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Thanks in advance for letting me in here to ask a question.

At first, I wasn't young to bother the Shia because what with ISIS tearing around trying to put you folks on the endangered species list,I figured you had enough on your minds.

However, if any of you feel like answering an intercultural question, I'd be grateful.

So...

Daughter...commutes to college ( lives at home here in Washington State USA)

Shia gentleman...at same college ( lives there on campus...has family all over the planet)

Have some of the same classes ...known each other for over a year

He likes her and says he wants to have a relationship with her,but doesn't like the idea of "a girlfriend" at all.

( Ummmm...okay....she hasn't had a boyfriend before either so it's new for both)

Things you probably should know :

They are both 19.

According to daughter he's been a complete gentleman ....most likely because he's just that way or may be because she told him her dad will be happy to shoot his plumbing off and her brothers stomp him into a greasy spot if he isn't. He has met large portions of the family at campus event he was also present for and got " the glare" from the guys.

It does not seem to have scared him off, though.

Wanted to spend more time with her brothers and father.

He's an American citizen ( born here ) so no " green card" stuff.

We're not white ...so no blonde-haired blue-eyed "western woman " fascination stuff going on either.

To continue:

He goes home to mom and dad in the Middle East for vacation.

Tells them about daughter ( not sure exactly WHAT he told them)

But now he's back and I'm sitting here wondering why I suddenly have a table full of gifts from his parents.

( Daughter has some too...including stuff from his mom.)

There are some seriously nice things here.

This was unexpected and a bit confusing.

Do Arabs generally give presents to people they barely know half-way across the planet?

Is there a meaning to this because we don't want to make any multi-cultural missteps.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom you care to give.

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the fact that he has met ur family at campus shows ur relationship is serious. so obviously he told his parents there is this girl i wanna marry etc.. 

I'm not middle eastern but i think if u meet a girls family the relationship is pretty serious i.e you are gonna get married soon , and I think they are just sending gifts to be nice to their future daughter in law.

 

take what i say with a pinch of salt though, i might be wrong. the daughter should just ask the guy why his parents are sending presents, but im assuming he told his parents he wants to marry her

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He's up for marriage. It happens here in Pakistan too - the gifts are just meant to make your daughter (and your family in general) feel good and comfortable about the guy's family -a sign that they approve of the union :)

 

But if you aren't sure, just get your daughter to ask the guy (as politely as possible of course) about the  gifts and why his family sent them. 

Edited by apofomysback

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Thanks to all of you for your kind answers.

Marriage?

Wow.

They are only 19.

That's awfully young to be contemplating marriage.

Is that usual ?

Most 19 year old guys around here are only concerned with school or sports or parties.

Laayla, thanks for your answer...:-) The way things usually work around here is that the couple dates for a long while , decides to get married, get a ring, and the parents find out about the engagement as a ( hopefully happy) surprise. If the young man is very old-fashioned, he will ask her parents but they have usually decided beforehand anyway, so that almost never happens these days. Therefore,I had no context in which to put this event. Obviously he isn't playing by "our rules".

That's why I did what I tell my kids to do if they have an intercultural questions...try to ask people from the religion/culture/ethnicity/etc. to see if they can help you figure things out.

Ruq ( cute bear) my daughter has some beautiful gold necklaces , earrings, and bracelets, a couple of hand-tooled books of poetry, and an orchid in her favorite color ( he got that here, of course). We got some really intricately done inlaid bowls ,boxes,and trays,embroidered cloth, something that looks like an incense burner, some spices from his mom that I guess he found out from my daughter I like to cook with in some great canisters, and some beautiful baskets.

So this is kind of overwhelming and we're still collecting our thoughts on this.

IbnSina ,Smiley ,and Apofomysback..thanks for your help as well.

My daughter is beautiful and sweet and never gave my husband or me a day's trouble.

I know it sounds cliche but she is our only daughter and has always been our angel.

We love her with all our hearts and just want the best for her.

Naturally, we felt any thought of marriage for her would be years from now.

Kind of hard to get our minds around it if this is what you think it means.

Hope you forgive me if I say that it's a bit scary to talk to her and to ask her to get clarification from him.

But I will.

If you can think of anything else to help us get through this and feel like sharing, please do and thanks again for inviting me in.

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If you think he is a gentleman and will treat your daughter well, why are you less than enthusiastic about the idea of marriage ? 

 

Being as men are how they are nowdays, this might be the last gentleman she will meet in her life where marriage is a possibility

 

If he is muslim, and I am assuming he is, that is why you came here(lol), then there are two phases to the marriage. There is the Islamic Marriage, also called the Kitab (book, literal translation), where the sheik comes and writes their name in his  'book' and after that point they are considered as a married couple from a religious point of view. 

