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In the Name of God بسم الله

The Anger Of Fatimah A.s. Explained By A Sunni

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I notice the possibility that two hadith that contradict eachother both can be sahih as in the case of the funeral prayer for Lady Fatima a.s. for example.

eThErEal posted two narrations wherein is claimed that Abu Bakr did the funeral prayer for her a.s. and another wherein Imam Ali a.s. refused to do it himself and insisted Abu Bakr to do it (the other side of the story claim).

 

It seems clear to you because you are just deluding yourselves with your sentiments and baseless assumptions. There is always the other side of the story:

1) Hammad narrate from Ibrahim Nakhi that Hz. Abu Bakr[ra] lead salah-e-Janaza of Bibi Fatima Bint Muhammad[ra] with four Takbeers [ Tabqaat(Ibn Saad) Vol 8, Page 16]

2) 4) When Hz. Fatima[ra] died Hz. Abu Bakr[ra] and Hz. Umar[ra] came, Hz. Abu Bakr[ra] asked Hz. Ali[ra] to lead prayer, Hz.Ali[ra] declined and said in presence of Khalifa of RasoolAllah[saw] how can I.
[ Ali Mutaqi Al Nahdi author of Kanzal Amaal Vol 6 page 318, narrated through Khatib from Baqir]

 


While Sahih Bukhari tells us unambiguously that no one else than Imam Ali a.s. himself did AND her burial AND her funeral prayer.

 

When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself.

Sahih Bukhari (Book #59, Hadith #546)

http://www.searchtru...search_word=all

 




So tell me dear sunni brothers of mine. How can I take your gradations of unreliable, reliable, hasan, sahih etc. seriously?



 

Edited by Iskandarovich
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I notice the possibility that two hadith that contradict eachother both can be sahih as in the case of the funeral prayer for Lady Fatima a.s. for example.

eThErEal posted two narrations wherein is claimed that Abu Bakr did the funeral prayer for her a.s. and another wherein Imam Ali a.s. refused to do it himself and insisted Abu Bakr to do it (the other side of the story claim).

 

While Sahih Bukhari tells us unambiguously that no one else than Imam Ali a.s. himself did AND her burial AND her funeral prayer.

 

So tell me dear sunni brothers of mine. How can I take your gradations of unreliable, reliable, hasan, sahih etc. seriously?

 

Seyyeda Fatima (as) was well pleased with Abu Bakr (ra).  She was silent after that event not because she was angry but because she didnt want to bring it up again.  The word "angry" is explained by hadith scholars as being "mudraj", something which was added to the words of Aisha.  The other narratives do not mention any anger by Seyyeda Fatima (as).  The fact that she was burried in the middle of the night was not uncommon.  There is a hadith about the Prophet (S) being notified of a companion who was burried at night.  when he asked why no one informed him about it they told him that the man had passed away at night and they didnt want to distrub the Prophet (S) in the middle of the night.  So the Prophet (S) went to the man's grave to say the funeral prayer himself.  Also Fatimah (as) was burried without others knowing about it because of her "haya" as a noble and respectable woman (as).  Abu Bakr and others must have inquired about her and therefore the funeral prayer must have been performed again but this time by Abu Bakr.  

 

I think the only hadith you brought up which may prove your side of the story is the hadith in "Al-Imamah was Siyasah".  If Ibn Qutayba really did write that book then why was he Sunni?  But when I look at that hadith about Fatimah (as) cursing Abu Bakr it makes me wonder who in his right mind would believe in it (astaghfirullah!!!!!)  even if (auzubillah) Abu Bakr (ra) was "evil", you really think Fatimah (as) would tell Abu Bakr, (after being asked for forgiveness mind you), that she would curse him after EVERY PRAYER??  

WHAT KIND OF RESPECT do you people who call yourselves "SHIA" have for Fatima (as) that you would attribute such behaviours to her (as).  ASTAGHFIRULLAH.  Who do you think Fatima (as) was?  You don't believe she was compassionate and forgiving that even after being asked for forgiveness she would REFUSE, and then on top of that she would curse?  what religion do you guys follow???  This is Shaytan here at play.  CLEARLY.  sorry for my capital letters.   :)  I just cant resist!   

