Is Suicide Allowed Under Specific Circumstances?

[firefly]

This is going to sound stupid but

Is suicide allowed under specific circumstances?

I know it is haram but maybe under dire circumstances?

Is it mentioned anywhere in islam that it is allowed like what if the only way to avoid some sin or unpleasant act which you are being forced into which you can do nothing else about, is to die- will it be justified?

Just wondering

[Repentant]

Well I would assume if you are being forced to commit a sin, you won't actually be sinning. If someone pointed a gun at your head and made you eat pork, I am pretty sure you can eat it without sinning.

 

I don't think suicide is ever permissible, not even when you are extremely sick and close to dying. But maybe someone can provide sources.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

I think suicide is only permissible when it is in order to save someone? Say for example you are on a small rubber boat with refugees and you see it is too many people in the boat and it will sink, so you jump down into the water and the boat stops sinking but you die from drowning. Or say that someone is stuck on a train rail and you jump down to throw them away from the rail but you do not have time enough to move so you get hit and die instead of the person.

[SlaveOfAllah14]

^ that isn't suicide. It is sacrifice

[laithAlIRAQI]

I've also wondered about this...

[Repentant]

^ that isn't suicide. It is sacrifice

 

I guess its Benevolent suicide? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_suicide

 

interesting topic though

[Soldiers and Saffron]

^ that isn't suicide. It is sacrifice

 

Yeah your right.

[laithAlIRAQI]

Yeah you're right.

:p

[Zarla]

No it is not allowed.

 

I think suicide is only permissible when it is in order to save someone? Say for example you are on a small rubber boat with refugees and you see it is too many people in the boat and it will sink, so you jump down into the water and the boat stops sinking but you die from drowning. Or say that someone is stuck on a train rail and you jump down to throw them away from the rail but you do not have time enough to move so you get hit and die instead of the person.

Here your initial intention would be to save someone, which may require self-sacrifice, rather than first intending to kill yourself to maintain your dignity//honor or whatever.

If one understood the purpose of life, they wouldn't force themselves out of the unpleasant situation by committing suicide. If you are forced into something, then you won't be held accountable for that act, so why commit suicide if you want to minimize or end your suffering? And everything has an end, so your situation will obviously also have an end; therefore the only option you would have is to endure patiently and with faith. We weren't brought here to lead good lives free from suffering; rather to get to know our creator and worship him. Does suicide fulfill that goal? No.

 

Murtaza Mutahhari says in his book: (This might seem a bit off-topic, but it is still relevant to the concept of life)

"Are all the pains and sufferings, which have made life so bitter for mankind today, not due to the lack of human recognition of the goal of life? Life is not bitter and unpleasant itself. It is deviation from the right path that imposes all these sufferings on mankind" (p.7)

[Einstein]

god cannot punish someone (it would be unjust, assuming god is just)) whose circumstances force him to do something. likewise, if someone's situation is beyond their capacity, god can't possibly object. it's like expecting someone to lift a 10,000kg when he can only lift 50kg; it's absurd.

[Sumerian]

Question: What does the Qur'an say about committing suicide?

Answer: Islam does not allow it under any circumstances.

 

http://www.sistani.org/english/qa/search/3704/

Edited October 15, 2015 by The Batman

[Einstein]

actually, they do allow it when it's convenient for them.

[ultra]

BRO FIREFLY ask yourself, "Did God create you and gave you all these miracles you have, so you should kill yourself? "

Don't think life to be easy. It is possible to make it easier but it will never be easy therefore this life is a test!

[~ThePond~]

actually, they do allow it when it's convenient for them.

Are you insulting the great marjas and scholars? Surely, they have more knowledge than us. I would agree that the "beneficent suicide" is halal as it is a form of sacrifice to save others. Imam Hussein (as) and his Companions (may Allah swt be pleased with them) sacrificed their life for Islam and Truth when they absolutely knew they would die facing an army of 30,000 men.

[Einstein]

@ pond;

 

i'm not explicitly insulting anyone. whether they have more knowledge or not, is both debatable and irrelevant. they allow it under certain circumstances, but they don't make it public; so we can certainly expand on their version of what's allowed.

