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In the Name of God بسم الله

Debate Invitation

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faridov

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We have some sunnis on this website that are good contributers. But you twelvershia folks come off as a bit desperate. Certainly, there must be better ways of spending your time no? It all just seems very odd to me.

I'm surprised you said that since you must be very well aware of the situation. But on the other hand may be you're not aware otherwise you wouldn't have said it. Those who constantly undermine and attack others either through challenges or through silly accusations, why not advise them of a better way to spend their time. Come off a bit desparate??? What, standing up and defending yourself and belief from constants threats and attacks is coming off desparate??? You must be joking!

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The boys jumping up and down on twelvershia.net index, take a look and you will find that they are surely spending their time in a very lovely and handsome way. Like I said, monkeys high in the tree tops making funny noises and jumping from one place to another. It seems like my three question marks at the end really seems to be bothering them. Well it seems like they haven't fully matured and grown up yet. A little cooperation and commitment from your own kind would be very helpfull but I guess this is something that we have lacked in right from the beginning up till now!

Edited by Ameen
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Salam, all you brothers need to calm down and be serious. Don't be ignorant and getting all emotional.!!! schools of thought= Sunnis teach that you must have respect/manners!... And at the end of the day my response should've been to everyone instead of replying

Thanks ! :-)

The boys jumping up and down on twelvershia.net index, take a look and you will find that they are surely spending their time in a very lovely and handsome way. Like I said, monkeys high in the tree tops making funny noises and jumping from one place to another. It seems like my three question marks at the end really seems to be bothering them. Well it seems like they haven't fully matured and grown up yet. A little cooperation and commitment from your own kind would be very helpfull but I guess this is something that we have lacked in right from the beginning up till now!

ameen behave ! Tally your and my manners first. What did i said wasnt wrong at all ! I dont insults any pious person when i get frustrated like you, by bringing events of safeeqa etc ! 3 caliphs of Islam ruled and are death in their graves, non muslims even knows who ruled and who where first 3 caliphs of Islam and accepts ! Unfortunately not like you people, who are still trying to make death people rulers again. M/s

Stop crying !!! like a lost cause. If you can't put anything constructive forward then please keep your silly and sly comments to yourself. Like I said stay and keep out of it if you can't positively contribute. Where is you learned man??? The elephant that you claim???

crying you mean like you [edited]!

I found one thing ... A Unity broker came inside and disturbed all the unity lovers. And all the unity lovers jumped out and left unity alone.  Those who have aql can catch my point.

[oh really !]

 

Wakeup its 1400+ years passed .. Islam was hijacked just after Prophet (pbuh) left.

 [its made up, was not hijacked !]

Imam Hussain (as) was back stabbed by Kufis .. its truth. No body can deny it, but how many kufis were there in Martyr list ?

 

Imam Hussain (as) reached karbala through which path , How is this possible he reached Karbala only with 72 ? He moved from Madina then mecca and so many cities through out sudia .. No body cares ? ... How is this possible Grand son of prophet (pbuh) moved from huge muslim concentrated cities and no body like to joined him from those areas .. or people find easy to blame Kufis only ?

[20 to 25 thousand sunnis assisted, kufis betrayed ! Persains were mute ! At last 72 close members were left]

 

Amazing .. still people like to challenge there brothers to prove they are better muslim.

it also amazed me !

Shukran

And i would also like to know ! From the brothers who are keen to debate on imamah of 12wers. What good it can bring by proving them mushriks and deviated sect ! It will bring up more jealousy and hatred outside forums too. Again, in my opinion its not worth ! They are deviated but are in folds of Islam, we should be merciful to them, as though we shows aqlaaq to Ahl al'kitab and even idolators ! Try my brothers not to get seperated from each other, our Prophet s.a.w never used to give dawah in such manner !

W/s

and subhan'Allah my posts have been also deleted ! Look what i tried and how you tricked !

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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Al-Hashmi, faridov has accepted the imamate of Ali (as). Would you do the same? In fact I extend my question to all his cheerleaders. Do you also accept the imamate of Ali (as)? If you do so then you automatically condemn Abu Bakr.

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I am surprised you lot haven't given faridov a friendly beheading yet. :p

bro Darth, bro farid would have accepted Ali r.a as 1st caliph or not, i dont know nor i care ! But its trick again what i know.

Nothing is there to get surprised about, what iam doing is for my faith only thats i know ! :-P

love you brother.

