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In the Name of God بسم الله

[LAWS]Is It Haram To Join The U.s Army/military?

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Defence is obligatory, yes. Islamically and logically. Defence is actually obligatory upon everyone, man and woman.   Now... Tell me how many wars was the US involved in which were defensive.       Be

Which of the following US wars do you consider :Halal ? SOUTH DAKOTA  1890 (-?)  Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee. ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected. CHILE 1891

Thankfully haram and halal aren't based on your personal beliefs, Wahdat. Regardless of the desirability of living in the West, it is obviously not halal to join an army that mostly kills innocent Mus

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Any kind of deed and action that result in strengthening and reinforcement of oppressors in their oppression is forbidden and Haram . There are many Ahadith that warn us about this question.

 

Imam Khamenai said: helping oppressor in their oppression is  forbidden and Haram ,for example an oppressor is going to heat a person others help him in this oppression, but helping oppressors in other cases like what is permissible or highly recommended in Islam ( helping needy people for example) is not Haram ,otherwise the wheel of life stop from moving.

 
 
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و عن رسول الله صلی الله علیه و آله:

من مشی مع ظالم فقد اجرم

اذا کان يوم القيامة نادى مناد اين الظلمه و اعوان الظلمه و من لاق لهم داة او ربط لهم کيسا او مد لهم مدة ظلم فاحشروهم معهم

امام الصادق علیه السلام:

العامل بالظلم والمعين له والراضى به شرکاء ثلاثة

The Prophet of Islam (saw):

Whoever walks with an oppressor, has committed a crime.

On the day of judgment, there will be call: "where are the oppressors, and those who help them, and those who made their ink, and those who fastened a bag for them or a rope for them? Put them all together.

Imam al-Sadiq (as) is reported to have said:

The oppressor, the one helping him and the one pleased with their action, are three partners.

Edited by mesbah
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I want to join the U.S Army, I am a female. Also joining the army has many different jobs, it's not only fighting or being in war. It has many other jobs.

I am going to school for law enforcement as well.

It is not always haram, but at this time it is. Also, hijab is wajib and you can't observe hijab in a military work uniform.

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Hypothetically speaking....in the interest of aligning with the argument that joining the US military is haram. Lets assume that there are 10 neighborhoods in a city. The strongest neighborhood (US) controls 2 neighborhoods (EU, Australia) completely and makes war on the rest of the 7 neighborhoods...stealing their food and bringing it back to US, EU, and Australia while the rest go hungry. If joining the war to steal the food is haram, then shouldnt the food that sustains those 3 neighborhoods be haram simply because it is stolen? In summa, if joining the US military is haram so should be living/eating from the Western societies.

 

 

My personal belief is that if one is enjoying all hte privileges of the American led societies (West), then joining its military should not be haram.


The computers we use, phones we connect with nears and dears, internet, medical equipments, planes we take to travel around, cars we use and and and and are all components of the Western system as is its military.

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world.

 From a more Islamic point of view, what do you say about the Imams living under rulers they considered to be usurpers, while benefitting from state bursaries? Should they have either left the Islamic state, or supported the rulers?

 

It could be argued, the rulership did not belong to the usurpers, it was not their right to being with. The Caliphate was the right of the Imams. And if the Imams  received financial hand outs from the government, the treasury was the collection from Muslims and it did not solely belong to  the oppressors.

Edited by power
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It could be argued, the rulership did not belong to the usurpers, it was not their right to being with. The Caliphate was the right of the Imams. And if the Imams  received financial hand outs from the government, the treasury was the collection from Muslims and it did not solely belong to  the oppressors.

The money would mostly be from the conquests of other countries that were (presumably) illegitimate due to not being led by a masoom. The Imams also benefitted by acquiring slaves taken from those conquests.

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It's a fact that by living in the "west" you are a combatant of the STATE nation.

Whenever you see the gold fringe around the flag, it signifies the military flag, look at the inauguration ceremony of Obama.

Next time you are in courts look at the flags in the courtroom, it's all military flags.

Your votes elect leaders who are your commander-in-chief to execute the orders and beat the war drums.

It is your taxes that keep the trillion dollar war machine alive and thus inviting new recruits due to it's massive expansion.

