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In the Name of God بسم الله

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I thought I would explain the Blind man incident as I understand. Not saying my interpretation is guarantee and 100% truth.

 

But just like Allah [swt] says "taste, indeed you are the honorable noble" and is being sarcastic, sarcasm can be done.

 

And it can say:

 

"He (Mohammad ) frowned and turned away

because there came to him the blind one [spiritually blind person who turns away from proofs of God and blind themselves to the truth while it's clear as daylight to them]

And what would make you know - for perhaps he may purify himself. (sarcasm) 

Or remember that the remembrance may benefit him. (sarcasm)

As for he who comes to you needless (of you and God),

would you attend yourself? (rhetorical)

(This) while it's not upon you to purify him

As for he who comes to you striving,

And he fears

would you divert yourself? (rhetorical)

Nay, rather it is a reminder!

So who wishes may remember! 

 

 

It's very beautiful to me when read this way, because, so much of the Quran emphasizes Mohammad cannot guide the blind out of their error or make the deaf hear. So when he recognizes a person to be such, he doesn't waste his time while there are others who are sincerely coming to him striving for the truth and fearing. It's rather upon him to guide such people seeking the truth from Him.   It is a reminder, so who wants to, may remember. We aren't to waste out time arguing all day with blind people who would never accept the truth no matter how clear it is.

 

And it provides an example to us.

 

That said, we shouldn't really judge people if we aren't quite certain of their knowledge and whether they are sincere or not.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

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I thought I would explain the Blind man incident as I understand. Not saying my interpretation is guarantee and 100% truth.

 

But just like Allah [swt] says "taste, indeed you are the honorable noble" and is being sarcastic, sarcasm can be done.

 

And it can say:

 

"He (Mohammad ) frowned and turned away

because there came to him the blind one [spiritually blind person who turns away from proofs of God and blind themselves to the truth while it's clear as daylight to them]

And what would make you know - for perhaps he may purify himself. (sarcasm) 

Or remember that the remembrance may benefit him. (sarcasm)

As for he who comes to you needless (of you and God),

would you attend yourself? (rhetorical)

(This) while it's not upon you to purify him

As for he who comes to you striving,

And he fears

would you divert yourself? (rhetorical)

Nay, rather it is a reminder!

So who wishes may remember! 

 

 

It's very beautiful to me when read this way, because, so much of the Quran emphasizes Mohammad cannot guide the blind out of their error or make the deaf hear. So when he recognizes a person to be such, he doesn't waste his time while there are others who are sincerely coming to him striving for the truth and fearing. It's rather upon him to guide such people seeking the truth from Him.   It is a reminder, so who wants to, may remember. We aren't to waste out time arguing all day with blind people who would never accept the truth no matter how clear it is.

 

And it provides an example to us.

 

That said, we shouldn't really judge people if we aren't quite certain of their knowledge and whether they are sincere or not.

I think I understand where you are coming from, but would the rehmet-alal-Alameen turn his back on someone regardless of who it was? We find the Prophet saw and his progeny to be the most benevolent of people.

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I think I understand where you are coming from, but would the rehmet-alal-Alameen turn his back on someone regardless of who it was? We find the Prophet saw and his progeny to be the most benevolent of people.

Salam

 

Differences of opinion are welcome.

 

My counter argument is: But is there any point in getting in argument with a person who wants to argue rather then want to learn? Is it actually a mercy to do that? The Quran itself says "whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe" and says "you cannot guide the blind out of their error" and "you cannot make the deaf hear". So why would it be a mercy to give it the whims of a person who just seeks to argue rather then have any sincerity to learn? 

 

The Prophet has limited time. Why would he not divert himself from those who see themselves needless of guidance while there are those striving hard and fearing who he should devote his time to?

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

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Salam

 

Differences of opinion are welcome.

 

My counter argument is: But is there any point in getting in argument with a person who wants to argue rather then want to learn? Is it actually a mercy to do that? The Quran itself says "whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe" and says "you cannot guide the blind out of their error" and "you cannot make the deaf hear". So why would it be a mercy to give it the whims of a person who just seeks to argue rather then have any sincerity to learn? 

 

The Prophet has limited time. Why would he not divert himself from those who see themselves needless of guidance while there are those striving hard and fearing who he should devote his time to?

 

brother - the blind man is allegedly Abdullah Ibn Umm-Maktum who was among the first converts to Islam. I am not fully sure of his status so perhaps he was as you say, perhaps not.

 

thanks.

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Salam, 

Al-Khidr, there are a few verses in the Quran which actually prove that warners or messengers are transparent and belong to the people they were sent to:
 

"For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle, (with the Command), "Serve God, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom God guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).  (The Noble Quran, 16:36)" 

 

"To every people (was sent) an apostle: when their apostle comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged.  (The Noble Quran, 10:47)"


"We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now God leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.  (The Noble Quran, 14:4)"


"Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).  (The Noble Quran, 35:24)"


"We did send apostles before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of an apostle to bring a sign except as God permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed).  (The Noble Quran, 13:38)"

 



 If so then how can they (all messengers and warners) be black as not all people are black? 

Edited by Skanderbeg

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brother - the blind man is allegedly Abdullah Ibn Umm-Maktum who was among the first converts to Islam. I am not fully sure of his status so perhaps he was as you say, perhaps not.

 

thanks.

 

That was a physically blind man per the hadiths and he was a sincere one seeking the truth. I'm saying perhaps the hadiths are wrong and it's referring to an arrogant person towards the truth seeking argument and not the truth.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

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Salam, 
 

 
DR. GHALI He (The prophet) frowned and turned away,
MUHSIN KHAN (The Prophet (Peace be upon him)) frowned and turned away,
PICKTHALL He frowned and turned away
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL The Prophet frowned and turned away
SHAKIR He frowned and turned (his) back,

 

YUSUF ALI (The Prophet) frowned and turned away,

In some translations like Shakir it's written 'He' while other translations write 'The Prophet', (The Prophet) and others (The prophet (Peace be upon him)).

