (عليه‌ السلام): "What is the right of Allāh on his creations?". So he [a.s] said: "For them to say what they do know, and desist from what they do not know, and if they did that, then they have rendered unto Allāh His right".[42].

I know brothers, some that are for and some that are against it, and both sides present very good arguments for and against it.

Now, if anyone wants to comment, they should comment based on knowledge and proper understanding of Fiqh. If they want, they can post Fatawa of the Ulama, but please do not discuss something which you have no knowledge of in, especially in a Day like this.

At least give it a rest until after the mourning season is finished.

As for the hadiths, the translation was taken from the following website. The same link provides the source and grading of the hadiths. The website is brother Jaafar al-Shibli's website.

http://www.behindtheorigins.com/2015/06/the-forbiddance-of-answering-without.html?m=1

Edited October 24, 2015 by The Batman

[Guest silasun]

Bismillah

 

Salaamun Alaykum

 

May Allah accept your mourning for Imam Hussain.

 

It should be obvious to anybody that this action destroys the image of Shia Islam. Even if somehow it is proven to be mustahab in and of itself, it has to be abandoned in this current time. It is better according to hadiths for people to wear yellow shoes and eat with their hands, but if I was to be an ambassador for Shia Islam, I would realise that I shouldn't do these things publicly, such that others make fun of me and Shia Islam. This is under the principle of fiqh that a person should not dress in a way that makes them stick out like a sore thumb. As sister Tonks said, Imam Hussain's message was one of amr-bil-maroof and nahi-an-al-munkar. We have to keep his message alive and at this time, tatbir is wholly inappropriate.

 

If we are going to follow his call of hal min nasirin yansuruna, we need to practice amr-bil-maroof. Rather than hitting ourselves with a sword, we can call to the religion by our excellent etiquettes during Ashura through blood donation campaigns, speaking to our classmates about the tragedy, handing out leaflets... the list is endless.

 

bismih ta'ala

assalamu alaykum

adham Allah ujurakum

 

Please brother for tonight have some shame and leave some aimless discussions. You are not a Marj'a and no one is under your taqleed, if an individual follows a Marj'a who allows him to do tatbir, zanjir, zanjeel, or whatever and he does this, then it is between him, his marj'a, Allah, and Abi Abdillah. And if someone chooses not to or follows a Marj'a who forbids these actions, then again it is between him, his marj'a, Allah, and Abi Abdillah. Khalas, there are very important A'mal for tonight and tomorrow on the day of Ashura, I'd recommend that our honourable brothers and sisters preform them and remember Imam Hussain, and leave these discussions for the Ulama.

 

wa assalam

 

Atham Allahu Ajuruna wa Ajurakum inshAllah

 

According to the ahadith, there is no action more important than calling to religion. All these extra prayers, duas, ziarat are completely futile if one does not learn from them the purpose of the Hussaini movement- it was for the purpose of enjoing good and forbidding evil. The marja may have ruled that in and of itself it is permissible, yet anybody who has a basic understanding of the purpose of Imam Hussain's movement should realise that tatbir has no place in the mourning for Imam Hussain and that calling to Islam is a much more important obligation- it is a Wajib Kifai (obligation on all, such that if nobody does it, all have sinned). 

 

Once a person from the tribe of Khath'am came to the Prophet and asked him: "O the Messenger of God! Please inform me about the best [teaching] of Islam."

 

The Prophet: "Believing in God."

Khath'ami: "Then what?"

The Prophet: "Maintaining [good] relations with the relatives."

Khath'ami: "Then what?"

The Prophet: "Bidding the good and forbidding the evil."

Then the Khath'ami asked, "And please also tell me what are the worst deeds in view of Allah?"

The Prophet: "Shirk: associating a person or a thing with Allah."

Khath'ami: "Then what?"

The Prophet: "Severing relations with the relatives."

Khath'ami: "Then what?"

The Prophet: "Promoting evil and forbidding the good."

 

Doing mustahab am'aal is nothing in comparison to something of the magnitude of discussing the effect that tatbir has on amr-bil-maroof and nahi-an-al-munkar- it is completely wrong to try and silence people who wish to debate this issue.

 

 

Wa-salaam

Edited October 24, 2015 by silasun

[Muslimthought97]

I agree as a shia you find people checking yoyr back in the gym to see if you cut yourrself. Self inflicted harm is haram, drugs is haram, alcohol is haram, this does more damage so it should also be haram too.

[Sumerian]

I agree as a shia you find people checking yoyr back in the gym to see if you cut yourrself. Self inflicted harm is haram, drugs is haram, alcohol is haram, this does more damage so it should also be haram too.

As for self-inflicted harm, it is not proven that it's haram (to the fuqaha) in and of itself. The only way it is haram is if:

1) You remove a limb.

2) You cause a disablity to yourself (blindness).