 

Now assuming she (as) really did curse Abu Bakr.  Why are you so called  "Shias of Fatima" so ashamed of practicing what she did in front of everyone? Why would Ayatullah Khameini issue a fatwa to forbid you guys from cursing Abu Bakr?   You guys should be calling this BIDA!  You should thinking that Khamenei is going DIRECTLY against the Sunah of Fatimah (as)!  You see what I mean?  These things don't add up.  one the one hand you believe she cursed.  on the othr hand you guys are ashamed to publicly curse because it"causes fitnah".  IF you believe it causes fitnah why would Fatimah (as) do something that would "cause fitnah"?  

 

Please use Aql.

Ma'salama

Ethereal

Edited by eThErEaL
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Imam Zainal Abideen [as] also cursed enemies of Imams [as] and their supporters and followers:

 

O God,
this station belongs to Thy vicegerents, Thy chosen,
while the places of Thy trusted ones
in the elevated degree which Thou hast singled out for them
have been forcibly stripped!254
But Thou art the Ordainer of that -
Thy command is not overcome,
the inevitable in Thy governing is not overstepped!
However Thou willest and whenever Thou willest!
In that which Thou knowest best,
Thou art not accused for Thy creation or Thy will!
Then Thy selected friends, Thy vicegerents,
were overcome, vanquished, forcibly stripped;
they see Thy decree replaced,
Thy Book discarded,
Thy obligations distorted from the aims of Thy laws,
and the Sunna of Thy Prophet abandoned! 

O God,
curse their enemies among those of old and the later folk,
and all those pleased with their acts,
and their supporters and followers! 

 

This whole unity thing is a bida, yes live peacefully, but if I was living in the time of Isa, i would not want unity with his deniers and supporters of his enemies, the same is true of deniers of Ahlulbayt and supporters of their enemies, such people are a cursed people.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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Imam Zainal Abideen [as] also cursed enemies of Imams [as] and their supporters and followers:

 

O God,

this station belongs to Thy vicegerents, Thy chosen,

while the places of Thy trusted ones

in the elevated degree which Thou hast singled out for them

have been forcibly stripped!254

But Thou art the Ordainer of that -

Thy command is not overcome,

the inevitable in Thy governing is not overstepped!

However Thou willest and whenever Thou willest!

In that which Thou knowest best,

Thou art not accused for Thy creation or Thy will!

Then Thy selected friends, Thy vicegerents,

were overcome, vanquished, forcibly stripped;

they see Thy decree replaced,

Thy Book discarded,

Thy obligations distorted from the aims of Thy laws,

and the Sunna of Thy Prophet abandoned! 

O God,

curse their enemies among those of old and the later folk,

and all those pleased with their acts,

and their supporters and followers! 

 

This whole unity thing is a bida, yes live peacefully, but if I was living in the time of Isa, i would not want unity with his deniers and supporters of his enemies, the same is true of deniers of Ahlulbayt and supporters of their enemies, such people are a cursed people.

Salam,

 

Dua 48 Regarding Eid Al Adha (Day of Sacrifice). Sahifa Sajjadiyya.  You should try to reference your quotes next time inshallah.

 

He (as) is condemning or cursing the Umayyad Dynasty and those that support them.  

 

I agree with this.     

Edited by eThErEaL
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  Who do you think Fatima (as) was?  You don't believe she was compassionate and forgiving that even after being asked for forgiveness she would REFUSE, and then on top of that she would curse?  what religion do you guys follow???  This is Shaytan here at play.  CLEARLY.  sorry for my capital letters.   :)  I just cant resist!   

 

...Now assuming she  (as) really did curse Abu Bakr.  Why are you so called  "Shias of Fatima" so ashamed of practicing what she did in front of everyone? Why would Ayatullah Khameini issue a fatwa to forbid you guys from cursing Abu Bakr?   You guys should be calling this BIDA!  You should thinking that Khamenei is going DIRECTLY against the Sunah of Fatimah  (as)!  You see what I mean?  These things don't add up.  one the one hand you believe she cursed.  on the othr hand you guys are ashamed to publicly curse because it"causes fitnah".  IF you believe it causes fitnah why would Fatimah  (as) do something that would "cause fitnah"?  