While when we look in the Word by Word section no Arabic equivalent for the word Prophet is to be found:

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ebs#(80:1:1)

it only says 'Abasa which litterally translated means 'He frowned'. 

Exactly the same word (Abasa) is used in Quran 74:22 where it is an action of nothing but a disbeliever. 

So the translation of the first verse of Surah 80 is not only just wrong but a blasphemous suggestion AND

In both verses in the Quran the word or sentence 'Abasa' (He frowned) has a very negative connotation. It's strange or rather impossible if the Prophet s.a.w. was meant by this.

 

Edited by Skanderbeg

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Salaam Alkhidr

 

Would you care to address this verse:

 

(30:22) And of His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth31 and the diversity of your tongues and colours.32 Indeed there are Signs in this for the wise.

 

At what point did Allah swt gave color coordination to mankind? Again, i would want you to address this point from the Quran?

 

Furthermore, i would like you to also address as to what  color was Prophet Isa (as) ? bearing in mind his birth was a miracle, and was not created from the same biological process as other humans?

 

Also i am patiently waiting for  a response from you on outstanding question.

 

"Allāh has promised those among you who believe, and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession [to authority] in the earth, as He granted it to those before them, and that He will surely establish for them [therein] their religion which He is pleased with for them. And He will surely give them in exchange a safe security after their fear (provided) they (believers) worship Me and do not associate anything with Me. But whoever disbelieved after this, they are disobedient sinners." [24:55]

 

​Allah swt has promised there would be successor to authority in his religion of Islam, from the Quran, to whom is this succession will belong to?

 

 

[Pickthal 9:40] If ye help him not, still Allah helped him when those who disbelieve drove him forth, the second of two; when they two were in the cave, when he said unto his comrade: Grieve not. Lo! Allah is with us. Then Allah caused His peace of reassurance to descend upon him and supported him with hosts ye cannot see, and made the word of those who disbelieved the nethermost, while Allah's Word it was that became the uppermost. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

 

we know that Prophet(Pbuh&hf) was in the cave, but WHO  was the other? Once again, i liked to know from the Quran as to who was the other?

w

 

 

 

You said:

 

"At what point did Allah swt gave color coordination to mankind? Again, i would want you to address this point from the Quran?"

 

Allah does not give us a date in the Qur'aan when other people started to evolve into different races. 

 

"Furthermore, i would like you to also address as to what  color was Prophet Isa (as) ? bearing in mind his birth was a miracle, and was not created from the same biological process as other humans?"

 

I see you are another one who has a difficult time like Gaius accepting the Prophets bloodline as Black.  All the Prophets are Black including Isa.  Remember Isa's mother is a human being and she is also a direct descendant of Abraham who is also Black.  There is no doubt that Isa was a Black man.  He has the same genetic make up as his mother and the lineage or bloodline she belongs to.  Download my book and read SHI'ITE MYTH 10 which addresses your question thoroughly and also exposes the racism in the Shia sect behind them creating that false image of the 12 Imams as pale skin.

Salam, 

 

 

In some translations like Shakir it's written 'He' while other translations write 'The Prophet', (The Prophet) and others (The prophet (Peace be upon him)).

While when we look in the Word by Word section no Arabic equivalent for the word Prophet is to be found:

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ebs#(80:1:1)

it only says 'Abasa which litterally translated means 'He frowned'. 

Exactly the same word (Abasa) is used in Quran 74:22 where it is an action of nothing but a disbeliever. 

So the translation of the first verse of Surah 80 is not only just wrong but a blasphemous suggestion AND

In both verses in the Quran the word or sentence 'Abasa' (He frowned) has a very negative connotation. It's strange or rather impossible if the Prophet s.a.w. was meant by this.

 

 

Salaam Skenderbeg

 

Since you don't believe that was Prophet Muhammad in that verse, then tell me who was it? 

Salam, 

Al-Khidr, there are a few verses in the Quran which actually prove that warners or messengers are transparent and belong to the people they were sent to:

 

 If so then how can they (all messengers and warners) be black as not all people are black? 

 

Those verses that you quoted are only talking about how Allah sends His Messengers which has no bearing on what race they are.  The Prophets/Messengers of Allah are clear, obvious, manifest warners.  However, I quoted the verses that targets the race of the Prophets which are clearly Black in the Holy Qur'aan.  I quoted the verse in the Qur'aan where Allah says they all belong to the same progeny which eliminates the Prophets from being of different races.  Download my book and read SHI'ITE MYTH 10.

 

Can you prove that Ali, 12 Imams are Pale skinned as depicted in the pictures created by the Shia Ulama?

Edited by AlKhidr

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Salaam alaikum,

I am also awaiting your response to power's questions, please take your time but don't let us wait in vain. In the mean time, please don't get upset with me but since you said in your "challenging questions" that nikah mutah is haram, how do you understand the meaning of the phrase "Ma malakat aymanukum" in 4:3 and 4:24? If I may clarify, nikah mutah isn't about sex, it can be used for other purposes. Like if you are physically disabled like me, you can do nikah mutah with a non-mahran woman so she becomes mahran and can take care of you and help you for time period agreed by both man and woman.

Lastly, how do you know exactly that the prophets (saw) and the Imams (as) are black and why specifically Nubian? There are many different races in Africa like Ethiopian, ancient Egyptian, Serer and Fula. Besides using 15:26 and 15:28, produce and evince your stronger claims to me so that I may see and understand what you are trying to expose. I already know that we are African in origin and I have no problem with having a black man for an ancestor but Pan-Nubian sentiment is no different than white power or Pan-Arabist sentiment. How can you even accuse me of racism when you claim that the Nubian race is pure? Again, the pictures of the Imams (as) are artistic depictions, the Ulamas have nothing to do with the pictures. The pictures are created by the common layman, do I like the pictures? No, not really, I think we should avoid depictions of the Imams (as), it's not about how they looked or what color their skin was but what they taught that is important. Reading myth number 10 just smacks of Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam. I think the ghost of Wallace Fard Muhammad came over and pat me on shoulder when I was reading what you wrote at the end of page 25 and beginning of page 26. I know this wasn't your intention but you really are going to have explain what you meant by the Nubian race being kept pure. I am not trying to offend you in anyway whatsoever.

