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I was wondering whether we could ever form any strong alliances or friendships with them? I feel many of us are simply quite ignorant of them. We seem to pay too much attention to what going on in Lebanon, Palestine, Syria and Iraq instead of thinking about these people. Can't countries like Iran do something to help them out, as they are historically the most prosecuted people in the region?

So I wanted to make a thread to discuss about them on this forum as I find them as quite an interesting and potentially influential people. Forgive me if this is not well written.

To start off and give a bit of background nearly all Hazaras are Shia Muslims in a predominantly Sunni Afghanistan. The Hazara who are predominantly of Eurasian and Mongoloid appearances are said to be descendants of Mongol soldiers, who remained in Afghanistan and became heavily Persianized, where they have heavily been influenced in the past by the Safavids and Kizilbash, which is why many Hazaras are predominantly Shias.

I see them as proudly religious people and they have quite a unique culture and customs. Just like other groups, Hazaras themselves are politically divided people, the divisions are in between Hazara nationalists and secular intellectuals, and the Shia Islamist parties which have been in the past backed by Iran.

To add politically, the Hazara are divided by nationalism, theology, foreign influence, and competing personalities. The current Hazara political establishment now faces new challenges from the intellectual elite of Hazaras. In 2009, an independent, western-educated, Hazara presidential candidate captured 80 percent of Hazara votes. Hazara are ranking high in national education scores, this class of Hazara educated elite including women is likely to grow.

The thing with Hazaras, is that in current day Afghanistan they are succeeding and excelling the most in various parts of society then ever before and that's the something I notice with them in Australia, where the children of Hazara immigrants are doing well in Schools and getting into Universities. Unlike others they are always striving to work hard for a better life, to improve their situation as much as possible. I respect their efforts for what they are trying to do.

Hazara in Afghanistan are ranking high in national education scores, this class of Hazara educated elite including women is likely to grow. They are trying to really establish themselves, and become influential and respected in a society which has rejected them for too long. They are definitely hardworking people, that's what happens when a group is long marginalised where they will always aim to try their hardest and get better.

They have a long history of prosecution and discrimination, by their neighbours namely the Pashtuns who reject them because of their appearance, religion and linguistic differences. And just as recent they have been victims of massacres by the Taliban and al-Qaida. Forgive me if I am wrong as I couldn't find any sources for this, like I once even heard once from a Hazara, that the Taliban regime of Afghanistan was even thought to have once planned a final solution for the Hazaras, similar to what the Nazis planned for the Jews.

Too add many Hazara are engaged in different sports. The most successful Hazara athlete is Rohullah Nikpai who won a bronze medal in taekwondo in the Beijing Olympics 2008, beating world champion Juan Antonio Ramos of Spain 4–1 in a play-off final. It was Afghanistan's first-ever Olympic medal. He then won a second Olympic medal for Afghanistan in the London 2012 games.

Iran even has had its very own notable Hazara footballer, Khordadad Azizi whose parents are originally from Afghanistan. Khordadad Azizi was one of the main reasons why Iran made it to the 1998 World Cup in France! An Iranian footballing legend!

Hazara have truly earned my respect and I sympathise with their troubles.

What are your thoughts and opinions on the Hazara?
 0d04ae2a45f1f93158564170db4984d6.jpg

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Imho it's not possible to 'help' one ethnic fraction in a country which is deeply splitted and has no majority behind it.So are the other ethnic groups in Afghanistan as well. And if there are strong tribal structures within the ethnic groups then it gets even more complicated. Help could be financial and through dialoge to build unity amongst all Afghans.

Look at the countries you have mentioned,they are all at least politically splitted which can be dealt with in the one or other way if there is a large group,I would say half of the citizens at least, within the country that supports the resistance/party/movement against terror threats, regime changes or occupation.

But as long as all the ethnic groups in a country are enemies to each other and are even in disunity amongst themselves then no support or help will be fruitful.Multi-Ethnical and multi-religious countries have no other chance than dialogue and a constitution which they all agree on under one banner...it's all about Nation building in those cases if the ppl want to be and can identify with Afghanistan as Afghans.

The other conflicts and wars you mention are different issues,where paid mercenaries set the fire for sectarian strife/regime changes and we stupid ppl fell into that trap.Palestine is an issue about occupation which is illegal according to international law and therefore gets a lot of attention.