 

regardless of what "scholars" say, there are certain basic rules in islam (shia). you must know what/how to ask them in order to get a certain answer. there's a logical law that states "no one can be responsible for what's truly beyond their capacity". that's why babies, "minors", insane persons, etc.. are not considered accountable. the same applies to any person and situation where something is truly beyond a person's capacity. god (or scholars) can't blame someone for not being able to do what they simply can't do. like my example above, god can't object to someone by saying "why didn't you lift the bus, even though i know you didn't have the strength to lift it"? same applies to committing suicide, and everything else.

 

if it's truly beyond a person's ability to continue living, no one (including god) can objectively object to that. to do so would simply be unjust.

[Ibn Al-Ja'abi]

@ pond;

 

i'm not explicitly insulting anyone. whether they have more knowledge or not, is both debatable and irrelevant. they allow it under certain circumstances, but they don't make it public; so we can certainly expand on their version of what's allowed.

 

regardless of what "scholars" say, there are certain basic rules in islam (shia). you must know what/how to ask them in order to get a certain answer. there's a logical law that states "no one can be responsible for what's truly beyond their capacity". that's why babies, "minors", insane persons, etc.. are not considered accountable. the same applies to any person and situation where something is truly beyond a person's capacity. god (or scholars) can't blame someone for not being able to do what they simply can't do. like my example above, god can't object to someone by saying "why didn't you lift the bus, even though i know you didn't have the strength to lift it"? same applies to committing suicide, and everything else.

 

if it's truly beyond a person's ability to continue living, no one (including god) can objectively object to that. to do so would simply be unjust.

 

Hi, this is the "Islamic Laws & Jurisprudence" forum where you have to bring evidence and not just give your opinions. And the Imams are against you on this issue:

 

محمد بن علي بن الحسين بإسناده عن الحسن بن محبوب . عن أبي ولاد الحناط ، قال : سمعت أباعبدالله ( عليه السلام ) يقول : من قتل نفسه متعمدا فهو في نار جهنم خالدا فيها

 

I heard Imam Sadiq (as) saying: "Whoever kills himself purposely is in the fire of hell, abiding therein forever."

 

(Wasa'il Al-Shi'a)

[Einstein]

my friend, it's not enough to cite an ayah or hadith, as anyone who ever studied even one day in "hawza" knows. there are conflicting verses and narrations, and it's not the average person's job to extract a ruling (make a conclusion). that said, logical laws (even among scholars) can't be challenged by any verse or narration. if 100 ayas say 1+1=6, those ayas must be dismissed, or interpreted differently.

 

take care.

[tendersoul]

Salam,

 

According to what I have learnt from my teacher, yes, it is allowed under certain circumstances. For example, If a woman is to be gang raped  and then burnt. A woman in such circumstance can kill herself, instead of going under horrible humiliation and dishonor.Another example, it is better to kill yourself , if  it would be obvious that Daesh were to kill you in the most humiliating manner.

Edited October 16, 2015 by tendersoul

[Bakir]

What is religion for you Einstein? Because if it is a mere tool of utilitarian power, then I get your point (and you could quote some authors for such an argument, such as Marvin Harris).

For others, religion is a language. Merely an inherited language to address certain ideas that cannot be described with common languages.

And for others, religion is a philosophy, a guide for life and their purpose in it. Like other philosophies, in this case. In such a view, there is absolutely no room for suicide aa we understand it (the act of killing oneself due to extreme suffering and not being able to see any solution). But eveeything here depends on the eye of the beholder, the fact someone (heck, even if it is all of us) don't find a solution for something, it is no reason to give up.

I have quoted in countless ocassions my favourite thinker, my beloved Camus. In the myth of Sysyphus (a very interesting book for this thread) he defends that the first question of philosophy is the question of suicide. Shall I give another sip to my cup of coffee or ahoot myself right now? This is the primary question. And he ends up presenting the marvellous myth of Sysyphus. He is condemned by gods to an exhausting task, of pointless nature, for eternity. Yet Camus argues one has to think Sysyphus is happy, as it is in his struggle where he can find his own meaning and harmony with his eternal punishment. No matter what the struggle is, never give up until your last breath. This is a philosophy, a way to live this life, a principle and a solid standpoint. We can doubt the authority of philosophy of religion by its history, as some authors such as Marvin Harris can argue by showing the political and social manipulation. But for the sake of these days, figures like Husayn ibn Ali (as) should remind us there are people who stand for principles and ideas, people who should be a very valuable proof for us that we shall never forget.

