Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
AlKhidr

Shia Challenging Questions

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Sorry, just curious...is this your version of a Sola Scriptura situation, Gaius?

Very much so, think Sola Scriptura mixed with Nation of Islam propaganda from Louis Farrakhan, and you have a vague idea what I am dealing with. Sola Scriptura doesn't work, no matter if you are a Jew, Christian or Muslim, especially so in Christianity and Islam. Sola Scriptura Islam is referred to as Qur'aniyoon or Qur'an alone.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salam ALKhidr,

i am sorry i failed to download your book & keep up & thus wasting your time. I don't know what you are talking about, just want to know how do you pray & how you learnt that way of praying. Should you have answered that then pls simply direct me to that place.

ws

 

Salaam Mzwakhe

 

This information should answer your questions about Salaat

 

How to Perform Salaat Video and you can download the book

 

http://www.freewebs.com/salaat

 

or

http://www.salaat.webs.com

 

Also be aware of the false 3 Salaat Theory which I have exposed on my website below.  You will also find a lot of good information there to on Salaat:

 

EXPOSING THE 3 SALAAT THEORY

http://www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm

 

Below is also my website and I'm sure  you will find a lot of information there:

 

Tawhiyd

http://www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd

 

Or

 

http://www.tawhiyd.webs.com

Why be scared of the lion picture? Don't let it bother you, he thinks that if he intimidates you with that picture, you will begin to doubt your beliefs. A very cheap trick, straight from Iblis' bag of tricks. No sign of Khidr yet, I guess he figured that he was wasting his own time.

P.S. Khidr, if you are reading this, please answer Power's question. It's not that difficult and I am eager to see your answer.

 

Salaam Gaius

 

I think you spoke too soon.

 

I want everyone to note that I have challenged Gaius to meet my challenging question in my book on page 17 SHI'ITE MYTH 3 A LONG LONG TIME AGO and now he acts like this does not exist because he cannot prove that the Shia set of hadiyth books are a source of Islaam or the sunna of Rasuwl Allah.  Gaius just made one attempted and I refuted his foolishness and obviously taking the Qur'aan out of context in the link below:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235032954-shia-challenging-questions/?p=2849532

 

I read power's question and its light weight like you are.

 

I also think its funny how you want to associate Farrakhan who is the leader of the Nation of Islam as a racist but yet you talk about the white images the Shia Ulama created about Ali, the 12 Imams as artistic and act like there was no racist attempted behind it.  You are nothing but a hypocrite because you keep your mouth silent when it comes to this but your impulse is so quick to condemn and associate Black leadership like Farrakhan as a racist and try to associate my challenging question SHI'ITE MYTH 10 on the same level as racism when its the reverse where I'm exposing the racism of the Shia Ulama who is in position of power, thus any sincere person could never equate the two except for PSYCHOPATHIC RACIST LIKE YOUR SELF!!!!  I know you was a racist when you first opened up your mouth about SHI'ITE MYTH 10 and the false arguments you was trying to promote.

Salam, 

I do not attach value to any depiction no matter who they claim it to represent. 

 

 

There are white people with black ancestors and black people with white ancestors but although the racial features dissappeared because of mixed-marriages, the progeny-line stays the same. 

Prophet Ibrahim a.s. for example married Hajar? Were they from the same progeny?

In the end it's just about progeny. Not about race. 

 

No the verses tell us that Allah sent warners and messengers to all people from among their own midhst, speaking their own language.

So this indicates that warners and messengers can be from all races and languages.

 

Salaam  Skanderbeg

 

I want to let you know that I have not forgotten about you and I will definitely respond.  I have a question, did you read my book or not?  Also you have not answered my other question that I asked you which was since you believe that it was not Prophet Muhammad who was addressing the blind man, then tell me who was that person in the sura?

Salaam Alkhidr,

 

I must point out, that you have tip toed around the out -standing question that i had posted almost three weeks ago! Would you care to state what is delaying you from answering those question?

 

Now, returning back to verse 30:22 of the holy Quran.

 

(30:22) And of His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth31 and the diversity of your tongues and colours.32 Indeed there are Signs in this for the wise.

 

You responded to this verse by stating: Allah dose not give us date in the the Quran when other people started to evolve into different race.

 

I had more or less anticipated this kind of response from you. Now, going by your "Uncertainty of not knowing" Then therefore, i have every reason to reject your ambiguous supposition that every Prophet could have been dark in colour! It could be probable  that  Allah swt may had introduced "Diversity of colours within Prophets" but this is just purely speculation, because as you had stated: Allah dose not give us date in the the Quran when other people started to evolve into different race.

 

Therefore, your "Exaggerated Presumption" that "EVERY" Prophets are dark in nature, is not supported by the holy Quran!

 

 

You further promote your " Exaggerated Presumption" that all prophets had descended  from the same progeny hence them being dark in nature, really.

Quran dose not state this fact! this is your "FALSE" interpretation! let me turn the table and challenge you, where dose the Quran state that :"EVERY"  Prophet from the same progeny will-be black in colour? Just give me one single verse from the Quran which supports your false notion! 

 

Salaam Power

 

You and Gaius are just a like, racist who rejects the fact that all the Prophets are Black, I can tell by your slick talk and way of trying to present questions that you are a racist that cannot sustain the idea of Allah's Holy Prophets as being Black.  The Qur'aan makes it very clear that they were one race and not of different races.  I bet you probably have never ever bothered to address those white racist images the Shia Ulama created of Ali, the 12 Imams????   Soon I will comment on your lack of AQL here but I have a question, have you read my book or not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why be scared of the lion picture? Don't let it bother you, he thinks that if he intimidates you with that picture, you will begin to doubt your beliefs. A very cheap trick, straight from Iblis' bag of tricks. No sign of Khidr yet, I guess he figured that he was wasting his own time.

P.S. Khidr, if you are reading this, please answer Power's question. It's not that difficult and I am eager to see your answer.

Bro - I was being sarcastic about the lion picture. It was laughable. No sane and serious person would do that in their "pamphlet". :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MUHAMMAD IS NOT INFALLIBLE PART 2

 

As Salaamu Alaykum To All

 

Every body by now has read my post: SHI'ITE MYTH 6 which is challenging the Shia sect to prove with evidence in the Qur'aan about their belief of the 12th Imam who they say is the hidden or the invisible one that they are waiting for.  The Shi'ites act like this challenge does not exist.

 

I want to make this very clear, I believe Prophet Muhammad and all the Prophets were sinless when they walked this earth.  It is also very important that you realize that "sin" is not synonymous for "mistakes".  Sin and Mistakes are not the same thing and the reason why I'm highlighting this is because there were some people in here that confused the two. 

 

Now I want to further DESTROY the Shia shirk teachings of Prophet Muhammad being infallible.  Remember INFALLIBLE means: PERFECT, INCAPABLE OF ERROR and I must resound again: THERE IS NOTHING IN EXISTENCE (PHYSICAL OR SPIRITUAL REALM) WHO IS INFALLIBLE, EXCEPT OUR CREATOR Allah.  The following is a very very very controversial verse: Qur'aan 48:2 or Al-Fatt-h 2 that further destroys the Shia sect school of thought that teaches that Prophet Muhammad (who is a member of Ahlul Bayt) is infallible.  So-called Muslims scholars have interpreted this verse differently, some interpret this verse to refer to Muhammad's sins (past and future) and some interpret this verse to refer to Muhammad's faults (past and future) which Allah has forgave him for:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20translation%20

 

As we can see from this verse Allah forgave Prophet Muhammad of his faults from the past as well as the future.  The fact that Prophet Muhammad has committed faults (past and future) is clear evidence that He (Muhammad) is NOT infallible.  This is one of the verses that so-called Shia scholars try to conceal from their followers or mistranslate it to hope that their followers will just blindly accept their man-made interpretation.  Let me further expose this right here.  The following Shi'ite so-called scholars have mistranslated and misinterpreted this verse to support their so-called school of thought.  I want every body to read their distorted translation carefully and you will see that they attempted to place the faults or shortcomings (as they say in their translation) on the followers (which is plural) of Prophet Muhammad:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20Shia%20mistran

 

Notice that they mistranslated this verse to make you think its talking about Prophet Muhammad's followers (plural) and not Prophet Muhammad himself:

 

"God may grant protection for thy sake (AGAINST) THAT WHICH HATH GONE BEFORE OF THY (FOLLOWERS') SHORTCOMINGS"

 

I know those Muslims who are viewing this debate, who are sincerely seeking Al Haqq have caught what they did.  This verse in Arabic is speaking exclusively to Muhammad himself in the singular tense because of the Arabic words:

 

  لكLAKA which is in the singular tense and translated as "for you" or "your".

 

 

and     لكLAKA is also the suffix of   ZANBIKA ذَنْبِكَ which is translated as "your faults" again which is in the singular tense and not the plural.  Let me illustrate this with you when we give the Salaams.  Below is As Salaamu Alaykum which is in the plural tense or form because of the    لكم     at the end of the word:

 

السلام عليكم

 

Now if you want to say the Salaams in the singular tense or form, you will say it this way and notice that it also has the     لكLAKA  at the end of the word as you can see in the words that I pointed out in Qur'aan 48:2 that the Shia scholars mistranslated and misinterpreted:

 

السلام عليك

 

As you see with your own eyes, this is the Salaams in the singular tense or form, again which is the same tense or form that is used in Qur'aan 48:2 that I pointed out and this right here clearly exposes their Shia scholars for trying to mistranslate the Qur'aan to fool you by making you believe that Qur'aan 48:2 was referring to Muhammad's followers (which is plural and not singular).  Basic or elementary Arabic grammar has exposed the Shia scholars for mistranslating and misinterpreting the Qur'aan to support their shirk school of thought of making Muhammad (who is a member of Ahlul Bayt) infallible.  The Shia sect are just as guilty as the Jews for distorting the words, context of the scriptures:

 

Qur'aan 4:46

Among the Jews there are some who take the words out of their context and say: "We hear but we disobey" and "Your words are falling on deaf ears" and "Raa'ina (which is an ambiguous word meaning: "listen, may you  become deaf" or "be our shepherd") as they twist their tongues to slander the religion.  If only they had said (instead): "We hear and we obey" and "Hear us" and Unzurna ("Look upon us" or "watch over us" or "pay attention to us"), it would have been better for them and more proper; but Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

 

 

TRUTH IS TRUTH!!!!