Unity is the key...and it's the most difficult task in this world imho.

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1- No one can help or should help or will help Hazaras except for Hazaras themselves and God. They are hard working people and will carve a decent place in this new globalized and relatively just new world.

 

2- No!!! Hazaras are not remnants of Mongolian soliders as Mongols had more soldeirs in Iran, Iraq, Ukraine, Russia, China etc and yet we dont see Hazara populations in those countries. Hazaras are a mosaic of various Turkic groups that came to Afghanistan from earlier than 2000 years ago to as late as 200 years ago.

 

3- Hazaras are settled in Central part of the country. Usually foreigners or occupiers start their usurpation and settlements from the border areas. White Europeans did not settle in Iowa or Nebraska....they started from the East Coast.

 

4- While having the world at their feet, why would Mongols choose one of the most uninviting places in their empire to settle? It does not make any sense.

 

5- Hazaras are not remnants of Mongolian soldiers. Thats a BIG lie spread by the Pashtun usurpers to justify their thievery of Hazara lands (Uruzgan, Helmand, Jalalabad, Kandahar, Farah etc) and change Afghanistan from a Turkic country to a British puppet Pashtun one. Remember that Turks/Mughuls  were the power in the region prior to the European arrival.


Israelis today use the same myth ( not being the original people of hte land) about Pals to justify their thievery of Palestinian lands.


Imho it's not possible to 'help' one ethnic fraction in a country which is deeply splitted and has no majority behind it.

 

Where would the Shia world be today if Aytaollakh Khomenei (ra) was of the ^ same thinking in regards to the Lebanese shia?

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Forgive me if I am wrong but genetics and linguistics tell other wise. I am not here to offend or misrepresent any Hazara, but many Hazara I know tell me of how their proud of having ancestry from the Mongols and even have surnames like Changezi, which claim descent from Hulagu Khan's troops. Invading Mongols and Turco-Mongols mixed with the local Iranian populations, forming a distinct group, the modern day Hazara. How is it a big lie, when some Hazaras themselves are promoting this "lie"?

 

From what I have read, I believe the Pashtun tribes forcefully pushed the Hazaras into the interior of Afghanistan. Hazaras have quite an interesting background no doubt and they are just as Afghan and belonging to the land just as any other ethnic group whether it be Pashtun, Tajik, Uzbek, Pamiri or really anyone.

 

There is evidence of both a patrimonial and maternal relation to Mongol peoples of Mongolia. Mongol male and female ancestry is supported by studies in genetic genealogy as well, which have identified a particular lineage of the Y‑chromosome characteristic of people of Mongolian descent ("the Y-chromosome of Genghis Khan"). This chromosome is virtually absent outside the limits of the Mongol Empire except among the Hazara, where it reaches its highest frequency anywhere. These results indicate that the Hazara are also characterized by very high frequencies of eastern Eurasian mtDNAs at 35%, which are virtually absent from bordering populations, suggesting that the male descendants of Genghis Khan, or other Mongols, were accompanied by women of East Asian ancestry.

 

Modern Hazaragi contains a number of Mongolic words.Over time the Mongolian language has died out in Afghanistan as living language amongst the Hazara people. Hazaragi is (ultimately) a dialect of the Persian language, with loanwords borrowed from Mongolic. Until recently, a very small number of Hazara near Herat still spoke the Moghol language, a Mongolic language once spoken by rebels against the Mongol armies of the Il-Khanat.

Edited by Zendegi

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@Wahdat,the Lebanese Shias decided to resist and are not deeply divided as the Shias and Hazara in Afghanistan are.

Imam Khomeini told them to resist and trust in God.The support he gave them was also given to Afghan Shias but Lebanon is not Afghanistan. What I want to say that the support is one aspect of getting victorious and independant.

And the Shias in Lebanon are supported by other groups too,like Christans and also some Sunnis.They could build up infrastructure and military power. The resistance is part of the political system there.

Afaik till now groups get financed and supported in Afghanistan but if there is disunity amongst a group it's much more difficult to get successful,same goes for Palestinian resistance groups.