But if you can't or won't explain your position in further depth. I understand, it can be hard to keep up with zebras when a lion gives chase.

 

Salaam Gaius

 

You are a funny dude.  I remember your very first post, you said I'm not going to download your book and mess up my iphone or computer and now look at you-I see you downloaded my book any way and read it.

 

For some reason Gaius I'm not surprised that SHI'ITE MYTH 10 disturbed you as a result of your racist mentality.  How are you going to try to associate my section of SHI'ITE MYTH 10 with racism when it is a response to the racism of the Shia sect who produces those white, European images of the 12 Imams and they also have same type of images of Prophet Muhammad.  Those images to me are not artistic at all, they represent a lie and was designed to uphold white arab supremacy and remove the Black presence in Islaamic History.  This form of racism exist with the white jews, Christians as well.

 

Now let me answer you quickly about the word Nubian.  The word Nubian simply means Black and its an original word that we use for our selves before we were colonized by the Europeans. 

 

Nubian.JPG

 

Instead of saying Nubian, I could have said Black because it means the same thing, however, Nubian has more pride, culture, originality to it when the word Bblack" is a crayon color.  Nubia (which is called Sudan today) was the first civilization in the world and this is where we get the name Nubian from.  Below is an article which confirms how Nubia was the first civilization in the world:

 

New%20York%20Times.JPG

 

Words such as Ethiopian, Nigerian, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Somali, Senegal, just to name a few are not names that we originally used for our selves.  When the eurpean man came and colonized and enslaved us they renamed us and the continent.  When we understand what has happened to us and how we were made divided by labels, it makes easier to understand that we are not separate races, we are one race.

 

I will also address Mut'ah later.  You mentioned that people don't always use mut'ah for sex.  That is exactly what Shia Muslims use it for and if they are using it for any other purposes it is still wrong and a violation of the Qur'aan.  I will prove this later.

Really, really - this is the best you can do. You need to try harder.

 

May be I said it is great because it is so easy for me to refute everything in it.

May be I said it is great because it is its so childish that we are discussing some pictures by an artist as if it makes any difference

May be I said it is great because we are discussing colors

May be I said it is great because when you visit someone who has a new baby and the baby is ugly, you still have to smile and say how cute the baby is. This is your ugly baby.

May be I said i sarcastically because my full quote was, "I have read the document and I think it is great. But then I also think some Hadith books are great so what do I know."

BUT the real reason I said it is great because I was executing a pincer move and it worked brilliantly.

 

I asked you very politely to set rules and no personal attacks but you said, "You will not allow 1 of anything, you must don't realize who you are talking to.  I do not bow down to no so-called person on the internet.  I will speak my mind as I see fit.  If you enter the atmosphere of debate, it comes with the territory and plus you did not see me sit here and cry/complain about some of your snide remarks." You implied you wanted to hang with the big boys and now you cry/complain about, "YOU NEVER QUOTED ANYTHING IN MY BOOK TO PROVE YOUR ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT OF ME"

 

I didn't quote anything from you book because I was hoping people actually read it but since you asked:

 

"Rasuwl Allah who is the Seal Of The Prophets was not infallible and by the Shi'ite sect claiming that their Imams are infallible they have actually exalted and placed them above Prophet Muhammad." - PG 4
 
"Prophet Muhammad even made some mistakes and below is an example of one of them where he prohibited something that Allah made lawful"
PG 5
 
"I have proven to you that Prophet Muhammad who received the revelation of the Qur'aan was a human like all of us and that he also made mistake"
PG 5
 
"Prophet Muhammad's family so he is a member of Ahlul Bayt and the Qur'aan makes it very clear that he was not infallible because he was a human like us (Qur'aan 41:6; 18:110) and made mistakes"
PG 12

 

Prophet Muhammad made another mistake in Sura 'Abasa verses 1-12 which is Qur'aan 80:1-12 because when the blind man who fears Allah came striving earnestly to Prophet Muhammad, He (Prophet Muhammad) turned away from the blind man but yet Prophet Muhammad gave some other man (his attention) who was arrogant by thinking himself was without need. Prophet Muhammad was too preoccupied with this man and
turned his back on the blind man who fears Allah. These mistakes by Prophet Muhammad proves that the members of Ahlul Bayt are NOT infallible which DESTROYS the Shi'ite shirk interpretation of them claiming that the 12 Imams, Ahlul Bayt are infallible.
PG 13
 
"I CHALLENGE THE SHI'ITE SECT TO PRODUCE ONE VERSE FROM THE QUR'AAN THAT SAYS PROPHET MUHAMMAD IS THE TEACHER OF THE QUR'AAN"
PG 17
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

To my muslim brothers and sisters - I am sure you are aware of the hadith that Allah has created everything for the love of Muhammad.

 

AlKhidr - A house is on fire with the Prophet and a copy of the Quran in it. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Every Muslim will choose to save Muhammad saw because Allah can always reveal ayats to Muhammad again but without Muhammad, who would receive revelation?