Edited by AlKhidr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You and Gaius are just a like, racist who rejects the fact that all the Prophets are Black, I can tell by your slick talk and way of trying to present questions that you are a racist that cannot sustain the idea of Allah's Holy Prophets as being Black. The Qur'aan makes it very clear that they were one race and not of different races. I bet you probably have never ever bothered to address those white racist images the Shia Ulama created of Ali, the 12 Imams???? Soon I will comment on your lack of AQL here but I have a question, have you read my book or not?

Like I said, "the MO to-date has been to wait for a lot of us to post comments and then he picks and chooses little pieces and quotes them out of context and when all else fails you are either a racist or a mushrik. Its like playing a game with a kid who changes the rules of the game every time he loses just because its his ball."

I read your entire book and saw the big roaring lion - I was hoping it was a sketch so I could color it in. Anyway, I am stuck on the first section where you say the Prophet made mistakes (not sinned). So I need some clarification:

1) are we in agreement the Prophet never sinned?

2) are the only mistakes he made the 2 you listed?

3) are you like the Prophet with the exception that he was never meant to teach us the Quran but you are meant to teach it?

4) this is from before that you may have forgotten - you said the Quran was written down during the lifetime of the Prophet? Can you tell me where it is or can you provide a copy? I mean Allah does say He will protect the Quran so I am fairly certain you know where it is.

5) what kind of shoes do you wear for buck dancing? And when you dance with a buck, who leads - you or the buck? Also do you and the lion share the buck after the dance is over?

MUHAMMAD IS NOT INFALLIBLE PART 2

As Salaamu Alaykum To All

Every body by now has read my post: SHI'ITE MYTH 6 which is challenging the Shia sect to prove with evidence in the Qur'aan about their belief of the 12th Imam who they say is the hidden or the invisible one that they are waiting for. The Shi'ites act like this challenge does not exist.

I want to make this very clear, I believe Prophet Muhammad and all the Prophets were sinless when they walked this earth. It is also very important that you realize that "sin" is not synonymous for "mistakes". Sin and Mistakes are not the same thing and the reason why I'm highlighting this is because there were some people in here that confused the two.

Now I want to further DESTROY the Shia shirk teachings of Prophet Muhammad being infallible. Remember INFALLIBLE means: PERFECT, INCAPABLE OF ERROR and I must resound again: THERE IS NOTHING IN EXISTENCE (PHYSICAL OR SPIRITUAL REALM) WHO IS INFALLIBLE, EXCEPT OUR CREATOR Allah. The following is a very very very controversial verse: Qur'aan 48:2 or Al-Fatt-h 2 that further destroys the Shia sect school of thought that teaches that Prophet Muhammad (who is a member of Ahlul Bayt) is infallible. So-called Muslims scholars have interpreted this verse differently, some interpret this verse to refer to Muhammad's sins (past and future) and some interpret this verse to refer to Muhammad's faults (past and future) which Allah has forgave him for:

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20translation%20

As we can see from this verse Allah forgave Prophet Muhammad of his faults from the past as well as the future. The fact that Prophet Muhammad has committed faults (past and future) is clear evidence that He (Muhammad) is NOT infallible. This is one of the verses that so-called Shia scholars try to conceal from their followers or mistranslate it to hope that their followers will just blindly accept their man-made interpretation. Let me further expose this right here. The following Shi'ite so-called scholars have mistranslated and misinterpreted this verse to support their so-called school of thought. I want every body to read their distorted translation carefully and you will see that they attempted to place the faults or shortcomings (as they say in their translation) on the followers (which is plural) of Prophet Muhammad:

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20Shia%20mistran

Notice that they mistranslated this verse to make you think its talking about Prophet Muhammad's followers (plural) and not Prophet Muhammad himself:

"God may grant protection for thy sake (AGAINST) THAT WHICH HATH GONE BEFORE OF THY (FOLLOWERS') SHORTCOMINGS"

I know those Muslims who are viewing this debate, who are sincerely seeking Al Haqq have caught what they did. This verse in Arabic is speaking exclusively to Muhammad himself in the singular tense because of the Arabic words:

لكLAKA which is in the singular tense and translated as "for you" or "your".

and لكLAKA is also the suffix of ZANBIKA ذَنْبِكَ which is translated as "your faults" again which is in the singular tense and not the plural. Let me illustrate this with you when we give the Salaams. Below is As Salaamu Alaykum which is in the plural tense or form because of the لكم at the end of the word:

السلام عليكم

Now if you want to say the Salaams in the singular tense or form, you will say it this way and notice that it also has the لكLAKA at the end of the word as you can see in the words that I pointed out in Qur'aan 48:2 that the Shia scholars mistranslated and misinterpreted:

السلام عليك

As you see with your own eyes, this is the Salaams in the singular tense or form, again which is the same tense or form that is used in Qur'aan 48:2 that I pointed out and this right here clearly exposes their Shia scholars for trying to mistranslate the Qur'aan to fool you by making you believe that Qur'aan 48:2 was referring to Muhammad's followers (which is plural and not singular). Basic or elementary Arabic grammar has exposed the Shia scholars for mistranslating and misinterpreting the Qur'aan to support their shirk school of thought of making Muhammad (who is a member of Ahlul Bayt) infallible. The Shia sect are just as guilty as the Jews for distorting the words, context of the scriptures:

Qur'aan 4:46

Among the Jews there are some who take the words out of their context and say: "We hear but we disobey" and "Your words are falling on deaf ears" and "Raa'ina (which is an ambiguous word meaning: "listen, may you become deaf" or "be our shepherd") as they twist their tongues to slander the religion. If only they had said (instead): "We hear and we obey" and "Hear us" and Unzurna ("Look upon us" or "watch over us" or "pay attention to us"), it would have been better for them and more proper; but Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

TRUTH IS TRUTH!!!!

Clearly verse 48:2 is talking about the Prophet. I am glad that Allah decided to show and keep the Prophet on the right path ONLY after 17 years of service to Islam:

Shakir 48:2] That Allah may forgive your community their past faults and those to follow and complete His favor to you and keep you on a right way,

[Pickthal 48:2] That Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favour unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path,

[Yusufali 48:2] That Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight path.

If the Prophet was not on the right path till now, should we not remove all the chapters from the Quran up until this point?

Also, the Quran must be contradicting itself again:

Shakir 53:1] I swear by the star when it goes down.

[shakir 53:2] Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray;

[shakir 53:3] Nor does he speak out of desire.

[shakir 53:4] It is naught but revelation that is revealed,

[shakir 53:5] The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,

[shakir 53:6] The Lord of Strength; so he attained completion,

I am sure we will get a long response about how the interpretation is wrong here....

The seal upon the heart is getting stronger.

Edited by shiaman14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam Mzwakhe

This information should answer your questions about Salaat

How to Perform Salaat Video and you can download the book

http://www.freewebs.com/salaat

or

http://www.salaat.webs.com

Also be aware of the false 3 Salaat Theory which I have exposed on my website below. You will also find a lot of good information there to on Salaat:

EXPOSING THE 3 SALAAT THEORY

http://www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm

Below is also my website and I'm sure you will find a lot of information there:

Tawhiyd

http://www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd

Or

http://www.tawhiyd.webs.com

Salaam Gaius

I think you spoke too soon.

I want everyone to note that I have challenged Gaius to meet my challenging question in my book on page 17 SHI'ITE MYTH 3 A LONG LONG TIME AGO and now he acts like this does not exist because he cannot prove that the Shia set of hadiyth books are a source of Islaam or the sunna of Rasuwl Allah. Gaius just made one attempted and I refuted his foolishness and obviously taking the Qur'aan out of context in the link below:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235032954-shia-challenging-questions/?p=2849532

I read power's question and its light weight like you are.

I also think its funny how you want to associate Farrakhan who is the leader of the Nation of Islam as a racist but yet you talk about the white images the Shia Ulama created about Ali, the 12 Imams as artistic and act like there was no racist attempted behind it. You are nothing but a hypocrite because you keep your mouth silent when it comes to this but your impulse is so quick to condemn and associate Black leadership like Farrakhan as a racist and try to associate my challenging question SHI'ITE MYTH 10 on the same level as racism when its the reverse where I'm exposing the racism of the Shia Ulama who is in position of power, thus any sincere person could never equate the two except for PSYCHOPATHIC RACIST LIKE YOUR SELF!!!! I know you was a racist when you first opened up your mouth about SHI'ITE MYTH 10 and the false arguments you was trying to promote.

Salaam Skanderbeg

I want to let you know that I have not forgotten about you and I will definitely respond. I have a question, did you read my book or not? Also you have not answered my other question that I asked you which was since you believe that it was not Prophet Muhammad who was addressing the blind man, then tell me who was that person in the sura?

Salaam Power

You and Gaius are just a like, racist who rejects the fact that all the Prophets are Black, I can tell by your slick talk and way of trying to present questions that you are a racist that cannot sustain the idea of Allah's Holy Prophets as being Black. The Qur'aan makes it very clear that they were one race and not of different races. I bet you probably have never ever bothered to address those white racist images the Shia Ulama created of Ali, the 12 Imams???? Soon I will comment on your lack of AQL here but I have a question, have you read my book or not?

Salaam alaikun,

I will repeat this again, talking down to others and calling them mushrik or racist will not come around to your "correct" beliefs of Qur'aniyoon.(If they were correct, I would have remained Qur'anist instead of becoming Shi'i.) First I was a racist, now all sudden I'm a psychopathic racist, keep up with making more lies, they're certainly colorful. If this is because I have the spoken the truth that the paintings of the Imams don't look anything like a white person you claim, then I am glad that I don't know you in person and to be honest, the conspiracy to hide the "truth" that they were black is a little out there, you know? And just because I called the paintings artistic, doesn't mean I like it nor does that say I am a racist or a psychopath. Look, it's simple, answer Power's question and move on instead. 30:22, "And of His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your tongues and colours. Indeed there are Signs in this for the wise."

1.What is the context of this verse?

2. What is meant by "diversity of your tongues and colors", according to you, all of the Prophets (saws) and Imams (as) were all black?

3. Should the prophets, imams and messengers be exempt from the "diversity of your tongues and colors". Using your logic and the Qur'an, please explain this to me in full detail and why Allah specifically choose the Nubian race (Your own words,not mine) to be our prophets if you are honest and sincere.

4. If you agree that the Prophets (saws),Imams (as) and messengers are not exempt from the "diversity of your tongues and colors", then what does hamaa' salsal mean? Clearly it must mean something else other than black skin tone, no? Heaven forbid, that I am right.

P.S.I got a news flash for you, Banu Quraysh were Arabs descended from Ibrahim (saw) and Ismail (saw) and that was the tribe of Muhammad (saw) and Ali (as) This tribe was neither black like you claim nor white like the lie you accuse our ulama of perpetrating, but an Arabian tribe of Semetic origin like the Himyar in Yemen or the Hebrew of Banu Isra'il.