Take a look at Yemen though,on their own ppl started to unite and resist against foreign dictatorship.With no food in their stomach and at the beginning some old Kalashnikows...may Allah make them victorious till Yemen is free from KSA influence.

Edited by mina313

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The support he gave them was also given to Afghan Shias 

 

Could you please elaborate on this with empirical evidence/facts?

Forgive me if I am wrong but genetics and linguistics tell other wise. I am not here to offend or misrepresent any Hazara, but many Hazara I know tell me of how their proud of having ancestry from the Mongols and even have surnames like Changezi, which claim descent from Hulagu Khan's troops. Invading Mongols and Turco-Mongols mixed with the local Iranian populations, forming a distinct group, the modern day Hazara. How is it a big lie, when some Hazaras themselves are promoting this "lie"?

 

From what I have read, I believe the Pashtun tribes forcefully pushed the Hazaras into the interior of Afghanistan. Hazaras have quite an interesting background no doubt and they just as Afghan as any other ethnic group whether it be Pashtun, Tajik, Uzbek, Pamiri or really anyone.

 

There is evidence of both a patrimonial and maternal relation to Mongol peoples of Mongolia. Mongol male and female ancestry is supported by studies in genetic genealogy as well, which have identified a particular lineage of the Y‑chromosome characteristic of people of Mongolian descent ("the Y-chromosome of Genghis Khan"). This chromosome is virtually absent outside the limits of the Mongol Empire except among the Hazara, where it reaches its highest frequency anywhere. These results indicate that the Hazara are also characterized by very high frequencies of eastern Eurasian mtDNAs at 35%, which are virtually absent from bordering populations, suggesting that the male descendants of Genghis Khan, or other Mongols, were accompanied by women of East Asian ancestry.

 

Modern Hazaragi contains a number of Mongolic words.Over time the Mongolian language has died out in Afghanistan as living language amongst the Hazara people. Hazaragi is (ultimately) a dialect of the Persian language, with loanwords borrowed from Mongolic. Until recently, a very small number of Hazara near Herat still spoke the Moghol language, a Mongolic language once spoken by rebels against the Mongol armies of the Il-Khanat.

 

Like I said it would be a huge mistake to group an awfully diverse ethnic group  in one package. There are those with Mongol ancestory (my wife), there are those with Turkic/ish lineages (me), there are Hazaras from Bamyan that are completely different and it were these Hazaras that gave the most fierce resistance to Mongols and injured Changiz Khan himself etc etc.

 

afghanistan_ethnic_mix.jpg

Aimaks were Sunni Hazaras prior to the Sunni Jihad against Shias....so together: Hazaras, Aimaks, Uzbeks, Turkmen etc......makes Afghanistan a Turkic majority country. Pashtun areas are awfully sparsely populated.

 

Aimaks have way more mongolian in their languages than Hazaras....so you see how religion and race has been used to completely change the face & identify of Afghanistan to one being conducive to European politics?.... to this very day?

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Man all I can say is Afghanistan is such a complex place. I have even met some Hazara, who claim to be Seyyed, so it makes sense that Hazaras could have different ancestries like Iranian, Mongol and Turkic, especially when Hazaras are so diverse in appearance, like some have even blue eyes, brown hair and so many other appearances  but there seems to be the common Epicanthic fold eyes in all Hazaras and East Asians.

 

But my question is how did Hazaras come to exist as a unique and separate group of people? They could have been easily called Tajiks? Is it just the appearance that differentiates the two groups, Tajiks and Hazaras? Did some Turko-Mongol tribes happen to be around each other so they ultimately group together and become the Hazara? Its obvious the name Hazara comes from the number hazar, so from what I have heard this denotes to a  military unit of 1000 Mongol soldiers? I still feel the genetics of Hazaras have quite a strong evidence liking them to Mongolia.

 

Afghanistan was just formed as a frontier bordering land to split the Russian and British empires. So, I guess its similar to colonial formed countries in the Middle East, with no attention to the respective ethnic and religious groups in the lands. Afghans should forget about their ethnic and religious differences and try unite and have a shared identity. There was no such thing as Afghanistan close to 500 years ago, it used to all be a bigger country called Khorasan which incorporated modern day countries and provinces, like Iranian Khorasan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Afghanistan. Before the Turko-Mongol expansions 1000 years ago majority of Central Asia, had Iranian tribes but were displaced and became extinct and absorbed by later Turkic and Mongol tribes.

