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This Is One Of The Reasons Why Abortion Is Haram

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The funny thing is that when me or repenter criticizes Iranian society, none of the hardcore hezbollahis or wilayatis go through such an internal torture to come and defend to the teeth, the things which we criticize. In fact this has never happened. I called Iranians monkeys once, nobody called me out on it. Repenter said he wanted to get Lebanese citizenship (after the nuclear deal was announced). Nobody called him out on it. The only person on shiachat who is deluded in his allegiance to a specific social order or political system is... yous. No one else. Just yous. Why don't you go take Michael Jackson's advice and look at the man in the mirror. Hmm? Hmmm?

 

oh wow....how rude of repentor to say he wanted to get a Lebanese nationality. How dare he? Isnt that supposed to be blasphemy? Jokes aside, but when I criticize Iran folks rain on me as if its monsoon season.

Maybe because I do not know literally anything  be it political, economical, or social about that country, since I dont know, I dont live there? I am not part of that society?  The only thing I am vocal about is any oppression and injustices done anywhere. I dont need to make a thread. The reason why I made this thread (I dont know why I have to justify myself to you) is because I live here, and I understand what goes on in our societies on a social level. It affects me, and MANY OTHERS, on this forum who live in similar societies. It isnt only about america. I thought I would share it, to give us all a wake up call, on something so recent, yet so devastating.

btw- i never criticized your thread...if you have short memory you can look back.

 

If you dont know anything about Afghanistan then it wont hurt to learn. The society that you are living can do without you, but a society like Afghanistan could benefit immensely from your input. Try to bring your actions and words closer to your belief. If Imam Zaman comes do you think he is going to come and live in US and criticize things here? Did Prophet Muhammad (saw) go and live in Byzantine? If you truly believe in Islam and if yo8u truly want to be a good person then educate yourself with Afghanistan. Find ways to help for it will go a very long way in improving the conditions of innocent and miserable Muslims.

Wahdat, as I've said to you in the past, if you want to adopt a slave mentality, then do so, but stop criticising the rest of us for not demeaning ourselves in the same way.

 

i live where i want and how I want. Is that the case with you? Who is the slave here living with slave mentality?

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oh wow....how rude of repentor to say he wanted to get a Lebanese nationality. How dare he? Isnt that supposed to be blasphemy? Jokes aside, but when I criticize Iran folks rain on me as if its monsoon season.

 

I don't hold allegiance to Iran, I hold allegiance to a set of principals and whoever follows it. If that "whoever" is the entire country, great, if it's the entire government, goodie, if its part of the government, woohoo, and even if its only one man left following those principals then i hold allegiance to him. 

 

The problem I have when people criticize is that they tend to point their fingers in the wrong place.

 

 

And i don't understand this nationality obsession. I currently live in Norway, i work here and i pay taxes. I pay more tax than 76% of the population in Norway. I follow the law and i consider myself a good citizen.

 

Now, am i not allowed to criticize the country i pay taxes in and work in  for something i believe to be morally wrong? Is that what you are getting at? Am i supposed to move back to my country of birth and criticize them first? Let's pretend that logic is valid,  What will they say then? You came back after 30 years and judge us? Basically what you are saying is that people who move out of their country need to shut up and not speak?

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I don't hold allegiance to Iran, I hold allegiance to a set of principals and whoever follows it. If that "whoever" is the entire country, great, if it's the entire government, goodie, if its part of the government, woohoo, and even if its only one man left following those principals then i hold allegiance to him. 

 

The problem I have when people criticize is that they tend to point their fingers in the wrong place. 

 

for example....

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i live where i want and how I want. Is that the case with you? Who is the slave here living with slave mentality?

What makes you think we don't live where we want, and how we want? The difference is we allow ourselves to have differing opinions from the larger society. The is freedom, not feeling like if you say anything out of place, you might get kicked out.

Here, I think Malcolm X is talking about people like you:

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What makes you think we don't live where we want, and how we want? The difference is we allow ourselves to have differing opinions from the larger society. The is freedom, not feeling like if you say anything out of place, you might get kicked out.

Here, I think Malcolm X is talking about people like you:

 

so by that logic you are  a 'field negro'? a slave? Do you feel that you are a slave?

and what sort of freedom it is to live somewhere you hate...much like slaves...no?

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btw- i never criticized your thread...if you have short memory you can look back.

 

If you dont know anything about Afghanistan then it wont hurt to learn. The society that you are living can do without you, but a society like Afghanistan could benefit immensely from your input. Try to bring your actions and words closer to your belief. If Imam Zaman comes do you think he is going to come and live in US and criticize things here? Did Prophet Muhammad (saw) go and live in Byzantine? If you truly believe in Islam and if yo8u truly want to be a good person then educate yourself with Afghanistan. Find ways to help for it will go a very long way in improving the conditions of innocent and miserable Muslims.

