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In the Name of God بسم الله

What The Hell Did Muawiyyah Mean?

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Skanderbeg

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I think she meant:

In what way could it ever be meant to let the Quran be the judge. Maybe it was the way Arabs expressed things in that time I don't know but I can't understand how someone can claim to respect Quran by torning it apart and put its pages on the spears of his soldiers.


what do u expect from someone like muawiya?

 

 

All ..
 

Edited by Skanderbeg
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Basically imam Ali (as) and his army were killing muawiyas men, muawiya told his men to put the Quran on their spears to fool imam Alis men.

 

Unfortunately, the deceitful strategy of Muaviyah (lt) had an impact on Imam Ali (as)  soldiers, because they did fall into Muaviayah (lt) trap, Even though Imam Ali (as) had said don't be fooled by  Muaviyah (lt) deceitful plan.

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When he put Quran pages on the spears of his soldiers?

 

 

It was NOT Muawiyyah RA but Khuwarij who put the Quran pages on the spares.

 

Wikipedia:

In the Battle of Siffin, Ali acceded to Muawiyah's suggestion to stop the fighting and resort to negotiation. A large portion of Ali's troops (who later became the first Kharijites) refused to concede to that agreement, and they considered that Ali had breached a Qur'anic verse which states that The decision is only for Allah (Qur'an 6:57), which the Kharijites interpreted to mean that the outcome of a conflict can only be decided in battle (by God) and not in negotiations (by human beings).

 

Assassination attempts

Among the surviving Kharijites, three of them gathered in Mecca to plot a tripartite assassination attempt on Muʿāwiyah ibn ʾAbī Sufyān, 'Amr ibn al-'As and Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib. The assassination attempts were to occur simultaneously as the three leaders came to lead the morning prayer (Faj'r) in their respective cities of Damascus, Fustat and Kufa. The method was to come out of the prayer ranks and strike the targets with a sword dipped in poison.[9]

Muawiya escaped the assassination attempt with only minor injuries. While Amr was sick and the deputy leading the prayers in his stead was martyred. However, the strike on Ali by the assassin, Abdur-Rahmaan ibn-Muljim, proved to be a fatal one. Ali was gravely injured with a head wound and succumbed to his injuries a few days later.

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But isn't it blasphemous by itself to torn the Quran apart and put its pages on spears?

Well it depends on who does it. If some ordinary folk does it then it's blasphemous. But if a Sahabi does it or orders it then.... I guess it's a different story.

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It was NOT Muawiyyah RA but Khuwarij who put the Quran pages on the spares.

Wikipedia:

In the Battle of Siffin, Ali acceded to Muawiyah's suggestion to stop the fighting and resort to negotiation. A large portion of Ali's troops (who later became the first Kharijites) refused to concede to that agreement, and they considered that Ali had breached a Qur'anic verse which states that The decision is only for Allah (Qur'an 6:57), which the Kharijites interpreted to mean that the outcome of a conflict can only be decided in battle (by God) and not in negotiations (by human beings).

Assassination attempts

Among the surviving Kharijites, three of them gathered in Mecca to plot a tripartite assassination attempt on Muʿāwiyah ibn ʾAbī Sufyān, 'Amr ibn al-'As and Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib. The assassination attempts were to occur simultaneously as the three leaders came to lead the morning prayer (Faj'r) in their respective cities of Damascus, Fustat and Kufa. The method was to come out of the prayer ranks and strike the targets with a sword dipped in poison.[9]

Muawiya escaped the assassination attempt with only minor injuries. While Amr was sick and the deputy leading the prayers in his stead was martyred. However, the strike on Ali by the assassin, Abdur-Rahmaan ibn-Muljim, proved to be a fatal one. Ali was gravely injured with a head wound and succumbed to his injuries a few days later.

Where does it say from your "proof" you just posted from Wikipedia that it was the khwarij that placed the pages of the quran on the spears?

Edited by goldenhawk
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From the same link of wikipedia (battle of Siffin) it is quite obvious that Mawiya ordered to tie the quran to spears.

 

"Then, Nasr b Muzahim says people looked at Muawiya who said "He is right, by the Lord. If we meet tomorrow the Byzantines will attack our women and children and the people of Persia will attack the women and children of Iraq. Those with forebearance and intelligence see this. Tie the copies of the Quran to the ends of the spears." So the fighting stopped.[26]"

Edited by skamran110
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You're giving incorrect information Ramis Khan, it was muawiya [la] who placed the Qur'an on spears, may he and his lineage be cursed.

I was under the impression that Mu'awiyah (la) and the Kharwarij both did this but Mu'awiyah was the first to do it.

Well it depends on who does it. If some ordinary folk does it then it's blasphemous. But if a Sahabi does it or orders it then.... I guess it's a different story.

The Kharwarij were ordinary men who separated from the Ummah over leadership before the Sunni - Shia divide. They didn't last very long after the battle of Siffin, eventually were defeated and fled to the mountainous regions of Oman, became the ancestors of the Ibadis. As for Sahaba like Mu'awiyah doing this, given the respect they command by some Sunnis today, I don't think there is any excuse for Mu'awiyah (la) to have done what he did with the Qur'an, being one of the Sahaba, he should have known better.

Muwawiya means "The one who Howls" :mellow:

I am sure that he lives up to his name in Hellfire for all the suffering and pain he caused. Edited by Gaius I. Caesar
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Muwawiya means "The one who Howls" :mellow:

 

Muawiyah means wolf. It was very common in Arabs to name their children after animals, Uthman means Anaconda/ snake, Salba means fox, Hafsa means lioness, Harith and Osama mean Guardian Lion.

Purpose was to have names of animals which are dangerous to terrify their enemies as far as Arabs were war lords, used to fight for years.

