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AlKhidr

Shia Challenging Questions

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[MOD NOTE: WARNING! DO NOT DOWNLOAD anything that can harm your device.]

As Salaamu Alaykum
 
I wrote this document entitled: SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTION that exposes the Shia sectarian school of thought.  You have the choice to download the document in English or Arabic.  I guarantee you that the greatest Shia scholars, shaykhs, muftis, ulama cannot meet these questions head on. 
To download either click on the link or copy and paste the link in a browser.
 
SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS (English)
https://app.box.com/s/ycavzcgbbwvp4ke7xrqzrlxsb6e543yi
 
SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS (Arabic)
https://app.box.com/s/b42mddiog507syphrrm30jf3015fm5rx
 
Salaam,
 
Al Khidr

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AlKhidr, please post something here in this topic to discuss.

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On Page 23 you say that every prophet has been black. Lol. Then you refer to Qur'an which in your translation says "black mud". You are probably a Qur'anist because not even Sunnis believe this.

 

You only refer to Qur'an. Muslims must follow two, one is incomplete without the other. Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt.

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[MOD NOTE: WARNING! DO NOT DOWNLOAD anything that can harm your device.]

As Salaamu Alaykum

 

I wrote this document entitled: SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTION that exposes the Shia sectarian school of thought.  You have the choice to download the document in English or Arabic.  I guarantee you that the greatest Shia scholars, shaykhs, muftis, ulama cannot meet these questions head on. To download either click on the link or copy and paste the link in a browser.

 SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS (English)https://app.box.com/s/ycavzcgbbwvp4ke7xrqzrlxsb6e543yi

 SHIA CHALLENGING QUESTIONS (Arabic)https://app.box.com/s/b42mddiog507syphrrm30jf3015fm5rx

 Salaam,

 Al Khidr

I think I know who this is from the Qur'anist forum, I don't know. Seems familiar to me.

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I have compiled a list of CHALLENGING QUESTIONS that the Shi'ite Ulama cannot answer or meet head on. For those Muslims who are sincerely seeking truth, one thing that you will notice about these sects in Islaam: (Sunni, Shi’ite, Ahmadiyya, Madhab Hanafi, Wahhabi, Sufi, Salafi, Tajani, Baha'i, Muhammadiyah, Nahdatul Ulamah) is that they will try to BUCK DANCE or SHUFFLE their way out of proving their arguments or school of thought in the Qur'aan which they cannot do. In True Islaam we have to prove our arguments in the Qur'aan and there is no way of escaping this!!!!

Apparently, you are not even a sunni, who are you?

 

Off topic: Is Baha'i regarded as a Islamic sect?

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1B. PRODUCE ONE VERSE IN THE QUR'AAN WHERE Allah MENTIONS ANY ONE OF YOUR IMAMS BY NAME?

 

as salamu alaykum, al khidr,

 

this is abu Muhammad,

 

every basamallhi has the name of Muhammad and ali asj. Muhammad sawa is the rahmat of Allah dat ul dat to all the people of the 100 trillion star systems in milkway, plus clusteres, plus spirals, plus the vast 300 million multiverse, and the many plans some that intersect this reality, and those that don't. imam ali as is the rahimat or special mercy, he is the disgunisher mentioned in Tariq 13.

 

also although some anabiya were black others where Chinese (you find a story almost like buddas in naim of saduq)  arab isarli etc. they are not all black, black nationalist please stop trying to make everyone black, you are killing the efforts to teach the depreived black americans real black history

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As Salaamu Alaykum To All

 

I noticed that that moderated highlighted in red above my post stating "WARNING! DO NOT DOWNLOAD anything that can harm your device" I WANT TO ENSURE EVERY ONE IN HERE THAT THE LINKS AND THE UPLOAD OR CLOWD IS 100% SAFE.  When you click on the link, you will be taken to a professional site and you can again safety download the pdf documents.

 

I also got a chance to read the comments in this post and I noticed thus far no one has been able to answer any of the CHALLENGING QUESTIONS that I brought forth.  I see people only responding back with EMPTY STATEMENTS, OPINIONS, ASSUMPTIONS, QUESTIONS but no direct answers/evidence in Al Qur'aan to refute any of my CHALLENGING QUESTIONS TO THE SHIA SCHOOL OF THOUGHT. 

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On Page 23 you say that every prophet has been black. Lol. Then you refer to Qur'an which in your translation says "black mud". You are probably a Qur'anist because not even Sunnis believe this.

 

You only refer to Qur'an. Muslims must follow two, one is incomplete without the other. Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt.