 

The society I am living in can do without me? Excuse me? Who the hell are you to kick me out of my own society? You are missing the point! It isnt about societies, its about principles! Be it ANYWHERE on earth. I appreciate the advice, but you should be the one telling yourself all this. The issue isnt me, its you and your double standards. inshAllah God willing, I have plans to help mankind in general not a specific place, especially the needy and poor. But as I said, this is one thing, and one thing alone. ENJOINING GOOD AND FORBIDDING EVIL. Notice no where in the quran it is limited to my own "original" country, or specific place. Whether or not I talk about all or one place is irrelevant.

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so by that logic you are  a 'field negro'? a slave? Do you feel that you are a slave?

No. Once again, we see that logic isn't your strong point. The point is that you share the mentality of a house negro, not that you actually are a slave (anymore than the people Malcolm X were talking about slaves). Try to keep up.

I can just imagine you as one of those slaves that would have told the others who were unhappy with their situation to keep quiet in case master hears them, and punishes them all.

and what sort of freedom it is to live somewhere you hate...much like slaves...no?

Err... no. A slave lives where he is told to live. I live here by choice. The fact that I have criticisms of the country I live in makes me no different from most thinking people in the world. I also have the freedom to state my opinions, which you apparently don't feel that you have.

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@Wahdat,muslims are not the only ones criticizing Western gouvernments...there are a lot of ppl frustrated with current developments.It's not about countries or nations it's about laws that are implemented which are not serving the ppl and society but loud lobbies.

On another level there are also a lot of system critics against coporate dictatorship,Troika-slavery and what not.

Edited by mina313

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I don't hold allegiance to Iran, I hold allegiance to a set of principals and whoever follows it. If that "whoever" is the entire country, great, if it's the entire government, goodie, if its part of the government, woohoo, and even if its only one man left following those principals then i hold allegiance to him. 

 

The problem I have when people criticize is that they tend to point their fingers in the wrong place.

 

 

And i don't understand this nationality obsession. I currently live in Norway, i work here and i pay taxes. I pay more tax than 76% of the population in Norway. I follow the law and i consider myself a good citizen.

 

Now, am i not allowed to criticize the country i pay taxes in and work in  for something i believe to be morally wrong? Is that what you are getting at? Am i supposed to move back to my country of birth and criticize them first? Let's pretend that logic is valid,  What will they say then? You came back after 30 years and judge us? Basically what you are saying is that people who move out of their country need to shut up and not speak?

 

Criticize all you want. But when folks criticize the very founding principles of secularism- ones that has given them everything then I cant help but see it as utter hypocrisy.... for example- you as Iranian living in Norway and having a job etc...criticize Norway's policy to give Bangladeshis the same wont be anything short of hypocrisy. We as visible minorities in these secular societies enjoy all the rights and then turn around and try to deny the same rights to other visible minorities (gays) because our God told us so likewise. Because God did not give you these privileges, secularism did. And if you want to deny them for others then the first logical step would be to deny it for yourself. no?

Yeah....let's not go down that rabbit hole again shall we?

 

Why not? If honesty is there and void of any nationalistic feelings then we could have a very constructive discussion. 

The society I am living in can do without me? Excuse me? Who the hell are you to kick me out of my own society? You are missing the point! It isnt about societies, its about principles! Be it ANYWHERE on earth. I appreciate the advice, but you should be the one telling yourself all this. The issue isnt me, its you and your double standards. inshAllah God willing, I have plans to help mankind in general not a specific place, especially the needy and poor. But as I said, this is one thing, and one thing alone. ENJOINING GOOD AND FORBIDDING EVIL. Notice no where in the quran it is limited to my own "original" country, or specific place. Whether or not I talk about all or one place is irrelevant.

 

My double standards? Where?

Enjoining Good and Forbidding Evil is the backone of the Taliban and ISIS and Nusra philosophies.

And what evil have you forbidden in the US? Except for mere talk....talk is cheap. Come and talk to me the day your action matches your ideals. Until then deflate yourself and become humble.

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No. Once again, we see that logic isn't your strong point. The point is that you share the mentality of a house negro, not that you actually are a slave (anymore than the people Malcolm X were talking about slaves). Try to keep up.

I can just imagine you as one of those slaves that would have told the others who were unhappy with their situation to keep quiet in case master hears them, and punishes them all.

Err... no. A slave lives where he is told to live. I live here by choice. The fact that I have criticisms of the country I live in makes me no different from most thinking people in the world. I also have the freedom to state my opinions, which you apparently don't feel that you have.