5. If you don't, please explain 30:22 and 15:26 in more depth and in light of each other and how you justify your beliefs because the Qur'an never contradicts itself. Again, I am eager for your reply, preferably without any personal attacks.

Again,the only racist here I see is you, Khidr with your obsession with black skin and it is very psychopathic of you to personally attack me and others like the way you do. I can tell you this, nobody is becoming a Qur'anist because of you. The way you treat and talk to others is the worst I ever seen on Shiachat. You can't attract flies with vinegar, what makes you think you will attract people with harsh words?

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam Mzwakhe

 

This information should answer your questions about Salaat

 

How to Perform Salaat Video and you can download the book

 

http://www.freewebs.com/salaat

 

or

http://www.salaat.webs.com

 

Also be aware of the false 3 Salaat Theory which I have exposed on my website below.  You will also find a lot of good information there to on Salaat:

 

EXPOSING THE 3 SALAAT THEORY

http://www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm

 

Below is also my website and I'm sure  you will find a lot of information there:

 

Tawhiyd

http://www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd

 

Or

 

http://www.tawhiyd.webs.com

 

Salaam Gaius

 

I think you spoke too soon.

 

I want everyone to note that I have challenged Gaius to meet my challenging question in my book on page 17 SHI'ITE MYTH 3 A LONG LONG TIME AGO and now he acts like this does not exist because he cannot prove that the Shia set of hadiyth books are a source of Islaam or the sunna of Rasuwl Allah.  Gaius just made one attempted and I refuted his foolishness and obviously taking the Qur'aan out of context in the link below:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235032954-shia-challenging-questions/?p=2849532

 

I read power's question and its light weight like you are.

 

I also think its funny how you want to associate Farrakhan who is the leader of the Nation of Islam as a racist but yet you talk about the white images the Shia Ulama created about Ali, the 12 Imams as artistic and act like there was no racist attempted behind it.  You are nothing but a hypocrite because you keep your mouth silent when it comes to this but your impulse is so quick to condemn and associate Black leadership like Farrakhan as a racist and try to associate my challenging question SHI'ITE MYTH 10 on the same level as racism when its the reverse where I'm exposing the racism of the Shia Ulama who is in position of power, thus any sincere person could never equate the two except for PSYCHOPATHIC RACIST LIKE YOUR SELF!!!!  I know you was a racist when you first opened up your mouth about SHI'ITE MYTH 10 and the false arguments you was trying to promote.

 

Salaam  Skanderbeg

 

I want to let you know that I have not forgotten about you and I will definitely respond.  I have a question, did you read my book or not?  Also you have not answered my other question that I asked you which was since you believe that it was not Prophet Muhammad who was addressing the blind man, then tell me who was that person in the sura?

 

Salaam Power

 

You and Gaius are just a like, racist who rejects the fact that all the Prophets are Black, I can tell by your slick talk and way of trying to present questions that you are a racist that cannot sustain the idea of Allah's Holy Prophets as being Black.  The Qur'aan makes it very clear that they were one race and not of different races.  I bet you probably have never ever bothered to address those white racist images the Shia Ulama created of Ali, the 12 Imams????   Soon I will comment on your lack of AQL here but I have a question, have you read my book or not?

 

Salaam Alkhidr

 

You have stated in your book that: DNA proves we all came from Africa; can you name all those prophets who lived in africa? And then name all those Prophet that  lived in the middle east? And also from Prophet Adam (as) to Prophet Mohammad  (pbuh) what was the time gap? Furthermore, can you also state how many different tribes, nations also appeared from the time of Prophet Adam (as) to Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)?

 

And why do you need Dr Joel Freeman to prove that DNA had  originated from Africa? Are you not capable of using the Quran alone to prove your point? Is this not duplicity on your part, to use a non Muslim scientist to corroborate your point of view! 

 

I would like to see from the Quran where is this permitted?

Edited by power

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

I absolutely agree that everything is in the Quran.

As both of us know Quran comes down with Furqan (criterion).

Now I have a simple question, I would like to ask purely from the Quran without the forqan,

What kind of food is halal for us according to this verse from your perspective:

You are forbidden (to consume) the dead, blood and the flesh of swine; also flesh dedicated to any other than Allah, the flesh of strangled (animals) and of those beaten, that which is killed by falling, gored to death, mangled by beasts of prey, unless you find it (still alive) and slaughter it; also of animals sacrificed on stones (to idols).

(you are forbidden) to seek division by the arrows, that is debauchery. those who disbelieve have this day despaired of your religion. do not fear them, but fear me. this day i have perfected your religion for you and completed my favor to you. i have approved islam to be your religion.

(as for) he who does not intend to commit a sin but is constrained by hunger to eat of what is forbidden, then surely Allah is forgiving, merciful. (3)

Would appreciate your input of what food do you consider halal for yourself and what food haram from this verse?

Thank you

Edited by tendersoul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I have a genuine question in all seriousness.

 

A Quranist believes in ONLY the Quran and nothing else - no outside sources or reference for anything .

 

So when a Quranist reads any book other than the Quran, is it or should it not be considered shirk? I would think even something as simple as reading the newspaper would be shirk because it is NOT Quran. Or lets say someone writes a "pamphlet", would I be even allowed to read it if I was a Quranist? Does the Quran even allow someone to write a "pamphlet"?

 

Am I being to simplistic?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

MUHAMMAD IS NOT INFALLIBLE PART 2

 

As Salaamu Alaykum To All

 

Every body by now has read my post: SHI'ITE MYTH 6 which is challenging the Shia sect to prove with evidence in the Qur'aan about their belief of the 12th Imam who they say is the hidden or the invisible one that they are waiting for.  The Shi'ites act like this challenge does not exist.

 

I want to make this very clear, I believe Prophet Muhammad and all the Prophets were sinless when they walked this earth.  It is also very important that you realize that "sin" is not synonymous for "mistakes".  Sin and Mistakes are not the same thing and the reason why I'm highlighting this is because there were some people in here that confused the two. 

 

Now I want to further DESTROY the Shia shirk teachings of Prophet Muhammad being infallible.  Remember INFALLIBLE means: PERFECT, INCAPABLE OF ERROR and I must resound again: THERE IS NOTHING IN EXISTENCE (PHYSICAL OR SPIRITUAL REALM) WHO IS INFALLIBLE, EXCEPT OUR CREATOR Allah.  The following is a very very very controversial verse: Qur'aan 48:2 or Al-Fatt-h 2 that further destroys the Shia sect school of thought that teaches that Prophet Muhammad (who is a member of Ahlul Bayt) is infallible.  So-called Muslims scholars have interpreted this verse differently, some interpret this verse to refer to Muhammad's sins (past and future) and some interpret this verse to refer to Muhammad's faults (past and future) which Allah has forgave him for:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20translation%20

 

As we can see from this verse Allah forgave Prophet Muhammad of his faults from the past as well as the future.  The fact that Prophet Muhammad has committed faults (past and future) is clear evidence that He (Muhammad) is NOT infallible.  This is one of the verses that so-called Shia scholars try to conceal from their followers or mistranslate it to hope that their followers will just blindly accept their man-made interpretation.  Let me further expose this right here.  The following Shi'ite so-called scholars have mistranslated and misinterpreted this verse to support their so-called school of thought.  I want every body to read their distorted translation carefully and you will see that they attempted to place the faults or shortcomings (as they say in their translation) on the followers (which is plural) of Prophet Muhammad:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20Shia%20mistran

 

Notice that they mistranslated this verse to make you think its talking about Prophet Muhammad's followers (plural) and not Prophet Muhammad himself:

 

 

TRUTH IS TRUTH!!!!

 

Here is the entire surah. I have highlighted "you" in red and Messenger in "green". It is clearly evident that the "you" being referred to in the Surah is not the Prophet. He is being referred to as the Messenger:

 

[Shakir 48:1] Surely We have given to you a clear victory

[shakir 48:2] That Allah may forgive your community their past faults and those to follow and complete His favor to you and keep you on a right way,

[shakir 48:3] And that Allah might help you with a mighty help.

[shakir 48:4] He it is Who sent down tranquillity into the hearts of the believers that they might have more of faith added to their faith-- and Allah's are the hosts of the heavens and the earth, and Allah is Knowing, Wise--

[shakir 48:5] That He may cause the believing men and the believing women to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow to abide therein and remove from them their evil; and that is a grand achievement with Allah

[shakir 48:6] And (that) He may punish the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women, and the polytheistic men and the polytheistic women, the entertainers of evil thoughts about Allah. On them is the evil turn, and Allah is wroth with them and has cursed them and prepared hell for them, and evil is the resort.

[shakir 48:7] And Allah's are the hosts of the heavens and the earth; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

[shakir 48:8] Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shakir 48:9] That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

[shakir 48:10] Surely those who swear allegiance to you do but swear allegiance to Allah; the hand of Allah is above their hands. Therefore whoever breaks (his faith), he breaks it only to the injury of his own soul, and whoever fulfills what he has covenanted with Allah, He will grant him a mighty reward.

[shakir 48:11] Those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind will say to you: Our property and our families kept us busy, so ask forgiveness for us. They say with their tongues what is not in their hearts. Say: Then who can control anything for you from Allah if He intends to do you harm or if He intends to do you good; nay, Allah is Aware of what you do:

[shakir 48:12] Nay! you rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and you thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shakir 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers.

[shakir 48:14] And Allah's is the kingdom. of the heavens and the earth; He forgives whom He pleases and punishes whom He pleases, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[shakir 48:15] Those who are left behind will say when you set forth for the gaining of acquisitions: Allow us (that) we may follow you. They desire to change the word of Allah. Say: By no means shall you follow us; thus did Allah say before. But they will say: Nay! you are jealous of us. Nay! they do not understand but a little.

[shakir 48:16] Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.

[shakir 48:17] There is no harm in the blind, nor is there any harm in the lame, nor is there any harm in the sick (if they do not go forth); and whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, He will cause him to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, and whoever turns back, He will punish him with a painful punishment.

[shakir 48:18] Certainly Allah was well pleased with the believers when they swore allegiance to you under the tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, so He sent down tranquillity on them and rewarded them with a near victory,

[shakir 48:19] And many acquisitions which they will take; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

[shakir 48:20] Allah promised you many acquisitions which you will take, then He hastened on this one for you and held back the hands of men from you, and that it may be a sign for the believers and that He may guide you on a right path.

