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Would You Be A Second Wife?

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On 8/16/2015 at 5:54 PM, notme said:

Mainly because it would hurt the feelings of the first wife. Most women marry expecting to be their husband's only wife nowadays. For better or worse, if he takes another wife, it is likely that she will feel deficient, like she wasn't good enough for him. Nobody wants to cause that emotional pain to another woman.

In case of multplying and having many children one wife simply isn't strong enough maybe because of age or health. A second wife would be an option then, but she has to propose it herself.

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On 8/30/2015 at 4:36 PM, Mokhtar2012 said:

Is this true? I see that married women are humiliated a lot and people give a religious justification that ego needs to be crushed. What about the unmarried women and men? I see many unmarried women and men who are really arrogant and no one worries about their ego. Married women are usually very humble and they are door mats for other people, I don't see why their egos need to be crushed. 

I missed this post.

Anyways, I never said that anything needs to be crushed or that women needs to be humiliated or being used like door mats, I think your perception of the concept of  the idea of "the ego" is different from mine. You can use your personal experience and interpret what I said and put words in my mouth to fit along with you experience OR you can use your common sense and figure out what I was trying to say.

Whatever way suits you best, what I said and what I meant remains the same.

A women that is not consumed by her ego does not care so much about what other people think and say about her, she does not look for confirmation or reassurance from other people. She does not let her feeling and emotions, which so easily can be manipulated by society or people, have the final say, rather she is level headed and makes decision in accordance with her deen. She does not compare her husbands wealth with other people wealth. She recognizes that she is not super unique and special, rather she is humble and realizes that the world does not revolve around her and she is constantly aware of the objective of life on dunya.

That my friend, is a women you want to marry.

Likewise a man that is not consumed with greed will always be thankful for whatever he has. He will be immensely thankful for the blessing that is his wife and he will not sit and compare her to other women. He will realize that to have a wife is a gift from Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and a blessing and he will treat her right and with respect. He will not get more wives just because of sexual greed but he will be content with what Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى blessed him with and he will be thankful to Him and to his wife. And he will remember that the world does not revolve around him and his needs and he will constantly be ware of the objective of life on dunya and he will lead the family to victory inshaAllah.

That my friend, is a man you want to become.

Anyways, this is just my opinion like I stated in the quote you quoted me from and it does not have to be true. I am really not especially smart, clever or educated or experienced. So in conclusion: do whatever the hell you want.

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On 11/14/2015 at 5:16 PM, Gypsy said:

Why be second, third or fourth when you can be the first and the only one for him?

What's so special about being 'the one and only'?

On 11/15/2015 at 5:38 AM, Skanderbeg said:

Salam, 

I follow the sunnah of Prophet Adam a.s. One wife.

Why sunnah of Prophet Adam as?

On 11/15/2015 at 2:01 AM, Sumayyeh said:

Dear sisters....personally, the answer is 

Hell to the NO

Why,if I may ask?

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Sorry that I'm not able to read all the posts. Allah has allowed this right to the man for reasons a few of them being some men have the desire to be with more than 1 woman it's man nature. 2 man's nature is to have babies until his death so this may be hard to do if he wants with just 1 wife. Needing to submit to Allah is sometimes a struggle we have within ourselves. Every person has their own struggle for one woman it is this for another it may be hijab. The one main thing to be said is that we can't say that there is any fault in this law as Allah is above all imperfections. You may not want to be the "second wife" but this is a struggle that's within yourself. Struggling to submit is not a easy task but if we don't we will never get closer to Allah.

To answer your question from others view is sometimes a risky trail to tread as Ray becomes apparent and the truth becomes cloudy.

I would rather be hurt a million Times over than ever to see my husband do anything haram. We need to love our husband's through Allah, not without Allah. When we achieve this we achieve a good station towards Allah.

May Allah help us all to submit to him from the depth of our soul.

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You may not want to be the "second wife" but this is a struggle that's within yourself. Struggling to submit is not a easy task but if we don't we will never get closer to Allah.

.

Sorry...don't understand this. I can see how you can be a first wife and struggle to accept your husband taking another...but how do you struggle to accept being a second wife? If you don't want to participate in a plural marriage, don't you just tell the guy to hit the road?