 

Well....if this secular world is the opposite of the religious values you propagate and if you still live here then that makes you a slave. Talk is cheap. I gave the example of this Afghani guy who left everything to go to Afghanistan against all odds for shias earlier because of differences in values. He aint a slave. He is pious. You talk. He walked.

And again its your slave mentality that brings fear of the 'master' into this. It aint fear...just the way I was brought up- dont do dodo in the plate that you eat from. Be thankful to your host. Be graceful etc.

And who said logic was universal?..................

 

dont do unto others what you dont want to be done to you is very universal. no?

unless you are Haydar Hussyan of course lol

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My double standards? Where?

Enjoining Good and Forbidding Evil is the backone of the Taliban and ISIS and Nusra philosophies.

And what evil have you forbidden in the US? Except for mere talk....talk is cheap. Come and talk to me the day your action matches your ideals. Until then deflate yourself and become humble.

 

Face Palm...I am glad you have given your true feelings about Islam and how it is a facade. Although, it was quite obvious on how you talk and represent yourself on this forum. I am done with you.

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Criticize all you want. But when folks criticize the very founding principles of secularism- ones that has given them everything then I cant help but see it as utter hypocrisy.... for example- you as Iranian living in Norway and having a job etc...criticize Norway's policy to give Bangladeshis the same wont be anything short of hypocrisy. We as visible minorities in these secular societies enjoy all the rights and then turn around and try to deny the same rights to other visible minorities (gays) because our God told us so likewise. Because God did not give you these privileges, secularism did. And if you want to deny them for others then the first logical step would be to deny it for yourself. no?

This just shows you don't even understand what is being discussed here. Nobody is talking about denying rights to 'gays'. You seriously just need to stop, because you are a making a fool of yourself to any unbiased observer (and probably a great deal of the biased ones as well).

And by the way, as Muslims, we believe that everything comes from God.

 

Enjoining Good and Forbidding Evil is the backone of the Taliban and ISIS and Nusra philosophies.

It's also the backbone of being a Muslim. Have you read the Qur'an recently?

And what evil have you forbidden in the US? Except for mere talk....talk is cheap. Come and talk to me the day your action matches your ideals. Until then deflate yourself and become humble.

"If one of you sees something wrong, let him change it with his hand; if he cannot, then with his tongue; if he cannot, then with his heart and this is the weakest faith." - Prophet Muhammad

Do you even oppose these things in your heart?

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The videos are highly edited.

 

They are fake. Look it up.

 

they are fake? do you even know who the people were in the video? Do you know what they represent? Do you know the companies they own and the connections they have? It is FAR from fake. No idiot, will make a fake video of their self, potentially giving free evidence to the police of selling human body parts.

They just uploaded another episode and its just as disgusting or even worse. I am watching it right now. VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED. This one may contain actual body parts astagfirullah :(

 

 

LOS ANGELES, July 28--The first episode in a new documentary web series features a woman who once worked in Planned Parenthood clinics describing the profit motive involved in Planned Parenthood’s sale of aborted fetal body parts, and includes new admissions from top-level Planned Parenthood leadership about the illicit pricing structure.

The “Human Capital” documentary web series is produced by The Center for Medical Progress and integrates expert interviews, eyewitness accounts, and real-life undercover interactions to tell the story of Planned Parenthood’s commercial exploitation of aborted fetal tissue. Episode 1, “Planned Parenthood’s Black Market in Baby Parts,” launches today at:

Episode 1 introduces Holly O’Donnell, a licensed phlebotomist who unsuspectingly took a job as a “procurement technician” at the fetal tissue company and biotech start-up StemExpress in late 2012. “I thought I was going to be just drawing blood, not procuring tissue from aborted fetuses,” says O’Donnell, who fainted in shock on her first day of work in a Planned Parenthood clinic when suddenly asked to dissect a freshly-aborted fetus during her on-the-job training.

For 6 months, O’Donnell’s job was to identify pregnant women at Planned Parenthood who met criteria for fetal tissue orders and to harvest the fetal body parts after their abortions. O’Donnell describes the financial benefit Planned Parenthood received from StemExpress: “For whatever we could procure, they would get a certain percentage. The main nurse was always trying to make sure we got our specimens. No one else really cared, but the main nurse did because she knew that Planned Parenthood was getting compensated.”

Episode 1 also shows undercover video featuring the Vice President and Medical Director of Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains (PPRM) in Denver, CO, Dr. Savita Ginde. PPRM is one of the largest and wealthiest Planned Parenthood affiliates and operates clinics in Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, and Nevada. Standing in the Planned Parenthood abortion clinic pathology laboratory, where fetuses are brought after abortions, Ginde concludes that payment per organ removed from a fetus will be the most beneficial to Planned Parenthood: “I think a per-item thing works a little better, just because we can see how much we can get out of it.”

