Interpretation Of Angels

[anzurna]

Salam Brothers and Sisters,

 

Can we interpret angles as forces and principles driving this and any other universe ?

 

This idea came to me that we are used to think of angles having some form similar to human being, but Quran says that sometimes, they came in the form of human, which means that their actual form is not human.

 

All angles prostrate before Adam, it could mean that Allah made all the forces and principle of this and any other universe obey the man, and man can achieve such a status that he could modify/bend the forces and principles to his will, see: cloud seeding for artificial raining, also water cycle, see these are forces doing things which we are told are done by angels, so can we conclude that the angels are synonyms for forces/energies/principles ?

 

We learn that no one can harm angles and we know that energy can not be created nor destroyed, it can only be transformed from one form to another.

 

We also learned that angels are always in worship to Allah, and the meaning of worship is more than just bowing and prostration, doing the assigned job for which one is responsible from Allah, is also kind of worship.

 

We can not see angels from our eyes, but the higher state people see them, could it mean from their eye of wisdom as we can easily know the existence of forces and energies with simple experiments.

 

So, is it correct or wrong to say that angels are  forces/energies/principles driving this and any other universe, or they are entirely different thing than what I stated here ?

 

Thank you.

[anzurna]

Salam friends, does anyone know/remember any Hadeeth in favour or against this view ?

[tendersoul]

Salam,

Angels obey the commands of Allah and bring the commands down every Lay latul qadr.

There are other beings that are given that power .

For instance Dhul qarnin , khizr , etc.

[anzurna]

Salam Bro. tendersoul,

I completely agree with you. According to the interpretation above, supposedly, if some angles are the force which cause rain, and using cloud seeding man make the cloud rains, it is still obeying the command of Allah. Similarly, bringing commands down every Laylatul Qadr doesn't mean (I don't know, just supposing) something like human form with wings taking a scroll from heaven to Prophets or Imams, as we imagine, it supposedly could be any thing we can't understand, such as we heard that sometimes when our Prophet PBUH receive the commands during sleep, His PBUH head got heavy (I don't know whether we 12wers believe this narration or not). The other fact is that sometimes, Prophet get commands as true dreams, see here, commands are not in scroll form.

 

If anyone could provide Ayaats/Hadeeths/scholarly works regarding supporting or rejection of this idea, I will be grateful.

 

Thank you.

[tendersoul]

Salam ,

I am sharing with you what I recall and learnt from my teacher.

Surah qadr:

إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَاهُ فِي لَيْلَةِ الْقَدْرِ ﴿1﴾

We sent ( the book ) down in the night of decree

تَنَزَّلُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ فِيهَا بِإِذْنِ رَبِّهِم مِّن كُلِّ أَمْرٍ ﴿4﴾

the angels and the spirit descend therein, by the permission of their lord, with all decrees.

--------

Now as per what my teacher explained the angels actually do bring down our decree قدر along with - spirits- by the permission of Allah.

The spirit is like the force - my teacher calls the electricity .

Hence the force روح is brought down along with angels .

These decrees for example 35,000 breath which need the force روح for you to breath for 35,000 inhaling and exhaling .

Once you reach this amount your decree قدر has been fulfilled .

Then you die.

[anzurna]

Thank you Brother Tendersoul.

 

has anyone else something to share in this view :)

 

I  am bumped...

[tendersoul]

Salam ,

No problem , but a more thought provoking answer is in your inbox :)

Wasalam

[tendersoul]

Salam ,

The commands which you are talking about to prophets is called وحى inspiration as you may know. The bee also gets inspiratins from Allah.

Yes and the prophets may have gotten heavy headed or shivered severely because of the content , frequency/ purity of the downloaded / inspired content.

[hasanhh]

Salam Brothers and Sisters,

 

Can we interpret angles as forces and principles driving this and any other universe ?

 

This idea came to me...

 

Thank you.

 

Sura 66:6     So there ain't no "interpretations" about angels as "forces and principles".

[eThErEaL]

Salam Brothers and Sisters,

 

Can we interpret angles as forces and principles driving this and any other universe ?

 

This idea came to me that we are used to think of angles having some form similar to human being, but Quran says that sometimes, they came in the form of human, which means that their actual form is not human.

 

All angles prostrate before Adam, it could mean that Allah made all the forces and principle of this and any other universe obey the man, and man can achieve such a status that he could modify/bend the forces and principles to his will, see: cloud seeding for artificial raining, also water cycle, see these are forces doing things which we are told are done by angels, so can we conclude that the angels are synonyms for forces/energies/principles ?

 

We learn that no one can harm angles and we know that energy can not be created nor destroyed, it can only be transformed from one form to another.