You are the ones allowing this sister to have the desire to join the US army because it offers such benefits that a believing shia sister today sees fit to offer her allegiance to the very machine that will try to seek and destroy our beloved :Al-Hujjat atf.

And yet you all tell this sister it is haram while you all  play a  part in this military machine knowingly or unknowingly.

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Thankfully haram and halal aren't based on your personal beliefs, Wahdat. Regardless of the desirability of living in the West, it is obviously not halal to join an army that mostly kills innocent Muslim civilians, and is used as a tool of oppression all around the world.

 

Why do these armies kill innocent Muslim civilians? Just for the heck of it or for resources? And what do they do with those resources if not build their societies? If those resources are haram because they come at the cost of innocent lives then shouldnt the use of those resources be haram as well?

 

I know you consider yourself to be ubber religious guy....use that thing that God give you once in a while- BRAIN.

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Why do these armies kill innocent Muslim civilians? Just for the heck of it or for resources? And what do they do with those resources if not build their societies? If those resources are haram because they come at the cost of innocent lives then shouldnt the use of those resources be haram as well?

 

I know you consider yourself to be ubber religious guy....use that thing that God give you once in a while- BRAIN.

The irony of you telling anyone to use their brain...

And no, to answer your question about the use of resources. I have the example of the Imams, who do actually get to tell us what is haram and halal, but as usual you choose to avoid replying to anything you find inconvenient.

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The money would mostly be from the conquests of other countries that were (presumably) illegitimate due to not being led by a masoom. The Imams also benefitted by acquiring slaves taken from those conquests.

 

Imam Ali (as) acted as an able and selfless advisor to the first three caliphs, considering, they had took fadak from his wife, and caliphate from him, was he wrong in doing so?

 

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The irony of you telling anyone to use their brain...

And no, to answer your question about the use of resources. I have the example of the Imams, who do actually get to tell us what is haram and halal, but as usual you choose to avoid replying to anything you find inconvenient.

 

Imams had slaves and concubines...how many slaves do you have? Did Imams live in Muslim lands or in Byzantine or Rome?

 

We are not talking about 1400 years ago. We are talking about today. I see the emergence of a new sect in Islam- Cafeteria Muslims....pick and choose whatever suits them. Whatever courier they have is justified as halal...everything else is haram.

By paying taxes, taking part in other societal aspects of the West you are very much part of this system that you declare as haram.

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Imams had slaves and concubines...how many slaves do you have? Did Imams live in Muslim lands or in Byzantine or Rome?

 

We are not talking about 1400 years ago. We are talking about today. I see the emergence of a new sect in Islam- Cafeteria Muslims....pick and choose whatever suits them. Whatever courier they have is justified as halal...everything else is haram.

By paying taxes, taking part in other societal aspects of the West you are very much part of this system that you declare as haram.

I'm the cafeteria Muslim? You're the one constantly going on about how the Prophet lived over 1400 years ago, so his example no longer applies. You also don't seem to think many principles in the Qur'an apply to living in the modern West (like enjoining the good and forbidding the evil). It therefore takes some nerve for you to turn around and calls us the cafeteria Muslims.

The fact is that the example I gave of the Imams still applies to the situation we at discussing here. Namely, that you don't need to consider a government legitimate in order to live under them or to benefit from them.

You need to lead to actually discuss the issues, rather than simply repeating the same thing over and over, while insulting your opponents, and ignoring the substance of their arguments.

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Salam

My personal belief is that if one is enjoying all hte privileges of the American led societies (West), then joining its military should not be haram.


The computers we use, phones we connect with nears and dears, internet, medical equipments, planes we take to travel around, cars we use and and and and are all components of the Western system as is its military.

If that's the case, then what do you say about the Muslims who currently live in Israel making up 10% to 15% of Israel's entire population and who have lived in the land before the Zionist occupation in 1948? Do you think that it's ok for them to join the Israeli military even while their own military whom they could potentially join kills thousands of their brothers just north and south from them almost every couple of years(This kind of reminds me of how the US, Canadian and British forces illegally fight the Shi'a mujahideen in Iraq, Syria and Afghnistan who only fight to defend the honour of their own people)? Not only that, but do you also think it's "hypocritical" for them to oppose their military and government merely because they are enjoying the privileges given to them by the Zionist state, almost like how Muslims live in the west?

