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struggling_On

Interesting Experience ... And Rijah

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Interesting Experience... 

 

I was talking to a sunni about this concept of " Seeking help from prophet(pbuh) and he(pbuh) can't give provide any kind of help as he(pbuh) isn't present on face of earth", I didn't even say some so called followers of ahlulbayt(AS) also believe in this, his Answer was amazing....

 

Sayyyyyid, Stop it please.... !! This is what u r saying is wahabi ideology we have nothing to do with it and we are against it.

 

some sunnies brethren have better understanding of at least prophet hood than many so called followers of ahlulbyat(as).

 

Had Allah not be content in Quran with calling his(pbuh) name and seeking help from him(swt) along with prophet(pbuh) we would have taken what some say seriously.  

 

For some it's all about their personal Ego while ignoring the clear narrations and blaming others of committing shirk and when faced with contradictory ideology and philosophy they wanted to have long debate when they couldn't understand all these issues that they were trying to discuss has already been touched upon in many different posts and threads. But which was never read apparently. Just because they weren't quoted it doesn't mean these concepts weren't discussed. 

 

The hatred we face isn't towards us honestly, it's towards positions and status of prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS) which some can't seem to understand. then saying it's not about that....!! If it was not then why would u have problem seeking help from them, admitting they(AS) appointed and given authority over creation Allah, we never said, they were lord mazzullah just because some can't understand this concept of prophet hood and immaate And like we explained many times this isn't delegation of authority just blessing of Allah upon all his creation.

 

All praise belong to Allah who distinguished ahlulbayt(AS) from rest of his creatures and I would say not accepting Allah's appointed ones, as Allah wanted is problem.

 

 If the prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS) can't help anyone, if this was the case then why Allah appointed them as guardians ?

 

Verily we don't believe in a Guardian that can't help when we seek help.

 

Some say imam(AS) of the time isn't aware of the affairs of our life and doesn't know what's happening with it's people.... Allah o akbur, look at the audacity of people. While knowing he(AS) has full knowledge of the book of Allah. ? if a jin can know more than humans what will be condition of imam ? how faulty is their logic and how little is their knowledge about prophet hood and immate. ie. their position near Allah.

 

 

People have problem understanding these simple concepts, yet they call themselves proudly followers of ahlulbayt(AS).... Inshallah soon this will be over... 

 

But I really liked the following article

 

IMAM ALI (as) IN THE RETURN (RAJ`AH)

 

 

Abu Abdullah (as) said: ‘Rasool-Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå came up to Amir-ul-Momineen (as) and he was in the Masjid, and he (as) had gathered a pile of sand and placed his head upon it. So he Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå moved him with his leg, then said to him (as): ‘O walking creature of the earth!’ So a man from his companions said, ‘O Rasool-Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå! Can some of us name each other by this name?’ So he Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said: ‘No, by Allah! It is only for him especially, and he is the walking creature whom Allah the High has Mentioned in His Book And when the Word shall come to pass against them, We shall Bring forth for them a walking creature from the earth that shall speak to them because people did not have certainty in Our Signs.” (27:82)
Then he Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said: ‘O Ali (as)! When it will be the end of the times, Allah Will Bring you forth in a beautiful form, and with you would be a brand with which you will be branding your enemies’.
So a man said to Abu Abdullah (as), ‘The general Muslims are alleging that His Words “And on the Day when We will Gather from every nation a party” (27:83) it means during the Day of Judgement’. So Abu Abdullah (as) said: ‘Will Allah Gather from every nation a party, and leave the rest? No! But it would be during the Return (الرجعة). And as for the Verse regarding the Day of Judgement, so it is “We will Gather them and leave not any one of them behind.”(18:47)

Sanad: Ali bin Ibrahim said, ‘My father narrated to me, from ibn abu Umeyr, from abu Baseer who narrated the above hadith

Source: Tafseer al-Qummi, Volume 2, Pages 130-131

 

 

Ps.

 

new craze a beautiful recitation in praise of imam ali(AS) with Eng subs.

 

Edited by struggling_On

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You're indirectly talking about me and the likes if me and insulting us as usual, accusing us of hatred of the position of ahlulbayt. Quite an accusation there. And looking down at our knowledge and judging us as ignorant.

Anyway, you still haven't addressed the dozens of Quran verses that the whole world (all Shias and Sunnis) translate the same way into English, as well as a study if the simple straight forward clear Arabic verses . And also the ahadeeth.

Let me remind you that you went on dismissing and insulting us yesterday while admittedly not even reading what was posted.

And here you come with one Hadith that is kind of unrelated and continue your hatred rampage of accusing us of hatred.

I never accused you personally of anything other than facts . Facts like you never actually addressing my proofs and comparing me to Yazid for instance.

Anyway keep on going .. And ignore Quran if you want. The verses that everybody .. All scholars in earth translate the same way. The clear verses containing Allahs Order concerning "duas" to other than Him.

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u posted again...  :wacko:

 

Take a chill pill.... stay away bro. You have ego issues.... may Allah help u and help u get approval from people that you seek !!!  

 

I didn't even mention u just a general bunch of people. i thought it was over between u and I. Don't make it personal...

Edited by struggling_On

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You insult me indirectly .. You better be prepared to struggle on with me

:)

Maybe if you avoid being less offensive I'll get out of your hair

I mean .. Avoid being offensive .. Less emotional insults and accusations of hatred of ahl bayt position .. Which is the same as accusing us of being like yazid. Seems you didn't learn anything yesterday

As long as I'm alive I will always point out when people make sweeping generalizations without use of thaqalayn in islam.

Same goes for insults.

You are already getting personal talking about me having ego issues and wanting attention . That has nothing to do with the topic and simply shows lack of Akhlaq and arrogance. I do this for Allah. You think I like getting attention of people who treat other badly and have a poisonous tongue .. Looking down at everybody on a personal level, who does not agree with them? You must be kidding. I hate this! But Allah said sometimes things we hate are good for us.

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 u r implying that urself, that i'm indirectly referring to u specifically. 

 

if u don't agree with me that's fine, i don't want to debate with you. u can clarify yourself on the other thread... or  then u could have just ignored... or continued in Pms. if u wanted to prove ur points but u just want Public confrontation... such kind of behaviour only end up when one of us don't live any more, so be careful what u r seeking for !!!  

 

If u want to present ur views then make another thread and share it. who is stopping u. u didn't have to post in here.  i wouldn't have posted in them. 

 

Don't assume urself to be such of importance yesterday i was having the discussion with some brothers in chat and we were talking about same things. so it doesn't specify u but an ideology that some people have, i was having similar discussion with two wahabies who wanted to discuss with me using their Quranic interpretation and their narrations talking about same things. 

 

I criticized the ideology not the people who hold them... and i have seen many threads critizing our ideology and linking it to shirk while not understanding it and ignoring many narrations while they themselves have limited Allah in their minds while they don't perceive it. u  never see me posting there.... i rarely post on such things.

 

While whatever i said in general u perceived it that it was intended towards u. u should ask urself why would u think no one else thought the same only you.... ? but i was having discussion with another brother... u popped in no where and assumed everything is referring to you.

 

 

 u r wasting ur time.... and mine as well. go make ur threads and post in them brother.... it's better that way.

Edited by struggling_On

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you know exactly that your initial post on this thread is about me as we spent all night last night talking about this. exactly this issue. and i am obviously one of the people you refer to as:

 

"some sunnies brethren have better understanding of at least prophet hood than many so called followers of ahlulbyat(as)."

 

"For some it's all about their personal Ego" .. this one you even repeated specifically for me in post #3

 

"The hatred we face isn't towards us honestly, it's towards positions and status of prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS)" this one is also obviously in relation to the likes of me, just like when you said that "Yazid also claimed to know quran .. and that manipulation of quran was nothing new" .. in relation to this very conversation on this very subject.

 

anyway, i am different from others. i don't let go easily and i like to comment if i see something clearly wrong, or insulting or zulm.

