Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Contradiction In The Return Of The Mehdi.

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

Salam alkeum,

 

I have posted 2 or 3 more topics before about Imam Mehdi (as). I understood that there are certain proofs for the existence and the neccesity of the return of the 12th Imam. Yet somehow it just wasn't convincing enough for me, I never understood why and  I just couldn't find the reason why I wasn't convinced.

 

However I recently cotemplated about it once agian and realized the reason why im not deeply convinced of the existence of the Mahdi and it doenst have to do with anything surrounding hadith or the Quran.

 

The reason why im not that convinced of the Mehdi (as) is because it just doesnt make sense in the whole Islamic world view . Let me eloborate.

 

This world is only temporary. You only live here to be tested and profit of the oppurtunities to get closer to God .After that you are done and you get out. The pleasures and the grieve of this world is only fleeting and has no real value other than bieng instruments to get closer to God.  In conclusion: This world is only secondary and instrumental to your existence and generally speaking you shouldn't attach yourself to it .

 

SO why would I then care if a just rules of the future takes over this world and brings peace if im suposed not be attached to this world anyways? Why is justice on this earth relevant for my existence? I leave this earth anyways and if I did good in this life I get to rest in the abode of God. Why would I care about a figure who comes to this fleeting world that is only secondary and instrumental to me?

 

 

To be clear:

I get it there is lots of injustice in this world and we should do our best to fight it, as method to get closer to God and not for creating a paradise on earth or something. Im not saying this world is not important im just saying its secondary , its just an instrument to get you closer to God.

 

My argument is why care about the secondary(this world) if you can focus on the primary(The afterlife)?

Espechially why care about Imam Mehdi (as) if his only job is a job that concerns the secondary (this world)

Edited by El-shia
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The shi'i school of thought has turned the Mehdi into a type of superhero who will eventually reappear to purge all that is evil and counterproductive. 

However, not a single believer in the Mehdi has any idea how the he will bring about such a utopian state of affairs in the absence of a magic wand. Nor do any of them know what specifically the Mehdi is going to change in terms of policy-making. 

 

But to further your specific argument, what exactly would be the point of judgement day if the Mehdi restored order and morality throughout the world?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam

 

My argument is why care about the secondary(this world) if you can focus on the primary(The afterlife)?

 

you cant not care about this world to care about the afterlife, you pray etc.. now and you get the reward in the afterlife, this is focusing in both

 

 

Espechially why care about Imam Mehdi (as) if his only job is a job that concerns the secondary (this world)

even though this is secondary world, it is the world of Allah and he wants to show us justice, just as life had to be, and who says no for not helping imam mahdi in this world? you get your prize in the akhira, you must not just sit and say imam mahdi will come, you will not feel that he is here unless you work for him, work on yourself and you will feel him

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

But thats the point. If im suposed not to attach myself to this world , why should i bother for its fortunes its all fleeting. Im not purposing here to become a monk or something. But the world is only temporarily important and then it doesnt matter anymore. So why should i even care about an utopia in something which is temporarily anyways? You die anyways justice in the herafter thats what matters.

Justice in this world is nothing but a way to a means and thus secondary .

I dont see why i should aim for result in this world. Just do the right thing and die. Why should i care if world peace comes or not ? Im dead anyways and hopefully truely at peace in Gods abode.

I doesnt make sense to me to say dont attach to this world and then make waiting /working towards a mahdi utopia in that same world you should not attach to, an important part of the shia belief system.

Edited by El-shia
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Who said you need to work towards a 'Mahdi utopia'? The Mahdi is part of the system God has chosen to bring the world to an end. Sure, He could have done things in a different way, but this is the way He has chosen to do it. Something doesn't have to be necessary for God to do it. Perhaps He simply doesn't want the world to end without experiencing divine rule.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Can you also adres the contradiction , cause thats the main question of this topic.

Just because God says so still doesnt explain this serious contradiction. It makes being convinced of the mahdi and everything around it very hard to do if it isnt explained .

I assume god works according to some kind of rationale. We are not asharites who explain everything as the will of god without any arguments or rationale.

