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In the Name of God بسم الله

Karbala: Sacrifice, Suffering, And Beauty

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Who is Hussain?   I will tell you who he's not. He's not Mahatma Ghandi, he's not Nelson Mandela, he's not Malcolm X. Husayn is Husayn, and I feel that we are misunderstanding the purpose a

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم   This brings to light the much needed explanation of the cosmological importance of Sayyid al-Shuhada' and the tragedy of Karbala' instead of reducing to only social justice, p

وحدَّثني أبي ـ رحمه الله ـ وجماعة مشايخي ، عن سعد بن عبدالله ، عن عليِّ بن إسماعيل بن عيسى ؛ ومحمّد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطّاب ، عن محمّد بن عَمرو بن سعيد الزّيّات ، عن عبدالله بن بُكير ، عن زُرارة ، عن

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If you were Christian I would say that was some lovely Christology. :-) Do you really think the theology of sacrifice to be lost?

I know that this wasn't adressed to me but I believe the theology of sacrifice be greatly misunderstood and it was just recently that I understood that the crucifixion of Jesus (as) to be foreshadowing of what was to happen in Karbala.

Speaking of Christology, if you are interested, check this out:

http://www.al-islam.org/islam-in-the-bible-thomas-mcelwain and this:http://www.al-islam.org/jesus-though-shiite-narrations-mahdi-muntazir-qaim

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إِنَّ اللّهَ اشْتَرَى مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَنفُسَهُمْ وَأَمْوَالَهُم بِأَنَّ لَهُمُ الجَنَّةَ يُقَاتِلُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَيَقْتُلُونَ وَيُقْتَلُونَ وَعْداً عَلَيْهِ حَقّاً فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَالإِنجِيلِ وَالْقُرْآنِ وَمَنْ أَوْفَى بِعَهْدِهِ مِنَ اللّهِ فَاسْتَبْشِرُواْ بِبَيْعِكُمُ الَّذِي بَايَعْتُم بِهِ وَذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ (111)

 

Never underestimate the -active- role of Imam Hussain. He wasn't just a ram to make a show. It was wilful, it was purposeful but what it is hard to comprehend is its huge impact, such a thing cannot be denied.
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Now let's go to Husayn. Sacrificial animals are marked at birth. Likewise, in one hadith, the Imam was marked for sacrifice the day Sayyida Fatima gave birth to him. In return, the Prophet says, Allah will make the Imams from his progeny. Again, we see the relationship between sacrifice and covenant: even though Imam al-Hasan was of a higher status, the Imams would come from Husayn's progeny due to his sacrifice.

 

 

 

From these clues and many others, it is clear to me that Husayn is the true lamb of God, who sacrificed himself on behalf of his Shi`a to receive the covenant and blessing of God. Husayn was the one volunteered to give his head so that the world may have Imams. Our crying, mourning, and visitation is an act of association of Husayn so that we may be recipients of the fruit of his sacrifice. Karbala would become the connection between the celestial world and this one.

 

 

 

That's an interesting piece of information (as is the whole post). Often, people raise the question why the remaining nine Imams were/are from Hussain's [a] progeny and not Hassan's [a] and I don't think I have read a satisfactory answere to that, until now (maybe, I have just looked in the wrong places). So, due to the sacrifice Hussain [a] was ready to do for Allah, Allah bestowed the Imamat on his line. Would you say that that was the only reason for this sacrifice? Maybe 'only' is not the right word here since having Imams is fundamental to our belief and their existence is essential- regarding it from this light, it still stands true that Imam Hussain [a] saved Islam with his sacrifice, doesn't it?

 

I think many people today cannot truly connect to the meanings, the ideolgy of sacrifices, cannot understand the depth of it but still, the tragedy of Karbala touches them, whether they have grown up with it from childhood or just recently discovered it, and they try to connect with it by means they can relate to and understand. I mean, in today's world, many would see the actions of Ibrahim [a], his readiness to 'kill' his son with his own hands for the sake of Allah as 'barbaric' (which happens when you lack faith, I guess) - if they would view Hussain's [a] actions from the same perspective, they probably would not understand. It is easier to interprete Karbala with means they can relate to.

 

I do see how such an approach could lessen the weightage of what Hussain did as throughout history, there have been many people fighting for rights, rising against oppression etc... But can we completely exclude these values from the events of Karbala? With the scarifice being the essence here, couldn't these things be 'side-factors/motivations'?

 

Thank you for such a wonderful post. I do admit, I wasn't aware of all these symbols of sacrifice - you, truly, never stop learning. Would you recommend any works, as in writings (English) done on Karbala?

 

wasalam.

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as salamu alaykum,

 

ahsant, ahsant. the purpose of imam hussayn as sacfirce was to preserve islam, and inspire the worl until rajat qaim as. when the qaim comes the 313 as would all be maytred in the battle before the sinking of badia, and that would inspire the whole world to rise up in the name of islam, the scaferice of 313 would preserve islam til qiyamat. islam is the din of scaferice.

 

i am the son of two ransomed scaferices - imam hussayn as

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Salam

 

When I read Quran, I see that God created the best of people to carry the best leaders and help them in their command of good and forbidding of evil. To be inspired and rally behind those who God has manifested their purity and exalted rank.  I see warning however to not be like the people in the past, that differed from the rope from God and rope from humans forming the rope of God after clear proofs. However it seem a great tragedy occurred. Satanic forces overcame even the best of the people risen for humanity till that time. Allah [swt] however promised if these people don't help him, he will replace them with another people that will. When I read Quran I see God saying, I have trusted you with the last Prophet, with last revelation that I will protect, and I have entrusted with the those who possess the authority that I have bestowed like I bestowed upon the family of Ibrahim. I will help him who helps them and abandon those who abandon them. I think through the warning of Quran, although there was a chance of deviation, it was expected that companions, due to the trial they went through and struggle, would of been helpers of Ali. The succession of Ali and Hassan, could of took place in better circumstances. 