Al-Hashmi, faridov has accepted the imamate of Ali (as). Would you do the same? In fact I extend my question to all his cheerleaders. Do you also accept the imamate of Ali (as)? If you do so then you automatically condemn Abu Bakr.

lol that was funny scarcasm ! ?¿¿¿?

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How many times would you like Imamath to be proven from the Quran? And how many times are your kind going to run away and start another thread based on another topic?

 

 

Talking about manners. I never runned away,

 

In this blessed time, begining of Ramadan, I am ready to make mubahila with you, that THERE IS NO SINGLE PROOF IN THE QURAN for Imamate of 12 Imams.

 

Ya Rahman! Ya Rahim. I say: There is no single proof for Imamate of 12 Imams - ALL TOGETHER - in the Quran. There is no single verse which makes us believe that we supposed to believe in the Ali, Hasan, Husayn, Ali, Muhammad, Jafar and till the Mahdi, ALL TOGETHER! Even if we accept all shia reasoning by Quran, your proofs can be used for maximum of Imamate of Ali and love for his family. 

 

Ayah Wilayah? Fine, let us  accept that Ali gave his ring to beggar during the prayer. Let us accept that this mean He supposed to be first Imam of this nation. Where the proof for Imamate of rest in this verse? Where the proof that sons of Husayn will be Imams and sons of Hasan would not? 

Ayah Ahlalbayt? Ok. We can accept that this verse was revealed ONLY about family of Ali and even we can accept this means they were masoom. Where the proof for Imamate of Musa ibn Jafar in this verse?

 

Basically as I said there is no any vese in the Quran which can be used as a proof for Imamate of ALL 12 IMAMS. 

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Talking about manners. I never runned away,

In this blessed time, begining of Ramadan, I am ready to make mubahila with you, that THERE IS NO SINGLE PROOF IN THE QURAN for Imamate of 12 Imams.

Ya Rahman! Ya Rahim. I say: There is no single proof for Imamate of 12 Imams - ALL TOGETHER - in the Quran. There is no single verse which makes us believe that we supposed to believe in the Ali, Hasan, Husayn, Ali, Muhammad, Jafar and till the Mahdi, ALL TOGETHER! Even if we accept all shia reasoning by Quran, your proofs can be used for maximum of Imamate of Ali and love for his family.

Ayah Wilayah? Fine, let us accept that Ali gave his ring to beggar during the prayer. Let us accept that this mean He supposed to be first Imam of this nation. Where the proof for Imamate of rest in this verse? Where the proof that sons of Husayn will be Imams and sons of Hasan would not?

Ayah Ahlalbayt? Ok. We can accept that this verse was revealed ONLY about family of Ali and even we can accept this means they were masoom. Where the proof for Imamate of Musa ibn Jafar in this verse?

Basically as I said there is no any vese in the Quran which can be used as a proof for Imamate of ALL 12 IMAMS.

Salam, now that's interesting!
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Thanks ! :-)

ameen behave ! Tally your and my manners first. What did i said wasnt wrong at all ! I dont insults any pious person when i get frustrated like you, by bringing events of safeeqa etc ! 3 caliphs of Islam ruled and are death in their graves, non muslims even knows who ruled and who where first 3 caliphs of Islam and accepts ! Unfortunately not like you people, who are still trying to make death people rulers again. M/s

crying you mean like you MOROUN !

it also amazed me !

Shukran

and subhan'Allah my posts have been also deleted ! Look what i tried and how you tricked !

Behave??? That's something you and your boys on twelvershia.net index need to do. Tell your self and them if you're really serious about behaviour. And thanks for calling me Moroun. I can respond ten times better but you know me. That's the difference. I don't make fun of people like you and your kind. Because you have nothing better to do and you know that you're weightless when it comes to any topic and discussion.

Talking about manners. I never runned away,

 

In this blessed time, begining of Ramadan, I am ready to make mubahila with you, that THERE IS NO SINGLE PROOF IN THE QURAN for Imamate of 12 Imams.

 

Ya Rahman! Ya Rahim. I say: There is no single proof for Imamate of 12 Imams - ALL TOGETHER - in the Quran. There is no single verse which makes us believe that we supposed to believe in the Ali, Hasan, Husayn, Ali, Muhammad, Jafar and till the Mahdi, ALL TOGETHER! Even if we accept all shia reasoning by Quran, your proofs can be used for maximum of Imamate of Ali and love for his family. 

