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Caliguy

Long Distance Intimacy?

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^I like the conviction xD!

As everything in life, there are women and women, men and men. Libido is linked to very different factors and each person, leaving aside gender, is different here.

What you could argue Batman is that libido or sexual desire is GENERALLY expressed in different ways when it comes to gender. But the need of such expressions, even if they are different, is not necessarily lower or higher due to the gender, but to other characteristics that are individual to the person and not the gender.

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 yes it is

 

LOL

 

Brother, don't come across as though you have figured it all by your high school years. You are in all likelihood still a virgin.

Edited by Marbles

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the way people talk about women at times it seems we're nothing short of robots...

 

Robots came to mind when I was reading this thread earlier too :huh:  (regarding advice, not women)
 
Because sometimes, the advice people give is almost the kind of thing one would expect robots / artificial intelligence to give, because people basically use "reductionist thinking".
 
 
That other thread about the 14-year-old was one example:
 
It seems like people just get into a tunnel-vision mindset, without considering context... "masturbation is haram, mutah is halal, therefore go do mutah".  The case of the 14-year-old was a perfect example of how context matters (and would make mutah haram in that particular case, imho).
 
Context always should be considered (although it may not always matter), but this case is another example where it's particularly important.
 
 
If the threadstarter does mutah (or even attempts to), it could screw-up his life. 
 
 
Various issues:
 
(1) I think most Muslims girls (and their parents... and non-Muslims too), if they found out that a fiance/husband went and slept with some other girl due to visa issues or some other delay, they would cancel the wedding / get a divorce.
 
(2) Ay. Sistani (and I think all others) say that a married man can't do mutah with a non-Muslim, even if the wife gives permission. So: the guy would need to somehow find a Muslim woman willing to sleep with a guy who's already set to marry.  How exactly would he go about that?  
 
- His fiancee/wife and her parents will probably get angry about that idea and cancel the wedding / get a divorce.
 
- If he does it without telling her: He tries asking various girls, most/all of them decline, and word will inevitably get back to his fiancee/wife... then he'll probably end up not married to her + have trouble finding someone else to marry.
 
- Even if the fiancee/wife agrees to it, other people in the community will find it bizarre that the guy is trying to find someone to sleep with while engaged/married.
 
- And it's morally wrong (I would say haram) if he doesn't tell any "prospective mutah wives" that he's already married. So, that means he would have to find a Muslim girl who is willing to basically be a short-term wife for him, with no real chance of anything long-term.  That's not going to be easy to find.  And even the search process will create issues, as mentioned above.
 
 
As such, for an engaged/married guy to try to do mutah in this situation   is almost as impractical as a 14-year-old trying to do mutah.  
 
I suppose some guys are already chummy enough with other girls that they may be able to find a mutah partner, but I really don't think that type of pre-existing chumminess is appropriate.
 

 

This is just food for thought. A married man wanting more intimacy is told to do mutah but a woman in the same position is told to get a divorce or have self-control. It's just interesting.

 

I think part of the issue is also cultural/theoretical... I think the people who argued for mutah earlier in the thread (1) probably don't live in a western country (and don't understand the local context + how few Muslims are around... although my guess is that in a country like India, it would probably be even harder to find a temporary wife while engaged/married) or (2) still a teenager.

 

In both cases, the ideas are basically theoretical.

 

Regarding what you wrote though, obviously Muslim women can only be married to 1 man at a time, and have the aspect of pregnancy, so that's the limiting factor... that doesn't make mutah the right option for the threadstarter, but just saying in general, I think the pregnancy issue is the main reason for the different gender rules. 

Edited by Bright

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I just find the whole mutah thing while being married a bit bizarre. to me, it just equals cheating like it or not. just a bit of self-control is what the OP needs and surely he can work things out by diverting his mind towards something more positive.

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Yeah, I think there is a sleazy aspect to it... that "cheating website" stuff in the news lately comes to mind - it's obviously different too, but there is a similar aspect especially with guys who do it without telling the wife (and who don't even have any geographic distance problem).

