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Allah Chosen Prophets & Leaders With Consultation.

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2 hours ago, Malikuddin said:

But Muawiya is still considered to be not only a muslim but a sahabi as well. According to the argument that caused the Ridda Wars he should be declared an apostate and be killed so why this double standard?

At that time Imam Ali was the chosen caliph via consultation. So it was his job to do what you are saying. But Imam did not declare him an apostate. Its not double standard, we are following Imam Ali.

2 hours ago, Malikuddin said:

Point is my dear sunni brother that the caliphacy of Abu Bakr was not something binding as it was a spontaneous action by him and Umar and a third to hurry to the Hall of Saqifah. However, he was not elected by Allah.

Imam Ali was also elected by people as 4th caliph. That was also not by Allah. Later Imam Hassan was also chosed by people not by Allah. After this Imam Hussain was niether chosed by people not by Allah. If you think they and remaining nine others were chosen by Allah then show me Allah's word for each and every Imam?

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37 minutes ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

I have already shown you the verses you asked. WHich are in accordance with the reality, with prophetic narrations and with letter 6 as well. Unlike your claims for which you have shown no proof yet, you are following only conjecture.

I have mentioned 15 examples from quran that are against the man made caliphate principles that occurred at saqifa or afterwards. I have mentioned in OP that has forced you to respond for it There was no shura conducted for the selection of prophets leaders caliphs or imams just the order of Allah who made them chosen represenatives,

Open your eyes brother, unless  you like to keep them closed it is your choice.

Edited by skyweb1987

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51 minutes ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

Then why are you interfering when matter was dicided by Allah swt to be conducted via consultation. Both prophetic narrations and history confirm this. Unlike your claims. 

After blaming the prophet saww for non complying the verse 4:58, you are going to blame Allah swt that why he permitted such  thing that happened at saqifa?

So you mean the people of early nations became apostate or misguided then it was by the permission of Allah swt?

No certainly not every soul is responsible of his deeds or misdeeds it is Allah swt who is the better judge of affairs and he has kept the day of judgement and the wrong doers will be compensated through chastisement and believers will be rewarded.

you are just neglecting the verses quoted in my posts about the right of Allah swt alone to choose the prophets, imams , leaders or caliphs fro the guidance of the peole..

How many prophets have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many leaders have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many caliphs  have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many imams have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

If are truthful then please quote the example from the verses of quran as asked above.

Edited by skyweb1987

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15 minutes ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

Imam Ali was also elected by people as 4th caliph. That was also not by Allah. Later Imam Hassan was also chosed by people not by Allah.

:) Ignorance at its peak. What about the ayah e wilayat (5:55)? What about ulil amr? Allah commanding to obey them but forgot to introduce them (na'uzobillah).

What about the saying of Prophet at Zul'ashira and at Ghadir e Khum about Imam Ali? Does people nominated him as bab e madinatul ilm? Does people nominated his name for being called "kull e emaan"?

Who gave the name to Imam Hassan? What was the origin of that name? Who introduced him as Imam? Who introduced him as prince of the youth of jannah? 

Do you think all this happen by consultation? What sort of blindness is that you are comparing these blessed personalities with the ones who are proved disobedients, liars, usurpers etc?

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31 minutes ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

Its not against any verse of Quran. Its itself in Quran mentioned as a quality of believers. Thus they chosed caliphs from themselves via consultation. Imam Ali and Imam Hassan were also part of this process and also became caliphs via the same. This is well known reality.

You say caliphate is affair of man but the quran says that Allah swt chooses the caliphs.

:وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً

And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, (2:30)

يَا دَاوُودُ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاكَ خَلِيفَةً فِي الْأَرْضِ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَ النَّاسِ بِالْحَقِّ وَلَا تَتَّبِعِ الْهَوَىٰ فَيُضِلَّكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَضِلُّونَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ شَدِيدٌ بِمَا نَسُوا يَوْمَ الْحِسَابِ

o Dawood! surely We have made you a ruler in the land; so judge between men with justice and do not follow desire, lest it should lead you astray from the path of Allah; (as for) those who go astray from the path of Allah, they shall surely have a severe punishment because they forgot the day of reckoning. (38:26)

No consultation no man made chosen only the order by Allah swt

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Indeed, Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded. Q: 16:90

Do you think Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى give leadership of Ummah to people who enjoy His disobedience? Or rather He give them to purified ones (that is defined in 33:33) who only enjoy His obedience?

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4 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Indeed, Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded. Q: 16:90

Do you think Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى give leadership of Ummah to people who enjoy His disobedience? Or rather He give them to purified ones (that is defined in 33:33) who only enjoy His obedience?

