Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Ethereal2015

Why Do I Have To Be Something?!

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Hi

So background history is that I am an open minded peaceful soul... I don't care for hate or holding on to negativity.... I'm Born into Sunni sect with interest in Sufism.

His pretty down to earn and does not practise his religion very much so my thinking and questions are my own completely. I'm very neutral when it comes to all the sect politics and focus on my basics but i am a curious soul so I've researched questions I have about Shia sect and some stuff is quite valid, interesting and makes me question was I was taught.

My question is- why do I have to be something? Why do I need to attach myself to a sect who ultimately ( either Shia or Sunni) have hate and anger towards each other?

Why must I pick a side? Can't I just be neutral spiritual muslim? Agree with things for example something I found out tonight and sympathise and believe that Fatima ( Ra) was killed brutally by Umar (ra) and that both sides have valid points.

I'm attracted to Shia values yet don't feel the need to label myself as anything different? Does it matter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother who ever said we hate our sunni brothers and sisters? We love them and stand up for them however we just cannot agree with their rules and ways. Islam is very similar but we disagree on small things which is why there are 2 sects. Keep in mind the Shia community as a whole is very small to that of the Sunni and when you are at a large scale it is easy to make the opposing side seem like the bad guy.

 

In reality you dont need to label yourself, but you should know if you have a problem which school you turn to.

Never say im Shia or Sunni say im a Muslim who turns to Ahlul Bayt and the Shia Teachings for help for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

So background history is that I am an open minded peaceful soul... I don't care for hate or holding on to negativity.... I'm Born into Sunni sect with interest in Sufism.

His pretty down to earn and does not practise his religion very much so my thinking and questions are my own completely. I'm very neutral when it comes to all the sect politics and focus on my basics but i am a curious soul so I've researched questions I have about Shia sect and some stuff is quite valid, interesting and makes me question was I was taught.

My question is- why do I have to be something? Why do I need to attach myself to a sect who ultimately ( either Shia or Sunni) have hate and anger towards each other?

Why must I pick a side? Can't I just be neutral spiritual muslim? Agree with things for example something I found out tonight and sympathise and believe that Fatima ( Ra) was killed brutally by Umar (ra) and that both sides have valid points.

I'm attracted to Shia values yet don't feel the need to label myself as anything different? Does it matter?

 

Shia can be referenced in the Holy Quran. Unlike Sunnism, which is an creation and  has no correlation with any religious text 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shia can be referenced in the Holy Quran. Unlike Sunnism, which is an creation and  has no correlation with any religious text

By qiyas i think qadiyanis can be fixed in Quran too ! All huffaz who memorized Quran was sunni Sahaba and was compiled by 3rd caliph of sunnis, Uthman r.a ! Allah's amanah was there in chests and memory, kept by Prophet s.a.w ! SubhanAllah what a companionship and what a sadaqa al jariyah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By qiyas i think qadiyanis can be fixed in Quran too ! All huffaz who memorized Quran was sunni Sahaba and was compiled by 3rd caliph of sunnis, Uthman r.a ! Allah's amanah was there in chests and memory, kept by Prophet s.a.w ! SubhanAllah what a companionship and what a sadaqa al jariyah.

 

 The immediate companions of the Prophet (pbuh&hf) were Sunnis? Sunnis came into existence 150 years after the  demise of  the Prophet (pbuh&hf) It appears  you haven't a  clue about  your own cult, and how it came into existence!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really strange guys.... I'm sensing loads of negative edge in your words. Tone it down please... I didn't come here for abuse or to sense exclamation marks.

I'm just unpacking why we need to choose a sect or I need to if I'm at peace with just being a spiritual muslim woman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't have to be anything, you don't even have to be Muslim. But if you do decide to be a Muslim then your own views will lead you to this or that path. What is your personal opinion on Ahlul Bayt (a)? What about Ghadeer? What about Abu Bakr being the first caliph? etc. etc. If you come up with questions like these and answer them then your answers will tell you if you are Shia or Sunni or maybe neither and something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The immediate companions of the Prophet (pbuh&hf) were Sunnis? Sunnis came into existence 150 years after the  demise of  the Prophet (pbuh&hf) It appears  you haven't a  clue about  your own cult, and how it came into existence!

sunnah wal jamah was formed itself by Prophet s.a.w, the group of Sahaba, Ahl al'bait & Ansaar were itself jamah of Prophet s.a.w ! Later in short was known as sunnis, then after a long time shias camed in wajood empty handed without anything ! SubhanAllah what a companionship and what a sadaqa al jariyah. What a jamah and what a great Imaam sall'allahu alaihi wa'sallam.

No regrets

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with things for example something I found out tonight and sympathise and believe that Fatima ( Ra) was killed brutally by Umar (ra) and that both sides have valid points.