 

and for your info, again .. i am not writing this to convince you, i am writing this for the sake of Allah. and i don't mind going on for the rest of my life in this, until one of us dies or gets martyred. it's a form of jihad for me. exposing when people make conclusions without base. base is 

 

1 - Quran

 

2- Prophet / ahl  bayt agreed upon narrations

 

____

____

 

anyway, for the reader who wants to know what evidence struggling_On didn't bother to read before dismissing it, and bringing up that "Yazid also claimed to know quran" and that "deliberate manipulation of verses and narrations" was "nothing new" .. and accused us of hatred .. here is the proofs, if anybody interested:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235017372-about-ya-ali-as-madad/?p=2668946

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then why are u posting ? 

 

why do u want confrontation ? what kind of person are u... in ur words u have better ahlaq and manners then why are u posting here... and the same time continuing taking everything personally, like i said i discussed the same things with other people. i explained it here 

 

 u r implying that urself, that i'm indirectly referring to u specifically. 

 

if u don't agree with me that's fine, i don't want to debate with you. u can clarify yourself on the other thread... or  then u could have just ignored... or continued in Pms. if u wanted to prove ur points but u just want Public confrontation... such kind of behaviour only end up when one of us don't live any more, so be careful what u r seeking for !!!  

 

If u want to present ur views then make another thread and share it. who is stopping u. u didn't have to post in here.  i wouldn't have posted in them. 

 

Don't assume urself to be such of importance yesterday i was having the discussion with some brothers in chat and we were talking about same things. so it doesn't specify u but an ideology that some people have, i was having similar discussion with two wahabies who wanted to discuss with me using their Quranic interpretation and their narrations talking about same things. 

 

I criticized the ideology not the people who hold them... and i have seen many threads critizing our ideology and linking it to shirk while not understanding it and ignoring many narrations while they themselves have limited Allah in their minds while they don't perceive it. u  never see me posting there.... i rarely post on such things.

 

While whatever i said in general u perceived it that it was intended towards u. u should ask urself why would u think no one else thought the same only you.... ? but i was having discussion with another brother... u popped in no where and assumed everything is referring to you.

 

 

 u r wasting ur time.... and mine as well. go make ur threads and post in them brother.... it's better that way.

 

. .but u have to refer it to ur self and u refer to ur one posts again and again lol which u just compiled and put everything under wrong headings. U don't even know what have u complied but want be drag in futile debate with you. that's not right... !! 

 

Why have u worry about what struggling on is posting.... ? I don't want people listen to what struggling_on is posting but what Allah and imams(AS) has said about it.

 

Like i said, make ur own thread and spread ur views there.... 

 

how hard is that.... ? 

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I am doing this because Allah dashes the truth against falsehood .. And truth comes out ..

It's not about you and me .. But your insulting post did provoke me to join here.

My Akhlaq, as long as I treat you with respect and respectful words, I can go on in sabeel Allah till I'm dead or martyred.

I want to expose the truth and expose falsehood ..

Sooner or later I'll stop don't worry :) and maybe you'll be around to see it if God wills it.

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So now u have claimed that you have appointed by Allah to dash the falsehood... hmmm, interesting more like Isis ideology to me.

 

then do that on other threads for the seeballah, don't insult the intelligence of people that they won't see what u posted.

 

I'm posting my believes u post ur in ur own threads.... sound fair enough to me.

 Go make another thread and bash my ideologies there. who is stopping u there.

 

False hood will be exposed...

 

Indeed it is as clear as bright sun...!!  

Edited by struggling_On

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indeed some will fell short of their duty towards Janb of Allah i.e imam ali(AS), all praise belongs to Allah who guides some and let other remain in ignorance because of disease in their hearts.

 

People call some commit shirk or some times Ghuluw.. while they themselves have limited Allah in their understanding but they don't perceive it. What serious allegation they make without having any authority. They limited Allah by thinking Allah only have knowledge that he delivered to prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS) apart from that he(swt) has no knowledge. While Allah kept certain knowledge with him and give some to prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS), which no other creation of Allah can perceive but only prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS). While they don't even know what knowledge Allah has given to his(swt) beloved. And which is more than the knowledge of all creations of Allah. Nor anyone can ever perceive it and achieve it.  While Allah can destroy all that he(swt) has given and create everything from start. Majistic is he(swt). He(swt) doesn't need anyone and no one is his partner in this. They limited Allah by thinking Allah can only do what imams(AS) can do with permission of Allah, beyond that Allah can't do anything, while what they perceive is only limited understanding of their minds about Allah. while Allah is great beyond what they perceive him(swt) to be. and but at the same time insult Allah by comparing him(Swt) with his(swt) own creation prophet(pbuh) and ahlulbayt(AS).

 

And it's lack of their lower and defected understanding about greatness of Allah, they lower the status of prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS) so it could fit within their limited understanding about Allah. But Allah is beyond their imaginations and what they perceive.  

 

 

May Allah hasten the re-appearance of Mahdi(AS).


Knowledge of Imams(As) in there own words.... 

 

 

 

Al kafi H 635, Ch. 40, h 1
A number of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ‘Abdallah ibn al- Hajjal from Ahmad ibn ‘Umar al-Halabi from abu Basir who has said the following. "I went to abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) and said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, I like to ask you a question. Is there anyone else in this house who may hear my words?" The Imams (a.s.) then folded the curtain between his room and the other room next to it and looked into it. Then the Imams (a.s.) said, "O abu Muhammad, ask whatever you wish." I said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, your followers say that the Messenger of Allah taught Ali (a.s.) a thousand chapter of knowledge and from each chapter there opens a thousand chapter. I then said, ‘This, I swear by Allah, is knowledge.’" He would mark the ground with his staff (a sign of thinking in normal people) for a while and said, "That is knowledge but it is not that." The narrators has said that The Imam (a.s.) then said, "O abu Muhammad, with us there is al-Jami‘a. What do they know what al-Jami‘ is?" I then asked, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, what is al-Jami‘a? The Imam (a.s.) said, it is a parchment seventy yards by the yards of the Messenger of Allah long that contains his
dictations that is in graved in to with the right hand writing of Ali (a.s.). It contains all the lawful and unlawful and all matters that people need, even the law to of compensation for A number of our people has narrated from scratch caused to a person. He then stretched his hand
to me and asked, ‘May I, O abu Muhammad?’ I then replied, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, I am all at your disposal." He pinched me with his hand and said, "Even there is the law of compensation for this." He seemed angry. The narrator has said, "I then said, "This, I swear by Allah is knowledge." The Imams (a.s.) said, "It certainly is knowledge but not that one."
 
The Imams (a.s.) remained silent for a while and then said, "With us there is al-Jafr (the parchment). What do they know what al-Jafr is? I then asked, "What is al-Jafr (the parchment or a container) ?" The Imams (a.s.) said, "It is a container made of skin that contains the knowledge of the prophets and the executors of their wills and the knowledge of the scholars in the past from the Israelites." The narrator has said that he then said, "This certainly, is the
knowledge." The Imam (a.s.) said, "It certainly is knowledge but not that knowledge." The Imams (a.s.) remained silent for a while and then said, "With us there is the book (Mushaf) of Fatima, (a.s.). What do they know what Mushaf of Fatima is? The Imam (a.s.) said, "Mushaf of Fatima is three times bigger than your Quran. There is not even a single letter therein from your Quran." The narrator has said, "I then said, "This, I swear by Allah, is the knowledge." The Imam (a.s.) said, "This certainly is knowledge, but it is not that." The Imam (a.s.) remained silent for a while and then said, "With us there is the knowledge of
whatever has been and the knowledge of whatever will come into being to the Day of Judgment." The narrator has said that he then said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, this, I swear by Allah is, certainly, knowledge." The Imam (a.s.) said, "It certainly is knowledge but not that." The narrator has said that he then asked, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, What then is knowledge?" The Imam (a.s.) said, "Whatever takes place during the night and during the day, one matter after the other matter and one thing after the other thing to the Day of Judgment."
 