 

Salaam Sayed

 

You got to me kidding when you indicated that Sunni Muslims do not believe HAMAA in Qur'aan 15:26 & 28 means BLACK.  In addition to this, your response shows your lack of knowledge of basic Arabic.  It is common knowledge that HAMAA in those verses means BLACK.  Let me give you a reference from Lane Lexicon to prove to you that HAMAA means BLACK:

 

Lane%20Lexicon.jpg?t=1445730952

 

Hamaa as you can see means BLACK.  Salsal means MUD or CLAY.  Allah tells us in Qur'aan 15:26 that He created the original human race from BLACK MUD and in Qur'aan 15:28 Allah tells us that He created the original man (Adam) from BLACK MUD.  There are a lot of English translations of the Qur'aan that has accurately translated this verse so I do not know what you are talking about or perhaps its you who is struggling with this deep down inside because you cannot accept the fact that your origins is from Africa.  I also tied these verses with Qur'aan 3:33-34 where Allah says that Adam and his descendants belong to the SAME PROGENY which means they are all from the same race, bloodline, lineage which makes them all Black and not White or any other race.  I went into details about this in my document, all you have to do is read it with an open mind but when we are dealing with the facts from the Qur'aan without the man-made innovations this is something you cannot reckon with.

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Apparently, you are not even a sunni, who are you?

 

Off topic: Is Baha'i regarded as a Islamic sect?

 

John Algar

 

To respond to your question, I am not a Sunni Muslim.  I'm not a part of any of these sects: Sunni, Salafi, Wahhabi, Sufi, Hanif Madhab, Ahmadiyya, just to name a few which are not mentioned in the Qur'aan, they were created after the death of Prophet Muhammad.  I am the type of Muslim that is described in the Qur'aan 2:2-4.  I believe in the 5 Pillars of Faith, 6 Articles of Iman.  To make things simple, I am a Muslim that seeks to follow and practice Pure Islaam which emanates from the Qur'aan alone which also means that I reject all these false sect schools of thought which are infested with bida (man-made innovations).

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Salaam Sayed

 

You got to me kidding when you indicated that Sunni Muslims do not believe HAMAA in Qur'aan 15:26 & 28 means BLACK.  In addition to this, your response shows your lack of knowledge of basic Arabic.  It is common knowledge that HAMAA in those verses means BLACK.  Let me give you a reference from Lane Lexicon to prove to you that HAMAA means BLACK:

 

Lane%20Lexicon.jpg?t=1445730952

 

Hamaa as you can see means BLACK.  Salsal means MUD or CLAY.  Allah tells us in Qur'aan 15:26 that He created the original human race from BLACK MUD and in Qur'aan 15:28 Allah tells us that He created the original man (Adam) from BLACK MUD.  There are a lot of English translations of the Qur'aan that has accurately translated this verse so I do not know what you are talking about or perhaps its you who is struggling with this deep down inside because you cannot accept the fact that your origins is from Africa.  I also tied these verses with Qur'aan 3:33-34 where Allah says that Adam and his descendants belong to the SAME PROGENY which means they are all from the same race, bloodline, lineage which makes them all Black and not White or any other race.  I went into details about this in my document, all you have to do is read it with an open mind but when we are dealing with the facts from the Qur'aan without the man-made innovations this is something you cannot reckon with.

Has resonance of Nation of Islam, So much wrong with this post i really dont know where to start. However a simple example for the simple minded.

 

Have you ever seen am egg from a Hen it can be brown or white. When the chick is born its yellow and when it grows it has many colors and shades. 

It doesnt matter what colour a Prophet is . He is a prophet and Allah has said he has sent prophets to all nations.

 

Allah has also said He has created as nations and tribes so that we may know each other better (paraphrasing and I hope its a verse and not a hadith)

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Allah tells us in Qur'aan 15:26 that He created the original human race from BLACK MUD and in Qur'aan 15:28 Allah tells us that He created the original man (Adam) from BLACK MUD. There are a lot of English translations of the Qur'aan that has accurately translated this verse so I do not know what you are talking about or perhaps its you who is struggling with this deep down inside because you cannot accept the fact that your origins is from Africa. I also tied these verses with Qur'aan 3:33-34 where Allah says that Adam and his descendants belong to the SAME PROGENY which means they are all from the same race, bloodline, lineage which makes them all Black and not White or any other race.

We all descended from Adam (as). By this reasoning we are all black. I'm OK with that. Are you?

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A True Sunni

 

I read your post, but you have responded blindly and why do I say that, it is because you are not considering the proper context of my post addressing Hamaa in Qur'aan 15:26 & 28.  You see I'm responding to another post by this guy: Sayed or Repentant who is in total denial about the fact that Allah created the original race and man from Black Mud.  I also would advise you to download my document because I also addressed the false pictures the Shia sect or ulama has created about Ali and the 12 Imams portraying them as white men, which is totally impossible.  I am dealing with racism in Islaam long before you and I was born.  So The True Sunni don't sit here and say to me it does not matter what color the Prophets are like that was my point.  That was not my point at all and you know this, I'm just exposing the racism and lies in Islaam perpetrated by racist Muslims but what you should have done was go back to your Sunni sect and tell them that it does not matter what color the Prophets are since they have created false hadiyths stating the Prophet Muhammad is a white man which would be impossible.

