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struggling_On

Interesting Experience ... And Rijah

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heheh :D that's funny but sad

 

sad how people treat Imam Ali like al-Ali

 

al-Ali being one of Allah's Names 


we have the weakness among sunnis is leaning towards nifaq and shias leaning towards shirq .. and anybody who things their religious group don't have mistakes must be very ... hmm .. how do you say .. 

 

here is something i wrote a while ago, and maybe you'd appreciate it and understand it:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235025119-conversation-with-the-devil/

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H 3056, CH 2, h 2

Through the same chain of narrators it is narrated from Amir al-Mu’minin, Ali ibn abu Talib, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the following:

 

“Pleading before Allah for help is the key to success and the input for one’s well being. The best prayer is what comes out of a clean chest and pious heart. In pleading before Allah for help there is the means for salvation, in sincerity there is freedom and when distress intensifies, Allah is the only One before Whom one must implore for protection.” Al-Kafi Vol 2

 

 

 

 

And that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone. 72:18 

 

 

All of these had already been discussed in previous thread and some point have been discussed in other threads... 

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All of these had already been discussed in previous thread and some point have been discussed in other threads...

 

We don't have problem directly to Allah and using Waseela of ahlulbayt(AS)

 

that's how I pray most of the time and all the people i know who believe in Divine authority of ahlulbayt(AS)

 

 

Pray 1

 

Salwat: O Allah u r the majistic one, you are the owner of everything, You are the one who helps, You are the creator of everything, You created ahlulbayt(AS) to whom people did in justice O the Great Master, people did injustic towards them, never recognised them and were of jealous of them(AS) because their(as) status near you... O master they(AS) are your best creation and You love them the most.... bestow me for the sake of those who you love the most(ahlulbayt(AS))) give me..... My hajjat. 

 

salwat

 

 

2nd Prayer,

 

O prophet(pbuh) of Allah or if it's imam Ali(AS) than O the Walli of Allah, O the Sincere Slave of Allah, You are the one through which I recognized Allah and through you I have known Allah; You are the face of Allah.... O my master Please pray for me..... Or O my master give me from the blessings that Allah has given you, and Allah has given you Everything, He(Swt) made you master of the universe.... Help me, for the sake of your Lord help me...

 

 

If that's shirk then I'm Mushrik, AND IF PEOPLE CALL IT gHULUW THAN I'M GHALLI,  So are all the imams(AS) for teaching us wrong !! 

 

Once Imam Jafar al Sadiq  (as) was eating food with Abu Hanifa and after finishing Imam Jafar  (as) expressed gratitude like this: “I thank Allah, Who is the Sustainer of All Worlds, O Allah this was a blessing from You as well as from your Prophet(pbuh).” Upon hearing this Abu Hanifa said: “O Abu AbdAllah! You have included “someone else” alongside Allah” Imam Jafar al-Sadiq  (as) replied: “Be Careful, Allah says in His Book: “If only they had been content with what Allah and His Messenger had gave them, and had said, ‘Sufficient unto us is Allah! Allah and His Messenger will soon give us out of their Kindness.” [Holy Quran 9:59] And at another place Allah says: “…..And they only stayed in opposition because Allah and His Messenger enriched them out of His grace…” [Holy Quran 9:74] After listening to these verses from Imam Jafar  (as), Abu Hanifa said: “By Allah, it seems I have never read or heard someone reciting these verses of the Holy Quran before.” Imam Jafar al Sadiq  (as) said: “No, its not like this! You have not only heard these verses before but also have read them. However, Allah says for you and people like you: “Will they then not meditate on the Quran, or are there locks on the hearts?” [Holy Quran 47:24] And says: “Nay, but that which they have earned is rust upon their hearts.” [Holy Quran 83:14]

 

Imam Sadiq  (as) said, that Ali  (as) said in one of his sermons: “I am the guided one and I am the father of orphans and the destitute and the husband of widows. I am the refuge for every weak one and the fort of safety for every fearful one. I am one to make the believers reach Paradise and I am the firm rope of Allah (Hablulla-ul-Matin) and I am the firmest handle (Urwatul Wuthqa). I am the ‘word of piety’, I am the eyes of Allah, the truthful tongue of Allah and the side of Allah regarding which Allah says: O woe to me! For what I fell short of the side of Allah (Janb-Allah). And I am the hands of Allah that Allah has made wide for His creatures for mercy and forgiveness and I am the gate of repentance ‘Bab-e-Hitta’ for this Ummat.”

 

Source: Ma`ani Al-Akhbaar, Sh. Sadooq, Chapter 13, Hadith #14, Page 18-19 (See Image 1); Al-Tawheed, Sh. Sadooq, Chapter 22, Hadith #2, Page 164-165

 


My father – Allah have mercy on Him – said: Sa`d b. `Abdullah narrated to us, he said: Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa narrated to us, from Hasan b. Sa`eed, from Fudalah b. Ayyub, from Abban b. `Uthman, from Muhammad b. Muslim, who said:
I heard Aba `Abdillah  (as) say: Indeed Allah, Mighty and Majestic, created certain creatures from His light, and a mercy from His mercy for the sake of His Mercy. For these are the eye of Allah that sees, and His ear that hears, and His tongue that speaks to His creation by His permission, and the safeguards over what has descended from (His) justifications and warnings and proofs. And through them He wards off grievances, and through them He sends down mercy, and through them He enlivens the dead, and causes to die the living. And through them He afflicts His creation (with tribulations), and through them He judges cases among His creation. I asked: May I be your ransom – Who are these?