 

Over all the tragedy to me, and why I grief, is because I realize the Quran intention and what is brought for, was in fact, destroyed on the day of Aushura.  Although what Imam Hussain did preserved the message of Islam, I see when Imam Hussain was killed, it was if they killed the Prophet of God himself. It's as if they killed Mohammad's beautiful soul, and didn't like the beauty of Mohammad. It's as if they hated the Wilayah of Allah and wanted deviated lowly leaders instead. 

 

It was a tragedy, mainly, because it didn't have to occur.

 

There is a hadith that Allah [swt] did bida with the affair of this Ahlulbayt a few times, and it was written at one point that Imam Hussain [as] would be victorious and lead government. However, that was abolished it seemed, and that destiny didn't take place, but a tragic was written instead.

 

Those who seek victory after being oppressed...this is what Quran emphasizes on. 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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I know that this wasn't adressed to me but I believe the theology of sacrifice be greatly misunderstood and it was just recently that I understood that the crucifixion of Jesus (as) to be foreshadowing of what was to happen in Karbala.

Would you like to elaborate on that?

Because you can see both sides...you know social justice is a vital part of a life of faith because "faith without works is dead". However, it doesn't take the place of participation in the mystical union of the community through the weekly celebration/reliving of the sacrifice of the Mass or Divine Liturgy. ( Interesting that the OP used the nomenclature " Lamb of God".)

Does this need to go to the Other Faiths interface forum or can it stay here?

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حدثني محمد بن الحسين الاشناني قال : حدثنا عباد بن يعقوب قال : أخبرنا مورع بن سويد بن قيس قال : حدثنا من شهد الحسين ، قال : كان معه ابنه الصغير
فجاء سهم فوقع في نحره ، قال : فجعل الحسين يأخذ الدم من نحره ولبته فيرمى به إلى السماء فما يرجع منه شئ ، ويقول : اللهم لا يكون اهون عليك من فصيل ( ناقة صالح
)

 

Imam al-Husayn [a] was with his young son when an arrow struck his neck. So Husayn took the blood of his neck and his chest and threw it in the air, and none of it returned. He said, "O Allah, do not allow this to be less significant to You than the she-camel of Salih [a]."

 

We all know the story of the Prophet Salih, and Karbala' is an inner dimension of that story. Like many stories of the Qur'an, this one has parallels with that of the Prophet and his Ahl al-Bayt. Salih was the Arab prophet to Thamud, just as Muhammad was the Arab prophet to his people. The people of Thamud idolaters worshiping a rock/mountain, and the Meccans were worshiping idols in the Ka`ba. As a sign, Salih brought a beautiful pregnant she-camel out of this rock. Likewise, Husayn accompanied the Prophet, and he was beautiful ("husayn" means "endeared beauty"). Salih ordered the good treatment of the she-camel, and the Prophet ordered the good treatment of Ahl al-Bayt. The she-camel provided milk (and ancient symbol for eternal life), and Husayn provided the deen. The camel was prevented from drinking the water of Thamud, and Husayn was prevented from water. The camel was struck and killed by the worst person of Thamud, and Husayn was struck and killed by the worst person of the Umma. The camel was survived by an offspring, and Husayn was survived by an offspring. Both the camel and Husayn were a blessing and a sign to the community, and the community neglected their rights and killed them.

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Would you like to elaborate on that?

Because you can see both sides...you know social justice is a vital part of a life of faith because "faith without works is dead". However, it doesn't take the place of participation in the mystical union of the community through the weekly celebration/reliving of the sacrifice of the Mass or Divine Liturgy. ( Interesting that the OP used the nomenclature " Lamb of God".)

Does this need to go to the Other Faiths interface forum or can it stay here?

I think it can stay here, although I will probably make a topic on it in the Other Faiths section. Now, as for my words regarding the theology of sacrifice being "lost" or misunderstood, I feel that in the 21st century culture of instant gratification, we are losing touch with the meaning of what happened in Karbala. As Qaim said, the true meaning of sacrifice is being forgotten and misunderstood.

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If you were Christian I would say that was some lovely Christology. :-) Do you really think the theology of sacrifice to be lost?

 Hello Left Coast Mom,

 

My teacher put it very well, in short the theology of the sacrifice was to show us how much God was important to Imam Hussain, and the real sorrow and crying should be for ourselves that we are so far and ignorant to what a true human being in the eyes of God means, and what it means to Love God.

 

 

There was a narration that a group of people went to visit the Imam of their time, Imam Reza ( the 8th divinely Authorized Leader) from a far distance,

And told the care taker, that we are the Shias of Imam Reza and have come to see him,

The caretaker/student informs the Imam, but The Imam rejects to see them and said you are not Shias,

 

They were surprised, but waited and requested after a while again and said that we are the Shias( followers) of you and would like to meet you,

for the second time the Imam Rejected them, and said you are not my shias,

By the third time, they were very anxious and requested the third time we are your shias and have come to visit you.

 

After the Third time, The Imam told them, Do not say you are my Shia ( followers) but say you are  admirers of my household ( Ahlul- bayt),

Then they accepted and said yes, we are the admirers of your House hold,

when the accepted this, The Imam compensated them for waiting and went to visit them at their places.