[shakir 48:21] And others which you have not yet been able to achieve Allah has surely encompassed them, and Allah has power over all things.

[shakir 48:22] And if those who disbelieve fight with you, they would certainly turn (their) backs, then they would not find any protector or a helper.

[shakir 48:23] Such has been the course of Allah that has indeed run before, and you shall not find a change in Allah's course.

[shakir 48:24] And He it is Who held back their hands from you and your hands from them in the valley of Mecca after He had given you victory over them; and Allah is Seeing what you do.

[shakir 48:25] It is they who disbelieved and turned you away from the Sacred Mosque and (turned off) the offering withheld from arriving at its destined place; and were it not for the believing men and the believing women, whom, not having known, you might have trodden down, and thus something hateful might have afflicted you on their account without knowledge-- so that Allah may cause to enter into His mercy whomsoever He pleases; had they been widely separated one from another, We would surely have punished those who disbelieved from among them with a painful punishment.

[shakir 48:26] When those who disbelieved harbored in their hearts (feelings of) disdain, the disdain of (the days of) ignorance, but Allah sent down His tranquillity on His Messenger and on the believers, and made them keep the word of guarding (against evil), and they were entitled to it and worthy of it; and Allah is Cognizant of all things.

[shakir 48:27] Certainly Allah had shown to His Messenger the vision with truth: you shall most certainly enter the Sacred Mosque, if Allah pleases, in security, (some) having their heads shaved and (others) having their hair cut, you shall not fear, but He knows what you do not know, so He brought about a near victory before that.

[shakir 48:28] He it is Who sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness.

[shakir 48:29] Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I have a genuine question in all seriousness.

A Quranist believes in ONLY the Quran and nothing else - no outside sources or reference for anything .

So when a Quranist reads any book other than the Quran, is it or should it not be considered shirk? I would think even something as simple as reading the newspaper would be shirk because it is NOT Quran. Or lets say someone writes a "pamphlet", would I be even allowed to read it if I was a Quranist? Does the Quran even allow someone to write a "pamphlet"?

Am I being to simplistic?

I know that this was probably meant for Khidr but from my experience as a Qur'anist, that is usually the case with Qur'an aloners but some Qur'anists also follow Rashad Khalifa and his teachings of a code within the Qur'an based on the number 19 and Khalifa consider himself a "prophet" because of this discovery. His followers are called the Submitters or Code 19'ers, so there is some of difference of opinion in the Qur'aniyoon. To say that all Qur'anist believe only the Qur'an is partially true. It's all a matter who you ask. I hope this helps you a little bit. Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Shi'a of Ali need to start realising that people with AlKhidr's (honestly change your name to khidr because you're not even close to the purity of Al-Khidr (a.s)) intentions are not worthy of debate.

The best reply to a fool is silence - Imam Ali (a.s).

It is egotistical of us to go all the way to prove we are right to a person who's mind is as shut as a walnut. It's like trying to break a walnut with only your fingers. Delicacy with these fools don't work. And using a nutcracker is forceful and unmerciful; not our ethical approach.

Throwing logic and evidence to someone who already locked his mind and threw the key in the ocean is like throwing perfectly edible food into the trash; wasted effort.

And to anyone who's going to call me out and tell me "no, you should always debate" look at most of his replies and how he goes out of his ways to insult the Shi'a beliefs ("myths" is what he called our beliefs).

You have an excellent point, I guess it is futile debating with Khidr but I don't know, I don't like it when people try to twist Qur'an and make sweeping assumptions and force it down our throats and belittle us for not accepting the twisted interpretations. I don't like the insults he said about the Prophet Muhammad (saws) either. Anyway, this guy is going to be steamed at me and is probably going to go on a long, incoherent lecture about my last post to him. Funny how he calls himself a servant of Islam in the last page of his pamphlet; Last I heard, a servant of Islam is gentle in speech, patient with those who disagree with him and knowledgeable in Islam. I was shown the complete opposite instead when dealing with him. Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Shi'a of Ali need to start realising that people with AlKhidr's (honestly change your name to khidr because you're not even close to the purity of Al-Khidr (a.s)) intentions are not worthy of debate. 

 

The best reply to a fool is silence - Imam Ali (a.s).

 

It is egotistical of us to go all the way to prove we are right to a person who's mind is as shut as a walnut. It's like trying to break a walnut with only your fingers. Delicacy with these fools don't work. And using a nutcracker is forceful and unmerciful; not our ethical approach.

 

Throwing logic and evidence to someone who already locked his mind and threw the key in the ocean is like throwing perfectly edible food into the trash; wasted effort.

 

And to anyone who's going to call me out and tell me "no, you should always debate" look at most of his replies and how he goes out of his ways to insult the Shi'a beliefs ("myths" is what he called our beliefs).

Salaam brother,

 

You are absolutely correct. Moreover, the way the pamphlet is written with colors and UPPERCASE statements and pic of lions and imams - it is nothing but a farce.

 

However some people need to be put in their place. In trying to insult the Prophet and the AhlulBayt, he actually ended up showing his true colors thanks to the hard work of the brothers/sisters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam, 

I do not attach value to any depiction no matter who they claim it to represent. 

 

 

There are white people with black ancestors and black people with white ancestors but although the racial features dissappeared because of mixed-marriages, the progeny-line stays the same. 

Prophet Ibrahim a.s. for example married Hajar? Were they from the same progeny?

In the end it's just about progeny. Not about race. 

 

No the verses tell us that Allah sent warners and messengers to all people from among their own midhst, speaking their own language.

So this indicates that warners and messengers can be from all races and languages.

 

Salaam Skanderbeg

 

I have asked you some questions and you never answered them.  Since you do not believe that the person who was addressing the blind man was Muhammad, then tell us who this person is????  I am fully aware of what your Shia hadiyths says about that sura, I was hoping that you was going to try to use it but I see you are smart enough not to fall into that trap.

 

You never answered my question when I asked you if you read my book or not?

 

Now notice that you said this:

 

"No the verses tell us that Allah sent warners and messengers to all people from among their own midhst, speaking their own language.  So this indicates that warners and messengers can be from all races and languages."

 

Its important that I highlight the fact that I never said "warners and messengers" are all Black.  I challenge you to quote me in my book and give the page number where I have said this!!!!  What you are deceptively doing is building an argument based on a false premise that you innovated.  When a foundation is build on deception & falsehood, it will crumble.  Skanderbeg I have said all the Prophets are Black and belong to the same progeny, I never said all warners and messengers.  Are you not aware that there are distinctions/differences between Prophets, Messengers, Warners?  All messengers, warners are  not Prophets.  Let me repeat, all messengers, warners are not Prophets but all Prophets are Messengers and Warners.

 

You have asked me about Hajar and if she is the same progeny as Abraham.  I can understand why you may say or raise this question because you are probably looking at her as an Egyptian.  There is a great game that has been played upon us with labels created by man, particularly the European man who has conquered and enslaved this entire planet because he renamed every body, including their ethnicity, race, and country that we live in today, thus we grow up with an improper understanding of history.  The word "Egyptian" is not their original name because its a GREEK word that came much later in time and history.  The original people who built that civilization including the pyramids are the Nubians who are mentioned in this article:

 

New%20York%20Times.JPG

 

 

The Nubians never referred to themselves as Egyptians.  About your question, Yes Hagar is of the same bloodline, lineage, progeny as Abraham.

 

Now why don't you answer my questions that I have asked you.

You have an excellent point, I guess it is futile debating with Khidr but I don't know, I don't like it when people try to twist Qur'an and make sweeping assumptions and force it down our throats and belittle us for not accepting the twisted interpretations. I don't like the insults he said about the Prophet Muhammad (saws) either. Anyway, this guy is going to be steamed at me and is probably going to go on a long, incoherent lecture about my last post to him. Funny how he calls himself a servant of Islam in the last page of his pamphlet; Last I heard, a servant of Islam is gentle in speech, patient with those who disagree with him and knowledgeable in Islam. I was shown the complete opposite instead when dealing with him.

 

All you and Ibn Al-Shahid is doing is just crying, responding with EMOTIONS rather then effectively going inside Al Qur'aan and pulling up the evidence to refute my CHALLENGING questions and prove your Shia sect school of thought.  Remember Gaius, what you said in your very first post.  If you cannot handle the heat of debate (which is an atmosphere not for the soft hearted, the sensitive ones) then why did you join in and participate.  No one here is forcing you to participate in this debate we are having.

 

In closing with you and Ibn Al-Shahid and the rest, there has not been no Shia Muslim that has been able to step forward and refute my arguments nor prove the Shia school of thought and every body who has viewed this post can see this.  I have presented evidence that Muhammad is not infallible, I also presented a new challenging question about the Shi'ite belief of the 12th Imam whom they say is the hidden or invisible one and no one in here touched it.  People in here want to act like it does not exist and ask me flimsy questions or make snide remarks that are not even related to this post.

Qur'anists don't back any caliph, they reject any successor, including Imam Ali (as), Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman. It wouldn't make sense for a Qur'anist to back Mu'awiyah either. As for the actual trace to their history, I was under the impression that the Qur'aniyoon is a modern movement seeking to purify Islam from perceived impurities and corruptions from ulema and hadiths. The people who support this movement tend to be converts to Islam and people who wrong-headedly think that Islam should be reformed for the modern day and it's challenges like the way Christianity was in the 1500-1600's; Although, during the time of the Umayyads, there was a Mu'tazilite man named Ibrahim an-Nazzam who taught that only the Qur'an and reason were legit sources of Islamic law. In this aspect, an-Nazzam is the ideological and spiritual ancestor of the Qur'an aloners.

 

Salaam Gaius

 

On October 31, 2015 you have said:

 

"there was a Mu'tazilite man named Ibrahim an-Nazzam who taught that only the Qur'an and reason were legit sources of Islamic law. In this aspect, an-Nazzam is the ideological and spiritual ancestor of the Qur'an aloners."

 

This is not correct, you are 100% wrong, Prophet Muhammad was the first person to follow Qur'aan ALONE.