 

 

Did a thought not come to you to ponder over what the reasons were behind why he murdered her(as) in the first place?
 
 
حَدَّثَنِي يَحْيَى بْنُ مَعِينٍ، وَصَدَقَةُ، قَالاَ أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، عَنْ شُعْبَةَ، عَنْ وَاقِدِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ ارْقُبُوا مُحَمَّدًا صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ‏.‏
 
 Narrated Ibn `Umar:Abu Bakr used to say, "Please Muhammad (i.e. the Prophet) by doing good to his family(Ahlulbayt)." [bukhari]
 
^The Irony in that Hadith is that it comes from the guy making this testimony. How did Abu Bakr and 'Umar treat Fatima(as) and 'Ali(as) after the death of the prophet(saw)?
 
 
حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْوَلِيدِ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ، عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ دِينَارٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي مُلَيْكَةَ، عَنِ الْمِسْوَرِ بْنِ مَخْرَمَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ فَاطِمَةُ بَضْعَةٌ مِنِّي، فَمَنْ أَغْضَبَهَا أَغْضَبَنِي ‏"‏‏.‏
 
Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:Allah's Messenger said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry." [bukhari]
 
 
 
 
Merely just angering Fatima angers the prophet and angering the prophet angers Allah, so what about murdering her? May Allah(swt) curse the enemies of the prophet(saw) and his chosen Ahlulbayt(as).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salam dear brother, I understand and can feel your situation and sincerity. But you have to look at this outside the box. Many things are fundamentally shared by both Shias and Sunnis. because it is agreed upon. The problem with not having the basis of your fundamental beliefs (laws, theology, jurisprudence..) within one school of thought within Islam, is your beliefs will be all centered around contradictions and problems, to which it wouldnt be a life style but more like a life crisis as you have already tried seeking out a discussion. For example, the prophet could clearly not have prayed more than one way, and only one way is the truth. Or that God cannot be pleased with a killer and a martyr. Deep down, you understand the issues, thus you decided to make a thread about this online. It just simply doesnt work. Religion is based on truth and falsehood. The two cannot overlap. It is a sincere struggle that one has to go through, even when one is within a school of thought from any religion. It is how struggling works. We need to seek to find answers, gain knowledge, solve our contradictions, to become closer to the truth. I pray that inshAllah, you find your own answers and your feelings of distress are relieved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

 

Allah out of his wisdom has always put an a Leader and Guide on earth that is linked to his rope and linked to his obedience. As Quran calls towards Ahlulbayt in it's true interpretation that is proven by it's own verses, reason, and the light of the heart, as well as mutuwatir Sunnah, we must cling to Ahlulbayt and follow their path.

 

The path towards God is unseen, and the journey towards him takes through the vision of the soul, consequently, to believe in Imammate of Imam Mahdi, it takes belief in the unseen.

 

We ought to pray for God to guide us as well as all believers by the hands of Imam Mahdi.

 

We don't truly know the nature of this guidance really until we are on it.

 

One of the wisdom's in Ghayba is that people treated the Imams unjustly when they were present outwardly among them, but now, in ghayba, people crave the guidance of Imam Mahdi. 

 

When the world will come to the love of Al-Qurba, which is the wage of the message, then finally this love of the family of Mohammad will bring humanity into happiness, justice, and peace.

 

The wage of the message is the means towards God establishing his rule on earth. It's the means to help his cause and earn his pleasure. It's the path towards God.

 

You cannot be a true submitter to God and ignore the wage of the message. You must respond to the wage asked by God and his Messenger for the message.

 

In it it lies what truly was meant for us, "say: whatever wage I have asked you for it, it is for yourselves".

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really strange guys.... I'm sensing loads of negative edge in your words. Tone it down please... I didn't come here for abuse or to sense exclamation marks.

I'm just unpacking why we need to choose a sect or I need to if I'm at peace with just being a spiritual muslim woman.

Which sects were in the time of umar ? Or Ali ?

Difference of opinions yes but no sects

Read khalid Yahya blankinship article on succession

Each side is dishonest in not accepting flaws when it comes to loopholes in their versions ..

both sides are muslim and Quran is silent on issue of succession

Edited by Panzerwaffe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which sects were in the time of umar ? Or Ali ?

Difference of opinions yes but no sects

 

Brother, no matter how many times I hear this weak argument, I just laugh. What are sects? Why are there sects? It is difference of opinion, that defines sects. The only reason why there were no sects at the time of Muhammad A.S is because he was alive, and ironically, the same companions that were with him while he was alive, ended up having different beliefs to the point where no one even knows the correct method the prophet prays. So you tell me, what are the true beliefs of Muhammad A.S and whom should one take the truth from? Each sect claims to be following the true teachings of Muhammad A.S, all of them cannot be logically true.