 

Ayah Wilayah? Fine, let us  accept that Ali gave his ring to beggar during the prayer. Let us accept that this mean He supposed to be first Imam of this nation. Where the proof for Imamate of rest in this verse? Where the proof that sons of Husayn will be Imams and sons of Hasan would not? 

Ayah Ahlalbayt? Ok. We can accept that this verse was revealed ONLY about family of Ali and even we can accept this means they were masoom. Where the proof for Imamate of Musa ibn Jafar in this verse?

 

Basically as I said there is no any vese in the Quran which can be used as a proof for Imamate of ALL 12 IMAMS.

The problem here and on many other sites is that they want to start a discussion. But as soon at it is started they say their bit then that is it. They don't want to continue it and will derail the discussion by bringing irrelevant bits and pieces in to it and bring the discussion to a halt. This has been discussed many times over and has been derailed many times over.

But here we go again. Is Quran only Shariath for you??? Is Islam only the Quran for you??? To be continued!

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What is Islam??? What is Shariath??? What is Deen??? According to the Ahle Sunnah it is Quran and Sunnah and according to the Ahle Tashayu it is Quran and Ahlul Baith. Please do correct me if I'm wrong. Lets go with the Ahle Sunnah. Now when it comes to discussion why do we limit religion, Shariath to just the Quran??? Why is Sunnah totally disregarded??? Is Sunnah not important and a very valid part and piece of religion, Shariath??? The two go together and stand by and belong together.

You're talking here just like Umar, when he said "Hasbona Kithaballah" meaning "the book of Allah is enough for us". Have you ever properly and seriously pondered over this??? In response to the Prophet (pbuh) Umar said two things;

1, The Prophet has become delarious. 2, The book of Allah is enough for us. Why on earth did Umar make the second statement if he didn't know what the Prophet (pbuh) is going to write??? The second statement of Umar tells you that he knew or at least had some kind of idea about what the Prophet (pbuh) is going to write otherwise he wouldn't have made that second statement.

Umar should have waited if he didn't know what the Prophet (pbuh) was going to write and then made the second statement. But he didn't which clearly tells you that he absolutely knew what was going to happen and was about to be written down because he was very close companion.

The Prophet (pbuh) didn't say and or did things out of the blue and his close companions and aids knew a lot.

Have I not mentioned this repeatedly that the Bible is also the book of Allah and something so important, as the up lifting of Jesus to safety by his Lord and being sent/put in to occultation for a future purpose and mission and you have absolutely nothing in the Bible about it. Not even a sign or a slightest hint. Bro doesn't this tell you anything??? Doesn't this move you or at least make you think???

Edited by Ameen
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Surah Al Ma'idah, verse 3;

This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion"

Above was the last verse to be revealed. What exactly was that day??? What happened on that day??? Three things took place on that day;

1, Religion was perfected. (It most certainly wasn't before what ever happened on that day).

2, Favours were completed. (On this day Allah did his last and final favour on us, what ever that was).

3, Islam was approved. (On this day Islam was approved by what ever happened on this day).

You have three things here; 1, Perfection. 2, Completion. 3, Approval.

Now my question to all of you (especially brother Farid) is that what the hell happened on that day and because of that incident/event Islam was perfected for us, Allah's favours upon us were completed and Islam was finally approved by what ever happened on this day??? It surely must have been one hell of an important incident/event that without it Islam is not perfected, Allah's favours upon us fall short and Islam is not approved at all. What was it and why the hell do we not have it in the Quran in black and white, word to word???

Bro Farid, are you any where near??? My brother Al Hashim, may be you would like to make a positive contribution here for the first time??? Or as one of the admins said "there are some Sunnis here who contribute positively" may be they would like to tell me what exactly happened on that day that without that Islam is not perfected, favours are not completed and Islam isn't approved at all.

What ever happened on that particular day, what ever incident/event took place, surely it must have been that important otherwise God wouldn't have made it sound that serious. Really serious! Bloody serious! Now if it was that serious why did't Allah just come out with it and mention it in the Quran in black and white and word to word???

Answer, it is not necessary that everything is or has to be in the Quran in black and white and word to word. Quran alone is not Islam. Quran alone is not Shariath. I hope that my words and statements are not twisted and turned and given a wrong meaning deliberately and intentionally by some of my brothers, as they are mentioning on Twelvershia.net index that, astaghfirullah, I called Quran meaningless and or useless. Astaghfirullah min haza, nausobillah min zalik.