 

 

Also, Caliguy, regarding solutions, a couple of ideas I had are:

 

- If you're able to work on the 2 days off, maybe that would help prevent the issue, by keeping you busy.

 

- And maybe you could use those work days to either: (1) getting extra pay to help cover a trip to visit your wife (or for her to visit you) and/or (2) by working on weekends, use that worktime to cover days off in order to visit her.

 

 

But in general, it sounds like if you keep busy outside your home on your days off, that would partly help.

Edited by Bright

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I don't know why so many people on SC just jump at the opportunity to advise Mutah. Many Islamic scholars actually strongly advise against Mutah if the man is already in a permanent marriage. Is it worth it to possibly risk your future with your permanent wife for a temporary desire?

I was browsing through past threads and I found a member post this and I thought it was very nicely said.

"Muta'ah is ordained to provide relief in certain specific situations. It has become to be treated as a loophole to bypass the divine ordain of taqva, which essentially means foregoing one's own desire's to fuflfil that which Allah asks from one."

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I'm not referring to people in real life who have done mutah and are discreet about it (for the reasons you mentioned). Given the negative public opinion on mutah, that is understandable. 

 

There are quite a few people on here who have openly admitted that they've never done mutah and that they aren't married (and as such, have no experience to speak of) yet they suggest mutah for every single problem that is mentioned. A few weeks back there was a 13/14 year old who was advised to do mutah without his parents knowledge. Now, in all fairness, the poster who suggested that meant well and didn't know that the OP was only 13/14. However, the fact that some people on here are so cavalier about suggesting mutah and often do so quickly without knowing the full details of a poster's situation suggests that people take mutah quite lightly and don't view it as a marriage but rather as quick fix. Such advise is irresponsible as people run the risk of advising someone  to do something which may, in reality, be ill advised in that person's situation and result in more problems for the person.

 

Have you come here with the permission of your parents?!!!

This is not the way to answer logic reasons.

 

I think: Mutah is one of the Islamic Ahkam and we blame Omar to make it Haram, after passing away of the Holy prophet (saw). But nowadays we can find the followers of him also in Shia.

Because some of Shia try to say: nope, Mutah is sth belonget to 14 hundred years ago, and it is not applicable nowadays.

 

I do not tell everyone to go and do Mutah, but it is also one of the solutions for males, posed by Almighty Allah.

 

AND: Allah has not seen it suitable for women, so He did not allow it for them according to our Sharia.

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(2) Ay. Sistani (and I think all others) say that a married man can't do mutah with a non-Muslim, even if the wife gives permission. So: the guy would need to somehow find a Muslim woman willing to sleep with a guy who's already set to marry.  How exactly would he go about that?  
 
 

 

That is not entirely accurate. Here is the fatwa from sistani.org

 

http://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01245/

 

Question: A Muslim couple got separated for a long time. Is it permissible for him to marry, temporarily or permanently, a woman from Ahlul Kitab without the knowledge of his Muslim wife? Is it permissible for him to marry, with the permission of his Muslim wife?

Answer: For a Muslim man to marry a woman from Ahlul Kitab permanently is against the compulsory precaution in any circumstance. And his temporary marriage to a Jewish or a Christian woman is allowed, only if he is not already married to a Muslim wife. If he has a Muslim wife, temporary marriage with an Ahlul Kitab woman is not permissible without her consent; nay, even with her consent, it is not permissible, based on compulsory precaution.
 
Sayyed Sistani(ha) is saying it is not permissible with her consent based on ihtiyat wujubiyyat(obligatory precaution) Meaning if he want to do ihtiyyat (which there is no exact translation for in English) then it is not permissible. That is different than saying it is haram. The closest I can come up with, as a translation for ihtiyyat wujubiyyat is that the advice of Sayyid Sistani(ha) is to not do it, even with her consent, and since he is a very wise and pious man, we should take his advice, but it is not haram. 
 