People tell me.... Imams(AS) don't know everything... certainly they don't know which Allah hasn't told them yet....  
 
another narration, 
 
H 639, Ch. 40, h 5
Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Mahbub from ibn Ri’ab from abu ‘Ubaydah who has said that the people from our group asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about Jafr and the Imam (a.s.) said the following. "It is the skin of a bull which is full of knowledge." Then they asked the Imam (a.s.) about al-Jami‘a. The Imam (a.s.) replied, "It is a parchment that is seventy yards long with a width of like that of the leg of a huge camel. It contains all that people may need. There is no case for there is a rule in it. In it there is the law to settle the compensation for a scratch caused to a person." The narrator has said that he asked the Imams (a.s.), "What is Mushaf of Fatima?" The Imam (a.s.) waited for quite a while. Then he said, "You ask about what you really mean and what you do not mean. Fatima (a.s.) lived after the Messenger of Allah for seventy-five days. She was severely depressed because of the death of her father. Jibril (a.s.) would come to provide her solace because of the death of her father. Jibril would comfort her soul. Jibril would inform her about her father and his place and of the future events and about what will happen to her children. At the same time Ali (a.s.) would write all of them down and thus is Mushaf of Fatima (a.s.)."

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So you're allowed to express your beliefs and claim it's truth, but when others do it you claim they are like Isis and should leave the thread like it's your own private house or something. Very interesting .

Here please somebody interpret this verse please:

And that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone. 72:18

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So you're allowed to express your beliefs and claim it's truth, but when others do it you claim they are like Isis and should leave the thread like it's your own private house or something. Very interesting .

Here please somebody interpret this verse please:

And that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone. 72:18

 

We would like to hear your interpretation of the above. 

 

If we pray jamaah in the masjid, is that considered "invoke with Allah anyone", because there is an Imam in the masjid and through that Imam we invoke Allah swt?

Edited by layman

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As continued from Al kafi... 

 

No one claim that he has full knowledge of Quran except ahlulbayt(AS) so only their interpretation is accepted. that's why Allah choose them to be guardian over all of his creations, Because they help because of Divine authority over Allah's creations.

 

 

All those who have read, How the Throne of Queen sheba(Bilqis) was brought by a Jin with blinking of an eye and in Quran Allah(swt) said he only have one part of the book and now imagine those who have whole knowledge of book of Allah, what are they capable of but they(as) aren't Allah mazullah.

 

People continue to amaze me saying imams(AS) can fulful the request of Allah's creations... this concept is against quran and narrations. these narrations will prove only for those who reflect. 

 

 

 

Here are some narrations.... 

 

H 613, Ch. 36, h 1 Al- Kafi
Muhammad ibn Yahya and others have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn al- Hakam from Muhammad ibn al-Fudayl who has said that Shurays al-Wabishi narrated from Jabir from abu Ja‘far (a.s.) who has said the following. "The greatest name of Allah has seventy three letters. There was only of these letters. He spoke that one letter and land between him and throne of the Queen of Sheba (Bilqis) sunk down as such that he could reach her throne with his hand and the land returned to the original state. This happened in a blinking of An eye. Of the greatest name of Allah there are seventy two letters with us. Allah has kept one letter exclusively for Himself in the knowledge of the unseen. There is no means and no power except by the help of Allah, the Most High, the Most Great."
 
and another one... :)
 
H 615, Ch. 36, h 3
 
al-Husayn ibn Muhammad al-Ash‘ari from Mu‘alla ibn Muhammad from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Abdallah from Ali ibn Muhammad al-Nawfali who has said that he heard abu al-Hassan (a.s.) Sahib al-‘Askar say the following.
 
"The greatest name of Allah has seventy three letters. There was only one letter with Asif. He spoke with it and the land between him and the throne of the Queen of Sheba (Bilqis) sunk down as such that he took her throne and placed it before Solomon. The land then came to normal state within less than a blinking of an eye. There are seventy-two of those letters with us. One letter is with Allah which, He has kept it exclusively in the knowledge of the unseen."

 

And just imagine who had one knowledge of letter could that what will who have 72 letter will be capable of doing and fulfilling people's wishes and request are least of their  concern... Haven't people seen the splitting of moon.... ?  And only those who are inspired and guided by Allah go to prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS) as i will post those narrations later on.

 

The Imams (a.s.) do have the knowledge of what was and will be, and that nothing is unknown to them (a.s.)
 
H 678, Ch. 48, h 1
 
Ahmad ibn Muhammad and Muhammad ibn Yahya have narrated from Muhammad ibn al- Husayn from Ibrahim ibn Ishaq al-Ahmar from ‘Abdallah ibn Hammad from Sayf al-Tammar who has said that he with a group of Shi‘a were in the presence of abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) in Hijr and the Imam (a.s.) said the following.
"An eye is watching over us." We then looked right and left and did not see anyone. We said, "No eye is watching over us." The Imam (a.s.) said, "I swear by the Lord of the Ka‘ba. I swear by the Lord of the House." He said so three times. "Had I been with Moses and al- Khidr I would have told them that I had more than they did and would have informed them of what they had no knowledge. This is because Moses and al-Khidr were given the knowledge of what was in the past and they were given the knowledge what will be in future or what will exist up to the Day of Judgment while we have inherited all of them from the Messenger of Allah as heirs."
 
 
And here people come can tell us, prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS) aren't aware of everything... What is everything then ? How do you know which knowledge they don't have... they themselves are saying all the events that will occur till day of judgement they have the knowledge of it. as it was clear from the narrations posted above. and now look at the following narrations.
 
 
Alkafi
H 679, Ch. 48, h 2
A number of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Sinan from Yunus ibn Ya‘qub from al-Harith ibn al-Mughirah and a group of our people, among whom were ‘Abd al-A‘la’, abu ‘Ubaydah and ‘Abdallah ibn Bishr al-Khath‘ami, who have said that they heard abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) say the following. "I certainly know what is the heavens and what is in the earth. I know what is in paradise and what is the fire. I know what was there and what will be there." The narrator has said that the Imam (a.s.) paused for a while and found that what he had just said was much heavy for the audience then he (a.s.) said, "I learned all of it from the book of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, has said, "In it there is the clarification of all things."
 
And people tell us prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS) can't help when you seek help from them !! Allah o akbar, Wallah only those who have sincere hearts are guided towards ahlulbayt(AS) other will die out of jealously.
 
H 680, Ch. 48, h 3, Alkafi
 
Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from Sahl from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Aabu Nasr from ‘Abd al-Karim from Jama‘a ibn Sa‘d al-Khath‘ami who has said that al-Mufaddal was in the presence of abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.). Al-Mufaddal asked the Imam (a.s.) the following. "May Allah, take my soul in service for your cause, does Allah command (his) servants to obey a servant and hide the news of the heavens from him?" The Imam (a.s.) said, Allah is by far much honorable, kind and caring towards His servants than to command them to obey a servant (of His) and then hide form him the news of the heavens mornings and evenings."
 
How can Allah appoint some one as his Divine authority on Earth and not allow to fulfill the hajjat of people or creations over which Allah appointed him ? Allah is all majestic, He is far beyond the imagination of people, because of such limited understanding they lower the status of prophet(pbuh) and ahlulbayt(AS) out of arrogance, ignorance and jealously.
 

As this is in Quran " Your Quardrian is Allah, his prophet(pbuh) and Thos who give zakat while in Raku"

 

Can we not call our guardians.... ? Here it doesn't mean that Allah has delegated the responsibilites mazzuallah and he(Swt) is just sitting back and watching, That's shirk and none of us believe so. Look it this way, the most beloved Creation of Allah is Prophet(pbuh) and Ahlulbayt(AS) Allah is keep giving everything to them first then through them(AS) gives to rest of the creations... And this is ever happening there is no stop in it... Because Allah is Great Beyond Description and his(swt) blessings are constant on ahlulbyat(AS).... 

 

 

 

وُجُوهٌ يَوْمَئِذٍ نَّاضِرَةٌ إِلَىٰ رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ

 

 

(Some) faces on that day shall be bright, Looking to their Lord. (75:22-23)

 

 

What do the Imams  (as) say about this ayah?..