 

Then there is the cultural marriage, where she moves into his house. They do the tambourine and drum thing and that sound they make with their tongue and upper lip, people clap behind them down the street, you've probably seen in the movies.  These two marriage can sometimes be years apart, especially if the kids are young and still in college. This is very common nowdays for there to be a period of time between the religious marriage and the cultural marriage. 

 

So that means that they could do the religious marriage and then wait a few years, for you guys to get used to the idea, before they move in together and are generally known as a married couple to the community at large. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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If you think he is a gentleman and will treat your daughter well, why are you less than enthusiastic about the idea of marriage ? 

 

Being as men are how they are nowdays, this might be the last gentleman she will meet in her life where marriage is a possibility

 

^ Pay attention to this. Of course we don't know the guy, but those gifts definitely suggest marriage. Islam doesn't allow dating, which is maybe why he's rushing things. and if he loves your daughter this much, why not? 

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Thank you Mr. Abu Hadi for taking the time to answer me.

Yes, the young man is Shia Muslim...you're right,it would make little sense for me to be in here if he was,say, Hindu.

Yes, he is a gentleman and as far as I can tell he treats my daughter like a princess...she says with a great deal of respect and care.

I can't speak to what young men are like these days because I've been happily married for 30+ years, raised several young men whom I think are gentlemen like my husband,and my daughter has not shown interest any boy until now.

However, It is very unusual around here for anyone to get married in any way ( religious , civil, cultural, whatever) at 19 years old.

Folks here usually date quite a few people before settling down in their mid-twenties or so.

So it is difficult for parents brought up with those expectations to contemplate differently.

Not sure my daughter would understand the two ceremonies thing (one of them would have to include the marriage license from the Courthouse for it to be legal here)and once that was signed I think she would consider herself officially a bride and would want to move in with her husband right away.

Thanks again.

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Is this a troll post? You are a mother and you don't know the gifts are prerequisite to ask before marriage?

Why else is he coming to your home? He obviously isn't friends with your sons.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

 

No offense but not everyone is Middle Eastern/Iranian/Pakistani/Indian nor does everyone live around a Muslim community. As such, many people aren't familiar with marriage customs within these communities. I don't know why this is so terribly difficult to believe.

 

It's far better that this lady decided to respectfully ask questions and learn more about the gentleman's culture rather than jumping to conclusions and suspiciously assuming he has ill intentions (as many people who aren't familiar with other cultures might). 

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Well, as they say in the Wizard of Oz, guess I'm not in Kansas anymore.

Nineteen gives no one a problem?

I'm wondering why his family is so chill with this.

I'm beginning to understand that his mom and I probably won't be meeting over tea to discuss wedding plans and maybe the dads aren't going to be playing golf together grousing about the wedding plans but is this how it's done? ...don't they want to get to know her...or us?

They must trust their son a lot.

It's interesting they would be so accepting.

Thank you Apofomysback, it does appear he loves her.

Thanks, Alina, glad you think these questions are okay ( also nice to have someone answer who shares my daughter's name) :-)

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Dear Mom,

In American standards, it's a diamond ring. To get on one knee, and ask her "Will you marry me?"

He got her gold. He approached your family because he respects his potential bride and her parents and told them from day one that he doesn't do boyfriend/ girlfriend relationships. He informed his parents so they are in the picture too and obviously they are pleased because his mother also participated in sending gifts. He treated her like how he would have picked a bride from his homeland. He did every thing by the book.

Have you invited him for dinner? You can have her father ask questions in this setting to see what he is planning to do. You can explain your reservations or set conditions for this relationship to go forward if you choose too. Have your daughter be knowledgeable about what are his and her rights in an Islamic marriage. She can set an appointment with a sheikh from a local masjid or she can read about it more online. WWW.al-islam.org

I'm sorry if I came harsh. Your kind demeanor and patience helped me come back to my senses. God bless you and keep us posted with what happens.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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Thank you, Laayla. I completely understand. These intercultural exchanges are fraught with challenges. But when I asked an old professor friend of mine if I should follow my own advice and just find some Shia to speak to, she said that would be the best course as " Any Muslim can be nasty or nice,like anyone else, but many of the Shia live in multi-cultural, multi-ethnic,multi-faith areas ...so they are accustomed to diversity,are not usually easily offended,and generally are open to answering questions from outsiders".

Yes, we will take your advice and have him over for dinner. He has already requested to come over for a while again after the gift delivery...which I guess is something because he is still kind of quiet and shy around us. So maybe some of the mysteries of the universe will be solved soon. Don't know quite how this forum works so I hope I can keep you informed.