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We all descended from Adam (as). By this reasoning we are all black. I'm OK with that. Are you?

 

Yes we are descendant from Prophet Adam which will make us all Black.  I am in agreement with you.

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Pick the most "challenging one" and inshallah we will discuss it.

 

StrugglingForTheLight

 

You have said "Pick the most challenging one".  In my document, all of them are Challenging questions that I know you cannot meet any of them head on but let me pick one of them for you so we all can see you buck dance and shuffle your way out of answering it with evidence in the Qur'aan.  Lets see you answer this challenging question below with evidence in the Qur'aan???:

 

THE SHI'ITE MYTH 3:

The Shi'ite and the Sunni sect both have fabricated two separate sets of hadiyth that they teach are authentic.  Below is the list of the Shi'ite and Sunni set of hadiyth:

 

Shi’ite accept:

Kafi of Abu Ja'fa Muhammad

Man la Yastuhdirahul Fiqah of Shaikh Ali

Tahdhib of Shaikh abu Jafar Muhammad

Najhu’l Balaghah of Sayyid Radi

 

Sunni accept:

Muwatta of Malik ibn Ans

Jamu’us Sahih of Bukhari

Sahih of Muslim

Sunan of Abu Daoud Sulaiman

Jami of Tirmidhi

Kitabus Sunan of Muhammad ibn Yazid ibn Majah of Qazwani

 

How could this be when Prophet Muhammad was ONE man.  How could one man have two separate, conflicting sets of hadiyth????  This right here let you know that there is a game that is being played on the Mumineen (The Believers) and those who are sincerely seeking truth by the Shi'ite and Sunni Ulama. The Shi'ite rejects the Sunni hadiyth as authentic and the Sunni rejects the Shi'ite hadiyth as authentic.  In due time by the will of Allah Ta'ala the Shi'ite and Sunni sect will realize that both of their schools of thought are false and unfounded in the Holy Qur'aan.

 

3A.  SINCE THE SHI'ITE SECT BELIEVES THAT THEIR SET OF HADIYTH ARE AUTHENTIC THEN I CHALLENGE YOU TO PRODUCE ONE VERSE IN THE QUR'AAN WHERE Allah USES THE WORD HADIYTH ÿ AND SAY ANY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING:

 

(1) We are suppose to believe in hadiyth or

 

(2) We are suppose to follow hadiyth or

 

(3) We will get guidance from hadiyth or

 

(4) Hadiyth was revealed or sent down (nazzala) to   Muhammad or

 

(5) Hadiyth is the sunna of Muhammad

 

????????????????????????????

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Salam

 

 

There are some verses that show the need of hadiths.

 

1) We are told obey the Ulil-Amr - context, it's with flow with a people compared to the family of Ibrahim, the great authority of the family of Ibrahim is emphasized with benefit to those who believed in it, and hell fire for those who turned away from it. In this connection, there is emphasis to disbelieve in Ayatallah resulting in hell, and those who believe being in paradise. Then right after a reminder of judging and ruling between people by justice - we are told to obey God and obey the Messenger and those possess the authority from us. The emphasis on obedience to God is to emphasize that the great authority of the family of Ibrahim was obedience to God, who obeyed them obeyed God. Now the context clearly shows they are divinely appointed authorities. As for the contention they should be said to be referred for disputes, I've replied to that here: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235033096-the-case-for-ulil-amr/. We need hadiths to designate who these leaders exactly are.

 

2) The Quran talks about chosen families of Ibrahim, Nuh, Imran, Musa and Harun, and emphasizes that the wage of the message is to love al-Qurba. Upon sincere reflection and flow with respect to rest of Quran, it is known that al-Qurba are his chosen near kin, and not everyone related to him by blood, and so we need hadiths to explain who they are.

 

3) Quran talks about a certain message that had to be revealed by Mohammad or else he would not have conveyed the message. That message could only be known through hadiths, exactly, what was stated can only be known through hadiths. The interpretation that it means something like "jump, if you didn't jump, then you didn't jump" goes against all eloquence expected from the lord of the worlds to make such a meaningless statement. "covey what you have been revealed if you haven't, then you didn't convey the message" doesn't make sense to be referred to such a phrase, but rather is about a specific thing revealed to Mohammad (saw). This is perhaps saying although the wilayah of Ahlulbayt (as) is clear to the sincere in Quran, and Salah, and many of your hadiths, you have to convey it in a way that the masses will convey a message tot he masses, generation to generation, and that while there is room for denial so that the masses who deny the true meaning will convey it, the true meaning will be known as well as no doubt to the incident.  The emphasis that God doesn't guide the disbelieving people suggests people who disbelieve in clear proofs as opposed to believing in his ayat and submitting to them, will not accept this message.

