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Muslimthought97

Is Allah Too Harsh?

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On 9/12/2015 at 9:46 PM, Ali_ said:

Yes Allah will throw 80% of people if there is that much kufr, and you say islam takes alot of pleasures in life, well Allah created us and he can do anything for us, and what is wrong with the 2 verses above?

and what do you mean by weird rules, who puts rules, a master or a slave? who are we to say weird and rules??? What kind of weird rules? no eating pork or no drinking wine?

and how do you say atheist are not bad, that who wastes his time in dancing and whatever isnt bad

Yes, but Allah didn't say it's haram to question your religion, did he? Besides, does that at all make you religious if you haven't questioned your religion? It's good to question your religion because Islam isn't a really simple concept for everyone to take in otherwise the world would've been muslim. We have rules to keep us away from worldly pleasures because God knows what we do not and that being said God knows the psychology of human beings. Try and stay away from worldly pleasures and see what difference it makes to your way of life and how you feel. It's similar to Ramadan, you feel nourished after fasting. And also, taking Ramadan as an example, Ramadan is like a refresh button for us. It's good for our bodies. There are underlying reasons for things god has placed as rules for us, to keep us safe - be that physically or mentally. 

Not all atheists are bad people - thats just like saying all muslims are terrorists. Only bad/inhumane people are bad people. 
 

Additionally, the fear of Allah is a vital part of being a muslim (submitting your will to the lord). It's like being afraid of a ruler who can do anything to you and your living circumstances because at the end of the day everything is in God's hands. There's so much poverty and bad living conditions around the world, without all of this no one would bow down to anything or any ruler. Therefore, it only makes sense that God makes the punishment harsh to make us fear him. 


Adding on to that, like the quote says, "How strange is man that when he is afraid of something he runs away from it, but when he is afraid of Allah, he gets closer to Him.". For me, I think the fear of Allah is the thing that really brings your heart closer to him and to love him because alhamdulilah Allah has given me a roof above my head and a safe place to pray and somewhere to educate myself. I'd like to think Allah has really shown me his kindness, in this difficult world. 

Heh heh, okie. That's all. 

 

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God is not harsh, God is God. He makes the rules. It is up to us to realize those rules and follow.

I'm not a fan of hadith any more than I am a fan of Christian doctrines. "Man made" harsh rules to scare you into conformance does nothing for your soul.

How can you love a God that you constantly fear will destroy you? 

A man who is beaten into submission does not comply for the sake of pleasing the master, but to avoid more beatings.

That's as awkward as forcing rote worship, regardless of which religion. Under the clergy's thumb is nowhere. 

 

 

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On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 5:14 PM, HayderM said:

So do you think Allah is too harsh with his punishment to people who disbelieve? Because to be honest no matter how much mercy you have, it means nothing for someone who dosent buy into any of it so its a pointless attribute to a non-believer, but then you release an 'unimaginable' wrath onto them in the hereafter for it. What are your opinions?

That's just the problem, the non-believers do buy into 'Mercy' but they choose to ignore the full flex of it by defying it's source. It only appears to be pointless because the non-believer chooses to eat away into Mercy, compassion, offerings, security, etc and in return is stern in his/her own ways to deny reflection of ones own purpose.

They choose to abide by Gods commands in various ways but fall short of gratefulness in identifying God Himself. They choose to identify the Mercy of Life itself and its abundant pleasures but seek not to appease the One who offered such provisions. They recognize their existence in awe of nothingness to something, defying logic, yet the signs are clear of the Eternal Being. Prophets after Prophets, Guides after Guides, Word after Word, sacrifices after sacrifices, what more does Man need to find solace in truth? What more should God offer to Man until he comes to his senses? Where do we draw the line to stop making excuses for the self applauded ignorant?

They pay homage to what is not worthy of reverence whilst acknowledging its uncertainty or are certain to defy certainty simply because they can. Some treat matters of Religion or absolute submission to God as a joke. Not even worth a look. Others, zealously displeasured with the very mention of 'God & Scripture' have their eyes overly clouded to see the truth but as soon as they fork out something, out of context, they run a mile with it, as if they hit a jackpot.

I cannot for the life of me accept any argument which suggests that God did not offer a hand, or one hand too many, to non-believers. It would make sense if such people were completely oblivious, but they know and choose to reject.

Isn't it strange that all reverts/converts say the same thing 'they always knew or felt something'....maybe the unbeliever should listen or respond to those feelings opposed to seeking excuses to hastily deny the common approach. 

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22 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

How can you love a God that you constantly fear will destroy you? 

Uhm... But that's the thing, technically God can do anything therefore 'destroying' you would also be easy for God to do. So why do people still love God? Even though he can destroy you and at any time he wishes to?