Salaam Shiaman14

 

 

You should be ashamed of your self for saying this:

 

"Here is the entire surah. I have highlighted "you" in red and Messenger in "green". It is clearly evident that the "you" being referred to in the Surah is not the Prophet. He is being referred to as the Messenger"

 

Anybody with an iota of intelligence knows for a fact that Qur'aan 48:2 is referring to Prophet Muhammad and no body else.  This is a perfect example of how a belief, particularly in the religious context can enslave your mind and causes you to reject Al Haqq.  The Shia translator of the Qur'aan (the commentary that you used in your previous posts) even says this verse refers to Muhammad, it just that he got caught by Al Khidr for mistranslated the Qur'aan to try to make it look like (Qur'aan 48:2) was referring to the faults of the followers (plural) of Muhammad and not the faults of Muhammad himself.  This is the first sentence of your Shia translator of the Qur'aan says: "(SO) THAT (O' OUR APOSTLE MUHAMMAD!)" and again below is his mistranslation of the verse:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20Shia%20mistran

 

Below is the correct translation of this verse:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20translation%20

 

Shiaman14 why are you being deceptive about this Sura 48 (Al-Fatt-h) and by trying to make it appear that it does not refer to Muhammad.  In the Qur'aan, when it refers to Muhammad, it does not always say "Messenger", the Qur'aan can also address him as "You", for example this is the translation that you used:

 

[shakir 48:8] Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

 

The word "you" in this verse refers to Prophet Muhammad and again anybody can read this sura and see right through your lies.  Is this all the Shia Muslims can come with.  We have a lot of views of this debate and every body can see how the Shi'ite Muslims are at a state of lost when it comes to Al Khidr because no one and I must repeat no one has proven any of the catechisms of the Shia sectarian school of thought that has been challenged by me and no one has refuted any of my CHALLENGING questions in my book nor in this post, and instead of doing this, you are asking me stupid questions like do I or Qur'aan alone Muslims only read the Qur'aan and nothing else.  I have never met any one who follows Qur'aan alone that only reads the Qur'aan and nothing else, such thought doesn't even sound realistic.  You are wasting time by asking stupid questions on the level rather then use that time an energy to refute my CHALLENGING questions in my book or in this post.  FACTS ARE FACTS and we got too many egos in here that Al Khidr has shattered.

 

For those who are sincerely seeking truth, you can go to my new post where I exposed mut'ah (temporary marriage)

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235033487-shia-mutah-temporary-marriage-exposed/?p=2854818

Edited by AlKhidr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam Skanderbeg

I have asked you some questions and you never answered them. Since you do not believe that the person who was addressing the blind man was Muhammad, then tell us who this person is???? I am fully aware of what your Shia hadiyths says about that sura, I was hoping that you was going to try to use it but I see you are smart enough not to fall into that trap.

You never answered my question when I asked you if you read my book or not?

Now notice that you said this:

"No the verses tell us that Allah sent warners and messengers to all people from among their own midhst, speaking their own language. So this indicates that warners and messengers can be from all races and languages."

Its important that I highlight the fact that I never said "warners and messengers" are all Black. I challenge you to quote me in my book and give the page number where I have said this!!!! What you are deceptively doing is building an argument based on a false premise that you innovated. When a foundation is build on deception & falsehood, it will crumble. Skanderbeg I have said all the Prophets are Black, I never said all warners and messengers. Are you not aware that there are distinctions/differences between Prophets, Messengers, Warners? All messengers, warners are not Prophets. Let me repeat, all messengers, warners are not Prophets but all Prophets are Messengers and Warners.

You have asked me about Hajar and if she is the same progeny as Abraham. I can understand why you may say or raise this question because you are probably looking at her as an Egyptian. There is a great game that has been played upon us with labels created by man, particularly the European man who has conquered and enslaved this entire planet because he renamed every body, including their ethnicity, race, and country that we live in today, thus we grow up with an improper understanding of history. The word "Egyptian" is not their original name because its a GREEK word that came much later in time and history. The original people who built that civilization including the pyramids are the Nubians who are mentioned in this article:

New%20York%20Times.JPG

The Nubians never referred to themselves as Egyptians. About your question, Yes Hagar is of the same bloodline, lineage, progeny as Abraham.

Now why don't you answer my questions that I have asked you.

All you and Ibn Al-Shahid is doing is just crying, responding with EMOTIONS rather then effectively going inside Al Qur'aan and pulling up the evidence to refute my CHALLENGING questions and prove your Shia sect school of thought. Remember Gaius, what you said in your very first post. If you cannot handle the heat of debate (which is an atmosphere not for the soft hearted, the sensitive ones) then why did you join in and participate. No one here is forcing you to participate in this debate we are having.

In closing with you and Ibn Al-Shahid and the rest, there has not been no Shia Muslim that has been able to step forward and refute my arguments nor prove the Shia school of thought and every body who has viewed this post can see this. I have presented evidence that Muhammad is not infallible, I also presented a new challenging question about the Shi'ite belief of the 12th Imam whom they say is the hidden or invisible one and no one in here touched it. People in here want to act like it does not exist and ask me flimsy questions or make snide remarks that are not even related to this post.

Hmmm, well how do you specifically know that it was a white man who said that Lady Hajar was an Egyptian? How do you know that she was in fact, as you claim, a black woman. Islam and black supremacy don't mix, nor does insulting us bring us to an understanding with you. The reason why I participated in this debate was to put a stop to this tomfoolery about all of the Prophets (saws) being black, they simply weren't black, each messenger and prophet was assigned to their own people (30:22) This is in the Qur'an and you said it best, take it or leave it but do not deny or dispute with Al Haqq. Nobody has given you a satisfactory answer because you didn't really ask questions,that is the key. You have very little understanding of our faith, so you do what most people who don't understand do, use personal attacks on others as a smokescreen to cover up your own ignorance and deflect blame on your shortcomings by accusing us of being racist, psychopathic, mushrik, etc. Only you got emotional when I didn't agree with you, insults? That's just pure emotional tactics, stuff to use in desperation; That's when you lost. Quite frankly, if I was soft-hearted, I believe I would have given up around the time you started accusing me being a racist, so no sir, I am not soft hearted. And I am saying all of this in most gentle way possible. That's if you don't want to learn or don't particularly care for our beliefs but if you think that you have exposed any anything in the Shia school of thought, you are unfortunately very sorely mistaken. The only thing you have done is bully us and make baseless claims. Remember, no servant of Islam does this to others, Muhammad brought people to Islam with patience and gentleness in speech. From an ex - Quranist to a Quranist: Please seek a different path, brother. What you told us about your beliefs and what I saw in your pamphlet is a far cry from the reality of Islam. If you continue this path, your heart will only get harder. I know, I been there and I deeply regret being a Qur'anist. Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should be ashamed of your self for saying this:

 

"Here is the entire surah. I have highlighted "you" in red and Messenger in "green". It is clearly evident that the "you" being referred to in the Surah is not the Prophet. He is being referred to as the Messenger"

 

Anybody with an iota of intelligence knows for a fact that Qur'aan 48:2 is referring to Prophet Muhammad and no body else.  This is a perfect example of how a belief, particularly in the religious context can enslave your mind and causes you to reject Al Haqq.  The Shia translator of the Qur'aan (the commentary that you used in your previous posts) even says this verse refers to Muhammad, it just that he got caught by Al Khidr for mistranslated the Qur'aan to try to make it look like (Qur'aan 48:2) was referring to the faults of the followers (plural) of Muhammad and not the faults of Muhammad himself.  This is the first sentence of your Shia translator of the Qur'aan says: "(SO) THAT (O' OUR APOSTLE MUHAMMAD!)" and again below is his mistranslation of the verse:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20Shia%20mistran

 

Below is the correct translation of this verse:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20translation%20

 

Shiaman14 why are you being deceptive about this Sura 48 (Al-Fatt-h) and by trying to make it appear that it does not refer to Muhammad.  In the Qur'aan, when it refers to Muhammad, it does not always say "Messenger", the Qur'aan can also address him as "You", for example this is the translation that you used:

 

[shakir 48:8] Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

 

The word "you" in this verse refers to Prophet Muhammad and again anybody can read this sura and see right through your lies.  Is this all the Shia Muslims can come with.  We have a lot of views of this debate and every body can see how the Shi'ite Muslims are at a state of lost when it comes to Al Khidr because no one and I must repeat no one has proven any of the catechisms of the Shia sectarian school of thought that has been challenged by me and no one has refuted any of my CHALLENGING questions in my book nor in this post, and instead of doing this, you are asking me stupid questions like do I or Qur'aan alone Muslims only read the Qur'aan and nothing else.  I have never met any one who follows Qur'aan alone that only reads the Qur'aan and nothing else, such thought doesn't even sound realistic.  You are wasting time by asking stupid questions on the level rather then use that time an energy to refute my CHALLENGING questions in my book or in this post.  FACTS ARE FACTS and we got too many egos in here that Al Khidr has shattered.

 

AK - For the upteenth time - tell me the version of quran/translation to use so we can stop bickering about the invalid shia translation. Let's ignore Pooya and MMA, etc. We are discussing your translation versus mine. Since the Quran is easy to understand why are we not agreeing to who is "you" and who is "Messenger".

You are correct - the Quran refers to the Prophet as "you" at times and as Messenger others and lots of other adjectives for him. I am going to put Shakir's translation below and then replace "you" with Muhammad thereafter:

[shakir 48:8] Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shakir 48:9] That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shakir 48:12] Nay! you rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and you thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shakir 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

 

[shiaMan14 48:8] Surely We have sent Muhammad as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shiaMan14 48:9] That Muhammad may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shiaMan14 48:12] Nay! Muhammad rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and Muhammad thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shiaMan14 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

If you are correct, then verse 8 & 9 and 12 & 13 make no sense whatsoever.

 

The problem is that you read Quran to find problems with Muhammad while I read the Quran to glorify Allah. Anyone with an iota of intelligence will realize that multiple people are being spoken to in the same surah. I dont need Pooya nor MMA nor you to tell me differently.

I want to make this very clear, I believe Prophet Muhammad and all the Prophets were sinless when they walked this earth.  It is also very important that you realize that "sin" is not synonymous for "mistakes".  Sin and Mistakes are not the same thing and the reason why I'm highlighting this is because there were some people in here that confused the two.

Ok. So they were sinless but made mistakes. Progress I suppose.

Now, could they commit a sin by mistake? If yes, then chances are they did commit at least 1 sin. If not, then they didn't make mistakes. Am I missing something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AK - For the upteenth time - tell me the version of quran/translation to use so we can stop bickering about the invalid shia translation. Let's ignore Pooya and MMA, etc. We are discussing your translation versus mine. Since the Quran is easy to understand why are we not agreeing to who is "you" and who is "Messenger".

You are correct - the Quran refers to the Prophet as "you" at times and as Messenger others and lots of other adjectives for him. I am going to put Shakir's translation below and then replace "you" with Muhammad thereafter:

[shakir 48:8] Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shakir 48:9] That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shakir 48:12] Nay! you rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and you thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shakir 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

 

[shiaMan14 48:8] Surely We have sent Muhammad as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shiaMan14 48:9] That Muhammad may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shiaMan14 48:12] Nay! Muhammad rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and Muhammad thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shiaMan14 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

If you are correct, then verse 8 & 9 and 12 & 13 make no sense whatsoever.