No certainly not Allah swt has ultimate responsibility to guide all the people to the truth though the book, prophets, imams and chosen leaders.

Also i like to quote the verse of quran that with only permission of Allah swt one can believe in truth  or not.

فَمَن يُرِدِ اللّهُ أَن يَهْدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلإِسْلاَمِ وَمَن يُرِدْ أَن يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاء كَذَلِكَ يَجْعَلُ اللّهُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ

Therefore (for) whomsoever Allah intends that He would guide him aright, He expands his breast for Islam, and (for) whomsoever He intends that He should cause him to err, He makes his breast strait and narrow as though he were ascending upwards; thus does Allah lay uncleanness on those who do not believe. (6:125)

All kind of uncleanliness is kept away from Ahl albayt .

waslam

Edited by skyweb1987

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57 minutes ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

At that time Imam Ali was the chosen caliph via consultation. So it was his job to do what you are saying. But Imam did not declare him an apostate. Its not double standard, we are following Imam Ali.

Imam Ali was also elected by people as 4th caliph. That was also not by Allah. Later Imam Hassan was also chosed by people not by Allah. After this Imam Hussain was niether chosed by people not by Allah. If you think they and remaining nine others were chosen by Allah then show me Allah's word for each and every Imam?

I knew you would use this argument. But the diffirence is that Imam Ali a.s. was chosen as successor at Ghaddir Khum. This was a Divine appointment.

According to this fact he a.s. has a status higher than caliphate.

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1 hour ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

Imam Ali was also elected by people as 4th caliph. That was also not by Allah. Later Imam Hassan was also chosed by people not by Allah. After this Imam Hussain was niether chosed by people not by Allah. If you think they and remaining nine others were chosen by Allah then show me Allah's word for each and every Imam?

If you accept caliphacy as only authority then the attitude of Muawiyya is the same as those fought in the Ridda Wars.

There is no satisfactory anwser to this problem unless you consider the opinion of Imam Ali a.s. superior over the opinion of Abu Bakr but then again this is not in concordance with sunnism either.

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22 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

Your assumptions have no weightage which menas  that he prophet saww has gone against the verse 4;58: 

إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَأْمُرُكُمْ أَن تُؤَدُّوا الْأَمَانَاتِ إِلَىٰ أَهْلِهَا وَإِذَا حَكَمْتُم بَيْنَ النَّاسِ أَن تَحْكُمُوا بِالْعَدْلِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ نِعِمَّا يَعِظُكُم بِهِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ سَمِيعًا بَصِيرًا

Shakir: Surely Allah commands you to make over trusts to their owners and that when you judge between people you judge with justice; surely Allah admonishes you with what is excellent; surely Allah is Seeing, Hearing. (4:58)

The verse is mentioning that the trusts should be given their rightful owners.

You consider that the prophet saww has left the ummah without a guided rightful caliph / leader / imam after him and made a mistake or violation of the verses and he gave the man made caliphate to ummah that does not exist in quran?

I am sorry you are just blaming the prophet saww that he left the ummah  misguided  just to save the man made caliphate of some  companions at saqifa. 

These are not my assumptions but facts from both shia and sunni history. Verse of consultation explains this verse and the verse after it 4:59.

Verse 28:68 do not mention any amr let alone caliphate, its just your assumption that its about caliphate only. In fact verse is about shirk. So your claim as per this verse is meaningless and is invalid.

Verse of ulil amr 4:59 is consistant with verse of consultation, amruhum shuran baynahum. THus they consulted for their amr of caliphate and chose an ulil amr. Both verses do mention clearly word amr. No any assumptions. This also has support in prophetic ahadith some of which I quoted in my last posts, also in history and in words ofImam Ali,  in letter 6 and in other section of nahjul balagha here http://www.*************/2015/12/12/nahjul-balagha-contradicts-shia-teachings/.

No not at all. Show me where did I say prophet left the ummah misguided? rather I said he left without appointing anyone as a caliph. Same was the condition of Imam Ali when he died. Dont twist and turn my words. I am in fact quoting ahadith of prophet showing you his true teachings. Along with words of Imam Ali legtimizing the shura process by which he also became the caliph. And if Imam ALi considered saqifa and shura process invalid and against Allah's permission (your narrative as per your sources) then it make him a hypocrite by getting the caliphate till his alst breath by the same process and using this as an argument to legitimate himself in front of muawiya as in letter 6 and calling it pleasure of Allah there.

22 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

The words of Imam Ali AS as per letter 28 and in clear terms by sermon 3 are sufficient evidences that he  rejected the early caliphs in his life. whatever you try to twist its meaning its useless for me.

