كيف يعذبك الله وانت لا تشعر

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

Edited July 26, 2015 by Ibn Al-Shahid

[Laayla]

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum brother.

The sheikh was saying that God won't give the sinner the opportunity to worship him and that is the worst type of punishment you can get. Did I summerize it well?

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

On 7/26/2015 at 4:21 PM, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum brother.

The sheikh was saying that God won't give the sinner the opportunity to worship him and that is the worst type of punishment you can get. Did I summerize it well?

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله

I believe when he said "worst punishment" it wasn't from the hadith, it was him simply saying it from his point of view. But yes, it definitely isn't a mild punishment for Allah to take away His remembrance from your mouth.

[Ali_Hussain]

On 7/27/2015 at 0:59 AM, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله

I believe when he said "worst punishment" it wasn't from the hadith, it was him simply saying it from his point of view. But yes, it definitely isn't a mild punishment for Allah to take away His remembrance from your mouth.

assalam 'alaykum,

Sorry, I might be wrong, but the shaykh didn't specify what type of remembrance would be taken away, did he? There are two types of remembrance, of the lips and of the heart, I would argue that being deprived of the remembrance of the heart is a far greater punishment than being deprived of the remembrance of the tongue.

Anyone who lives amongst Somalis or North Africans know how much the remembrance of Allah is on their tongues, it isn't a bad thing, I'm not necessarily trying to knock it, however, in all honesty, what kind of remembrance is it when you just throw Allah into every sentence, no matter the topic:

"Walllahi she is fit" "Wallahi I'm gonna kill you" "Wallahi you're a such and such" "Subhanallah that is good weed" "Wallahi if she goes near my man again I'm gonna murk her" etc etc etc

What kind of dhikr is that? In my opinion, it would be a blessing to have that kind of dhikr removed from your tongue.

I don't mean to negative, in all fairness, I don't know how these people behave in private, but their language and actions in public don't indicate that they are really pious in private. This is the way they talk that's all, it's like English speakers saying "Oh my God" "Jesus" - they are expressions.

[Abu'l Khattab]

On 7/29/2015 at 5:26 AM, Ali_Hussain said:

assalam 'alaykum,

Sorry, I might be wrong, but the shaykh didn't specify what type of remembrance would be taken away, did he? There are two types of remembrance, of the lips and of the heart, I would argue that being deprived of the remembrance of the heart is a far greater punishment than being deprived of the remembrance of the tongue.

Anyone who lives amongst Somalis or North Africans know how much the remembrance of Allah is on their tongues, it isn't a bad thing, I'm not necessarily trying to knock it, however, in all honesty, what kind of remembrance is it when you just throw Allah into every sentence, no matter the topic:

"Walllahi she is fit" "Wallahi I'm gonna kill you" "Wallahi you're a such and such" "Subhanallah that is good weed" "Wallahi if she goes near my man again I'm gonna murk her" etc etc etc

What kind of dhikr is that? In my opinion, it would be a blessing to have that kind of dhikr removed from your tongue.

I don't mean to negative, in all fairness, I don't know how these people behave in private, but their language and actions in public don't indicate that they are really pious in private. This is the way they talk that's all, it's like English speakers saying "Oh my God" "Jesus" - they are expressions.

What? It's really obvious what the Sheikh meant when he said Allah will make you forget His remembrance. It's not a mere mention of his name, but with full intention too. 

When Somalis etc. say wallah, no one considers what they're doing to be remembrance of Allah, I don't think they even believe that. I don't know where you're getting these interpretations from. 

The first time on this forum that someone brings a Shi'a scholar saying something that you people look for from Sunni preachers, and within 4 comments someone comes and tries to cast doubt in what the Sheikh tried to say, when it was crystal clear from the moment he said it. 

I'm sure if Sufi deviants like Habib Mu'awiyah al-Jifri or Hamza Yusuf mentioned the same thing this Sheikh did, such doubt would not be cast. 

(wasalam) 

[Al-Englisi]

Bismillah

On 7/29/2015 at 5:26 AM, Ali_Hussain said:

assalam 'alaykum,

Sorry, I might be wrong, but the shaykh didn't specify what type of remembrance would be taken away, did he? There are two types of remembrance, of the lips and of the heart, I would argue that being deprived of the remembrance of the heart is a far greater punishment than being deprived of the remembrance of the tongue.

Wasalam Alaikum, 

The narration itself seems to indicate the remembrance of the heart, if we want to make such categorizations, since 'sweetness(/pleasure)' in terms of 'remembrance'  ('dhikr') can only truly be associated with the heart. It doesn't seem to make sense for the narration to be talking about remembrance of the tongue alone, although i do not completely deny the possibility. We do not usually associate sweetness and pleasure with remembrance of the tongue, although that is something discussed in Arabic rhetoric. 

On 7/29/2015 at 3:08 PM, Al-Afasy said:

What? It's really obvious what the Sheikh meant when he said Allah will make you forget His remembrance. It's not a mere mention of his name, but with full intention too. 

When Somalis etc. say wallah, no one considers what they're doing to be remembrance of Allah, I don't think they even believe that. I don't know where you're getting these interpretations from. 

The first time on this forum that someone brings a Shi'a scholar saying something that you people look for from Sunni preachers, and within 4 comments someone comes and tries to cast doubt in what the Sheikh tried to say, when it was crystal clear from the moment he said it. 

I'm sure if Sufi deviants like Habib Mu'awiyah al-Jifri or Hamza Yusuf mentioned the same thing this Sheikh did, such doubt would not be cast. 