They also had names meaning warrior like Waqas, Mugheerah (attacker) Faris etc.

Sometimes they have names with bad meaning in order to save their children from bad eye :-/ like Khadijah (premature birth/ incomplete)

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When he put Quran pages on the spears of his soldiers?

 

 

 

Cheap politics. Hunger for power/status.

The Shiat e Ali from Iraq apart from Imam Ali's repeated tries at urging them to continue the fight refused to fight. Only if they hadn't stopped and only if Siffin was won! 

 

And it was from the battle of Siffin the group of kharijites rose during Imam Ali's caliphate one of which (muljim) attacked and killed him.

Edited by FromShiaSunniBrotherhood
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When I read or notice something about Machiavelli's Il Principe I almost must think that the book was about Muawiyyah or inspired by him.

actually Amr b a'as was the one who suggrsted this trick he was more cuNning than moawyyiah

Don't give muawiyah so much credit he wasn't a political visionary he just had the good luck of having Ali as an opponent of strict uncompromising principles

Edited by Panzerwaffe
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It wasn't his cunning, it was the corrupted hearts that followed him. If Ali [as] had just a percentage of the support that Muawiya did, he wouldn't have been able to assassinate him in salah.

Muawiyah kept himself aloof from people plus his cronies aND secret police were modeled on Roman model perfect for state craft and subterfuge ... Ali had plenty of support but his followers like him were pietist minded independent thinking tribal who did not believe in under handed tactics and were not unscrupulous like Syrians

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Being pious does not make a person weaker politically than one who is ruthless. Ali a.s. Would have defeated muawiya at siffeen despite his ugly tactics if only his men would of had faith in the imam and kept their positions. Instead many of them broke off into the khawarij and were only in the army of imam Ali a.s. to protect themselves.

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Muawiyah kept himself aloof from people plus his cronies aND secret police were modeled on Roman model perfect for state craft and subterfuge ... Ali had plenty of support but his followers like him were pietist minded independent thinking tribal who did not believe in under handed tactics and were not unscrupulous like Syrians

Bottomline is 'shias' sold out to Muawiya. They forced Imam Ali to accept Muawiya's proposal even though Malik-e-Ashtar was close to getting to Muawiya. Then when Imam Ali as chose Malik-e-Ashtar as the person to discuss the terms they refused to accept him as a candidate and chose Abu Musa Ashari who was definitely not as sharp as Malik nor as cunning as Amr-e-As.

If only Imam Ali had more men like Malik....

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Sheer, impious intentions to distract Ali (as) and his men; he knew Ali (as) would be mortified seeing the Qur'an on spears

That's the thing brother. Imam Ali was not mortified because he knew it was only a ruse. Now, our 'shia' on the other hand...

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Bottomline is 'shias' sold out to Muawiya. They forced Imam Ali to accept Muawiya's proposal even though Malik-e-Ashtar was close to getting to Muawiya. Then when Imam Ali as chose Malik-e-Ashtar as the person to discuss the terms they refused to accept him as a candidate and chose Abu Musa Ashari who was definitely not as sharp as Malik nor as cunning as Amr-e-As.

If only Imam Ali had more men like Malik....

Eh not really abu Musa al ashari was the choice of Al asthar initially don't forget

Arbitration was a big mistake yes but it was mostly as hath b qays aND his yemeni who wanted Abu Musa.They were smarter men in Alis camp like ibn abbas ibn budayl and qays etc

ALI also relied on the advice of his family too much who were inept like abdullah b jafar advising him to remove qays b saad which to led disaster in egypt

That's the thing brother. Imam Ali was not mortified because he knew it was only a ruse. Now, our 'shia' on the other hand...

Those shia were 1000 timed better than you and me sipping on our Frappuccino in centrally heated rooms criticizing actions which were confusing aND muddled with controversy

Loss of Egypt led to collapse of his empire as it meant the loss of grain and many communications between hijaz yemen and iraq

Qays b saad was the fortress against muawiyah which Ali relying on bad advice himself dismantled aND he laments that in nahjulbalagh

Being pious does not make a person weaker politically than one who is ruthless. Ali a.s. Would have defeated muawiya at siffeen despite his ugly tactics if only his men would of had faith in the imam and kept their positions. Instead many of them broke off into the khawarij and were only in the army of imam Ali a.s. to protect themselves.

only 4000 eventually became khawarij out of Iraqi army of atleast 40000 Edited by Panzerwaffe
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Eh not really abu Musa al ashari was the choice of Al asthar initially don't forget

Arbitration was a big mistake yes but it was mostly as hath b qays aND his yemeni who wanted Abu Musa.They were smarter men in Alis camp like ibn abbas ibn budayl and qays etc

ALI also relied on the advice of his family too much who were inept like abdullah b jafar advising him to remove qays b saad which to led disaster in egypt

Those shia were 1000 timed better than you and me sipping on our Frappuccino in centrally heated rooms criticizing actions which were confusing aND muddled with controversy Loss of Egypt led to collapse of his empire as it meant the loss of grain and many communications between hijaz yemen and iraq

Qays b saad was the fortress against muawiyah which Ali relying on bad advice himself dismantled aND he laments that in nahjulbalagh

only 4000 eventually became khawarij out of Iraqi army of atleast 40000

Sorry brother but it seems like we've read different versions of Siffin. First, Imam Ali did not want arbitration. When there was no other alternative, then he chose either Abdullah ibn Abbas or Malik from his side but the 'sold-out' Shias insisted on Abu Musa Ashari who was loyal but a simpleton. Siffin was not lost due to Egypt but due to the ruse of Muawiya.

http://www.al-islam.org/restatement-history-islam-and-muslims-sayyid-ali-ashgar-razwy/battle-siffin

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