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1 hour ago, Karban said:

Uhm... But that's the thing, technically God can do anything therefore 'destroying' you would also be easy for God to do. So why do people still love God? Even though he can destroy you and at any time he wishes to?

'Destroy' can have a number of connotations, amongst ruining, intending a form of aggression, etc. The proper reference would be 'Even though he may take your life at any time'. Destruction also implies 'complete elimination' or ending ones existence in its entirety. Whereas Life in the physical realm is no less than a Journey and at some point the Almighty will determine your journey-end, only to begin the next phase. This period of transition is testimony to Gods mercy and therefore it is up to you to determine your place. 

'.....any time he wishes'?

Do you not trust in God to be fair? to be Just? Or are you suggesting He (swt) acts without reason, short of justification?

The Word of God informs otherwise.

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9 minutes ago, saas said:

'Destroy' can have a number of connotations, amongst ruining, intending a form of aggression, etc. The proper reference would be 'Even though he may take your life at any time'. Destruction also implies 'complete elimination' or ending ones existence in its entirety. Whereas Life in the physical realm is no less than a Journey and at some point the Almighty will determine your journey-end, only to begin the next phase. This period of transition is testimony to Gods mercy and therefore it is up to you to determine your place. 

'.....any time he wishes'?

Do you not trust in God to be fair? to be Just? Or are you suggesting He (swt) acts without reason, short of justification?

The Word of God informs otherwise.

Ahuuuu. You know what I meant. I trust God to be fair. But I've just got concern as to why God would place us on this earth anyway, if he knew it would be full of a lot of bad things? Idk, sometimes I feel like that.  

But anyway, Of course he acts with justification - thanks for that actually... 

But I just don't understand why God would create this whole universe anyway? Why did he make.... this? What's the justification for this world?

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Brother I have been down that road a few times too. I have to admit, for me those thoughts or reservations remained fruitfully healthy. It's simple:  'acceptance'. When something is not in your jurisdiction, nor can the mind envision its Making or comprehend its purpose, then only take what is in your control, what you can see and comprehend. God did not consult with you when offering you life and nor Shall he consult with you when calling upon your soul. You just have to accept your reality and trust in God, trust that he is Worthy of Worship as informed by the most trusted of agents. Sometimes we tend to find or challenge God only through suffering which is by far our greatest error. Try seeking him in moments of fortunate times, happiness, appreciation, etc and everything will appear different.

It would be too easy to say this World is just a test where the subject will appreciate the rewards (subsequently). When the Test itself benefits me in this life and the next, both physically and spiritually and defines my perfect character (which I am far from), then this life can be nothing but a blessing. Unfortunately 'death' is not greeted and we are too consumed with worldly matters that we often forget death as the companion of Life. It's not so ugly when Life identifies the companionship of death in Love of God. Those who failed to understand this love between the Maker and Made are quite simply the very reason why our World appears so ugly and demanding. If appearances are deceiving, try looking at your world without the 'bad things' brand of raybans and you too may appreciate the disclosure.

 

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2 hours ago, Karban said:

Ahuuuu. You know what I meant. I trust God to be fair. But I've just got concern as to why God would place us on this earth anyway, if he knew it would be full of a lot of bad things? Idk, sometimes I feel like that.  

But anyway, Of course he acts with justification - thanks for that actually... 

But I just don't understand why God would create this whole universe anyway? Why did he make.... this? What's the justification for this world?

You will know...in time.

In the mean time it's good to recogize that if you believe in a God, His first wish is that you seek Him as He is. We spend all too much time "Humanizing" God and holding Him to human standards. 

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On 12/18/2015 at 8:15 AM, HayderM said:

Sorry if i seem to be reviving an old discussion, 

But my point is that yes the mercy is infinite HOWEVER it is absolutely USELESS if someone dosent believe in it, when you bring someone a religion with concepts of (Burak i think) Flying horses, Graves that widen or squeeze the mothers milk out of you, Heavens and Hell that cant be witnessed, Devils that run around the earth, i think you get the idea none of this has any evidence which would lead people to disbelieving.

So i do believe in Allah but i question the Justice system, i know the benefits to every prohibited thing in Islam so thats not my problem

My PROBLEM is that if i died atheist simple because i cannot seem to see the existence of God i will burn in Hell,

Islam says either Hell/Heaven, my friend denies all religions but leads a very ethical and good life so will he be sent to Hell? Or maybe he will go to heaven? The only difference between us is i Pray he dosent and he drinks, if he goes Hell it would be unfair to him and if he goes Heaven (not saying im going) it would be unfair on me if i performed all my obligations? The answer to this question is what i want to know.