3) Suicide.

Is it dumb to harm your body for no reason? Well yeah. But is it haram? Most scholars might disagree.

[The Green Knight]

I knew this thread was about Tutbir and Azadari before I even clicked it. Its that time of the year again.~

 

Now the tabarra against it will begin. Too bad all the malang types are banned to offer resistance. If only this munazra would take place in real life I would sell popcorn to make millions each year.

[mina]

As for self-inflicted harm, it is not proven that it's haram (to the fuqaha) in and of itself.

The question should be wether it gets haram when turning the act itsself into part of religion and promoting is publicly as that,like in the case of tatbir.

I am sure the answer of maraji' will be different.

We as lovers of the ahlul beit as or their shi'a always want to imitate their sunnah as much as possible and even avoid makruhat let alone innovations but yet when it comes to tatbir another 'logic' comes up...every moharram.

So naturally this is the time to discuss the issue...

[Sumerian]

I am not arguing anything, I was discussing the Fiqh of self-inflicted pain, not the act of tatbir. Forgive me sister if I should have re-worded my comment better.

The comment wasn't discussing tatbir.

Edited October 24, 2015 by The Batman

[mina]

I know brother,I just quoted your sentence because it's commonly used as argument.

Nothing to forgive,may Allah accept your deeds and bless you.

[The Green Knight]

Well, I recently found out that technically I have been wrongly classified as a Magian / fire worshiper all along, since I did sacrilege to fire by walking over it along with so, so many others. I know the act is totally barbaric, should not be mentioned and above all its bad for your projected image but there it is along with tutbir and your failure to contribute positivity and niceties to help your projected image with the help of the absence of your outstandingly pious deeds. Sorry but after all its why you wish to fix the image by removing the 'wrong' stuff since you don't see much happening on the other front of excelling and reaching the lime light in your positive deeds. Perhaps one day, when the deen is revived to its origins by the commendable struggles of the e-scholars and all the plethora of biddahs removed, a Shi'i rijalist apprentice will finally be able to rise to the rank of master and attain the power to fix most things with dua after exercising the pure Ja'fari Islam.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Darth Vader

[Saintly_Jinn23]

Maybe you should try doing something meaningful this Ashura instead of complaining about your fellow Shi'a brethren in a fit of self-righteousness because apparently they aren't doing enough as yourself to appease a bunch of heretics who will kill and persecute them just for breathing, regardless of whether they flagellate themselves or not.

 

I stopped caring what Sunnis and Wahabis think of me a long time ago. Let the people who want to cut themselves cut themselves, nobody has any right to tell them they can't.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Saintly_Jinn23

[Martyrdom]

 

 

I stopped caring what Sunnis and Wahabis think of me a long time ago. Let the people who want to cut themselves cut themselves, nobody has any right to tell them they can't.

Its more like what Allah thinks we are doing to the image of his message. What someone does in his own home is his own personal business as soon as you step outside its a whole different ball game.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Martyrdom

[StrugglingForTheLight]

To be honest, I feel the more we condemn it, the more people incline to do it out of rebellion to our stance.

 

 

[Saintly_Jinn23]

Its more like what Allah thinks we are doing to the image of his message.

 

If you think Sunnis hate us just because people are cutting themselves, you're delusional. None of the fatwas by marja given with the intention of curtailing or marginalizing the practice have done anything to improve our image with Sunnis, because newsflash, Sunnis and Wahabis hate us for a number of reasons, flagellation being one of the least of them.

 

I think Allah is more displeased when we let public opinions of people whose faith or knowledge are lacking shape our own religious expression or let people who mock or ignore the message of Ahlul Bayt (as) tear us apart from one another over our individual expressions of piety, blaming each other instead of those who are by their very nature intolerant of anything different from their lifestyle or religion.

 

 

 

What someone does in his own home is his own personal business as soon as you step outside its a whole different ball game.

 

Most people who do this kind of stuff do it in private areas. Where in the world are Shi'a running into Sunni neighborhoods and doing these things? In most places where Shi'a are a minority, they either abstain from doing it because even if they do believe it is halal, it is generally not regarded by most of the marja to be obligatory, or they perform it in the confines of their religious centers. The only places where Shi'a do this stuff outdoors are in Shi'a majority neighborhoods where nobody will deride or abuse them for doing it or in neighborhoods where non-Shi'a generally don't mind (remember that some of the Sufis cut and pierce themselves too). But does the fact they are doing it in their own neighborhoods or centers stop people from sneaking in with their camera phones, recording their acts and posting them on youtube with captions like "SHI'A RAFIDI YEHUDI SCUM CUTS HIMSELF FOR IMAM! RETURN TO THE SUNNAH OR DIE!" Of course not, because people's problem with Shi'a performance of flagellation has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Shi'a are performing it outside, it has do with the fact they are Shi'a and doing something they don't like.