Edited by Zendegi

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@Wahdat,from an anti Iranian site...Afghans also bemoan Iran's past actions in Afghanistan. After the defeat of the Soviet Union in 1989 and the collapse of the subsequent regime in Kabul in the early 1990s, Afghanistan's neighbors -- particularly Iran -- funded, armed, and trained their Afghan proxies to gain regional leverage -- http://www.rferl.org/content/afghanistan-election-abdullah-khomeini-tribute/25411883.html

Please google more for the known fact that Imam Khomeini supported the Hazara but lots of splitted fractions were not able to unite like Lebanese Shia and others did under hezb...but again it's far more complicated in Afghanistan due to tribal structures as well...

Edited by mina313

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Forgive me if I am wrong but genetics and linguistics tell other wise. I am not here to offend or misrepresent any Hazara, but many Hazara I know tell me of how their proud of having ancestry from the Mongols and even have surnames like Changezi, which claim descent from Hulagu Khan's troops. Invading Mongols and Turco-Mongols mixed with the local Iranian populations, forming a distinct group, the modern day Hazara. How is it a big lie, when some Hazaras themselves are promoting this "lie"?

 

From what I have read, I believe the Pashtun tribes forcefully pushed the Hazaras into the interior of Afghanistan. Hazaras have quite an interesting background no doubt and they are just as Afghan and belonging to the land just as any other ethnic group whether it be Pashtun, Tajik, Uzbek, Pamiri or really anyone.

 

There is evidence of both a patrimonial and maternal relation to Mongol peoples of Mongolia. Mongol male and female ancestry is supported by studies in genetic genealogy as well, which have identified a particular lineage of the Y‑chromosome characteristic of people of Mongolian descent ("the Y-chromosome of Genghis Khan"). This chromosome is virtually absent outside the limits of the Mongol Empire except among the Hazara, where it reaches its highest frequency anywhere. These results indicate that the Hazara are also characterized by very high frequencies of eastern Eurasian mtDNAs at 35%, which are virtually absent from bordering populations, suggesting that the male descendants of Genghis Khan, or other Mongols, were accompanied by women of East Asian ancestry.

 

Modern Hazaragi contains a number of Mongolic words.Over time the Mongolian language has died out in Afghanistan as living language amongst the Hazara people. Hazaragi is (ultimately) a dialect of the Persian language, with loanwords borrowed from Mongolic. Until recently, a very small number of Hazara near Herat still spoke the Moghol language, a Mongolic language once spoken by rebels against the Mongol armies of the Il-Khanat.

(salam)

 

Hazaras have been in Afghanistan for over 1000 years. History and historical facts such as the the Buddha of Bamiyan, that were built by the Hazaras during the 6th century testify to this. However during the Chengiz Khan raid, some did settle and thus mixed with Hazaras. Similarly Turks have also mixed with Hazaras. My teacher once told me that the earliest hazaras actually came from China and settled in what is now Afghanistan. 

 

There are those with Mongol ancestory (my wife), there are those with Turkic/ish lineages (me), there are Hazaras from Bamyan that are completely different and it were these Hazaras that gave the most fierce resistance to Mongols and injured Changiz Khan himself etc etc.

Curious to know that how do you know which Hazaras are from Turkish lineage and which are from Mongol ancestory? Do each live in certain places in Hazarajat or what? I always thought that all Hazaras had mixed blood of Turkish and Mongolian. 

@Wahdat,from an anti Iranian site...Afghans also bemoan Iran's past actions in Afghanistan. After the defeat of the Soviet Union in 1989 and the collapse of the subsequent regime in Kabul in the early 1990s, Afghanistan's neighbors -- particularly Iran -- funded, armed, and trained their Afghan proxies to gain regional leverage -- http://www.rferl.org/content/afghanistan-election-abdullah-khomeini-tribute/25411883.html

Please google more for the known fact that Imam Khomeini supported the Hazara but lots of splitted fractions were not able to unite like Lebanese Shia and others did under hezb...but again it's far more complicated in Afghanistan due to tribal structures as well...