Edited by Ameen
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Ya Ameen, same old tricks as usual. 

 

Trying to change the way of talk once feel cornered. I seen this million times.

 

What is Islam??? What is Shariath??? What is Deen??? According to the Ahle Sunnah it is Quran and Sunnah and according to the Ahle Tashayu it is Quran and Ahlul Baith. Please do correct me if I'm wrong. Lets go with the Ahle Sunnah. Now when it comes to discussion why do we limit religion, Shariath to just the Quran??? Why is Sunnah totally disregarded??? Is Sunnah not important and a very valid part and piece of religion, Shariath??? The two go together and stand by and belong together.

 

 

Azizi, yes Islam is Quran and Sunnah.

 

But when brother Farid asked to proof Imamate of 12 from ahadeth, you guys failed. You said then it was prooved by Quran already.

I am asking where in Quran. You telling me now, why to limit ourself to Quran? Man you cannot be serious.

 

But to close your arguments once and forever. I will paraphrase:

 

There is no single proof for Imamate of 12 Imams - ALL TOGETHER - in the Quran or Sunnah. There is no single verse which makes us believe that we supposed to believe in the Ali, Hasan, Husayn, Ali, Muhammad, Jafar and till the Mahdi, ALL TOGETHER! Even if we accept all shia reasoning by Quran and Sunnah, your proofs can be used for maximum of Imamate of Ali and love for his family. 
 
Ayah Wilayah? Fine, let us  accept that Ali gave his ring to beggar during the prayer. Let us accept that this mean He supposed to be first Imam of this nation. Where the proof for Imamate of rest in this verse? Where the proof that sons of Husayn will be Imams and sons of Hasan would not? 
Ayah Ahlalbayt? Ok. We can accept that this verse was revealed ONLY about family of Ali and even we can accept this means they were masoom. Where the proof for Imamate of Musa ibn Jafar in this verse?

Hadih Ghadir!? Ok, we accept this as proof for Imamate of Ali, where the proof in this hadith for rest Imams? Hadith Manzilah, fine Ali in accordance to this report first Imam of this nation. Where the proof for rest Imams? 

 

Basically as I said there is no any verse in the Quran or report in Sunnah Saheeha which can be used as a proof for Imamate of ALL 12 IMAMS.

 

 

 

I say: WAllahi! Our Allah didn't mention faith in 12 Imams, didn't make this clear in Quran! No verse, nothing! And what you do? Drive the topic to Umar and "enough for us Quran" words.  Guys, you know how weak you appear to us? 

 

 

 

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Ya Ameen, same old tricks as usual. 

 

Trying to change the way of talk once feel cornered. I seen this million times.

 

 

Azizi, yes Islam is Quran and Sunnah.

 

But when brother Farid asked to proof Imamate of 12 from ahadeth, you guys failed. You said then it was prooved by Quran already.

I am asking where in Quran. You telling me now, why to limit ourself to Quran? Man you cannot be serious.

 

But to close your arguments once and forever. I will paraphrase:

 

 

 

I say: WAllahi! Our Allah didn't mention faith in 12 Imams, didn't make this clear in Quran! No verse, nothing! And what you do? Drive the topic to Umar and "enough for us Quran" words.  Guys, you know how weak you appear to us?

Same old tricks??? Come on man, it seems like same old techniques and tactics from you and your kind. It sounds like I am speaking and talking to someone who doesn't really want to know and learn anything. Again, nothing in the Quran. My dear are you even paying attention and listening to what I have said??? If you were then you wouldn't be repeating yourself and being stuck on the statement "well there is nothing in the Quran". I don't think you want to move on.

My dear I have already told you that you won't have everything in the Quran just as you don't have everything in the previous three books. Now be a nice gentlemen, don't duck and dive and don't hide behind and get yourself stuck by this statement,

"Well why isn't it in the Quran, there is nothing in the Quran".

Can you prove to the Christians that Jesus wasn't crucified and him being in occultation from the Bible??? Are you even listening??? Are you even interested in what you have asked for and the challenge that you put forward???

Three things happened on that day; perfection, completion and approval. What was that day??? What happened on that day??? Do we have the interest to recall the incidents and events that took place on that day??? There is nothing exact in the Quran about it but bro your religion isn't perfect without it neither is your religion complete without it nor will it be approved without it.

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I say: WAllahi! Our Allah didn't mention faith in 12 Imams, didn't make this clear in Quran! No verse, nothing! And what you do? Drive the topic to Umar and "enough for us Quran" words.  Guys, you know how weak you appear to us? 