 

There is absolutely no doubt in the Imami school that Allah has no physical form and cannot be seen with the eye. Here is another hadith from the infallible Imams  (as) explaining what it means to see Allah:

 

‘I said to Abu Abdullah  (as), ‘Inform me about Allah Mighty and Majestic. Will the Believers see Him on the Day of Judgement?’ He  (as)said: ‘Yes, and they have (already) seen him before the Day of Judgement’. I said, ‘When?’ He  (as) said: ‘Where Allah Said to them: “Am I not your Lord? They said: Yes! We testify’.” (7:172) Then he  (as) was silent for a while, then said: ‘The Believers are (already) seeing Him in the world, before the Day of Judgement. Do you not see Him at this time of yours?’ Abu Baseer said, ‘I said to him  (as), ‘May I be sacrificed for you, So I should narrate this from you?’ He  (as) said: ‘No, for if you were to narrate it, the denier would deny it, being ignorant of the meaning of what you are saying. Then he will estimate that, that is similar to blasphemy (Kufr), and the visioning with the heart is not the same as visioning with the eyes. Allah is Higher from what the compares and the Atheists describe Him to be’.

 

Source: Al-Tawheed, Sh. Al-Sadooq, Page 117, Hadith #20

 

 Imams(AS) are eyes and face of Allah...so they(as) can't help and listen to people who when call unto them for help against shaytan ? Indeed people have limited Allah with their limited understanding and lowered the status of prophet(pbuh) and imams(AS).

 

and l love this narration from imam ali(AS) that's why posting it again They say we can't call unto him(AS) the helper of anbia ? 

 

Now... Let imam ali(AS) himself describe himself

 

In the Qur’an, Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì says

وَاتَّبِعُوا أَحْسَنَ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ يَأْتِيَكُمْ العَذَابُ بَغْتَةً وَأَنْتُمْ لَا تَشْعُرُونَ. أَنْ تَقُولَ نَفْسٌ يَا حَسْرَتَا عَلَى مَا فَرَّطْتُ فِي جَنْبِ اللَّهِ وَإِنْ كُنْتُ لَمِنْ السَّاخِرِينَ

And follow the best that has been revealed to you from your Lord before there comes to you the punishment all of a sudden while you do not even perceive lest a soul should say: O woe to me! For what I fell short of my duty to (the Side of) Allah (Janb-Allah), and most surely I was of those who laughed to scorn. (Surah Zumar 39:55-56)

 

Imam Sadiq  (as) said, that Ali  (as) said in one of his sermons: “I am the guided one and I am the father of orphans and the destitute and the husband of widows. I am the refuge for every weak one and the fort of safety for every fearful one. I am one to make the believers reach Paradise and I am the firm rope of Allah (Hablulla-ul-Matin) and I am the firmest handle (Urwatul Wuthqa). I am the ‘word of piety’, I am the eyes of Allah, the truthful tongue of Allah and the side of Allah regarding which Allah says: O woe to me! For what I fell short of the side of Allah (Janb-Allah). And I am the hands of Allah that Allah has made wide for His creatures for mercy and forgiveness and I am the gate of repentance ‘Bab-e-Hitta’ for this Ummat.”

 

Source: Ma`ani Al-Akhbaar, Sh. Sadooq, Chapter 13, Hadith #14, Page 18-19 (See Image 1); Al-Tawheed, Sh. Sadooq, Chapter 22, Hadith #2, Page 164-165 

 
(wasalam)
Edited by struggling_On

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Indeed people are un thankful towards the bounties of Allah. This was the reason they didn't and some will never recognize the Ahlulbayt(as), This was the reason imam ali(AS) was left alone while others took over his(as) rights... This was the reasons al hussan(as) and hussain(AS) were left alone in battlefield... Because they never understood the position of imams(AS) and never recognized what a blessing they(AS) for whole man kind. and it's sad to see it continue till today.
 
The Bounty and Blessings that Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High has mentioned in His book, the Holy Quran are the Imams (a.s.)
 
H 570, Ch. 27, h 1 Al kafi
Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad has narrated from Mu‘alla ibn Muhammad from Bistam ibn Murrah from Ishaq ibn Hassa’n from al-Haytham ibn Waqid from Ali ibn al-Husayn al-‘Abdi from Sa‘d al-’Iskaf from al-Asbagh ibn Nubatah from Amir al-Mu’minin Ali (a.s.) who has said the following. "What is wrong with people who changed the Sunnah (traditions) of the Messenger of Allah and deviated from his will? Do they not fear that sever suffering may befall them? He then recited the following verse of the Holy Quran. "Have you not seen (considered) those who changed the blessings (Word) of God through disbelief and led their people to destruction? (14:28). They will suffer in Hell. What a terrible place to stay! (14:29). He then said, "We are the blessings of Allah which He has granted to people. Through us will succeed those will be successful on the Day of Judgment."
 
 
H 571, Ch. 27, h 2
Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad has narrated from Mu‘alla ibn Muhammad, in a mafu‘ manner, (rafa'ahu) about the words of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. "(Jinn and mankind) - which of the favors of your Lord do you deny?" (55:13) Will you deny and refuse the Holy Prophet or his successor." (This verse has come down in ch. 55 al-Rahman.)
 
 
 
H 572, Ch. 27, h 3
Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad has narrated from Mu‘alla ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn Jumhur from ‘Adallah ibn 'Abd al-Rahman from al-Haytham ibn Waqid from abu Yusuf al- Bazzaz who has said that abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) recited the following verse, "Keep in mind the bounties of Allah. . ." (7:69) The Imams (a.s.) said, "Do you know what the bounties of Allah are?" I said, "No, I do not know." He said, "It is the greatest of the bounties of Allah. It is to acknowledge the Divine authority that we possess."
 
So we can't seek help from the possessor of the divine authority ? Allah o akbar... and called Gluluw
 
H 573, Ch. 27, h 4
Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad has narrated from Mu‘alla ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn ’Uwarma from Ali ibn Hassa’n from ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Kathir who has said that he asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the meaning of the following verse. "Have you not seen (considered) those who changed the blessings (Word) of God through disbelief and led their people to destruction?" (14:28) The Imam (a.s.) said it is a reference to all of Quraysh who exercised animosity towards the Holy Prophet (s.a.), created wars against him and rejected his will about his successor."
 
and this verse continued to all those who change the meanings of Quran according to their own understanding.
 
 
THE IMAMS (AS) IN THE WORDS OF IMAM AL-SADIQ (AS) 

 

A beautiful and authentic hadith by Imam al-Sadiq (as) describing the condition and status of the Imams (as):