I guess my daughter will have to go online to follow your advice. Except for students at the college there are very few Muslims here ..ergo...no mosque and I don't think any local leadership. So getting good info on her own might be a bit of a challenge. But the concern of the folks here for my daughter's welfare and happiness is touching. Thank you.

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Thanks to all of you for your kind answers.

Marriage?

Wow.

They are only 19.

That's awfully young to be contemplating marriage.

Is that usual ?

Most 19 year old guys around here are only concerned with school or sports or parties.

Laayla, thanks for your answer...:-) The way things usually work around here is that the couple dates for a long while , decides to get married, get a ring, and the parents find out about the engagement as a ( hopefully happy) surprise. If the young man is very old-fashioned, he will ask her parents but they have usually decided beforehand anyway, so that almost never happens these days. Therefore,I had no context in which to put this event. Obviously he isn't playing by "our rules".

That's why I did what I tell my kids to do if they have an intercultural questions...try to ask people from the religion/culture/ethnicity/etc. to see if they can help you figure things out.

Ruq ( cute bear) my daughter has some beautiful gold necklaces , earrings, and bracelets, a couple of hand-tooled books of poetry, and an orchid in her favorite color ( he got that here, of course). We got some really intricately done inlaid bowls ,boxes,and trays,embroidered cloth, something that looks like an incense burner, some spices from his mom that I guess he found out from my daughter I like to cook with in some great canisters, and some beautiful baskets.

So this is kind of overwhelming and we're still collecting our thoughts on this.

IbnSina ,Smiley ,and Apofomysback..thanks for your help as well.

My daughter is beautiful and sweet and never gave my husband or me a day's trouble.

I know it sounds cliche but she is our only daughter and has always been our angel.

We love her with all our hearts and just want the best for her.

Naturally, we felt any thought of marriage for her would be years from now.

Kind of hard to get our minds around it if this is what you think it means.

Hope you forgive me if I say that it's a bit scary to talk to her and to ask her to get clarification from him.

But I will.

If you can think of anything else to help us get through this and feel like sharing, please do and thanks again for inviting me in.

Greetings

It seems he is innocent young man and he has very kind family whom might not aware of the cultural differences.

I've heard that in some American houses, receiving gifts from foreigners is offensive ?

Well , in Arab culture it is the norm to bring gifts to family and friends and co workers after traveling from the country one travelled to.

So when we go to china , we make sure to buy simple things like pendants or honey or something for relatives.

Gifts are givings out of love. They are not charity which giving out of sympathy. They are not bribes which is giving out of interest and need.

Gifts are a message of seeking your nearness. They are highly valued in our religion and in our culture.

We try to keep them simple so the other side will not find it over whelming thus shy and feel embarrassed that they cannot gift us something similar.

But when we are gifting our mothers , fathers, sons, daughters, siblings, wives, husbands, very special friend then we can just go very generous.

We buy gold, silver,gems, watches, perfumes , etc.

no need for an occasion. I can simply be shopping and see something that I know my sister would love so I but it to her.

As for marraige , it has been the custom for a while to buy gold (full set) plus the dawry for the bride plus some generous gifts for the mother in law.

Dating for long time is viewed in negative light . Even those who are engaged officially, even if they have valid written contract but marraige was not consummated , if the engagement period lasted for over a year or 2 , the girl family will start to question the guy seriousness regarding marraige . If the delay was from the girl side, the guy family will start to raise concerns regarding the girl seriousness.

Marraige itself is seen as sacred vow between the couple. What goes between them is seen as epoch of morality if it worked good or the lowest bottom of lewedness if it went wrong. God fearing man is smart investment.

Girl is expected to be patient with her husband as they go through life hardships ( financial etc) and husband is required to be patient with his wife as her responses can get overly emotional (she might insult him, beat him, kick him out of house)

Marraige has a contract that is written. The girl can write in it her conditions ( she can ask not to be stopped from education nor be forced out of work or to live in her own country or whatever matters to her)

The wife has the right to get residence, food and cloths even if she paid no bill.

Husband has the right to be sexually fulfilled. That's his only right.

Husband has to be obeyed regarding this right no matter what was the girl conditions. So if she wanted to work in another city away from her husband thus neglecting his right, then he has right to object on her travel, refuse to pay her anything or even divorce her.

Other arrangements are to be between the 2 couples as long as they are pleased, no one can have a say.

So if husband is ok with his wife travel, or if wife is ok to participate in buying food and paying bills, that's totally fine.

I have to go now but if I missed anything or you have more questions, just ask them away.