 

Also in addition to the above, I beleive that the US foreign policy and military aggression against foreign countries(i.e Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Native Americans, Japan and so on and on...) is in essence no different than the Zionist illegal occupation of Palestine. It's oppressive nature is just incarnated in a different form than that of the Zionist one but still in essence is the same.

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Just don't do it.

 

Even if you have no sense of ta'asob... you should at least look after your own personal safety. Do you honestly think the US military is a good place for mozzzzzlems to be?

 

I had a friend. His father is Libyan, mother is Irish-American. He was born and raised in the states. He was a US Marine. He got into a fight with a skinhead in his platoon and ended up getting a serious head injury which scored him a pension of sorts. But although he was a very sharp dude and very good at talking politics, strategy, etc... He had bouts of memory loss. Like for example: it could have been the year 2009, and he would write some date from 2005 on his checks at the bank. He would forget things like that.

 

Anyway, the point is: why to lower your dignity? Non-Muslims in the US military can't stand it, what makes you think you would have anything short of a dreadful time?

 

And this is all separate from the discussion of oppression and all that, which adds a whole nother element. 

 

I was talking with a friend of mine, a hybrid dude: half Lebanese half Afghani. He said he was trying to encourage his brother to sign up for the Air Force. I was like: [Edited Out] is you crazy? I can't believe how casually some people bring it up. It's not a good idea for any reason.

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^ very logical baradar. Dont do so for common sense purposes or due to your conscience. like for example dont go to a hood in the middle of the night while wearing gold jewelry because it simply is not safe. but then you have people like haydar husayn coming and saying 'dont go to the hood cause its haram'...i find this absurd.

 

Salam

If that's the case, then what do you say about the Muslims who currently live in Israel making up 10% to 15% of Israel's entire population and who have lived in the land before the Zionist occupation in 1948? Do you think that it's ok for them to join the Israeli military even while their own military whom they could potentially join kills thousands of their brothers just north and south from them almost every couple of years(This kind of reminds me of how the US, Canadian and British forces illegally fight the Shi'a mujahideen in Iraq, Syria and Afghnistan who only fight to defend the honour of their own people)? Not only that, but do you also think it's "hypocritical" for them to oppose their military and government merely because they are enjoying the privileges given to them by the Zionist state, almost like how Muslims live in the west?

 

Also in addition to the above, I beleive that the US foreign policy and military aggression against foreign countries(i.e Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Native Americans, Japan and so on and on...) is in essence no different than the Zionist illegal occupation of Palestine. It's oppressive nature is just incarnated in a different form than that of the Zionist one but still in essence is the same.

 

Israeli Arabs have no choice to go elsewhere as their lands are occupied. Muslim migrants who willfully leave their lands do always have a choice of going back to their homelands and take part in every aspect of their societies. What I find hypocritical is that whatever suits these migrants is justified as halal and whatever falls outside that fold is haram. I say if its haram then everything should be haram.

Muslims in America or the UK have same rights as the rest. This is not the case for Israeli Arabs who live under an apartheid system.

I'm the cafeteria Muslim? You're the one constantly going on about how the Prophet lived over 1400 years ago, so his example no longer applies. You also don't seem to think many principles in the Qur'an apply to living in the modern West (like enjoining the good and forbidding the evil). It therefore takes some nerve for you to turn around and calls us the cafeteria Muslims.

The fact is that the example I gave of the Imams still applies to the situation we at discussing here. Namely, that you don't need to consider a government legitimate in order to live under them or to benefit from them.

You need to lead to actually discuss the issues, rather than simply repeating the same thing over and over, while insulting your opponents, and ignoring the substance of their arguments.

 

Your examples would have applied if Imams lived in Byzantine or Rome. And yes anyone who condemns usurpation of a system based on Islam and then are very much part of the system whereby they use it to live well and raise family are cafeteria Muslims.

 

Like i said, you simply have to use your brain- if US kills innocent civilians to steal their resources then those resources are haram. and any use of that resource is also haram. if you want halal. go back to any of the 54 Islamic countries whose armies dont kill for resources.


In regards to my opposition to enjoining good and forbidding evil- So our Ulema today for not having concubines and slaves are also cafeteria Muslims? times have changed.