 

Oh and to answer your question, there were differently sects in the time of Ali A.S for example, the kawarij.

 

 

Quran is silent on issue of succession

 

This very statement puts you into a separate school of though or "sect". We Shias, clearly reject such a notion, because we see definitions of divinely chosen representatives throughout the quran and the defining factor is Allah swt being the only judge in deciding who to chose.

Edited by Ethics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

So background history is that I am an open minded peaceful soul... I don't care for hate or holding on to negativity.... I'm Born into Sunni sect with interest in Sufism.

His pretty down to earn and does not practise his religion very much so my thinking and questions are my own completely. I'm very neutral when it comes to all the sect politics and focus on my basics but i am a curious soul so I've researched questions I have about Shia sect and some stuff is quite valid, interesting and makes me question was I was taught.

My question is- why do I have to be something? Why do I need to attach myself to a sect who ultimately ( either Shia or Sunni) have hate and anger towards each other?

Why must I pick a side? Can't I just be neutral spiritual muslim? Agree with things for example something I found out tonight and sympathise and believe that Fatima ( Ra) was killed brutally by Umar (ra) and that both sides have valid points.

I'm attracted to Shia values yet don't feel the need to label myself as anything different? Does it matter?

What do you mean by "spiritual"? I believe you have to belong to a traditional framework of some kind. I , for example, am a Shia even if I view Sunni Islam as another orthodox and valid path. The reason I consider myself Shia is because I am born into a Shia family, I practice Jaferi fiqh, and I believe in the sanctity and infallibility of all the 14 holy ones. The reason why I don't find a problem between being Shia and also considering Sunnism as a valid path is because I believe Sunnisma an Shiasm are simply two formal expressions of something Transcendent and beyond forms. Edited by eThErEaL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spiritual meaning meditate, reflect, zikr ( Sufi path) and yes I know there are spiritual Sunni and Shia people. Sufi focus on their connection with God and I wonder if I could just be a Sufi at heart just focussing on my relationship with Allah swt and just leave politics to who ever has time for it.

This whole I need to pick a system of ways (sect) when I have not even perfected my salat / fundamentals is odd. I may be brought up as a Sunni and have of late started questioning authenticity of things but I think I may just be as I am and perfect the fundamentals first. So focus on the inwards before the outwards stuff.

Its overwhelming all the things I need to sift through, double check or google to even check out the other side of the coin regarding Fatima Ra... It blew me away to hear another side of what I was taught. I have always walked against the natural grain in culture and life.... So this just really shook the fundamental idea I grew on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you mean by "spiritual"? I believe you have to belong to a traditional framework of some kind. I , for example, am a Shia even if I view Sunni Islam as another orthodox and valid path. The reason I consider myself Shia is because I am born into a Shia family, I practice Jaferi fiqh, and I believe in the sanctity and infallibility of all the 14 holy ones. The reason why I don't find a problem between being Shia and also considering Sunnism as a valid path is because I believe Sunnisma an Shiasm are simply two formal expressions of something Transcendent and beyond forms.

I always thought you to be Sufi  ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam ,

There is nothing such as Sufi in Shia Islam .

What you are refering to as in sufi is actually refered to as Irfan , and marefat Allah ( knowing Allah ) in shia Islam. ( thru Zikr, deep contemplation , taqwa, etc )

This is the main aim of Islam . To know your Lord.

The people who best achieved knowing Allah in their utmost capacity from humans was Prophet Muhammad then Imam Ali and the family chain.

The main reason you have to choose a path is mainly because of Salat .

Salat is a trust from Allah . So a trust must be proctected in the best of manner.

So if people pray in different manners , it shows the trust has been corrupted.

Thus the connection cannot be established, because it was not performed in the correct manner to achieve results.

The first deed that will be looked into, will be your prayers and how it was performed .

Imagine praying the wrong manner all these years just to know you were cheated !

The main issue around the shia belief is to follow the most knowledgeable, most just and courageous.

This is called intelligence.

Imam Ali was the most knowledgeable after the prophet.

Why would anyone follow less than best to seek the highest of high Allah ?

I would like to share a few brief audio files of the WISDOM behind our most fundemental grounding in shia Islam.

If sunni brothers could explain the full wisdom behind each one of their gestures and words in Salat I would be interested to listen , there is also an amazing file on zikr , I am definate you will devour them :)

The most important part of islam :

What is Zikr

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7n3kpbyjznibsns/zikr.mp3?dl=0

Wisdom behind Azan and Salat:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l8ly08gw0dmsve9/wisdom%20behind%20azan-salat.mp3?dl=0

Eitquette before Salat :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2d6z8oi19avspue/etiquette%20of%20praying.mp3?dl=0

Wisdom behind wudhu:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4h56anismengetm/wisdom-of-wudhu.mp3?dl=0

Wisdom behind Hijab

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7uio3yxy95784ho/hijab-maryam%20the%20secret.mp3?dl=0

If you found these files of interest let me know so I can share more.