 

 

Since burning books, re-editing them, destroying buildings and other aspects of the historical record (both historically and in the present day) has been associated with people who do not believe in Imamat, don't you think it was rather important for the Qu'ran's survival that it was not explicit?

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If you have the interest and will, which I think you and your kind don't, then take this discussion forward. All you are doing and have done is, you've got your gear stick in reverse and you just want to leave it there.

Bro answer my questions and take this discussion forward. Anyone can join in. There is no need for any publicity stunt, hoo haa and approval. Lets keep it civilised and respect each other and all contribute towards it in a positive manner and with a pleasant attitude.

We are all brothers and sisters in Islam.

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I never accepted the appointment of Ali. Re-read the debate.

brother iam aware ! He just cracked a silly joke.

Ya Ameen, same old tricks as usual.

[lol !]

Trying to change the way of talk once feel cornered. I seen this million times.

Azizi, yes Islam is Quran and Sunnah.

But when brother Farid asked to proof Imamate of 12 from ahadeth, you guys failed. You said then it was prooved by Quran already.

I am asking where in Quran. You telling me now, why to limit ourself to Quran? Man you cannot be serious.

[he cannot be serious, and is tricking, its clear !]

But to close your arguments once and forever. I will paraphrase:

I say: WAllahi! Our Allah didn't mention faith in 12 Imams, didn't make this clear in Quran! No verse, nothing! And what you do? Drive the topic to Umar and "enough for us Quran" words. Guys, you know how weak you appear to us?

good efforts brother ! But its waste of time when someone is not serious, and not trying to put evidences forth ! After all in Ramadhan shedule, its improper.

Edited by Al Hashmi
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Salam. I admit there is no mention of names of the 12 imams in the holy Quran. but that does not disprove the imamate of the 12 imams concept. majority of the sunnis believe in the return of Jesus (as)  and imam mahdi (as) but this is not at all mentioned in the quran. Also there are many other fundamentals we believe that are not explicit either However just like paying zakat order is given but it is not specified how much it is. same with other orders like prayers, hajj etc...you have to refer to the sunnah for them. similarly the order to obey those in authority (Quran 4:59) is given but not specified. the holy prophet mentioned who those in authority are. so we have to follow the the holy prophet (s)  if we truly love Allah (Quran 3:31) to get the details. 

 

futhermore, i don't know why the sunnis are jumping up and down as they themselves don't know much about the hadith of the 12 imams. Grand Sunni Scholar Ibn Hajar al- Asqalani says about the 12 imam hadith: "No one has much knowledge about this particular hadith of Sahih Bukhari." Another Sunni Scholar al-Suyuti says about this hadith of the 12 imams: "There are only twelve Caliphs until the Day of Judgement. And they will continue to act on truth, even if they are not continuous" .Sunnis themselves are confused about this hadith according to their big scholars. So until they can come up with some sort of conclusive proof regarding this hadith, its better that they should not debate this matter with the shias. whether we are right or wrong they cant judge our position because they have no standard to judge us about this issue.

 

this has been a distraction from day one by farid to deny more pressing matters (such as the ones i mentioned in post 49). instead he has wasted your time and playing these silly mind games as he knows we cant win just by proving the 12 imams explicitly just from sunnis books. i can't believe you lot fell for this.

Edited by goldenhawk
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brother iam aware ! He just cracked a silly joke.

good efforts brother ! But its waste of time when someone is not serious, and not trying to put evidences forth ! After all in Ramadhan shedule, its improper.

I am serious and I have always been, where others have mocked and taken the mick. But anyways, my questions and points are there for you guys to answer and understand and to take forward. But your just time wasters!

Salam. I admit there is no mention of names of the 12 imams in the holy Quran. but that does not disprove the imamate of the 12 imams concept. majority of the sunnis believe in the return of Jesus (as) and imam mahdi (as) but this is not at all mentioned in the quran. Also there are many other fundamentals we believe that are not explicit either However just like paying zakat order is given but it is not specified how much it is. same with other orders like prayers, hajj etc...you have to refer to the sunnah for them. similarly the order to obey those in authority (Quran 4:59) is given but not specified. the holy prophet mentioned who those in authority are. so we have to follow the the holy prophet (s) if we truly love Allah (Quran 3:31) to get the details.