Infact, it was Iran who created them as 8 splitted factions initially. It was Shahid Baba Mazari, that eventually united all of them under Hezbe Wahdate Islami, which Iran opposed. 

Edited by SlaveOfAllah14

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The Shahid Mazari that studied in Qum,visited Imam Khomeini several times in Najaf and later his grave?https://lubpak.com/archives/131712/396873_505446152802642_1589882129_n

The 8 factions were there before '79 and Shahid Mazari united them after his return in early 80ies.He had close ties to the leader afaik.

 

Not only Mazari but almost all Hazaras have high respect for Ulema and are deeply religious. Mazari refused to run away like other leaders and walked among people with his bodyguards.....he was caught and brutally killed. Those leaders that ran away today are one of the richest people in the country.

 

Hazaras were often accused of being Mongols. Those that did not believe in race accused them of being Iranian spies. So they were stuck between rock and a hard place at all times.  One of the most fiercest anti-shia-hazara was Ahmad Shah Masoud. He committed unspeakable crimes and massacres against shias.

 

What surprises me is that during his wars against the Shias, he was the bigger recipient of Iranian aid.  After his death, a street in Tehran was named after him. His photo weaved in carpets are being sold in Bazar e Tehran...and all of Iran's major reconstruction aid in Afghanistan are in areas still following him.

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(salam)

 

Hazaras have been in Afghanistan for over 1000 years. History and historical facts such as the the Buddha of Bamiyan, that were built by the Hazaras during the 6th century testify to this. However during the Chengiz Khan raid, some did settle and thus mixed with Hazaras. Similarly Turks have also mixed with Hazaras. My teacher once told me that the earliest hazaras actually came from China and settled in what is now Afghanistan. 

 

Walikum A'salaam Bro,

You'd have to look at before Kushan Empire to see the presence of hazaras in Afghanistan. Your teacher was right they did get into today's afghanistan through today's China but back then China was limited to few eastern provinces and the western parts were inhabited by nomadic turkic tribes like Xianjing of today. We have persian speaking Armenians, arabs, pashtuns, and hazaras are imo persian speaking turks.

Among aimaqs they spoke mughuli upuntill 100 years ago and they sorta stopped to deflect the british sponsored anti-mughul, anti-shia, anti-hazara campaigns.

Curious to know that how do you know which Hazaras are from Turkish lineage and which are from Mongol ancestory? Do each live in certain places in Hazarajat or what? I always thought that all Hazaras had mixed blood of Turkish and Mongolian. 

 

I dont know about each and exact one of them but mostly about Turkmanis and Behsudis and few others. Behsood was a big Mongolian clan in Mongolia. My grandmother is from there. Living between the two clans I see huge differences in culture, discipline, certain food etc. You are right everyone is mixed  at certain point in time but the groups carry on the differences that distinguish one from the other.

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One things for sure Hazara are good people, I've got Hazara friends, however they don't feel safe revealing they are Shi'a and feel if they did they would be discrimnated against

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Not only Mazari but almost all Hazaras have high respect for Ulema and are deeply religious. Mazari refused to run away like other leaders and walked among people with his bodyguards.....he was caught and brutally killed. Those leaders that ran away today are one of the richest people in the country.

 

Hazaras were often accused of being Mongols. Those that did not believe in race accused them of being Iranian spies. So they were stuck between rock and a hard place at all times.  One of the most fiercest anti-shia-hazara was Ahmad Shah Masoud. He committed unspeakable crimes and massacres against shias.

 

What surprises me is that during his wars against the Shias, he was the bigger recipient of Iranian aid.  After his death, a street in Tehran was named after him. His photo weaved in carpets are being sold in Bazar e Tehran...and all of Iran's major reconstruction aid in Afghanistan are in areas still following him.

I don't get it, I know there is some ethnic tension between hazaras, pashtuns and tajiks, but aren't hazaras and tajiks both dari speaking? didn't they both join the Northern Alliance against the fight against the taliban?

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To answer the TS's question i will leave a couple of short paragraph on my thoughts on the issue.

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion based on what i have seen and experienced; Hazaras, regardless of geneology, are some of, if not the msot, dedicated, sincere, down to earth, innocent, religious shias that walk this earth. This is of course generally speaking, as we all know every tribe/race/group has it's bad seeds. Instead of supporting, nourishing and standing by Hazaras, they are often looked past by most shias, which is by far one of the most stupid things we have done and are still doing.