But without her consent, it is haram. Sayyid Fadlallah(ra) also says it is haram without her consent. 
I have not looked at the fatwa of other marjaa' regarding this. 
Edited by Abu Hadi

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Regarding what you wrote though, obviously Muslim women can only be married to 1 man at a time, and have the aspect of pregnancy, so that's the limiting factor... that doesn't make mutah the right option for the threadstarter, but just saying in general, I think the pregnancy issue is the main reason for the different gender rules. 

 

There are paternity tests now that they didn't have before...

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This is just food for thought. A married man wanting more intimacy is told to do mutah but a woman in the same position is told to get a divorce or have self-control. It's just interesting.

It is interesting indeed. And I haven't even recommended at any point for the OP to go ahead and engage in mut'ah. I'm just speaking objectively, that it's allowed for the sole purpose pleasure. Yes there are requirements and what not, but that doesn't change the fact it is permissible. My basic point has been that saying "how come girls can't do it too" is inappropriate because men and women are not the same, as stated in various ayahs and hadiths, and so you're essentially questioning Allah by making the statements you're making. Obviously, that would lead to problems.

 

I'd recommend opening up a thread to go over all the differences between men and women, and how come men can do certain things that women can't, and vice versa, since you're so interested in this type of thing.

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Have you come here with the permission of your parents?!!!

This is not the way to answer logic reasons.

 

I think: Mutah is one of the Islamic Ahkam and we blame Omar to make it Haram, after passing away of the Holy prophet (saw). But nowadays we can find the followers of him also in Shia.

Because some of Shia try to say: nope, Mutah is sth belonget to 14 hundred years ago, and it is not applicable nowadays.

 

I do not tell everyone to go and do Mutah, but it is also one of the solutions for males, posed by Almighty Allah.

 

AND: Allah has not seen it suitable for women, so He did not allow it for them according to our Sharia.

 

I simply stated that many young, inexperienced male members suggest mutah as the solution to every problem posters discuss on on here,  which is true. I did not specifically name you (or other member) but if the shoe fits...

 

As for the rest of your comment, you're responding to someone else as I never commented on whether mutah is allowed, acceptable, or whether women should engage in it. Frankly, I really couldn't care less about the specifics of mutah and whether or not men or women engage in it.

 

Perhaps you could learn to use the reply button properly and reply to the correct poster before accusing others of being illogical.

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Alina, as a friendly suggestion, best thing to do is to avoid this thread in order not to bear such comments. It sometimes gives me the feel (and I'm being absolutely subjective here, forgive me but I have to say it) that the concept of mutah is exploited to throw sexist male chauvinist comments lacking any ground, common sense or scientific knowledge but prejudices and ideas coming from ignorance. Religion as a whole is given such uses by many in other fields apart drom mutah, sadly.

Women do also have desires, not less than guys (I do know for good). They just have generally proved to have some decency by being more discrete and patient. Something that many could benefit from learning. It seriously saddens me, the fact something that was deemed halal has set the ground for many men to ruin their character and social etiquette. Mutah is not just a religious issue but a social one, we should either address the topic properly and with tact or otherwise don't address it.

While reading such comments, I can only admire women's patience and commitment to what is good and what they deem as good and integral to them.

Edited by Bakir

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Alina, as a friendly suggestion, best thing to do is to avoid this thread in order not to bear such comments. It sometimes gives me the feel (and I'm being absolutely subjective here, forgive me but I have to say it) that the concept of mutah is exploited to throw sexist male chauvinist comments lacking any ground, common sense or scientific knowledge but prejudices and ideas coming from ignorance. Religion as a whole is given such uses by many in other fields apart drom mutah, sadly.

Women do also have desires, not less than guys (I do know for good). They just have generally proved to have some decency by being more discrete and patient. Something that many could benefit from learning. It seriously saddens me, the fact something that was deemed halal has set the ground for many men to ruin their character and social etiquette. Mutah is not just a religious issue but a social one, we should either address the topic properly and with tact or otherwise don't address it.