He  (as) replied: Al-Awsiyaa (the vicegerents).

 

 

Allah(swt) then speaks of another metaphor in the Qur’an:

وَلَا تَدْعُ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَٰهًا آخَرَ ۘ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ كُلُّ شَيْءٍ هَالِكٌ إِلَّا وَجْهَهُ ۚ لَهُ الْحُكْمُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

Except the face of Allah everything will get destroyed. (Surah Qasas 28:88)

 

Most commentators have said that ‘face’ means the self of Allah and everything would be destroyed before the day of Judgement and then created again. Some have said that it means the religion of Allah and His worship.

 

However, we have many hadiths that seem to give another deeper, inner meaning to it.

 

Imam Al-Sadiq  (as) said: Allah has made us in the best creation and bestowed us the best form (face) and appointed us as the caretaker of His creatures and bestowed us a tongue that testifies for Him and made us His wide hands for His creatures and appointed us as the face of Allah as we guide the people towards Him. And we are the treasurers of Allah in the Heavens and the earth. By our blessings trees bear fruits and reach perfection, and rivers flow. Due to our blessings rain falls from the sky and vegetation grows on the land. The worship of Allah is performed by witnessing our worship. If we were not there Allah would not have been worshipped. That we have taught the people the method of worshipping Allah as complete worship of Allah is not possible by others or because our Wilayat (Mastership) is a condition for acceptance of worship. If our Wilayat was not there no worship would have been accepted.

Source: Al-Tawheed, Sh. Sadooq, Chapter 12, Hadith #8, Page 151-152

 

If that's Shirk then i'm one HAPPY MUSHRIK !! May Allah always keeep me on this and Take my soul on this belief. we don't have to proof of anything, Allah will judge us, and he is the best  Judge.... 

 

O Allah, If I'm among mushrik in your eyes, while i'm on this belief then may Allah curse me, don't give me any respite and never show me his mercy and put me in Hell forever.... And If i'm not then may Allah bring me even closer to him, by rights of imams(AS)  And then those who are enemies and are jealous and envious of status of ahlulbayt(AS) and their shias near Allah including those who have doubts, May Allah guide them, as he knows the condition of hearts, and if they are still not guide able then May Allah destroy them, May Allah don't give them any respite and remove his mercy from them by the right of severed head and broken Ribs of Lady fatima(AS). Ameen

Edited by struggling_On

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All of these had already been discussed in previous thread and some point have been discussed in other threads...

 

We don't have problem directly to Allah and using Waseela of ahlulbayt(AS)

 

that's how I pray most of the time and all the people i know who believe in Divine authority of ahlulbayt(AS)

 

 

Pray 1

 

Salwat: O Allah u r the majistic one, you are the owner of everything, You are the one who helps, You are the creator of everything, You created ahlulbayt(AS) to whom people did in justice O the Great Master, people did injustic towards them, never recognised them and were of jealous of them(AS) because their(as) status near you... O master they(AS) are your best creation and You love them the most.... bestow me for the sake of those who you love the most(ahlulbayt(AS))) give me..... My hajjat. 

 

salwat

 

 

2nd Prayer,

 

O prophet(pbuh) of Allah or if it's imam Ali(AS) than O the Walli of Allah, O the Sincere Slave of Allah, You are the one through which I recognized Allah and through you I have known Allah; You are the face of Allah.... O my master Please pray for me..... Or O my master give me from the blessings that Allah has given you, and Allah has given you Everything, He(Swt) made you master of the universe.... Help me, for the sake of your Lord help me...

 

 

If that's shirk then I'm Mushrik, AND IF PEOPLE CALL IT gHULUW THAN I'M GHALLI,  So are all the imams(AS) for teaching us wrong !! 

 

Once Imam Jafar al Sadiq  (as) was eating food with Abu Hanifa and after finishing Imam Jafar  (as) expressed gratitude like this: “I thank Allah, Who is the Sustainer of All Worlds, O Allah this was a blessing from You as well as from your Prophet(pbuh).” Upon hearing this Abu Hanifa said: “O Abu AbdAllah! You have included “someone else” alongside Allah” Imam Jafar al-Sadiq  (as) replied: “Be Careful, Allah says in His Book: “If only they had been content with what Allah and His Messenger had gave them, and had said, ‘Sufficient unto us is Allah! Allah and His Messenger will soon give us out of their Kindness.” [Holy Quran 9:59] And at another place Allah says: “…..And they only stayed in opposition because Allah and His Messenger enriched them out of His grace…” [Holy Quran 9:74] After listening to these verses from Imam Jafar  (as), Abu Hanifa said: “By Allah, it seems I have never read or heard someone reciting these verses of the Holy Quran before.” Imam Jafar al Sadiq  (as) said: “No, its not like this! You have not only heard these verses before but also have read them. However, Allah says for you and people like you: “Will they then not meditate on the Quran, or are there locks on the hearts?” [Holy Quran 47:24] And says: “Nay, but that which they have earned is rust upon their hearts.” [Holy Quran 83:14]

 

Imam Sadiq  (as) said, that Ali  (as) said in one of his sermons: “I am the guided one and I am the father of orphans and the destitute and the husband of widows. I am the refuge for every weak one and the fort of safety for every fearful one. I am one to make the believers reach Paradise and I am the firm rope of Allah (Hablulla-ul-Matin) and I am the firmest handle (Urwatul Wuthqa). I am the ‘word of piety’, I am the eyes of Allah, the truthful tongue of Allah and the side of Allah regarding which Allah says: O woe to me! For what I fell short of the side of Allah (Janb-Allah). And I am the hands of Allah that Allah has made wide for His creatures for mercy and forgiveness and I am the gate of repentance ‘Bab-e-Hitta’ for this Ummat.”