futhermore, i don't know why the sunnis are jumping up and down as they themselves don't know much about the hadith of the 12 imams. Grand Sunni Scholar Ibn Hajar al- Asqalani says about the 12 imam hadith: "No one has much knowledge about this particular hadith of Sahih Bukhari." Another Sunni Scholar al-Suyuti says about this hadith of the 12 imams: "There are only twelve Caliphs until the Day of Judgement. And they will continue to act on truth, even if they are not continuous" .Sunnis themselves are confused about this hadith according to their big scholars. So until they can come up with some sort of conclusive proof regarding this hadith, its better that they should not debate this matter with the shias. whether we are right or wrong they cant judge our position because they have no standard to judge us about this issue.

this has been a distraction from day one by farid to deny more pressing matters (such as the ones i mentioned in post 49). instead he has wasted your time and playing these silly mind games as he knows we cant win just by proving the 12 imams explicitly just from sunnis books. i can't believe you lot fell for this.

Nicely said and very well put forward. But certain people will still stick to the arrogant and confrontational stance.

Generally Farid is a nice guy. He wanted to discuss the infallibility of the Prophet (pbuh) that, Shias believe Muhammad (pbuh) wasn't infallible and I didn't know much about Shiaism. He wanted to discuss this in private and that's what we did. After a while the discussion came to a halt because he really didn't want to get involved in to a discussion and avoided to answer my question because he knew that he would get stuck and caught out.

And exactly the same thing is happening here and always happens with certain individuals who threaten and challenge then boast and brag about it. They refuse to get in to a discussion because they don't have the intention from the start. It's just a publicity stunt by those who know they and their Aqeedah is absolutely false and weak.

The Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah Aqeedah lives and survives on double standards and hypocrisy. The common and average Ahle Sunnah are not aware of this and are kept from the truth and are fed with nonsense and rubbish about Shiaism and Shias in particular.

I was once speaking to a group of individuals who were extremely anti Shia. They just hate our guts right from the very start and everything about us. And you can see their statements live on youtube. But I do agree with what they said and this is what they said;

"We are absolutely clear about our belief and faith and in our thought, opinion and point of view. Our statements are open and we know where we stand and what our position is. The Ahle Tasheyu are exactly the same as us. They are also very clear and open like us, they do not have one foot here and one there and a bit of this and a bit of that in them. But the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah, they are shameless, they are hypocrites. They have double standards and live in this world by saying that we love and respect everybody, we believe in everyone and consider everyone to be pious and good. This is not right. This is hypocrisy and has to do with double standards. You have to be clear about your stance and position and which side you are on and why. You can't have something else on your tongue and something different in your heart. They say one thing but in secret tell and feed something different to their community and the average and common person".

Edited by Ameen
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I'm surprised you said that since you must be very well aware of the situation. But on the other hand may be you're not aware otherwise you wouldn't have said it. Those who constantly undermine and attack others either through challenges or through silly accusations, why not advise them of a better way to spend their time. Come off a bit desparate??? What, standing up and defending yourself and belief from constants threats and attacks is coming off desparate??? You must be joking!

I have no idea what you just said bro....

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The ill-intentions of Farid remind me of the narrations on his type, read and contemplate:

From Imam al-Sadiq (as) who said: "Surely Nuh (as) carried dogs and pigs on his ark, and he did not carry the son of fornication, and the Nasib is worse than the son of fornication." (Kitab al-Mahasin) 

بهذا الاسناد عن محمد بن خالد عن حمزة بن عبدالله عن هاشم بن أبي سعيد عن أبي بصير عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال : إن نوحا عليه السلام حمل في السفينة الكلب والخنزير ولم يحمل فيها ولد الزنا ، والناصب شر من ولد الزنا

From al-Sadiq (as) who said: "The Nasib to us Ahlul Bayt should not care whether he prayed or fasted, or fornicated or committed robbery. For he is in the fire, he is in the fire." (Thawab al-A'mal)
قال الصادق عليه السلام : إن الناصب لنا أهل البيت لا يبالي صام أم صلى ، زنا أو سرق ، إنه في النار إنه في النار 

Edited by Al-Afasy
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Let me jog your memory, this is what you said bro;

#70 repenter

Born With A Vengeance

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Location:Beyn-ul-Harameyn

Posted Yesterday, 05:56 PM

We have some sunnis on this website that are good contributers. But you twelvershia folks come off as a bit desperate. Certainly, there must be better ways of spending your time no? It all just seems very odd to me.