“Abu ‘Abd Allah (as) describing the condition of ‘A’immah (as) and their attributes in one of his sermons has said, ‘Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, has explained His religion through ‘A’immah of (true) guidance from the family of our Prophet (sawa) the Ahl al-Bayt (as) and has cleared through them the path of His system and plan. He has opened through them the inside of the springs of His knowledge. Whoever of the followers of Muhammad (sawa) has recognized his obligation toward the rights of his Imam he has realized the taste of the sweetness of his belief and the superior beauty of his Islam. It is because Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, has appointed the Imam as torchbearer for His creatures and authority over those who receive His blessings in His world. He has crowned him with dignity and has encompassed him in the light of His Omnipotence that extends for him a means to the heavens. He does not discontinue His blessings for him. None of the things with Allah is achieved except through its right means. Allah does not accept the good deeds of His servants without their recognition of the Imam (as). The Imam (as) knows how to sort out the dark confusing matters and things that may obscure the Sunnah (tradition of the Holy Prophet (sawa)) and the confounding matters in mischievous conditions. Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, has always chosen ‘A’immah from the descendents of al-Husayn (as) one after the other Imam. He would select and choose them for the leadership of His creatures delightfully and well satisfied with them. Whenever one Imam would leave this world He would appoint for His creatures his successor as a clear beacon and a shining guide, a guarding leader, and a knowledgeable one with Divine Authority. ‘A’immah from Allah guide people with the truth and with the truth they judge. They are Allah’s authority calling people to Him, and shepherds of His creatures. With their guidance people follow the religion and from them the land receive light. Through their holiness the bounties increase. Allah has made them life for the people and the torches in the darkness, the keys to communication and the strongholds for Islam. Thus, have the measures of Allah continued in them toward His final decision. “The Imam (as) is the outstanding amicable one; the most trusted guide and the guardian who can make hopes come true. Allah has chosen him with such distinctions. He selected him as such (well protected) in the realm when all things were in the form of particles in the instant that He made him. He chose him as such (well-protected) in the realm in which all things were designed as He had designed him as a shadow, before He made the organisms, on the right side of His throne, gifted him with wisdom in the unseen knowledge with Him. He chose him in His knowledge and granted him outstanding nobility for his purity. “He is an heir of Adam, the best one among the descendents of Noah, the chosen one of the family of Abraham, a descendent of Ishmael and of the most preferred ones in the family of Prophet Muhammad (sawa), He has always been looked after by the watchful eyes of Allah Who provides him security and guards him with His shield, well protected against the evil nets of Satan and his armies. He is well defended against the approaching dark nights and the false accusations of the evildoers. All wickedness is kept away from him and he is kept safe against all forms of defects and flaws. He is veiled against all scourges. “He is infallible in matters of sins. He is kept safe and sound against all indecencies. He is well known for his forbearance and virtuousness in the early days of his life. Chastity, great knowledge and excellence are ascribed to him toward the end of his life. The task of Imamat (Leadership with Divine Authority) of his father rests with him while in the lifetime of his father he remains silent. “When the time of the Imamat of his father ends it is the time when the measure of Allah ends up with him due to His wish. The will of Allah brings him to His love, thus, the end of the Imamat of his father comes and he passes away. The Authority from Allah shifts to him after his father. He then is made the person in charge of His religion, the Divine Authority over His servants, the guardian over His lands, he is supported with His spirit and is given of His knowledge. He raises him as a beacon for His creatures, makes him to have His Authority over the people of his world and as the light for the people of His religion and a guardian for His servants. Allah agrees to have him as Imam of the people, entrusts him with His secret, makes him a safe keeper of His knowledge and hides His wisdom in him. He protects him for His religion, calls upon him to serve His great task, and revives through him the phases of His system (of religion) and the obligations in His laws. “The Imam then enforces justice – when the people of ignorance are confused and the disputing and quarrelling people are frustrated – with shining light, the beneficial cure and radiant truth. He does so with clear explanations of all aspects and exactly in the manner and practice his truthful father and forefathers would do before him. No one ignores the rights of such a scholar except the wicked ones. No one refuses and denies him except those who have strayed away from the right path. No one keeps away from him except those who are aggressive against Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High.”

Sanad: Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from al-Hassan ibn Mahbub from Ishaq ibn Ghalib who has said the above hadith

Source: Usool al-Kafi, Volume 1, Chapter 72, Hadith #2 

Seeking help from imam(AS) is recognizing the divine authority of Allah over us and recognizing that's how Allah wanted us to reach him. 

Edited by struggling_On

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We would like to hear your interpretation of the above. 

 

If we pray jamaah in the masjid, is that considered "invoke with Allah anyone", because there is an Imam in the masjid and through that Imam we invoke Allah swt?

no because it's joint prayer and dua in the same direction to Allah alone.

 

nobody is making dua to the Imam of prayer, everybody is making dua to Allah.

 

.. whether alone of together, such prayers include duas to Allah alone. that includes the people praying behind the imam who do not address the Imam and ask him for help.

furthermore, i would like anybody to bring me an interpretation on this following verse:

 

"That is because, when Allah was called upon (made duas to) alone, you disbelieved; but if others were associated (shirq) with Him, you believed. So the judgement is with Allah , the Most High, the Grand." 40:12

 

am still waiting for somebody to tell me anything concerning the previous verse, and thank you brother Layman for addressing it and asking me a smart question.

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Rejecting a hadiths

“I heard abu Ja’far (as) saying, ‘Indeed by Allah the most beloved of my companions to me is the most devout of them and the most learned (afqah) of them and the most concealing of them with our hadith. And the worst of state of them with me and the most detestable of them to me is the one who when he hears the hadith that is attributed to us and narrated from us, but he does not understand it and his heart does not accept it, he abhors it and denies it, and declares kufr upon the one professes by it, and he does not know whether perhaps the hadith has come out from us and from us is it sourced. So he is by that outside of our Walayah (guardianship).’”

Sanad: It is narrated from him (narrator of the Hadith above) from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Mahbub from Jamil ibn Salih from abu ‘Ubaydah al-Hadhdha’

Source: Usool Al-Kafi, Volume 2, Hadith #2259

 

 

THE IMAMS (AS) KNOWLEDGE OF VARIOUS LANGUAGES

 

“Al-Reza (as) spoke with people in their own languages. By God, he was the most eloquent and the most knowledgeable person in any language. One day I told him, ‘O son of the Prophet of God! I am amazed at your mastery over all these various languages.’ Al-Reza (as) said, ‘O Aba Salt! I am the Proof of God for His creatures. God would not designate a Proof for Himself to any nation who does not know their language. Have you not heard that Ali – the Commander of the Faithful (as) said?, ‘We have been granted elaborate speech.’ Then how can this be without mastery of all the languages?’”

Sanad: Ahmad ibn Ziyad al-Hamadani narrated that Ali ibn Ibrahim ibn Hashem, on the authority of Aba Salt al-Harawi who said the above hadith

Source: `Uyoun Akhbaar al-Ridha, Sh. al-Sadooq, Volume 2, Chapter 54, Hadith #3

 

A couple of Authentic narrations elaborating on the knowledge of languages of the Imams (as):

 

“Abu ‘Abd Allah (as) has said, ‘Al-Hassan (as) has said, “Allah has two cities. One is in the east and the other is in the west. They have a boundary around them that is made of iron and each one has a million doors. Seven thousand different languages exist therein and I know all those languages and all that is in and between the two cities. No one possesses Leadership with Divine Authority over them except me and my brother al-Husayn (as).’”

Sanad: Ahmad ibn Muhammad and Muhammad ibn Yahya have narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Hassan from Ya‘qub ibn Yazid from ibn abu ‘Umayr from his people from abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the above hadith

Source: Usool al-Kafi, Volume 1, Chapter 172, Hadith #5

Edited by struggling_On

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no because it's joint prayer and dua in the same direction to Allah alone.

 

nobody is making dua to the Imam of prayer, everybody is making dua to Allah.

 

.. whether alone of together, such prayers include duas to Allah alone. that includes the people praying behind the imam who do not address the Imam and ask him for help.

furthermore, i would like anybody to bring me an interpretation on this following verse:

 

"That is because, when Allah was called upon (made duas to) alone, you disbelieved; but if others were associated (shirq) with Him, you believed. So the judgement is with Allah , the Most High, the Grand." 40:12

 

am still waiting for somebody to tell me anything concerning the previous verse, and thank you brother Layman for addressing it and asking me a smart question.

 

 

Define the word "dua" and if asking Imams for help is a "dua".

Edited by layman

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Define the word "dua" and if asking Imams for help is a "dua".

The word dua in Islam is in reference to spiritual supplication.

An example is when someone says :"do duas for me please, I have an exam coming up."

Muslims will understand this as "please make spiritual supplication for me (to God)"

It can be made secretly , quietly, or out loud.

This is the kind of "dua" meant in the verse above that orders us not to make "dua" to any other than God.

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What is meant by the saying: “Ali (as) is the Distributor of the Paradise and the Fire”? (علي قسيم الجنة والنار)


 



‘I said to Abu Abdullah Ja’far Bin Muhammad Al-Sadiq (as): ‘Why did Ameer Al-Mu’mineen Ali Bin Abu Taleb (as) come to be Distributor of the Paradise and the Fire?’ He said: ‘Because, love for him is faith, and hate for him is Disbelief. But rather, the Paradise was Created for the people of the Imaan (faith), and the Fire was Created for the people of the disbelief. Therefore, he is the Distributor of the Paradise and the Fire, due to this reason. So the Paradise, none shall enter it except for the people who love him, and the Fire, none shall enter it except for the people who hate him’.

