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In the Name of God بسم الله

Debate Invitation

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faridov

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Alsalam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

I'm sure that many of you by know have noticed that the debate between me and Abu Hadi has ended.

For those that are not aware of it, you can find it here:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235030534-debate-on-imamah-on-shiachat/

Abu Hadi, may Allah bless his heart, was one of the few with courage to accept to debate me on the topic of the Imamah of the Twelve. Unfortunately, we could not come to terms and after 56 posts, we both decided that it was best to call an end to it.

I thereby extend this debate invitation to the rest of my brothers here on Shiachat. Please prove to me that I am supposed to follow the Twelve Imams that you choose to follow.

My conditions are the same as they were in the past.

- It is a one on one debate.

- I do not require a moderator to approve of my posts.

- The topic is not to be changed to the Imamah of Ali, since I concede this point, for the debate is about the Imamah of the rest of the Imams.

- Any challenger will need an endorsement of two moderators. This rule extends to moderators and admins as well, for they will need two endorsements too.

The debate will take place on Shiachat.

Jazakum Allah khairan on your patience and may Allah guide us all.

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Alsalam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

I'm sure that many of you by know have noticed that the debate between me and Abu Hadi has ended.

For those that are not aware of it, you can find it here:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235030534-debate-on-imamah-on-shiachat/

Abu Hadi, may Allah bless his heart, was one of the few with courage to accept to debate me on the topic of the Imamah of the Twelve. Unfortunately, we could not come to terms and after 56 posts, we both decided that it was best to call an end to it.

I thereby extend this debate invitation to the rest of my brothers here on Shiachat. Please prove to me that I am supposed to follow the Twelve Imams that you choose to follow.

My conditions are the same as they were in the past.

- It is a one on one debate.

- I do not require a moderator to approve of my posts.

- The topic is not to be changed to the Imamah of Ali, since I concede this point, for the debate is about the Imamah of the rest of the Imams.

- Any challenger will need an endorsement of two moderators. This rule extends to moderators and admins as well, for they will need two endorsements too.

The debate will take place on Shiachat.

Jazakum Allah khairan on your patience and may Allah guide us all.

None of them will debate you, not even their heavy weights.  What they like to do is pray on the weak minded Muslims, those who don't know their deen or aqeeda.  Those ppl they will gang up on and debate day and night but they will never debate anyone they know has knowledge regarding their beliefs.

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None of them will debate you, not even their heavy weights.  What they like to do is pray on the weak minded Muslims, those who don't know their deen or aqeeda.  Those ppl they will gang up on and debate day and night but they will never debate anyone they know has knowledge regarding their beliefs.

 

I think that's an unfair generalisation. I hardly ever see our "heavy weights" post on the Shia/Sunni discussion forum, if they do post on the forum, the reason is (most of the time) to reply to misconceptions regarding tashayyu, not to actually debate Sunnism.

 

Well at least that's the case nowadays, I think.

Edited by al-Ibrahimi
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None of them will debate you, not even their heavy weights.  What they like to do is pray on the weak minded Muslims, those who don't know their deen or aqeeda.  Those ppl they will gang up on and debate day and night but they will never debate anyone they know has knowledge regarding their beliefs.

There is debating and then there is being a slimy worm, no body wants to try catching a slimy worm.

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None of them will debate you, not even their heavy weights.  What they like to do is pray on the weak minded Muslims, those who don't know their deen or aqeeda.  Those ppl they will gang up on and debate day and night but they will never debate anyone they know has knowledge regarding their beliefs.

 

Alsalam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

I'm sure that many of you by know have noticed that the debate between me and Abu Hadi has ended.

For those that are not aware of it, you can find it here:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235030534-debate-on-imamah-on-shiachat/

Abu Hadi, may Allah bless his heart, was one of the few with courage to accept to debate me on the topic of the Imamah of the Twelve. Unfortunately, we could not come to terms and after 56 posts, we both decided that it was best to call an end to it.

I thereby extend this debate invitation to the rest of my brothers here on Shiachat. Please prove to me that I am supposed to follow the Twelve Imams that you choose to follow.

My conditions are the same as they were in the past.

- It is a one on one debate.

- I do not require a moderator to approve of my posts.

- The topic is not to be changed to the Imamah of Ali, since I concede this point, for the debate is about the Imamah of the rest of the Imams.

- Any challenger will need an endorsement of two moderators. This rule extends to moderators and admins as well, for they will need two endorsements too.

The debate will take place on Shiachat.