Edited by El-shia
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

There is no contradiction. All of this seems to be based on some flawed idea that you should be actively working towards building some future utopia, which is not the case. As long as you are aware of who the Imam of your time is, then just get on with your life, and focus on your akhira.

By the way, with regards to the 'rationale' of God, on what basis do you presume to even be in a position to understand the rationale of an infinitely intelligent Being? Can an insect understand your rationale?

Edited by Haydar Husayn
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Oh no. All our scholars have been sleeping? Why they don't learn from El-shia.

 

Edit: And from Chair Pundit. So noble of these noble humane individuals with such immense love for all humanity that they have taken the time to descend upon our website in a quest to guide us to the truths.~

Edited by Darth Vader
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam alekum ,
Look friend  Darthvader, im not here, to act high and mighty. I post it here so that I can deepen my understanding about our Imam and improve my own faith. If you have any books or resources that adresses my problem please provide them . Thank you

Please  dont paint me of as arrogant, it was not my intention at all .

 

:( Sarcasm is not nice.

 

 

@Hayder Hussain:

Salam alekum,

I  put a slash next to that ''working'' part in my other post it said ''Working/waiting'' . waiting also is just fine by me, its besides the point. Doesnt the hadith say that he who dies without knowing his Imam died Jahil(ignorant)?  How am I suposed to believe in something if it doesnt make sense to me . Why does there have to be a divine rule/utopia in this temporary world, if it just temporary and secondary?

 

God has a rationale in his decisions, if God forbid puts the prophet in hell just becauase he wills it , will you call it justice? no it doesnt make any rational sense to put your own prophet in hell, so God works according a rationale in his decisions. There are islamic groups who argue that god doesnt work according to a rational system and everything God does is justified (Including putting  the prophet in Hell).

Edited by El-shia
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

In conclusion: This world is only secondary and instrumental to your existence and generally speaking you shouldn't attach yourself to it .

 

SO why would I then care if a just rules of the future takes over this world and brings peace if im suposed not be attached to this world anyways? Why is justice on this earth relevant for my existence? I leave this earth anyways and if I did good in this life I get to rest in the abode of God. Why would I care about a figure who comes to this fleeting world that is only secondary and instrumental to me?

 

...

 

My argument is why care about the secondary(this world) if you can focus on the primary(The afterlife)?

Espechially why care about Imam Mehdi (as) if his only job is a job that concerns the secondary (this world)

 

S/A Brother El-Shia,

 

First of all, my personal opinion is that there is nothing wrong with you questioning. This is a religion of reason and understanding, not cramming and blind belief. Its also very clear that you are only trying to get help from your fellow shia to understand not to create confusion, and that, in my opinion, is perfectly fine.

 

I have 2 cents that might be able to help a bit. First and foremost, my few experiences on this earth have taught me one very important thing, and that is that when you have a really confusing and deep question in religion, there is, in fact, only one way to get an answer from the The Divine (s.w.t). And that is: first accept that there is an answer and it does make sense, and approach the question as a humble beggar of knowledge (because in truth we all really know nothing even though we seem to believe that we know it all most of the time) and not as someone contesting a theory. Because one of the truths in the Qur'an is that AIIah never provides an answer until one takes this approach. Do you know why? Because if we take the approach of someone contesting a theory, there is no amount of proof or even miracles that will convince one. Evidence of this is in the Qur'an where many different populations and peoples were shown big miracles but because they hadn't humbled themselves and accepted the truth in their hearts and changed what was in their hearts, the miracles were useless. This is just my own humble opinion which I try to practice in my own life.

 

Anyway, on to your question: I think that there is a fundamental flaw in your argument where you say:

 

 

My argument is why care about the secondary(this world) if you can focus on the primary(The afterlife)

 

and

 

 

This world is only secondary and instrumental to your existence and generally speaking you shouldn't attach yourself to it

 

Yes, you are right in that one should not attach him/herself to the world. However, you are mistaken about the meaning of the word "attach" in this way of living in our religion. When we are told not to attach ourselves to this world, it means that we must not attach ourselves to the pleasures and material aspect of this world. It absolutely does not mean we should not attach ourselves to the spiritual aspect of this world. In fact, attaching oneself to the spiritual aspect of this life is extremely encouraged and is the purpose of this life.