 

Source: Ma`ani Al-Akhbaar, Sh. Sadooq, Chapter 13, Hadith #14, Page 18-19 (See Image 1); Al-Tawheed, Sh. Sadooq, Chapter 22, Hadith #2, Page 164-165

 

My father – Allah have mercy on Him – said: Sa`d b. `Abdullah narrated to us, he said: Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa narrated to us, from Hasan b. Sa`eed, from Fudalah b. Ayyub, from Abban b. `Uthman, from Muhammad b. Muslim, who said:
I heard Aba `Abdillah  (as) say: Indeed Allah, Mighty and Majestic, created certain creatures from His light, and a mercy from His mercy for the sake of His Mercy. For these are the eye of Allah that sees, and His ear that hears, and His tongue that speaks to His creation by His permission, and the safeguards over what has descended from (His) justifications and warnings and proofs. And through them He wards off grievances, and through them He sends down mercy, and through them He enlivens the dead, and causes to die the living. And through them He afflicts His creation (with tribulations), and through them He judges cases among His creation. I asked: May I be your ransom – Who are these?

He  (as) replied: Al-Awsiyaa (the vicegerents).

 

 

Allah(swt) then speaks of another metaphor in the Qur’an:

وَلَا تَدْعُ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَٰهًا آخَرَ ۘ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ كُلُّ شَيْءٍ هَالِكٌ إِلَّا وَجْهَهُ ۚ لَهُ الْحُكْمُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

Except the face of Allah everything will get destroyed. (Surah Qasas 28:88)

 

Most commentators have said that ‘face’ means the self of Allah and everything would be destroyed before the day of Judgement and then created again. Some have said that it means the religion of Allah and His worship.

 

However, we have many hadiths that seem to give another deeper, inner meaning to it.

 

Imam Al-Sadiq  (as) said: Allah has made us in the best creation and bestowed us the best form (face) and appointed us as the caretaker of His creatures and bestowed us a tongue that testifies for Him and made us His wide hands for His creatures and appointed us as the face of Allah as we guide the people towards Him. And we are the treasurers of Allah in the Heavens and the earth. By our blessings trees bear fruits and reach perfection, and rivers flow. Due to our blessings rain falls from the sky and vegetation grows on the land. The worship of Allah is performed by witnessing our worship. If we were not there Allah would not have been worshipped. That we have taught the people the method of worshipping Allah as complete worship of Allah is not possible by others or because our Wilayat (Mastership) is a condition for acceptance of worship. If our Wilayat was not there no worship would have been accepted.

Source: Al-Tawheed, Sh. Sadooq, Chapter 12, Hadith #8, Page 151-152

 

If that's Shirk then i'm one HAPPY MUSHRIK !! May Allah always keeep me on this and Take my soul on this belief. we don't have to proof of anything, Allah will judge us, and he is the best  Judge.... 

 

O Allah, If I'm among mushrik in your eyes, while i'm on this belief then may Allah curse me, don't give me any respite and never show me his mercy and put me in Hell forever.... And If i'm not then may Allah bring me even closer to him, by rights of imams(AS)  And then those who are enemies and are jealous and envious of status of ahlulbayt(AS) and their shias near Allah including those who have doubts, May Allah guide them, as he knows the condition of hearts, and if they are still not guide able then May Allah destroy them, May Allah don't give them any respite and remove his mercy from them by the right of severed head and broken Ribs of Lady fatima(AS). Ameen

 

ok those two hadiths you posted have nothing concerning the topic of calling upon others than Allah in supplication. these are no proofs. one of them talks about thanking the prophet, yet thanking wouldn't even be classified as a call for help. it would be rather closer to a salawat. like sending peace upon the prophet .. not saying "oh prophet help me out here".

 

so where exactly did you find it's ok to pray to others than Allah? 

 

 

2nd Prayer,

 

O prophet(pbuh) of Allah or if it's imam Ali(AS) than O the Walli of Allah, O the Sincere Slave of Allah, You are the one through which I recognized Allah and through you I have known Allah; You are the face of Allah.... O my master Please pray for me..... Or O my master give me from the blessings that Allah has given you, and Allah has given you Everything, He(Swt) made you master of the universe.... Help me, for the sake of your Lord help me...

 

prayer and dua is not really included in any of your 'proof' here

 

can you get actual proof that contains the word "dua", like i did. and please point me to where you discussed the verses and hadiths i posted that actually do. i hope they are not just discussed with your opinion, but with actual evidence containing the word dua.

 

now this is your most classic statement yet! coming from a guy who keeps accusing me of having ego problems :)

 

 

If that's Shirk then i'm one HAPPY MUSHRIK !! 

 

very interesting that you don't call for guidance, forgiveness, repentance, or anything normal like that, which the prophets and ahlulbayt taught us. but you say

 

 

O Allah, If I'm among mushrik in your eyes, while i'm on this belief then may Allah curse me, don't give me any respite and never show me his mercy and put me in Hell forever.

 

never did i come across this kind of mentality and lack of fear . of God .