Al-Mufadhal narrates, ‘So I said, ‘O son of the Messenger of Allah! So the Prophets (as), and the successors used to love him, and their enemies used to hate him?’ He said: ‘Yes’. I said, ‘So how can that be?’ He said: ‘But do you not know that the Prophet (sawa) said on the Day of Khayber: ‘I shall be giving the flag tomorrow to a man who loves Allah and His Messenger, and Allah and His Messenger love him. He would not return Allah Grants him victory by his hands’? So he handed over the flag to Ali (as). Thus Allah Granted victory by his hands’. I said, ‘Yes’.

He said: ‘But, do you know that when the Messenger of Allah (sawa) was brought a grilled chicken, he said: ‘O Allah! Get the one most Beloved to You and to me to come and eat with me, from this bird’ – and he meant Ali (as) by it?’ I said, ‘Yes’.

He said: ‘So is it Permissible that the Prophets of Allah, and their successors did not love a man who is Loved by Allah and His Messenger, and he loved Allah and His Messenger?’ So I said to him, ‘No’. So is it Permissible that the Believers who happened to be in their communities were not loving the Beloved one of Allah, and a beloved one of His Messengers, and the His Prophets?’ I said, ‘No’.

He said: ‘It has thus been proved that their enemies and the adversaries, it would be that for them, and for the entirety of those that loved them, and the hateful ones’. I said, ‘Yes’. He said: ‘Therefore, none shall enter the Paradise except the one who loves him, from the former ones and the later ones; and none shall enter the Fire except the one who hates him, from the former ones and the later ones. Thus, then, he is the Distributor of the Paradise and the Fire’.

Al-Mufadhal Ibn Umar said, ‘So I said to him, ‘O son of the Messenger of Allah! Relieve from me (the understanding of matters), may Allah Relieve you’. He said: ‘Ask, O Mufadhal!’ So I said to him, ‘O son of the Messenger of Allah! So Ali (as) would be entering those that love him into the Paradise, and those that hate him into the Fire? Or would it be Ridhwaan and Maalik (the two Keepers)?’

So he said: ‘O Mufadhal! But, know that Allah Blessed and High Sent Messengers to the Prophets, and he was a spirit, and they were spirits, before the Creation of the creation by two thousand years. But know, that he called them to the Oneness of Allah, and being obedient to Him, and the following of His Commands, and promised themas the Paradise upon that, and promised the ones who opposed and did not respond to them, and rejected them, (promised) the Fire’. I said, ‘Yes’.

He said: ‘So, is not the Prophet therefore responsible, when he promised and promise on behalf of his Lord Mighty and Majestic?’ I said, ‘Yes’. He said: ‘Or is not Ali Bin Abu Taleb (as) his Caliph and an Imam of his community?’ I said, ‘Yes’. He said: ‘Or are not Ridhwaan and Maalik (the two Keepers), from the totality of the Angels, and the seekers of Forgiveness for his Shia, the salvaged ones due to his love?’ I said, ‘Yes’. He said: ‘Therefore Ali Bin Abu Taleb (as) is the Distributor of the Paradise and the Fire, from the Messenger of Allah (swt), and Ridhwaan and Maalik (the two Keepers) are the implementers of his orders by the Command of Allah Blessed and High.

O Mufadhal! Take this, for it is from the treasured knowledge, and conceal it. Do not bring it out (to anyone) except to the one who is deserving of it’.

حدثنا أحمد بن الحسن القطان قال : حدثنا أحمد بن يحيى بن زكريا أبو العباس القطان قال : حدثنا محمد بن إسماعيل البرمكي قال : حدثنا عبد الله بن داهر قال : حدثنا أبي ، عن محمد بن سنان عن المفضل بن عمر قال : قلت لأبي عبد الله جعفر بن محمد الصادق ” ع ” لم صار أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب قسيم الجنة والنار ؟ قال : لان حبه إيمان وبغضه كفر ، وإنما خلقت الجنة لأهل الايمان ، وخلقت النار لأهل الكفر ، فهو عليه السلام قسيم الجنة والنار ، لهذه العلة فالجنة لا يدخلها إلا أهل محبته ، والنار لا يدخلها إلا أهل بغضه . قال المفضل : فقلت يا بن رسول الله فالأنبياء والأوصياء عليهم السلام كانوا يحبونه وأعدائهم كانوا يبغضونه ؟ قال نعم قلت فكيف ذلك ؟ قال : أما علمت أن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله قال يوم خيبر : لأعطين الراية غدا رجلا يحب الله ورسوله ويحبه الله ورسوله ما يرجع حتى يفتح الله على يديه ، فدفع الراية إلى علي عليه السلام ففتح الله تعالى على يديه . قلت بلى ، قال : أما علمت أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله لما أتى بالطائر المشوي قال صلى الله عليه وآله اللهم إئتني بأحب خلقك إليك وإلي يأكل معي من هذا الطائر – وعنى به عليا ” ع ” – قلت بلى ، قال فهل يجوز أن لا يحب أنبياء الله ورسله وأوصيائهم عليهم السلام رجلا يحبه الله ورسوله ويحب الله ورسوله . فقلت له لا ، قال : فهل يجوز أن يكون المؤمنون من أممهم لا يحبون حبيب الله وحبيب رسوله ، وأنبيائه عليهم السلام ؟ قلت لا ، قال : فقد ثبت ان أعدائهم والمخالفين لهم كانوا لهم ولجميع أهل محبتهم مبغضين ، قلت نعم ، قال : فلا يدخل الجنة إلا من أحبه من الأولين والآخرين ولا يدخل النار إلا من أبغضه من الأولين والآخرين فهو إذن قسيم الجنة والنار . قال المفضل بن عمر : فقلت له يا بن رسول الله فرجت عني فرج الله عنك فزدني مما علمك الله ، قال : سل يا مفضل فقلت له يا بن رسول الله فعلي بن أبي طالب عليه السلام يدخل محبه الجنة ومبغضه النار ؟ أو رضوان ومالك ؟ فقال يا مفضل أما علمت أن الله تبارك وتعالى بعث رسول صلى الله عليه وآله وهو روح إلى الأنبياء عليهم السلام ، وهم أرواح قبل خلق الخلق بألفي عام ، قال : أما علمت أنه دعاهم إلى توحيد الله وطاعته واتباع أمره ووعدهم الجنة على ذلك وأوعد من خالف ما أجابوا إليه وأنكره النار قلت بلى قال : أفليس النبي صلى الله عليه وآله ضامنا لما وعد وأوعد عن ربه عز وجل ، قلت بلى قال : أوليس علي بن أبي طالب خليفته وإمام أمته ؟ قلت بلى ، قال : أوليس رضوان وملك من جملة الملائكة والمستغفرين لشيعته الناجين بمحبته ؟ قلت بلى ، قال : فعلي ابن أبي طالب إذن قسيم الجنة والنار عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله ورضوان ومالك صادران عن أمره بأمر الله تبارك وتعالى ، يا مفضل خذ هذا فإنه من مخزون العلم ومكنونه لا تخرجه إلا إلى أهله


Sanad: Ahmad Bin Al Hassan Al Qatan narrated to us, from Ahmad Bin Yahya Bin Zakariyya Abu Al Abbas Al Qatan, from Muhammad Bin Isamil Al Barmakky, from Abdullah Bin Dahar, from his father, from Muhammad Bin Sinan, from Al Mufadhal Bin Umar who said the above hadith


Source: `ilil al-Shara’i`, Sh. Al-Sadooq, Volume 1, Chapter 130, Hadith #1


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The word dua in Islam is in reference to spiritual supplication.

An example is when someone says :"do duas for me please, I have an exam coming up."

Muslims will understand this as "please make spiritual supplication for me (to God)"

It can be made secretly , quietly, or out loud.

This is the kind of "dua" meant in the verse above that orders us not to make "dua" to any other than God.

 

Is asking for help from Imam a dua?

 

Is the definition of dua that you stated above from your understanding or universally accepted  definition?

Edited by layman

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dear peace seeker ll ,if Patience  is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time.And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm.       welcome to discussion...