[diyaa110]

Salam,

 

Another example, it is better to kill yourself , if  it would be obvious that Daesh were to kill you in the most humiliating manner.

 

But we don't have any such examples from our Islamic heroes.. who knew that they will be killed and that their bodies will be mistreated or mutilated yet they didn't choose to kill themselves ? A lot of times people who are on the verge of getting killed get saved at the last moment, maybe it is about giving that moment a chance and accepting what Allah has chosen for us, whether its life or death.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

:P

 

Hehe, you think its funny when people confess they are wrong? I think its funny when people do not.

[tendersoul]

But we don't have any such examples from our Islamic heroes.. who knew that they will be killed and that their bodies will be mistreated or mutilated yet they didn't choose to kill themselves ? A lot of times people who are on the verge of getting killed get saved at the last moment, maybe it is about giving that moment a chance and accepting what Allah has chosen for us, whether its life or death.

Salam Diya,

A woman knows what will happen to her in those situations. A group of men or Daesh...this is very unique situation .

None of our holy ladies went thru this situation Alhamdulilah.

This is not my opinion but what I have learnt from my teacher.

Edited October 19, 2015 by tendersoul

[Abu Hadi]

This is going to sound stupid but

Is suicide allowed under specific circumstances?

I know it is haram but maybe under dire circumstances?

Is it mentioned anywhere in islam that it is allowed like what if the only way to avoid some sin or unpleasant act which you are being forced into which you can do nothing else about, is to die- will it be justified?

Just wondering

 

If someone is forcing you to do a sin, it is not a sin. 

Allah(s.w.a) will punish the person who is forcing you and not you. 

But force means real force, like they are threatening your life, your family, etc

and you know that they have the means and intention to carry out the threat. 

 

Suicide is never allowed under any circumstances. 

[Einstein]

Suicide is never allowed under any circumstances. 

 

nothing, is never allowed under any circumstances. whether scholars tell you that or not, however, is another matter.

[Abu Hadi]

nothing, is never allowed under any circumstances. whether scholars tell you that or not, however, is another matter.

 

 

 

OK. Then give me an example of a situation where you believe suicide is allowed, then we can discusss. 

[Einstein]

OK. Then give me an example of a situation where you believe suicide is allowed, then we can discusss. 

 

basically, any truly unbearable situation should warrant suicide. the phrase "إنّ التكليف بما لا يطاق أمر قبيح عقلا" roughly translated it means "placing undue responsibility/obligation is logically outrageous". it's not the scholars' (any marji' etc.) job to decide whether something qualifies as unbearable (undue obligation) or not; except for themselves. they have no means of determining it for others.

 

this should reprent shia's position on the matter, otherwise my personal view is much more progressive than this.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Einstein

[Bakir]

If you have ever overcame a tough depression in which you have suffered from very real (and deadly scary) suicidal thoughts, you would be a bit less "progressive" as you call it. People who face such thoughts are very sure, in the very moment they have those thoughts, that they truly have no way to escape the terrible fate awaiting them. When probably, most likely, there is a way out. Telling this as I have seen my own brother falling from a height of 10 meters. He could survive and now he's doing much better. Problems are problems and there are solutions we can search for instead of surrendering.

There is nothing progressive in death, but in life.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Bakir

[tendersoul]

If you have ever overcame a tough depression in which you have suffered from very real (and deadly scary) suicidal thoughts, you would be a bit less "progressive" as you call it. People who face such thoughts are very sure, in the very moment they have those thoughts, that they truly have no way to escape the terrible fate awaiting them. When probably, most likely, there is a way out. Telling this as I have seen my own brother falling from a height of 10 meters. He could survive and now he's doing much better. Problems are problems and there are solutions we can search for instead of surrendering.

There is nothing progressive in death, but in life.

Salam,

 

Gang Rape , the story of the indian girl who made head lines...not only raped but very unhumanely disfigured?

 

The punishment for rape in Iran is death.

 

A woman going thru such a situation even if Alive is living a horrible dead life. Imagine her being awife of a shia man. 

 

I wonder how many shia men will be able to live together and even try to be intimate with his wife after such an incident.

 

I heard a true story from a shia co worker that his friend's wife was raped in saudi Arabia ,and he could never be initimate with her after that...and his life changed forever.

