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In the Name of God بسم الله
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hasanhh

Christian America Now ~70%

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(salam)

 

The Pew Research Center in a survey of 35,000+ adults has noted a marked change in America's religious demographics.

 

The biggest decline is in adherents to Catholicism, down 13%.

 

Quick reads are:

 

CNN, 12May15, "Millennials leaving church in droves, study finds", by Daniel Burke

 

(note: title does not accurately reflect the study's findings)

 

Los Angeles Times, 12May15, "US has become notably less Christian, major study finds"

--since the US Census does not ask religious affiliation questions, this Pew study is the most accurate gauge of current affairs, the error is about 0.6%

 

--this article says increases in Hinduism and in the number of Muslims is from immigration

 

 

also, http://www.pewresearch.org

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Hello,

 

I wonder what the percentage would be if a serious definition of 'Chrisitian' was applied. I doubt it would even be 7%.

 

And, I wonder what the percentage would be if the definition of "Islam" was applied in Muslim countries.

 

For example, take a look at this Corruption Perceptions Map.  It shows Islamic nations from Morocco to Indonesia to be very corrupt.  And, I doubt many would argue with this. 

 

I wonder "what the percentage would be" in these countries if you measured not those that go to prayer 5 times a day, but measured those that live a moral "serious definition of Islam" life?  Do you think it would top 7 percent?

 

All the Best,

David

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I wonder what the percentage would be if a serious definition of 'Chrisitian' was applied. I doubt it would even be 7%.

I would hope it was higher than that, but numbers could always be skewed by those who think they are Christians because they know how to spell Christian, some can even spell Catholic.

 

 

More than half of the Shia converts I've met were raised Catholic.

The rest were Anglican? 

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The rest were Anglican?

Various. All that I've talked with who weren't raised Catholic were either raised protestant or no religion. I've not met anyone who converted from Judaism or from non-Abrahamic religions. I'm sure they exist, I just haven't talked beliefs with them.

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(salam)

 

Haydar: the church l was raised in was (and l do mean 'was' until circa 1980) was a "First Commandment" Church. I always called it this for the absence of an existing term.

 

It was really no different than Islam except there was no Quran and no hadith.

 

Basically, the God of Noah is not anthropomorphic, you do not make images (image=imaginings), you definitely did not repeat the "Words of the Devil" (Gospels say, Satan says, "son of god"),  Jesus, like those before him are examples in "the problems they faced", the word "Father" means "Creator" -example: Father of the H-Bomb, Father of the Assembly Line, etc.- , the Letters of Saul-Paul were those incorporated by the Western Church and caution is/was exercised about what is in them (Paul was a murderer and persecutor, so skepticism existed about the "Road to Damascus" because that is the Road-to-Hell).

 

As for percentage, this was discussed when l was in high school. At the time --as now-- mainline Protestant churches were losing members in the 1960s because of college campus activities by the evilgelicals.(now it is primarily to "megachurches"). One reason "why" their response was not effective  to this, is because large American church organizations (except Catholics) didn't really exist until after WW2 when a movement was on to form all the individual churches into national structures. So there was a pronounced absence of agreement. First Commandment Christians were figured to exist in the single percentage then.

 

After 50 years of aggressive and televised Satanism, the evilgelicals have pretty much the religion to themselves.

 

Wild guessing, 1Cs are less than 1% now.

Edited by hasanhh

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Hi Hasanhh,

Quote from Post 7:
The Letters of Saul-Paul were those incorporated by the Western Church and caution is/was exercised about what is in them (Paul was a murderer and persecutor, so skepticism existed about the "Road to Damascus" because that is the Road-to-Hell).

Response: --- The letters of Paul to the Churches were the first writings that were distributed and were passed from one Church to another, because the Churches had common problems and needed the teaching that his letters contain, --- and they are still used in our Churches today.

--- I have not heard of your, “First Commandment Church,” but the first Commandment was, “You shall have no other gods before Me.”
--- That is good, but do you consider the Gospel Message in the New Testament as the Message for us today?

When you criticize the writings of Paul and make false statements about him you show that you do not know the Scripture, but perhaps just quote what you have heard from others.
Paul was a devout Pharisee. He studied at the feet of Gamalial, who was the renowned Scholar in Israel, at the time.

Pharisees had no authority to kill anyone, and Paul perhaps had ambitions of becoming a priest, and no doubt a high priest, --- so he would not jeopardize his ambition by breaking the law in killing someone. He was rounding up Christians, beating them and putting them in prison to get them off the street, --- but the only way they would be put to death was by order of the Roman Government, --- Notice how Paul condemns his actions in Acts 22:
17 “Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance
18 and saw Him (Jesus) saying to me, ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.’
19 So I said, ‘Lord, they know that in every synagogue I imprisoned and beat those who believe on You.
20 And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.’

Paul was full of hatred towards the Christians, but he did not kill anyone.
If you doubt the Damascus road experience and the conversion of Paul, --- then you perhaps doubt the ministry of Jesus as well, do you not?
 

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20 And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.’

Paul was full of hatred towards the Christians, but he did not kill anyone.

Maybe not personally, but neither did Charles Manson.

Edited by notme

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Maybe not personally, but neither did Charles Manson.