If the person was unaware of Islam i.e. not taught the proper message or encountered the message in an intimidating way the person will be judged by his or her sins. There are plenty of examples of non Muslims going to heaven within Islamic history.

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On 12/6/2015 at 8:14 AM, kamyar said:

Aleykum Salam,

When the data is incorrect, the conclusion would be incorrect too.

Why do you think Allah would punish someone for refusing to accept something which isn't regarded as truth for them? Allah, better than us, knows what is going on in our mind and heart, and His judgement will be based on our situation.

The term Muslim/muslim can be applied to two groups:

1) Those who believe in Islam: Muslim.

2) Those who assume what they believe/don't believe in is based on the truth, even if they may be wrong, but they are submitted to what they think is correct. They are muslim too.

Read the paragraph below which is quoted from Descartes:

I don't say Christianity is definitely the best religion which exists in the whole world. But I would say that among the ones I know and have access to, Christianity is the best one. I am not at war with the truth. Maybe somewhere else in the world there is a religion which is better than Christianity.

 And then he picks Iran as an example and says:

Who knows? Maybe there is a religion in Iran that is better than Christianity.

Shahid Motahhari in his book Divine justice, while quoting the parts above from Descartes, says:

These kinds of people can't be called Kafir, because they haven't had a hostile approach. They don't intend to cover the truth. They are intrinsically muslim. Although they can't be called Muslim, they aren't Kafir either.

The reason I (Shahid Motahari) used Descartes as an example is that if he was honest concerning what he was saying and was submitted to the truth, and on the other hand he had no access to the truth, He was intrinsically a muslim.

And then he (Shahid Motahari) uses Quranic verses and ahadith as well to support this idea.

For more information, read the book Divine Justice by Shahid Motahhari. Unfortunately I couldn't find it's translation in English on the internet.

One of the best posts I've read. Jazak Allah

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On 11/8/2016 at 8:14 PM, Pearl178 said:

One of the best posts I've read. Jazak Allah

That's sad the book isn't available online. The last chapter of the book covers this issue very precisely and meticulously. At least, I recommend those who know Farsi download and read it:

http://motahari.ir/fa/content/185

 

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8 hours ago, kamyar said:

That's sad the book isn't available online. The last chapter of the book covers this issue very precisely and meticulously. At least, I recommend those who know Farsi download and read it:

http://motahari.ir/fa/content/185

 

Is there an Arabic translation ? I can't read Farsi :( 

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11 hours ago, Pearl178 said:

Is there an Arabic translation ? I can't read Farsi :( 

I just searched and found out the book is translated to Arabic and is available online.

The Arabic translation in PDF can be downloaded here:

http://alfeker.net/library.php?id=823

Here is also a collection of Shahid Motahari's works translated into Arabic:

http://www.room-alghadeer.net/vb/showthread.php?t=24811

@E.L King, you may want to read it.

 

The book is translated into English as well, but I couldn't find a soft copy of it:

https://www.amazon.com/Divine-Justice-Murtada-Mutahhari/dp/0934905533

Maybe Hajj @Muhammed Ali has a soft copy?

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8 hours ago, kamyar said:

I just searched and found out the book is translated to Arabic and is available online.

The Arabic translation in PDF can be downloaded here:

http://alfeker.net/library.php?id=823

Here is also a collection of Shahid Motahari's works translated into Arabic:

http://www.room-alghadeer.net/vb/showthread.php?t=24811

@E.L King, you may want to read it.

 

The book is translated into English as well, but I couldn't find a soft copy of it:

https://www.amazon.com/Divine-Justice-Murtada-Mutahhari/dp/0934905533

Maybe Hajj @Muhammed Ali has a soft copy?

https://www.al-islam.org/divine-justice-or-the-problem-of-evil-javad-shayvard/foreword

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On 13 September 2015 at 2:14 AM, HayderM said:

So my question is an atheist technically isnt a bad person, people who deny the Quran and religion arent bad they just were not convinced that the religion is 100% true (i still doubt it too sometimes) and is such a punishment really necessary? I mean you have to admit, Islam isnt the most 'convincing' considering it asks you to take away many pleasures in life and yet then imposes worship and the human is designed with an ego so will have a feeling to reject it and on top of that, you bring the hell fire stories to seal the deal... Is Allah seriously going to throw like 80% of the world into hellfire? And dosent that show that the human is a failed creation? 

 

So if i was born into an atheist family im quite sure my brain (the way it works) would never accept Islam and even though im born in a Muslim family, doubts still exist not things like is Allah true, but is it necessary to have this and that and weird rules, etc.

A sincere person finding the truth whether it be an atheist or anyone else and dies struggling to find the truth, utilising his faculties that Allah Swt gave him is different than one who is ignorant in the sight of Allah Swt.