 

so, again, i would appreciate if you actually brought evidence of the topic, and not beat around the bush with hadiths talking about things that do not address praying to others than Allah. Also, you said this was discussed before:

 

 

H 3056, CH 2, h 2

Through the same chain of narrators it is narrated from Amir al-Mu’minin, Ali ibn abu Talib, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the following:

 

“Pleading before Allah for help is the key to success and the input for one’s well being. The best prayer is what comes out of a clean chest and pious heart. In pleading before Allah for help there is the means for salvation, in sincerity there is freedom and when distress intensifies, Allah is the only One before Whom one must implore for protection.” Al-Kafi Vol 2

 

 

 

 

And that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone. 72:18 

 

 

please tell me where, and if it is purely based on your opinion, or in relation to hadiths that don't include the word dua or prayer, then it's useless. 

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Okkkk^^^ proving to people like u is like proving existenence of Allah to an atheist, no matter how many evidence we brought people like u will will still say we haven't found any evidence for the existence of Allah; so is the case here. The one who is blind won't see any evidence but the one who has little but of insight sees everything.

The last prayer is enough for people like me.

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Okkkk^^^ proving to people like u is like proving existenence of Allah to an atheist, no matter how many evidence we brought people like u will will still say we haven't found any evidence for the existence of Allah; so is the case here. The one who is blind won't see any evidence but the one who has little but of insight sees everything.

The last prayer is enough for people like me.

 

oh so you don't have any evidence that actually talks about dua and prayer. interesting!

 

when you prove existence of God to someone, then God must be in the equation. you can't prove something concerning dua while discussing something totally unrelated to this verb and action.

 

at the same time you ignore the proof i get from the thaqalayn that talk about "dua" and prayer.

 

 

The last prayer is enough for people like me.

 

which prayer? the one to Allah or the one to Prophet or Imam Ali? ;)

 

 

again no evidence ,

 

like this one:

 

 

 

H 3056, CH 2, h 2

Through the same chain of narrators it is narrated from Amir al-Mu’minin, Ali ibn abu Talib, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the following:

 

“Pleading before Allah for help is the key to success and the input for one’s well being. The best prayer is what comes out of a clean chest and pious heart. In pleading before Allah for help there is the means for salvation, in sincerity there is freedom and when distress intensifies, Allah is the only One before Whom one must implore for protection.” Al-Kafi Vol 2

 

 

 

 

And that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone. 72:18

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ok those two hadiths you posted have nothing concerning the topic of calling upon others than Allah in supplication. these are no proofs. one of them talks about thanking the prophet, yet thanking wouldn't even be classified as a call for help. it would be rather closer to a salawat. like sending peace upon the prophet .. not saying "oh prophet help me out here".

so where exactly did you find it's ok to pray to others than Allah? 

 

 

prayer and dua is not really included in any of your 'proof' here

 

can you get actual proof that contains the word "dua", like i did. and please point me to where you discussed the verses and hadiths i posted that actually do. i hope they are not just discussed with your opinion, but with actual evidence containing the word dua.

 

 

 u r sooo blind in your arrogance and Ego, That's why you couldn't see... So i'll try to explain so your little tiny mind can understand.

 

Have you seen the way imam(As) used the verses ? HAve youn't seen the verse of Quran ‘Sufficient unto us is Allah! Allah and His Messenger will soon give us out of their Kindness.

 

it means not only Allah and prophet(pbuh) gave in past but still and will continue to GIVE out of their kindness.

"Now the question for you little mind, Why would he give unless you Ask from them ?

 

second, Imam(AS) thank Prophet(pbuh) because he is also the one who is giving the Rizq.... 

 

and here is the sunni explaining to wahabi which dua prophet(pbuh) himself taught to directly ask him After Allah.... The interesting thing is, This despicable person is asking the same question as you are asking us for days... and just like you he couldn't see the verse in the Quran with word "DUA"... so u r not the only one with lack of understanding, insight and full of arrogance, There are people of same caliber like yours.... now watch this....

 

 

Then REad Ziyarah Jamiah

 

Then Read Ziyarahs of imams

 

then read dua twasul

 

 

read hadiths Ul Qisa... For better understanding the status of ahlulbayt(AS)... And ponder how fatima(Sa) knew what Allah was telling Jiberil(as) while she was on earth.... !!! but may be it will way to too much for you.

 

 

 

 

very interesting that you don't call for guidance, forgiveness, repentance, or anything normal like that, which the prophets and ahlulbayt taught us. but you say

 

 

 

 

Again showing the lack of understanding and insight there, It all depends on a situtaion which dua one asks.... But no, U just have to find any fault to prove me wrong lol u r so obsessed with it. it's personal now from your side so i'm not going to answer you and ignore you. As a brotherly advise, you do bit more reading and reflecting  with neutral mind on the issue, inshallah Allah will guide and u can also reflect what we have posted,  Come after week or soo. Otherwise u won't understand anything. 

 

 

it would be rather closer to a salawat. like sending peace upon the prophet .. not saying "oh prophet help me out here".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again your obsession with finding fault.... and clear lack of understanding. Watch the video carefully so u'll know why i worded Directly " O Prophet(pbuh)" Oh! sorry but you don't believe he can help as he died 1400 hundred years ago and buried under grave.... while clearly ignoring the Verses of Quran

 

Where as Allah is telling those who are martryed in way of Allah don't call them dead. they alive and getting rizq from Allah... That was the station of Martryed but you are so blind can't tell the difference between the station of prophet(pbuh) and a martryer... How can a martyred be equal to prophet(pbuh) who is master of all the creation of Allah. ? But Nay, U won't understand.... Because of arrogance like wahabies and atheist have veiled your insight.