I am opposed to use of that concept because thats the core of takfiri ideology where they justify all their crimes based on it. I say we live in a world where we have so much to fix within ourselves that should leave no time to enforce good or forbid evil for others. And usually those who miss this point are often folks that have not spent time to improve their own selves and hence their evil actions.

Edited by Wahdat
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Wahdat is becoming one of those 'roshanfekr' people, a trend among Muslim intellectuals in the past two or three centuries,

Some of the common characteristics of these people are: excessive self criticism, negative thinking about whatever happens in Muslim lands, positive thinking about whatever happens in western lands, everyone is a hypocrite expect for these very knowledgeable intellectuals, these intellectuals accept no responsibility about anything since all they know is critical thinking which only leads to further disappointment about everything, ... and so forth

It is a style, a tradition in itself, roshanfekri, enlightened thinking, which only has helped western colonizers and further devastation in Muslim lands.

Edited by mesbah
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Wahdat is becoming one of those 'roshanfekr' people, a trend among Muslim intellectuals in the past two or three centuries,

Some of the common characteristics of these people are: excessive self criticism, negative thinking about whatever happens in Muslim lands, positive thinking about whatever happens in western lands, everyone is a hypocrite expect for these very knowledgeable intellectuals, these intellectuals accept no responsibility about anything since all they know is critical thinking which only leads to further disappointment about everything, ... and so forth

It is a style, a tradition in itself, roshanfekri, enlightened thinking, which only has helped western colonizers and further devastation in Muslim lands.

 

as opposed to blame everything on Zionists? Yes, absolutely.

If the mayor does not clean the garbage in a city...it automatically is a Zionist conspiracy.

If a leader does not do his job....or anything negative in our societies....Zionist fault.

First I hate the term roshanfikr. Some of the most wonderful people I have seen among Muslims are our elders who did not have any formal education. The most roshan Muslim that I met in Iran was this old cab driver who had studied till grade 5. His wisdom humbled me and forever changed my views. And the dumbest guy I have met was this Afghan guy that has his PhD from Rand. He makes something ridiculous $48K/month. Our 'educated' sect are the darkest within our societies.

That said- the way I see is that 95% of our problem in Islamic countries is our own fault. Its not the Zionist fault when men in Egypt sexually assault females in public places. Its not the Zionist fault when Arabs mistreat South Asian migrants. Its not the Zionist fault when govt officials dont do a darn thing without bribe. Its not the Zioinist fault when a woman cannot walk alone in Afghanistan. I hate it when i hear in Afg 'oh we have a 5k years culture and our wonderful deen' and then see the jahilya realities defining every fabric of this 'wonderful' society. 

In summa- if we improve ourselves- foreigners wont be able to do a damn thing....IRI is somewhat of a good example here.

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و عن رسول الله صلی الله علیه و آله:

من مشی مع ظالم فقد اجرم

اذا کان يوم القيامة نادى مناد اين الظلمه و اعوان الظلمه و من لاق لهم داة او ربط لهم کيسا او مد لهم مدة ظلم فاحشروهم معهم

امام الصادق علیه السلام:

العامل بالظلم والمعين له والراضى به شرکاء ثلاثة

The Prophet of Islam (saw):

Whoever walks with an oppressor, has committed a crime.

On the day of judgment, there will be call: "where are the oppressors, and those who help them, and those who made their ink, and those who fastened a bag for them or a rope for them? Put them all together.

Imam al-Sadiq (as) is reported to have said:

The oppressor, the one helping him and the one pleased with their action, are three partners.

@Wahadat

here is what the prophet and Imam Sadiq says, what do you want more?

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In my opinion you can join, because Us and its allies are openly supporting you in iraq ! and supporting iran too in its interests, and supporting iraq and iran means they are supporting bashar al tyrant too. And also they are supporting Ksa too with their allies on other side ! So they can post you anywere, so its better not to join, but to understand.

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The money would mostly be from the conquests of other countries that were (presumably) illegitimate due to not being led by a masoom. The Imams also benefitted by acquiring slaves taken from those conquests.

 

 

The whole earth belongs to the Imam, so all the slaves and war booty are his anyways. He can use it however he wishes.

Edited by Al-Afasy
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Doesn't USA have compulsory military service? Can you refuse to do it?

Not at this time. Even in times of the draft, a man can refuse on the grounds of being a "conscientious objector", though he might be forced to serve anyway if he can't prove that he is a pacifist.

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