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Well, as they say in the Wizard of Oz, guess I'm not in Kansas anymore.

Nineteen gives no one a problem?

I'm wondering why his family is so chill with this.

I'm beginning to understand that his mom and I probably won't be meeting over tea to discuss wedding plans and maybe the dads aren't going to be playing golf together grousing about the wedding plans but is this how it's done? ...don't they want to get to know her...or us?

They must trust their son a lot.

It's interesting they would be so accepting.

Thank you Apofomysback, it does appear he loves her.

Thanks, Alina, glad you think these questions are okay ( also nice to have someone answer who shares my daughter's name) :-)

 

In most places in the world, outside the US, nineteen is considered a very normal age to be married. 

It is only in the US/Europe that it is considered unusual. 

 

I live in the US myself, but most of the people on the forum live outside the US. 

That might explain why 

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Dear Mom,

Just a head's up, so you don't think this Shia suitor is rude on dinner night. It would be best to have a vegeterian meal since he won't be eating meat items unless it is hallal meat/poultry (just like Jews eat Kosher). He can have salmon, bass, walleye anything fish with scales, not catfish since it has no scales. No pork products.

If it is customary for you and your family to have wine during dinner, out of respect don't include it on the dinner table when you invite him on this day.

Don't fret over dinner. Keep it simple and enjoy the conversation. It will be a dinner to remember!

If you would like to email this eBook to Alina , Marriage & Morals from an Islamic point of view

http://www.al-islam.org/marriage-and-morals-islam-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi

With God's protection,

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

Edited by Laayla

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That's wonderful advice Laayla :D

 

good luck alina's mom - i know things may be moving too quickly for you, but if guy is a true gentleman, trust me it's totally going to be worth it :)

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If he's a gentleman and she likes him, and they both are able to accept and respect the religious differences, why shouldn't she marry him? He will probably ask permission from your husband soon. Make sure you and husband and daughter all discuss before he proposes, just so you are all in agreement.

Congratulations!

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Greetings

It seems he is innocent young man and he has very kind family whom might not aware of the cultural differences.

I've heard that in some American houses, receiving gifts from foreigners is offensive ?

Well , in Arab culture it is the norm to bring gifts to family and friends and co workers after traveling from the country one travelled to.

So when we go to china , we make sure to buy simple things like pendants or honey or something for relatives.

Gifts are givings out of love. They are not charity which giving out of sympathy. They are not bribes which is giving out of interest and need.

Gifts are a message of seeking your nearness. They are highly valued in our religion and in our culture.

We try to keep them simple so the other side will not find it over whelming thus shy and feel embarrassed that they cannot gift us something similar.

But when we are gifting our mothers , fathers, sons, daughters, siblings, wives, husbands, very special friend then we can just go very generous.

We buy gold, silver,gems, watches, perfumes , etc.

no need for an occasion. I can simply be shopping and see something that I know my sister would love so I but it to her.

As for marraige , it has been the custom for a while to buy gold (full set) plus the dawry for the bride plus some generous gifts for the mother in law.

Dating for long time is viewed in negative light . Even those who are engaged officially, even if they have valid written contract but marraige was not consummated , if the engagement period lasted for over a year or 2 , the girl family will start to question the guy seriousness regarding marraige . If the delay was from the girl side, the guy family will start to raise concerns regarding the girl seriousness.

Marraige itself is seen as sacred vow between the couple. What goes between them is seen as epoch of morality if it worked good or the lowest bottom of lewedness if it went wrong. God fearing man is smart investment.

Girl is expected to be patient with her husband as they go through life hardships ( financial etc) and husband is required to be patient with his wife as her responses can get overly emotional (she might insult him, beat him, kick him out of house)

Marraige has a contract that is written. The girl can write in it her conditions ( she can ask not to be stopped from education nor be forced out of work or to live in her own country or whatever matters to her)

The wife has the right to get residence, food and cloths even if she paid no bill.

Husband has the right to be sexually fulfilled. That's his only right.

Husband has to be obeyed regarding this right no matter what was the girl conditions. So if she wanted to work in another city away from her husband thus neglecting his right, then he has right to object on her travel, refuse to pay her anything or even divorce her.

Other arrangements are to be between the 2 couples as long as they are pleased, no one can have a say.

So if husband is ok with his wife travel, or if wife is ok to participate in buying food and paying bills, that's totally fine.

I have to go now but if I missed anything or you have more questions, just ask them away.

************

Hi, CM

Thank you.

Yes, he seems to be a sweet, innocent young man and , if I try to look at things from his point of view, it must be crazy-making for him to try to balance two sets of social customs in his head at one time and keep everyone on all sides feeling happy and respected. But he also seems to be intelligent and courageous.

