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Shia Sunni Difference: Lineage Vs Character

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Timur

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Four years ago I opened a book in Barns and Nobles book store, the book was about Shia and Sunni written by Westerners, a simple guide to the difference between Shia and Sunni. Do not recall the actual name of the book but I do remember they have it in Barns and Nobles religion section. The first chapter mentioned the main difference between Shia and Sunni is regarding who can be leader after Prophet of Islam.

According to Shias only and only direct decedents of the Prophet are allowed to lead while Sunnies believe any one can be the leader regardless of lineage. The root of the difference was lineage vs non lineage when it comes to power. I prefer democracy and this would completely be against democracy.

 

I thought to myself that if some one very well qualified was running for leadership against  some one who was not well qualified but belonged to the right tribe then the lineage over rules qualification. I have actually looked back and seen this happen in real life. One of our Imams from the 1950s was a real play boy. He happened to marry a famous alcoholic movie start from Hollywood. Now he belonged to the Ismaili faith  but he was a Sayed and an Imam which means he was selected by God. While Shias only believe in 12 Imams but if the 12th imam had not disappeared before he had children today we would still see Imams.

 

Any how, to me it seems it is not fair, we could have great people to lead rather Shia religion would not have allowed it unless he was Sayed ( Belonging to Quriesh tribe) I maybe wrong about Qureish can not recall which tribe the prophet belonged to.

 

Please brothers and sisters help because I hope I am wrong. Did Shias initially say only direct decedents of the Prophet were allowed to rule and lead?

 

 

 

 

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Four years ago I opened a book in Barns and Nobles book store, the book was about Shia and Sunni written by Westerners, a simple guide to the difference between Shia and Sunni. Do not recall the actual name of the book but I do remember they have it in Barns and Nobles religion section. The first chapter mentioned the main difference between Shia and Sunni is regarding who can be leader after Prophet of Islam.

According to Shias only and only direct decedents of the Prophet are allowed to lead while Sunnies believe any one can be the leader regardless of lineage. The root of the difference was lineage vs non lineage when it comes to power. I prefer democracy and this would completely be against democracy.

 

I thought to myself that if some one very well qualified was running for leadership against  some one who was not well qualified but belonged to the right tribe then the lineage over rules qualification. I have actually looked back and seen this happen in real life. One of our Imams from the 1950s was a real play boy. He happened to marry a famous alcoholic movie start from Hollywood. Now he belonged to the Ismaili faith  but he was a Sayed and an Imam which means he was selected by God. While Shias only believe in 12 Imams but if the 12th imam had not disappeared before he had children today we would still see Imams.

 

Any how, to me it seems it is not fair, we could have great people to lead rather Shia religion would not have allowed it unless he was Sayed ( Belonging to Quriesh tribe) I maybe wrong about Qureish can not recall which tribe the prophet belonged to.

 

Please brothers and sisters help because I hope I am wrong. Did Shias initially say only direct decedents of the Prophet were allowed to rule and lead?

 

You seem quite confused about many things, but you should do some reading, where do you get this idea that Sunni leaders were democratically elected, can you give a few examples.

 

The agha khanis are not muslims, please don't refer to their charlatan leader as 'our imam'

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Were you raised as an Agha Khani Ismaili?

 


Any how, to me it seems it is not fair, we could have great people to lead rather Shia religion would not have allowed it unless he was Sayed ( Belonging to Quriesh tribe) I maybe wrong about Qureish can not recall which tribe the prophet belonged to.

 

Please brothers and sisters help because I hope I am wrong. Did Shias initially say only direct decedents of the Prophet were allowed to rule and lead?

This belief is not necessarily restricted to Shi'asim only though. Orthodox Sunnis likewise belief that the prophet(saw) ordained the Khilafah to only be held by the Quraysh and you can examine their view on this in details where they explain it from their own sources. Not only that, but they believe that the Mahdi being the 12th of these Khulafah must not only be a descendant from the prophet but restrict his lineage to go back to the prophet only through the lineage of Imam al-Hassan(as). Based on your same standard of judging what is "fair" and what isn't, shouldn't their belief on the Mahdi being restricted to a certain lineage be unfair as well according to you? 