Jazakum Allah khairan on your patience and may Allah guide us all.

the problem with you sunni brothers is that you would never want to deeply read your texts much less Shai texts.

just take short look at numerous debates have been taken place between your great scholars and shia ones, this is almost always Shia scholars who are criticizing your belief and trying to prove you the reality using your texts. finding the truth even through your Ahadiht and books of history is obvious but you never dare to study it and when some one assumes you are seeking the truth and lists proofs for you, you start derailing the debate instead of pondering his argument. just please reread what toke place between you and brother Abu-hadi.

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I think that's an unfair generalisation. I hardly ever see our "heavy weights" post on the Shia/Sunni discussion forum, if they do post on the forum, the reason is (most of the time) to reply to misconceptions regarding tashayyu, not to actually debate Sunnism.

 

Well at least that's the case nowadays, I think.

My apologizes for generalizing but it seems brother faridov is ready to debate anyone of you who is willing to step forward.  Also most sunnis I know avoid this site altogether.  Sunnis like me are here out of sincere curiosity and to understand mainstream 12er shia beliefs.  I hate to say it but I dislike the 12er shia more now then I did before I started coming to this site :( .  This dislike is a matter of extremes in the difference in beliefs(not a personal issue), many of the ghulu beliefs I've been told about have been confirmed by some 12er shia on this site.  I remember debating my father, defending 12er shia and arguing for unity, I can't bring myself to doing that today. 

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My apologizes for generalizing but it seems brother faridov is ready to debate anyone of you who is willing to step forward.  Also most sunnis I know avoid this site altogether.  Sunnis like me are here out of sincere curiosity and to understand mainstream 12er shia beliefs.  I hate to say it but I dislike the 12er shia more now then I did before I started coming to this site :( .  This dislike is a matter of extremes in the difference in beliefs(not a personal issue), many of the ghulu beliefs I've been told about have been confirmed by some 12er shia on this site.  I remember debating my father, defending 12er shia and arguing for unity, I can't bring myself to doing that today. 

 

Your choice bro :)

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My apologizes for generalizing but it seems brother faridov is ready to debate anyone of you who is willing to step forward.  Also most sunnis I know avoid this site altogether.  Sunnis like me are here out of sincere curiosity and to understand mainstream 12er shia beliefs.  I hate to say it but I dislike the 12er shia more now then I did before I started coming to this site :( .  This dislike is a matter of extremes in the difference in beliefs(not a personal issue), many of the ghulu beliefs I've been told about have been confirmed by some 12er shia on this site.  I remember debating my father, defending 12er shia and arguing for unity, I can't bring myself to doing that today. 

Why is Ghuluw making you hate Shias? We are not Ghulat.

 

You should realize that many of the Mo'mineen are Mushrik, so have some mercy on your Muslim brothers.

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2. It is only new posters and those who have a history of misconduct whose posts need to be pre-approved. I don't think that yours do.

 

They were posting in the Thinkers' Discourse Forum, so Farid's posts needed moderator approval every time.

Edited by al-Ibrahimi
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My apologizes for generalizing but it seems brother faridov is ready to debate anyone of you who is willing to step forward. Also most sunnis I know avoid this site altogether. Sunnis like me are here out of sincere curiosity and to understand mainstream 12er shia beliefs. I hate to say it but I dislike the 12er shia more now then I did before I started coming to this site :( . This dislike is a matter of extremes in the difference in beliefs(not a personal issue), many of the ghulu beliefs I've been told about have been confirmed by some 12er shia on this site. I remember debating my father, defending 12er shia and arguing for unity, I can't bring myself to doing that today.

You sound all confused to me. This is what happens when you try to get to know and understand something but half heartedly/not with an open mind and a clear heart or through wrong means.

If a non Muslim wanted to get to know Islam and the Muslims through terrorist activities carried out by Muslims, through the bitter part of Islamic history or everything has to be in writing and in black and white where one doesn't have to bother with sense and logic and doesn't consider aqal and daleel otherwise it is unacceptable then they will not get a good picture about Islam.

If you want to learn about Islam then go in to Islamic literature and texts with and open mind and a clear heart and that is not it. Sense and logic, dalail and many other things play a role in this. The same applies to Shiaism.

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I could debate you on the Imamah of the Twelve using heavy qiyas but I'm sure you wouldn't like that.

 

I would only use qiyas and aql and little to no hadith except the Quran itself.

 

Then again I prefer to make a topic on it than to debate with you. And I shall make that topic soon God willing.

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The problem with Shia is that they have no ilm e rijal.Khamenei admits that all Shia rijal books are corrupted. They mostly rely on the verdict of Sunni muhadith and pick and twist the Sunni hadith to get an aqeeda.