His personality is a lot like my daughter's, quite honestly.

Maybe that is why they are getting along well.

No, lol,it isn't offensive to get gifts from foreigners far as I know from anyone around here.

In fact, most Americans also do exactly what you describe when they travel and get small gifts for family and friends.

It's just that getting gifts like this from a family you don't know....foreign or not....you can see how it would be confusing.

One might expect a young man who admires one's daughter to buy her a little something, but gifts between parents don't usually happen until the families really get to know each other....like at holiday time.

Yes, it's pretty obvious from what has happened here that Arabs are kinda generous with the presents.

This stuff about " marriage contracts" is making my head swim. What's a " dawry?"?

The only time I heard about something like a marriage agreement was when a couple of my Jewish friends I went to college with got married, but I never paid any attention because it wasn't part of my own experience.

Are we expected to know this stuff?

Assuming my family and my daughter agreed to this....how would they even do this thing with no mosque or anything?

Don't you guys have a wedding ceremony of some sort?

Guess I will have to spend some time on Laaylas info and on Google.

(Trying to be a good, calm " just take a deep breath and get information "mother ...and not panic.)

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Don't make assumptions. Find out what is really happening. You don't know what his parents really think.

 

Also if you are uncomfortable with the idea of marriage but are okay with him having a relationship with your daughter, then there is something in Shia Islam called mutah. It will give them (and you) more time (even years) before deciding to finally marry. 

Edited by Muhammed Ali

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Dear Mom,

Just a head's up, so you don't think this Shia suitor is rude on dinner night. It would be best to have a vegeterian meal since he won't be eating meat items unless it is hallal meat/poultry (just like Jews eat Kosher). He can have salmon, bass, walleye anything fish with scales, not catfish since it has no scales. No pork products.

If it is customary for you and your family to have wine during dinner, out of respect don't include it on the dinner table when you invite him on this day.

Don't fret over dinner. Keep it simple and enjoy the conversation. It will be a dinner to remember!

If you would like to email this eBook to Alina , Marriage & Morals from an Islamic point of view

http://www.al-islam.org/marriage-and-morals-islam-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi

With God's protection,

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

******************

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Dear Mom,

Just a head's up, so you don't think this Shia suitor is rude on dinner night. It would be best to have a vegeterian meal since he won't be eating meat items unless it is hallal meat/poultry (just like Jews eat Kosher). He can have salmon, bass, walleye anything fish with scales, not catfish since it has no scales. No pork products.

If it is customary for you and your family to have wine during dinner, out of respect don't include it on the dinner table when you invite him on this day.

Don't fret over dinner. Keep it simple and enjoy the conversation. It will be a dinner to remember!

If you would like to email this eBook to Alina , Marriage & Morals from an Islamic point of view

http://www.al-islam.org/marriage-and-morals-islam-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi

With God's protection,

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

*************

Hi, Laayla,

Well, this will be easy.lol!

Yes, I did know that Muslims and Jews don't eat pork ( went to college with a few Jews). As it turns out, I don't like pork...lol! So we don't have it anyway. ( Some people think I have Jewish heritage because I won't eat it, but I just don't like it,that's all. I never could even stand the smell of it. My husband doesn't care...So my kids never had any either that I know of because I refused to have it or cook it.)

Due to alcoholism in members our extended families, we don't drink either. No religious reason ( although you do know there are some Christian groups that forbid alcohol as well?) it's just something we decided we didn't want to be part of our lives when we got married because it creates too much trouble and the presence and excess of it ( and any other drug)create an unhealthy environment for the raising of children. My kids have since thanked me for this. Some of their cousins their own age already have substance abuse problems. But my kids, thankfully, are all healthy and free of that. So I guess it was a good decision although many in the extended family didn't understand.

It will probably be a vegetarian meal anyways because my daughter is mostly vegetarian. She won't eat anything she thinks came from the "factory farm system", (which she considers immoral and cruel to animals) and only eats meat when she knows how it's been raised or if it is hunted or fished by her relatives. These are her own values she has followed since she was quite young. We live in a rural area where there is starting to be a lot of good,responsible farming and she has been involved in proper animal care and raising since she was a little girl. In fact, her scholarship to college was awarded for her work in responsible agriculture and animal husbandry throughout her grade school and high school years trying to be part of sustainable,responsible , and just systems of feeding people.

So probably will be no fret over the meal.

There will perhaps be plenty of other things to fret over, though.

I'm sure it will be a memorable dinner.

My husband is a community leader and is a fair but formidable man.

Thanks for the info for my daughter.

If and when the time comes, I'll be sure she sees it!