 

I love the Messenger more because there is no message without him but I don't need to explain that to you. First we will have to get you to recite the correct kalmia

 

 

Salaam Shiaman14

 

I read your post and you were suppose to quote me attacking Prophet Muhammad, Ali, Ahlul Bayt and you failed in your attempted.  For example you made an attempted to quote me here:

 

"Rasuwl Allah who is the Seal Of The Prophets was not infallible and by the Shi'ite sect claiming that their Imams are infallible they have actually exalted and placed them above Prophet Muhammad. - PG 4"

 

"Prophet Muhammad even made some mistakes and below is an example of one of them where he prohibited something that Allah made lawful-PG 5"

 

Shiaman14 these are not attacks on Prophet Muhammad and you know this, the problem is that you are operating on EMOTION.  When I say that Prophet Muhammad is not infallible and also made mistakes because Allah revealed those mistakes in the Qur'aan are not attacks and every body can see that and make the analytical distinction between the two.  What I am attacking or exposing is the Shia sect school of thought that says Muhammad is infallible which means perfect, incapable of committing error.  I proved clearly that Muhammad is not infallible and also made mistakes.  Such teaching is straight up shirk, the only reality that is infallible is our Creator.  Everybody is still waiting for you to quote my book where I attacked Prophet Muhammad, Ali, 12 Imams, Ahlul Bayt??????  You have said in your previous post that I made these statements in my book attacking Muhammad:

 

"You should NOT have started your pamphlet by insulting the Prophet by saying he sinned"

 

Shiaman14 quote me in my book where I said Muhammad "sinned" and if you can't which we all know you can't then why are you straight up lying on Al Khidr like the thousands of people who are viewing this debate can see right through you.

 

" "I am all over the place because your intro pages are all over the place. It attacks the ahlul-bayt, the sahaba, the Prophet"

 

Shiaman14 you said I attacked Ahul Bayt and the Sahaba, then quote my book where I attacked Ahlul Bayt and the Sahahaba, don't just make empty statements to assassinate my character with lies and slander.

 

SHIAMAN14 MY BOOK IS STILL BEGGING YOU TO QUOTE IT TO PROVE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT ME IN TERMS OF YOUR CLAIMS THAT I AM ATTACKING PROPHET MUHAMMAD, AHLUL BAYT, ALI, 12 IMAMS.

 

Then you go and say this:

 

"AlKhidr offends and insults the Prophet and no sunni has stepped up to defend the Prophet"

 

Its funny how you as a Shia Muslim oppose the Sunni Muslims and now you are sending out a rallying cry to help you (the Shia Muslim).  You are a laughing joke.  Perhaps no Sunni Muslim came out against me because they view my book as Al Haqq that is DESTROYING the Shia sect school of thought.  Sunni Muslims do not teach nor believe Muhammad, Ahlul Bayt are infallible, this is only the Shia shirk teachings which is unfounded in the Holy Qur'aan.

 

I'm not surprised that you responded with this:

 

"I love the Messenger more because there is no message without him but I don't need to explain that to you."

 

You indicated that you love the Messenger more than Allah because there is no message without him.  Shiaman14 you are nothing but a MUSHRIK that worships Muhammad.  I have to correct you, there will be no Message without the Creator Allah.  Allah is independent of Muhammad and all the Prophets and Allah can get His message out any way He sees fit even without Muhammad if that was His will.   No wonder you believe that Muhammad, Ali, 12 Imams was infallible because only a MUSHRIK could be attracted to such shirk belief.

 

"First we will have to get you to recite the correct kalima"

 

Maybe we can later set up another post to debate the true Kalima.  I challenge you to prove your Shahaada where you mention Muhammad, Ali in the Holy Qur'aan?

 

" My humble opinion is that it is pointless to discuss anything until we can come to an agreement about the Prophet saw. Was he a man just like us who sinned?"

 

Shiaman14, I have never said that Muhammad sinned, I said in my book that he is not infallible and that he made mistakes.  Note mistakes are not synonymous for sin.  Also in my book I addressed all aspects of the Shia sectarian school of thought which you nor anyone in here has been able to refute.  No one as of yet proved anything in the Qur'aan that prove their Shia sect school of thought.  I'm glad that we are having this dialogue or debate so every one can see how incompetent Shia Muslims, Imams, Shaykhs, Muftis are in terms of proving their sect cult beliefs that are clearly unfounded in the Qur'aan.

 

"You have clearly stated your thoughts on the issue of the Prophet saw and you have read ours. By now, you should know the high esteem we hold the Prophet in"

 

I want to focus the part of your statement that I highlighted in red.  I do not see the high esteem the Shia  Muslims have for Prophet Muhammad, what I see is that the Shia Muslims commit idol worship by exalting Ali, 12 Imams, Ahlul Bayt above Prophet Muhammad as I have outlined in my book.  The second thing that I do see is that no Shia cannot prove their arguments in the Qur'aan.  Shia Muslims do good when they debate Sunni Muslims where both of you two use hadiyth books as the fabricated sunna but when it comes to dealing with a Muslim that follows Qur'aan ALONE which represents Pure Islaam, you cannot deal with us, we are a totally different beast; when it comes to us we will challenge your very foundation of which you stand on and I'm talking about those hadiyth books that the Shia sect cannot even prove INSIDE the Qur'aan that they are a source of Islaam.  You see, the Shia Muslim will not get that type of argument from Sunni Muslims.  When you are dealing with a Muslim that follows Qur'aan ALONE, you are dealing with a totally different paradigm that you cannot touch.  If you were honest, you will say all the catechisms of the Shia sects school of thougth does not come from the Qur'aan but comes from those hadiyth books such as Ali, 12 Imams, Prophet Muhammad being infallible and much much more. 

 

"Al Khidr - I would like to call a truce and offer my virtual hand of friendship"

 

My response to you is this, if you can prove what you say with evidence I will have to accept but if I prove what I say with evidence, then you will have to accept what I say.  And if you were honest so far you nor anybody in here has proven nothing to support the Shia School Of Thought which is a very sad case or situation.

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SECOND PERSON IN THE CAVE

 

As Salaamu Alaykum To All

 

I was asked to respond to this verse:

 

Qur'aan 9:40

If you fail to support him (the Messenger), Allah has already supported him. Thus, when the disbelievers chased him, and he was one of two in the cave, he said to his friend, "Do not worry; Allah is with us." Allah then sent down contentment and security upon him, and supported him with soldiers you did not see. He made the word of the disbelievers lowly. Allah's word reigns supreme. Allah is Almighty, Most Wise.

 

The two sects: Shia & Sunni as usual are trying to figure out who was that second person.  Both of these sects have different answers as who was the second person in the cave with Muhammad and that is because they base their answers on two separate conflicting hadiyth books which neither one of them can prove that their (Shia hadiyth & Sunni hadiyth) is a source of Islaam.