 

The problem is that you read Quran to find problems with Muhammad while I read the Quran to glorify Allah. Anyone with an iota of intelligence will realize that multiple people are being spoken to in the same surah. I dont need Pooya nor MMA nor you to tell me differently.

Ok. So they were sinless but made mistakes. Progress I suppose.

Now, could they commit a sin by mistake? If yes, then chances are they did commit at least 1 sin. If not, then they didn't make mistakes. Am I missing something?

 

Shiaman 14

 

I actually have responded to you about translations of the Qur'aan and commentaries, etc. a long time ago. Note,  All translations, tafsirs, commentaries are man-made, they are not divine so I will never instruct some one to rely only on one person translation, tafsir, commentary.  I advice people to study all the various translations, tafsir, commentary and also learn how to check their information to make sure that its supported in the Qur'aan.  Now let me give you another example with Shakir which is the translation that you like because he intentionally mistranslated Qur'aan 48:2 by trying to say the faults was on the community and not Muhammad himself as the Arabic text clearly says:

 

Qur'aan 48:2

That Allah may forgive your community their past faults and those to follow and complete His favor to you and keep you on a right way,

 

Mistranslation by Shakir

 

As we can see Shiaman14, we have another translation that Shia Muslims like to use and when it comes to this verse which proves that Muhammad is not infallible they mistranslate the verse.  As you can see Shakir translates this verse to say that Allah forgave the community for their faults.  This is no where found in the Arabic text of the Qur'aan, this is a clear and obvious mistranslation of the Arabic text of the Qur'aan.  There is nothing there in the Arabic text where Allah says He will forgive the community for their faults.  Below is the correct translation which matches the Arabic text and proves that Prophet Muhammad is not infallible because he has exhibited faults (past & future) that Allah forgave him for:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20translation%20

Edited by AlKhidr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AK - you have stated 2 mistakes of the Prophet. Let's discuss them

 

[shakir 66:1] O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[Pickthal 66:1] O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[Yusufali 66:1] O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
[AK 66:1O you Prophet, why do you prohibit what Allah has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? Allah is Forgiver, Merciful.
There are different ways to interpret this ayat. AK interprets it as the Prophet making a mistake. 
 
In my interpretation, I am going to replace "that which" with what I think it is supposed to mean:
[shiaMan14 66:1] O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) seeking to please your wives that Allah has made lawful for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[shiaMan14 66:2] Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise.
 
If you look at verse 1 & 2 holistically, you will see that the "Allah is Forgiving, Merciful" does not refer to Allah forgiving Muhammad because he didn't do anything wrong. Rather the forgiveness being talked about is for the wives that are mentioned from verse 3 onward. First Allah lifts the oath from the Prophet to relieve him, then He addresses the wives to correct their behavior.
And even if Muhammad prohibited his wives to himself, there is no mistake nor sin in that. The Prophet could have even divorced them and it would still be ok. I fail to see the mistake in this. Muhammad did not prohibit wives in general. just specific wives for a specific reason.
To use a common example, chicken is halal but I dont eat it. Does that mean I am making a mistake or committing a sin? No, it just means I am not eating chicken.
So this myth is BUSTED!
 
If we are in agreement, then we can move on to the Blind Man.
 
 

As we can see Shiaman14, we have another translation that Shia Muslims like to use and when it comes to this verse which proves that Muhammad is not infallible they mistranslate the verse.  As you can see Shakir translates this verse to say that Allah forgave the community for their faults.  This is no where found in the Arabic text of the Qur'aan, this is a clear and obvious translation of the Arabic text of the Qur'aan.  There is nothing there in the Arabic text where Allah says He will forgive the community for their faults.  Below is the correct translation which matches the Arabic text and proves that Prophet Muhammad is not infallible because he has exhibited faults (past & future) that Allah forgave him for:

 

Quraan%2048%20verse%202%20translation%20

 

Yes Shakir is a fiend and a deviant. I want to know where the above translation is from. And answer my question. I will post it again for you:

Since you are going to teach us the Quran, then I would like to use your translation. Unlike you, I quote the translator.

 

[shakir 48:8] Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,
[shakir 48:9] That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shakir 48:12] Nay! you rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and you thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shakir 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

 

[shiaMan14 48:8] Surely We have sent Muhammad as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shiaMan14 48:9] That Muhammad may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shiaMan14 48:12] Nay! Muhammad rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and Muhammad thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shiaMan14 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

If you are correct, then verse 8 & 9 and 12 & 13 make no sense whatsoever.

 

The problem is that you read Quran to find problems with Muhammad while I read the Quran to glorify Allah. Anyone with an iota of intelligence will realize that multiple people are being spoken to in the same surah. I dont need Pooya nor MMA nor Shakir you to tell me differently.


 

I actually have responded to you about translations of the Qur'aan and commentaries, etc. a long time ago. Note,  All translations, tafsirs, commentaries are man-made, they are not divine so I will never instruct some one to rely only on one person translation, tafsir, commentary.  I advice people to study all the various translations, tafsir, commentary and also learn how to check their information to make sure that its supported in the Qur'aan.

 

Sounds a lot like buck dancing? Technically, isnt reading anything other than the Quran shirk for you. So you commit shirk to save yourself from shirk. Makes perfect sense.

Edited by shiaman14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AK - you have stated 2 mistakes of the Prophet. Let's discuss them

 

[shakir 66:1] O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[Pickthal 66:1] O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[Yusufali 66:1] O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[AK 66:1O you Prophet, why do you prohibit what Allah has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? Allah is Forgiver, Merciful.
There are different ways to interpret this ayat. AK interprets it as the Prophet making a mistake. 
 
In my interpretation, I am going to replace "that which" with what I think it is supposed to mean:
[shiaMan14 66:1] O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) seeking to please your wives that Allah has made lawful for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[shiaMan14 66:2] Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise.
 
If you look at verse 1 & 2 holistically, you will see that the "Allah is Forgiving, Merciful" does not refer to Allah forgiving Muhammad because he didn't do anything wrong. Rather the forgiveness being talked about is for the wives that are mentioned from verse 3 onward. First Allah lifts the oath from the Prophet to relieve him, then He addresses the wives to correct their behavior.
And even if Muhammad prohibited his wives to himself, there is no mistake nor sin in that. The Prophet could have even divorced them and it would still be ok. I fail to see the mistake in this. Muhammad did not prohibit wives in general. just specific wives for a specific reason.
To use a common example, chicken is halal but I dont eat it. Does that mean I am making a mistake or committing a sin? No, it just means I am not eating chicken.
So this myth is BUSTED!
 
If we are in agreement, then we can move on to the Blind Man.
 
 

 

Yes Shakir is a fiend and a deviant. I want to know where the above translation is from. And answer my question. I will post it again for you:

Since you are going to teach us the Quran, then I would like to use your translation. Unlike you, I quote the translator.

 

[shakir 48:8] Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shakir 48:9] That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shakir 48:12] Nay! you rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and you thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shakir 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

 

[shiaMan14 48:8] Surely We have sent Muhammad as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shiaMan14 48:9] That Muhammad may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shiaMan14 48:12] Nay! Muhammad rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and Muhammad thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shiaMan14 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

If you are correct, then verse 8 & 9 and 12 & 13 make no sense whatsoever.

 

The problem is that you read Quran to find problems with Muhammad while I read the Quran to glorify Allah. Anyone with an iota of intelligence will realize that multiple people are being spoken to in the same surah. I dont need Pooya nor MMA nor Shakir you to tell me differently.

Sounds a lot like buck dancing? Technically, isnt reading anything other than the Quran shirk for you. So you commit shirk to save yourself from shirk. Makes perfect sense.

 

 

Salaam Shiaman14

 

Where is  your taqwa at, ever since you've been here, you have been distorting the Qur'aan.  Now below is a mistranslation that you just concocted to support your Shia shirk sectarian school of thought of falsely teaching that Prophet Muhammad, Ali, Ahlul Bayt are infallible.  Below is your distorted and obvious mistranslation:

 

 Qur'aan 66:1

O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) seeking to please your wives that Allah has made lawful for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

Mistranslation by Shiaman14

 

The Arabic text does not say what I underlined in your translation you just concocted: "O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself)"; is this all what you Shia Muslims do is mistranslate the Qur'aan!!!!  The Arabic text of the Qur'aan does not say at all what your translation here says and what you also put in parenthesis "(yourself)" is neither directly there nor implied.  You have intentionally mistranslated the Qur'aan to build an argument against me based in a false premise (which is your distorted translation), if I was a Shia Muslim I would be embarrassed of your representation.  I want every body to examine this verse (66:1) below broken down in Arabic, word for word, so you can see right through Shiaman14's  mistranslation of the Qur'aan:

 

Quraan%2066%20verse%201%20Arabic%20Break

 

As we all can see Shiaman14, the Arabic text does not say: "O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself)".  Below is the correct Qur'aanic translation for verses 1 & 2 and when we read it, your argument that was based in a false premise is DESTROYED from the roots on up:

 

Qur'aan 66:1-2

1.  O you Prophet, why do you prohibit (haraam) what Allah has made lawful (halal) for you, just to please your wives?  Allah is Forgiver, Merciful.

2.  Allah has decreed for you the laws dealing with your oaths.  Allah is your Lord. and He is The Omniscient, Most Wise.

 

 

THIS VERSE MAKES IT CLEAR THAT MUHAMMAD MADE A MISTAKE BECAUSE HE PROHIBITED SOMETHING THAT Allah MADE LAWFUL (HALAL) TO PLEASE HIS WIVES.  NO ONE IN THE GALACTIC HEAVENS OR ON THE PLANET EARTH HAS THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE ANYTHING THAT Allah HAS DECREED FOR US AND MUHAMMAD IS NO EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE.  AND OF COURSE Allah DID FORGIVE MUHAMMAD FOR MAKING THIS MISTAKE.  THE FACT THAT Allah FORGAVE MUHAMMAD FOR SOMETHING IS PROOF, EVIDENCE THAT MUHAMMAD HAD FAULTS AND MADE MISTAKES WHICH ULTIMATELY PROVES HE IS NOT INFALLIBLE.