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Being a second wife comes with its own struggles which one may not understand until they marry. It's not so easy being the second wife sometimes as the first wife may not be so friendly.

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If there nature is devotee for Allah and the Leader of the family ( MAN ) is pious then whether 2 wives or 4 , everyone will get there rights. But bcoz there is imbalancing in following proper shariah it is hard to provide equal rights. Better stay on one like Quran said.

 

There is no use to have more wives if they all are moron and not able to give proper education to kids. Don't forget Mother is the first teacher. So find a good teacher first then marry her.

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Why,if I may ask?

Putting me on the spot here buddy...  :) I like how you're trying to get a discussion though...

 

(For real though...it's just like No...can't stomach the thought of this.)

 

Here's a clip that can best address this topic (from English lectures I've seen so far):

 

 

(special note he makes to the sisters: put in your aqd/nikah that under no circumstances can your hubby get a second wife ;))

 

Insights from another lecture:  

The Quran clearly states that if men do marry more than one wife, they have to be fair to all wives. And then the Quran proceeds to say that it's not possible to be fair---that responsibility is impossible to fulfill. (Think about it...the husband has to spend the exact amount of time, exact amount of money, exact amount of caring, exact amount of attention, exact amount of kindness, exact amount of living conditions, etc....the list can go on forever.) From a humanly perspective--it's impossible. 

Basically, the message is that you can not possibly be fair, so don't even go there. 

 

When following the Sunnah, you look at how the Prophet ( s ) never married anyone during his marriage with Hazrat Khadijeh ( r a); the plural marriages that followed were for reasons that were unique to his position and role within the context of being a Prophet

 

This matter in our religion is clearly on an exceptional basis and  irrelevant in all practicality:

 

It can only happen when the first wife herself proposes the idea, and pardons the fact that the husband can't be entirely fair.

(and the case in which this scenario would even begin to make sense...is extremely rare). 

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(special note he makes to the sisters: put in your aqd/nikah that under no circumstances can your hubby get a second wife ;))

this is not permissable in shia jurisdiction as far as i know (meaning that it's not binding).

 

Insights from another lecture:  

The Quran clearly states that if men do marry more than one wife, they have to be fair to all wives. And then the Quran proceeds to say that it's not possible to be fair---that responsibility is impossible to fulfill. (Think about it...the husband has to spend the exact amount of time, exact amount of money, exact amount of caring, exact amount of attention, exact amount of kindness, exact amount of living conditions, etc....the list can go on forever.) From a humanly perspective--it's impossible. 

Basically, the message is that you can not possibly be fair, so don't even go there. 

these statements are completely wrong! "fair" does not mean 100% equality. scholars have discussed this extensively. fairness generally means treating each wife accordingly (according to her characteristics and background), and spending at least one night out of four nights (each four nights is a cycle) with each wife (this applies even if one has only one wife). when the quran goes on to say "that it's not possible to be fair" it means absolute equality, which is impossible, even for prophets and imams. so the only type of fairness required is the first.

 

When following the Sunnah, you look at how the Prophet ( s ) never married anyone during his marriage with Hazrat Khadijeh ( r a); the plural marriages that followed were for reasons that were unique to his position and role within the context of being a Prophet

 

This matter in our religion is clearly on an exceptional basis and  irrelevant in all practicality:

 

It can only happen when the first wife herself proposes the idea, and pardons the fact that the husband can't be entirely fair.

(and the case in which this scenario would even begin to make sense...is extremely rare). 

not true, as i explained above.

 

disclaimer: i'm not personally a proponent of multiple simultaneous permanent marriages (except under certain circumstances, as some have mentioned).

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I think its 100 as per Muslims and 400 as per Christians. I could be wrong on numbers.

No way!

 

What's so special about being 'the one and only'?

[Edited: Best to avoid such comments. Let's present arguments rather than dwelling in personal matters]

Edited by Abbas.

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Dear sisters....personally, the answer is 

 

Hell to the NO

Lol!

