Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
do3a2

Desire Penalized Or Punished

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

باسمه تعالى

Salam alaykom

My topic is about homosexual desires.....

ok so you will probably say "oh god not again".....

i know this topic has been widely discussed on this website and eventhough i have read most of the threads dealing with this topic i still feel i should post it and get helpful comments hopefully

i have a friend that has been attracted to girls a few times in her life, i only knew about it recently cuz things happened and she kinda told me herself, yet she does not intend to act according to her desires (frankly now i know why sometimes she gets so depressed and no matter how many times we ask her she never tells) anyway, she told me she feels like their is an imaginary boulder sitting on her chest. I mean lets face it she is a muslim an a muhajjabah and she likes her religion but she is not understanding her desire and where it came from.

I didnt know what to do or what to say, and to top it off she is getting engaged soon not because she fancies the guy but merely because she wants to prove to herself that she can be normal (literally).....

I kinda felt that she is getting married for reasons other than romance, like she wants to commit herself to someone in order to forget what she desires .....

I am just sharing this to hear ur comments and if anyone knows someone with the same experience please don't hesitate. I know there is so little i can do for her anyway but homosexuality is something i do not understand myself so my question is: Will Alla (swt) punish u for carrying such desires even if a person is determined not to fullfill them?

thanks for reading

salam alaykm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally dont think God will punish anyone just for having homosexual desires - but thats just my two cents. 

 

I was friends with a homosexual guy back in my teenage years - one of the closest sweetest friends i've ever had. when he opened up to his parents, they tried forcing him to get married to a girl. he couldnt accept it and fled from the country and refused to speak to his parents again. the misery he felt was unimaginable. i still remember him saying that if he marries the girl hell have to stay drunk his whole life just to accept her, so i dont think getting hooked up with someone from the opposite gender actually works for homosexuals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally dont think God will punish anyone just for having homosexual desires - but thats just my two cents. 

 

I was friends with a homosexual guy back in my teenage years - one of the closest sweetest friends i've ever had. when he opened up to his parents, they tried forcing him to get married to a girl. he couldnt accept it and fled from the country and refused to speak to his parents again. the misery he felt was unimaginable. i still remember him saying that if he marries the girl hell have to stay drunk his whole life just to accept her, so i dont think getting hooked up with someone from the opposite gender actually works for homosexuals.

 

The way I see it is that it must be like forcing a straight person to marry someone from the same sex...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as you do not act upon desires which are regarded as impermissible acts then you haven't committed a sin.

 

Me wanting/liking a nice watch isn't punishable in itself. Only me taking it from the store in an impermissible fashion (i.e., stealing) is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salaam

 

I think that you have to "corner" the desire... observe yourself living life. As in, if you met yourself what would you think of this person.

 

Step outside of your body and observe "oh, I'm feeling this way."

 

It helps separate you from the feelings, whatever they are. Whether it's feeling anxiety, panicky, desiring steak, desiring whatever. I hope that makes sense.

 

So with homo feelings, think about the desire for sex. "Oh I'm feeling this way again." It helps separate you from the feeling.

 

That's how people can overcome any desire, whether it's drugs, or any addiction.

 

Tell yourself it's an "automatically negative thought." It's just there. Like a poster on the wall. Or decoration. It's there. You aren't fixated on the lamp in the corner. Similarly, you don't have to be fixated on the feeling that's there. It's there. It's in your eyesight. Just don't give it much thought.

 

Or better yet, think about Allah watching you.

 

One of the way to stop masturbating, is to think  that if other people are in the room, you wouldn't masturbate, no matter how strong the desire. The embarrassment outweighs the pleasure. Transfer the same thought to "Allah is always present. I don't want Allah swt to see me doing that, for me to be embarrassed in front of Allah."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, the evidence seems to suggest that homosexuality among women is much less fixed than it appears to be with men. There are many, many, examples of lesbians who clearly admitted to doing it out of choice, or who are attracted to both males and females. So it could be that this is simply a phase. Also keep in mind that simply finding yourself attracted to a member of the same sex doesn't make someone a homosexual. For all we know it's probably quite normal, but is suppressed in most people due to societal norms. However, because it doesn't get talked about, when someone finds themselves having these feelings, it can cause a lot of confusion, and possibly lead to feelings of depression.

I think it would be good for your friend to get married, but marrying just anybody might make things worse. It would be better for her marry someone she feels relatively compatible with, just like everyone else should try to do.