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Don't make assumptions. Find out what is really happening. You don't know what his parents really think.

 

Also if you are uncomfortable with the idea of marriage but are okay with him having a relationship with your daughter, then there is something in Shia Islam called mutah. It will give them (and you) more time (even years) before deciding to finally marry.

*************

Thank you but...What?

Don't worry.

We intend to find out what is going on.

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Thank you but...What?

"Mutah" is "temporary marriage". It sounds intimidating or strange, but is actually just Islamic dating. It can continue for as long as the couple wishes, and also can be ended whenever either wants. Some shia Muslims use a mutah agreement as an engagement. Others use it like dating, so they can take time to know each other. Still others stay with their "temporary" spouse for life.

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The dowry(also known as the 'bride price' in English) is something that used to be practiced in Christianity back in the old days, and it is part of Islam. In Islam, it is basically a gift that the groom gives to the bride in order to make her happy and create good relations with her family.The only difference between the dowry and other gifts is that the amount or type of dowry must be agreed upon by the bride and groom before the Islamic marriage is done...because this is part of the religion and also because the clergyman who does the marriage, i.e. the sheik will ask the bride and the family 'what is the dowry that is agreed upon'. Also, it is different because it must be given specifically with the intention of giving a dowry(maher in Arabic) and not just giving a gift in general. 

 

The dowry can be anything from a single rose to a million dollars, but is usually some amount of money or gift that has some monetary value. Most people give a certain amount of cash, gold, or jewelry. That is the most common, but like I said, it could be anything. It should be a 'gift' that is not too difficult for the groom to manage based on his economic position. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Oh, a " dowry".

Sorry, it was spelled with an "a" and that threw me off.

Yes, I know what that is.

You are right it is largely no longer done, but in earlier eras in a lot of western societies it was the wealth the bride brought into the marriage to encourage the potential groom, not the other way around.

Guess it's different for you.

Wow...contracts and family permission and dowries?

Difficult to think about.

Guess there isn't just going down to the Courthouse in your world?

I suppose you folks are really brave when it comes to relationships and believe in miracles because, no offense, it would seem you need at least one and then a banker and a lawyer just to get married!!

Have no idea how you even manage!

I also suppose I should thank you folks for your openness and patience with me and what must seem to you to be silly questions.

And the fact that you are not freaking out over an outsider young lady being close to one of " your" guys.

( Or the freak-outers are showing a lot of restraint)

There are understanding people in all faiths, but I can think of some Christian sites where me even mentioning this relationship would result in a cyber-bloodbath.

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"Mutah" is "temporary marriage". It sounds intimidating or strange, but is actually just Islamic dating. It can continue for as long as the couple wishes, and also can be ended whenever either wants. Some shia Muslims use a mutah agreement as an engagement. Others use it like dating, so they can take time to know each other. Still others stay with their "temporary" spouse for life.

Sorry...hitting the wrong buttons here so I hope this works,

Oh my goodness,no offense but what is the purpose of that?

Why doesn't he just date her then?

It's not like they're going to sleep together.

He's been patient for a year!

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Sorry...hitting the wrong buttons here so I hope this works,

Oh my goodness,no offense but what is the purpose of that?

Why doesn't he just date her then?

It's not like they're going to sleep together.

He's been patient for a year!

It's really the same thing, except all the expectations are clearly laid out from the start. It's supposed to protect both from misunderstanding, but any agreement involving the human heart will be imperfect.

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Sorry...hitting the wrong buttons here so I hope this works,

Oh my goodness,no offense but what is the purpose of that?

Why doesn't he just date her then?

It's not like they're going to sleep together.

He's been patient for a year!

because without marriage , a muslim man cannot touch a foreign woman , not even a hand shake. Talk is also restricted (flirting is prohibited and joking is questionable).

 

A relation between a man and woman in Islam has to be official , that is, the conditions of their relation should be clear for both, like how sister notme explained.

 

playful relations are big no no.

playful relations are those about playing with others emotions, maybe even taking advantage of them, using their money or body or whatever then suddenly leave to start another game in another place.

 

Children has a right in islam to know their own parents. It is prohibited to conceal the true names of parents from children and it is prohibited to add the child to another man as his son(they should be called after their fathers).

 

Inheritance is also an issue that islam made it clear how the descendants should divide the wealth.

another issue is the relatives marriage and other stuff. A man should know his true parents, his true relatives because marriage laws have restrictions on relatives by blood.

 

so as you see, there are many things that depend on marriage. 

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Dear Mom,

My sister wanted to hang out with some Christian friends back in MI. She was concerned about the alcohol since they drink. I was trying to find verses from the bible that forbid alcohol, but it only forbid being drunk. For Muslims, we have a hard time believing Jesus peace be upon him would drink.