In the West it would be a bad move for the guy, anyway. Not to mention illegal. Only the legal wife has rights. And that's one per customer...at least at a time. Civil law does not care about Muslim Sharia law or Catholic Canon law.

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I think its 100 as per Muslims and 400 as per Christians. I could be wrong on numbers.

It's actually 700 wives and 300 concubines:( kind of interesting commentary on them, though)

First Kings 11:1-3

1 King Solomon loved many foreign women besides the daughter of Pharaoh—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, Hittites—

2 from nations of which the Lord had said to the Israelites: You shall not join with them and they shall not join with you, lest they turn your hearts to their gods. But Solomon held them close in love.

3He had as wives seven hundred princesses and three hundred concubines, and they turned his heart.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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I'm actually kind of curious about the " charity marriages"( my term, not his) SG says one of his relatives does. He says the fellow has quite a few wives he marries and helps support them and their kids...and almost never sees them, much less sleeps with them.

My natural inclination towards skepticism makes me want to say " Oh, you poor innocent lamb...you really think that's how it is?"

But then my faith in his perception and the basic goodness of people makes me want to say...." Could be just the way he says and be the best way to help in some places and situations."

Anyway, I was going to write that if someone told me ten years ago I'd be having a conversation about these sorts of things with a guy who wanted to wed my daughter, I'd have laughed at them. Then I remembered my husband's great-uncle , quite a character and someone I loved, couldn't ever remember how many wives he'd married, either. But that was one at a time and he was pretty sure they'd all divorced him before he married again. But only pretty sure. Lol!

Probably needs to be another thread...but I'm feeling lazy.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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I'm actually kind of curious about the " charity marriages"( my term, not his) SG says one of his relatives does. He says the fellow has quite a few wives he marries and helps support them and their kids...and almost never sees them, much less sleeps with them.

My natural inclination towards skepticism makes me want to say " Oh, you poor innocent lamb...you really think that's how it is?"

But then my faith in his perception and the basic goodness of people makes me want to say...." Could be just the way he says and be the best way to help in some places and situations."

Anyway, I was going to write that if someone told me ten years ago I'd be having a conversation about these sorts of things with a guy who wanted to wed my daughter, I'd have laughed at them. Then I remembered my husband's great-uncle , quite a character and someone I loved, couldn't ever remember how many wives he'd married, either. But that was one at a time and he was pretty sure they'd all divorced him before he married again. But only pretty sure. Lol!

Probably needs to be another thread...but I'm feeling lazy.

When charity marriages are memtioned, it is usually mutah. Usually what happens in a mutah is what SG described when talking about his uncle, unlike the wrong-headed accusation that mutah is strictly for physical relations. The man usually finances a woman for short period of time, agreed on by the both parties. But every circumstance is different in mutah.

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Bunch of hippies, it's halal. It's like discussing if you would marry a woman that wants to exercise her right given to her by Allah. 

You can't tell me that you aren't influenced by western culture and then say things like "NEVER!!!" when asked this question. 

 

Flame on!


 

 

Insights from another lecture:  

The Quran clearly states that if men do marry more than one wife, they have to be fair to all wives. And then the Quran proceeds to say that it's not possible to be fair---that responsibility is impossible to fulfill. (Think about it...the husband has to spend the exact amount of time, exact amount of money, exact amount of caring, exact amount of attention, exact amount of kindness, exact amount of living conditions, etc....the list can go on forever.) From a humanly perspective--it's impossible. 

Basically, the message is that you can not possibly be fair, so don't even go there. 

 

 

This has got to be the worst insight to the Quran i've ever seen. Just the very fact that anyone would believe that Quran says, you are allowed to do Y if you can do X, but X is impossible, is silly. Quran isn't a joke book where it decides to tease you. Chicken is halal..........buuuuut only if you kill it by starring at it!

 

And it's not EXACT, it's treat them fairly to your ability as a human. God doesn't measure if you spent exactly 12 hours, 22 minutes, 54 seconds, 393 milliseconds on each wife. It is sufficient to Allah that you have spent 1 week here, one week there. 

 

I didn't watch the lecture, but if that is what the guy said, he needs to get thrown off the stage for being an illiterate. 