 

( phrasing the narration in my own words)

 

Because according to Our Imams the definition of shia is as follows:

 

Imam Baqir (A.S) has said those who claim to be shia should know that shias are our friends and followers. They are:

1.Pious  2.Obedient  3.Humbleness  4. Uprightness  5.Trustworthiness

6.By their, Zikr-remembrance of God at all times  7.Their salat  8.fasting 9.Kindness to parents  

10.Respect for the rights of neighbors 11. Their assistance for the poor and the disabled

12.Sympathy for the destitute 13.Loving behavior towards orphans 14.Truthfulness

15.Recitation of the Holy Quran, and acting according to all commandments and laws in it

16.True Shi’as control their tongue and use it in the best manner for beneficence

18. Wish the best for all the servants of God 19. give shelter to their friends.   

 

Hence if we do not strive to fulfill the above, we have lost the Lesson behind the tragedy, and just stuck in customary/cultural rituals, which many non Muslim see and call Muslim festival !

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There is no doubt that Imam al-Husayn's (as) movement was one based on justice. Amr bil ma`roof was the foundation of his decision, and Karbala' was a cosmic battle between good and evil, the Imam of Guidance and the Imam of Disbelief, the Shi`a of Ahl al-Bayt and the Shi`a of the devil. But we know that all ma`sumeen did amr bil ma`roof, and even Husayn's predecessors rose up and were martyred. What highlights Husayn's movement is his act of sacrifice, which undergirds the Imamate of Ibrahim (as) and his family. Husayn, in his sacrifice, fulfilled the inner meaning of Hajj, which is full subservience and selflessness towards Almighty God Allah. Again and again, the hadiths present the parallels between Hajj and Imam al-Husayn, whose visitation equals many Hajj, because he is the epicentre of Hajj.

 

--

 

حدثني ابي رحمه الله، عن سعد بن عبد الله، عن احمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن محمد بن سنان، عن الحسين بن مختار، عن زيد الشحام، عن ابي عبد الله (عليه السلام)، قال: زيارة الحسين (عليه السلام) تعدل عشرين حجة وأفضل من عشرين حجة (2).

 

Imam as-Sadiq [a] said, "Visitation of al-Husayn [a] is equal to twenty Hajj. Rather, it is more than twenty Hajj."

 

أبي عن سعد عن النهدي عن علي بن أسباط يرفعه إلى أبي عبد الله (ع) قال إن الله تبارك و تعالى يبدأ بالنظر إلى زوار قبر الحسين بن علي ع عشية عرفة قال قلت قبل نظره إلى أهل الموقف قال نعم قلت و كيف ذاك قال لأن في أولئك أولاد زنا و ليس في هؤلاء أولاد زنا

 

From Imam al-Sadiq (as) who said: Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì looks at the visitors of the grave of al-Hussain b. Ali (as) the night of 'Arafah." The narrator asked: "Before those in 'Arafah?" The Imam (as) replied: "Yes." The narrator continued asking: "And how is that?" The Imam (as) said: "It is because there are sons of fornication (awlad al-zina) in the people of 'Arafah, but there are none in these (meaning the ones in Karbala)."

Thank you for the elaboration! Yes, I think I see what you mean.

Another thought, we have that saying of the prophet "Hussain is from me, and I am from Hussain." In context of what you mentioned, it could also be interpreted as such, couldn't it? Since the prophet was born because the sacrifice of Ismail was ransomed with that of Hussain [a].

Either way, beautiful thread.

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 

This brings to light the much needed explanation of the cosmological importance of Sayyid al-Shuhada' and the tragedy of Karbala' instead of reducing to only social justice, politics, and/or sectarianism.

 

 

 

 

No, my good sir/ma'am, it is Imamology.

`Isa b. Maryam عليه السلام is the follower of al-Husayn عليه السلام

 

في أمان الله

 

 

Better yet, it is Tawḥīd.

ان الشرك لظلم عظيم

 

Shirk is great injustice... what would that make of the Tawhid?

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Salam bro Qa'im,

That's a very interesting quote.

I'd like to ask some questions:

Remember that many of our major narrators come from these Judaeo-Christian backgrounds: Zurara, `Ali b. Mahzayar, Yunus b. `Abd ar-Rahman, Abdullah b. Ja`far al-Himyari, al-Bazanti, `Ali b. Asbat, most of the Ansar (Abu Sa`eed al-Khudri, Jabir b. Abdullah, etc.)

Do you mean that they were formerly Jewish or Christians? How do we know that their former religion didn't shape their understanding of Islam or the ahadith they narrated?

وحدَّثني أبي ـ رحمه الله ـ وجماعة مشايخي ، عن سعد بن عبدالله ، عن عليِّ بن إسماعيل بن عيسى ؛ ومحمّد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطّاب ، عن محمّد بن عَمرو بن سعيد الزّيّات ، عن عبدالله بن بُكير ، عن زُرارة ، عن ابي جعفر عليه السلام «قال : كتب الحسين بن عليِّ مِن مكّة إلى محمّد بن عليٍّ : بِسم الله الرَّحمن الرَّحيم ؛ مِن الحسين بن عليٍّ إلى محمَّد بن عليٍّ ومَن قَبِلَه مِن بني هاشم ؛ أمّا بعد فإنَّ مَنْ لَحِقَ بي اسْتُشْهِد ، ومَنْ لَم يَلْحَقْ بي لم يُدرِكِ الفَتْح ؛ والسَّلام

When he was in Mecca, Imam al-Husayn [a] wrote to his brother Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya. He said the following: "In the name of Allah the Beneficient the Merciful: From al-Husayn b. Ali to Muhammad b. Ali and those who are with him from the Children of Hashim [in Medina]. Verily, one who joins me will be martyred, and one who does not join me will not attain the Victory. Peace."

Why ibn Hanafiyyah & ibn `Abbas didn't accompany Imam Husayn (as)?