 

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22 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

After blaming the prophet saww for non complying the verse 4:58, you are going to blame Allah swt that why he permitted such  thing that happened at saqifa?

So you mean the people of early nations became apostate or misguided then it was by the permission of Allah swt?

No certainly not every soul is responsible of his deeds or misdeeds it is Allah swt who is the better judge of affairs and he has kept the day of judgement and the wrong doers will be compensated through chastisement and believers will be rewarded.

you are just neglecting the verses quoted in my posts about the right of Allah swt alone to choose the prophets, imams , leaders or caliphs fro the guidance of the peole..

How many prophets have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many leaders have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many caliphs  have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many imams have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

If are truthful then please quote the example from the verses of quran as asked above.

 

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22 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

After blaming the prophet saww for non complying the verse 4:58, you are going to blame Allah swt that why he permitted such  thing that happened at saqifa?

So you mean the people of early nations became apostate or misguided then it was by the permission of Allah swt?

No certainly not every soul is responsible of his deeds or misdeeds it is Allah swt who is the better judge of affairs and he has kept the day of judgement and the wrong doers will be compensated through chastisement and believers will be rewarded.

you are just neglecting the verses quoted in my posts about the right of Allah swt alone to choose the prophets, imams , leaders or caliphs fro the guidance of the peole..

How many prophets have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many leaders have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many caliphs  have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many imams have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

If are truthful then please quote the example from the verses of quran as asked above.

Dont put your ignorance on my shoulders.

I said:

22 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:
22 hours ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

Then why are you interfering when matter was dicided by Allah swt to be conducted via consultation. Both prophetic narrations and history confirm this. Unlike your claims. 

Dont twist my words in order to support your assumptions.

I have already answered you all your questions in my various posts on various threads. Go and read again. I dont want to repeat the same stuff again and again like you.

The entire basis on which your assumption is based 28:68 has been refuted and proved wrong. So everything that follows it is meaningless.

 

Edited by Munzir Ahmed

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22 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

Do you think Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى give leadership of Ummah to people who enjoy His disobedience? Or rather He give them to purified ones (that is defined in 33:33) who only enjoy His obedience?

Certainty Allah swt assign to the rightful owners and representatives in the land who are kept pure according to the verses of quran like 33:33. for the guidance of the people.

We do not follow the imams or leaders who are misguided leading to hell fire like Pharaoh and his companions who were drowned in the sea.

وَمَا كَانَ لِنَفْسٍ أَن تُؤْمِنَ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَيَجْعَلُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ

Shakir

And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah's permission; and He casts uncleanness on those who will not understand. (10:100)

All rijs are kept away from Ahl Albayat by intend of Allah swt (verse 33:33) 

Edited by skyweb1987

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17 minutes ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

Dont twist my words in order to support your assumptions.

The answers to the questions asked in the post in thread is Nil,  So I have Nothing to do with your assumptions, Except saying "Qalu salama"..

Edited by skyweb1987

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On 11/11/2017 at 7:06 PM, Malikuddin said:

Every Imam can become a Caliph but not every Caliph can become an Imam.

Imamate is above Caliphate.

Wrong statement.

Every caliph (ulil amr) is an Imam (leader) but not every Imam (leader) a caliph (ulil amr).

Out of 12 Imams whom you consider divinely appointed, only first two became the caliphs (ulil amr) and that also via consultation process. No one else.

 

21 hours ago, Malikuddin said:

I knew you would use this argument. But the diffirence is that Imam Ali a.s. was chosen as successor at Ghaddir Khum. This was a Divine appointment.

According to this fact he a.s. has a status higher than caliphate.

He was declared as mawla at ghadir not as caliph or ulil amr. No one from sahabah and ahlebayt considered ghadir in meaning of caliphate at that time. There is no evidence on this from letters, sermons and sayings of Imam Ali. Rather he defended the shura system. http://www.*************/2015/12/12/nahjul-balagha-contradicts-shia-teachings/.

 

21 hours ago, Malikuddin said:

If you accept caliphacy as only authority then the attitude of Muawiyya is the same as those fought in the Ridda Wars.

There is no satisfactory anwser to this problem unless you consider the opinion of Imam Ali a.s. superior over the opinion of Abu Bakr but then again this is not in concordance with sunnism either.

During rida wars Imam Ali was also on abu bakr side.

At saqifa leader of ansaar sad bin ubadah did not accpet abu baklr as caliph rather he wanted that position for himself. But Abu bakr did not declare him an apostate. Likewise Imam ALi also not declared muawiya an apostate. Its all in accordance with ahlul sunnah.