 

Please use Aql.

 

(bismillah)

(salam)

 

Let us use aql then bro...

 

She(sa) was clearly a distinguisher between a sincere person and a munafiq. Forgiveness is to undo your actions in deed and not just in words.

 

 

Also Quran is sevser and punishes not the unknowing but the deniers. This is probably difficult for you to understand and the fatwas that follow. Also do not curse the false gods.

 

(wasalam)

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Seyyeda Fatima (as) was well pleased with Abu Bakr (ra).  She was silent after that event not because she was angry but because she didnt want to bring it up again.  The word "angry" is explained by hadith scholars as being "mudraj", something which was added to the words of Aisha.  The other narratives do not mention any anger by Seyyeda Fatima (as).  The fact that she was burried in the middle of the night was not uncommon.  There is a hadith about the Prophet (S) being notified of a companion who was burried at night.  when he asked why no one informed him about it they told him that the man had passed away at night and they didnt want to distrub the Prophet (S) in the middle of the night.  So the Prophet (S) went to the man's grave to say the funeral prayer himself.  Also Fatimah (as) was burried without others knowing about it because of her "haya" as a noble and respectable woman (as).  Abu Bakr and others must have inquired about her and therefore the funeral prayer must have been performed again but this time by Abu Bakr.  

 

I think the only hadith you brought up which may prove your side of the story is the hadith in "Al-Imamah was Siyasah".  If Ibn Qutayba really did write that book then why was he Sunni?  But when I look at that hadith about Fatimah (as) cursing Abu Bakr it makes me wonder who in his right mind would believe in it (astaghfirullah!!!!!)  even if (auzubillah) Abu Bakr (ra) was "evil", you really think Fatimah (as) would tell Abu Bakr, (after being asked for forgiveness mind you), that she would curse him after EVERY PRAYER??  

WHAT KIND OF RESPECT do you people who call yourselves "SHIA" have for Fatima (as) that you would attribute such behaviours to her (as).  ASTAGHFIRULLAH.  Who do you think Fatima (as) was?  You don't believe she was compassionate and forgiving that even after being asked for forgiveness she would REFUSE, and then on top of that she would curse?  what religion do you guys follow???  This is Shaytan here at play.  CLEARLY.  sorry for my capital letters.   :)  I just cant resist!   

 

Now assuming she (as) really did curse Abu Bakr.  Why are you so called  "Shias of Fatima" so ashamed of practicing what she did in front of everyone? Why would Ayatullah Khameini issue a fatwa to forbid you guys from cursing Abu Bakr?   You guys should be calling this BIDA!  You should thinking that Khamenei is going DIRECTLY against the Sunah of Fatimah (as)!  You see what I mean?  These things don't add up.  one the one hand you believe she cursed.  on the othr hand you guys are ashamed to publicly curse because it"causes fitnah".  IF you believe it causes fitnah why would Fatimah (as) do something that would "cause fitnah"?  

 

Please use Aql.

Ma'salama

Ethereal

و علیکم سلام 

 

Excellent post!

 

And is the fabricated report attributed to Sayeda Fatima [ra] even authentic according to Shia standards? 

Edited by Abul Hussain Hassani
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Seyyeda Fatima (as) was well pleased with Abu Bakr (ra).  She was silent after that event not because she was angry but because she didnt want to bring it up again.  The word "angry" is explained by hadith scholars as being "mudraj", something which was added to the words of Aisha.  The other narratives do not mention any anger by Seyyeda Fatima (as).  The fact that she was burried in the middle of the night was not uncommon.  There is a hadith about the Prophet (S) being notified of a companion who was burried at night.  when he asked why no one informed him about it they told him that the man had passed away at night and they didnt want to distrub the Prophet (S) in the middle of the night.  So the Prophet (S) went to the man's grave to say the funeral prayer himself.  Also Fatimah (as) was burried without others knowing about it because of her "haya" as a noble and respectable woman (as).  Abu Bakr and others must have inquired about her and therefore the funeral prayer must have been performed again but this time by Abu Bakr.  