 

4) Harun was emphasized to be more better in speech and at better at conveying or more eloquent, this was all to emphasize that bani-israel were to be taught knowledge of a higher kind that needed a certain type of tongue, aside from the revelation of God which is God's tongue that doesn't need any person to be more "better or more eloquent in speech". Likewise the Quran emphasized on this for a reason repeatedly, because, the Quran is to be complimented by eloquent tongues. Suratal alam nashrah..has a similar structure to Musa's prayer answered in suratal Taha and also goes well wtih Musa being the highest in the people's eyes at a certain point. It seems to compliment Suratal Taha and allude to it by structure, that his remembrance/mention has been raised as well. This alludes to someone in the position of Harun to Musa, to him, except in Prophethood which we know Quran says Mohammad is the seal of.

 

5) Salah was done with Mohammad during his lifetime, in groups, with one structure. We cannot know this structure except through the hadiths. This includes the wisdom of having Salawat in Salah, and including the family of Mohammad in that remembrance. Without that, the connection is incomplete, because we aren't recognizing the successors of Mohammad along side his position as Messenger. Although the wisdom of Quran shows why Salawat upon the family of Mohammad occurs in Salah, it would not be automatically known to the masses without the help of hadiths. The other dimensions of Salah while have a wisdom in Quran also cannot be known to masses without hadiths.

 

 

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Yes we are descendant from Prophet Adam which will make us all Black.  I am in agreement with you.

 

So if we are all black, saying that all the prophets were black is meaningless.  It only says they are descended from Adam (as).

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So if we are all black, saying that all the prophets were black is meaningless.  It only says they are descended from Adam (as).

 

Notme

 

You need to look at the post the and comment that I was responding to about this subject.  The person again who I was responding to indicated that Hamma does not mean Black, when it clearly does.  Second, the Shia sect has fabricated false images of Ali and the 12 Imams as European or White people.  I would advise you to read my document where I have addressed this issue.   When I was agreeing with you about all people who are descendants of Adam and are Black since this is their origin, I was not talking about in the sense that Chinese people can be considered Black who are descendants of Adam vs. the original Black race such as Adam and the Prophets.  All the Prophets on earth were on race and not of different races.  Their bloodline was pure, undiluted, they belonged to the same progeny as the Qur'aan states.  I believe you are intelligent enough to know the difference and between being original Black and descendant of the Black race.

 

Now I have a question for you, the Shia sect fabricated images of Ali and the 12 imams as white people and I want to know if you believe this was the correct image, race of Ali and the 12 Imams?  I hope you are not the type of person that expects all people to keep their mouths quiet about this form of racism in Islaam.

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A True Sunni

 

I read your post, but you have responded blindly and why do I say that, it is because you are not considering the proper context of my post addressing Hamaa in Qur'aan 15:26 & 28.  You see I'm responding to another post by this guy: Sayed or Repentant who is in total denial about the fact that Allah created the original race and man from Black Mud.  I also would advise you to download my document because I also addressed the false pictures the Shia sect or ulama has created about Ali and the 12 Imams portraying them as white men, which is totally impossible.  I am dealing with racism in Islaam long before you and I was born.  So The True Sunni don't sit here and say to me it does not matter what color the Prophets are like that was my point.  That was not my point at all and you know this, I'm just exposing the racism and lies in Islaam perpetrated by racist Muslims but what you should have done was go back to your Sunni sect and tell them that it does not matter what color the Prophets are since they have created false hadiyths stating the Prophet Muhammad is a white man which would be impossible

 

I dont disagree with what you are saying however how you are seeking to prove it is very poor. Unfortunately when you seek to portray historical individuals they take on the look of the population portraying them .

 

so Jesus becomes blue eyed blonde and white

Iranians painting the Ahlul Bait paint them (as) with Iranian features and the same would be true of any other race.

 

It is reported that the mother of Imam Musa Kazim (as) was of African origin.

in the stronger hadith it is reported that the mother of Imam Mahdi (as) was of African origin.

 

If you loo carefully at typical Iranian paintings you will see Imam Musa Kazim has Iranian feature but is darker in colouration.

 

I am not excusing racism but just explaining it 

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Now I have a question for you, the Shia sect fabricated images of Ali and the 12 imams as white people and I want to know if you believe this was the correct image, race of Ali and the 12 Imams? I hope you are not the type of person that expects all people to keep their mouths quiet about this form of racism in Islaam.

It never was an issue for me, but if pressed to make a guess, I would expect that a person born in the middle East would have a middle skin tone. If I were to find out that Imam Ali (as) were black, white, or Chinese, it wouldn't impact my perception of his status or my belief. Race is a social construct invented by colonialist powers. We are all the same.

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Salam

 

 

There are some verses that show the need of hadiths.

 

1) We are told obey the Ulil-Amr - context, it's with flow with a people compared to the family of Ibrahim, the great authority of the family of Ibrahim is emphasized with benefit to those who believed in it, and hell fire for those who turned away from it. In this connection, there is emphasis to disbelieve in Ayatallah resulting in hell, and those who believe being in paradise. Then right after a reminder of judging and ruling between people by justice - we are told to obey God and obey the Messenger and those possess the authority from us. The emphasis on obedience to God is to emphasize that the great authority of the family of Ibrahim was obedience to God, who obeyed them obeyed God. Now the context clearly shows they are divinely appointed authorities. As for the contention they should be said to be referred for disputes, I've replied to that here: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235033096-the-case-for-ulil-amr/. We need hadiths to designate who these leaders exactly are.