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22 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

:) Ignorance at its peak. What about the ayah e wilayat (5:55)? What about ulil amr? Allah commanding to obey them but forgot to introduce them (na'uzobillah).

What about the saying of Prophet at Zul'ashira and at Ghadir e Khum about Imam Ali? Does people nominated him as bab e madinatul ilm? Does people nominated his name for being called "kull e emaan"?

Who gave the name to Imam Hassan? What was the origin of that name? Who introduced him as Imam? Who introduced him as prince of the youth of jannah? 

Do you think all this happen by consultation? What sort of blindness is that you are comparing these blessed personalities with the ones who are proved disobedients, liars, usurpers etc?

وَمَا كَانَ لِنَفْسٍ أَن تُؤْمِنَ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَيَجْعَلُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ

Shakir

And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah's permission; and He casts uncleanness on those who will not understand. (10:100)

All rijs are kept away from Ahl Albayat by intend of Allah swt (verse 33:33) 

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10 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

The answers to the questions asked in the thread is Nil,  So I have Nothing to do with your assumptions, Except saying "Qalu salama"..

The system you are forcing me to believe has no basis. Assumptions are not the subsititue for truth. Prove your claims. So far you are failed to verify what you are claiming. I have proven mine. Read following post. 

 

Imam Ali for whom you are doing all this himself never used any such thing as an argument neither to abu bakr nor to muawiya. In fact gave bayah to first three caliphs and validated the shura process and later used it as an argument against muawiya and justified his own position of being the caliph by the same process. This all is as per shia history.

I repeat again:

If Imam ALi really considered saqifa and shura process invalid and against Allah's permission then it make him a hypocrite by getting the caliphate till his last breath by the same process and using this as an argument to legitimate himself in front of muawiya as in letter 6 and calling it pleasure of Allah there.

More from his sayings is here http://www.*************/2015/12/12/nahjul-balagha-contradicts-shia-teachings/.

This is my last post on this subject.

w.salam

 

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23 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

you are just neglecting the verses quoted in my posts about the right of Allah swt alone to choose the prophets, imams , leaders or caliphs fro the guidance of the peole..

How many prophets have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many leaders have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many caliphs  have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

How many imams have been chosen by consultation by the people for their guidance? please names them from the verses of Quran

If are truthful then please quote the example from the verses of quran as asked above.

The answers from the sunni friend are missing except they have claims and claims.

As per Quran No prophets, No leader, No caliph and No imam has  ever been chosen by the people for their guidance except the guided representatives were chosen by Allah swt alone. None has any right of choosing such representatives except by Allah swt. Verse 28:68 in addition to many other verses  is the proof.

The principle of choosing the leaders / caliphs after the prophet saww by the companions for suit their wishes or guidance does not exist in Quran.

The purified Ahl Albaayt AS have been asked in many traditions to be followed are true guided leaders (ie 12 imams from the progeny of the Prophet saww).

wasalam

Edited by skyweb1987

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Quote

As per Quran No prophets, No leader, No caliph and No imam has  ever been chosen by the people for their guidance except the guided representatives were chosen by Allah swt alone. None has any right of choosing such representatives except by Allah swt. Verse 28:68 in addition to many other verses  is the proof.

I read following in Sunni site: (http://islamiclearningmaterials.com/leadership-in-islam/)

Since there’s no instructions in the Quran on choosing a leader, and there’s no explicit instructions in the Sunnah, we next turn to the Sahabas, the companions of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). There were the closest to him and understood the Quran and Sunnah better than all of us.

When Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) died without appointing a successor, the Muslims of Medina immediately began to discuss who would be the next leader. After some discussion, Umar grabbed Abu Bakr’s hands, giving him his allegiance.

The other Muslims followed suit and without any campaigning or politicking, Abu Bakr was made the leader. Two years later, Abu Bakr had fallen ill and he knew his time was near. He appointed Umar Ibn Al-Khattab as the next Caliph after him.
---

If we accept the same logic then first, the closest ones would be family of prophet Muhammad (saws), and the closest to Prophet Muhammad is Imam Ali (as). Second, Imam Ali (as) was purified and he never enjoy disobedience of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Third, Imam Ali was the most knowledgeable after Prophet Muhammad (saws) in Qur'an and Sunnah. Fourth, According to Sunnis Imam Ali was the best of the judge. He was also perfect with military, political, spiritual leader. 

So who is now deserving to be the Khalife? Don't let this nonsense reasoning make you think that they chooses the most fitted successor, they only chooses Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman for Dunya sake. 

