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In the Name of God بسم الله

Free Will Vs. Time Of Death?

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Sallam Alykum,

 

I have an interesting question that I don't have an answer to.

 

So we believe that we have free will and we also believe that everyone's time of death is in the control of Allah  s w t. So if someone decides of free will to kill another, how do these two things not contradict one another?

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Sallam Alykum,

 

I have an interesting question that I don't have an answer to.

 

So we believe that we have free will and we also believe that everyone's time of death is in the control of Allah  s w t. So if someone decides of free will to kill another, how do these two things not contradict one another?

If someone tries to hang themselves in their home, sincerely trying to commit suicide, that is them using their free will right?  But what if God doesn't want them to die at that point?  Maybe some kids are playing catch in the street, and somehow their ball ends up going off course and breaking the window of the man hanging there.  It just so happens that one of the kids has integrity and goes to apologize, and he sees that man hanging himself and calls 911.  Maybe someone who knows first aid got delayed at work, and while walking home comes across someone getting robbed and stabbed.  If he had been on time he would've missed that.  Maybe someone aims a gun at you and the bullet is a dud, or maybe his gun jams, maybe as luck would have it someone else nearby is carrying their gun and is able to shoot the bad guy before the bad guy shoots you.

 

In my opinion, it isn't so much that God controls everything that happens, but he allows things to happen, and is capable of interceding when He sees fit.

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Salam,

 

Look at the death of Imam Hussain عليه‌ السلام

 

His story is a great example of your question; in relation (to), being murdered, but there was a greater significance to his death (and how he made usage of his freewill).

 

The way Imam Hussain (as) used his freewill; decreed by Allah SWT, has impacted Islam in one of the most beautiful ways by his self-less contribution.

 

Thank you and Mash2Allah, beloved Imam Hussain (as) :wub: 

 

Wasalam, AB313 :)

Edited by AhlulBayt_313
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Salam,

 

Look at the death of Imam Hussain عليه‌ السلام

 

His story is a great example of your question; in relation (to), being murdered, but there was a greater significance to his death (and how he made usage of his freewill).

 

The way Imam Hussain (as) used his freewill; decreed by Allah SWT, has impacted Islam in one of the most beautiful ways by his self-less contribution.

 

Thank you and Mash2Allah, beloved Imam Hussain (as) :wub: 

 

Wasalam, AB313 :)

 

Then what determined the death? free will or per-determined death?

If someone tries to hang themselves in their home, sincerely trying to commit suicide, that is them using their free will right?  But what if God doesn't want them to die at that point?  Maybe some kids are playing catch in the street, and somehow their ball ends up going off course and breaking the window of the man hanging there.  It just so happens that one of the kids has integrity and goes to apologize, and he sees that man hanging himself and calls 911.  Maybe someone who knows first aid got delayed at work, and while walking home comes across someone getting robbed and stabbed.  If he had been on time he would've missed that.  Maybe someone aims a gun at you and the bullet is a dud, or maybe his gun jams, maybe as luck would have it someone else nearby is carrying their gun and is able to shoot the bad guy before the bad guy shoots you.

 

In my opinion, it isn't so much that God controls everything that happens, but he allows things to happen, and is capable of interceding when He sees fit.

 

But what about those who do contemplate suicide and successfully carry it out. Them contemplating suicide was free-will, but the death that occurred is per-determined. So for the hundreds of millions of people who have been murdered by other people or who have committed suicide, how was free-will and per-determination lined up so perfectly that one occurs right after the other.

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Dearest brother,

 

Allah SWT is All-Knowing, the Most Merciful, All-Encompassing of Free-will, in this life and the Hereafter.

 

The free-will Imam Hussain (A.S) used; in correlation to his death, his (bodily-death) wasn't the highlighted importance, it was his soul (i.e., spirit) that was challenged. Be it free-will and pre-determination by Allah SWT, it's what he did with both of those (systems) that elevated his soul to a higher place for the Hereafter.

 

If I have time, Insha`Allah, I will post Hadith for you :) if you are interested.

 

Fii `Aman Allah

Edited by AhlulBayt_313
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Dearest brother,

 

Allah SWT is All-Knowing, the Most Merciful, All-Encompassing of Free-will, in this life and the Hereafter.

 

The free-will Imam Hussain (A.S) used; in correlation to his death, his (bodily-death) wasn't the highlighted importance, it was his soul (i.e., spirit) that was challenged. Be it free-will and pre-determination by Allah SWT, it's what he did with both of those (systems) that elevated his soul to a higher place for the Hereafter.

 

If I have time, Insha`Allah, I will post Hadith for you :) if you are interested.

 

Fii `Aman Allah

 

Okay well maybe Imam Hussein Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã is a special case. Let us examine just an ordinary human being who might a) contemplate suicide and actually carried it out, (b contemplate suicide but fail, c) contemplate murder and carry it out, d) contemplate murder and fail.

 

Each of these offers a different relation between free-will and the per-determined time of death.

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Then what determined the death? free will or per-determined death?

But what about those who do contemplate suicide and successfully carry it out. Them contemplating suicide was free-will, but the death that occurred is per-determined. So for the hundreds of millions of people who have been murdered by other people or who have committed suicide, how was free-will and per-determination lined up so perfectly that one occurs right after the other.

Salam,

You can read more in al- kafi in the chapter of God's will.

Al-kafi

H 385, Ch. 26, h 4

Abu al-Hassan (a.s.) who has said the following.

"Allah has two wills and two wishes. He has a definite will and an intended will.