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Do you mean that they were formerly Jewish or Christians? How do we know that their former religion didn't shape their understanding of Islam or the ahadith they narrated?

 

The individuals I mentioned above were very close to the ma`sumeen, and often knew more than one Imam. The Imams kept them grounded in Islamic tradition. Remember that even most of the Ansar were of Jewish background. If the Husayni literature all came out of a small band of rabbis, then it would be fair to have that suspicion, but it is very clear from a plethora of sources that this is the way the Ahl al-Bayt and their students remembered Husayn. Much of what I have said in post 1 (Husayn knowing that he was going to die, the symbolic rituals of Hajj) are not uniquely Shii btw, but can be found in Sunni literature as well.

 

Why ibn Hanafiyyah & ibn `Abbas didn't accompany Imam Husayn (as)?

 

Their ma`rifa was not at the level of those who accompanied Imam al-Husayn.

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His will to Muhammad bin Al Hanafyyiah

"بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ، هَذَا مَا أَوْصَى بِهِ الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ عَلِيِّ بْنِ أَبِي طَالِبٍ إِلَى أَخِيهِ مُحَمَّدٍ الْمَعْرُوفِ بِابْنِ الْحَنَفِيَّةِ، أَنَّ الْحُسَيْنَ يَشْهَدُ أَنْ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَحْدَهُ لَا شَرِيكَ لَهُ، وَ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً عَبْدُهُ وَ رَسُولُهُ جَاءَ بِالْحَقِّ مِنْ عِنْدِ الْحَقِّ، وَ أَنَّ الْجَنَّةَ وَ النَّارَ حَقٌّ، وَ أَنَّ السَّاعَةَ آتِيَةٌ لا رَيْبَ فِيها، وَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَبْعَثُ مَنْ فِي الْقُبُورِ، وَ أَنِّي لَمْ أَخْرُجْ أَشِراً وَ لَا بَطِراً وَ لَا مُفْسِداً وَ لَا ظَالِماً، وَ إِنَّمَا خَرَجْتُ لِطَلَبِ الْإِصْلَاحِ فِي أُمَّةِ جَدِّي ( صلى الله عليه و آله ) أُرِيدُ أَنْ آمُرَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَ أَنْهَى عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ، وَ أَسِيرَ بِسِيرَةِ جَدِّي وَ أَبِي عَلِيِّ بْنِ أَبِي طَالِبٍ ( عليه السَّلام ) فَمَنْ قَبِلَنِي بِقَبُولِ الْحَقِّ فَاللَّهُ أَوْلَى بِالْحَقِّ، وَ مَنْ رَدَّ عَلَيَّ هَذَا أَصْبِرُ حَتَّى يَقْضِيَ اللَّهُ بَيْنِي وَ بَيْنَ الْقَوْمِ بِالْحَقِّ وَ هُوَ خَيْرُ الْحاكِمِينَ، وَ هَذِهِ وَصِيَّتِي يَا أَخِي إِلَيْكَ وَ ما تَوْفِيقِي إِلَّا بِاللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلْتُ وَ إِلَيْهِ أُنِيبُ"

 

​His letter to nobel of Kufa

 في كتابه الى جماعة من وجهاء الكوفة قال فيه: "بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ مِنَ الْحُسَيْنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ إِلَى سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ صُرَدٍ وَ الْمُسَيَّبِ بْنِ نَجَبَةَ وَ رِفَاعَةَ بْنِ شَدَّادٍ وَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ وَالٍ وَ جَمَاعَةِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ:

أَمَّا بَعْدُ: فَقَدْ عَلِمْتُمْ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه و آله ) قَدْ قَالَ فِي حَيَاتِهِ: مَنْ رَأَى سُلْطَاناً جَائِراً مُسْتَحِلًّا لِحُرُمِ اللَّهِ نَاكِثاً لِعَهْدِ اللَّهِ مُخَالِفاً لِسُنَّةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ، يَعْمَلُ فِي عِبَادِ اللَّهِ بِالْإِثْمِ وَ الْعُدْوَانِ ثُمَّ لَمْ يُغَيِّرْ بِقَوْلٍ وَ لَا فِعْلٍ كَانَ حَقِيقاً عَلَى اللَّهِ أَنْ يُدْخِلَهُ مَدْخَلَهُ، وَ قَدْ عَلِمْتُمْ أَنَّ هَؤُلَاءِ الْقَوْمَ قَدْ لَزِمُوا طَاعَةَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَ تَوَلَّوْا عَنْ طَاعَةِ الرَّحْمَنِ وَ أَظْهَرُوا الْفَسَادَ وَ عَطَّلُوا الْحُدُودَ وَ اسْتَأْثَرُوا بِالْفَيْ‏ءِ وَ أَحَلُّوا حَرَامَ اللَّهِ وَ حَرَّمُوا حَلَالَهُ، وَ إِنِّي أَحَقُّ بِهَذَا الْأَمْرِ لِقَرَابَتِي مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه و آله )، وَ قَدْ أَتَتْنِي كُتُبُكُمْ وَ قَدِمَتْ عَلَيَّ رُسُلُكُمْ بِبَيْعَتِكُمْ أَنَّكُمْ لَا تُسَلِّمُونِّي وَ لَا تَخْذُلُونِّي، فَإِنْ وَفَيْتُمْ لِي بِبَيْعَتِكُمْ فَقَدْ أُصِبْتُمْ حَظَّكُمْ وَ رُشْدَكُمْ وَ نَفْسِي مَعَ أَنْفُسِكُمْ وَ أَهْلِي وَ وُلْدِي مَعَ أَهَالِيكُمْ وَ أَوْلَادِكُمْ فَلَكُمْ بِي أُسْوَةٌ، وَ إِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلُوا وَ نَقَضْتُمْ عُهُودَكُمْ وَ خَلَعْتُمْ بَيْعَتَكُمْ فَلَعَمْرِي مَا هِيَ مِنْكُمْ بِنُكْرٍ، لَقَدْ فَعَلْتُمُوهَا بِأَبِي وَ أَخِي وَ ابْنِ عَمِّي وَ الْمَغْرُورُ مَنِ اغْتَرَّ بِكُمْ، فَحَظَّكُمْ أَخْطَأْتُمْ وَ نَصِيبَكُمْ ضَيَّعْتُمْ فَمَنْ نَكَثَ فَإِنَّما يَنْكُثُ عَلى‏ نَفْسِهِ وَ سَيُغْنِي اللَّهُ عَنْكُمْ، وَ السَّلَامُ"