 

SHIAMAN14 YOU ARE NOT ON MY LEVEL AND FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN FROM YOU AND WHAT I HAVE PERSONALLY EXPOSED FROM YOU LYING AND DISTORTING THE QUR'AAN, I COULD NOT TRUST ANY OF YOUR COMMENTARIES.  REMEMBER WHEN YOU LIED ABOUT YOUR SHIA COMMENTARY THAT I EXPOSED:

 

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235032954-shia-challenging-questions/?p=2850533

 

 

I have to rededicate these verses to you:

 

Qur'aan 2:75

Do you expect them to believe as you do, when some of them used to hear the word of Allah, then distort it, with full understanding thereof, and deliberately?

 

 

Qur'aan 2:79

Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, “This is from Allah,” seeking a cheap material gain.  Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.

 

 

Qur'aan 3:78

And indeed, there is among them a group who twist their tongues to imitate the scripture, that you may think it is from the scripture, when it is not from the scripture, and they claim that it is from Allah, when it is not from Allah.  Thus, they utter lies and attribute them to Allah knowingly.

 

 

Qur'aan 4:46

Among the Jews there are some who take the words out of their context and say: "We hear but we disobey" and "Your words are falling on deaf ears" and "Raa'ina (which is an ambiguous word meaning: "listen, may you  become deaf" or "be our shepherd") as they twist their tongues to slander the religion.  If only they had said (instead): "We hear and we obey" and "Hear us" and Unzurna ("Look upon us" or "watch over us" or "pay attention to us"), it would have been better for them and more proper; but Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

 

Shiaman14 when you distorted the Qur'aan and mistranslate it, people are not impressed that you list the translator by name.  Anybody can go here and examine different translations of the Qur'aan here:

 

http://readquranonline.org

Edited by AlKhidr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alkhidr where does Quran say mock people and make personal attacks on others?

If Shia are wrong why does Allah need people like you to set His religion right?

Isn't Allah all knowing and has power over everything?

Quran says Mohammed is the warner and messenger, who are you? Where does Quran ask you to write books when Quran alone is sufficient for your tribe?

And lastly do you get paid for this or it's pro bono?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come again? No, there is no mistranslation, look again:

بَلْ ظَنَنْتُمْ أَنْ لَنْ يَنْقَلِبَ الرَّسُولُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ إِلَىٰ أَهْلِيهِمْ أَبَدًا وَزُيِّنَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ وَظَنَنْتُمْ ظَنَّ السَّوْءِ وَكُنْتُمْ قَوْمًا بُورًاِ

Bal thanantum an lan yanqaliba alrrasoolu waalmuminoona ila ahleehim abadan wazuyyinathalika fee quloobikum wathanantum thanna alssawi wakuntum qawman booran

Nay,you thought that (would) never return the Messenger and the believers to their families ever,that was made fair-seeming in your heart and you assumed an assumption evil, and you became a people ruined.`(48:12)

وَمَنْ لَمْ يُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ فَإِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَافِرِينَ سَعِيرًاِ

Waman lam yumin biAllahi warasoolihi fainna aAAtadna lilkafireena saAAeeran

And whoever has not believed in Allah and His Messenger, We have then indeed prepared for the disbelievers, a blazing fire. (48:13)

You have conveniently forgotten about 48:10-11, it's all about context when quoting the Qur'an.

Besides, Shiaman14's translation 66:1-2 of is basically the same as readquranonline.org, I don't know what the controversy is. See your attitude is the problem, you are being prideful. So, you raise an false alarm, which was the smokescreen I was talking about earlier and then, you bully us to cover for your ignorance of the Qur'an. You are simply here to cause trouble, you want to prove to us the truth of Qur'an alone. Then quit being a bully and stop using harsh language. That's not how you do dawah. Besides Khidr, you are no different than the Jews described in 4:46 with your rainbow text, uppercase words and brazen accusations towards some of us.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come again? No, there is no mistranslation, look again:

بَلْ ظَنَنْتُمْ أَنْ لَنْ يَنْقَلِبَ الرَّسُولُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ إِلَىٰ أَهْلِيهِمْ أَبَدًا وَزُيِّنَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ وَظَنَنْتُمْ ظَنَّ السَّوْءِ وَكُنْتُمْ قَوْمًا بُورًاِ

Bal thanantum an lan yanqaliba alrrasoolu waalmuminoona ila ahleehim abadan wazuyyinathalika fee quloobikum wathanantum thanna alssawi wakuntum qawman booran

Nay,you thought that (would) never return the Messenger and the believers to their families ever,that was made fair-seeming in your heart and you assumed an assumption evil, and you became a people ruined.`(48:12)

وَمَنْ لَمْ يُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ فَإِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَافِرِينَ سَعِيرًاِ

Waman lam yumin biAllahi warasoolihi fainna aAAtadna lilkafireena saAAeeran

And whoever has not believed in Allah and His Messenger, We have then indeed prepared for the disbelievers, a blazing fire. (48:13)

You have conveniently forgotten about 48:10-11, it's all about context when quoting the Qur'an.

Besides, Shiaman14's translation 66:1-2 of is basically the same as readquranonline.org, I don't know what the controversy is. See your attitude is the problem, you are being prideful. So, you raise an false alarm, which was the smokescreen I was talking about earlier and then, you bully us to cover for your ignorance of the Qur'an. You are simply here to cause trouble, you want to prove to us the truth of Qur'an alone. Then quit being a bully and stop using harsh language. That's not how you do dawah. Besides Khidr, you are no different than the Jews described in 4:46 with your rainbow text, uppercase words and brazen accusations towards some of us.

 

Salaam Gaius

 

You are taking a calculated risk by saying Shia14man's translation is accurate to hope the blind will continue to follow.  Shiaman's translation is 100% flawed and does not say what the Arabic text says and no one has translated Qur'aan 66:1 to say "O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself)".  This right here exposes the fact that you are not here to seek Al Haqq because you will cover up the truth in order to prevent your so-called belief, Shia school of thought from being exposed.  Below is the Arabic break down for Qur'aan 66:1 and the correct translation (Qur'aan 66:1-2) which proves Muhammad is not infallible:

 

Quraan%2066%20verse%201%20Arabic%20Break

 

Qur'aan 66:1-2

1.  O you Prophet, why do you prohibit (haraam) what Allah has made lawful (halal) for you, just to please your wives?  Allah is Forgiver, Merciful.

2.  Allah has decreed for you the laws dealing with your oaths.  Allah is your Lord. and He is The Omniscient, Most Wise.

 

Edited by AlKhidr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam Gaius

You are taking a calculated risk by saying Shia14man's translation is accurate to hope the blind will continue to follow. Shiaman's translation is 100% flawed and does not say what the Arabic text says and no one has translated Qur'aan 66:1 to say "O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself)". This right here exposes the fact that you are not here to seek Al Haqq because you will cover up the truth in order to prevent your so-called belief, Shia school of thought from being exposed. Below is the Arabic break down for Qur'aan 66:1 and the correct translation (Qur'aan 66:1-2) which proves Muhammad is not infallible:

Quraan%2066%20verse%201%20Arabic%20Break

Qur'aan 66:1-2

1. O you Prophet, why do you prohibit (haraam) what Allah has made lawful (halal) for you, just to please your wives? Allah is Forgiver, Merciful.

2. Allah has decreed for you the laws dealing with your oaths. Allah is your Lord. and He is The Omniscient, Most Wise.

Salaam,

But isn't forbid a synonym or another way of saying prohibit?

Tell me what I am misunderstanding here:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ ۖ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ ۚ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌِ قَدْ فَرَضَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ تَحِلَّةَ أَيْمَانِكُمْ ۚ وَاللَّهُ مَوْلَاكُمْ ۖ وَهُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُِ

Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu lima tuharrimu ma ahalla Allahu laka tabtaghee mardata azwajika waAllahu ghafoorun raheemun; Qad farada Allahu lakum tahillata aymanikum waAllahu mawlakum wahuwa alAAaleemu alhakeemu. (66:1-2)

This translation's meaning: O you Prophet, why do you prohibit (haraam) what Allah has made lawful (halal) for you, just to please your wives? Allah is Forgiver, Merciful. Allah has decreed for you the laws dealing with your oaths. Allah is your Lord. and He is The Omniscient, Most Wise. (66:1-2) is exactly the same as this:O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) seeking to please your wives that Allah has made lawful for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise. (66:1-2)

Could you please clarify what you are saying, because it looks to me like you are making up lies to spread controversy over a non-existent issue. Both translations have the same meaning, just worded and phrased sightly different. Don't believe me? Double check on the Corpus Qur'an dictionary.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where is  your taqwa at, ever since you've been here, you have been distorting the Qur'aan.  Now below is a mistranslation that you just concocted to support your Shia shirk sectarian school of thought of falsely teaching that Prophet Muhammad, Ali, Ahlul Bayt are infallible.  Below is your distorted and obvious mistranslation:

 

 Qur'aan 66:1

O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) seeking to please your wives that Allah has made lawful for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

Mistranslation by Shiaman14

 

The Arabic text does not say what I underlined in your translation you just concocted: "O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself)"; is this all what you Shia Muslims do is mistranslate the Qur'aan!!!!  The Arabic text of the Qur'aan does not say at all what your translation here says and what you also put in parenthesis "(yourself)" is neither directly there nor implied.  You have intentionally mistranslated the Qur'aan to build an argument against me based in a false premise (which is your distorted translation), if I was a Shia Muslim I would be embarrassed of your representation.  I want every body to examine this verse (66:1) below broken down in Arabic, word for word, so you can see right through Shiaman14's  mistranslation of the Qur'aan:

 

Quraan%2066%20verse%201%20Arabic%20Break

 

As we all can see Shiaman14, the Arabic text does not say: "O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself)".  Below is the correct Qur'aanic translation for verses 1 & 2 and when we read it, your argument that was based in a false premise is DESTROYED from the roots on up:

 

Qur'aan 66:1-2

1.  O you Prophet, why do you prohibit (haraam) what Allah has made lawful (halal) for you, just to please your wives?  Allah is Forgiver, Merciful.

2.  Allah has decreed for you the laws dealing with your oaths.  Allah is your Lord. and He is The Omniscient, Most Wise.

 

 

THIS VERSE MAKES IT CLEAR THAT MUHAMMAD MADE A MISTAKE BECAUSE HE PROHIBITED SOMETHING THAT Allah MADE LAWFUL (HALAL) TO PLEASE HIS WIVES.  NO ONE IN THE GALACTIC HEAVENS OR ON THE PLANET EARTH HAS THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE ANYTHING THAT Allah HAS DECREED FOR US AND MUHAMMAD IS NO EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE.  AND OF COURSE Allah DID FORGIVE MUHAMMAD FOR MAKING THIS MISTAKE.  THE FACT THAT Allah FORGAVE MUHAMMAD FOR SOMETHING IS PROOF, EVIDENCE THAT MUHAMMAD HAD FAULTS AND MADE MISTAKES WHICH ULTIMATELY PROVES HE IS NOT INFALLIBLE.