The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue is a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison or a fine of up to $500,000 (42 U.S.C. 289g-2).

Dr. Katherine Sheehan, Medical Director emerita of Planned Parenthood of the Pacific Southwest in San Diego, describes her affiliate’s long-time relationship with Advanced Bioscience Resources, a middleman company that has been providing aborted fetal organs since 1989: “We’ve been using them for over 10 years, really a long time, you know, just kind of renegotiated the contract. They’re doing the big government-level collections and things like that.”

“Planned Parenthood’s sale of aborted baby parts is an offensive and horrifying reality that is widespread enough for many people to be available to give first-person testimony about it,” notes David Daleiden, Project Lead for The Center for Medical Progress. “CMP’s investigative journalism work will continue to surface more compelling eyewitness accounts and primary source evidence of Planned Parenthood’s trafficking and selling baby parts for profit. There should be an immediate moratorium on Planned Parenthood’s taxpayer funding while Congress and the states determine the full extent of the organization’s lawbreaking.”

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Criticize all you want. But when folks criticize the very founding principles of secularism- ones that has given them everything then I cant help but see it as utter hypocrisy

 

What exactly has secularism given me? Do you even know what secularism is? Secularism has not been the reason for anything i personally enjoy. Please show me which principles unique to secularism has given me something, except the fact that I probably have to waste a lot of energy explaining to my kids why the teacher is wrong in that abortion is wrong, sex outside of wedlock is ok, sodomy is fine and many other problematic issues?

 

 

 

for example- you as Iranian living in Norway and having a job etc...criticize Norway's policy to give Bangladeshis the same wont be anything short of hypocrisy

 

How is this relevant? If i as an Iranian criticize that Norway allows Bangladeshis having a job like me, then yes it's hypocrisy. But if i find out Bangladeshis as a group use the money they earn to fund something i find morally destructive, then of course i will speak out. What is the point of criticizing something if the rule is that everyone has to agree with your statement before you can criticize?

 

 

 

We as visible minorities in these secular societies enjoy all the rights and then turn around and try to deny the same rights to other visible minorities (gays) because our God told us so likewise.

 

I don't know about you, but i don't enjoy the right to abort babies or practice sodomy. Do you enjoy these rights? I enjoy the rights that i believe God has told me to enjoy and i speak out against the rights/laws that God has said is destructive to society. 

 

 

 

Because God did not give you these privileges, secularism did. And if you want to deny them for others then the first logical step would be to deny it for yourself. no?

 

Ehh, that is exactly what i'm doing. I don't consider abortion, drugs, sodomy as privileges and i do deny it for myself. You haven't really thought this through have you?

Again, not sure what this has to do with secularism. This issue is also wider than "rights". We are speaking of moral values, destructive acts to society, and the ability to be able to speak out against such things. Also the issue isn't just about homosexuality or abortion, but the dirty tactics used to enforce something that 20 years ago was disgusting become normal.

 

 

 

Why not? If honesty is there and void of any nationalistic feelings then we could have a very constructive discussion. 

 

Because you are the one that is bringing nationality and origin of birth into the discussion in the first place and using it as the base of your arguments. You aren't making any sense.

Also, because i do not believe it is fruitful in the long run to debate with someone who clearly has a very different perception of what "truth", "religion" and "reality" is. 

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Why the big fuss all of you are making over abortion and selling dead baby bits? I mean most of you take vaccines and give it to your kids right.

You do realise most vaccines contain aborted baby bits. Our respected Marjas and the entire muslim community have no problems with that.

Under these conditions it must be ok to chop, slice and sell.

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Sami I do realize you troll frequently on this forum, but do not joke about killing innocent beings. That's disgusting. Also I kindly request of you to not spread information without valid evidence proving your points.

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What exactly has secularism given me? Do you even know what secularism is? Secularism has not been the reason for anything i personally enjoy. Please show me which principles unique to secularism has given me something, except the fact that I probably have to waste a lot of energy explaining to my kids why the teacher is wrong in that abortion is wrong, sex outside of wedlock is ok, sodomy is fine and many other problematic issues?

 

Secularism has given you and your family a society where you can live freely regardless of your faith, race, or religion. Alot more than any religious system/countries in the world giving anyone outside the fold of their race or religion...IRI included.

How is this relevant? If i as an Iranian criticize that Norway allows Bangladeshis having a job like me, then yes it's hypocrisy. But if i find out Bangladeshis as a group use the money they earn to fund something i find morally destructive, then of course i will speak out. What is the point of criticizing something if the rule is that everyone has to agree with your statement before you can criticize?

 

When Muslims take full advantage of privileges of the secular society, its morally wrong to chant for denial of the same to others based on their religious values. 