Has your friend never found herself attracted to a man? If she has, then the matter should be fairly simple to resolve. If she hasn't, then it could be more complicated, but still perfectly possible. The most common scenarios are usually that a 'homosexual' finds themselves attracted to both sexes, but more towards their own sex than the opposite. But then their case after getting married isn't much different from someone who finds other people more attractive than the person they married, which I doubt is that uncommon. So it's important not to over idealise marriage either. An important aspect of it is as a religious duty, and for the procreation of children. Focusing in these aspects may also help.

Edited by Haydar Husayn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally dont think God will punish anyone just for having homosexual desires - but thats just my two cents. 

 

I was friends with a homosexual guy back in my teenage years - one of the closest sweetest friends i've ever had. when he opened up to his parents, they tried forcing him to get married to a girl. he couldnt accept it and fled from the country and refused to speak to his parents again. the misery he felt was unimaginable. i still remember him saying that if he marries the girl hell have to stay drunk his whole life just to accept her, so i dont think getting hooked up with someone from the opposite gender actually works for homosexuals.

 

This isnt always the case. There are many examples of men who were attracted to other men and were able to marry women and have a normal marriage. I dont know the brother myself, but I have a friend who knows a guy personally who was homosexual and converted to Islam (Shi'ism more specifically) and no longer has sexual desires for or is attracted to other men.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isnt always the case. There are many examples of men who were attracted to other men and were able to marry women and have a normal marriage. I dont know the brother myself, but I have a friend who knows a guy personally who was homosexual and converted to Islam (Shi'ism more specifically) and no longer has sexual desires for or is attracted to other men.

Such cases tend to get marginalised for political reasons, because it would open a whole can of worms to admit that such people exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haydar husayn you have a point.... will it help if i tell you she never felt attracted to a guy in her life, i know because i asked her. Eventhough she is sociable and amiable and many men were attracted to her yet she did not feel the same way, back then i thought its probably his fault..... after what she told me i cannot say the same thing now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isnt always the case. There are many examples of men who were attracted to other men and were able to marry women and have a normal marriage. I dont know the brother myself, but I have a friend who knows a guy personally who was homosexual and converted to Islam (Shi'ism more specifically) and no longer has sexual desires for or is attracted to other men.

yes, there may exist such cases - i am sure they do. but i dont think they are what you'd call a majority, right? i've known a lot of homosexuals (both males and females) and all of them couldnt imagine being with the opposite sex. but there's always the possibility so i wont deny it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haydar husayn you have a point.... will it help if i tell you she never felt attracted to a guy in her life, i know because i asked her. Eventhough she is sociable and amiable and many men were attracted to her yet she did not feel the same way, back then i thought its probably his fault..... after what she told me i cannot say the same thing now

Well, that obviously makes things harder. It could be however that the reason she doesn't feel herself attracted to men is because of these feelings she has for women. There is much more to marriage than simple physical attraction in any case, which tends to fade over time. I don't know how attracted to each other the typical married couple in their 50's or 60's are, for example. And there are many cases of people saying they rarely have physical intimacy with their spouse even in their late 30's or 40's. You also have many women who have married men simply for money or power, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to marry for religion. When the children come, then that will in any case make things much easier.

I'm hesitant to say she should get married now though, because it seems a little unfair on the husband to be married to someone who feels incapable of being attracted to them. I think she should reflect on these matters, pray to Allah, and then when she has a clear frame of mind, look for a potential husband. Insha'Allah she will find someone with good deen that she has some attraction to (even if just a little), and then she could marry him in good conscience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that obviously makes things harder. It could be however that the reason she doesn't feel herself attracted to men is because of these feelings she has for women. There is much more to marriage than simple physical attraction in any case, which tends to fade over time. I don't know how attracted to each other the typical married couple in their 50's or 60's are, for example. And there are many cases of people saying they rarely have physical intimacy with their spouse even in their late 30's or 40's. You also have many women who have married men simply for money or power, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to marry for religion. When the children come, then that will in any case make things much easier.

I'm hesitant to say she should get married now though, because it seems a little unfair on the husband to be married to someone who feels incapable of being attracted to them. I think she should reflect on these matters, pray to Allah, and then when she has a clear frame of mind, look for a potential husband. Insha'Allah she will find someone with good deen that she has some attraction to (even if just a little), and then she could marry him in good conscience.

But is having children really always the answer? im not criticizing you - just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But is having children really always the answer? im not criticizing you - just a thought.

Most people want children, even people who live in homosexual relationships. It's definitely one of the main sources of pleasure, and in many marriages is perhaps the main source of pleasure. Obviously having children when in an abusive relationship can make someone feel trapped, and is no doubt something extremely difficult, but that's why I'm suggesting that a husband should be chosen carefully.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salam

 

i spoke to a member on here the other day who faces similar situations, and he said that if he marries, he'd probably go for somebody with the same problem on the opposite sex, so they have this in common, and can work on it together. Like, somebody who doesn't expect or need something, which the other can't deliver. Sounds pretty fair to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most people want children, even people who live in homosexual relationships. It's definitely one of the main sources of pleasure, and in many marriages is perhaps the main source of pleasure. Obviously having children when in an abusive relationship can make someone feel trapped, and is no doubt something extremely difficult, but that's why I'm suggesting that a husband should be chosen carefully.