 

2) The Quran talks about chosen families of Ibrahim, Nuh, Imran, Musa and Harun, and emphasizes that the wage of the message is to love al-Qurba. Upon sincere reflection and flow with respect to rest of Quran, it is known that al-Qurba are his chosen near kin, and not everyone related to him by blood, and so we need hadiths to explain who they are.

 

3) Quran talks about a certain message that had to be revealed by Mohammad or else he would not have conveyed the message. That message could only be known through hadiths, exactly, what was stated can only be known through hadiths. The interpretation that it means something like "jump, if you didn't jump, then you didn't jump" goes against all eloquence expected from the lord of the worlds to make such a meaningless statement. "covey what you have been revealed if you haven't, then you didn't convey the message" doesn't make sense to be referred to such a phrase, but rather is about a specific thing revealed to Mohammad (saw). This is perhaps saying although the wilayah of Ahlulbayt (as) is clear to the sincere in Quran, and Salah, and many of your hadiths, you have to convey it in a way that the masses will convey a message tot he masses, generation to generation, and that while there is room for denial so that the masses who deny the true meaning will convey it, the true meaning will be known as well as no doubt to the incident.  The emphasis that God doesn't guide the disbelieving people suggests people who disbelieve in clear proofs as opposed to believing in his ayat and submitting to them, will not accept this message.

 

4) Harun was emphasized to be more better in speech and at better at conveying or more eloquent, this was all to emphasize that bani-israel were to be taught knowledge of a higher kind that needed a certain type of tongue, aside from the revelation of God which is God's tongue that doesn't need any person to be more "better or more eloquent in speech". Likewise the Quran emphasized on this for a reason repeatedly, because, the Quran is to be complimented by eloquent tongues. Suratal alam nashrah..has a similar structure to Musa's prayer answered in suratal Taha and also goes well wtih Musa being the highest in the people's eyes at a certain point. It seems to compliment Suratal Taha and allude to it by structure, that his remembrance/mention has been raised as well. This alludes to someone in the position of Harun to Musa, to him, except in Prophethood which we know Quran says Mohammad is the seal of.

 

5) Salah was done with Mohammad during his lifetime, in groups, with one structure. We cannot know this structure except through the hadiths. This includes the wisdom of having Salawat in Salah, and including the family of Mohammad in that remembrance. Without that, the connection is incomplete, because we aren't recognizing the successors of Mohammad along side his position as Messenger. Although the wisdom of Quran shows why Salawat upon the family of Mohammad occurs in Salah, it would not be automatically known to the masses without the help of hadiths. The other dimensions of Salah while have a wisdom in Quran also cannot be known to masses without hadiths.

 

StrugglingForLight

 

I read your entire post and I see that you did nothing but BUCK DANCE and SHUFFLE your way out of answering the question with evidence in the Qur'aan and you was the one who said pick out the most challenging question, perhaps you opened your mouth too soon.  I presented to you the Challenging Question: SHI'ITE MYTH 3, where you was asked to produce one verse in the Qur'aan where Allah uses the Arabic word "hadiyth" and prove that the Shi'ite set of hadiyth are authentic, a source of Islaam that we are suppose to either believe in or follow and again you quoted not one single verse to prove this.  I'm glad the viewers of this post are able to see this and how the Shia sect school of thought is unfounded in the Holy Qur'aan.  StrugglingForLight, would you like to give it another try???? 

 

StrugglingForLight if you do try this CHALLENGING QUESTION again keep this in mind, which is a quote from page 3 of my pamphlet that I hoped you downloaded and read:

 

"When we debate its very very very important that we prove our arguments NOT by EMOTIONS, FEELINGS, OPINIONS, ASSUMPTIONS, WISHFUL THINKING, EMPTY STATEMENTS, BELIEFS or I WAS RAISED THIS WAY or THE IMAM OR SHAYKH TOLD ME THIS because none of this is evidence or proof of nothing!!!!"

 

StrugglingForLight read my CHALLENGING QUESTION: THE SHI'ITE MYTH 3 very carefully and if you really believe the Shia set of hadiyth are authentic, then meet my CHALLENGE HEAD ON by producing evidence or just a single verse from the Qur'aan.

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وَكَذَٰلِكَ يَجْتَبِيكَ رَبُّكَ وَيُعَلِّمُكَ مِنْ تَأْوِيلِ الْأَحَادِيثِ وَيُتِمُّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَىٰ آلِ يَعْقُوبَ كَمَا أَتَمَّهَا عَلَىٰ أَبَوَيْكَ مِنْ قَبْلُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْحَاقَ ۚ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ {6}

[12:6] And thus will your Lord choose you and teach you the interpretation of the sayings and make His favor complete to you and to the family of Yaqoub, as He made it complete before to your fathers, Ibrahim and Ishaq; surely your Lord is Knowing, Wise.