I don't know about you, but i don't enjoy the right to abort babies or practice sodomy. Do you enjoy these rights? I enjoy the rights that i believe God has told me to enjoy and i speak out against the rights/laws that God has said is destructive to society. 

 

What about the right to wear hijab? What about the right to practice your religion freely? What about the right to live freely? Because there are folks who want to deny the same rights to you. And if you are to have your way who would stop the others from having their way. Which will end up making a ME out of here.

No I dont enjoy those rights. The dont bother me. Because I will never abort a baby or practice homosexuality. And I cant deny those rights to others because my God says so. Lets stop being spokespersons for God where God gifts and entire country to some people at the cost of others or where God tells to behead another community or......

Ehh, that is exactly what i'm doing. I don't consider abortion, drugs, sodomy as privileges and i do deny it for myself. You haven't really thought this through have you?

Again, not sure what this has to do with secularism. This issue is also wider than "rights". We are speaking of moral values, destructive acts to society, and the ability to be able to speak out against such things. Also the issue isn't just about homosexuality or abortion, but the dirty tactics used to enforce something that 20 years ago was disgusting become normal.

 

You misunderstood. The day you stop taking advantages of privileges given to you by this secular society is the day you can criticize or deny it to others.

The issue with morality is that everyone thinks they are right. IS thinks they are absolutely right. Saudi thinks they are. Iran thinks they are. Israel thinks they are....... I think a mature approach would be to adhere to what we believe in without force feeding it to others and let God be the ultimate judge.

Because you are the one that is bringing nationality and origin of birth into the discussion in the first place and using it as the base of your arguments. You aren't making any sense.

Also, because i do not believe it is fruitful in the long run to debate with someone who clearly has a very different perception of what "truth", "religion" and "reality" is. 

 

If Afghans are being discriminated against because of being Afghans in Iran....then how saying its so makes one nationalist? Defending the wrong because you come from the country thats doing the wrong is what I find to be absolutely wrong.

Face Palm...I am glad you have given your true feelings about Islam and how it is a facade. Although, it was quite obvious on how you talk and represent yourself on this forum. I am done with you.

 

I dont care about whether you are done or otherwise. I'd care if you told me that I was wrong about Taliban and others using the same concept to justify their wrong. Everyone could force their point of view using this concept.

This just shows you don't even understand what is being discussed here. Nobody is talking about denying rights to 'gays'. You seriously just need to stop, because you are a making a fool of yourself to any unbiased observer (and probably a great deal of the biased ones as well).

And by the way, as Muslims, we believe that everything comes from God.

 

It's also the backbone of being a Muslim. Have you read the Qur'an recently?

"If one of you sees something wrong, let him change it with his hand; if he cannot, then with his tongue; if he cannot, then with his heart and this is the weakest faith." - Prophet Muhammad

Do you even oppose these things in your heart?

 

I would have 100% agreed with you if we lived in our own countries. But we are living in completely different societies with different values. You are like that dude who wants to installs a .exe file in a mac. Its just absurd no matter how much you like Windows or how good it is. It has nothing to do with that. Its just not compatible. Your values likewise. They are not just compatible with the values that these societies are based upon.

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Wahdat, I am living in my 'own country'. Just because you may not be, don't presume to speak for everyone else.

And for the hundredth time, nobody is talking about changing anything in these countries. This is purely an internal discussion amongst Muslims, which for the life of me, I can't understand why it bothers you so much.

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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Secularism has given you and your family a society where you can live freely regardless of your faith, race, or religion. Alot more than any religious system/countries in the world giving anyone outside the fold of their race or religion...IRI included.

 

When Muslims take full advantage of privileges of the secular society, its morally wrong to chant for denial of the same to others based on their religious values. 

 

What about the right to wear hijab? What about the right to practice your religion freely? What about the right to live freely? Because there are folks who want to deny the same rights to you. And if you are to have your way who would stop the others from having their way. Which will end up making a ME out of here.

No I dont enjoy those rights. The dont bother me. Because I will never abort a baby or practice homosexuality. And I cant deny those rights to others because my God says so. Lets stop being spokespersons for God where God gifts and entire country to some people at the cost of others or where God tells to behead another community or......

 

You misunderstood. The day you stop taking advantages of privileges given to you by this secular society is the day you can criticize or deny it to others.

The issue with morality is that everyone thinks they are right. IS thinks they are absolutely right. Saudi thinks they are. Iran thinks they are. Israel thinks they are....... I think a mature approach would be to adhere to what we believe in without force feeding it to others and let God be the ultimate judge.

 

If Afghans are being discriminated against because of being Afghans in Iran....then how saying its so makes one nationalist? Defending the wrong because you come from the country thats doing the wrong is what I find to be absolutely wrong.