 

 

Please brothers and sisters help because I hope I am wrong. Did Shias initially say only direct decedents of the Prophet were allowed to rule and lead?

Initially, no Shi'a or anyone else decided from their own opinion on who should be allowed to hold authority of the Khilafah and who shouldn't. It was Allah(swt) that chose the rightly guided Khulafah of the prophet(saw) to be 12 men from the descendants of the prophet. This is analogically  similarly as how He gave the prophethood to the descendants of Ibrahim(as) through his sons Ishaq(as) and Isma'il(as), as explained in the Quran.

 

It is critical for you to understand and take into consideration that in Shi'a Twelver Imami thought(unlike in Sunnism),  the Khilafah of the prophet(saw) was restricted to Imam Ali(as) and the other 11 A'immah not because these 12 men were merely related to the prophet. Instead, it's due to the spiritual station that they held - where their superiority over the rest of the people of their time for possessing the highest level of piety and faith in Allah was the determining factor that Allah used to chose them out of the rest of His creation for them to hold authority of the Khilafah after the prophet(saw). In other words, since Allah has knowledge of the unseen, He judged that these 12 men, before He created them - would eventually hold the highest spiritual station over the rest of His creation  and based on that, He predestined them to be born as descendants to the prophet in order so that they hold the authority of the prophet's Khilafah. If you can read Arabic, I recommend that you read al-Masa'il al-'Akbariyia by Shaykh al-Mufeed where he touches on this briefly. You will understand it better from him.

Edited by Al-Hassan
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It wasn't so much about lineage as being appointed. Yes, each Imam was related to the previous one, but it didn't have to be that way. They were just immersed in right behavior and right leadership from a young age, and were therefore most qualified to lead.

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Now you are in disagreement with God.

 

Allah never made a democratic decision to create Adam

 

Allah never made a democratic decision on who to appoint as a Prophet

 

Allah never made a democratic decision about whether Mohammed should be a prophet.

 

So why the successor of a Prophet?

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It seems you are more known with apologetics against Shia Islam then the arguments of Shia Islam itself,

Not just simple questions but questions regarding a lot of Shia concepts where you already thought about it in depth.

I don't trust you.

But for the sake of argument I will participate in this debate. 

Was the Prophet s.a.w. democratically chosen?

Edited by Skanderbeg
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It seems you are more known with apologetics against Shia Islam then the arguments of Shia Islam itself,

Not just simple questions but questions regarding a lot of Shia concepts where you already thought about it in depth.

I don't trust you.

But for the sake of argument I will participate in this debate. 

Was the Prophet s.a.w. democratically chosen?

Skanderbeg, 
 
Your answer is argue mental and it does not answer my question. So are you saying that Shia religion is in fact based on Lineage? Like kingdoms where fathers would pass the seat to son?

Now you are in disagreement with God.

 

Allah never made a democratic decision to create Adam

 

Allah never made a democratic decision on who to appoint as a Prophet

 

Allah never made a democratic decision about whether Mohammed should be a prophet.

 

So why the successor of a Prophet?

 
Khalilullah you prove that this is a faith based sect of religion which does not have to make sense. Sort of  if told water is black and not clear one must not question it. Again this is not argument, not competition, this answer of yours neither helps me nor yourself. You are dodging the question which shows you are not interested to figure out the truth like me. I should not not waste your time any more, if you can help with answers please help otherwise saying that Allah appointed the successors of the Prophet is just faith based because one will ask Where has Allah said this? In the Quran? Show please.You are saying that only children of Hazrat Ali to this day and forever  shall be only allowed to lead. Thank you, another negative point against Shia sect.
Edited by Timur
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Were you raised as an Agha Khani Ismaili?