Edited by tendersoul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who are the main people in Sufi path in Shia sect? Curious to research them

 

There is something called mysticism in Shia Islam. Sufism in Shia Islam is nothing to do with Sufis in Sunni world. Check out this biography:

 

http://www.al-islam.org/uswat-al-aarifeen-look-life-ayatullah-bahjat-yasin-t-al-jibouri/glimpses-life-grand-ayatullah-bahjat

http://www.islam-laws.com/marja/AytTaqi%20Behjat.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

 

The religion of God is submission. When he appoints a leader to lead humanity, we ought to submit to that leader. If people aren't aware of their leader or not guided by him, they ought to pray to God to be guided by God's guidance as he intends.

 

Remember Iblis had no problem worshiping God - but when he it came to an appointed representative of God, and a chosen exalted one, he showed arrogance.

 

Let's follow the path of submitting to Adam and Nuh and the family of Ibrahim and the family of Imran. In this day and age, it's through sincere love in the family of Mohammad.

 

Say: no wage do I ask for it except love in the near kin (of Mohammad). (42:23)

Say: no wage do I ask for it except who wants to, may take a path to his Lord. (25:57)

 

We don't chose who is our Leaders or the code of practice we ought to follow, the choice is not ours, it's God choice and it's upon us to submit.

 

Submission to the family of Mohammad also should not be just outward following and taking on outward traits, but real genuine love to their holy exalted spirits and following them out of that love.

 

We don't simply say "we will focus on God" when he made path towards him love of the family of Mohammad. Even in Salah, you must remember the family of Mohammad. This tells us we must recognize who they are as it's part of the connection to God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought you to be Sufi  ^_^

"Sufism" isnt a sect... unless fo course one blindly believes in propaganda by the Safavids.  "Sufism" was replaced by the term "Irfan".  So am I interested in Irfani topics.  sure.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

So background history is that I am an open minded peaceful soul... I don't care for hate or holding on to negativity.... I'm Born into Sunni sect with interest in Sufism.

His pretty down to earn and does not practise his religion very much so my thinking and questions are my own completely. I'm very neutral when it comes to all the sect politics and focus on my basics but i am a curious soul so I've researched questions I have about Shia sect and some stuff is quite valid, interesting and makes me question was I was taught.

My question is- why do I have to be something? Why do I need to attach myself to a sect who ultimately ( either Shia or Sunni) have hate and anger towards each other?

Why must I pick a side? Can't I just be neutral spiritual muslim? Agree with things for example something I found out tonight and sympathise and believe that Fatima ( Ra) was killed brutally by Umar (ra) and that both sides have valid points.

I'm attracted to Shia values yet don't feel the need to label myself as anything different? Does it matter?

 

You do not need to label yourself.  Society has it in their heads that they must, and it unfortunately puts pressure on you to do so as well, but you dont have to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Did a thought not come to you to ponder over what the reasons were behind why he murdered her(as) in the first place?
 
 
حَدَّثَنِي يَحْيَى بْنُ مَعِينٍ، وَصَدَقَةُ، قَالاَ أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، عَنْ شُعْبَةَ، عَنْ وَاقِدِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ ارْقُبُوا مُحَمَّدًا صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ‏.‏
 
 Narrated Ibn `Umar:Abu Bakr used to say, "Please Muhammad (i.e. the Prophet) by doing good to his family(Ahlulbayt)." [bukhari]
 
^The Irony in that Hadith is that it comes from the guy making this testimony. How did Abu Bakr and 'Umar treat Fatima(as) and 'Ali(as) after the death of the prophet(saw)?
 
 
حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْوَلِيدِ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ، عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ دِينَارٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي مُلَيْكَةَ، عَنِ الْمِسْوَرِ بْنِ مَخْرَمَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ فَاطِمَةُ بَضْعَةٌ مِنِّي، فَمَنْ أَغْضَبَهَا أَغْضَبَنِي ‏"‏‏.‏
 
Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:Allah's Messenger said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry." [bukhari]
 
 
 
 
Merely just angering Fatima angers the prophet and angering the prophet angers Allah, so what about murdering her? May Allah(swt) curse the enemies of the prophet(saw) and his chosen Ahlulbayt(as).

 

This is a perfect example of the limits of dogmatic reasoning.  Things arent that simplistic in reality.  "he who angers her angers me" arguments are sentimenta and emotional.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder, those who say it is not necessary to pick sides, would you have picked sides on the planes of Karbala...? Or remain silent and therefore equally guilty?

 

I'm of the personal opinion that, unless circumstances don't allow, a person should represent what they sincerely believe to be the truth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...