 

Knowing who was the second person in the cave that Allah by design chose not to mention has nothing to do with following true Islaam.  Remember the Qur'aan was revealed from Allah's knowledge and not Ahlul Bayt nor Ahlul Sunna knowledge:

 

Qur'aan 4:166

But Allah bears witness concerning what He has revealed to you; He has revealed it with His knowledge.  And the Angelic Beings bear witness as well.  And Allah is sufficient as Witness.

 

Since Allah has not mentioned anyone of your khalifas, sahahaba, hadiyth writers in the Qur'aan and none of them have knowledge of gayb (the unseen) including Prophet Muhammad that means any person the Shia or Sunni sects says was the second person would only be their sect WISHFUL THINKING, ASSUMPTION, BELIEF, OPINION, MAN-MADE INNOVATION but not Al Haqq.  No body knows who was the second person because Allah did not reveal who that second person was in the Qur'aan and it is irrelevant in terms of practicing true Islaam.  Again in terms of following Islaam, we don't need to know who was that second person, what we need to do as a Muslim is study the Sura, get the guidance, lesson, message of the revelation not only in that Sura but the entire Qur'aan, Alhamdulillah!!!!

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Qur'aan 3:144

Muhammad was no more than a Messenger like the Messengers before him. Should he die or get killed, would you turn back on your heels? Anyone who turns back on his heels, does not hurt Allah in the least. Allah rewards those who are appreciative.

 

Qur’aan 7:188

Say (O Muhammad), “I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what Allah wills happens to me. If I knew the future, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe.”

 

Qur'aan 46:9

Say (O Muhammad), “I am not different from other Messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a clear warner.

 

Qur'aan 41:6

Say, "I am no more than a human being like you, who has been inspired that your Creator is one Creator.  You shall be devoted to Him, and ask His forgiveness.  Woe to the idol worshippers.

 

Qur'aan 18:110

Say, "I am no more than a human being like you, being inspired that your Creator is one Creator.  Those who hope to meet their Lord shall work righteousness, and never worship any other god beside his Lord."

قال هذا صراط علي مستقيم

(الحجر:41

 

There. The name of the Imam in the Qura'an

 

ـ(ابن شاذان) في كتابه (مائة منقبة): ((حدّثنا جعفر بن محمّد بن قولويه(رحمه الله), قال: حدّثني علي بن الحسن النحوي، قال: حدّثني أحمد بن محمّد, قال: حدّثني منصور بن أبي العبّاس, قال: حدّثني علي بن أسباط, عن الحكم بن بهلول, قال: حدّثني أبوهما، قال: حدّثني عبد الله بن أُذينة, عن جعفر بن محمّد, عن أبيه, عن علي بن الحسين, عن أبيه، قال: قام عمر بن الخطّاب إلى النبيّ(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم)، فقال: إنّك لا تزال تقول لعليّ: أنت منّي بمنزلة هارون [من موسى] وقد ذكر [الله] هارون في القرآن ولم يذكر عليّاً(عليه السلام)؟ فقال النبيّ(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم): (يا غليظ يا أعرابي! أما تسمع قول الله تعالى: (( هَذَا صِرَاطٌ عَلَيَّ مُستَقِيمٌ )) (الحِجر:41) ))

 

حدثنا حمزة بن محمد بن أحمد بن جعفر بن محمد بن زيد بن على بن الحسين بن علي بن أبي طالب  بقم في رجب سنة تسع وثلثين وثلاثمأة قال حدثني أبي عن ياسر الخادم عن أبي الحسن علي بن موسى الرضا عن أبيه عن آبائه عن الحسين بن علي  قال قال رسول الله " ص " لعلي (يا علي أنت حجة الله , و أنت باب الله , وأنت الطريق إلى الله , وأنت النبأ العظيم ,و أنت الصراط المستقيم , وأنت المثل الأعلى , يا علي أنت إمام المسلمين ,و أمير المؤمنين , وخير الوصيين , وسيد الصديقين, يا علي أنت الفاروق الأعظم , وأنت الصديق الأكبر, يا علي أنت خليفتي على أمتي , وأنت قاضي ديني , وأنت منجز عداتي , يا علي أنت المظلوم بعدي , يا علي أنت المفارق بعدي , يا علي أنت المحجور بعدي . أشهد الله تعالى ومن حضر من أمتي أن حزبك حزبي وحزبي حزب الله وان حزب أعدائك حزب الشيطان .

 

حدثنا محمد بن القاسم الإستر آبادي المفسر رضي الله عنه قال : حدثنا يوسف بن محمد بن زياد وعلى بن محمد بن سيار عن أبويهما عن الحسن بن على عن أبيه على بن محمد عن أبيه محمد بن على عن أبيه الرضا على بن موسى عن أبيه موسى بن جعفر  قال : قال جعفر بن محمد الصادق  في قول الله عز وجل : ( اهدنا الصراط المستقيم ) قال : يقول : أرشدنا إلى الطريق المستقيم أي أرشدنا للزوم الطريق المؤدى إلى محبتك والمبلغ دينك والمانع من أن نتبع أهوائنا فنعطب أو نأخذ بآرائنا فنهلك .

 

 

I HAVE ALREADY REFUTED THIS CLAIM IN THIS POST WHEN SHIAMAN14 TRIED TO USE THE SAME ARGUMENT; THAT IS NOT ALI'S NAME IN THAT VERSE AND YOU KNOW THIS, YOU NEED TO QUITE LYING TO YOURSELF AND THE PEOPLE.  WHERE IS YOUR ARABIC AQL AT????  DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND OR HAVE COMPREHENSION OF THE QUR'AAN?  I HOPE YOU DID NOT THINK YOU CAN JUST QUOTE ALL ARABIC AND DON'T THINK I OR ANY BODY ELSE WILL KNOW WHAT IT SAYS!!!!!  THESE NEOPHYTES ARE FUNNY.