 

I dont care about whether you are done or otherwise. I'd care if you told me that I was wrong about Taliban and others using the same concept to justify their wrong. Everyone could force their point of view using this concept.

 

I would have 100% agreed with you if we lived in our own countries. But we are living in completely different societies with different values. You are like that dude who wants to installs a .exe file in a mac. Its just absurd no matter how much you like Windows or how good it is. It has nothing to do with that. Its just not compatible. Your values likewise. They are not just compatible with the values that these societies are based upon.

 

And this is why we can't debate, because our views on terms, countries, religion, principals are so different that it's practically impossible and we end up going in circles, which isn't fruitful for either of us. You have said your opinion, and I have said mine, let's leave it at that respectfully. 

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Wahdat, I am living in my 'own country'. Just because you may not be, don't presume to speak for everyone else.

And for the hundredth time, nobody is talking about changing anything in these countries. This is purely an internal discussion amongst Muslims, which for the life of me, I can't understand why it bothers you so much.

 

You sound like those right wing British folks. They too are doing nothing against Muslims but instead spread their negative views about them. One thing that I have learnt about these societies and the thing that makes them great is that they respect everybody. I think Muslims, whose lands are on fire and brothers kill brothers and neighbors usurp from neighbors we can go a long way if we did not use religion to justify hate and negativity and instead learnt to respect.

Norway has a population of about 5 Million. They have provided food, shelter, clothing, equal rights, education etc for more than 600 000 human beings. Thats more than the entire Muslim population of 1.5-2 Billion people with a sizeable wealth. Now think about that and see who or where the real Islam is and where is the talk-Islam

The issue with Muslims today is that most are only Muslims in word and claim and not action.

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Sami I do realize you troll frequently on this forum, but do not joke about killing innocent beings. That's disgusting. Also I kindly request of you to not spread information without valid evidence proving your points.

 

WI-38 is a diploid human cell culture line composed of fibroblasts derived from lung tissue of a three-month-old white (caucasian) female fetus.[1] The cell line, isolated by Leonard Hayflick and Paul Moorhead in the 1960s,[2] has been used extensively in scientific research, with applications ranging from developing important theories in molecular biology to the production of many types of vaccines. .[3] The contributions from this cell line on research has been credited with saving the lives of "millions of people".[4]

 

WI-38 (Wistar Institute-38):

“The WI-38 cell line was developed in July 1962 from lung tissue taken from a therapeutically aborted fetus of about 3 months gestational age. Cells released by trypsin digestion of the lung tissue were used for the primary culture. The cell morphology is fibroblast-like. The karyotype is 46,XX; normal diploid female. A maximum lifespan of 50 population doublings for this culture was obtained at the Repository. A thymidine labelling index of 86% was obtained after recovery. G6PD is isoenzyme type B. This culture of WI-38 is an expansion from passage 9 frozen cells obtained from the submitter.”

https://catalog.coriell.org/0/Sections/Search/Sample_Detail.aspx?Ref=AG06814-N&PgId=166

 

MRC-5 (Medical Research Council -5):

“The MRC-5 cell line was developed in September 1966 from lung tissue taken from a 14 week fetus aborted for psychiatric reason from a 27 year old physically healthy woman. The cell morphology is fibroblast-like. The karyotype is 46,XY; normal diploid male. Cumulative population doublings to senescence is 42-48. G6PD isoenzyme is type B.”

Source: Coriell Institute for Medical Research

 

some of the vaccines with baby bits still being used today, notice the manufacturers T.I. Dates .

 

Adenovirus                                (manufacturer's  P.I. dated march 2011)

DTaP-IPV/Hib (Pentacel)      (  0ctober 2013)

Hep A (Havrix)                         (  dec 2013)

Hep B (Engerix-)                     ( dec 2013)

Hep A/Hep B (Twinrix)         (aug 2012)

MMR (MMR-II)                      (june 2014)

MMRV (ProQuad)                  (march 2014)

Rabies (Imovax)                      (april 2014)

Varicella (Varivax)                  (march 2014)

Zoster (Shingles – Zostavax) (feb 2014)

 

refer to CDC Vaccine Excipient & Media Summary 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

 

my question to my dear brothers and sisters 

 

1. Is it permissible to kill babies and use their bodies in order to (allegedly) save millions of lives  ?

2. Is it permissible to consume parts of babies that are killed in order to (allegedly) save millions of lives by way of direct injection (of the aborted baby parts) into your bodies.