Perhaps yes. I made the mistake of thinking about the children aspect from my own abusive relationship's perspective. 

 

yeah most homosexuals i have known and still know are desperate for children. but with the developments available these days and the options available (surrogacy, IVF, sperm donations etc.) I'm wondering if anyone would take the plunge into a straight relationship just to be able to have kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah most homosexuals i have known and still know are desperate for children. but with the developments available these days and the options available (surrogacy, IVF, sperm donations etc.) I'm wondering if anyone would take the plunge into a straight relationship just to be able to have kids.

It's not the only reason to get married. The main reason should be religious, but if you wants secular reasons, then I would say that it is important for a child to have both a mother and a father (again, I'm not talking about exceptions involving abusive parents). Despite the propaganda put out today, anyone who has ever interacted with a child who grew up without a mother or a father can tell that they've missed that, and will often try to find a substitute. Most people also would like to have a child who is their own, from their own DNA, and that they have given birth to.

From an Islamic point of view, being in a homosexual relationship, or having children by someone who isn't your husband, are not options, so there is no point in a Muslim even considering them. All that will do is increase the confusion. They need to be ruled out as firmly as the option of marrying a sibling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

 

I'm not sure, but I'm coming to the view,  that somethings genetically we are prone to certain spiritual type of uncleanness and attacks depending on who we are as well as environmental factors play in.

 

I don't know but perhaps these desires are from magic of Sayateen of Jinn and humans, so much, it really is from other then herself, and it's not simply a battle within.

 

I'm not sure about this, but it maybe the nature of a lot things. For example, schizophrenia in twins. If one has it, the other has 50% chance of getting it. It's not inevitable though. There is some personal reaction to it, the person himself, it depends on him, if it will trigger. 

 

I suggest for her to try to learn Du'a Sabaasab: http://www.duas.org/sabaasab.htm

 

I think there is unseen world, and sometimes, magic on the hearts can even cause a man to separate from his wife,  I don't know how these knots work, how they take route in the spiritual world, how they are blown upon...but I think it's a reality.

 

It's a reality when I see to the extent that certain recitations of Quran are locked to the extent 99.99+% of humanity cannot recite, even if it's the clearer and more logical one, while others are irrational, there is something going on.

 

There is indeed something going on the hearts. 

 

It can be this a spiritual attack, a magic, a sorcery, a whispering that takes root, and needs to be cut off by Divine light, power, honor, and majesty, needs to be cut off by the deadly sword of God.

 

And this is not just something to be recited but felt, something to take the being, and done. 

 

I don't know, I'm not sure.  I'm just suggesting it as a possibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam alaykm

thanks everyone.

Personally i believe marriage is for spiritual reasons and it comes in many forms as in gaining physical security or children....

i guess i opened up to a possibility that human hearts have many lumps and blackholes and that everyone has his own bala'a..... i kinda admire her though because she is willing to face herself no matter what

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haydar husayn you have a point.... will it help if i tell you she never felt attracted to a guy in her life, i know because i asked her. Eventhough she is sociable and amiable and many men were attracted to her yet she did not feel the same way, back then i thought its probably his fault..... after what she told me i cannot say the same thing now

This is going to be a rather hilarious post:

 

There are two types of physically attractive men to women: the rugged manly man and the adorable pretty boy.

 

Honestly, I am a "pretty boy," like the male equivalent of an adorable puppy. I have made females' hearts melt when I blink really fast.

I have really long, curly eye lashes. Even though it's a unisex trait, women always tell me they are so jealous of them. And one female told me that i have "dainty lips."

 

I talked to a few lesbians. I approached one, in hopes of mutah (to get her to abandon her wicked ways), and she suggested I see a psychologist.

 

So I refined my approach:

 

I recall the last one I talked to: I thought to myself that I can help her avoid upsetting Allah SWT if I try to do mutah with her. So I gave her  warm smile and blinked really slowly, thinking that perhaps my features (that women want for themselves) would appeal to her.

I asked her if I'm ugly. She said no. This is hard to explain, but I tried blinking my eye lashes, like the betty boop cartoon in hopes of tapping into her pleasure of "prettiness" that would make her really attracted to females, like the :50 mark here:

 

https://youtu.be/rhtIBTEJfxU?t=50s

 

She blushed! And smiled. And looked away, as if trying to prevent herself from being wooed by such a gorgeous man. She said "look at you." I tried to butter her up by saying you're really pretty. However, she ultimately declined. I even tried guilt tripping her (she was trying to get donations for some kind of environmental charity on campus) "do it for the trees."