THINGS I AM IN AGREEMENT FOR

I do agree with you on some points, like the fact that we have given so much importance to clergy which has no basis in Islam, we do what the maulvi/marja feed us without scrutinizing it, i am sorry to say that's a lot like christanity. Islam is complete in itself . we must always carefully scrutinize whatever  the sheikh/marja tells us But yes the door to knowledge is open and things change with time so those who do not know should ask those who know but NOT FOLLOW THEM BLINDLY.

 

I also agree with you over the fact that being a follower of Hadith can get very confusing and misleading at times, because we have two opposite sets of Hadiths for most things. For this Prophet Muhammad also suggested a solution which says "accept my hadith only if it is in accordance with the Quran, if it contradicts the Quran reject it"

 

THINGS I DO NOT AGREE WITH

 

It's not just Prophet Muhammad but all prophets were rightly guided people from Allah and the Imams (progeny of muhammad) are exalted in ranks than the prophets sent to bani israel.

 

The verses i posted are from SURAH NAJM. As follows

 

"Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred

Nor does he speak from his own inclination

It is not but a revelation revealed."

 

 

The following verses are from Surah Nahl, verse 43, the ahlul zikr are the people of the House.

 

1.       And We did not send any except men before you whom We inspired, so ask the people who received the Reminder if you do not know.

 

Ahlul Zikr/Ahlul Bayt are the inheritors of wisdom and ilm from prophet Muhammad, so ask them when you don't know. 

 

 

You regard turning away from a blind man and abandoning relations from wife in bed chamber as a sin? PROVE IT FROM QURAN IT IS A SIN.

 

It doesn't matter if the Prophet and Imams are white or black we love them no different.

 

Since you seem to be asking for Proof from only the Quran, Mutah is mentioned in the verse 24 of surah 4. Allah has ordained the laws of marriage in that verse as 3

1) Nikkah

2)Mulk al yameen

3) Nikkah mutah (fa mas tamta'tum is the word, i do not know arabic but in the verse the exact word mutah has been used, between famast and tum). We have only proof from haditht that abrogates Mutah in sunni school of thought.

 

 

 

 

So a quranite should agree for the validity of mutah! 

 

Salaam ShiaSunnibrotherhood

 

I have great respect for what you said and in essence this is my message of how the masses of the people are blindly following their imams, shaykhs, muftis, ulama.  In your response, you were very honest and I can tell that you have an opened mind.

 

I and Muslims who follow Qur'aan alone also agree that all the Prophets of Allah are rightly guided and that we are not supposed to make any distinctions among the Prophets and this is one of the reasons why we reject the Sunni and Shia Shahaada.

 

"It doesn't matter if the Prophet and Imams are white or black we love them no different."

 

If it does not matter then the Sunni and Shia ulama would not be teaching that Muhammad and the rest of the Prophets, Ali, 12 Imams, etc. are White or Pale skin.  These sects are guilty of fabricating hadiyths saying that they are white and they have changed the image of all the Prophets to portray them as white and this was done long long long before I was even thought of so I am coming behind them and exposing their racism.  They are the ones in position of power exercising white arab supremacy and I'm exposing it and that is my purpose.  We cannot keep silent about this and act like its nothing.  Racism is a form of oppression and its our duty to destroy it.

 

Soon I will respond to you comment about Mut'ah and prove beyond doubt that its false and has nothing to do with the Qur'aan, Islaam.

 

MUHAMMAD IS NOT INFALLIBLE

 

The fact that Prophet Muhammad made some mistake proves that he was not infallible and this DESTROYS the Shia school of thought which teaches that Ahlul Bayt are infallible.  The mistakes that Allah revealed for us in the Qur'aan proves that (1) he is capable of making error, mistakes and (2) that he is only a human like all of us and as humans we are all capable of making mistakes, errors, except Allah.  Look at this clear and obvious mistake that Prophet Muhammad made (as revealed by Allah in the Qur'aan) because in the verse Prophet Muhammad prohibited something that Allah made lawful in order to please his wives:

 

Qur'aan 66:1

O you Prophet, why do you prohibit what Allah has made lawful for you, just to please your wives?  Allah is Forgiver, Merciful.

 

Prophet Muhammad made another mistake in Sura 'Abasa verses 1-12 which is Qur'aan 80:1-12 because when the blind man who fears Allah came striving earnestly to Prophet Muhammad, He (Prophet Muhammad) turned away from the blind man but yet Prophet Muhammad gave some other man (his attention) who was arrogant by thinking himself was without need.  Prophet Muhammad was too preoccupied with this man and turned his back on the blind man who fears Allah.  These mistakes by Prophet Muhammad proves that the members of Ahlul Bayt are NOT infallible which DESTROYS the Shi'ite shirk interpretation of them claiming that the 12 Imams, Ahlul Bayt are infallible.  This is why when you question these sects, challenge these sects they try to BUCK DANCE or SHUFFLE there way out of proving their arguments in the Qur'aan.  There is no doubt that the Shi'ite sect or Ulama are here to teach us a Christianized form of Islaam.

 

Qur'aan 80:1-12

1.  He frowned and turned away.

2.  When the blind man came to him.

3.  How do you know?  He might have sought to purify himself?

4.  Or become reminded and might have benefited from the message.

5.  As for the one who thinks himself without need.

6.  You gave him your attention.

7.  Though you are not to blame if he does not purify himself.

8.  But, as for him who came to you striving earnestly,

9.  And he fears (Allah)

10.  You were too preoccupied for him.

11.  Assuredly this is a reminder.

12.  Whoever wills shall take heed.

 

Allah IS THE ONLY INFALLIBLE REALITY AND SURA IKHLAAS VERSE 2 PROVE WHAT I'M SAYING:

 

As%20Samad.jpg

 

Muhammad is not infallible, look at these verses very carefully:

 

Qur'aan 3:144

Muhammad was no more than a Messenger like the Messengers before him. Should he die or get killed, would you turn back on your heels? Anyone who turns back on his heels, does not hurt Allah in the least. Allah rewards those who are appreciative.

 

Qur’aan 7:188

Say (O Muhammad), “I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what Allah wills happens to me. If I knew the future, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe.”