 

​His letter to nobel of Basrah

الَ ابْنُ نَمَا كَتَبَ الْحُسَيْنُ ( عليه السَّلام ) كِتَاباً إِلَى وُجُوهِ أَهْلِ الْبَصْرَةِ مِنْهُمُ الْأَحْنَفُ بْنُ قَيْسٍ، وَ قَيْسُ بْنُ الْهَيْثَمِ، وَ الْمُنْذِرُ بْنُ الْجَارُودِ، وَ يَزِيدُ بْنُ مَسْعُودٍ النَّهْشَلِيُّ وَ بَعَثَ الْكِتَابَ مَعَ زَرَّاعٍ السَّدُوسِيِّ، وَ قِيلَ مَعَ سُلَيْمَانَ الْمُكَنَّى بِأَبِي رَزِينٍ، _ جاء ـ فِيهِ: "إِنِّي أَدْعُوكُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَ إِلَى نَبِيِّهِ، فَإِنَّ السُّنَّةَ قَدْ أُمِيتَتْ، فَإِنْ تُجِيبُوا دَعْوَتِي وَ تُطِيعُوا أَمْرِي أَهْدِكُمْ سَبِيلَ الرَّشاد"

 

 

 

​Karbala wasn't a Christology.

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Reform? Revolution? Resistance?

 

Imam al-Husain [a] said, "I have come out to seek rectification (islah) of the nation of my grandfather the Messenger of Allah " وَإِنَّمَا خَرَجْتُ لِطَلَبِ الْإِصْلَاحِ فِي أُمَّةِ جَدِّي صلى الله عليه وآله،

 

The modern usage of the word "reform" means something very different from the Arabic word islah, and yet it is the most common translation by those who believe that Karbala is "everyday" and "everywhere". To reform something is to fundamentally change the essence of that thing to make it "better" at its original purpose and "renewed" from obsoleteness. The main example of a religious reformation is the Protestant Reformation, where Martin Luther started a rebellion that reformed Christianity and took it away from it structure, its papacy, its tradition, and its rituals. It was a pivotal moment in Christianity that changed its essences and privatized it, making Protestant Christianity an individualist faith-based religion.

 

Reform often means to liberally modernize something that is outdated ("Muslim reformists").

 

"Revolution" using to be a revolving uprising - a corrupt king at the top was replaced by another king. After the revolution, the society goes back to the way it began - much like how the revolution of the sun comes back to where it started. With the French Revolution, "revolution" took on a whole new meaning. The French Revolution sought to throw the entire old society away and start a whole new system, with new ideals that are centred around the people, a new culture and a new form of governance. This would later be associated with other nationalist revolutions in the 20th century (overthrowal of empires and divine kings and birthing new republican nation-states) and communist revolutions that would throw capitalism into the bin and redistribute the wealth of the elite. Revolutions were almost always about empowering a citizen.

 

"Resistance" is an "anti-establishment" slogan which is often associated with people's struggles against governments or superpowers. We've all heard about "the resistance" in the Shia world.

 

So in a modern world that is obsessed with resistance, revolution, and religious reform, we have to ask ourselves honestly, was Husain about any of these things? The word "islah" means to rectify.- to take something broken or tainted, and bring it back to its perfect, fixed state. Husain [a] did not come to make socio-economic reforms, he came to save Islam and bring it back to its purity through his sacrifice. The "everyday-everywhere" people use this expression to imply that Imam al-Husayn was a progressive figure looking to implement a progressive humanitarian agenda, but I'm afraid that this modern back-projection on the narrative that is unfounded in the literature.

 

As for "revolution", Husayn was not looking to introduce a new Islam and a new culture. In fact, he was no even looking to just overthrow the Caliphate, because had that been so, he would not have been set for sacrifice. He was neither looking for a citizen-centred revolution, nor a replacement of the monarch. If anything, he was looking to bring us back into the primordial covenant. The first to enact a revolution was Satan, who refused to bow down to Adam. Husain was not looking for revolution, he was looking to bring us back to our fitra by "fixing" what was broken.

 

Those who "resist" are Satanic, because the highest power is Allah. Islam is the opposite of resistance, it is submission. It is to give in to our fitra, give in to the nature we were created in. Those who resist and revolt are those who go against the divine order, because resistance, reformation, and revolution are all deviations and perversion from the divine status quo.

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وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَهُمُ الْبَغْيُ هُمْ يَنْتَصِرُونَ


لَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلَنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَنْزَلْنَا مَعَهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْمِيزَانَ لِيَقُومَ النَّاسُ بِالْقِسْطِ ۖ وَأَنْزَلْنَا الْحَدِيدَ فِيهِ بَأْسٌ شَدِيدٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَلِيَعْلَمَ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنْصُرُهُ وَرُسُلَهُ بِالْغَيْبِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ


Those who "resist" are Satanic, because the highest power is Allah. Islam is the opposite of resistance, it is submission. It is to give in to our fitra, give in to the nature we were created in. Those who resist and revolt are those who go against the divine order, because resistance, reformation, and revolution are all deviations and perversion from the divine status quo.