Darth Vader, skamran110, Rasul and 2 others like this Like This

So what is this exactly about bro??? What do you mean???

We Twelver Shia folks come off as a bit desperate???? What do you mean bro???

We have a very lovely brother over at Twelver Shia.net index under the label Imam Ali who claims that,

"Ameen couldn't debate with a school kid".

Well I guess if I am that easy and simple then they shouldn't be hesitant and afraid of me. Bro Imam Ali, change you label because it doesn't suit you.

Here is a reminder again gentlemen;

Surah Al Ma'idah, verse 3;

This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion"

Above was the last verse to be revealed. What exactly was that day??? What happened on that day??? Three things took place on that day;

1, Religion was perfected. (It most certainly wasn't before what ever happened on that day).

2, Favours were completed. (On this day Allah did his last and final favour on us, what ever that was).

3, Islam was approved. (On this day Islam was approved by what ever happened on this day).

You have three things here; 1, Perfection. 2, Completion. 3, Approval.

Now my question to all of you (especially brother Farid) is that what the hell happened on that day and because of that incident/event Islam was perfected for us, Allah's favours upon us were completed and Islam was finally approved by what ever happened on this day??? It surely must have been one hell of an important incident/event that without it Islam is not perfected, Allah's favours upon us fall short and Islam is not approved at all. What was it and why the hell do we not have it in the Quran in black and white, word to word???

Bro Farid, are you any where near??? My brother Al Hashim, may be you would like to make a positive contribution here for the first time??? Or as one of the admins said "there are some Sunnis here who contribute positively" may be they would like to tell me what exactly happened on that day that without that Islam is not perfected, favours are not completed and Islam isn't approved at all.

What ever happened on that particular day, what ever incident/event took place, surely it must have been that important otherwise God wouldn't have made it sound that serious. Really serious! Bloody serious! Now if it was that serious why did't Allah just come out with it and mention it in the Quran in black and white and word to word???

Answer, it is not necessary that everything is or has to be in the Quran in black and white and word to word. Quran alone is not Islam. Quran alone is not Shariath. I hope that my words and statements are not twisted and turned and given a wrong meaning deliberately and intentionally by some of my brothers, as they are mentioning on Twelvershia.net index that, astaghfirullah, I called Quran meaningless and or useless. Astaghfirullah min haza, nauzobillah min zalik.

The boys jumping up and down at Twelvershia.net index, anybody there who has the courage and ability to respond to this??? Come on guys, don't be afraid. Al Hashim, where are you or your learned man????

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(Salam)

 

Honestly,

 

I can't even tell what this thread is about anymore, it's not even a debate. It seems like countless sharp-blades thrashing from the swords of tongues.

Let me tell you what it's about, it's about constant threats and challenges towards Shiaism, the Shias and the Isna Ashar ideology. The constant laughing and mocking of the Isna Ashar sect and their belief. Come on, you know what it's about. They issued a challenge and advertised it and are having a laugh at Twelvershia.net index. By all means they can carry on with what they do best. All I have is put forward a few points and questions and that is all.

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Interesting, so you feel a debate is worthy with these people; merely, because of their usage of constant laughter and mockery?

 

Is the sign of well-learned individual laughter and mockery? What do you hope to gain by debating such an individual? I assure you, someone who is laughing and overtly using gheeba is not listening.

Edited by AhlulBayt_313
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^Whatever !

The ill-intentions of Farid remind me of the narrations on his type, read and contemplate:

From Imam al-Sadiq (as) who said: "Surely Nuh (as) carried dogs and pigs on his ark, and he did not carry the son of fornication, and the Nasib is worse than the son of fornication." (Kitab al-Mahasin) 

بهذا الاسناد عن محمد بن خالد عن حمزة بن عبدالله عن هاشم بن أبي سعيد عن أبي بصير عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال : إن نوحا عليه السلام حمل في السفينة الكلب والخنزير ولم يحمل فيها ولد الزنا ، والناصب شر من ولد الزنا

From al-Sadiq (as) who said: "The Nasib to us Ahlul Bayt should not care whether he prayed or fasted, or fornicated or committed robbery. For he is in the fire, he is in the fire." (Thawab al-A'mal)

قال الصادق عليه السلام : إن الناصب لنا أهل البيت لا يبالي صام أم صلى ، زنا أو سرق ، إنه في النار إنه في النار[‏font]

This is what i liked ! It touched my heart. Can you plz post such hadiths more !