I grew up with Hazara friends, and i know hazaras both here were i live and in my own country. There shouldn't even be a question of whether or not we could form a strong alliance and relationship with them. I have never seen a more mathloom group of people in my lifetime, and for what? Because they dress funny? Because they are underclass? Every shia in the world should kiss the footsteps of the Hazaras that have gone through years of pure trash, by everyone, including fellow shias, and still have not abandoned their faith.

I have had arguments with Hazaras on this site, but i have been misunderstood. One of the main reasons I am an enemy, and believe you me when i say enemy I mean hate, of government officials In my own country that have structured it to only think of national interest, and they succesfully have done so unfortunately, is because they have abandoned the fundimentals of the revolution. Yes, mistakes were made and yes priorities had to be done, but all in all, if the great men that died and gave their blood for this cause were still alive today, these scumbags and excuse of human beings would not be allowed to leave Hazaras in the hands of Russians of Taliban or who ha e you.

If shias truly were shias, meaning shias of Ali they would boycot schools that didnt allow fellow shias to enter, they would make private schools, they would share their bread and fought for their rights to be treated equally if not better. We have one of the best resources of shias in the world, and we trat them like God loves us more than them.

Just recently i had a big fight, i mean to the level that police came, with one embassy official because an Afghan with Iranian passport, which according to law IS iranian, was just being treated like garbage at the counter. We will never see shias prosper until we see eachother as shias and nothing more. Luckily my dad knows the ambassador and the guy is been deported back to Iran. But this happens every day, against turks, lors, arabs, hazaras.

It's just a shame that those who are for this way of thinking a d those who are against it are mixed as one group in the eyes of many.

One things for sure Hazara are good people, I've got Hazara friends, however they don't feel safe revealing they are Shi'a and feel if they did they would be discrimnated against

Can you blame them?

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To answer the TS's question i will leave a couple of short paragraph on my thoughts on the issue.

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion based on what i have seen and experienced; Hazaras, regardless of geneology, are some of, if not the msot, dedicated, sincere, down to earth, innocent, religious shias that walk this earth. This is of course generally speaking, as we all know every tribe/race/group has it's bad seeds. Instead of supporting, nourishing and standing by Hazaras, they are often looked past by most shias, which is by far one of the most stupid things we have done and are still doing.

I grew up with Hazara friends, and i know hazaras both here were i live and in my own country. There shouldn't even be a question of whether or not we could form a strong alliance and relationship with them. I have never seen a more mathloom group of people in my lifetime, and for what? Because they dress funny? Because they are underclass? Every shia in the world should kiss the footsteps of the Hazaras that have gone through years of pure trash, by everyone, including fellow shias, and still have not abandoned their faith.

I have had arguments with Hazaras on this site, but i have been misunderstood. One of the main reasons I am an enemy, and believe you me when i say enemy I mean hate, of government officials In my own country that have structured it to only think of national interest, and they succesfully have done so unfortunately, is because they have abandoned the fundimentals of the revolution. Yes, mistakes were made and yes priorities had to be done, but all in all, if the great men that died and gave their blood for this cause were still alive today, these scumbags and excuse of human beings would not be allowed to leave Hazaras in the hands of Russians of Taliban or who ha e you.

If shias truly were shias, meaning shias of Ali they would boycot schools that didnt allow fellow shias to enter, they would make private schools, they would share their bread and fought for their rights to be treated equally if not better. We have one of the best resources of shias in the world, and we trat them like God loves us more than them.

Just recently i had a big fight, i mean to the level that police came, with one embassy official because an Afghan with Iranian passport, which according to law IS iranian, was just being treated like garbage at the counter. We will never see shias prosper until we see eachother as shias and nothing more. Luckily my dad knows the ambassador and the guy is been deported back to Iran. But this happens every day, against turks, lors, arabs, hazaras.

It's just a shame that those who are for this way of thinking a d those who are against it are mixed as one group in the eyes of many.

Can you blame them?

I guess not, Afghanistan has a WIDE variety of people however it is too my understanding that the Taliban hasn't been defeated and they are slowing rising back into power (Ghani talking to Afghan Taliban and may offer them a place in the government?)