 

I think the only hadith you brought up which may prove your side of the story is the hadith in "Al-Imamah was Siyasah".  If Ibn Qutayba really did write that book then why was he Sunni?  But when I look at that hadith about Fatimah (as) cursing Abu Bakr it makes me wonder who in his right mind would believe in it (astaghfirullah!!!!!)  even if (auzubillah) Abu Bakr (ra) was "evil", you really think Fatimah (as) would tell Abu Bakr, (after being asked for forgiveness mind you), that she would curse him after EVERY PRAYER??  

WHAT KIND OF RESPECT do you people who call yourselves "SHIA" have for Fatima (as) that you would attribute such behaviours to her (as).  ASTAGHFIRULLAH.  Who do you think Fatima (as) was?  You don't believe she was compassionate and forgiving that even after being asked for forgiveness she would REFUSE, and then on top of that she would curse?  what religion do you guys follow???  This is Shaytan here at play.  CLEARLY.  sorry for my capital letters.   :)  I just cant resist!   

 

Now assuming she (as) really did curse Abu Bakr.  Why are you so called  "Shias of Fatima" so ashamed of practicing what she did in front of everyone? Why would Ayatullah Khameini issue a fatwa to forbid you guys from cursing Abu Bakr?   You guys should be calling this BIDA!  You should thinking that Khamenei is going DIRECTLY against the Sunah of Fatimah (as)!  You see what I mean?  These things don't add up.  one the one hand you believe she cursed.  on the othr hand you guys are ashamed to publicly curse because it"causes fitnah".  IF you believe it causes fitnah why would Fatimah (as) do something that would "cause fitnah"?  

 

Please use Aql.

Ma'salama

Ethereal

So he felt sorry? 

Well, did he gave it back then?

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He was cursing all their enemies, from the first and last of people and their supporters and followers.

Right.  I know. But you are assuming that Abu Bakr (ra) was their enemy!  

 

(bismillah)

(salam)

 

Let us use aql then bro...

 

She(sa) was clearly a distinguisher between a sincere person and a munafiq. Forgiveness is to undo your actions in deed and not just in words.

 

 

Also Quran is sevser and punishes not the unknowing but the deniers. This is probably difficult for you to understand and the fatwas that follow. Also do not curse the false gods.

 

(wasalam)

 

 

Brother, wa alaykum salam!

 

So Abu Bakr was VERY SADDENED by the fact that his hands were tied in not being able to give to Fatimah possession of Fadak because of what he heard from the Prophet (S).  He mentioned over and over again that he had no intention of hurting them or depriving the Family of Muhammad (as).  He went to her to ask for her forgiveness.  Why would he do that?  You really think he is just paying lip service?  No, it is because he respected her a lot and asked for her forgiveness even though he felt he was right about his judgement!  Which doesnt mean that Fatimah (as) was wrong.  He also understood her reasons very well but he also couldn't deny what he heard from the Prophet (S).  He felt a responsibility not to go against what he heard from the Prophet (S).  Both of them were right.  They just manifested two aspects of the same truth.  One was defending the Zahir and the other was standing up for the Batin.  And in this world of imperfection these two complementary poles (like te Yin and Yang of Taoist cosmology) will have an interplay in order to manifest the One and only Transcendnet reality whcih is Beyond opposition and which is the Coincidence of all opposites.  

 

 

You should follow the footsteps of the Infallibles if you claim they cursed Abu Bakr (ra) then you should curse him to.  If they cursed openly you should do that as well.  But let me guess...  this will make "Shias" look very bad and will not be good for their da'wa right?  So this is a predicament you guys are in.  You see your fitrah KNOWS that to cause FITNAH is disastrous and immoral.  Yet you attribute this to an Infallible like Fatimah (as) may God bless her and grant us her intercession.  Ilahi Ameen.       

Edited by eThErEaL
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Abu Baker was just the ruler in the time of Fatima and people knew he was in the wrong and doing injustice to Ali and Fatima and usurping the right of Allah and Wilayah of Allah.