 

We also learned that angels are always in worship to Allah, and the meaning of worship is more than just bowing and prostration, doing the assigned job for which one is responsible from Allah, is also kind of worship.

 

We can not see angels from our eyes, but the higher state people see them, could it mean from their eye of wisdom as we can easily know the existence of forces and energies with simple experiments.

 

So, is it correct or wrong to say that angels are  forces/energies/principles driving this and any other universe, or they are entirely different thing than what I stated here ?

 

Thank you.

 

You would like angels to be nothing but a "force".  may I ask why?  What is your unstated motive?  Obviously you are trying to make sense of "WHAT" these beings called "angels" are.  But why "FORCE, ENERGY, or PRINCIPLE"?  and what do you have in mind by "force" or those other terms you used?

 

If you really want to understand this topic well you need to delve into Islamic Cosmology.  You have to understand what defines the cosmos or universe.  what realms the cosmos (universe) is made up of.  what relation all of the parts (realms/ worlds)  have with each other.  What or who occupies each of these realms.  If you want i can recommend some books for you to start of with.  

 

But to give you a brief answer for now.  We know from the Quran that angels are made of "light" just as How God is Light (Nur).  The difference between them is that God is uncreated light while the angels are created light.  Angels are conscious beings.  They have awareness.  They have knowledge.  They are "active agents" in relation to the worlds below the heavens.  But what you probably wan to know is if they have a "form".  And to this i would say, no.  Because they are beyond "forms".  They can be expressed through a form but they are themselves beyond forms.  So do you still want to call these beings "forces"?  If so why?  And you also used the word "energy"/  Why do you want to use these terms when they are laden with so much materialistic ideas.    

[tendersoul]

You would like angels to be nothing but a "force".  may I ask why?  What is your unstated motive?  Obviously you are trying to make sense of "WHAT" these beings called "angels" are.  But why "FORCE, ENERGY, or PRINCIPLE"?  and what do you have in mind by "force" or those other terms you used?

 

If you really want to understand this topic well you need to delve into Islamic Cosmology.  You have to understand what defines the cosmos or universe.  what realms the cosmos (universe) is made up of.  what relation all of the parts (realms/ worlds)  have with each other.  What or who occupies each of these realms.  If you want i can recommend some books for you to start of with.  

 

But to give you a brief answer for now.  We know from the Quran that angels are made of "light" just as How God is Light (Nur).  The difference between them is that God is uncreated light while the angels are created light.  Angels are conscious beings.  They have awareness.  They have knowledge.  They are "active agents" in relation to the worlds below the heavens.  But what you probably wan to know is if they have a "form".  And to this i would say, no.  Because they are beyond "forms".  They can be expressed through a form but they are themselves beyond forms.  So do you still want to call these beings "forces"?  If so why?  And you also used the word "energy"/  Why do you want to use these terms when they are laden with so much materialistic ideas.

Salam,

Angels do have a form but it is unlike human which is of harder form . The reason being is humans are needy creatures. The have needs to eat , sleep , mate, and digest. Hence the body of human is of soil/ mud.

However angels do not have any need to eat, sleep/ mate etc hence do not require a a material type of body/ form like humans have.

However they do have a form with wings :

Quran 35:1

[All] praise is [due] to Allah , Creator of the heavens and the earth, [who] made the angels messengers having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.

------

Wings is a form, you cannot have formless wings .

Wasalam

[eThErEaL]

Salam,

Angels do have a form but it is unlike human which is of harder form . The reason being is humans are needy creatures. The have needs to eat , sleep , mate, and digest. Hence the body of human is of soil/ mud.

However angels do not have any need to eat, sleep/ mate etc hence do not require a a material type of body/ form like humans have.

However they do have a form with wings :

Quran 35:1

[All] praise is [due] to Allah , Creator of the heavens and the earth, [who] made the angels messengers having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.

------

Wings is a form, you cannot have formless wings .

Wasalam

That is why they express themselves in that particular form when they enter the lower realms. But in themselves they are formless.

[tendersoul]

That is why they express themselves in that particular form when they enter the lower realms. But in themselves they are formless.

Salam ,

What , I am sharing here, is not my personal opinions , but ,Is what my teacher has taught us who has been in Irfan for the past 35 years and is clairaudience, clairvoyant , with extensive knowledge , and knows the whole Quran and Al- kafi pretty much by heart without actually memorizing them like most do . Lets say he is gifted .

I agree angels express themselves, according to the dimensions they enter. But their form is with wings in their own realm .( according to the aya above.

And the aya below , when they enter our earth.

Quran:

6:8

And they say, "Why was there not ***sent down ***to him an angel?" But if We had ***sent down an angel***, the matter would have been decided; then they would not be reprieved.