 

 

As you can see on the favours on Yusuf is that he would learn the interpretations of the hadiths (sayings) and such would be part of God's favour on Yusuf. Going with Harun as better in tongue alongside Musa, we know that Prophets also teach from their own words, or else Musa would not have asked regarding Harun being better in speech  As it's comprehensive - the sayings - include the words of Ibrahim, Isaac, and Yaqoub.

 

The hadith were to be followed in the family of Ibrahim, but now it's been shown the family of Mohammad are chosen. They are given the interpretation of the sayings, and as such, are to be followed. They not only understand the hadiths, but obviously then through such understanding and interpretation, know the true from the false.

 

There is the word hadith, and Allah [swt] has compared the family of Ibrahim to the Rasool and Ulil-Amr from this nation, showing the latter is obviously the family of Mohammad.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

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StrugglingForLight

I read your entire post and I see that you did nothing but BUCK DANCE and SHUFFLE your way out of answering the question with evidence in the Qur'aan and you was the one who said pick out the most challenging question, perhaps you opened your mouth too soon. I presented to you the Challenging Question: SHI'ITE MYTH 3, where you was asked to produce one verse in the Qur'aan where Allah uses the Arabic word "hadiyth" and prove that the Shi'ite set of hadiyth are authentic, a source of Islaam that we are suppose to either believe in or follow and again you quoted not one single verse to prove this. I'm glad the viewers of this post are able to see this and how the Shia sect school of thought is unfounded in the Holy Qur'aan. StrugglingForLight, would you like to give it another try????

StrugglingForLight if you do try this CHALLENGING QUESTION again keep this in mind, which is a quote from page 3 of my pamphlet that I hoped you downloaded and read:

"When we debate its very very very important that we prove our arguments NOT by EMOTIONS, FEELINGS, OPINIONS, ASSUMPTIONS, WISHFUL THINKING, EMPTY STATEMENTS, BELIEFS or I WAS RAISED THIS WAY or THE IMAM OR SHAYKH TOLD ME THIS because none of this is evidence or proof of nothing!!!!"

StrugglingForLight read my CHALLENGING QUESTION: THE SHI'ITE MYTH 3 very carefully and if you really believe the Shia set of hadiyth are authentic, then meet my CHALLENGE HEAD ON by producing evidence or just a single verse from the Qur'aan.

How is Struggling's answers a form of buck -dancing and shuffling. I don't see it and I don't understand why you are getting argumentative and abusive, we are all black in origin and we started losing the skin tone once we started moving towards the colder regions of Europe and the Middle East,places away from the equator where dark skin is not necessary. Now, it is known for a fact that Ali (as) was descended from Banu Quraysh, meaning he was Arab, along with the other Imams ( as). Iranians painting them with Iranian features is just artistic representation and does not represent our beliefs about the Imams (as).

And you forgotten one very essential rule in any debate, never be belittling towards others as it weakens your arguments and right now, you are just proving that I was right to stop being a Qur'anist; You guys can't seem to prove your views without insulting others and quite frankly, Al Khidr,I don't blame some people for turning atheist after being Qur'aniyoon. If the Qur'an alone is correct, why are the Submitters disputing with the Nineteeners and vice versa. Which is the correct form of Qur'an alone?

Anyway, why can't you just post questions here instead of having us to download it on our computers and phones? I don't want to ruin my phone by downloading your files.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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وَكَذَٰلِكَ يَجْتَبِيكَ رَبُّكَ وَيُعَلِّمُكَ مِنْ تَأْوِيلِ الْأَحَادِيثِ وَيُتِمُّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَىٰ آلِ يَعْقُوبَ كَمَا أَتَمَّهَا عَلَىٰ أَبَوَيْكَ مِنْ قَبْلُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْحَاقَ ۚ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ {6}

[12:6] And thus will your Lord choose you and teach you the interpretation of the sayings and make His favor complete to you and to the family of Yaqoub, as He made it complete before to your fathers, Ibrahim and Ishaq; surely your Lord is Knowing, Wise.

 

 

As you can see on the favours on Yusuf is that he would learn the interpretations of the hadiths (sayings) and such would be part of God's favour on Yusuf. Going with Harun as better in tongue alongside Musa, we know that Prophets also teach from their own words, or else Musa would not have asked regarding Harun being better in speech  As it's comprehensive - the sayings - include the words of Ibrahim, Isaac, and Yaqoub.

 

The hadith were to be followed in the family of Ibrahim, but now it's been shown the family of Mohammad are chosen. They are given the interpretation of the sayings, and as such, are to be followed. They not only understand the hadiths, but obviously then through such understanding and interpretation, know the true from the false.