 

Got hired by CIA Qaim or what? How much they paying you? (kidding but seriously bro, I can't believe what I'm hearing from you).

 

وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَهُمُ الْبَغْيُ هُمْ يَنْتَصِرُونَ

 

وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَهُمُ الْبَغْيُ هُمْ يَنْتَصِرُونَ

 

وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَهُمُ الْبَغْيُ هُمْ يَنْتَصِرُونَ

These verses are clear resistance is a quality of a believer and the pious, they seek victory and resist. They don't accept oppression and the status as it is as you say.

 

Lastly God commands towards justice, if society is unjust and rule unjustly, how is society to obey God's command of justice, just say the rulers don't let us implement justice God - we know they pillage villages, destroy livelihood, use the people's money corruptly but we sit there and submit to the status and divine order you put.

 

Whatever, everyone has their own religion and Quran has many faces, this is the truth. You call people who resist Satanic, but perhaps it's Satanic influence that is speaking through you to go against the resistance.


 

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Sahih International: And how many a prophet [fought and] with him fought many religious scholars. But they never lost assurance due to what afflicted them in the cause of Allah , nor did they weaken or submit. And Allah loves the steadfast.

Pickthall: And with how many a prophet have there been a number of devoted men who fought (beside him). They quailed not for aught that befell them in the way of Allah, nor did they weaken, nor were they brought low. Allah loveth the steadfast.

Yusuf Ali: How many of the prophets fought (in Allah's way), and with them (fought) Large bands of godly men? but they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah's way, nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah Loves those who are firm and steadfast.

Shakir: And how many a prophet has fought with whom were many worshippers of the Lord; so they did not become weak-hearted on account of what befell them in Allah's way, nor did they weaken, nor did they abase themselves; and Allah loves the patient.

Muhammad Sarwar: Many godly people fought to help the Prophets in the cause of God. They did not lose courage, show weakness, or give in when facing hardships in their fight for the cause of God. God loves those who have patience.

Mohsin Khan: And many a Prophet (i.e. many from amongst the Prophets) fought (in Allah's Cause) and along with him (fought) large bands of religious learned men. But they never lost heart for that which did befall them in Allah's Way, nor did they weaken nor degrade themselves. And Allah loves As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.).

Arberry: Many a Prophet there has been, with whom thousands manifold have fought, and they fainted not for what smote them in God's way, neither weakened, nor did they humble themselves; and God loves the patient.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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There is no doubt that Imam al-Husayn's (as) movement was one based on justice. Amr bil ma`roof was the foundation of his decision, and Karbala' was a cosmic battle between good and evil, the Imam of Guidance and the Imam of Disbelief, the Shi`a of Ahl al-Bayt and the Shi`a of the devil...

 

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 

Please do not fling accusations of being a spy or whatever, it is unjustified, especially when the point trying to be made here is that most people simply reduce Karbala' and the sacrifice of Sayyid al-Shuhada عليه السلام to the things the brother is being critical of while ignoring it's larger, cosmic, and metaphysical importance.

 

في أمان الله

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I think it's you guys who are ignoring the cosmic, metaphysical importance of manifestation of reason and justice. Many Prophets were killed in the way of God. Imam Hussain was an Imam that followed the seerah of the Prophets.

 

 

As Imam Ali says, you either rise up with wings or you don't at all, keeping people at peace. Imam Hussain rose up with wings, while Imam Hassan could not at one point and had to give up the path of struggle.

 

You don't go fight when the fruits are not ripened, meaning, you don't go killing yourself like a moron to simply resist the Taghut. Unfortunately, we are turning this into some sort of act above all comprehensive reason, while it's about manifesting reason and the way of reason, the way of the divine light that the Prophets came with and the path and fate many Prophets died upon.

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Every day is Ashura and Everyday is Karbala

=

No day like your day Ya Aba Abdillah

 

 

Unless you are saying that enjoying good is restricted to tenth of Muhram and only in Karbala.

 

 

Reform. It is the word that comes as translation of Islah. If the conceptual meaning differ between one nation and another it dose not mean that those who translate the quote original meant to re-invent the religion.

 

Rebel/revolt... Certainly Imam Hussain was not an outlaw. But he said "خرجت"I came out, which translates to going against, or going out of the current government. Certainly when he went out of mecca he was not wearing Ihram nor he was holding roses to Yazid army, nor he slaughtered his own sons then killed himself. Even in modern Arabic terms, the closest word to kharajtu is rebel/revolt.

 

Resist. Certainly we should resist satanic temptation and submit to Allah only. Firth dose not mean to be submissive to everything. That is actually against firth if you are to be fair.

Submit to the LGBT ? no.

Submit to LGBT or lose your job.

Submit to feminism and anti hijab movement and reformation of islamic thoughts so we modernise muslims and their treatment to women? no.

 

If we are to play sementaics we will never finish.

 

Resist = Rafidhi. Isn't rafidism is refusal . Is int resistance is refusal act?

 

 

So we cry on Imam Hussain, gain this thawab, then go back to our life and live it in harmony with Yazid. < This was the reason of the call : every land is Karbala and everyday is Ashura. It is because people abandoned the amr bil Ma'rouf wa nahi an almonkar. They were mourning hussain but accept that alcohols are sold in their neighbourhoods. They mourned Hussain then accept the prostitutes being offered in every corner of their village. 

Do you think that people in islamic lands are happy with the corruption being practiced upon their land and through the usage of the money they made?

Once upon a time, they were very"unsatanic". They did not resist the corruption. Women were wearing headscarf and mini skirt. I am not making things up, the state of religion was really in the lowest low.