 

thank you dear Defender Justice :) for these inspirational and beautiful words .. may Allah reward you many-fold again and again

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Is asking for help from Imam a dua?

 

Is the definition of dua that you stated above from your understanding or universally accepted  definition?

 

that's universally applied and accepted definition. the difference is that some people say it's ok to make spiritual supplication to others than Allah .. but any muslim, when they say "make dua for me" or "eda'eeli" (in Arabic) .. it is in reference to spiritual dua .. not a single Muslim person will understand the words "make dua for me" as going to a person that walks this earth and asking them for help.

 

if you search the internet on the meaning of the word "dua" you will find the same universally accepted definition:

 

an example is wikipedia, for instance:

 

 

In the terminology of Islamduʿāʾ (Arabicدُعَاء‎, plural: ʾadʿiyah أدْعِيَة; also transliterated Doowa[1]), literally meaning "invocation", is an act of supplication. The term is derived from an Arabic word meaning to 'call out' or to 'summon', and Muslims regard this as a profound act of worship. The Islamic prophet Muhammad is reported to have said "Dua is the very essence of worship," while one of God's commands expressed through the Quran is for them to call out to Him:

And your Lord says: "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer):

—Quran, sura 40 (Ghafir), ayah 60[2]

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H 3052, CH 1, h 6
Abu Ali al-Ash’ari has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Jabbar from ibn abu Najran from Sayf al-Tammar who has said the following:

 

“I heard abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, saying, ‘You must plead before Allah for help; you cannot seek nearness to Allah by any means better than pleading before Him for help. Do not leave your small needs without pleading before Allah for help, just because they are small; both small and large needs are in the hands of One and the same One.’”

 

H 3053, CH 1, h 7
A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from al-Husayn ibn Sa’Id from al-Nadr ibn Suwayd from al-Qasim ibn Sulayman from ‘Ubayd ibn Zurara from his father from a man who has said the following:

 

“Abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has said, pleading before Allah for help is the form of worship .."

 

H 3056, CH 2, h 2

Through the same chain of narrators it is narrated from Amir al-Mu’minin, Ali ibn abu Talib, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the following:

 

“Pleading before Allah for help is the key to success and the input for one’s well being. The best prayer is what comes out of a clean chest and pious heart. In pleading before Allah for help there is the means for salvation, in sincerity there is freedom and when distress intensifies, Allah is the only One before Whom one must implore for protection.

 

 

H 3059, CH 2, h 5
A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Faddal from certain individuals of our people who has said the following:

 

“Al-Rida, recipient of divine supreme covenant, would say to his disciples, ‘You must keep with you the weapons of the prophets.’ It was asked, ‘What are the weapons of the prophets?’

 

The Imam said, ‘It is prayer, pleading before Allah for help.’”

 

 

All from Al-Kafi volume 2

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In the other thread I did put my understanding of dua...

 

Duas is to acknowledge (testifying) Allah swt is the Highest, Absolute Authority, the Rabb and what ever stated as HIS NAMES and beyond that.....Allah-u AHAD.  Duas to Allah is an act of worshipping, part of Shahadad (testiying La illa ha illa Allah)...

 

We have no problem to state that duas that we make to Allah swt is a form of worship. 

 

Also you have agreed that in you post #5 that, I qoute ".. whether alone or together, such prayers include duas to Allah alone. that includes the people praying behind the imam who do not address the Imam and ask him for help."

 

Based on your understanding, we are allowed to call upon Allah swt  "alone or together" (remember about this statement of yours, because I will come back to get your explanation on this).

 

Is asking for help from Allah swt "alone" is better or "together" (like in a jamaah) and lead by an Imam that is well known for his "taqwa")?

 

 

However, I still need for you to  let us know if  "Is asking for help from Imam a dua?"

Edited by layman

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Interesting Experience... 

 

I was talking to a sunni about this concept of " Seeking help from prophet(pbuh) and he(pbuh) can't give provide any kind of help as he(pbuh) isn't present on face of earth", I didn't even say some so called followers of ahlulbayt(AS) also believe in this, his Answer was amazing....

 

Sayyyyyid, Stop it please.... !! This is what u r saying is wahabi ideology we have nothing to do with it and we are against it.

 

some sunnies brethren have better understanding of at least prophet hood than many so called followers of ahlulbyat(as).

This is something interesting I've noticed about certain Shias. To them, if certain Sunnis believe in some ghuluw-type concept, then they feel like it lends legitimacy to their own beliefs. Apparently it would be unacceptable to be outdone in this area by a Sunni.

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This is something interesting I've noticed about certain Shias. To them, if certain Sunnis believe in some ghuluw-type concept, then they feel like it lends legitimacy to their own beliefs. Apparently it would be unacceptable to be outdone in this area by a Sunni.

 

I had a migrane but this made me laugh brother.

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In the other thread I did put my understanding of dua...

 

Duas is to acknowledge (testifying) Allah swt is the Highest, Absolute Authority, the Rabb and what ever stated as HIS NAMES and beyond that.....Allah-u AHAD.  Duas to Allah is an act of worshipping, part of Shahadad (testiying La illa ha illa Allah)...

 

We have no problem to state that duas that we make to Allah swt is a form of worship. 

 

Also you have agreed that in you post #5 that, I qoute ".. whether alone or together, such prayers include duas to Allah alone. that includes the people praying behind the imam who do not address the Imam and ask him for help."

 

Based on your understanding, we are allowed to call upon Allah swt  "alone or together" (remember about this statement of yours, because I will come back to get your explanation on this).

 

Is asking for help from Allah swt "alone" is better or "together" (like in a jamaah) and lead by an Imam that is well known for his "taqwa")?

 

 

However, I still need for you to  let us know if  "Is asking for help from Imam a dua?"

 

look with all due respect, i do not really like discussing this indirect way. just get to the point. 

 

this statement is false, because dua can be done to many others than Allah, therefore it can not be a shahada:

 

 

Duas is to acknowledge (testifying) Allah swt is the Highest, Absolute Authority, the Rabb and what ever stated as HIS NAMES and beyond that.....Allah-u AHAD.  Duas to Allah is an act of worshipping, part of Shahadad (testiying La illa ha illa Allah)...

 

 

for instance dua in this verse is against the acknowledgment of the Oneness of Allah:

 

And those you call upon (make duas to) besides Him are unable to help you, nor can they help themselves." 7:197

 

at the same time dua is an act of supplication and not a shahada or witnessing / testimony. we can acknowledge the Oneness of God to anybody, but we should make dua only to Allah. Dua is asking for help. Acknowledging something is not an act of asking for help. However, i agree with the part of dua to Allah being a form of worship, which i have shown in hadiths on this thread.

 

now concerning your question of:

 

 

 

Is asking for help from Imam a dua?

 

it depends in what context. if you have access to an imam on this earth or in your dreams, within your own senses, then no, it's not known as a dua.

 

dua is if you ask an Imam for help the way you ask Allah for help. in a purely spiritual way, beyond a 2-way response system.

 

 

example ( halal ) :

 

you go ask the imam who lives next door to you for some advice

 

your wife asks you after you come home: "where were you?"

 

you will say "i went over to the imam and asked him for help on something" .. you will not tell your wife "i did dua to the imam"

 

example ( haram ) :

 

you need guidance and don't have a wise person to ask in person

 

now you think: "should i supplicate to Allah for help?" .. "naaaaah!!! i'll ask imam ali who is buried since 1400 years" (you raise your hands and say oh ya Ali i need your help and guidance please! you're my intercession etc )

 

your wife comes in and says "what are you doing?"

 

here you can confidently say "making dua to imam ali for help"

 

 

____

 

so, you see ..

 

example 1, which is halal is not dua, yet the imam is being asked for help

 

example 2 is dua while asking Imam Ali for help spiritually

 

___

 

i believe this is quite simple.

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This is something interesting I've noticed about certain Shias. To them, if certain Sunnis believe in some ghuluw-type concept, then they feel like it lends legitimacy to their own beliefs. Apparently it would be unacceptable to be outdone in this area by a Sunni.

imam ali(as) said, don't look who is saying, but notice what is being said. 