 

This belief is not necessarily restricted to Shi'asim only though. Orthodox Sunnis likewise belief that the prophet(saw) ordained the Khilafah to only be held by the Quraysh and you can examine their view on this in details where they explain it from their own sources. Not only that, but they believe that the Mahdi being the 12th of these Khulafah must not only be a descendant from the prophet but restrict his lineage to go back to the prophet only through the lineage of Imam al-Hassan(as). Based on your same standard of judging what is "fair" and what isn't, shouldn't their belief on the Mahdi being restricted to a certain lineage be unfair as well according to you? 

 

Initially, no Shi'a or anyone else decided from their own opinion on who should be allowed to hold authority of the Khilafah and who shouldn't. It was Allah(swt) that chose the rightly guided Khulafah of the prophet(saw) to be 12 men from the descendants of the prophet. This is analogically  similarly as how He gave the prophethood to the descendants of Ibrahim(as) through his sons Ishaq(as) and Isma'il(as), as explained in the Quran.

 

It is critical for you to understand and take into consideration that in Shi'a Twelver Imami thought(unlike in Sunnism),  the Khilafah of the prophet(saw) was restricted to Imam Ali(as) and the other 11 A'immah not because these 12 men were merely related to the prophet. Instead, it's due to the spiritual station that they held - where their superiority over the rest of the people of their time for possessing the highest level of piety and faith in Allah was the determining factor that Allah used to chose them out of the rest of His creation for them to hold authority of the Khilafah after the prophet(saw). In other words, since Allah has knowledge of the unseen, He judged that these 12 men, before He created them - would eventually hold the highest spiritual station over the rest of His creation  and based on that, He predestined them to be born as descendants to the prophet in order so that they hold the authority of the prophet's Khilafah. If you can read Arabic, I recommend that you read al-Masa'il al-'Akbariyia by Shaykh al-Mufeed where he touches on this briefly. You will understand it better from him.

 
Al Hassan, 
I was raised 12 Imami,
 
I appreciate your time and detailed answer but  unfortunately not convinced. What you are saying is purely faith, believe it that this has nothing to do with lineage you mention  "11 A'immah not because these 12 men were merely related to the prophet. Instead, it's due to the spiritual station that they held" This is possible but chances are extremely low. Sorry brother this does not convince any one or else why would it be stated as the main difference between Shias and Sunnies in the Islam guid written for Non Muslims. Chances are that the 12 Imams were Imams not because they were better than every one else but because they were father and children. We can see that now in our Ismaili brothers that still it is passed down to children after 1400 years. By now I can see the trend that yes after 1400 years Imams are all decedent from Hazrat Ali, from father to son and as I mentioned at least one of the Imam from some years back married an alcoholic movie star from Hollywood which would put a question to the faith. According to Shias all imams are appointed by Allah, and I know that Ismaili sect of Shia was the main dominant sect and Jafarry was not the main  sect until later, people converted from Ismaili to Jaffary much after the 12th imam and if Mahdi had children before he disappeared chances were that there would be Imams of Jaffari sect also. According to Shias Imams are above average human. So would Agha Khan be more than any average human? Does he have super powers? The answer is no hence, it proves it is just faith based which means believe even if it does not make sense. Brothers why do you do this to yourself? Why follow something blindly? What benefit do you get? Are you Sayed or do you belong to the Qureish tribe if so I would understand your reason other wise I will not understand why a grown up man not care about knowing the truth and follow what ever their parents told him to follow.
Edited by Timur
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(salam)

 

You seem quite confused about many things, but you should do some reading, where do you get this idea that Sunni leaders were democratically elected, can you give a few examples.

 

The agha khanis are not muslims, please don't refer to their charlatan leader as 'our imam'

 

Why being so radical regarding Agha Khanis ? They have shahada don't they ?