Then the slogan : Every day is karbala was introduced. It was for bringing the hearts alive again as it is the purpose of remembering Karbala.

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 

Please do not fling accusations of being a spy or whatever, it is unjustified, especially when the point trying to be made here is that most people simply reduce Karbala' and the sacrifice of Sayyid al-Shuhada عليه السلام to the things the brother is being critical of while ignoring it's larger, cosmic, and metaphysical importance.

 

في أمان الله

Al-Kawthar is a cosmic and metaphysical reward to the prophet due to him having no children. Should we doubt the progeny importance?

The hit of imam Ali to Amr bin Wid in the day of Khandaq was equal to the worship of the humans and jins till the day of judgement. That's its cosmic and metaphysical scale... Should the rest of companions just stop fighting after that hit because they weren't worthy of such high state?

 

How about regular humans. Isn't true that our own deeds have also a cosmic and metaphysical effects? Dose that nullify the importance of the Zahir?

 

Who said that Zahir and Batin are not connected? Who said that social justice or political reform or the importance of الحاكم العادل and the importance of standing against الحاكم الجائر are not connected to the redness of the sky in the day of Karbala?

Who said that social justice is not related to the metaphysical meaning of karbala that is related to the reappearance of imam mahdi who was mentioned in previous sacred books.. who will bring justice again?

Who said that staying idle will make the reappearance come quicker?

Who said that we will be given tawfeeq to pray to hasten the reappeanece if we stayed idle while watching injustice happening infant of us without frowining?

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Every day is Ashura and Everyday is Karbala

=

No day like your day Ya Aba Abdillah

 

I couldn't disagree more. If every day were Ashura, then there would be a day like his day... everyday would be like his day. The former saying is universalizing an event that is meant to stand unique in history. If you want to say that everyday is a jihad, and that amr bil ma`roof is everyday, then I agree with you. But Ashura was not just jihad, not just amr bil ma`roof, and it should not be relegated to just those things. Otherwise, it begs the question: what differentiates his martyrdom from those better than him? The narrations related to Husayn are very unique: those who cry for him are forgiven of all of their sins, those who visit him receive the reward of many Hajj, his sacrifice replaced Isma`il's, he chose his sacrifice over defeating Yazid, and denying his death is kufr. Husayn is not Zayd.

 

The Imams and the scholars have only said the latter statement, while the former statement is a modern folk saying.

 

Reform. It is the word that comes as translation of Islah. If the conceptual meaning differ between one nation and another it dose not mean that those who translate the quote original meant to re-invent the religion.

 

If you're going to translate a word into English, you have to know the meaning of that word, and what feelings are evoked when that word is said. The word is most prominently used to refer to a fundamental and essential change made to something to improve and modernize it, while islah means to rectify - to bring something broken back to its state of perfection.

 

You may think this discussion is semantical, but the Ahl al-Bayt mastered their eloquence. We should be more cautious than to paint Husayn with the same terminology that we do with Guevara, who was one of the biggest reformers, revolutionaries, and resistance fighters of our times. These are loaded terms that carry strong implications.

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I couldn't disagree more. If every day were Ashura, then there would be a day like his day... everyday would be like his day. The former saying is universalizing an event that is meant to stand unique in history. If you want to say that everyday is a jihad, and that amr bil ma`roof is everyday, then I agree with you. But Ashura was not just jihad, not just amr bil ma`roof, and it should not be relegated to just those things. Otherwise, it begs the question: what differentiates his martyrdom from those better than him? The narrations related to Husayn are very unique: those who cry for him are forgiven of all of their sins, those who visit him receive the reward of many Hajj, his sacrifice replaced Isma`il's, he chose his sacrifice over defeating Yazid, and denying his death is kufr. Husayn is not Zayd.

 

The Imams and the scholars have only said the latter statement, while the former statement is a modern folk saying.

Everyday is Ashura means that we should bring forward the remembrance of Hussain in our everyday activities.

Evere land is Karbala i think just being brought to complete the sentence. In either way, the sentence in Arabic dose not evoke the feelings you are trying to inject into it.

تحميل الكلام اكثر مما يحتمل.

 

You are bringing unsubstantiated argument based on semantics and irrational emotions. I won't argue over the meaning of reform but if i was the first person to translate that out of good intention, i think i wouldn't be intending to confuse Imam Hussain movement with Malcomx or whatever other personality.

Why would we?

There are many nationalistic and social movement leaders in Arab and islamic world. They are never brought up during the day of Ashura for comparison. The cause of Ahlulbayt is being carried only by Ahlulbayt and their Shia. The rest of humanity have their own causes.

 

Mother Teresa and Imam Ali.... Have you ever heard anyone making a comparison between how mother teresa helped orphans and how imam Ali helped orphans?

There is no comparison. No one bring such a caparisons. But no one is saying that taking care of orphans is only bound to imam Ali, nor anyone is saying that taking care of orphans is restricted to a time, YET when imam ali martyrdom comes, we often cry and say : Who is for the orphans after you.

We are all his orphans. Mother Teresa can't be that.

 

Your topic could be the best if only it wasn't confrontational with Tashayyu itself.

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Yeah let's not paint Imam Hussain with the ideology of past Prophets who were killed in the way of God and commanding towards justice nor like the path of Mohammad (saw) (except Mohammad (saw) was successful in victory), because you know other people wanted some justice and fought for it as well. Let's make Imam Hussain struggle a whole different thing. What a joke.