 

For people like you Imam sadiq(as) gives following answer:

 

 Imam Jafar al Sadiq   (as) said:  However, Allah says for you and people like you: “Will they then not meditate on the Quran, or are there locks on the hearts?” [Holy Quran 47:24] And says: “Nay, but that which they have earned is rust upon their hearts.” [Holy Quran 83:14]

 

And they only stayed in opposition because Allah and His Messenger enriched them out of His grace…” [Holy Quran 9:74]

 

 

 

 

never did i come across this kind of mentality and lack of fear . of God .

 

 

 

 

  I have the same feelings towards you... Just exactly like wahabi and ISIS you are trying so hard to get attention and prove us wrong. 

 

 

 

so, again, i would appreciate if you actually brought evidence of the topic, and not beat around the bush with hadiths talking about things that do not address praying to others than Allah. Also, you said this was discussed before:

 

please tell me where, and if it is purely based on your opinion, or in relation to hadiths that don't include the word dua or prayer, then it's useless. 

 

This demand of yours is like those who ask, Show me the name Ali and all the imams(AS) in Quran... !!

 

But in that video and ziyarahs u'll find that... They are teaching IF ONE wants to he call prophet(pbuh) directly" 

oh so you don't have any evidence that actually talks about dua and prayer. interesting!

 

when you prove existence of God to someone, then God must be in the equation. you can't prove something concerning dua while discussing something totally unrelated to this verb and action.

 

 

 

at the same time you ignore the proof i get from the thaqalayn that talk about "dua" and prayer.

 

 

which prayer? the one to Allah or the one to Prophet or Imam Ali? ;)

 

 

again no evidence ,

 

like this one:

I'll ignore that... 

 

 

And yes, Before some one like you, I'll prefer calling to prophet and Ali so u burn in jealous and exhume urseslf ;) LOL

 

H 3056, CH 2, h 2

Through the same chain of narrators it is narrated from Amir al-Mu’minin, Ali ibn abu Talib, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the following:

 

“Pleading before Allah for help is the key to success and the input for one’s well being. The best prayer is what comes out of a clean chest and pious heart. In pleading before Allah for help there is the means for salvation, in sincerity there is freedom and when distress intensifies, Allah is the only One before Whom one must implore for protection.” Al-Kafi Vol 2

 

 

 

 

And that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone. 72:18 

 

 

Indeed Allah is the only one, 

 

We aren't invoking anyone other than Allah... Like i said in the other Thread, some one from your side also asknowledge that words of mine in above posts some where... that Prophet(pbuh) isn't included in " Other than Allah" it refers to those who people call and implore whom Allah hasn't appointed as Divine Authority on It's creations....  Allah is content with saying this in Quran " Then be content what Allah and His Prophet(pbuh) has given you.

 

So Just like calling Obeying Prophet(pbuh) is Obeying Allah, similarly calling prophet(pbuh) is like Calling Allah.. BEcause all the blessing will come down from Allah. Like u'll understand this concept... !! 

 

here is the narrations,

 

Imam Al-Sadiq   (as) said: Allah has made us in the best creation and bestowed us the best form (face) and appointed us as the caretaker of His creatures and bestowed us a tongue that testifies for Him and made us His wide hands for His creatures and appointed us as the face of Allah as we guide the people towards Him. And we are the treasurers of Allah in the Heavens and the earth. By our blessings trees bear fruits and reach perfection, and rivers flow. Due to our blessings rain falls from the sky and vegetation grows on the land. The worship of Allah is performed by witnessing our worship. If we were not there Allah would not have been worshipped. That we have taught the people the method of worshipping Allah as complete worship of Allah is not possible by others or because our Wilayat (Mastership) is a condition for acceptance of worship. If our Wilayat was not there no worship would have been accepted.

Source: Al-Tawheed, Sh. Sadooq, Chapter 12, Hadith #8, Page 151-152

Edited by struggling_On

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Dear brother,

 

Do you believe it is better not to ask Allah swt for help directly, rather, to ask Ali a.s more often directly?

 

Another question brother, and don't take this in any wrong way, but do you believe the Imams a.s know the number of stars in the universe?

Edited by Tawheed313

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Dear brother,

 

Do you believe it is better not to ask Allah swt for help directly, rather, to ask Ali a.s more often directly?

 

Dear brother, 

 

this question of urs was answered so many times on other threads many times by other members... !!

 

So to remind you, I and people like me prefer to seek/ask Allah first but  at the same time there's no issue in seeking help from prophet(pbuh). We usually call to prophet(pbuh) so we can become close him(pbuh) through him to Allah. because in our intention Prophet(pbuh) is slave of Allah but not like us.

 

 both methods are perfectly fine, if it were not than Allah hadn't approved of it... At the End of the day purpose is to obey Allah and messenger... And both methods take you towards Allah and his(pbuh) messenger. 

Edited by struggling_On

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 u r sooo blind in your arrogance and Ego, That's why you couldn't see... 

 

look who's talking .. 

 

 

 

So i'll try to explain so your little tiny mind can understand.

 

 

 

"Now the question for you little mind, 

 

 

 

so u r not the only one with lack of understanding, insight and full of arrogance,   There are people of same caliber like yours  ((as) This despicable person).

 

 

Because of arrogance like wahabies and atheist have veiled your insight.

 

 

 

And yes, Before some one like you, I'll prefer calling to prophet and Ali so u burn in jealous and exhume urseslf  ;) LOL

 

 

Just exactly like wahabi and ISIS you are trying so hard to get attention and prove us wrong. 

 

.. and that's from one post alone! masha Allah. seems your prayers to prophets and imams have not helped your akhlaq. (how much hate you have mash Allah )

 

so, anyway to your false points ..