 

He wasn't anyone's holy figure or important central figure like he is now to Sunnis at that time. He was a ruler and a large amount of people didn't even what to give zakat to him in the beginning, till he waged war against them regarding that.

 

People would not use it as ammunition against Fatima like people do it to cause hatred between people now.

 

Therefore there is difference in situation.

 

However, I believe despite this, we should curse him, openly and secretly.

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However, I believe despite this, we should curse him, openly and secretly.

what about the fatwa by Khamenei and Seestani?

 

I guess you would rather be in the camp of a Yassir Al-HAbib. 

Can you imagine if he were a leader of a nation!  Lord have mercy on us.    

 

So you curse them after every prayer as well?  

Edited by eThErEaL
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Right.  I know. But you are assuming that Abu Bakr (ra) was their enemy!  

 

Brother, wa alaykum salam!

 

So Abu Bakr was VERY SADDENED by the fact that his hands were tied in not being able to give to Fatimah possession of Fadak because of what he heard from the Prophet (S).  He mentioned over and over again that he had no intention of hurting them or depriving the Family of Muhammad (as).  He went to her to ask for her forgiveness.  Why would he do that?  You really think he is just paying lip service?  No, it is because he respected her a lot and asked for her forgiveness even though he felt he was right about his judgement!  Which doesnt mean that Fatimah (as) was wrong.  He also understood her reasons very well but he also couldn't deny what he heard from the Prophet (S).  He felt a responsibility to go against what he heard from the Prophet (S).  Both of them were right.  They just manifested two aspects of the same truth.  One was defending the Zahir and the other was standing up for the Batin.  And in this world of imperfection these two complementary poles are (like te Yin and Yang of Taoist cosmology) will have an interplay in order to manifest the One and only Transcendnet reality.  

 

 

You should follow the footsteps of the Infallibles if you claim they cursed Abu Bakr (ra) then you should curse him to.  If they cursed openly you should do that as well.  But let me guess...  this will make "Shias" look very bad and will not be good for their da'wa right?  So this is a predicament you guys are in.  You see your fitrah KNOWS that to cause FITNAH is disastrous and immoral.  Yet you attribute this to an Infallible like Fatimah (as) may God bless her and grant us her intercession.  Ilahi Ameen.       

In the traditions of the Ahlul Bayt a.s. Abu Bakr and Umar are responsible for all the trials and tribulations which would follow their regimes as a logical result and consequence of neglecting the Will of Allah. 

The Umayyads which you despise so much would never come into power if Abu Bakr obeyed the Will of Allah. 

Second of all it's kinda strange that you accept the reign of Abu bakr as the Will of Allah and the reign of the Umayyads not. 

You should rather accept the election of Imam Ali a.s. by Allah then the both above which were human affairs and not legitimized by revelations of Allah through the Prophet s.a.w.

Even Umar admitted that there was nothing Godly at the election at Saqifah and that the muslims should be happy they were protected against fitna from it while he didn't knew the fitna already started.

 

Edited by Iskandarovich
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So he felt sorry? 

Well, did he gave it back then?

If your best friend requested you to do something but you couldnt do it because your hands were tied.  Then you would still apologize and make sure to win his pleasure even if you could not fulfill his wishes.  

 

 

In the traditions of the Ahlul Bayt a.s. Abu Bakr and Umar are responsible for all the trials and tribulations which would follow their regimes as a as a logical result and consequence of neglegting the Will of Allah. 

I wont take your word for it. 

Edited by eThErEaL
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what about the fatwa by Khamenei and Seestani?

 

I guess you would rather be in the camp of a Yassir Al-HAbib. 

Can you imagine if he were a leader of a nation!  Lord have mercy on us.    

I don't believe in Taqleed except as a practical way to know what hadiths state. I don't believe in this notion of following ijtehad of a scholar, as opposed to simply a way to know what hadiths rule regarding a matter with the best ability to approach the hadiths and literature of rijaal. The thing is from my perspective some of what Shia scholars teach contradicts Quran. Therefore this notion you have to stick to one scholar or what not, instead of following most of what is universally agreed upon and making somewhat of an informed decision on what is disagreed upon, and not following what contradicts Quran or what you know of morality, is the path I am on.