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I guess not, Afghanistan has a WIDE variety of people however it is too my understanding that the Taliban hasn't been defeated and they are slowing rising back into power (Ghani talking to Afghan Taliban and may offer them a place in the government?)

I don't care about afghanistan, i only care about shias having qhairat(honor?) and comming to the full aid of their fellow shias. Every shia home, wether it's bahrani, iranian, turk, iraqi must be open without any expectation to another shia in need. We have abandoned the very pillar that makes this faith what it is.

I feel pride and at the same time sad when i see those who travel to ziyarah of imam hussein or imam ali or imam reza are welcomed with food, clothing, safe harbour, duas and salawats by the inhabitans of that city or road, but at the same time when Hazaras are being slaughtered like animals, or pakistanis being blown to pieces, or Iraqis being raped and beheaded, suddenly we have a job and family to take care of and don't have the resources to aid and protect?

Every person has too first answer Allah one day, then look into Imam husseins eyes and give him their lame excuses, the walk in shame by Fatimah Zahra and explain to her why he/she did nothing for her children(shias)

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I don't care about afghanistan, i only care about shias having qhairat(honor?) and comming to the full aid of their fellow shias. Every shia home, wether it's bahrani, iranian, turk, iraqi must be open without any expectation to another shia in need. We have abandoned the very pillar that makes this faith what it is.

I feel pride and at the same time sad when i see those who travel to ziyarah of imam hussein or imam ali or imam reza are welcomed with food, clothing, safe harbour, duas and salawats by the inhabitans of that city or road, but at the same time when Hazaras are being slaughtered like animals, or pakistanis being blown to pieces, or Iraqis being raped and beheaded, suddenly we have a job and family to take care of and don't have the resources to aid and protect?

Every person has too first answer Allah one day, then look into Imam husseins eyes and give him their lame excuses, the walk in shame by Fatimah Zahra and explain to her why he/she did nothing for her children(shias)

I agree 100% it saddens me to see Shi'as dying everywhere in the world for there belief, they are targetted because they are pretty much minorities ( well expect for Iran ), it's sad to see people cowering out at the time of need when they need help the most aswell, too scared or to help or as you've said have lame excuses.

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I agree 100% it saddens me to see Shi'as dying everywhere in the world for there belief, they are targetted because they are pretty much minorities ( well expect for Iran ), it's sad to see people cowering out at the time of need when they need help the most aswell, too scared or to help or as you've said have lame excuses.

Iran is not a paradise either. Iranians, not all of course, have a long way to go when it comes to founding principals of faith. What is the use of majority being shia when you still see skin color, nationality, tribe, class as a factor.

Go to Iran and see who all the construction workers are. They are 99% afghan. Why? And they are given zero insurance, minimum wage and no security. They work 18 hour shifts with tools from the 1920z. Isn't that targetting minorities?

Try renting an appartment in north Tehran while being a Azeri, they will throw you out of the window if your dialect hints to Azeri.

Try getting a job in khoozestan while being Arab. You won't stand a chance.

So no, Iranian middle class and up have a lot of learning to do.

During the war, it wasn't the middle class or upper class that gave their sons, brothers and fathers. It was the religious underclass. Every interview you see from the soldiers and youth from the war, they introduce themselves as either farmers or some other sub class section. I know this because i half my family from my mothers side are upper class. They didn't even notice that there was a war, they were busy with weddings and gatherings, while sons of farmers were throwing rocks against tanks trying to invade.

What remains from them is just a memory and names of highways, and mothers with no children.

People need to realize that Iran has an i ternal cultural war between the shias and those who are just born shias.

When you see people defending the rahbar or nizam, they do NOT mean the government, they mean the founding Ulama and families that sent their sons to Lebanon when they needed help, sent the little they had to Iraq and still do today( people do not know this, but many iraqi families recieve aid from villages in khoozestan from poor families), they mean those that without question will give their life if Rahbar says so, those families in Sistan that ha e afghan families living in their basement and treat them like families.

Which was my point to start with. If shias actually accepted Hazaras as their brothers and sisters, it would be like dipping hot iron into icewater. Islam is hot iron, no doubt, and unity amongst shias is the icewater that hardens it making it unbreakable.