 

Shakir: For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land. (5:32)

 

 

Edited by :Sami II

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brother we need actual evidence of the vaccines used today (by the general public that are required) by scientific journals. Not some crazies claiming such. What you provided from wiki speaks about centuries old supposed human trials on fetuses, nothing about vaccines. Then you claimed x vaccines contain fetus without any evidence. Dont get me wrong, I dont even get flu shots, but I have gotten vaccines like the ones everyone must get to protect themselves of hep. and such

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brother we need actual evidence of the vaccines used today (by the general public that are required) by scientific journals. Not some crazies claiming such. What you provided from wiki speaks about centuries old supposed human trials on fetuses, nothing about vaccines. Then you claimed x vaccines contain fetus without any evidence. Dont get me wrong, I dont even get flu shots, but I have gotten vaccines like the ones everyone must get to protect themselves of hep. and such

 

Child programs Age Vaccine Birth

  • Hepatitis B (hepB)a

2 months

  • Hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough), Haemophilus influenzae type b, inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (hepB-DTPa-Hib-IPV)
  • Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV)
  • Rotavirus

4 months

  • Hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough), Haemophilus influenzae type b, inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (hepB-DTPa-Hib-IPV)
  • Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV)
  • Rotavirus

6 months

  • Hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough), Haemophilus influenzae type b, inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (hepB-DTPa-Hib-IPV)
  • Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV)
  • Rotavirus b

12 months

  • Haemophilus influenzae type b and meningococcal C (Hib-MenC)
  • Measles, mumps and rubella (MMR)

18 months

  • Measles, mumps, rubella and varicella (chickenpox) (MMRV)

4 years

  • Diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough) and inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (DTPa-IPV)
  • Measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) (to be given only if MMRV vaccine was not given at 18 months)

School programs Age Vaccine 10–15 years (contact your State or Territory Health Department for details)

  • Varicella (chickenpox) c
  • Human papillomavirus (HPV) d
  • Diphtheria, tetanus and acellular pertussis (whooping cough) (dTpa)
  •  

In Australia this is a mandatory programme for all children with severe penalties if you do not comply.

http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/national-immunisation-program-schedule

 

 

you can download this pdf which lists all the ingredients of all vaccines containing aborted babies, it's all there in black and white.

Many of these vaccines are manufactured recently and are still using the aborted babies.

You don't need medical journals, just go to the manufactures websites or the CDC (below) to verify the use of aborted babies parts in many vaccines today.

refer to CDC Vaccine Excipient & Media Summary 

http://www.cdc.gov/v...ent-table-2.pdf

Edited by :Sami II

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This isnt about vaccines please dont derail the thread. Anyway, I still couldnt find a shred of evidence. If you want to prove it, go create another thread and be very clear with your evidence. Telling someone to go look for it is not providing proof. Oh and with due respect you must be crazy to think the CDC will actually list fetus parts as part of how vaccines are made on their site

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This isnt about vaccines please dont derail the thread. Anyway, I still couldnt find a shred of evidence. If you want to prove it, go create another thread and be very clear with your evidence. Telling someone to go look for it is not providing proof. Oh and with due respect you must be crazy to think the CDC will actually list fetus parts as part of how vaccines are made on their site LOOOL

i have already made a thread on this brother long time ago here on SC, and with all due respect my dear brother, good brothers like yourself are not concerned with real facts and truth but only those that fit into the mainstream thinking of propaganda and disinformation.

I am not here to change that, because no matter what facts I present to good people like you, you will only see what you want to see.

As for vaccines, no respected marja will get involved in this, just like they don't get involve in the truth about Riba and the banking system, or the fluoridation of water, or the IRI being a private company, or many other topics that are hush hush these days.

But please continue on your rant about abortion and totally ignore the big pink elephant staring at you in the lounge room.

I had to put up with good brothers like you for over 50 years so it's nothing new and that's why I live a life away from all of you with my kangaroos  and koalas.

my apologies for derailing your thread, I thought it was relevant to know what actually happened to aborted baby parts.

I won't also mention that it is also used in Pepsi drinks and face creams too.

My duas are with you that you realise the truth one day and I seek forgiveness from you in advance if i'm wrong. (but I'm not in this case )

 

ws

 

PS 

 

CDC website 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

                                                

MMRV (ProQuad)

sucrose, hydrolyzed gelatin, sorbitol, monosodium L-glutamate, sodium phosphate dibasic, human albumin, sodium bicarbonate, potassium phosphate monobasic, potassium chloride, potassium phosphate dibasic, neomycin, bovine calf serum, chick embryo cell culture, WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts, MRC-5 cells

March 2014

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This isnt about vaccines please dont derail the thread. Anyway, I still couldnt find a shred of evidence. If you want to prove it, go create another thread and be very clear with your evidence. Telling someone to go look for it is not providing proof. Oh and with due respect you must be crazy to think the CDC will actually list fetus parts as part of how vaccines are made on their site

 

I believe the issue of tissues being derived from aborted human fetuses directly relates to what :Sami II seems to have posted and hence shouldn't just be ignored because its a little off-topic.