6:9

And if We ***had made him an angel***We would have ***made ***him [appear as] ***a man***, and We would have covered them with that in which they cover themselves.

When they enter into the earthly dimension they come is the form of * man * as per the Quran .

In one aya Quran states, how they actually look like ( the aya I shared in my previous post )

and in another aya it mentions that if they have to come to human beings they come in the man human form. But their form in their own dimensions is with wings.

Having said that , I was taught that , They are beings which are formless but are not angels .

They are of higher consciousness.The higher the consciousness the more formless.

These beings are not really revealed openly in the quran but are part of what is known as مابينهما and what is between the heavens and the earth. They are mysterious beings thus Allah does not fully reveal them. This too has another reason according to my teacher.

If you feel to understand abit more, I can send you a brief audio file in your inbox, where a question is asked about the original form of human being and something about angels , is explained to a questioner . You can pm me if interested .

Unfortunately most of our over 500 recorded sessions of discussions with him have been in farsi , and just a few in English, as most farsi speaking people were more interested about Such topics in comparison to the English speaking crowd, otherwise I would have shared the farsi audio files if you were interested.

Wasalam

[anzurna]

Thank you friend @eThErEal for your input.

 

Let me ask you a simple question, according to concepts of raining in Islam, Hazrat Mikhail (s.a.) is an archangel responsible for raining and thunder, now scientifically it is proved that sun heated the water, vapors form cloud, wind blow the clouds and a process causes the clouds to rain and thunder. Where is the Hazrat Mikhail (s.a.) comes in picture ? Even when clouds are going to rain in Istambul and (for example.) it below above Iran, using Cloud Seeding technique, Iran can forced the clouds to rain there, instead of Istambul.

 

I am not saying that I don't believe in Hazrat Mikhail (s.a.), I am only trying to understand the Islamic concepts in terms of our very limited knowledge. If we stop thinking in these terms, we will left behind others and also these thing could distract a lot of people in future.

 

About "Nur", it is not something like the light we see, the light we can see consits of photons. Photons can be blocked, captured, break up, so on. This light takes time to travel from one place to another. See here, "Nur" word was used by Allah to let us understand things, not in literally meanings. I listened to a lecture a while ago, which describes a hadeeth that Nur of Allah by definition is something which doesnot composed of anything, which can not be divided or collected. Also  the Nur of Allah is different form the Nur of Angles.

 

Thank you friend @Tendersoul for you useful input. I will keep in mind to contact you further in this regards :)

[musim 1992]

Salam Brothers and Sisters,

 

Can we interpret angles as forces and principles driving this and any other universe ?

 

This idea came to me that we are used to think of angles having some form similar to human being, but Quran says that sometimes, they came in the form of human, which means that their actual form is not human.

 

All angles prostrate before Adam, it could mean that Allah made all the forces and principle of this and any other universe obey the man, and man can achieve such a status that he could modify/bend the forces and principles to his will, see: cloud seeding for artificial raining, also water cycle, see these are forces doing things which we are told are done by angels, so can we conclude that the angels are synonyms for forces/energies/principles ?

 

We learn that no one can harm angles and we know that energy can not be created nor destroyed, it can only be transformed from one form to another.

 

We also learned that angels are always in worship to Allah, and the meaning of worship is more than just bowing and prostration, doing the assigned job for which one is responsible from Allah, is also kind of worship.

 

We can not see angels from our eyes, but the higher state people see them, could it mean from their eye of wisdom as we can easily know the existence of forces and energies with simple experiments.

 

So, is it correct or wrong to say that angels are  forces/energies/principles driving this and any other universe, or they are entirely different thing than what I stated here ?

 

Thank you.

 

It is wrong to say that angels are forces and/or energies and/or principles of any kind.

 

Angels are conscious beings. Here are a few proofs:

 

Angles have wings

 

[All] praise is [due] to Allah , Creator of the heavens and the earth, [who] made the angels messengers having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.

(Surah Al Fatir, Ayat 01)

This verse clearly states that angles have wings. How would one interpret this ayat if angels were to be considered forces or principles etc.

 

Mention of Number of Angels

 

[Remember] when you said to the believers, "Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord should reinforce you with three thousand angels sent down?

(Surah Al-e-Imran, Ayat 124)

Here and in some other verses like these there is a mention of a specific number of angels being sent down. It wouldn't make sense if we would say that 3000 principles or energies or forces were sent down.

 

Conversation of Angels with God on creation of Human Being

 

And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."