 

1 - again!!!! you didn't bring a single narration or quran verse about dua and calling for help to others than Allah. And no!!!! you can't compare this with sunis saying imam ali isn't expicitly mentioned in quran. because it is explicitly mentioned in the quran that we should not make dua to others than Allah .. like here!

 

And that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone. 72:18 

 

2 - your logic about prophets being givers of rizq and using this as a reason to debate dua, doesn't make sense either. first of all, mothers give rizq to their children too via their milk, yet their kids should not make dua to their moms, should they!?!? second of all, this statement is very dangerous:

 

 

 

So Just like calling Obeying Prophet(pbuh) is Obeying Allah, similarly calling prophet(pbuh) is like Calling Allah

 

 

then you might as well saying worshiping Prophet is worshiping Allah. ..

 

didn't prophet mohamed say:

 

Du’a’ is indeed a worship.1 

 

إنَّ الدُّعَاءَ هُوَ العِبَادَةُ.

 

so next step is .. worship of prophet is worship of Allah .. as you already said in earlier post #38 that you pray to the prophet. 

 

3 - the argument about martyrs being alive at their Lord receiving rizq .. first of all this verse proves that Martyrs are the ones receiving rizq and it shows that they are with their Lord. There is no talk about them being everywhere, nor any hint of us asking them for help. Again no evidence whatsoever of this topic. 

 

4 - you said "We aren't invoking anyone other than Allah" Then what do you call dua and prayer as in post #38. (prayer #2)

 

5- 

 

 

Prophet(pbuh) isn't included in " Other than Allah" it refers to those who people call and implore whom Allah hasn't appointed as Divine Authority on It's creations

 

 

Mr. I-only-Accept-interpretation-of-imam-Ali .. can you bring the evidence for this from quran and ahadeeth. how can you come with such a sweeping statement without proof. you expect us to take your word for it??! are you some kind of prophet or imam yourself or what!?!?!? 

 

where does it say in any book that this is the case .. because Allah clearly says "other than Him" in His "clear" Book. 

 

6 -

 

 

" Then be content what Allah and His Prophet(pbuh) has given you.

 

ok, so you admit that Allah is partnering up with the Prophet in rizq, therefore we should ask both Allah and prophet for our needs. so how do you divide the things up you ask for? in the morning you ask Allah and in the evening you ask the prophet? or vice versa? and by the way i meant to ask ..

 

how many times do you pray to the prophet? how many times to imam ali ? also 5 each? so it's Allah 5, then prophet 5, then imam ali 5 ? as you described in post #38? do you make sujud to Ali a.s as well? tell us your technique in prayer, dua and calling for things from Ali .. as you said .. 

 

 

 

calling prophet(pbuh) is like Calling Allah

 

 

Allah has no partners, He is al-Razaq, and we are only to pray and make dua to Allah

 

7 - Prophets and Ahlulbayt are Walys, therefore we should make dua and pray to them

 

where is the connection between being a Waly and being partner with God? Allah la sharikala .. remember this term .. Allah has no partners. And what is connection between being best of creation and making dua to them?

 

 

 

 

 

conclusion:

 

again you failed at bringing a single hadith or quran verse that actually points at the subject at hand. I brought you clear verses and clear hadiths that do so, talking about dua and asking for help in supplication.

 

furthermore, your akhlaq has been getting out of hand, and your obviously visible anger has blinded you further it seems. anger creates blindness, and look up at how many personal accusations and insults you threw at me. did i ever once even do that to you? did i ever compare you with yazid or tell you that you are jealous of ahlulbayt (basically nasibi)? did i tell you that your mind is small? that you lack understanding, insight and that you are exactly like a 'despicable' wahabi? did i insinuate to you that you are deliberately manipulating verses and hadiths? no! i like to prove things and not get emotional and all drama about things without proof or base..

 

think about it .. think about your behavior, and personally i don't really care. i made up my mind about you, an unless God decides to change you, i'll have you in that box along with other akhlaqless haters. do you see how much hate you have in your heart. you dedicated this verse above to me ..

 

let me dedicate this one to you:

 

 

 

Here you are loving them but they are not loving you, while you believe in the Scripture - all of it. And when they meet you, they say, "We believe." But when they are alone, they bite their fingertips at you in rage. Say, "Die in your rage. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of that within the breasts."3:119

 

let's go on with this till one of us is martyred or dies .. come on! let me show you how wrong you are and help me by exposing yourself further. thank you! really, thank you .. you are building more certainty in my heart about this. La ilaha il Allah la ilaha ilAllah .. wahdahu lasharikala .. lahul mulk walahulhamd yuhee wayumeet wa howa aala kul shay'in qadir! Allahu Akbar! 

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look who's talking .. 

 

 

 

This was all that not to prove you wrong but to make you more angry and firm in your whabi like belief. 

 

i wish i had that much time and desire to prove some one wrong as you do, i will.... go to your level and do it....

 

But sadly i don't have that much time....

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what? you are insulting me and now you keep going and call me a wahabi. keep continuing like this and you'll get banned because your akhlaq is getting worse and worse. 

 

and you call me "arrogant" and full of "hate"


you have no proof!! nada! not a single verse from quran nor a hadith .. not one

 

all are indirect things that talk about something else. while i have proof that is directly about this mash Allah walhamdulilah!

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what? you are insulting me and now you keep going and call me a wahabi. keep continuing like this and you'll get banned because your akhlaq is getting worse and worse. 