 

I hope one day I study hadiths in depth enough that I don't even need to follow scholars out of practicality of following hadiths, but take my own responsibility.

In the traditions of the Ahlul Bayt a.s. Abu Bakr and Umar are responsible for all the trials and tribulations which would follow their regimes as a logical result and consequence of neglecting the Will of Allah. 

The Umayyads which you despise so much would never come into power if Abu Bakr obeyed the Will of Allah. 

Second of all it's kinda strange that you accept the reign of Abu bakr as the Will of Allah and the reign of the Umayyads not. 

You should rather accept the election of Imam Ali a.s. by Allah then the both above which were human affair and not legitimized by revelations of Allah through the Prophet s.a.w.

Usurpation was bound to happen to some extent. The only thing was for how long would it last. Someone was going to say, I don't want to follow Ali, as Satan will surely pick someone to oppose and inspire opposition.

 

The only thing was would there be enough people who stay steadfast to belief and support God and the Messenger and his successors. That was the only real question. 

 

Some people not planning to usurp the station of Ali was out of the question, Satan and his forces would find someone for sure. The only thing was would enough people stay steadfast to belief. 

 

Most people who believed were people who opposed the Messenger in the beginning and fought the believers. The believers that were there from the start were now a minority. 

 

If there would not be enough of people of the people who came to Islam and faith after, to stay steadfast and come to the aid of God and his Wali, then someone even if not Abu Baker or Umar would take the position of Ali.

 

It's like Pharaoh, if it wasn't Pharaoh ruling, it would be another Pharaoh. 

 

After Uthman, people came to realization, they wanted Ali. This time, they were fed up. Uthman was killed and deserved it. But the next fitna would arise. Would Ali come out and say it, that Uthman deserved to die or not, or would he punish the people who killed him despite them doing something noble or playing a delicate balancing act.

 

If they didn't kill him, they would never overthrew him.  That was the way to overthrow a corrupt ruler then.

 

Then a great fitna rose. With Mauwiya and Aisha. And Sunnis in general love these two as well.

 

Until Satanic hand picked forces that oppose God's chosen friend we are free from and curse from the bottom of our hearts, the world will continue to follow such cursed people.

 

The first 6 months, Ali and Fatima didn't do Baya, but when they saw the people didn't come to their aide and support,  and after Fatima died without ever doing baya to Abu Baker, Ali did baya not as a pledge of allegiance of love, but out of compromise.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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If your best friend requested you to do something but you couldnt do it because your hands were tied.  Then you would still apologize and make sure to win his pleasure even if you could not fulfill his wishes.  

 

 

 

 

Whose hands were tied and why were they tied in your analogy?

 

I wont take your word for it. 

 

Don't worry about my words but worry about the proof for the legitimacy of the rulership of those you believe to be your caliphs. 

Edited by Iskandarovich
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I don't believe in Taqleed except as a practical way to know what hadiths state. I don't believe in this notion of following ijtehad of a scholar, as opposed to simply a way to know what hadiths rule regarding a matter with the best ability to approach the hadiths and literature of rijaal. The thing is from my perspective some of what Shia scholars teach contradicts Quran.

 

Alright.  if you curse the the Rashidoon Caliphs then you are responsible for killing many Shias around the world indirectly.  congrats!  honestly... i am not going to argue about this anymore because you already know it doesnt agree with your FITRAH.  in fact you mentioned in some other posts how you fee "hating and cursing" is bad for your spirituality (or something of that nature).  So why am I even wasting my time withs omeone who doesnt even believe in what he is saying??

Whose hands were tied and why were they tied in your analogy?

 

Don't worry about my words but worry about the proof for the legitimacy of the rulership of those you believe to be your caliphs. 

Read all the hadith in Sunni sources for why Abu Bakr (ra) couldn't give Fatimah (as) posession of Fadak.  That is why.   

Whose hands were tied and why were they tied in your analogy?

 

Don't worry about my words but worry about the proof for the legitimacy of the rulership of those you believe to be your caliphs. 