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Try renting an appartment in north Tehran while being a Azeri, they will throw you out of the window if your dialect hints to Azeri.

 

 

 

I'm sorry but this is simply not true.

 

It is important to denounce prejudice but exaggerating won't do anyone a favor.

 

One quarter of Iran's population speaks Azeri. You can't walk in Tehran for 2 seconds without hearing it. Absolutely no one nowhere in Iran is afraid of speaking Azeri. I know at least ten trillion soosoolis living in North or West Tehran, who are Azeri. Of course there are, proportionally, more of them in the South. But they are all over Tehran and nobody is dumb enough to be so blatantly racist against them. In fact, most fars are afraid of torks. (not out of racist caricature like what happens in the US, but out of effeminate soosooli attitudes toward life in general)

 

Azeris are not an oppressed minority and I want to choke any one of them who tries to act like they are. And I love Azeris, by the way. If I could choose to be from anywhere, it would be torkustan. I love their language and their general attitude towards life. But that doesn't make them an oppressed minority.

 

 

All in all, there is a lot of exaggeration in recent years when it comes to Iranian racism. I'm not saying Iranians are great and all but thanks God in spite of all the different languages and colors and ethnicities there are no tribal wars tearing the country apart. That indicates SOMETHING. Some level of understanding between people. Of course it should be more than just understanding; it should be fraternity and brotherhood and all that... But if Iran was the racist hell hole some people think it is, it would be ablaze.

 

 

 

Re: Hazaras

 

I like Hazaras and the Afghan people in general. All Afghans have suffered in the last 30, 40 years but Hazaras have suffered the most. There are only two Afghans on this website as far as I know. There used to be one more (Ruqayah) but she don't post here no more. As far as I can see, their views do not represent the majority view of Hazaras or Afghans. But I'm not a statistician or anything. I am just saying based on what I have seen. All the Hazaras I have seen in the flesh, love Imam Khomeini. They love Iran, as well, whether they lived good in Iran or not. 

 

My experience could be misleading, I dunno.

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I'm sorry but this is simply not true.

It is important to denounce prejudice but exaggerating won't do anyone a favor.

One quarter of Iran's population speaks Azeri. You can't walk in Tehran for 2 seconds without hearing it. Absolutely no one nowhere in Iran is afraid of speaking Azeri. I know at least ten trillion soosoolis living in North or West Tehran, who are Azeri. Of course there are, proportionally, more of them in the South. But they are all over Tehran and nobody is dumb enough to be so blatantly racist against them. In fact, most fars are afraid of torks. (not out of racist caricature like what happens in the US, but out of effeminate soosooli attitudes toward life in general)

Azeris are not an oppressed minority and I want to choke any one of them who tries to act like they are. And I love Azeris, by the way. If I could choose to be from anywhere, it would be torkustan. I love their language and their general attitude towards life. But that doesn't make them an oppressed minority.

All in all, there is a lot of exaggeration in recent years when it comes to Iranian racism. I'm not saying Iranians are great and all but thanks God in spite of all the different languages and colors and ethnicities there are no tribal wars tearing the country apart. That indicates SOMETHING. Some level of understanding between people. Of course it should be more than just understanding; it should be fraternity and brotherhood and all that... But if Iran was the racist hell hole some people think it is, it would be ablaze.

Re: Hazaras

I like Hazaras and the Afghan people in general. All Afghans have suffered in the last 30, 40 years but Hazaras have suffered the most. There are only two Afghans on this website as far as I know. There used to be one more (Ruqayah) but she don't post here no more. As far as I can see, their views do not represent the majority view of Hazaras or Afghans. But I'm not a statistician or anything. I am just saying based on what I have seen. All the Hazaras I have seen in the flesh, love Imam Khomeini. They love Iran, as well, whether they lived good in Iran or not.

My experience could be misleading, I dunno.

I'm sorry, but it simply is true. My father worked as a construction engineer in Iran for many years, and my uncle and both his sons are real estate brokers in niyavaran area. I didn't say Iran, i said north Tehran. My point was, it's BS and it happens. 90% of the azeris that don't live in Azarbaijan live in tehran, and it is well known that they are made fun of. It's almost futile to pretend it doesn't happen. South tehran however is different, they own half the bazaar.

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