 

There's got to be a formula for success. I'm working on it. I'm getting close. Trial & error. I'm just one guy trying to help save lesbians, trying to help humanity. I got  lot of weight on my shoulders. The pain of a thug runs deep.

 

Ma salaama

Edited by thuglife

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mmmm sad topic,

 

 

I recently found out from a classmate that he is gay.. is there any advice any of you could give that would work? He is shia-muslim.. but he was raised in the west. Out of shock i don't even know how to help him.  i'm very upset to know he is gay.. he is a potential doctor. God what is happening to the youth.!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam, you should treat him like you would treat anyone else who is fasiq (one who openly does haram and doesn't care)

You should try your best to limit your exposure to this person. If you have to interact with them, it should be very formal, business like and task oriented (the focus should be completing a particular task, not on 'getting to know them').

If they ask you for advice regarding religion, you should give them good advice, but you should be careful what 

you say around them so they don't go to a third party to twist what you say and use it against you. 

 

These people act this way in the West because homosexuality is viewed, by the mainstream, as just another 'life style choice'.

They worked hard for many years to get people to change their opinions on this. 

Like I said before, If muslims worked this hard doing dawa and tabliqh, most of the West would be muslim by now. 

But that's another thread

 

Anyway, they are just another type of fasiq, amoung many types, and should be dealt with according to the advice of Our Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Imams(a.s) 

Edited by Abu Hadi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mmmm sad topic,

 

 

I recently found out from a classmate that he is gay.. is there any advice any of you could give that would work? He is shia-muslim.. but he was raised in the west. Out of shock i don't even know how to help him.  i'm very upset to know he is gay.. he is a potential doctor. God what is happening to the youth.!!!!!!!

Read what I wrote earlier about separating oneself from the desires.

 

 

Like any other irrational behavior, tell him to think about it. Like a crackhead who is overjoyed by the drug, try to point out all the negative effects and not just the pleasure from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mmmm sad topic,

 

 

I recently found out from a classmate that he is gay.. is there any advice any of you could give that would work? He is shia-muslim.. but he was raised in the west. Out of shock i don't even know how to help him.  i'm very upset to know he is gay.. he is a potential doctor. God what is happening to the youth.!!!!!!!

Salam sis

 

Please do not think yourself to be the kind of person who guides those who go astray.

 

Do what you are required to do and what you must do; stay away from the corrupt or else you yourself will be ruined.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 For all we know it's probably quite normal, but is suppressed in most people due to societal norms. 

Wow I'm surprised nobody commented on this. We need to realize that these types of thoughts, no matter how innocent, easily finds its way into the subconscious of others. That's a very slippery slope and poisonous line of thought. The reason I say this is because this is precisely how tolerance to foolish desires starts and develops. I don't mean any offense by this and just felt it was necessary to point out something that apparently most people subconsciously agree with, and that they should be aware of every thought that crosses their mind. This doesn't only apply to the topic at hand but applies to anything of forbidden nature. If I'm the only one who thinks this way then so be it I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow I'm surprised nobody commented on this. We need to realize that these types of thoughts, no matter how innocent, easily finds its way into the subconscious of others. That's a very slippery slope and poisonous line of thought. The reason I say this is because this is precisely how tolerance to foolish desires starts and develops. I don't mean any offense by this and just felt it was necessary to point out something that apparently most people subconsciously agree with, and that they should be aware of every thought that crosses their mind. This doesn't only apply to the topic at hand but applies to anything of forbidden nature. If I'm the only one who thinks this way then so be it I guess.

 

I don't really see the problem with what I said. There are many things that are forbidden, but people experience temptation towards.

 

If you look at some civilisations in the past, homosexuality was quite normal, at least between older men and young boys. Those men were usually married, and the boys usually ended up getting married later (for example in Ancient Greece). Even more recently, in the 1940's, a huge proportion of Americans were shown to have had some sort of homosexual experience (let alone feelings) in their life at some point, and these were mostly not people who ended up as homosexuals.

 

So clearly there are other factors at play here than simply genetics or upbrining. To me, it's actually better to acknowledge that these are feelings that can happen to 'normal' people so that someone who experiences it doesn't get overly confused and distressed (which is what happens to most Muslims who experience same-sex attraction), and they can then deal with it with a clearer head. The idea isn't to be tolerant of homosexual behaviour, but to be more understanding of people who have those feelings. That is the only way we have any chance of helping them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...