 

Qur'aan 46:9

Say (O Muhammad), “I am not different from other Messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a clear warner.

 

Qur'aan 41:6

Say, "I am no more than a human being like you, who has been inspired that your Creator is one Creator.  You shall be devoted to Him, and ask His forgiveness.  Woe to the idol worshippers.

 

Qur'aan 18:110

Say, "I am no more than a human being like you, being inspired that your Creator is one Creator.  Those who hope to meet their Lord shall work righteousness, and never worship any other god beside his Lord."

 

 

No Shia Muslim has been able to meet this challenging questions in my book head-on with evidence in the Qur'aan:

 

1A.  I CHALLENGE THE SHI'ITE SECT TO PROVE IN THE QUR'AAN THAT THEIR IMAMS ARE INFALLIBLE?

 

 

THE HIDDEN IMAM IS A HOAX FABRICATED BY THE SHIA SECT

 

THE SHI'ITE MYTH 6:

Shi'ite Muslims are waiting on the 12th Imam to appear and this is why they teach that the 12th Imam is the hidden one (or invisible) because again they are waiting for him to appear or come.  This is why when you look at their pictures they make of the 12 Imams, the 12th Imam's face is usually covered or blocked out.  This story or fairytale here does not exist no where in the Qur'aan.  This whole concept of the 12th Imam being the hidden or invisible one and how they are waiting for him to come is a fabricated story or bida (man-made innovations) that are found in their hadiyth books that were written around 250 years AFTER the death of Prophet Muhammad, by men who never physically seen nor talked with Prophet Muhammad.

 

6A.  I CHALLENGE THE SHI'ITE SECT TO PRODUCE EVIDENCE IN THE QUR'AAN THAT BACKS THEIR STORY UP OF THE 12TH IMAM WHO IS THE HIDDEN OR INVISIBLE ONE THAT THEY ARE WAITING TO APPEAR OR COME?

 

Again I must highlight the fact that there has been no Shia Muslim that has been able to come forth and meet my CHALLENGING QUESTIONS in my book head-on with evidence in the Qur'aan.

 

 

Salaam,

 

Al Khidr

 

 

 

Edited by AlKhidr

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salam ALKhidr,

i am sorry i failed to download your book & keep up & thus wasting your time. I don't know what you are talking about, just want to know how do you pray & how you learnt that way of praying. Should you have answered that then pls simply direct me to that place.

ws

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Salaam alaikum,

Well, I wasn't sure about downloading your pamphlet but finally, I clicked on your link and found that unlike last time, I could read it without downloading it on to my phone. So, if you think I was being a hypocrite, I wasn't; I was trying to be careful with downloading your file.

Again, I am not a racist. That's quite a baseless claim. The only racist here is you, with so called "facts" about the Prophets (saws) and Imams (as) being a particular race. StrugglingForLight raises a good question, if they were indeed black as you claim, why did Allah send prophets and messengers to all nations? (10:47) This is from Muhammad's Farewell Sermon: "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white – except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood." That's a powerful speech, that's a crying shame that you reject all hadiths, you could have learnt a valuable lesson. But that won't bother you, it's all fake to you. See what you are missing?

If you actually read the Qur'an instead of a debate that only uses circular logic and talking down to others, you would learn the answers to your own questions already. As for hadiths, as they don't contradict Qur'an and are corroborated by the Qur'an, there is no harm in using them. And if you use common sense, logic and ask Allah for guidance, you will see which is the correct set of hadiths. Do you want to know why nobody has been able to answer your questions? Because your questions jump all over the place and the way how you talk to us like we are ignorant and were born yesterday is repulsive to say the very least. In fact, don't even bother explaining what mutah is to me. You don't know us Shia to even understand that Mutah is not just sex or we use it for other purposes besides having relations.

Sigh, the only thing that you are doing is proving to me that I was right to stop being a Qur'anist and that you cannot keep a debate or prove your points without personally attacking others, which is ironic, considering you accuse Shiaman14 of assassinating your character when you don't as much as bat an eye when almost gleefully "assassinating" my character with relish. Whatever did I see in the Qur'anist movement that was appealing? All the arguments for Qur'an alone shoot themselves in the foot and when viewed critically make no sense. Especially your Nation of Islam - flavored version of Qur'an alone. I'm glad I awoke up and smelled the coffee before it was too late.

Sorry for my harshness of words but I am getting tired of being called a racist ad hominem and ad nauseam. Plus, personally attacking others has got to stop. It's unsightly and repugnant to read.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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I read your post and you were suppose to quote me attacking Prophet Muhammad, Ali, Ahlul Bayt and you failed in your attempted.  For example you made an attempted to quote me here:

 

"Rasuwl Allah who is the Seal Of The Prophets was not infallible and by the Shi'ite sect claiming that their Imams are infallible they have actually exalted and placed them above Prophet Muhammad. - PG 4"

 

"Prophet Muhammad even made some mistakes and below is an example of one of them where he prohibited something that Allah made lawful-PG 5"

 

Shiaman14 these are not attacks on Prophet Muhammad and you know this, the problem is that you are operating on EMOTION.  When I say that Prophet Muhammad is not infallible and also made mistakes because Allah revealed those mistakes in the Qur'aan are not attacks and every body can see that and make the analytical distinction between the two.  What I am attacking or exposing is the Shia sect school of thought that says Muhammad is infallible which means perfect, incapable of committing error.  I proved clearly that Muhammad is not infallible and also made mistakes.  Such teaching is straight up shirk, the only reality that is infallible is our Creator.  Everybody is still waiting for you to quote my book where I attacked Prophet Muhammad, Ali, 12 Imams, Ahlul Bayt??????  You have said in your previous post that I made these statements in my book attacking Muhammad:

 

"You should NOT have started your pamphlet by insulting the Prophet by saying he sinned"

 

Shiaman14 quote me in my book where I said Muhammad "sinned" and if you can't which we all know you can't then why are you straight up lying on Al Khidr like the thousands of people who are viewing this debate can see right through you.