Your daughter is considerate to nature and its creatures. I wish more parents would raise such kind and thoughtful children, the world would be a better place. As I'm sure you have seen in your area and all over the world, narcissism has engulfed the personalities of many. We live in sad times.

Much success to Alina wherever God takes her. Please if you have any concerns, questions, feel free to ask and don't hesitate. You have every right to know and ask about this young man before making any decisions. Ask him what family he has in the States and who are his friends. Family members of the potential bride ask questions about the suitor from his circle of friends, family, and neighbors.

With God's protection,

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

******************

*************

Hi, Laayla,

Well, this will be easy.lol!

Yes, I did know that Muslims and Jews don't eat pork ( went to college with a few Jews). As it turns out, I don't like pork...lol! So we don't have it anyway. ( Some people think I have Jewish heritage because I won't eat it, but I just don't like it,that's all. I never could even stand the smell of it. My husband doesn't care...So my kids never had any either that I know of because I refused to have it or cook it.)

Due to alcoholism in members our extended families, we don't drink either. No religious reason ( although you do know there are some Christian groups that forbid alcohol as well?) it's just something we decided we didn't want to be part of our lives when we got married because it creates too much trouble and the presence and excess of it ( and any other drug)create an unhealthy environment for the raising of children. My kids have since thanked me for this. Some of their cousins their own age already have substance abuse problems. But my kids, thankfully, are all healthy and free of that. So I guess it was a good decision although many in the extended family didn't understand.

It will probably be a vegetarian meal anyways because my daughter is mostly vegetarian. She won't eat anything she thinks came from the "factory farm system", (which she considers immoral and cruel to animals) and only eats meat when she knows how it's been raised or if it is hunted or fished by her relatives. These are her own values she has followed since she was quite young. We live in a rural area where there is starting to be a lot of good,responsible farming and she has been involved in proper animal care and raising since she was a little girl. In fact, her scholarship to college was awarded for her work in responsible agriculture and animal husbandry throughout her grade school and high school years trying to be part of sustainable,responsible , and just systems of feeding people.

So probably will be no fret over the meal.

There will perhaps be plenty of other things to fret over, though.

I'm sure it will be a memorable dinner.

My husband is a community leader and is a fair but formidable man.

Thanks for the info for my daughter.

If and when the time comes, I'll be sure she sees it!

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Okay, I have a little more time.

The dinner will have to wait until next week because I have relatives who dropped in on travels for a couple of days.

I'm glad we have some more time because as soon as the relatives leave we are going to have a long talk with our daughter to discuss all this in more detail, too.

To your suggestions:Ask about family and friends...got it.

I assume he is expecting this?

I would know what to ask about if he were raised around here ( in fact, I thought my daughter would end up with a guy from around here and we would know all about him and his family already) but what other things should we ask ?

I don't want to be rude to the young man...but this is our precious daughter we are talking about.

Pretty sure my husband is going to ask for some alone-time with him and just get to the main point ...like " what exactly are your intentions regarding my daughter?"

He's a very protective dad.

I hope the gentlemen in here understand, but there are a few things about this situation that I would like to discuss with only other women.

Not sure how I can do that.

Thanks for your help.

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2:186 AND IF My servants ask thee about Me - behold, I am near; I respond to the call of him who calls, whenever he calls unto Me: let them, then, respond unto Me, and believe in Me, so that they might follow the right way

وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُواْ لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُواْ بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Dear Mom,

Once you have 25 posts on the board, you can start using your private message. Read more about it below.

Becoming an Advanced Member

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234923141-why-cant-i-post-chat-pmemail-or-change-my-profile/

If you are unable to ask about family & friends due to their long distance, you can always try social media. For the past decade, some people have social media (I don't). Ask for his fb, instagram, twitter accounts. Maybe you will get an idea of what he is like or read his history on his page.

No one is suggesting for the marriage to happen within weeks. Your duty and you have been doing a great job so far is to ask about this young man and know his background. Sometimes, there might be a language barrier from his relatives, but don't let that stop you from trying until you find someone who can communicate to you. If it will become serious later on, and before the marriage takes place have your potential suitor arrange your daughter and a parent to accompany her to visit where he is from. Unless he is from a war torn country, then not a good idea to go. Then resort to Facetime or Skype.

This is going to take time and patience on both sides of the family, but it will be worth it in the end, since it will be one of the most important decisions of your life.