 

@ Timur, while I consider them Muslims, they just show that Imamate is indeed not a father-to-son thing, it goes way further than that.

Edited by realizm
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Four years ago I opened a book in Barns and Nobles book store, the book was about Shia and Sunni written by Westerners, a simple guide to the difference between Shia and Sunni. Do not recall the actual name of the book but I do remember they have it in Barns and Nobles religion section. The first chapter mentioned the main difference between Shia and Sunni is regarding who can be leader after Prophet of Islam.

According to Shias only and only direct decedents of the Prophet are allowed to lead while Sunnies believe any one can be the leader regardless of lineage. The root of the difference was lineage vs non lineage when it comes to power. I prefer democracy and this would completely be against democracy.

 

I thought to myself that if some one very well qualified was running for leadership against  some one who was not well qualified but belonged to the right tribe then the lineage over rules qualification. I have actually looked back and seen this happen in real life. One of our Imams from the 1950s was a real play boy. He happened to marry a famous alcoholic movie start from Hollywood. Now he belonged to the Ismaili faith  but he was a Sayed and an Imam which means he was selected by God. While Shias only believe in 12 Imams but if the 12th imam had not disappeared before he had children today we would still see Imams.

 

Any how, to me it seems it is not fair, we could have great people to lead rather Shia religion would not have allowed it unless he was Sayed ( Belonging to Quriesh tribe) I maybe wrong about Qureish can not recall which tribe the prophet belonged to.

 

Please brothers and sisters help because I hope I am wrong. Did Shias initially say only direct decedents of the Prophet were allowed to rule and lead?

 

so much for the hard core Shia lol. On that other post you spent a long time trying to prove your credentials and now its obvious you are very confused about Agha Khanis lol

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so much for the hard core Shia lol. On that other post you spent a long time trying to prove your credentials and now its obvious you are very confused about Agha Khanis lol

Your answer is not helpful brother.

 

If you can help please let me know I am wrong and why? Otherwise I must wake up.

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OK first let me say that you've got a few things wrong which makes this thread VERY confusing.

 

First of all, the family that the Prophet belonged to was Banu Hashim which is a family within the Quraish tribe. Banu Umayyah also belong to the Quraish tribe.

 

Secondly, know that the majority of Shias in the past were Zaidi not Ismaeli or twelver.

 

Now back to your question:

 

There's a really a simple answer to your question: Shia Islam takes into account both lineage AND character because the eleven Imams were undoubtedly the best people of their times in addition to being descendants of the Prophet.

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(salam)

 

 

Why being so radical regarding Agha Khanis ? They have shahada don't they ?

 

@ Timur, while I consider them Muslims, they just show that Imamate is indeed not a father-to-son thing, it goes way further than that.

 

I'm not sure about the shahada, I'll take your word for it, but their abandoning of prayer and other wajibat take them out of the fold of Islam, having a dajjal as their imam is just the cherry on the cake.

 

There have been a few threads exposing their beliefs.

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I'm not sure about the shahada, I'll take your word for it, but their abandoning of prayer and other wajibat take them out of the fold of Islam, having a dajjal as their imam is just the cherry on the cake.

 

There have been a few threads exposing their beliefs.

Having a Dajjal as their imam? Elaborate please ..

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You say you was raised as a 12er but your words betray your origins. I would have called you a liar but the moderators don't like my straight talking 

What is important to you the origin ? Again to me it is not important which religion and sect I was born into but rather which sect makes more sense. This is no longer about just a sect I would not mind it so much, since there are wars going on and people die every day over Shia Sunni I want to understand why and what I can do to help. For that reason I rather side with the right over wrong. Sunnis do not accept Shias as Muslims, Shia twelve rs do not accept Ismailies as Muslims and so on. It is not nice or wise for twelve-rs to have such view regarding the Ismailies when in fact looking into our own sect shows we are also out side the circle of sense.