 

 

How does this hajj sheikh explain all the people during the prophets time that did have multiple times? Or Imam Ali's time? Or Imam Husseins time? 

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^ But the question was if women would want to be a second wife. If they don't want to, for whatever reason, there's no problem, right? No one has to get married. I still see the problem of "acceptance" of this sort of thing as being an issue for a first wife. Any subsequent ones should know what they are getting themselves into and take a pass if they don't like it. Seems to me this is an issue in control of the women, unless women are being forced to marry...which brings in, according to you folks, an entirely different set of problems.

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Polygamy makes sense when resources are short. In times of plenty it doesn't. This is from a biological viewpoint and extrapolating primatology to apply to humans, so disregard if you are of the opinion that humans are very different from other animals.

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Salam,

 

If God has written marriage for me, I want to make sure to have 'permission to divorce if husband marries again (both temporary and permanent)' and 'husband must inform of any other marriages' as conditions, since divorce is only allowed under certain circumstances and second/multiple marriages can be conducted without the first wives consent/knowledge. I think that says a lot about my PERSONAL stand. God forbid it from ever happening to me, but if it were to happen I would see it as a scourge, bedevil, a ma'sa. Complete misfortune of luck and choice of a spouse. I would resent him, forever. And I would probably ask for a divorce. Still, there are exceptions. If I lacked (e.g. couldn't conceive children), I would hurt but I'd understand and accept. 

 

Other exceptions include countries in which women cannot support themselves like in the west. So if a man marries multiple women to provide and support them (and their children if they had any), it would be quite honourable. But it's all about intent, and sadly, we can't see this. You can't tell apart the honourable man from the perverse man with his sick harem fantasy. If the woman have no other suitors and may never have any (due to age, appearance, children etc.), I think it would be most appropriate for a man with a wife to propose.  Although, I think it's least ideal/appropriate if the women live together. Women can get quite jealous and possessive. Most don't like sharing either.

 

So there you have another opinion :) 

 

All the best with whatever you need these answers for

 

ws. 

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^ But the question was if women would want to be a second wife. If they don't want to, for whatever reason, there's no problem, right? No one has to get married. I still see the problem of "acceptance" of this sort of thing as being an issue for a first wife. Any subsequent ones should know what they are getting themselves into and take a pass if they don't like it. Seems to me this is an issue in control of the women, unless women are being forced to marry...which brings in, according to you folks, an entirely different set of problems.

 

There isn't a problem. The issue here is the reasons people are giving are influenced by other cultures than our very own. You pointed it out: "issue" for the first wife. If you accept the religion, you can't start picking and choosing what you are ok with, and then proclaim yourself as Ayatollah Uzma to make reasons for it to be ok. 

 

Is it ok for me to have a problem with paying my wife money for maintaining the house? If it is her right, then why would i not be ok with it? I might even give her money, but if i make her feel like garbage about it, is that ok?

 

 

Polygamy makes sense when resources are short. In times of plenty it doesn't. This is from a biological viewpoint and extrapolating primatology to apply to humans, so disregard if you are of the opinion that humans are very different from other animals.

 

God hasn't given a reason as to when it is advised and when it isn't. If you can treat them fairly, then you can take up to four. If it was for God to make it more sensible for us he would say so. The laws and rights given to mankind though the Quran isn't for the individual to make sense of. Like it makes sense for me so i agree with, it doesn't make sense for you so you don't agree with it? 

 

Whenever something fishy comes along that tickles our ego and pride, we tend to turn to words such as "make sense", "logical", so i ask how many people, from the garbage man to the scientist, to the Ulama do you know that can give you a logical explanation to how on earth the way we do Wuthu cleanses anything at all? In any case, it smears the dirt all over.

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Salam,

 

If God has written marriage for me, I want to make sure to have 'permission to divorce if husband marries again (both temporary and permanent)' and 'husband must inform of any other marriages' as conditions, since divorce is only allowed under certain circumstances and second/multiple marriages can be conducted without the first wives consent/knowledge. I think that says a lot about my PERSONAL stand. God forbid it from ever happening to me, but if it were to happen I would see it as a scourge, bedevil, a ma'sa. Complete misfortune of luck and choice of a spouse. I would resent him, forever. And I would probably ask for a divorce. Still, there are exceptions. If I lacked (e.g. couldn't conceive children), I would hurt but I'd understand and accept. 