 

There is the word hadith, and Allah [swt] has compared the family of Ibrahim to the Rasool and Ulil-Amr from this nation, showing the latter is obviously the family of Mohammad.

 

 

StrugglingForTheLight

 

I just read Qur'aan 12:6, the Arabic word "hadiyth" in that verse does not mean nor refer to the hadiyth books written 250 years AFTER the death of Muhammad by the Shi'ite and Sunni Sect below:

 

Shi’ite accept:

Kafi of Abu Ja'fa Muhammad

Man la Yastuhdirahul Fiqah of Shaikh Ali

Tahdhib of Shaikh abu Jafar Muhammad

Najhu’l Balaghah of Sayyid Radi

 

Sunni accept:

Muwatta of Malik ibn Ans

Jamu’us Sahih of Bukhari

Sahih of Muslim

Sunan of Abu Daoud Sulaiman

Jami of Tirmidhi

Kitabus Sunan of Muhammad ibn Yazid ibn Majah of Qazwani

 

The Arabic words in that verse   تَأْوِيلِ الْأَحَادِيثِ  means that Allah is teaching Prophet Yusuf the interpretation of events, narratives, dreams, etc.  and below is another verse from this same Sura that uses the same Arabic words and again when you read its proper context you will see that it does not refer or mean those hadiyth books but only that Allah has taught, shown Prophet Yusuf the interpretation of events, narratives, dreams:

 

Qur'aan 12:101

12_101.png

“My Lord, You have given me kingship and it is You who have imparted me true knowledge of the interpretation of events.  O You, The Originator of the galactic heavens and the planet earth; You are my Lord and Master in this life and in the Hereafter.  Let me die as a Muslim, and count me with the righteous.”

 

You need to look at the context of how words are used and any body who knows Arabic and believes in hadiyth (like you do) will never quote (Qur'aan 12:6) to try to justify the hadiyth books that the Sunni and Shia associates with Rasuwl Allah that I listed up above?  The other flaw in your argument is this, you are quoting a verse that is talking about Prophet Yusus who lived thousands of years before Prophet Muhammad was born, thus you have yet to show or prove one verse that is talking about those hadiyth books that were written 250 AFTER the death of Prophet Muhammad that the Shi'ite and Sunni sect has falsely associated to Rasuwl Allah as the Sunna.  To make things evenm ore clear, StrugglingForTheLight, you were asked to show just one verse in the Qur'aan where Allah uses the Arabic word "hadiyth" to prove (1) that your Shi'ite set of hadiyth are authentic and not the Sunni set.  StrugglingForTheLight, I want you to be honest because we have 2 different sets of hadiyth from the Shi'ite and Sunni sect AND DID YOU PROVE IN THE QUR'AAN THAT YOUR SHI'ITE SET OF HADIYTH ARE AUTHENTIC AND NOT THE SUNNI'S?  and (2) You were asked to produce just one verse in the Qur'aan where Allah again uses the Arabic word "hadiyth" to prove any one of the following:

 

(1) We are suppose to believe in hadiyth or

 

(2) We are suppose to follow hadiyth or

 

(3) We will get guidance from hadiyth or

 

(4) Hadiyth was revealed or sent down (nazzala) to   Muhammad or

 

(5) Hadiyth is the sunna of Muhammad

 

????????????????????????????

 

 

This is why I asked you to read the Challenging Question:  SHI'ITE MYTH 3 on page 17 in my document very very carefully.  StrugglingForTheLight YOU CANNOT QUOTE VERSES IN THE QUR'AAN THAT ARE ADDRESSING PROPHETS THAT LIVED THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE MUHAMMAD TO PROVE THOSE HADIYTH BOOKS THAT I LISTED ABOVE THAT WERE WRITTEN AROUND 250 YEARS AFTER THE DEATH OF MUHAMMAD ARE AUTHENTIC OR A SOURCE OF ISLAAM.   Why don't you just be honest and admit that there is no such verse in the Qur'aan where Allah backs your so-called hadiyth books that were fabricated and falsely associated to Rasuwl Allah?

 

So StrugglingForTheLight, would you like to give the CHALLENGING QUESTION: SHI'ITE MYTH 3 another try, since you have failed twice to meet this CHALLENGE????

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Allah [swt] gave the family of Ibrahim the wisdom and gave them understanding of the hadiths (sayings). Allah [swt] is showing by the way of the past, with this nation, so we stick to the family of Mohammad. He himself has compared the Rasool and Ulil-Amr to the family of Ibrahim.

 

If you were going to translate the word "hadiths" into events, why bother? What's the point of showing you a verse with the word. If you want simply by meaning, then I've already shown that.

 

As for specific following Shiite hadiths, why make Ahlulbayt [as] Imams if we weren't supposed to record their words? During time of Yahya, would you follow the sect that believed in the people attributing the sayings of the Prophets who followed Yahya for example, or who rejected his Prophethood? It's the same with Wilayah. 