Once, the companions said to Prophet Mohammad (Sawa) that a man is going to go to hell as he is a non-Muslim. Prophet Mohammad (Sawa) explained to them: "Are you  ‏مالك يوم الدين Master of The Day of Judgement?" 

Allahu 3alam who goes to hell even amongst our own selves or our community. We can only do our best which is all He (Swt) wants us to do, to fulfil the potential He gave us and leave the rest to Him.

May Allah Swt preserve us all and save us from the hell-fire or painful destiny.

‏اللهم صلى على محمد وال محمد

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Salaam Aleykum,

 

As we know only Allah swt is Eternal, Forever Existing.

Upon death, we can only go back to that which is Eternal, ie Allah

Therefore, upon moment of death, those who do not believe in Allah and therefore do not believe in the Eternal, it will feel as if Eternal presence with Allah is something bad.

On the other hand, a Believer who believes Allah is Eternal and knows this, mashallah eternal presence will be [as a] Paradise.

And Allah knows best

Edited by DutchSeeker
I don't know the answer, this is my personal guess, therefore the edit

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On 9/12/2015 at 6:14 PM, HayderM said:

Salam everyone,

 

 

 

 

When reading the Quran i come across multiple things that say things along the lines like:

 

52_16.png
Sahih International
[Enter to] burn therein; then be patient or impatient - it is all the same for you. You are only being recompensed [for] what you used to do."
52_14.png
Sahih International
"This is the Fire which you used to deny.

 

So my question is an atheist technically isnt a bad person, people who deny the Quran and religion arent bad they just were not convinced that the religion is 100% true (i still doubt it too sometimes) and is such a punishment really necessary? I mean you have to admit, Islam isnt the most 'convincing' considering it asks you to take away many pleasures in life and yet then imposes worship and the human is designed with an ego so will have a feeling to reject it and on top of that, you bring the hell fire stories to seal the deal... Is Allah seriously going to throw like 80% of the world into hellfire? And dosent that show that the human is a failed creation? 

 

So if i was born into an atheist family im quite sure my brain (the way it works) would never accept Islam and even though im born in a Muslim family, doubts still exist not things like is Allah true, but is it necessary to have this and that and weird rules, etc.

 

So do you think Allah is too harsh with his punishment to people who disbelieve? Because to be honest no matter how much mercy you have, it means nothing for someone who dosent buy into any of it so its a pointless attribute to a non-believer, but then you release an 'unimaginable' wrath onto them in the hereafter for it. What are your opinions?

 

Im put these points out not because 'Shaytan' is taking me over as some people say, but i genuinely question the mercy system in islam.

:salam: 

This article will help you understand the terms 'kafir' and 'mushrik':

http://quransmessage.com/articles/understanding kufr FM3.htm

 

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Why do people assume that when people find themselves in the afterlife that they will suddenly submit to God? Many atheists are atheists because they hate the idea of being a slave of a Creator, or having to worship Him, or doing what He says. Often when someone becomes an atheist it is because they want to do what they want (as the Qur'an says, taking their desires as their god), and they then post-justify this with pseudo-intellectual arguments. You don't know what goes on in the heart of anyone else other than your own, so it's best not to assume anything either way. Someone can appear good to you but isn't so good on the inside. They may have been offered guidance but rejected it. In the end they will be dealt with fairly and mercifully, and only God knows what was in their heart.

I'm pretty sure though that many unbelievers will refuse to worship even when confronted with their errors, out of pride and arrogance, but many people seem to think that this won't happen, and that every person who dies will immediately submit. If Shaytan can refuse to obey then I'm sure any of us can too.

Do you think someone like this is going to submit to God as soon as he dies?

Or him?

 

Apologies for the bad language and blasphemy but these atheists just can't help themselves.

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On 12/5/2015 at 11:14 PM, kamyar said:

I don't say Christianity is definitely the best religion which exists in the whole world. But I would say that among the ones I know and have access to, Christianity is the best one. I am not at war with the truth. Maybe somewhere else in the world there is a religion which is better than Christianity.

 

Can I get the source of this? It looks intriguing but I cant seem to find Descartes saying it. 

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On 11/20/2016 at 8:53 PM, Logic. said:

Can I get the source of this? It looks intriguing but I cant seem to find Descartes saying it. 

I checked the book. There wasn't a reference for this quote. That's probably due to the fact that the book is compiled by a series of speeches by him. However, I don't think Descartes saying such a thing would be unlikely, since he was a truth seeker person, as far as we know off course.

Anyway, the case of Descartes is just an example. It doesn't affect the idea Shahid Motahari is trying to explain in his book.

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