 

Years ago in iran their was a serial rapist in iran who raped and burnt over 10 of his victims and talked very cooly about it on TV. He was hanged several times in public.

[Einstein]

Years ago in iran their was a serial rapist in iran who raped and burnt over 10 of his victims and talked very cooly about it on TV. He was hanged several times in public.

 

how can one be hanged more than once?

[tendersoul]

Like They take him up once...leave him there for a while...than bring him down...do this several times... like torturing, this is what i heard almost 18 years back.

Edited October 20, 2015 by tendersoul

[Einstein]

If you have ever overcame a tough depression in which you have suffered from very real (and deadly scary) suicidal thoughts, you would be a bit less "progressive" as you call it. People who face such thoughts are very sure, in the very moment they have those thoughts, that they truly have no way to escape the terrible fate awaiting them. When probably, most likely, there is a way out. Telling this as I have seen my own brother falling from a height of 10 meters. He could survive and now he's doing much better. Problems are problems and there are solutions we can search for instead of surrendering.

There is nothing progressive in death, but in life.

 

what about the other 99% of people who never truly recover from chronic depression? do they just wait around because there's a 1% chance that they might get better?

 

what about problems other than depression? like tendersoul mentioned, being a rape victim, disfigurement, permanent paralysis, etc.? just because some of these people have "coped" with their respective situations, doesn't mean everyone can.

 

are you honestly saying that there is no such thing as "truly unbearable and persistent" circumstances? if there is, i rest my case.

[Bakir]

There are also people who have been strong enough to overcome a rape. Heck, if people suicided because of this, probably many of us wouldn't be alive today. In the past it was rather very common.

A gang rape is a possible example of the type of event that could lead to the depression I was talking about in my former post, in which you see no light at the end of the tunnel.

Surviving a rape is not easy. One would get amazed what the human mind is able to do to defend itself from a tragic accident ("deleting" the experience completely from your memory, or making it blurry as if you werent sure if it actually happen or was just a bad dream). It is sad, cruel, and thinking about it may either lead you to extreme anger or just start crying non-stop. But it is important to forget. Really forget, because it is an unhealthy past experience that is not useful for us in anyway. It is harmful, ashaming and... just terrible. And it's not easy to even talk about it. But there is a lot more in life than torturing ourselves because of sick cruel people. If a husband cannot forget such an experience that happened to his wife, then I would be happy if his wife would divorce him and start from scratch. Because reminding the event is like the worst you can do.

Einstein, I'm not saying there isnt such a situation, I'm holding a standpoint.

We have to fight and do our best till the last breath.

[tendersoul]

Salam ,

Leading to depression is an understatment for A gang rape victim and being burnt or disfigured .

It leads to a death of the soul. A woman will be a living corpse.

Even worse situations are when men have to witness gang rape of his wife.

In this scenerio , I think most men would rather see their wife split their wrists and kill herself than to be a witness to such barbaric and sub human act.

Sorry for addressing such a scenrio , as these things do happen in times of war specially.

No sane woman or lets add religious muslim woman who observes hijab ( because we are talking on a shia muslim platform ) would suicide unless in such dire situation , and I doubt God will punish such a person , in this situation.

It has been said God is nearest to a person when they shiver from fear/ when frightened.

This woman probably would not be in the right frame of mind to pray any more.

Atleast in the next world she would be able to be free from this tragedy and worship her lord in peace.

One of the victims father of the iranian rapists gave a very heart breaking speech regarding his daughter who was a decent lady.

Edited October 21, 2015 by tendersoul

[Bakir]

Still tender, one has to keep alive, forget in order to survive. We want to be alive and struggle till the end.

You may be right, and we may not be able to overcome such an experience, but maybe we can try to forget it or put it in a corner of our mind where it doesn't get annoying.

I can't speak for being burnt or disfigured, but as for the others, well... I can say one can overcome it, and it gets better.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Bakir

[tendersoul]

It is very easy to say forget in these situations. My friends daughter deals with such victims of abuse.

You cannot tell such a victim to simply forget( also depending on personality some are more fragile some are stronger)

She is already dead. Just living dead ( again depending on personality and fragility )

God is more merciful to punish a person in such a situation.

I am just human and would not judge such a woman who decided to end her life in this ruthless situation.

God will be definitely more understanding and more compassionate to such a person.

Edited October 21, 2015 by tendersoul