 

If you think it's haram, that's fine, but understand that there are plenty of marja who believe it is permissible and they and their followers should be respected and we should stick together as Shi'a against our common enemies.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Saintly_Jinn23

[Martyrdom]

The world does not revolve around sunnies and I was talking about people in general. Anyways I think you completely missed my point.

[Sumerian]

Most maraja that allow it don't encourage it in public if it will cause confusion. So I think public opinion is important.

[StrugglingForTheLight]

Most maraja that allow it don't encourage it in public if it will cause confusion. So I think public opinion is important.

Public opinion doesn't matter in reality in my view. I don't care what the public opinion about it is. Personally, even if the whole world accepted, I would condemn it.

[Bakir]

In a moral/ethical sense, I honestly don't mind what anyone wants to do with his/her body (being it mourning for an imam, a saint, or whoever, that changes nothing in my opinion). What worries me is when there are adults encouraging and doing it to kids. Now that is not individual freedom but a crime.

In a political sense, it harms shiaism a lot. And even though there is some sort of dislike towards politics and public opinion, it is extremely important and I'm still waiting to find a person who really doesn't care about what others have to say.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Bakir

[Fink]

Disgusting beyond words. Anyone trying to rationalize these barbaric practices should be condemned in the strongest of ways. The ignorant masses supporting such practices have reaped and will continue to what evil they've sowed.

I swear by Allah these fools are like a sea of sheep, shifting wherever the tide goes.

[Saintly_Jinn23]

Most maraja that allow it don't encourage it in public if it will cause confusion. So I think public opinion is important.

 

Does that mean if one person out of a hundred is confused, Shi'a should refrain from doing something they feel has spiritual benefit for themselves and their friends and family? Should we stop pilgrimage to Karbala because some Sunnis see that as shirk?

 

I'm starting to get the feeling that this all has little to do with Sunni opinion as much as Shi'a feeling ashamed of being associated with others they feel are extreme and using "public opinion" as an excuse to marginalize those elements.

 

Some Sunnis are never going to understand anything we do, especially when they've already convinced themselves of whatever reasons they've imagined up for why we do what we do. We should try to have a little more solidarity and defend each other's rights, even if we don't agree with every way our fellow Shi'a express themselves. It's better than letting people divide us to the point where some Shi'a are prepared to pronounce takfir on other Shi'a for bloodletting even to the point of repeating the same vitriolic statements Wahabi youtube commentators post on the internet.

[mina]

It's not about what sunnis think but rather innovation in a religious issue.

Pilgimage is not an innovation-tatbir is.This is the main point which nobody can deny.

[guest050817]

Maybe you should try doing something meaningful this Ashura instead of complaining about your fellow Shi'a brethren in a fit of self-righteousness because apparently they aren't doing enough as yourself to appease a bunch of heretics who will kill and persecute them just for breathing, regardless of whether they flagellate themselves or not.

 

I stopped caring what Sunnis and Wahabis think of me a long time ago. Let the people who want to cut themselves cut themselves, nobody has any right to tell them they can't.

 

Salamunalaykum,

 

What i have done this ashura of meaning towards the cause of Imam Hussain a.s and ultimately Allah swt i will not divulge. Additionally, my reason to raise this issue was not done out of self-righteousness, personal ego, or anything else. The message of Imam Hussain a.s is far bigger than i or anyone is.

 

I just want to reclarify my target audience. You seem to think that i am appealing to heretics who will punch and beat and kill shia's.

 

The actual audience is:

 

1. Non-muslims, who we educate during these marches, hand out roses and flowers to, and who then go and see grotesque images of child abuse, self mutilation, and uncivil, unhygenic, and inhumane practises.

 

2. There are many moderate sunni's, who have absolutely no intention of hurting or killing anybody, but who are turned off even looking into shi'ism by these acts.

 

3. There are many shia's, many marja's against or give conditions which i firmly believe are met and therefore make tatbir itself impermissible. There are many shia's themselves against this act.

 

4. It is not that tatbir is a beautiful and wonderful act some people simply can't comprehend in their minds. Rather, even those who research tatbir, its origins, look at the fitrah and psychology of a human being, look at the scientific aspect surrounding this, the ethical aspect, the moral aspect, come to the conclusion it is wrong as an act initself - that is why it ruins our image. Not that it is a pure and misunderstood act that people misunderstand, but it is an act which even after one studies rational reasons they can firmly be against it, like many shia's and many shia marja's.

Most maraja that allow it don't encourage it in public if it will cause confusion. So I think public opinion is important.

 

I just want to clarify, i, many marja's, and many shia's are not against tatbir because it is a holy act that may confuse some. Rather, the idea of childrens heads being slit by large daggers and swords, children slashing their backs with several pronged flails/blades, adults brutally slicing themselves, covering themselves in blood, engaging in acts of self-mutilation and gore, are as an act in-itself, something that is grotesque to those who have studied it and understood it.