He prohibits but He wants it. He commands but He does not want it. Consider that He prohibited Adam and his spouse from eating of the tree but He wanted them to eat. Had He not wanted their wish would not have surpassed Allah’s wish.

He commanded Ibrahim to slaughter Ishaq but He did not want it to happen. Had He wanted it the wish of Ibrahim would not have surpassed the wish of Allah, the Most High."

******************************************************

Chapter on Predestination, Fate and the Middle road in between

H 397, Ch. 31, h 1

Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad and Ishaq ibn Muhammad and others, in a marfu‘ manner, who have said the following.

"Once in Kufa, after Amirul Mu’minin’s return from Siffin, a man came to him and sat with his legs folded underneath in front of the Imam (a.s.) and said,

"O Amirul Mu’minin, tell us about our journey against the people of Sham (Syria). Was it because of Allah’s decree and determination or not?" Amir al-Mu’minin said, "Yes, O Shaykh, every hill that you climbed and every valley that you traversed was because of the decree and the determination of Allah."

The Shaykh then said, "Will my tiring efforts be counted in the sight of Allah, O Amir al-Mu’minin?" The Imam said, "Be patient, O Shaykh. I swear to Allah that He will grant you a great reward for your journey wherever you traveled, for your stay wherever you rested and for your return when you were headed back. In none of these conditions that you went through you were coerced or compelled."

The Shaykh then said, "How would we not be considered compelled or coerced when all of our journey, rest and return were because if the decree and determination of Allah?"

The Imam said, "Do You think it was all due to unavoidable decree and binding determination?

Had it been so all the reward, punishment, commandments, orders and warnings from Allah would remain invalid and meaningless. The promise and warnings would fall apart. No one could blame the sinners and no one would praise the people of good deeds.

The sinners could have been more deserving than the people of good deeds and the latter ones could have deserved more punishment. Such can only be the belief of the idol worshippers, the enemies of the Beneficent and of the party of Satan and determinist of this nation (Ummah) and her Zoarastarians.

"Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, has obligated people on the basis of their freedom and choice and has prohibited as a warning. He rewards a great deal for very little of deeds.

Disobedience to Him is not due to His weakness or His defeat. Obedience to Him is not for compulsion and coercion. He has not given (the power to people) in the absolute sense. He has not created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them without a purpose.

He has not sent the messengers and the prophets to warn and promise people just to play a joke. Such could only be the belief of the unbelievers. Woe is for the unbelievers to suffer in the fire."

The Shaykh then recited the following lines that he compose at the spot.

You are the Imam for whose obedience we do hope for Salvation a day from the Beneficent, and forgiveness Explain you did our issue that was vague May your Lord reward the good with good.

Wasalam

Edited by tendersoul
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salam tendersoul,

tis very good to have you back...

#8, what do you mean Allah(swt) commanded Ibrahim(as) to slaughter Ishaq(as)???

ws

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salam tendersoul,

tis very good to have you back...

#8, what do you mean Allah(swt) commanded Ibrahim(as) to slaughter Ishaq(as)???

ws

I think she wrote that by mistake, it should be Hazrat Ismail (a.s) instead of Ishaq (a.s)
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Your problem is that you do not know that we do not believe in 100% free will. More like 50%. Imam Ali was asked about the extent of free will and he told the questioner to lift one foot then he told him to proceed and lift the other one too, then he said that is the extent of our freedom.

 

As for murder, no one can get murdered or killed until and unless their divinely ordained time is also close.

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As for murder, no one can get murdered or killed until and unless their divinely ordained time is also close.

 

I just skimmed through the replies and found this one to be pretty short and accurate. There are ridiculous failed suicide news stories, from people surviving a gunshot in the head to landing unscathed from a building jump.

 

An individual decides to commit murder or suicide on a certain day, hour, minute, second of a timeline. A succesful attempt means it was permitted, decreed and ultimately validated by Allah before that individual was even born that the time and means of death happened the way they had to. Now the average atheist will point out that it is a case of predetermination so how is the executioner to be held responsible? Every individual has a limited capacity, the free will attached to it decides to an extent how much of the capacity it will take/use. Out of all the possibilities and options present, the individual chose murder/suicide. That choice happened to fall in line with the time of death decreed by Allah so it was permitted and Allah takes the soul and keeps it. 
 
[39:42] Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.

 

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I just skimmed through the replies and found this one to be pretty short and accurate. There are ridiculous failed suicide news stories, from people surviving a gunshot in the head to landing unscathed from a building jump.

 

An individual decides to commit murder or suicide on a certain day, hour, minute, second of a timeline. A succesful attempt means it was permitted, decreed and ultimately validated by Allah before that individual was even born that the time and means of death happened the way they had to. Now the average atheist will point out that it is a case of predetermination so how is the executioner to be held responsible? Every individual has a limited capacity, the free will attached to it decides to an extent how much of the capacity it will take/use. Out of all the possibilities and options present, the individual chose murder/suicide. That choice happened to fall in line with the time of death decreed by Allah so it was permitted and Allah takes the soul and keeps it. 
 
[39:42] Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.

 

 

Salam,

 

The average life span of a human being which Allah designed humans according to Imam sadiq (a.s) is 120 years old.

 

Al- Kafi has explained "Will" in length.

 

Very briefy, "Will/wish" is a creation of Allah, thru this creation of will we can will. If he had not created "will" we would not have been able to do anything.

 

It is a good read to understand this topic more.

 

Hence with free will we can either choose to use it in a positive manner or negative.

 

 

you can check the chapter on God's will.

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