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What is important to you the origin ? Again to me it is not important which religion and sect I was born into but rather which sect makes more sense. This is no longer about just a sect I would not mind it so much, since there are wars going on and people die every day over Shia Sunni I want to understand why and what I can do to help. For that reason I rather side with the right over wrong. Sunnis do not accept Shias as Muslims, Shia twelve rs do not accept Ismailies as Muslims and so on. It is not nice or wise for twelve-rs to have such view regarding the Ismailies when in fact looking into our own sect shows we are also out side the circle of sense.

 

* Sorry, that is my personal belief, I don't speak for the rest.

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Shia twelve rs do not accept Ismailies as Muslims and so on. It is not nice or wise for twelve-rs to have such view regarding the Ismailies when in fact looking into our own sect shows we are also out side the circle of sense.

Not all Ismailies were non-Muslims. We're talking about Agha Khani Ismaelis. There have been many decent Ismaeli Muslims throughout history. Some Fatimids for instance.

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What is important to you the origin ? Again to me it is not important which religion and sect I was born into but rather which sect makes more sense. This is no longer about just a sect I would not mind it so much, since there are wars going on and people die every day over Shia Sunni I want to understand why and what I can do to help. For that reason I rather side with the right over wrong. Sunnis do not accept Shias as Muslims, Shia twelve rs do not accept Ismailies as Muslims and so on. It is not nice or wise for twelve-rs to have such view regarding the Ismailies when in fact looking into our own sect shows we are also out side the circle of sense.

 

I don't care about your origin or in fact what your current belief is. All I am doing is pointing out the inconsistency of your statements in this thread and previous ones.

 

Yours is just a very clumsy attempt to start a debate based on 'your own lack of knowledge'. Since your lack of knowledge is out of step with what you claim you are, its makes me questions as to why you would want to be 'creative' about about your origins and current belief

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I don't care about your origin or in fact what your current belief is. All I am doing is pointing out the inconsistency of your statements in this thread and previous ones.

 

Yours is just a very clumsy attempt to start a debate based on 'your own lack of knowledge'. Since your lack of knowledge is out of step with what you claim you are, its makes me questions as to why you would want to be 'creative' about about your origins and current belief

I am not interested in debate brother. I appreciate the time you take to answer my questions.  I have questions and I am interested in your answers. So far it seems that the book is correct, the book that describes the main difference between Shia and Sunni being who is/was allowed to rule after the death of the Prophet. According to Shias no one is allowed to rule except for direct decedents while the Sunnis do not limit only to the direct children of the Prophet. That is what I am trying to understand from this forum. I am trying to search for the truth.

Edited by Timur
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Four years ago I opened a book in Barns and Nobles book store, the book was about Shia and Sunni written by Westerners, a simple guide to the difference between Shia and Sunni. Do not recall the actual name of the book but I do remember they have it in Barns and Nobles religion section. The first chapter mentioned the main difference between Shia and Sunni is regarding who can be leader after Prophet of Islam.

According to Shias only and only direct decedents of the Prophet are allowed to lead while Sunnies believe any one can be the leader regardless of lineage. The root of the difference was lineage vs non lineage when it comes to power. I prefer democracy and this would completely be against democracy.

 

I thought to myself that if some one very well qualified was running for leadership against  some one who was not well qualified but belonged to the right tribe then the lineage over rules qualification. I have actually looked back and seen this happen in real life. One of our Imams from the 1950s was a real play boy. He happened to marry a famous alcoholic movie start from Hollywood. Now he belonged to the Ismaili faith  but he was a Sayed and an Imam which means he was selected by God. While Shias only believe in 12 Imams but if the 12th imam had not disappeared before he had children today we would still see Imams.

 

Any how, to me it seems it is not fair, we could have great people to lead rather Shia religion would not have allowed it unless he was Sayed ( Belonging to Quriesh tribe) I maybe wrong about Qureish can not recall which tribe the prophet belonged to.