Just when I think AK cannot get any dumber, he proves that there is no basal limit for his stupidity.

1) He refuses to agree to what translation we should use.

2) He questions (yourself) and blames me, no blames Shakir for falsifying the Quran. Everyone with half a brain knows that when reading the Quran anything in parentheses is the writer's interpretation and not translation. But then in his sheer stupidity, he quotes the same verse with (haram) and (halaal) in parentheses. Could you be any more idiotic? The word in the ayah is "Tuĥarrimu" meaning "prohibit" but the translator adds his own mean (haram)

3) Finally you provide a link for me to use as a reference and guess what - out of all the translations there, translations have the word (yourself) on that page. I guess the entire world is wrong but AK is correct.

4) Even if I remove (yourself), the fact remains that if you read the following verses you will understand the forgiveness is for one of your mothers (verse 3 referring to a wife of the Prophet who is your UMM). Remember, you set the precedent that we should not look at any verse in isolation but get the context by reading the prior and following verses.

5) Why is Muhammad's sex life so important to Allah that he dedicates a few ayah to it? May be Muhammad made a mistake and included this surah when really it was just a personal matter between him and his wives.

6) Are you trying to cover up the sins of the wives mentioned in verses 3-6? Who were they? Why?

 

[AK 66:1] O you Prophet, why do you prohibit (haraam) what Allah has made lawful (halal) for you, just to please your wives?  Allah is Forgiver, Merciful.

 

In my interpretation, I am going to replace "that which" with what I think it is supposed to mean and I have removed "yourself":
[shiaMan14 66:1] O Prophet! why do you forbid  seeking to please your wives that Allah has made lawful for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[shiaMan14 66:2] Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise.
 
If you look at verse 1 & 2 holistically, you will see that the "Allah is Forgiving, Merciful" does not refer to Allah forgiving Muhammad because he didn't do anything wrong. Rather the forgiveness being talked about is for the wives that are mentioned from verse 3 onward. First Allah lifts the oath from the Prophet to relieve him, then He addresses the wives to correct their behavior.
And even if Muhammad prohibited his wives to himself, there is no mistake nor sin in that. The Prophet could have even divorced them and it would still be ok. I fail to see the mistake in this. Muhammad did not prohibit wives in general. just specific wives for a specific reason.
To use a common example, chicken is halal but I dont eat it. Does that mean I am making a mistake or committing a sin? No, it just means I am not eating chicken.
So this myth is BUSTED!
 
If we are in agreement, then we can move on to the Blind Man.
 

 

SHIAMAN14 YOU ARE NOT ON MY LEVEL AND FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN FROM YOU AND WHAT I HAVE PERSONALLY EXPOSED FROM YOU LYING AND DISTORTING THE QUR'AAN, I COULD NOT TRUST ANY OF YOUR COMMENTARIES.  REMEMBER WHEN YOU LIED ABOUT YOUR SHIA COMMENTARY THAT I EXPOSED:

 

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235032954-shia-challenging-questions/?p=2850533

Thanks for reminding me this is where I trapped you into admitting:

1) always refer to preceding and following verses to get the full context.

2) You agreed that Al-Raheem is for Allah and raheem is for Prophet meaning you agreed to Al-Kamil (The Perfect) is for Allah and kamil (perfect) is for Muhammad.

 

In order to buck dance your way out of discussing Surah Fath (48), you dedicate some verses to me but you dont get off that easy so here I ask again:

Yes Shakir is a fiend and a deviant. I want to know where the above translation is from. And answer my question. I will post it again for you:

Since you are going to teach us the Quran, then I would like to use your translation. Unlike you, I quote the translator.

 

[shakir 48:8] Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shakir 48:9] That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shakir 48:12] Nay! you rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and you thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shakir 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

 

[shiaMan14 48:8] Surely We have sent Muhammad as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,

[shiaMan14 48:9] That Muhammad may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

...

[shiaMan14 48:12] Nay! Muhammad rather thought that the Messenger and the believers would not return to their families ever, and that was made fairseeming to your hearts and Muhammad thought an evil thought and you were a people doomed to perish.

[shiaMan14 48:13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers

If you are correct, then verse 8 & 9 and 12 & 13 make no sense whatsoever.

 

The problem is that you read Quran to find problems with Muhammad while I read the Quran to glorify Allah. Anyone with an iota of intelligence will realize that multiple people are being spoken to in the same surah. I dont need Pooya nor MMA nor Shakir you to tell me differently.

 

AlKhidr, on 12 Nov 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:snapback.png

I want to make this very clear, I believe Prophet Muhammad and all the Prophets were sinless when they walked this earth.  It is also very important that you realize that "sin" is not synonymous for "mistakes".  Sin and Mistakes are not the same thing and the reason why I'm highlighting this is because there were some people in here that confused the two.

Ok. So they were sinless but made mistakes. Progress I suppose.

Now, could they commit a sin by mistake? If yes, then chances are they did commit at least 1 sin. If not, then they didn't make mistakes. Am I missing something?

 

[EDITED]

Edited by magma
Inappropriate picture/caption

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inappropriate picture/caption.

Moderator - I am not sure why you deleted the picture. AK has accused several people of being racist so I posted a picture of a black man. Secondly, he is infatuated with buck dancing so the pic of the black man was of buck dancing. I was only trying to get on his good side ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moderator - I am not sure why you deleted the picture. AK has accused several people of being racist so I posted a picture of a black man. Secondly, he is infatuated with buck dancing so the pic of the black man was of buck dancing. I was only trying to get on his good side ;)

Just because he called us racist doesn’t mean that we should stoop down to his juvenile level. Besides it was highly inappropriate for Shiachat and lacking in akhlaq.

@Khidr- Okay, I am going to tell you right off what I saw wrong with your translation; You insert the word "haram" in front of the word "tuharrimu" which means "you forbid" which is really redundant and illustrates to me a lack of understanding about the quoted text in a Quran translation and that you are not as knowledgeable about Arabic as you make yourself out to be, despite using Lane's Lexicon. It was also redundant to put "halal" in front of the word "ahalla" which is a verb that means "has made lawful". This is a sad waste of Lane's Lexicon which is $400-$500 at Amazon.com. Which brings me to this point I made in one of my last points: You, Khidr, are not here to seek knowledge and properly debate. You are here to lie, abuse, belittle and spread misinformation and controversy about a subject you understand very little. So, I will repeat myself again: Seek a different path from the one you are treading on.

Besides, Shiaman14's right, there are at least between 7-8 translations that put "yourself" in quotations after tuharrimu. So I ask again, where is the controversy?

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because he called us racist doesn’t mean that we should stoop down to his juvenile level. Besides it was highly inappropriate for Shiachat and lacking in akhlaq.

 

Inappropriate and akhlaq went out the window when this guy started abusing everyone on this forum but I see your point and will remedy my actions. Apologies brother

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inappropriate and akhlaq went out the window when this guy started abusing everyone on this forum but I see your point and will remedy my actions. Apologies brother

No need to apologize to me, I was simply reminding you that your actions were inappropriate and there was no need to abandon akhlaq when Khidr has abandoned it. No foul was done, everything is cool.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam Alkhidr,

 

I'm not going  hound you, as to why you haven't answered any my question, i will just assume it's beyond your ability to do so. Anyway, i will move on. 

 

You have repeatedly stated: Shia's are committing "SHIRK" Now, i'm assuming you  have read Shia literature for you to ascertain this fact! so, therefore, i  want you to show me your analytical  research, from what source of Shia  literature you have come to this conclusion? in order for one  to dissect one belief, it would require intricate analysis of their belief . Therefore i would require, Source, References, Books and possibly Hadiths from you. And take heed in my advice, DO NOT PRESENT SOURCES THAT ARE DEEMED WEAK OR FABRICATED! 

 

And finally, do you believe that the Quran is a book of "Miracle" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam Alkhidr,

 

I'm not going  hound you, as to why you haven't answered any my question, i will just assume it's beyond your ability to do so. Anyway, i will move on. 

 

You have repeatedly stated: Shia's are committing "SHIRK" Now, i'm assuming you  have read Shia literature for you to ascertain this fact! so, therefore, i  want you to show me your analytical  research, from what source of Shia  literature you have come to this conclusion? in order for one  to dissect one belief, it would require intricate analysis of their belief . Therefore i would require, Source, References, Books and possibly Hadiths from you. And take heed in my advice, DO NOT PRESENT SOURCES THAT ARE DEEMED WEAK OR FABRICATED! 

 

And finally, do you believe that the Quran is a book of "Miracle" ?

 

Salaam Power

 

You have not answered my questions that I have asked you.  Also you are a Shia Muslims and the subjects that I addressed, I know for a fact you are fully aware of them and the sources from which they come from.  I have took the belief system of the Shia sect and compared it to the Qur'aan.

 

Now I have more questions for you:

 

1.  Did you read my Shia Challenging Question document?

 

2.  What do you think of the image of the 12 imams the Shia Ulama has created, do you think they accurately reflect the race of the 12 Imams?

 

3.  You believe the Ali, 12 Imams. Ahlul Bayt are infallible?

 

4.  Do you believe Allah placed a Khalifa to be the successor after Prophet Muhammad?

 

5.  Do you believe that the 12 Imam whom the Shia sect is the hidden or invisible one that will come?

As Salaamu Alaykum To All

 

I have uploaded my document  inside this forum that I wrote exposing the Shia fabricated Mut'ah and proved that it does not exist in the Qur'aan and how as usual the Shia Ulama and their scholars twist and distort the Arabic in the Qur'aan to try to justify it.  Below is the direct link to the post in this forum:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235033528-shia-mutah-does-not-exist-in-quraan/?p=2855637

Edited by AlKhidr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam Power

 

You have not answered my questions that I have asked you.  Also you are a Shia Muslims and the subjects that I addressed, I know for a fact you are fully aware of them and the sources from which they come from.  I have took the belief system of the Shia sect and compared it to the Qur'aan.

 

 

 

 

Salaam Alkhidr,

 

You see Alkhidr, the problem with your book  "IT HAS NO REFERENCES" and that's problematic! ​In your book, you are  quoting verses of the Quran without providing as to which Shia source says: Shia's worship the imams (as)!! 

 

So i will ask you again, IN WHICH BOOK DOES IT SAY SHIA'S WORSHIP THE IMAMS (as) ?

Edited by power

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...