Thanks

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Salam. I admit there is no mention of names of the 12 imams in the holy Quran.

 

this is harsh reality which every 12rs should accept it

 

but that does not disprove the imamate of the 12 imams concept.

 

no doubt some Quranic verses which have been interpreted of each sect (according to their madhab) should not impose on others, the issue arises when 12rs try to claim and prove their 12rs imamat from sunni source which they are not capable of neither they can do..

 

 

majority of the sunnis believe in the return of Jesus (as)  and imam mahdi (as) but this is not at all mentioned in the quran. Also there are many other fundamentals we believe that are not explicit either

 

believing in both are not part of our asool e deen neither we ever claim that these things are clearly mentioned in the holy Quran,

 

 

However just like paying zakat order is given but it is not specified how much it is. same with other orders like prayers, hajj etc...you have to refer to the sunnah for them.

 

 

fundamental part of Islam like Salah, zakah, and Hajj are cleary mentioned in the holy Quran, so as those names should also be clearly mentioned if it is fundamental part of our deen.

 

 

similarly the order to obey those in authority (Quran 4:59) is given but not specified. the holy prophet mentioned who those in authority are. so we have to follow the the holy prophet (s)  if we truly love Allah (Quran 3:31) to get the details.

 

 

agreed, and as i said earlier scholars have interpreted verses according to their own sects.. we have no objection if any 12rs claim that imamat is mentioned in shia books, the objection comes when 12rs quote the sunni interpretation to prove their claim..

 

 

futhermore, i don't know why the sunnis are jumping up and down as they themselves don't know much about the hadith of the 12 imams. Grand Sunni Scholar Ibn Hajar al- Asqalani says about the 12 imam hadith: "No one has much knowledge about this particular hadith of Sahih Bukhari." Another Sunni Scholar al-Suyuti says about this hadith of the 12 imams: "There are only twelve Caliphs until the Day of Judgement. And they will continue to act on truth, even if they are not continuous" .Sunnis themselves are confused about this hadith according to their big scholars. So until they can come up with some sort of conclusive proof regarding this hadith, its better that they should not debate this matter with the shias. whether we are right or wrong they cant judge our position because they have no standard to judge us about this issue.

 

we are never confused about this hadith, surprising fact is 12rc quote this hadith every time to prove their concept of imamat.. y shia never quote their own authentic hadith on the subject (if have) to prove their claim.. AFA this hadith is concerned, if you read our books with open mind, u will easily find name of these people in our hadith books, so  by referring this hadith, ur argument becomes v weak in order to prove your claim

 

 

this has been a distraction from day one by farid to deny more pressing matters (such as the ones i mentioned in post 49). instead he has wasted your time and playing these silly mind games as he knows we cant win just by proving the 12 imams explicitly just from sunnis books. i can't believe you lot fell for this.

 

isnt funny that many days have been past since this challenge has been given and no knowledgeable shia come forward to prove his fundamental concept from sunni books.. in other words you are agreed upon that shias can not prove their imamat(in any case) from our books..

 

what i assume farid intention was not to let down the shias by proving them wrong when they always quote sunni hadith in order to prove their concept, rather thn he wants to give a clear idea for new comers (in islam) who becomes v confuse whenever they read these things on different forums, so via debate purpose was to give them clear understanding of this fact that both shia and sunnis are different madhab, and this thing will lead and help them to chose the right belief.

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Ha!

 

Ahsant bro Muhammed Ali & baradar_jackson (offline).

 

Video is related to the hadith of 12 Khalifah narrated to us through 15 companions, making it mutawatir x3 (5 individuals make it mutawatir). In addition there are more than 100 tabi'een of various chains. So no body doubts this narration, even Ibn Taymiyah.

 

Names of the 12 Imams in Sunni books. This clip also shows how new editions of books (in this case Al Futuhat Al Makiyah by Sheikh al Akbar Ibn Arabi) are tampered with and sections deleted, In this case a whole paragraph is deleted in the new edition of Futuhat citing the names of the 12 Imams and that they are from the sons of Imam Hussein and Seyyidah Fatimah, and not Imam Hassan as some Sunnis claim.

 

The book by Al Sha'rani Al Hanafi, who wrote a summary of Futuhat, and in it he has the full text of the part where Ibn Arabi lists the names of the 12 Imams, including the bit about Imam Hussein being their forefather. He died in 937AH.

 

Sorry videos are in arabic, but tried to summarise quickly.

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