 

and you call me "arrogant" and full of "hate"

 

Well, my bad for calling you of tiny brain that's what i think of wahabies... sorry though...

 

I didn't insult you... I just showed you who else think the way you do and who else ask the same kind of proofs that you seek... especially with word dua.

 

And i seek your apologies for calling you of tiny brain, i'm sorry... ! 

 

To be honest, i can  only pray for you. 

 

May be one day you'll understand.... 

Edited by struggling_On

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oh, so this is no insult?

 

you are running away as usual and denying the things you write?

 

 

did you pray to mohamed today? how many times do you pray to imams and prophets a day?

 

Well if u see above i have already apologised for that... 

 

 

Actually i haven't tbh... Thanks for reminding may Allah reward u for that. :)

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and don't you dare pray for me by praying to others than Allah .. i don't want responsibility for this


Well if u see above i have already apologised for that... 

 

 

Actually i haven't tbh... Thanks for reminding may Allah reward u for that. :)

 

apologized? where? i didn't see any apology since you compared me to yazid and accused me of being a nasibi .. and intentionally manipulate quran.

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and don't you dare pray for me by praying to others than Allah .. i don't want responsibility for this

 

apologized? where? i didn't see any apology since you compared me to yazid and accused me of being a nasibi .. and intentionally manipulate quran.

 

first of all i apologies for calling you of tiny brain...

 

 

and for last part you misunderstood i don't have any responsibility what you understand. I just showed you they used to do the same things.... 

Edited by struggling_On

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first of all i apologies for calling you of tiny brain...

 

 

and for last part you misunderstood i don't have any responsibility what you understand. I just showed you they used to do the same things.... 

 

sorry, you need to apologize for comparing me to yazid and referring to me as a nasibi, you don't have to, but i'd advise it. because that is zulm against me

but thank you for apologizing for that at least ..

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sorry, you need to apologize for comparing me to yazid and referring to me as a nasibi, you don't have to, but i'd advise it. because that is zulm against me

but thank you for apologizing for that at least ..

 

first of all, i didn't compare you to yazid... i just explained the point which u didn't understand... 

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you said "Yazid also thought he knew Quran" .. in reference to my quran proofs .. so obviously that also is in reference to me .. 

 

you can't fool me. of course you can avoid apologizing and admitting there is something wrong with this statement, but not for long. latest in judgment day i'll get my right in sha Allah

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stuggling_on , your behavior is not islamic and aggressive.a pious Person should not behave like this

 

 

Well i apologised where i felt i was wrong... and i apologise again... i shouldn't have called him of tiny brain... My BAD !!

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additionally you clearly accused me of being jealous of ahlulbayt station .. that is nasibism .. not gona admit that one either?


Well i apologised where i felt i was wrong... and i apologise again... i shouldn't have called him of tiny brain... My BAD !!

 

what about using language that logically associates me and compares me to yazid, wahabis and isis? is that ok ? you would like if i told you that you were just like them? stop playing around 

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you said "Yazid also thought he knew Quran" .. in reference to my quran proofs .. so obviously that also is in reference to me .. 

 

you can't fool me. of course you can avoid apologizing and admitting there is something wrong with this statement, but not for long. latest in judgment day i'll get my right in sha Allah

 

Well didn't he thought he knew quran so did mawviyah so did likes of them... abu hanifa etc.... 

 

So they all thought they knew quran and finally was mislead by the same ideology.

 

and to ur interpretation this is the reason i can't accept any other interpretation except imam ali(AS). all those interpret quran they think they are right.

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Well didn't he thought he knew quran so did mawviyah so did likes of them... abu hanifa etc.... 

 

So they all thought they knew quran and finally was mislead by the same ideology.

 

and to ur interpretation this is the reason i can't accept any other interpretation except imam ali(AS). all those interpret quran they think they are right.

 

yes, so you compared me to yazid muwawya isis and wahabis ... you think that is ok?

 

imam ali said treat people like you want to be treated.

 

at least now you admit you compared me to them

 

 

and again concerning my interpretations: you didn't even read them, which you admitted and you didn't notice that there were ahlubayt hadiths supporting it

so you compared me to yazid and accused me of nasb without even reading my text .. you think that is ok.. ?

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additionally you clearly accused me of being jealous of ahlulbayt station .. that is nasibism .. not gona admit that one either?

 

what about using language that logically associates me and compares me to yazid, wahabis and isis? is that ok ? you would like if i told you that you were just like them? stop playing around 

 

 

well that's your assumption.... I didn't mention u and i explained i  mentioned whole bunch of people... that was referred to group of people who hold such ideology, i feel sorry and i always did that u thought u were among them... :(

 

but it was rather towards the yazid like ideologies that i was referring to not you or anyone for that matter... but that's when it all started and u took it all personal i tried to explain but u again and again same thing  "u can't fool me "  

 

I just wish u could see the bigger picture.

 

If i can be compared to having mushrik like ideologies.... did i say something ? i just say who ever think some one mushrik hold ISIS like ideologoy

Edited by struggling_On

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i am among them and you know it. and you said this yazid thing while talking to me after i showed you my interpretations. and the nasb was also directly to me. so i guess you wont apologize. i wont force you. 

 

so you wont even apologize for directly calling me a nasibi? by saying im "jealous of ahlulbayt station" .. just like Yazid ???

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yes, so you compared me to yazid muwawya isis and wahabis ... you think that is ok?

 

imam ali said treat people like you want to be treated.