 

Edited by Dhulfikar

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21 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

If we accept the same logic then first, the closest ones would be family of prophet Muhammad (saws), and the closest to Prophet Muhammad is Imam Ali (as). Second, Imam Ali (as) was purified and he never enjoy disobedience of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Third, Imam Ali was the most knowledgeable after Prophet Muhammad (saws) in Qur'an and Sunnah. Fourth, According to Sunnis Imam Ali was the best of the judge. He was also perfect with military, political, spiritual leader. 

So who is now deserving to be the Khalife? Don't let this nonsense reasoning make you think that they chooses the most fitted successor, they only chooses Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman for Dunya sake. 

The words of Imam Ali AS from Letter No. 28 to Mawiya ,Nehjul balagha:

"Our Islam is well-known and our (greatness in the) pre-Islamic period too cannot be denied. Whatever remains has been mentioned in the words of Allah the Glorified, the Sublime:

And blood relations have the better claim in respect of one to the other, according to the Book of Allah... (Qur'an, 33:6)

He (Allah) the Sublime, also says:

Verily, of men the nearest to Abraham are surely those who followed him and this (Our) Prophet (Muhammad) and those who believe; and verily, Allah, is the Guardian of the faithful. (Qur'an, 3:68)

Thus, we are superior firstly because of kinship and secondly because of obedience. When at Saqifah (of Banu Sa'idah) the Muhajirun contended kinship with the Messenger of Allah (S) against the Ansar, they scored over them. If that success was based on kinship then the right would be ours better than yours. Otherwise, the Ansar's contention stands. You think that I have been jealous of every caliph and have revolted against them. Even if this be so, it is not an offence against you and therefore no explanation is due to you.

“This is a matter for which no blame comes to you”.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-28-reply-muawiyah-and-it-one-ot-his-most-elegant

Edited by skyweb1987

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Salaam Aleikum,

There is very beautiful Sahih hadith amoung our books that beautifully describe that after the Prophet Muhammad (saws) there will be two kind of Imams, the Imams that have been described in Qur'an, The guidance Imams and Misguidance Imams. And Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى have allowed them two to exist, like how He did in the time of Musa (the leading Imam of guidance) and Pharaoh (leading Imam for misguidance):

 

حمدبنمحمد،عنالحسنبنمحبوب،عنعبداللهبنغالب،ٔمحمدبنيحيى،عنا ية:“يومندعوكلاناسٓبيجعفرعليهالسمقال:قال:لمانزلتهذهأعنجابر،عنا جمعين؟قال:فقالرسولٔمامالناسكلهمإلستأمامهم"قالالمسلمون:يارسولاللهإبا ئمةعلىٔجمعينولكنسيكونمنبعديألىالناسإنارسولاللهأله:آاللهصلىاللهعليهوا ئمةالكفروالضلٔهلبيتي،يقومونفيالناسفيكذبون،ويظلمهمأالناسمناللهمنا ومنظلمهموكذبهمٔشياعهم،فمنواهم،واتبعهموصدقهمفهومنيومعيوسيلقاني،أوا نامنهبرئ.ٔفليسمنيومعيوا


Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from al-Hasan b. Mahbub from ‘Abdillah b. Ghalib from Jabir from Abu Ja‘far عليهالسم. He said: He said: When this verse was revealed, “The day we will call every person with their Imam” (17:71) the Muslims said: O Messenger of Allah, are you not the Imam of all of the people altogether? He said: So the Messenger of Allah لهٓصلىاللهعليهوا said: I am the Messenger of Allah to the people altogether, but there shall be Imams over the people after me from Allah from my Ahl al-Bayt, rising amongst the people. So the Imams of kufr and misguidance and their partisans will bely them and oppress them. Surely, whoever is loyal to them and follows them and believes in them is from me. Surely, whoever oppresses them and assists upon their oppression and belies them is not from me and not with me, and I dissociate from him. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, Book 4, Chapter on the two Imams in the Qur’an: An Imam that calls to Allah, and an Imam that calls to the Fire, hadith #1) (sahih)

The Khalifas are the Imams that oppressed the Imams of Guidance (those that never enjoyed disobedience of Allah (swt)). The other clear note Prophet said that whoever assist upon their oppression and belies them is not from me and not with me.

 

Edited by Dhulfikar

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13 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

The Khalifas are the Imams that oppressed the Imams of Guidance (those that never enjoyed disobedience of Allah (swt)). The other clear note Prophet said that whoever assist upon their oppression and belies them is not from me and not with me.

This is excellent conclusion in the light of the words of the Quran and hadiht of the prophet saww coming through the imams from the purified  progeny of the prophet saww.

Edited by skyweb1987

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