 

Secondly, I believe that it is incorrect to say that this world is secondary and the afterlife is primary. Actually it is not. Yes, we are created to shortly journey to the afterlife. But the sole reason for our entire creation is this world here. We were absolutely created in order to strive in this world. The next world is a reaction to this world based on the concept of justice and mercy in which because of the (primary) striving and struggling in this world, it becomes incumbent on The Just One to recompense us accordingly.

 

Imam Ali (a.s) once said: "Sitting in the masjid, to me, is better than sitting in Jannah, because when I am sitting in paradise I am well-pleased, but when I sit in the masjid AIIah is well-pleased". This hadith may show you that you need to re-consider your position: if lmam Ali prefers this world to the next world (provided of course that he is making use of it in the right way and he is attaching himself to the spiritual and not the material), then this world is the primary and the next world is the secondary.

 

In fact, Imam Ali (a.s) regularly praised this world with great praise, provided that one makes correct use of it and takes good lessons from it, e.g.

 

Source: Nahjul-Balagha

 

Certainly, this world is a house of truth for those who look into it carefully, an abode of peace and rest for those who understand its ways and moods and it is the best working ground for those who want to procure rewards for life in the Hereafter. It is a place of acquiring knowledge and wisdom for those who want to acquire them, a place of worship for the friends of Allah and for Angels. It is the place where prophets received revelations of Allah. It is the place for virtuous people and saints to do good deeds and to be assigned with rewards for the same. Only in this world they could trade with Allah's Favors and Blessings and only while living here they could barter their good deeds with His Blessings and Rewards. Where else could all this be done?

 

The thought that the next world is primary and this world is the means to that is, according to lmam Ali (and lmam Sadiq) the worship of traders:

 

 

Verily, some people worshipped Allah being desirous (Of His reward) – so this is the worship of traders; and some people worshipped Allah fearing (His punishment) – so it is the worship of slaves, and a group worshipped Allah in gratitude (to Him) so this is the worship of the free.

 

The truth is that we were created to come into this world and show AIIah all that we can truly be (hopefully good). For the men of AIIah (and this does not include me at all), this is the primary reason. As a consequence of that, AIIah's justice makes it incumbent upon Himself to reward us in the next world (secondary reason). I wonder if you agree with me?

 

Finally, about why we should then even want to hope for the return of His Eminence (a.j), couple of reasons:

1. The believer yearns to see, speak with and accompany that wonderful personality. Is it not a tragedy for one to be apart from his beloved for his whole life and then leave it? If something (God forbid) happened and someone had to live apart from one's wife for his whole life, even that would be a tragedy. What about the living apart from the person for whose sake the earth remains intact? That most wonderful personality who will never deceive you, whom you know for a fact that anything he does is correct, and anything he says is true, who will never treat you badly, will always welcome you... I can go on and on... May AIIah bless him more and more.

 

2. The believer feels a restlessness when he sees all the oppression and injustice all around him; when everything that AIIah and human nature condemns becomes common-place and normal. The believer yearns in his heart for Divine help to rid his surroundings this ugliness. On a smaller scale, if you had a gang operating in your neighbourhood, casting fear into the hearts of the inhabitants, selling drugs to the youth, mugging everyone, threatening the honour of young ladies (you know what I mean), would not a normal human being wish that the gang would somehow be dealt with and disappear? If yes, then does not the same feeling arise when injustice and tyranny takes place on a global scale?

 

Just my 2-3 cents (or so :D ). I just tried to give you an alternative perspective. Let me know your opinions.

 

W/S

Madzi.

Edited by madzi
Link to post
Share on other sites

God sent all Prophets so humanity conducts themselves and rises with equity and justice. The fact is the mission of the Prophets has over all failed as far this purpose goes, but they didn't fail their duty in delivering the message. However God promised at the end,  through his wisdom, victory would take place and his mercy spread.

 

So God has been trying through out time to establish justice in society. However he has promised it will take place, and that is the wisdom of having a chosen one left till the time is right.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...