While reading such comments, I can only admire women's patience and commitment to what is good and what they deem as good and integral to them.

 

beautifully said!!!

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Robots came to mind when I was reading this thread earlier too :huh:  (regarding advice, not women)
 
Because sometimes, the advice people give is almost the kind of thing one would expect robots / artificial intelligence to give, because people basically use "reductionist thinking".
 
 
That other thread about the 14-year-old was one example:
 
It seems like people just get into a tunnel-vision mindset, without considering context... "masturbation is haram, mutah is halal, therefore go do mutah".  The case of the 14-year-old was a perfect example of how context matters (and would make mutah haram in that particular case, imho).
 
Context always should be considered (although it may not always matter), but this case is another example where it's particularly important.
 
 
If the threadstarter does mutah (or even attempts to), it could screw-up his life. 
 
 
Various issues:
 
(1) I think most Muslims girls (and their parents... and non-Muslims too), if they found out that a fiance/husband went and slept with some other girl due to visa issues or some other delay, they would cancel the wedding / get a divorce.
 
(2) Ay. Sistani (and I think all others) say that a married man can't do mutah with a non-Muslim, even if the wife gives permission. So: the guy would need to somehow find a Muslim woman willing to sleep with a guy who's already set to marry.  How exactly would he go about that?  
 
- His fiancee/wife and her parents will probably get angry about that idea and cancel the wedding / get a divorce.
 
- If he does it without telling her: He tries asking various girls, most/all of them decline, and word will inevitably get back to his fiancee/wife... then he'll probably end up not married to her + have trouble finding someone else to marry.
 
- Even if the fiancee/wife agrees to it, other people in the community will find it bizarre that the guy is trying to find someone to sleep with while engaged/married.
 
- And it's morally wrong (I would say haram) if he doesn't tell any "prospective mutah wives" that he's already married. So, that means he would have to find a Muslim girl who is willing to basically be a short-term wife for him, with no real chance of anything long-term.  That's not going to be easy to find.  And even the search process will create issues, as mentioned above.
 
 
As such, for an engaged/married guy to try to do mutah in this situation   is almost as impractical as a 14-year-old trying to do mutah.  
 
I suppose some guys are already chummy enough with other girls that they may be able to find a mutah partner, but I really don't think that type of pre-existing chumminess is appropriate.
 

 

 

I think part of the issue is also cultural/theoretical... I think the people who argued for mutah earlier in the thread (1) probably don't live in a western country (and don't understand the local context + how few Muslims are around... although my guess is that in a country like India, it would probably be even harder to find a temporary wife while engaged/married) or (2) still a teenager.

 

In both cases, the ideas are basically theoretical.

 

Regarding what you wrote though, obviously Muslim women can only be married to 1 man at a time, and have the aspect of pregnancy, so that's the limiting factor... that doesn't make mutah the right option for the threadstarter, but just saying in general, I think the pregnancy issue is the main reason for the different gender rules. 

 

The thing is bright, we cannot calculate the pros and cons of any decision. The only one who can do it with satisfaction is the decision maker.

What we can do is to put the dots on the letters. Clarifying the misconceptions and explaining the options.

Some have limited imagination and they might recommend Mut'ah. Some may recommend to change the setting of the conversation with wife. Others may give general advice of learning self restraint.

All valid, all possible and all may have their own pros and cons based on the op conditions. We don't know these conditions and thus we cannot bring one option to be better than the other.

And to be honest , i couldn't care about the people's final decision. All I care about is not to give invalid advice, like saying Masturbation is halal or allowed or ok. Or saying that going out hunting for women or flirting with women is ok. Or that celibacy is the best option or other invalid advices according to Islamic laws.

 

Islamic laws are having the criteria of many rulings regarding similar situations that sometimes we mistaken them as one. But these variations in rulings give us a solution to ease our hardships which sometimes cannot be eased by the most commonly practiced legal solution.

 

 

But yeah, SC is known to exploit Mut'ah to an extent lol.

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