 

 

and he(as) even said, take the good/virtue even if you have take it from mouth of a dog. so i don't mind it, if doesn't go against Quran and sunnah of prophet(pbuh). 

 

If that's ghuluw then people have weak concept of tawheed and Allah, In order to defeat wahabi and khawarji ideology some sunnies are doing better job than many sooo called followers of ahlulbayt(as)

Edited by struggling_On

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imam ali(as) said, don't look who is saying, but notice what is being said.

Problem is, you do look at who is saying it. If a Wahhabis says it, then you automatically want to reject it, and if a Sunni contradicts a Wahhabi, then you automatically want to agree with them.

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Problem is, you do look at who is saying it. If a Wahhabis says it, then you automatically want to reject it, and if a Sunni contradicts a Wahhabi, then you automatically want to agree with them.

 

No, i don't.... that's your assumption.

Edited by struggling_On

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imam ali(as) said, don't look who is saying, but notice what is being said. 

 

 

and he(as) even take the good even if it from mouth of a dog. so i don't mind using anyone if doesn't go against Quran and sunnah of prophet(pbuh). 

 

If that's ghuluw then people have weak concept of tawheed and Allah, In order to defeat wahabi and khawarji ideology some sunnies are doing better job than many sooo called followers of ahlulbayt(as)

 

 

 

 

 

H 3056, CH 2, h 2

Through the same chain of narrators it is narrated from Amir al-Mu’minin, Ali ibn abu Talib, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the following:

 

“Pleading before Allah for help is the key to success and the input for one’s well being. The best prayer is what comes out of a clean chest and pious heart. In pleading before Allah for help there is the means for salvation, in sincerity there is freedom and when distress intensifies, Allah is the only One before Whom one must implore for protection.” Al-Kafi Vol 2

 

 

 

 

And that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone. 72:18 

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Dear brother peace seeker,

 

I have come to the sad realization that as clear as that hadith is, the way to go about this is denial. When the hadith says Allah swt is the only one whom one must implore for protection, it really means Allah swt and also Imam Ali a.s. (and the imams a.s)

 

There is one counter to every evidence you bring  - that is the waseelah verse. This verse can be used as a ace , a counter, a refutation to all evidences. No explanation needed - only the waseelah verse and a long elaborate unrelated discussion.

 

I'm only playing devils advocate here brother


I am not trying to play the marja vs marja debate here  , but just look at the reasoning used - the proper way of tawassul being argued and acceptable by learned men , so no-one can appeal to authority here because we seemingly have learned men on both sides.

 

Here is the Marja:

 

Grand Ayatollah[1][2] Seyed Reza Hosseini Nassab (Persian: سيد رضا حسيني نسب) (born 1960) is an Iranian Twelver Shi'a Marja,[3][4][5] currently residing in Canada.[6] He was the President and Imam of the Islamic Centre inHamburgGermany, and since 2003 he has served as the President of Shia Islam Federation “Ahlul Bayt Assembly of Canada".

 

 

 

 

 

Here was my question:

 

Dear respected Marajah,

I have read volumes of books on waseelah, tawassul, so i know the concepts. However, to clarify, is it permissible to:
1. Call on Ali a.s to forgive sins, to grant our dua, to grant us children and protection
Or
2. Calling on Allah swt for the sake of Ali a.s, or asking Ali a.s rather than to grant us children, to pray to Allah swt and beg Allah swt on our behalf
Which is the proper and which is the incorrect form of tawassul
 
And the answer:
 
In the name of Allah
Salaam Alaikum,
The second one is proper and recommended. 
Best Regards, 
 
(The signature's IMAGE is not permitted on the Forum, but it was answered with his seal)

 

 

 

 

 

The Istifah answer is somewhat similar with the following two marjah's:

 

Grand Ayatullah Muhammed Hussain Najafi

 

Grand Ayatollah Allama Shaikh Muhammad Hussain Najafi (Arabic/Persian/Urdu/Punjabi: آية الله العظمی علامہ الشیخ محمد حسین النجفي) (born April 1932) is a Twelver Shi'i alim from Pakistan and has been elevated to the status ofmarjiyyat. At present, there are two maraji of Pakistani descent, the other one Basheer Hussain Najafi. As Basheer Hussain Najafi has chosen to reside in NajafIraq, Muhammad Hussain Najafi is the only marja' on Pakistani soil, running a Hawza in Sargodha.[1] He was included in the lists "The 500 Most Influential Muslims" for the years 2010 and 2011.[2][3]

 

 

"Muslim should only ask Allah for mercy, help, for childern, for money and everything. A Muslim (Shia) can't ask masoomeen directly to give all these things. We can't say O Ali give me a child or O Hussain give me money rather we should ask Allah and use the masoomeen as an intermediary." - Translation by ShiaChat user Marbles

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ayatullah Muhammed Hussain Fadlullah r.a

 

fadlallah.nasrallah.jan10.jpg

 

The Message of Unification

This is the line of unification that the Prophet (p.) and the Imams of Ahl Al-Beit used to advocate. It is regretful, in this respect, that certain extremist Muslim schools of thought accuse the followers of Ahl Al-Beit of ascribing partners to Allah. The fact is that we love Ahl Al-Beit and their Imamate on the basis of being the servants of Allah. That is why we say in the second testimony: "I testify that Muhammad is Allah's servant and messenger".  And we testify that all Imams are Allah's servants and that they were appointed as such by Allah, the Most Exalted.

Furthermore, when we ask for our needs, we do not ask for them from the Imams, because they themselves ask Allah. We read, for example, in the supplication of the Commander of the Faithful: "I seek Your intercession to Yourself". The Prophets and Imams became close to Allah only as a result of their faithfulness and worship of Him. The best text that we can cite in this context is found in the supplication of Thursday by Imam Zien El-Abideen (a.s.) that says: "And make my seeking his – the Prophet –mediation become profitable on the Day of Judgment".

Let us learn to say when we sit, stand, and move: "Oh, God", for the Prophets themselves used to ask their needs from Him. This is what Noah (a.s.) did: "Therefore he called on his Lord: I am overcome, come Thou then to help"(54:10), and this is also what Musa (a.s.) did when he said: "Surely I stand in need of whatever good Thou mayest send down to me"(28:24).

 

 

 


Sayed Hadi Qazwini reply

 

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

 

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Edited by Tawheed313

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Dear brother peace seeker,

 

I have come to the sad realization that as clear as that hadith is, the way to go about this is denial. When the hadith says Allah swt is the only one whom one must implore for protection, it really means Allah swt and also Imam Ali a.s. (and the imams a.s)

 

There is one counter to every evidence you bring  - that is the waseelah verse. This verse can be used as a ace , a counter, a refutation to all evidences. No explanation needed - only the waseelah verse and a long elaborate unrelated discussion.

 

I'm only playing devils advocate here brother

 

dear brother tawheed .. continue being a champion masha Allah

 

i love being challenged! even if it's from somebody on my side. these days it's hard for find a challenging opponent in this topic, which is really sad. please clarify how exactly the two wasila verses are evidence for making dua to others than Allah . because from what i know one wasila verse does not mention dua at all, while the other one 

 

Say, "Invoke (dua) those you have claimed [as gods] besides Him, for they do not possess the [ability for] removal of adversity from you or [for its] transfer [to someone else]." 17:56

 

Those whom they invoke seek means of access (wasila) to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared. 17:57

 

I need a challenge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :( please thank you

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dear brother tawheed .. continue being a champion masha Allah

 

i love being challenged! even if it's from somebody on my side. these days it's hard for find a challenging opponent in this topic, which is really sad. please clarify how exactly the two wasila verses are evidence for making dua to others than Allah . because from what i know one wasila verse does not mention dua at all, while the other one 

 

Say, "Invoke (dua) those you have claimed [as gods] besides Him, for they do not possess the [ability for] removal of adversity from you or [for its] transfer [to someone else]." 17:56

 

Those whom they invoke seek means of access (wasila) to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared. 17:57

 

I need a challenge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :( please thank you

 

Thoughts on this video?

 

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