 

 

(1) We are suppose to believe in hadiyth or

 

(2) We are suppose to follow hadiyth or

 

(3) We will get guidance from hadiyth or

 

(4) Hadiyth was revealed or sent down (nazzala) to   Muhammad or

 

(5) Hadiyth is the sunna of Muhammad

 

 

All these are proven by the words I showed.  It's you who thinks God is telling us irrelevant things when stating he has given the interpretations of the sayings to Yusuf.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

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Allah [swt] gave the family of Ibrahim the wisdom and gave them understanding of the hadiths (sayings). Allah [swt] is showing by the way of the past, with this nation, so we stick to the family of Mohammad. He himself has compared the Rasool and Ulil-Amr to the family of Ibrahim.

 

If you were going to translate the word "hadiths" into events, why bother? What's the point of showing you a verse with the word. If you want simply by meaning, then I've already shown that.

 

As for specific following Shiite hadiths, why make Ahlulbayt [as] Imams if we weren't supposed to record their words? During time of Yahya, would you follow the sect that believed in the people attributing the sayings of the Prophets who followed Yahya for example, or who rejected his Prophethood? It's the same with Wilayah. 

 

All these are proven by the words I showed.  It's you who thinks God is telling us irrelevant things when stating he has given the interpretations of the sayings to Yusuf.

 

StrugglingForTheLight

 

You proved absolutely nothing, the only thing you did was quote a verse that was addressing Prophet Yusuf who lived thousands of years before Muhammad was born and before the hadiyth writers were born and the funny thing about the verse (Qur'aan 12:6) that you quoted is that its only referring to the events, dreams, narrations Allah exposed to Prophet Yusuf.  You  need to drop your ego and admit the truth which is you do not have the ability to refute CHALLENGING QUESTION: SHI'ITE MYTH 3 which is on page 17 of my document you downloaded.

 Wa'alaykum.

 

I have a question for you, and I hope you can address it succinctly.

 

How many times do you pray a day?

Qualia

 

I observe 5 Salaat as prescribed in the Qur'aan.  How many times in a day do you observe Salaat?

Allah [swt] gave the family of Ibrahim the wisdom and gave them understanding of the hadiths (sayings). Allah [swt] is showing by the way of the past, with this nation, so we stick to the family of Mohammad. He himself has compared the Rasool and Ulil-Amr to the family of Ibrahim.

 

If you were going to translate the word "hadiths" into events, why bother? What's the point of showing you a verse with the word. If you want simply by meaning, then I've already shown that.

 

As for specific following Shiite hadiths, why make Ahlulbayt [as] Imams if we weren't supposed to record their words? During time of Yahya, would you follow the sect that believed in the people attributing the sayings of the Prophets who followed Yahya for example, or who rejected his Prophethood? It's the same with Wilayah. 

 

All these are proven by the words I showed.  It's you who thinks God is telling us irrelevant things when stating he has given the interpretations of the sayings to Yusuf.

 

StrugglingForTheLight

 

To show your incompetents, you attempted to prove your argument by asking a question such as:

 

"As for specific following Shiite hadiths, why make Ahlulbayt [as] Imams if we weren't supposed to record their words?"

 

You cannot prove arguments with questions or raising questions, you can only prove your arguments with evidence in the Qur'aan.  What you said up above that I quoted is your assumption and notice that you failed to prove your empty statement here with evidence in the Qur'aan.  Where can you prove this at in the Qur'aan, you just can't make things up and associated to our religion (Al Islaam)?  This is the problem with sects, your belief system, sectarian school of thought is unfounded in the Holy Qur'aan.

 

And for your information, none of the Prophets in the Qur'aan received hadiyth books that the Shi'ite and Sunni sect wants to call sunna.  Allah uses the word "hadiyth" throughout the Qur'aan but Allah has never used "hadiyth" to refer to books that are sunna and this is why you cannot prove that (1) your Shi'ite hadiyths are authentic or (2) where Allah tells us to believe in your Shi'ite hadiyth.  StrugglingForLight, aren't you aware of which Sunna that Prophet Muhammad followed in the Qur'aan????  I gave this answer in my document: CHALLENGING QUESTIONS FOR A SHI'ITE MUSLIM.

 

Now go back to the verse that you quoted (Qur'aan 12:6) and show us all how this verse is referring to your Shi'ite hadiyth and not the Sunni hadiyth or are you just automatically assuming its referring to the Shi'ite set of hadiyth and not the Sunni set of hadiyth?

 

Shi’ite accept:

Kafi of Abu Ja'fa Muhammad

Man la Yastuhdirahul Fiqah of Shaikh Ali

Tahdhib of Shaikh abu Jafar Muhammad

Najhu’l Balaghah of Sayyid Radi

 

That verse (12:6) again is only talking about interpretation of events, dreams, narrations, not hadiyth books that the Shi'ite and Sunni sect falsely attributed to Prophet Muhammad by men who were born hundreds of years AFTER Prophet Muhammad's death.

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