Manson is the best you could come up with?  Not quite the same. No conversion with Manson, no regrets.

 

Matter of fact I met his half brother once. How I ended up in a commune in the Arkansas Ozark mountains built by hippies in the 70's back in 2000 is a long story, but the word I got was Manson still has his name on the deed to that commune. He has said when he gets out that is where he is going to live. The locals told me he won't make it up the mountain and will be buried wherever they ambush him along the way...true story. I can believe it because out of the 300+ people that were there for the snowball festival, my wife and I were the only ones that didn't have concealed handguns.

 

Yeah, killing Christians in those days was a sport, and it was Paul's job to round up the next group of meat bags for the lions, etc.

He didn't dare kill them. Those that travelled with him weren't the best of character either.

Hold that against his past life if you like, but how is it you guys pick and choose your converts? If someone converts and the scholars like him he's okay, but if the scholars do their thing, (to history), you don't believe it's real. Very narrow. 

 

Scholars = Those who learn with an agenda. It's not privy to Muslims, Christians have done it for centuries.

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Hi Notme,

Quote from Post 9:
20 And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.’
Paul was full of hatred towards the Christians, but he did not kill anyone.

Response: --- You see how Saul as a Pharisee was a religious leader, but full of hatred.
--- Do you know of any religious leaders like that?

He had some authority and he was using it against God’s people.
--- How long do you think God allows a person like that to keep doing the same thing without being cut down?

So, on the road to Damascus, he was blinded, and they had to lead him by the hand into Damascus.

The Scripture says this in Acts 9:
10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.” --- And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.
12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”
13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.
19 So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus.

This was the experience of Paul’s conversion.

He was persecuting Christians, then Jesus met him and brought him down low. --- He was religious but going in the wrong direction. In his blindness he was ‘fasting and praying.’ --- Paul saw a vision of Ananias coming to pray for him, and he repented to the Lord and believed.

Jesus said, “He is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
--- So Paul was converted and was ‘filled with the Holy Spirit.’
“The persecuter, became the persecuted.”
From then on Paul was an Apostle, which means, “One sent forth.”

And Jesus said in Acts 22:
17 ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me. --- Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles.”

So Paul was “Sent forth” as an Evangelist and Church planter to the Gentiles. --- And he wrote letters of instruction to the Churches which we still use in our Churches today.

See what conversion can do for a person?

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Conversion can indeed change a person. I'm not saying he didn't repent. I'm saying that overseeing murder is no better than murdering.

--- Do you know of any religious leaders like that?

Yes, they still exist, and hatred is not limited to certain religions. A good person is improved by his religion; an evil person twists his Religion to justify his chosen evil.

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Hi Notme,

Quote: Conversion can indeed change a person. I'm not saying he didn't repent. I'm saying that overseeing murder is no better than murdering.

Response: --- Yes, Saul (his Hebrew name) was certainly an accessory to murder, --- though he wasn’t a ‘murderer’ as was suggested in a previous post
In the same way, the Pharisees were accessories to Jesus being condemned to be crucified, though the Jews didn’t kill Him. --- After they saw that He was dead on the cross, they began boasted about it, --- but Jesus had ‘given up His spirit.’ --- So they hadn’t literally killed Him


After Paul (who took his Roman name) was converted, his former sins were forgiven in his ‘submission to God.’ Then he was ‘filled with the Holy Spirit,’ and became God’s servant, and ‘vessel,’ to take the Gospel message to the Gentiles, and to suffer persecution from other Pharisaic Jews,

His changed life is a testimony to the fact that anyone can be saved.
 

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Hi Notme,

This is what Paul said about himself:

“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” (Galatians 2:20).


Paul had a dramatic experience that led to his conversion because he was knocked off his horse and blinded and had to be led by the hand. --- All of his lofty ambitions were shattered, --- but in his prejudiced mind he thought he was doing this in following and protecting his ‘religion’.

He was ‘religious,’ --- and believed in God, as is revealed in Acts 9:
3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven.
4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

Notice that Saul called Jesus “Lord” twice, --- and followed His instructions

Most people don’t have such a traumatic conversion experience because they haven’t been knocked off their high horse and had all of their earthly ambitions destroyed, --- and come to realize that they must surrender their way unto God, so that He can guide them His way.


 

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I wonder what the percentage would be if a serious definition of 'Chrisitian' was applied. I doubt it would even be 7%.

 

Hello Haydar Husayn,

 

Good question. I hope it would be more than 7%!

 

God knows.

 

One thing that is sad is that many churches do not teach that a follower of Jesus Christ needs to obey Jesus Christ's commands. This obviously is common sense: that a follower should obey the leader. However, sadly many people who call themselves Christians deliberately or ignorantly disobey Jesus Christ's commands, especially his commands to love enemies (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-37).

 

Jesus said, If you love me, keep my commands." - John 14:15 (NIV)

 

Keeping his commands is proof of a person loving Jesus.  I don't know how many Christians truly love Jesus, but it is my responsibility to make sure I keep his commands, thus showing i love him!!!

 

Jesus also said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21 (NIV)

 

It is very important to do the will of the Father in Heaven, not just call Jesus "Lord" (Master) because one can say Master and yet disobey God. It is so important to obey God, doing His will.

 

Peace and God bless you

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