 

Please brothers and sisters help because I hope I am wrong. Did Shias initially say only direct decedents of the Prophet were allowed to rule and lead?

 

The imams are not merely "leaders," but protectors of Islam and Muhammad's pbuh Sunnah; The imams must be distinct from the average man, in so that they may carry on the message of Islam, and ensure that said message is not misinterpreted/lost.  The 12 imams were, according to the Shiite thought, divinely appointed, in that Allah (swt) selected these men as caretakers of Islam after the eventual death of the prophet pbuh. The issue with you not "liking" the idea of Shiite immate does not have any relation to Islam; this is a secular idea.  Divine law is greater than said democracy particularly in regard to such an *important* decision.  Democracy is not without flaws.  Democracy can be twisted with prospects of finances, power, manipulation, and pure foul play.  Democracy can merely be the man with the most assets. Divine law is distinct and unblemished.  Within the Qur'an, divine successorship or "immate" can be seen.  Prophets are all chosen by Allah swt, as well as the leaders, caliphs, or imams that are chosen during and after the time of these prophets.  

 

The idea of a democratically elected successor contradicts the concept of the twelve successors (Hadith of the Twelve Successors):

 

"The Messenger of Allah said: This religion shall survive till the Hour is established, and there are twelve caliphs (ruling) upon you. All of them will be from Quraysh" (many, many, many Sunni and Shiite recordings of this hadith)

 

The issue really is there has, and never will be 12 identifiable successors in the Sunni school of thought.  Ironically, most of them were not "democratically" elected, rather were monarchies and tyrants.  

 

Comparing Sayyeds to the 12 Imams is doing a great injustice to the Imams. 

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I am not interested in debate brother. I appreciate the time you take to answer my questions.  I have questions and I am interested in your answers. So far it seems that the book is correct, the book that describes the main difference between Shia and Sunni being who is/was allowed to rule after the death of the Prophet. According to Shias no one is allowed to rule except for direct decedents while the Sunnis do not limit only to the direct children of the Prophet. That is what I am trying to understand from this forum. I am trying to search for the truth.

It's not about direct descendance or no direct descendance. It's about Divine Appointment and Prophetic Blessing.

As Ibrahim a.s. was blessed with imams in his offspring so was Muhammad s.a.w.

 

Edited by Skanderbeg
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I am not interested in debate brother. I appreciate the time you take to answer my questions.  I have questions and I am interested in your answers. So far it seems that the book is correct, the book that describes the main difference between Shia and Sunni being who is/was allowed to rule after the death of the Prophet. According to Shias no one is allowed to rule except for direct decedents while the Sunnis do not limit only to the direct children of the Prophet. That is what I am trying to understand from this forum. I am trying to search for the truth.

 

Questions based on honesty are far better received and answered rather then posing as something you are not in order to raise questions.

 

If you had said I am an Ismaili or Sunni or Quaranist or Muslim origin or 12er Shia but totally ignorant about my faith, I would have taken the time to answer your questions based on historical precedents and Islamic theology.

 

In fact you betray your lack knowledge of Sunni Islam as well. The 'Sunni Mahdi' is also a direct descendant. So whether you are Sunni or Shia it all comes back to the blood of the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp).  

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Since you read some random book in Barnes and Nobles whose name you don't even remember, maybe you should read a good book written by a sincere individual. Read Then I Was Guided. Oh, then get yourself a copy of After the Prophet by Lesley Hazleton.

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As salam o alaikum,

What is the proof that these imams are sinless or choosen by Allah, is it written in quran.

And how can we say that based on the lineage he is right or wrong. Is it not like hindu, person belonging to brahaman family are considered as noble.

How can you consider imam as law maker when quran say ""Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114"

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Yes, I agree.

It is because quran says ""O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Prophet and those charged with authority among you. Therefore, if there is a difference of opinion among you in any matter, refer it back to Allah and His Prophet1, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day." (4:59)"

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Yes, I agree.