 

Its definitely interesting to see that whats listed by CDC as an excipient included in U.S. Vaccines for Varicella (dated March 2014) under the link http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdfcould possibly be just that:

 

sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, gelatin, monosodium L-glutamate, sodium

phosphate dibasic, potassium phosphate monobasic, potassium chloride,

sodium phosphate monobasic, potassium chloride, EDTA, residual

components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein, neomycin, fetal

bovine serum, human diploid cell cultures (WI-38), embryonic guinea pig

cell cultures, human embryonic lung cultures

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I believe the issue of tissues being derived from aborted human fetuses directly relates to what :Sami II seems to have posted and hence shouldn't just be ignored because its a little off-topic.

 

Its definitely interesting to see that whats listed by CDC as an excipient included in U.S. Vaccines for Varicella (dated March 2014) under the link http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdfcould possibly be just that:

 
sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, gelatin, monosodium L-glutamate, sodium
phosphate dibasic, potassium phosphate monobasic, potassium chloride,
sodium phosphate monobasic, potassium chloride, EDTA, residual
components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein, neomycin, fetal
bovine serum, human diploid cell cultures (WI-38), embryonic guinea pig
cell cultures, human embryonic lung cultures

 

 

I retract and apologize to brother sami. He maybe right in fact, however, this specific vaccine is not a general vaccine used and I believe what has been noted there may not be very clear, since it doesnt say how the cultures were obtained. It is noted that this virus can affect pre 12 month babies, and if that is the case ,it could be taken and used from unsuccessful births and other scenarios besides abortion.

 

Read this: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/varicella.pdf

 

To brother sami, please dont ridicule our scholars. Especially those who do not live in the states, and barely have technologies in their own countries let alone vaccines. It is common sense, if you do not trust something dont give it to your child, and it is also common sense, if there is a chance your child will die, even if something is haram, it becomes halal to use therefore one can even deduce, if a vaccine had in fact parts used from an abortion, and this vaccine was to save your childs life, would you let your child die? For how can anyone not agree, to the fact that the general vaccines prescribed by countries like US are killer diseases that destroyed populations in the past, thus resulted in finding a vaccine to cure such an abomination (not to imply these specific vaccines contain abortion parts, I would need proof). Therefore, I can tell researchers to use my cells for research to find a cure for example. People do in fact donate their bodies for research.

Edited by Ethics

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I retract and apologize to brother sami. He maybe right in fact, however, this specific vaccine is not a general vaccine used and I believe what has been noted there may not be very clear, since it doesnt say how the cultures were obtained. It is noted that this virus can affect pre 12 month babies, and if that is the case ,it could be taken and used from unsuccessful births and other scenarios besides abortion.

 

Read this: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/varicella.pdf

 

To brother sami, please dont ridicule our scholars. Especially those who do not live in the states, and barely have technologies in their own countries let alone vaccines. It is common sense, if you do not trust something dont give it to your child, and it is also common sense, if there is a chance your child will die, even if something is haram, it becomes halal to use therefore one can even deduce, if a vaccine had in fact parts used from an abortion, and this vaccine was to save your childs life, would you let your child die? For how can anyone not agree, to the fact that the general vaccines prescribed by countries like US are killer diseases that destroyed populations in the past, thus resulted in finding a vaccine to cure such an abomination (not to imply these specific vaccines contain abortion parts, I would need proof). Therefore, I can tell researchers to use my cells for research to find a cure for example. People do in fact donate their bodies for research.

my dear brother I accept your apology and please accept mine if I was out of line in anyway, and I seek forgiveness from any comments made to our respected scholars as I have the utmost respect for such momins.

But this topic is not about if vaccines are good or not, or if they work or not.

It is about the big business today of the sale and use of aborted baby parts.

Now everyone here agrees that is it wrong to do such things, and we have established the fact that abortion is haram unless it puts the mother's life at risk.

So on the one  hand we have all the good brothers and sisters disgusted at such things, and on the other hand they all use the products that are made with aboretd babies.

Vaccines are only one example of many, including face creams, Pepsi drinks (which has a sizeable muslim market) and many GMO products.

In all business models, the huge consumers including the 1.5 B muslims consume these products and create an insatiable demand.

The huge multi-national  companies  to meet this demand resort to such things to satisfy this demand, which is created by all of you.

So is it not insane to say that these things are so wrong which it is and through utter ignorance be the ones creating this in the first place ?

There is a simple solution, and that is to not use such products that involves the killing of babies and using their parts, and to demand alternative more moral approach to manufacturing.

But this will never happen till all of you find the TRUTH , THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

With all respect to you and duas to you and your family.

 

ws

Edited by :Sami II

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