If I can suggest one thing, make a special prayer to God. Ask Him for His help and to guide your family to make the right decision. Say something to the effect, "Oh God, if this man will take care of my daughter and treat her with love and respect then please make it easy on us. If this man has bad intentions and will hurt her, keep him far away from us from the ground to the sky." I'm sure you can put it in better words.

وَقَالَ رَبُّكُمُ ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ

40:60 But your Sustainer says: “Call unto Me, [and] I shall respond to you!

Just take practical steps now, everything will take its course. You have an extra week to think about the questions you will ask and do some reading. Until then, ask us and we are happy to help. This is a pinned topic for all to read on this forum. Please have a look.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/53069-youth-and-relationships/

With God's protection,

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

Edited by Laayla

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I know this post has nothing to do with the subject at hand but I just want to at this time point out that I think your really awesome for caring so much for your daughter that you would actively search to a shia community and try and figure stuff out. It is really inspirational and I hope that I will one day be as good of a parent as you inshaAllah.

 

May Allah(SWT) bless you with that which is good for you and may he give you what you deserve in this life and in the next multiply it.

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Thank you IbnSina.

I'm sure you will be a fantastic parent when your time comes.

You'll also find out you'll just do anything to protect them.

It's an instinct any sane parent has.

I haven't always been the best parent because we all make mistakes, but my kids turned out well , thank goodness,and they all love and have a good relationship with my husband and me.

We're blessed.

Thanks again!

That was sweet.

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2:186 AND IF My servants ask thee about Me - behold, I am near; I respond to the call of him who calls, whenever he calls unto Me: let them, then, respond unto Me, and believe in Me, so that they might follow the right way

وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُواْ لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُواْ بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Dear Mom,

Once you have 25 posts on the board, you can start using your private message. Read more about it below.

Becoming an Advanced Memberhttp://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234923141-why-cant-i-post-chat-pmemail-or-change-my-profile/

If you are unable to ask about family & friends due to their long distance, you can always try social media. For the past decade, some people have social media (I don't). Ask for his fb, instagram, twitter accounts. Maybe you will get an idea of what he is like or read his history on his page.

No one is suggesting for the marriage to happen within weeks. Your duty and you have been doing a great job so far is to ask about this young man and know his background. Sometimes, there might be a language barrier from his relatives, but don't let that stop you from trying until you find someone who can communicate to you. If it will become serious later on, and before the marriage takes place have your potential suitor arrange your daughter and a parent to accompany her to visit where he is from. Unless he is from a war torn country, then not a good idea to go. Then resort to Facetime or Skype.

This is going to take time and patience on both sides of the family, but it will be worth it in the end, since it will be one of the most important decisions of your life.

If I can suggest one thing, make a special prayer to God. Ask Him for His help and to guide your family to make the right decision. Say something to the effect, "Oh God, if this man will take care of my daughter and treat her with love and respect then please make it easy on us. If this man has bad intentions and will hurt her, keep him far away from us from the ground to the sky." I'm sure you can put it in better words.

وَقَالَ رَبُّكُمُ ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ

40:60 But your Sustainer says: “Call unto Me, [and] I shall respond to you!

Just take practical steps now, everything will take its course. You have an extra week to think about the questions you will ask and do some reading. Until then, ask us and we are happy to help. This is a pinned topic for all to read on this forum. Please have a look. http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/53069-youth-and-relationships/

With God's protection,

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

*************************

Thank you, lol, of course we wouldn't allow anything to happen quickly if we could help it.

We do have to keep in mind that she is of legal age and could, if she wanted to, go get married to whomever she wishes, this guy or Joe the Drug-Dealer in the next town if she wanted to...and all without our permission.

I don't think she'd ever do that, though.

She's" Miss Responsible".

Doesn't seem like he'd be up for that either.

Daughter has said that he doesn't have much social media because he thinks it would take away from his study time.

( That also, of course, limits any interactions the two of them might have in that regard)

She says he probably wouldn't even have a phone if his parents didn't insist on it so he could keep in contact with them and his siblings.

I think his family speaks English reasonably well ( he obviously does) and at least his dad and mom,probably his brothers and sisters, too.

Some of them are educated in the West and have spent time here.

So I don't see much issue with language.

The whole visiting thing...I agree it's too soon to think about anything like that anyway.

Irregardless of the relationship with my daughter, he should be kept on your prayers in that regard.

His immediate family is safe, thankfully, but his extended family has been hit and my daughter says it causes him a lot of pain.

Thanks for the prayer.

When I was just a new mom a wise old person told me that I should not only pray for my family and kids, but for the parents and family of the future spouses of my kids, even though I might have no idea who they are, that they might have the wisdom, strength and grace to bring up good and honorable children. I've always thought that was good advice. :-)

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