 

So for them it is very difficult to debate a Rijalist when Kulyani not even mentions the name of narrators but call them a group of narrators.

  

ATHNAASHRI FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO PRODUCE A SAHI HADITH BECAUSE A SAHI HADITH FOR THEM IS ONE WITH ALL NARRATORS IMAMI.

 

With narrations in which all narrators are donkey, Shia have a tough time defending their hadith.

الكافي للكليني (329 هـ) الجزء 1 صفحة 237 ما عند الأئمة من سلاح رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) ومتاعه

وروي أن أمير المؤمنين ع قال: إن ذلك الحمار كلم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله فقال: بأبي أنت وأمي إن أبي حدثني عن أبيه عن جده عن أبيه أنه كان مع نوح في السفينة فقام إليه نوحفمسح على كفله ثم قال: يخرج من صلب هذا الحمار حمار يركبه سيد النبيين وخاتمهم فالحمد لله الذي جعلني ذلك الحمار .

Debate was not about khilafat but about the proof of Imams.Hadi knew that the moment he presented the nas for any Imam, he was in trouble. Because Athna Ashris barely survived when they faced the problem of nominees death, childhood imamat and the next Imam failing to perform the janaza of the dead Imam

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If you're so committed to making da`wa to the Majus, then just start a regular thread and allow anyone to respond.

There are no majoos here. You are all my brothers and I want to share what I believe is true.

Our main difference of opinion is this: You have affirmed the Imamah of Twelve Imams and I do not.

Wallahi if the Twelve were Imams from Allah then it would not be that hard to prove. Truth is clear and falsehood is clear.

Will I be damned on the Day of Judgement because I did not find any evidence for the Imamah of the Twelve?

Most of you joke and taunt, but there are some of you that think: Why aren't they showing him the proof? Why aren't they debating him when we are upon the truth?

I am not asking for evidence of a small matter like the placement of hands in prayer or wiping the feet. If that was our only difference, then we would not be called Sunni and Shias, but we would be one!

I ask for evidence regarding the main foundation of Shiasm: The Imamah of the Twelve. You should all be stepping up in order to prove me wrong, barak Allah feekum.

Or am I not worth saving because I am not a jahil Sunni? And that only ignorant Sunnis deserve to be guided?

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I ask for evidence regarding the main foundation of Shiasm: The Imamah of the Twelve. You should all be stepping up in order to prove me wrong, barak Allah feekum.

 

Why don't you start a debate to firstly defend your own beliefs before attacking the beliefs of others?

 

First prove to us that Sunnis are right in accepting Abo Bakr, Omer, and Osman and then once you have proven your belief to be correct then we won't have any room for the Imams.

 

How about you put your own belief on the defending side?

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First prove to us that Sunnis are right in accepting Abo Bakr, Omer, and Osman and then once you have proven your belief to be correct then we won't have any room for the Imams.

 

man you maked me laught ! All your imams used to have good relations with first 3 caliphs of Islam. The bloodline of imam jafar has also blood of abu bakr r.a maternally ! So in the link of 12 imams, the last imam will also have that. Then you people have to do hijama of him first ! To spill out that amount of blood, so that he can resurrect him and punish.

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No, because, with all due respect, I have no reason to believe that you are sincere in coming here.

 

Will all due respect, there is no need to attack someone's intention. 

 

 

Quoting you, from the SC chatlog:

 

 

Hani pushed me into it. He said, "he's a mod! Just join!"

I did it for hani

I would have not join if hani didnt insist
I have too much respect for hani to go against his wishes

 

 

So? It doesn't prove anything. Yes, Farid wanted endorsements but Hani said that since Abu Hadi is a mod then do it without asking for endorsements.  I don't know why would you quote this. 

 

I request everyone that Instead of personal attacks - find a knowledgeable Shia to join the debate. 

25_63.png

 

 

Farid should quote this due to all these comments. 

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This is not a scholarly debate at all because of the imbecilic conditions put forward as requirement. Of course, only Imami narrators would have been able to speak of 12 Imams/caliphs/representatives of the Prophet (pbuh). Why would an anti-Imamate person narrate a hadith that legitimized Imamate? Does the opponent's lawyer ever utters anything against their own case? And since centuries, all Sunni sources have undergone heavy censorship. The first Abbassid King Mansur I had burnt hundreds of thousands of hadiths and the surviving minority from the pool is what made it into Sunni "Sahih" books. Even now these books are revised and censored in order to hide the truth. This is a perfectly natural human practice, hiding the truth when knowing it, and that is why Quran warns of it multiple times.

 

So this is rather a publicity stunt than a calling to realize and share the truth.

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