 

" "I am all over the place because your intro pages are all over the place. It attacks the ahlul-bayt, the sahaba, the Prophet"

 

Shiaman14 you said I attacked Ahul Bayt and the Sahaba, then quote my book where I attacked Ahlul Bayt and the Sahahaba, don't just make empty statements to assassinate my character with lies and slander.

 

SHIAMAN14 MY BOOK IS STILL BEGGING YOU TO QUOTE IT TO PROVE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT ME IN TERMS OF YOUR CLAIMS THAT I AM ATTACKING PROPHET MUHAMMAD, AHLUL BAYT, ALI, 12 IMAMS.

So we are both in agreement that the Prophet and the AhlulBayt never sinned, correct? They are indeed free from sin of any kind. If you are agreeable to this statement, then I apologize profusely and sincerely.

 

 

"AlKhidr offends and insults the Prophet and no sunni has stepped up to defend the Prophet"

 

Its funny how you as a Shia Muslim oppose the Sunni Muslims and now you are sending out a rallying cry to help you (the Shia Muslim).  You are a laughing joke.  Perhaps no Sunni Muslim came out against me because they view my book as Al Haqq that is DESTROYING the Shia sect school of thought.  Sunni Muslims do not teach nor believe Muhammad, Ahlul Bayt are infallible, this is only the Shia shirk teachings which is unfounded in the Holy Qur'aan.

A rallying cry would be, "please help me Sunni brethren." One of the options I listed was that they agree with you and thanks for re-hashing and confirming that you speak for all Sunnis. Clearly you were offended because I referenced Umar calling the Prophet delusional and of course Umar was the first Quranist.

 

 

I'm not surprised that you responded with this:

 

"I love the Messenger more because there is no message without him but I don't need to explain that to you."

 

You indicated that you love the Messenger more than Allah because there is no message without him.  Shiaman14 you are nothing but a MUSHRIK that worships Muhammad.  I have to correct you, there will be no Message without the Creator Allah.  Allah is independent of Muhammad and all the Prophets and Allah can get His message out any way He sees fit even without Muhammad if that was His will.   No wonder you believe that Muhammad, Ali, 12 Imams was infallible because only a MUSHRIK could be attracted to such shirk belief.

Could Allah have chosen an alternate method to deliver the Quran to us? Yes

Did Allah choose an alternate method to deliver Quran to us? No

Even saying that if Allah wanted to he could have delivered his message through other means is shirk:

[shakir 6:124] And when a communication comes to them they say: We will not believe till we are given the like of what Allah's messengers are given. Allah best knows where He places His message. There shall befall those who are guilty humiliation from Allah and severe chastisement because of what they planned.

[Pickthal 6:124] And when a token cometh unto them, they say: We will not believe till we are given that which Allah's messengers are given. Allah knoweth best with whom to place His message. Humiliation from Allah and heavy punishment will smite the guilty for their scheming.

[Yusufali 6:124] When there comes to them a sign (from Allah), They say: "We shall not believe until we receive one (exactly) like those received by Allah's messengers." Allah knoweth best where (and how) to carry out His mission. Soon will the wicked be overtaken by humiliation before Allah, and a severe punishment, for all their plots.

Every word that Muhammad uttered was from Allah whether it made it into the Quran or not:

[shakir 53:2] Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray;
[shakir 53:3] Nor does he speak out of desire.
[shakir 53:4] It is naught but revelation that is revealed,
[shakir 53:5] The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,
The above verses have no restriction around them so as a Quranist you of all people should be following every word of Muhammad saw. And because every word of Muhammad is from Allah, even the words outside the Quran, I love and obey Muhammad more than simply what is written in the Quran.
[shakir 59:7] Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil):
Accepting what Muhammad gives and rejecting what he forbids is our duty to Allah!
 

 

Shiaman14, I have never said that Muhammad sinned, I said in my book that he is not infallible and that he made mistakes.  Note mistakes are not synonymous for sin.  Also in my book I addressed all aspects of the Shia sectarian school of thought which you nor anyone in here has been able to refute.  No one as of yet proved anything in the Qur'aan that prove their Shia sect school of thought.  I'm glad that we are having this dialogue or debate so every one can see how incompetent Shia Muslims, Imams, Shaykhs, Muftis are in terms of proving their sect cult beliefs that are clearly unfounded in the Qur'aan.

 

Confirming we are in agreement that Muhammad never once sinned?

 

 

"Al Khidr - I would like to call a truce and offer my virtual hand of friendship"

 

My response to you is this, if you can prove what you say with evidence I will have to accept but if I prove what I say with evidence, then you will have to accept what I say.  And if you were honest so far you nor anybody in here has proven nothing to support the Shia School Of Thought which is a very sad case or situation.

You say if we can prove you accept the offer of friendship but then start with name calling and such so clearly you are more interested in an argument rather than a debate. So be it.

The offer is rescinded because Allah tells us not to make friends with unbelievers such as you:

[shakir 3:28] Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

 

This may be your first foray into debating with shias but I have been debating Quranists for a while now and Alhumdulillah every single one has been turned away. You do seem more verbose than most but that is simply your strategy - you write these really long color-coded, capitalized diatribes hoping people will get confused with your SHUFFLE DANCING but you havent fooled anyone. Mashallah, all brothers are trying to conduct the debate in a civil manner yet you insist on calling people racist or mushrik, etc. They have answered you sufficiently but with the seal upon your heart set by Allah - no blame on any of us for your lack of understanding.

 

I will keep it simple and ask yes/no questions in order to get past your trickery, So let's get started:

 

1) Confirm if the Prophet ever sinned?

2) Are the 2 mistakes pointed out by you the only mistakes the Prophet made?

3) Is the Prophet like you?

Sorry for my harshness of words but I am getting tired of being called a racist ad hominem and ad nauseam. Plus, personally attacking others has got to stop. It's unsightly and repugnant to read.

That's the MO of his kind. Your patience inshallah will be rewarded.

Edited by shiaman14

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