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Had there been no riwayat posted in this thread or even mentioned in our books that discuss Karbala, then your standpoint might have been valid to some extent. But there are, and I'm uncertain as to how you are able reconcile what your stating with the exegesis of those aforementioned riwayat in this thread and others in other books of ours that corroborate what is being emphasized here, especially this one:

Imam al-Baqir said: Allah تعالى sent support for al-Husayn عليه السلام until it filled that which was between the heaven and the Earth. Then he was left to choose: victory, or meeting Allah. So he chose to meet with Allah تعالى.

Notice how Al-Hussain(as) was given the choice by Allah(swt) to be victorious in defeating Shimr's(la) entire army and eventually toppling Yazid(la) from power. Yet despite that, he still chose to sacrifice himself to meet Allah by being martyred in the battle, hence as a result, Yazid still remained in power in the end based on this choice that he made. What does that part of Hussain's choice of sacrificing himself to meet Allah 'Azawajal specifically mean to you?

Again, going back to Jeremiah:

"But that day belongs to the Lord, the LORD Almighty-- a day of vengeance, for vengeance on his foes. The sword will devour till it is satisfied, till it has quenched its thirst with blood. For the Lord, ((((((((the LORD Almighty, will offer sacrifice)))))))in the land of the north by the River Euphrates." (Jeremiah 46:10)

Allah 'Azawajal has 'Ilm al-Ghayb and with His 'Im, He foretold to the nations before the comming of the prophet(saw) of a sacrifice that He will make by the Euphrates(Christians say that this refers to Jesus. But it can't be since it has been historically proven that Jesus' last moments on earth before ascending to the heavens was in Nazareth, very far from the Euphrates), and He chose Hussain to be His sacrifice there, similarly as to how He chose Isma'il to be his sacrifice when testing Ibrahim to slaughter him. Both Isma'il and Hussain accepted to sacrifice themselves for Allah.

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Had there been no riwayat posted in this thread or even mentioned in our books that discuss Karbala, then your standpoint might have been valid to some extent. But there are, and I'm uncertain as to how you are able reconcile what your stating with the exegesis of those aforementioned riwayat in this thread and others in other books of ours that corroborate what is being emphasized here, especially this one:

Imam al-Baqir said: Allah تعالى sent support for al-Husayn عليه السلام until it filled that which was between the heaven and the Earth. Then he was left to choose: victory, or meeting Allah. So he chose to meet with Allah تعالى.

Notice how Al-Hussain(as) was given the choice by Allah(swt) to be victorious in defeating Shimr's(la) entire army and eventually toppling Yazid(la) from power. Yet despite that, he still chose to sacrifice himself to meet Allah by being martyred in the battle, hence as a result, Yazid still remained in power in the end based on this choice that he made. What does that part of Hussain's choice of sacrificing himself to meet Allah 'Azawajal specifically mean to you?

 

Prophet peace be upon him was also offered a victory over Quraish when he was in Mecca. He was mocked and hurt a lot. Gabriel came down to him and asked him his permission to take the mount of Abu Qubais from its root and throw it on people of Mecca. Prophet did not allow it.

Prophet also was visited by the angel of death when he was on his death bed, the angel asked the prophet his permission to hold his soul. Prophet could have asked Allah for more days so he can clarify the confusion regarding the thursday tragedy, he didn't.

When Imam Ali was pulled from his shirt to voice his allegiance to Abu Bakr, Sayyida Fatimah was about to pray to Allah to descend his wrath upon people of Madinah. Imam Ali sent his companion, Salman alfarsi, and told him to tell her not to pray on these people.

 

Those people were powerful. They could conquer the earth on their own. Imam Ali didn't need all the 40 men, he could have prayed to Allah. Imam Hussain as well. They could have had jebriel and mikael by their side at any time.

 

Similarly, prophet Musa could have gained victory over the people in the holy land. He could struck a stone or make strange move with his stick and they could have been over flooded or taken by earthquake. Bani Israel knew it and thus were very efficient. No need to waste many people's lives over it, go you and your God and fight them then tell us to enter the holy land with you.

 

Bani Israel were logical. Why waste so many lives if things can be done with a struck from a stick?

 

Why Imam Hussain wasted 72 lives (or more if things went really in good way) if it is all about a prayer to Allah? Why then we have to cry over it if:

1- it was meant to be this way

2- it was optional and he chose to kill himself in suicidal mission?

 

What sort of leaders we do have that are bent to the hard ways all time when they could have saved us from all the hassle with a prayer?

 

 

 

Again, going back to Jeremiah:

"But that day belongs to the Lord, the LORD Almighty-- a day of vengeance, for vengeance on his foes. The sword will devour till it is satisfied, till it has quenched its thirst with blood. For the Lord, ((((((((the LORD Almighty, will offer sacrifice)))))))in the land of the north by the River Euphrates." (Jeremiah 46:10)

Allah 'Azawajal has 'Ilm al-Ghayb and with His 'Im, He foretold to the nations before the comming of the prophet(saw) of a sacrifice that He will make by the Euphrates(Christians say that this refers to Jesus. But it can't be since it has been historically proven that Jesus' last moments on earth before ascending to the heavens was in Nazareth, very far from the Euphrates), and He chose Hussain to be His sacrifice there, similarly as to how He chose Isma'il to be his sacrifice when testing Ibrahim to slaughter him. Both Isma'il and Hussain accepted to sacrifice themselves for Allah.

 

 

I can understand the sacrifice of the prophet and Imam Ali. They endured the pain to save the ignorant people from the general punishment like that happened to Gomorrah.

But Imam Hussain martyrdom brought but many hardships to shia and to ahlulbayt. More misguidance due to the prevailed dark powers. We got 1000 months without a single night of Qadr in them.

What sacrifice was it exactly?

 

 

PS

I am not saying there is no sacrifice. I know the hadiths since before this topic but I believe that you are taking the meaning of these ahadith to a wrong direction.

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