 

I , many marja's and many shia's know all the arguments, counter arguments, and justifications of this act, and are still against it.

 

If someone decided to take off their clothes and roll on the ground, and that ruined our image, if we declared it impermissible because it ruins our image  , people should not forget that the act itself is irrational, and grotesque, uncivil, and immoral, which is why it ruins our image. They should not be confused in thinking it is a pure, holy, virtuous act that 'people misunderstand and get confused over'.

 

I am not saying these are your own views, i am talking to the general public.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Tawheed313

[shiasoldier786]

Cutting your head open is barbaric, no matter who permits this. Forget sunnis, even I feel repulsed looking at these images.

[guest050817]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRtt83RY0w\

 

Spread the video to friends, family, and everyone you know.

http://www.dailymail...s-grandson.html

Scroll down for comments:

 

 

Edited October 25, 2015 by Tawheed313

[LeftCoastMom]

As an " outsider" I can say the photos of the kids being cut were highly disturbing. I'm used to reading about different religious traditions, so the adults ...not so much. Gotta say I was surprised that some people were wounding themselves to the point that I wondered if medical intervention wouldn't be necessary. Didn't think it got that severe. Saw several videos.

I think a lot of Westerners don't know enough about Islam to associate this practice with it unless they witness it in person. Somehow I doubt a lot of people in Western countries are cutting their kids or going to extremes. That would run afoul of some child protection laws.

One person commented (since the captions were not in English) : "Is this Hindu or something? " Bet if I showed a video of it to my neighbors not a soul would know what it was or who was doing it without explanation.

The "bad image" of Islam to a lot of Westerners is planes flying into buildings. Not something you can lay at the feet of the Shia, although a lot of Westerners wouldn't know that, either. However, I'm betting even folks who are okay with the practice probably wouldn't want anyone introduced to the religion this way or have that be a first impression.

Still curious, since there seems to be a major debate between your own scholars, about where you think this practice came from or how it originated.

That said, I just have an issue with outside people telling inside people how to do their version of a faith. Not sure a section of the Sunnis don't think of the entire tradition of the Shia as a heresy. Nothing you do is going to be okay with them.

This has become one of my kids' favorite memes of late in regards to their own religious/cultural practices:

[mina]

Not sure a section of the Sunnis don't think of the entire tradition of the Shia as a heresy. Nothing you do is going to be okay with them.

Again,it's not about what others think mainly . It's about the fact that it is an innovation in the religion.

It makes no sense to discuss this and other issues with emotions and a 'no -matter- how -reasonable-the -arguments-are-i-stick-to-my-opinion-attitude.

May Allah guide us.

Edited October 25, 2015 by mina313

[Ali_Hussain]

 

 

This isn't about haters hating, this about something that is repulsive to most people except news age hippies who seem to believe that this is part of Islamic heritage and as such, people shouldn't criticise it.

[Abu'l Khattab]

The same topic, by the same people, with the same posts.

The best part is, as I've been on this site, people have been talking about repulsive innovations and reviving islamic traditions, but they have done little to prove it.

The same people have been stuck in the same phases for the longest time, and there's no sign they want to let up.

I'll make two notable exceptions of people on this thread. Ibn al-Ja'abi and Ali_Hussain (yes, I'm giving him a compliment, take a picture). The two brothers have made a notable improvement in their arabic skills and have contributed to the site on an ever-increasing scale. 

The rest of you (take it generally) have been posting the same things since you've come on the site. We get it already, you don't like tatbeer. Many other people don't either.

But guess what's worse? Not learning the narrations of Ahlul Bayt, and worse yet, rejecting them without even knowing because you haven't given time to read the narrations thoroughly. 


So stop wasting your time on tatbeer threads. People who do tatbeer aren't going to stop, neither are their opponents. Running around in circles will only hurt you in the long run, and not anyone else.  

Your time on this earth is set, use it well. 

 

[5a49]

Instead of cutting your head with a knife to show your loyalty to Imam Hussein, the battle is going on with ISIS in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen. You can travel there and pledge allegiance to Imam Hussein.

 

This is disgusting. Traditions taken from Christians that infiltrated Shia Islam.

[Martyrdom]

With all the blood they are wasting they could have donated it to the injured fighters in syria and iraq. 

[Guest]

Seems like Abul khattab's excellent advice has fallen on deaf ears

[Abu'l Khattab]

This proves my point. If you read more than just posting slogans against tatbeerists, you would've known that Amr bil-Ma'roof is Wajib Kifa'i, not Wajib Ayni. 
 

But the point isn't about Amr bil-Ma'roof, it's to propagate a specific political stance. 

Take what I said or leave it, you're the one who loses in the end.