(wasalam)

Firstly you need to calm down, the misunderstanding of our believing brothers/sisters does not warrant such a harsh response, you're not responding to an enemy.  

Also, none of the brothers or sisters here enjoy listening to Sunni schoalrs because they are Sunni, and neither do they 'look' for anything from the Sunni speakers, rather they 'find' what they are looking for in the talks of Sunni speakers. There is a huge difference. 

Doubt wasn't cast, it was just  misunderstanding. 

[Ali_Hussain]

On 7/29/2015 at 3:08 PM, Al-Afasy said:

What? It's really obvious what the Sheikh meant when he said Allah will make you forget His remembrance. It's not a mere mention of his name, but with full intention too. 

When Somalis etc. say wallah, no one considers what they're doing to be remembrance of Allah, I don't think they even believe that. I don't know where you're getting these interpretations from. 

The first time on this forum that someone brings a Shi'a scholar saying something that you people look for from Sunni preachers, and within 4 comments someone comes and tries to cast doubt in what the Sheikh tried to say, when it was crystal clear from the moment he said it. 

I'm sure if Sufi deviants like Habib Mu'awiyah al-Jifri or Hamza Yusuf mentioned the same thing this Sheikh did, such doubt would not be cast. 

(wasalam)

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, I was responding to the brother who said that the shaykh was referring to remembrance of the mouth, and giving my reasons why it might mean something other than that, coupled with a little rant. My Arabic is poor, that is why I started my post with a question.

Based on my understanding, he wasn't only referring the remembrance of the mouth.

[Chaotic Muslem]

i think dhikr here means saying" astaghfirullah" or " subhanaallah walk hamdullilah wa la ilaha ill Allah wa allahu akbar" or reciting Quran or Du'a or prayer 

also, keeping Allah in the mind when doing deeds, something that a sinner may lack.

but since the hadith mentions halawa then i'd assume that the person no longer find it rewarding with pleasure to mention Allah by tongue in form of tasbeeh and hamd and takbeer.

[Abu'l Khattab]

On 7/29/2015 at 4:22 PM, Al-Englisi said:

Firstly you need to calm down, the misunderstanding of our believing brothers/sisters does not warrant such a harsh response, you're not responding to an enemy.  

Also, none of the brothers or sisters here enjoy listening to Sunni schoalrs because they are Sunni, and neither do they 'look' for anything from the Sunni speakers, rather they 'find' what they are looking for in the talks of Sunni speakers. There is a huge difference. 

Doubt wasn't cast, it was just  misunderstanding. 

It is completely your choice if you want to play 'ignorance is bliss' to the obvious habits of some ShiaChatters in their self-hating criticism and skepticism of our scholarship vs. their acceptance of Nawasib preachers, but that doesn't mean I have to abide by that.

Secondly, you can't tell me who's an enemy and who's not, because that's not your judgement to take. The narrations are very clear (and harsh, at that) to those who liken themselves to non-Imami circles, you can refer to the second volume of al-Kafi if you doubt that.  

"And do not mix up the truth with the falsehood, nor hide the truth while you know (it)." (2:42)

وَلَا تَلْبِسُوا الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُوا الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ

(wasalam)

[Al-Englisi]

On 7/29/2015 at 6:04 PM, Al-Afasy said:

It is completely your choice if you want to play 'ignorance is bliss' to the obvious habits of some ShiaChatters in their self-hating criticism and skepticism of our scholarship vs. their acceptance of Nawasib preachers, but that doesn't mean I have to abide by that.  

Secondly, you can't tell me who's an enemy and who's not, because that's not your judgement to take. The narrations are very clear (and harsh, at that) to those who liken themselves to non-Imami circles, you can refer to the second volume of al-Kafi if you doubt that.  

"And do not mix up the truth with the falsehood, nor hide the truth while you know (it)." (2:42)

وَلَا تَلْبِسُوا الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُوا الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ

(wasalam)

Not all the members are familiar with Arabic or Persian. This limits who they can listen to for Islamic material. You have to be seriously delusional to think that in the English speaking Shia world we have the same quality speeches on Tawhid or focus on the Quran as we do in the Sunni world. They really can't be blamed for faulting their own scholars and liking what they find in the Sunni scholars, in this regard. Unless you have a list of Shia scholars who they can refer to for quality material on this topic?

Listening to their lectures while being aware of their short-comings and problems is not likening oneself to them. That's quite the fallacious argument. 

[Sumerian]

On 7/29/2015 at 6:04 PM, Abu'l Khattab said:

It is completely your choice if you want to play 'ignorance is bliss' to the obvious habits of some ShiaChatters in their self-hating criticism and skepticism of our scholarship vs. their acceptance of Nawasib preachers, but that doesn't mean I have to abide by that.  

Bump. Gold. 

[Haydar Husayn]

14 hours ago, E.L King said:

Bump. Gold. 

I think you two would get on great.

[Sumerian]

1 hour ago, Haydar Husayn said:

I think you two would get on great.

We actually did. Sadly he isn't around anymore. Didn't agree on everything, but his attitude is admirable.

[Abu'l Khattab]

On 5/6/2017 at 4:09 PM, E.L King said:

We actually did. Sadly he isn't around anymore. Didn't agree on everything, but his attitude is admirable.

The believer does not die. 

[Sumerian]

32 minutes ago, Abu'l Khattab said:

The believer does not die. 

Yooo come back on the chatroom man