 

ws. 

 

 

What would you say to a man that before marriage writes down a bunch of conditions that take away your rights? Such as protection, promising to provide, give you children, etc? How would you feel if he presented something that forbade something that God made halal for you? 

 

 

Other exceptions include countries in which women cannot support themselves like in the west. So if a man marries multiple women to provide and support them (and their children if they had any), it would be quite honourable. But it's all about intent, and sadly, we can't see this. You can't tell apart the honourable man from the perverse man with his sick harem fantasy. If the woman have no other suitors and may never have any (due to age, appearance, children etc.), I think it would be most appropriate for a man with a wife to propose.  Although, I think it's least ideal/appropriate if the women live together. Women can get quite jealous and possessive. Most don't like sharing either.

 

So there you have another opinion  :)

 

All the best with whatever you need these answers for

 

 

Where do you get this from though? "It's like saying to your kid, hey you can have 4 marshmallows, but only if you don't eat them all at the same time"

This is your law.

 

Then someone comes along and says, "it's acceptable only if he promises not to eat an orange afterwards or if you can give me a reason as to why you want 4!"

This isn't part of the law and is made up. 

 

This is essentially what people are doing. 

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Other exceptions include countries in which women cannot support themselves like in the west. So if a man marries multiple women to provide and support them (and their children if they had any), it would be quite honourable. But it's all about intent, and sadly, we can't see this. You can't tell apart the honourable man from the perverse man with his sick harem fantasy. If the woman have no other suitors and may never have any (due to age, appearance, children etc.), I think it would be most appropriate for a man with a wife to propose.  Although, I think it's least ideal/appropriate if the women live together. Women can get quite jealous and possessive. Most don't like sharing either.

salam;

 

not to ruffle any feathers or offend anyone, but ,why do you think that a man with a harem fantasy is perverse and sick? i can easily argue that a man without a harem fantasy is sick, or not a real man. no woman should be forced to marry any man, for any reason. however, she'd probably be deluding herself if she thinks that there is a real man somewhere who doesn't have a harem fantasy or some such.

 

Polygamy makes sense when resources are short. In times of plenty it doesn't. This is from a biological viewpoint and extrapolating primatology to apply to humans, so disregard if you are of the opinion that humans are very different from other animals.

even animals are different from each other, let alone humans.

We have to remember that regardless of what Hollywood says, marriage is -- at its root -- a social contract. This does not mean there cannot be love or affection in a marriage; in fact, the best marriages have these things. But if those things are absent, it should not prevent anyone from engaging in this divine tradition. And it works both ways; I am not singling out women. For example: after the Islamic revolution, Imam Khomeini encouraged all the prostitutes -- who had been given free reign under the previous regime -- to get married. A lot of us men would have major problems with marrying these ex-prostitutes. But guess what? This was a necessary thing to stop a corruption in society.

no self-respecting man would ever marry (permanent marriage) a prostitute or anything of the sort (i won't elaborate, intentionally).

 

Marriage is a divine tradition. It is a very bad thing for anyone to purposely avoid marriage, or to get married late (deliberately). If a marriage has "romantic" love, that's fine. If it does not, that does not necessarily make it deficient. It can still serve its purpose as a social contract. Preventing people from going into sin, forcing people to compromise their egos, and so on.

i completely disagree that intentionally avoiding marriage is a bad thing.

Edited by Einstein

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no self-respecting man would ever marry (permanent marriage) a prostitute or anything of the sort (i won't elaborate, intentionally).

 

Ex-prostitute

 

Ghirah does not apply to the past. This notion of ghirah applying to the past is an invented tradition.

 

 

 

i completely disagree that intentionally avoiding marriage is a bad thing.

 

 

OK...

 

But that's our sunnah. You can disagree all you want, it doesn't change our sunnah.

 

Edited by baradar_jackson

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