(Surah 2, Ayat 30)

This ayat clearly shows that Angels are conscious beings who can think otherwise how would they have been able to ask a question? You can see that their question is pretty logical...they saw the creation of Prophet Adam(as) and were able to judge that the element of desire will enable man to cause corruption and shed blood...their question implies that they were also aware of the fact that a higher position must not be given to someone who is mischievous that's why they said "while we praise and sanctify you"...so we can see that they have common sense and they are able to think upon information presented in front of them...but if we were to consider angels some kind of forces or energies or principles then how can we attribute to them the "consciousness" which is characteristic of a living being?

[tendersoul]

Thank you friend @eThErEal for your input.

Let me ask you a simple question, according to concepts of raining in Islam, Hazrat Mikhail (s.a.) is an archangel responsible for raining and thunder, now scientifically it is proved that sun heated the water, vapors form cloud, wind blow the clouds and a process causes the clouds to rain and thunder. Where is the Hazrat Mikhail (s.a.) comes in picture ? Even when clouds are going to rain in Istambul and (for example.) it below above Iran, using Cloud Seeding technique, Iran can forced the clouds to rain there, instead of Istambul.

I am not saying that I don't believe in Hazrat Mikhail (s.a.), I am only trying to understand the Islamic concepts in terms of our very limited knowledge. If we stop thinking in these terms, we will left behind others and also these thing could distract a lot of people in future.

About "Nur", it is not something like the light we see, the light we can see consits of photons. Photons can be blocked, captured, break up, so on. This light takes time to travel from one place to another. See here, "Nur" word was used by Allah to let us understand things, not in literally meanings. I listened to a lecture a while ago, which describes a hadeeth that Nur of Allah by definition is something which doesnot composed of anything, which can not be divided or collected. Also the Nur of Allah is different form the Nur of Angles.

Thank you friend @Tendersoul for you useful input. I will keep in mind to contact you further in this regards :)

Salam,

I understand your question better now.

What you are exactly talking about is -amr- امر - commands.

Lets say angels are employees of Allah.

And since Allah is aware of all the things in his store room ( which is in the forth sky )from the smallest dust of sand in the desert to the one rain drop that comes down from the sky.

These commands are brought down by angels as a rain drop .

So even if we do cloud seeding if Allah does not will, it will not happen.

But if that one drop of rain or even a flood of rain is part of our رزق sustainance whether thru cloud seeding or any other artificial way it will happen because it was already in the knowledge of Allah and part of our قدر measure .

So for example It was part of the measure of Istanbul that 1,000,000 drops of rain fall on the city because it was already part of the sustainance of the city .

Allah gives the command on Leylatul qadr . Than these commands are brought down by angels from the forth sky.

I will give you another example . Some couple use the method of IVF for having a child ,

Now this is not in the normal way. But since it was in the couples مقدر measure and رزق sustainance the angels still have to implement and bring down the command of that baby to be able to even take form in the first place .

The only difference will be the couples will have an added سبب / cause like the extra medical procedure / instrument or method the doctors used to help forming this baby.

That instrument too was in the fourth sky which is called Alam eli or Alam Amr , where all the causes of the medical instrument are there also.

So the commands of all the material of the medical instrument come down to our sky and becomes assembled.

Just like a factory where all the compotents of a product are separate and one employee brings all the screws and needed material from the ware house , the other employee opens the package ( the command being implemented ) .

And it keeps passing thru different assembly lines and different compartments and comes as a full product in the last assembly line , and then the full product is delivered and distributed to the stores.

So take the employees in the factory as angels implementing the grand design of the the CEO.

Now during the process one of the end user suggests a different form of that product , if the CEO approves of the end user suggestion , in that product the end user with the approval of The CEO gets the product he suggested,

Having said all this ,You will be surprised that this topic is very well explained in the Azan / Salat file in your inbox .

Than you will realize how important is Salat !!!

And Salat is : being a witness and observer to the Implementation of Allahs command in exsistance !

So the prophet in his meraj saw all the assembly line of the factory of the universe , plus the seven skies , plus all the factory employees implementing Allah's command.

Witnessing all this Azemat of creation he automatically bend down towards his knees ! Imagine witnessing the whole if universe at work ! It is mind blowing...Hence the prophet got the Salat as a gift.

So anyone who prayers sincerely and if Allah wills he should either experience the whole journey of ascension again or is atleast shown like what prophet Ibrahim experienced....

Wasalam

[Fatima6177]

Interesting topic. I don't have much knowledge about it.

[Faithfully999]

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim  In The Name Of Allaah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.  As salaamu alaykum  The Peace Be Upon You.  

 

 

Several years ago, a little before a close relative transitioned, two angel's visited my home and talked with the soul, as I witnessed it. I do not know what was said during the meeting with the two angel's as I could not hear the conversation. I did not notice the wings spoken of, as each of the angel's wore a hooded type garment; which, by the way, enabled me to see them clearly.  Wassalaam. Faithfully999