 

at least now you admit you compared me to them

 

 

and again concerning my interpretations: you didn't even read them, which you admitted and you didn't notice that there were ahlubayt hadiths supporting it

so you compared me to yazid and accused me of nasb without even reading my text .. you think that is ok.. ?

 

Again u misunderstood, i said, i read it and but i don't have that much time to find faults in it and explain everything to you.

 

if u keep playing victim on that u did on the other thread it's not going to help. I was having conversation with brother strugglingforlight... you jumped in... he was differring with me on the same things and he didn't even say anything. 

 

but u took it all personal...  and u r not admitting it. so what can i do....

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and i never directly attacked you .. i only spoke about ideologies. i didn't mention names nor did i say "you are like .." .. or "you hate ,,"  .. or "you are jealous of .."


Again u misunderstood, i said, i read it and but i don't have that much time to find faults in it and explain everything to you.

 

if u keep playing victim on that u did on the other thread it's not going to help. I was having conversation with brother strugglingforlight... you jumped in... he was differring with me on the same things and he didn't even say anything. 

 

but u took it all personal...  and u r not admitting it. so what can i do....

 

if brother XYZ doesn't stand up for his right, that's not my problem. i will. and until my last dying breath in sha Allah

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and i never directly attacked you .. i only spoke about ideologies. i didn't mention names nor did i say "you are like .." .. or "you hate ,,"  .. or "you are jealous of .."

 

 

 

Tbh, where i personally attacked u i appologised, but i can't apologise for the general statement.... 

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and i never directly attacked you .. i only spoke about ideologies. i didn't mention names nor did i say "you are like .." .. or "you hate ,,"  .. or "you are jealous of .."

 

if brother XYZ doesn't stand up for his right, that's not my problem. i will. and until my last dying breath in sha Allah

 

well... this is the problem that u think u are among them...

 

he doesn't think he is among them so he didn't say anything. that's where u took it personal, that's what i was trying to tell u from that day.... 

so i guess you didn't learn anything yet. i will stop asking you to apologize for calling me nasibi and comparing me to yazid etc ... now i have better things to do. but i will expose your false ideologies till the end in sha Allah ///

 

 

again... u keep saying the same thing. if u assume urself, to be a nasibi and like yazid then what can i doo..... 

 

 

okay, then don't waste others SC members time by commenting uselessly... if u have something personal with me now... then i can send u my address or u name the place may be one day we can meet there and settle it.... like gentlemen.  May be over cup of tea or dinner etc. 

Edited by struggling_On

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well... this is the problem that u think u are among them...

 

he doesn't think he is among them so he didn't say anything. that's where u took it personal, that's what i was trying to tell u from that day.... 

 

 

again... u keep saying the same thing. if u assume urself, to be a nasibi and like yazid then what can i doo..... 

 

 

okay, then don't waste other SC comment... if u have something personal with me now... then i can send u my address or u name the place may be one day we can meet there and settle it.... like gentlemen. 

 

like gentlemen? only one of us is a gentleman! you haven't been gentle at all .. i'm the wahabi-like minded person remember? the one who hates ahlubayt station .. the one who is jealous of them .. people like you i don't expect to settle things like gentlemen at all, unless they show signs of improvement / guidance from God.

 

i don't need your address. the angels can find you wherever you go, and God can root you out from anywhere. And if it's naseeb that we meet, then that would be pleasure .. or something i've been dreaming of since you first started accusing me of stuff. It will happen one day don't worry. one day you'll be faced with me in sha Allah // latest in Judgment day in sha Allah

 

now go pray to whoever you pray, and i'll pray to God alone in sha Allah

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so i guess you didn't learn anything yet. i will stop asking you to apologize for calling me nasibi and comparing me to yazid etc ... now i have better things to do. but i will expose your false ideologies till the end in sha Allah ///

 

u haven't learnt anything urself... from day one i told u it's not personal... but you keep making it personal, that's why i told u brother u have ego issues. and that u too u took it in wrong way. u r not accepting ur mistake, that u got angry over general statement and became obsessed by saying things like u r going to expose my falsehood. while i explained in that thread very clearly it wasn't referred to you but an ideologies that killed imams(AS) and still killing many innocent people.

 

 

And Strugglin_on doesn't want anyone to follow what he follows. I don't want anyone to follow what I say. it's only for me.

like gentlemen? only one of us is a gentleman! you haven't been gentle at all .. i'm the wahabi-like minded person remember? the one who hates ahlubayt station .. the one who is jealous of them .. people like you i don't expect to settle things like gentlemen at all, unless they show signs of improvement / guidance from God.

 

i don't need your address. the angels can find you wherever you go, and God can root you out from anywhere. And if it's naseeb that we meet, then that would be pleasure .. or something i've been dreaming of since you first started accusing me of stuff. It will happen one day don't worry. one day you'll be faced with me in sha Allah // latest in Judgment day in sha Allah

 

now go pray to whoever you pray, and i'll pray to God alone in sha Allah

 

lool... i forgot u Mr right here, Well done.... 

 

all those things that u said, u assumed all by urself, i'm not responsible what you make out of a general statement. u took all personal. 

 

let me be mushrik okay !! and i'm happy in it. that's what u accused people like us. Now u r acting victim... Good job... May Allah have mercy on you.

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@struggling_On I have read what you wrote before in this discussion and I think you first of all should learn to respect other peoples opinions and stop accusing them in such an offensive way. There are still many things that you can learn from the user Peace Seeker II who is arguing absolutely correctly and on spot. With such a behaviour there wont be many people in future who want to continue discussing with you I am afraid. Try to keep that in mind please.

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