It is because quran says ""O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Prophet and those charged with authority among you. Therefore, if there is a difference of opinion among you in any matter, refer it back to Allah and His Prophet1, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day." (4:59)"

 Salam,

 

 

What a beautiful Aya, you quoted. Thank you very much.

 

Now lets look at this aya from a non shia/sunni biased view, as the goal is to understand what Allah has said not what we want to think we Allah means.

 

All muslims agree the Commads/ Authority ( امر) belongs to Allah, and to whom he will to give his Authority to Under his supervision or fully.

 

تَنَزَّلُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ فِيهَا بِإِذْنِ رَبِّهِم مِّن كُلِّ أَمْرٍ ﴿القدر: ٤﴾

 

(In it descend the angels and the Spirit, by the leave of their Lord, with every command. (97: 4

 

 

So, when this command descends with the angels and spirit, the first one given this authority is to the prophet as per the aya you mentioned. That is why we have to obey the prophet.

 

After the prophets death, Allah should also chose some one to implement his authority, as ever layla tul Qadr, his commands are descendin, and should be given to someone chosen by Allah to implement. And Allah or even any proper human being in the right frame of mind will chose to give this authority to who follows his religion in the best of manner and least or not at all contaminated. Because as everyone knows power and authority can corrupt, so it has to be in the most trust worthy hands. Specially as regards to the religion of Allah as it is an Amanah/ trust given unto man kind to implement Allah's command not his own personal whims and fancy.

 

Hence this authority has to be chosen by Allah not by humans and voting system. As you can see now adays what a mess this whole voting system as cause to implement agreements between humans, leave alone religion.

 

 

 

And if you read thru both sunni and shia sources, Ali was the most knowledgeable amongts the companians of Allah, Ali was asked to be a judge byUmar.

 

If you deeply think about a judge. If a judge has to judge based on Islam, it is the most tedious jobs, because one small error in judgement can carry huge consequences in the eyes of Allah.

 

So whoever personally choses to take charge of this authority based on a vote system, not Allah's command either has to be very sure about himself or not in his proper sense of mind.

 

 

So the " Ulel Amr" as per the aya you kindly shared is in regards to who Allah chose directly.

 

 

 

This is the shia point of view.

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As salam o alaikum,

What is the proof that these imams are sinless or choosen by Allah, is it written in quran.

And how can we say that based on the lineage he is right or wrong. Is it not like hindu, person belonging to brahaman family are considered as noble.

How can you consider imam as law maker when quran say ""Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114"

 

 

Salam Again,

 

And yet another beautiful aya. 

 

Now if you look at the two verses you posted.

 

The first verse you posted says ""Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114"

 

Pay close attention to " he revealed you this book in fully detailed"

 

 

Now the details :

 

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Prophet and those charged with authority among you." (4:59)" 

 

 

Pay close attention to those charged with authority "

 

Who is charging the authority here? Any one other than Allah?

 

Or he told the people go do a voting and the implemenation of my Divine religion which is ascending with the angels and spirit, can be given to anyone you choose amongst yourselves?

 

 

 

Hence an Imam is not a law maker. The prophet was an Imam/lleader of his time. The prophet did not make up laws on his whims and fancies.

He was given the authority to implement the laws given by Allah, or if Allah approved, anything in the prophet it also became a law.

 

Like orginally the Salat was two Rakat. the third and fourth were added by the prophet which was approved by Allah.

 

Hence the Imams are not law makers , they implement the laws of the religion which was completed and perfected by the Last prophet.

 

 

Even argument sake if we agree , The shia imams were not appointed By Allah.

 

Wouldn't common sense tell us to follow the most just and knowledgeable?

 

No one can deny that Ali was the most knowledgebale and Just.

 

So If I have to choose a president argument sake, If I am a rational person, I would want my President to be the most knowledgeable and just person.

 

 

Hope this helps you understand the shia point of view.

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