?? i man you just claimed something.  how about you back it up with textual evidence.  ???

Edited by eThErEaL
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Alright.  if you curse the the Rashidoon Caliphs then you are responsible for killing many Shias around the world indirectly.  congrats!

The people who will kill for cursing Rashidoon caliphs will kill us for simply loving Ali as an exalted chosen person. Their real motive stems out of the love of Imams we have, not anything else.

 

All this not cursing Abu Baker and Umar does is show weakness. 

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Struggling For Light:

 

 honestly... i am not going to argue about this anymore because you already know it doesnt agree with your FITRAH.  in fact you mentioned in some other posts how you feel "hating and cursing" is bad for your spirituality (or something of that nature).  So why am I even wasting my time with  someone who doesnt even believe in what he is saying??


The people who will kill for cursing Rashidoon caliphs will kill us for simply loving Ali as an exalted chosen person. Their real motive stems out of the love of Imams we have, not anything else.

 

All this not cursing Abu Baker and Umar does is show weakness. 

yes.  of course it is love. but your love implies hate.  and that hate is what is causing half of the problems in the world

Edited by eThErEaL
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They care less about the hate. They hate us for the love

Alright.  I agree upon further thought.

 

Because they are even killing Sufis and cHristains and others.  I dont think it is because of the cursing per se that is causing Shias to be killed.

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Read all the hadith in Sunni sources for why Abu Bakr (ra) couldn't give Fatimah (as) posession of Fadak.  That is why.   

 

The reason he wouldn't give it back was out of fear for empowerement of the Ahlul Bayt a.s. so that he would loose his self-proclaimed title. Power & greed in short.

First they had to rip off their a.s. economical power. The rest would come later and culminated in Karbalah.

 

?? i man you just claimed something.  how about you back it up with textual evidence.  ???

 

I'm not talking about Shiachat. I'm talking about the Day. Do you think the election by humans at Saqifah is sufficient s a proof that Abu Bakr had to become the caliph?

Edited by Iskandarovich
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The reason he wouldn't give it back was out of fear for empowerement of the Ahlul Bayt a.s. so that he would loose his self-proclaimed title. Power & greed in short.?

That is just what you have been brainwashed with (same old story which I heard already)but that is not what Abu Bakr himself says in the Hadith literature.

First they had to rip off their a.s. economical power. The rest would come later and culminated in Karbalah.?

Riiigggght....

I'm not talking about Shiachat. I'm talking about the Day. Do you think the election by humans at Saqifah is sufficient s a proof that Abu Bakr had to become the caliph?

Yes because the qualification for and definition of "Imam" varies in Shiasm and Sunnism.

Edited by eThErEaL
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The reason he wouldn't give it back was out of fear for empowerement of the Ahlul Bayt a.s. so that he would loose his self-proclaimed title. Power & greed in short.

First they had to rip off their a.s. economical power. The rest would come later and culminated in Karbalah.

 

(salam)

 

Umar gave a huge land (the land of Yanbu) to Ali. 

 

Umar placed Ali and Ibn Abbas in charge of many properties and then after them only the descendants of Ali remained its administrators. 

 

Umar would distribute wealth first among the among the Ahlulbayt - then other people - then last people would be his own family. 

 

What an oppression!

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(salam)

Umar gave a huge land (the land of Yanbu) to Ali.

Umar placed Ali and Ibn Abbas in charge of many properties and then after them only the descendants of Ali remained its administrators.

Umar would distribute wealth first among the among the Ahlulbayt - then other people - then last people would be his own family.

What an oppression!

So how does this justify Sakeefa and various other matters???

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That is just what you have been brainwashed with (same old story which I heard already)but that is not what Abu Bakr himself says in the Hadith literature.

 

Yes, the hadith that he heard the Messenger of Allah s.a.w. saying that Prophets a.s. do not leave inheritance. Please, don't make me laugh.

 

Yes because the qualification for and definition of "Imam" varies in Shiasm and Sunnism.

 

Was there ever an Imam or a caliph elected by humans and not by Allah and can you proof this with the Holy Quran?

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