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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Did Rasulallah Say Ya Ali Madad?

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The philosophy of Islam, as outlined in the Quran and the authentic hadith of our imams a.s is that Allah swt recognises how lowly humanity can be, how we can not even gain paradise save by his mercy. However, Allah swt instructs us again and again, despite how low position at times, despite our sins, our deviances, never to feel that connection - that direct connection, with Allah swt to be cut of. 


Quran: "And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided."


This is an absolutely beautiful verse. Allah swt in this verse is reminded us how close he is to us. Who is the low servant and who is the merciful Lord? Look at the mercy of our creator, how inviting he is. Rather than telling us he is too lofty and can not be reached, he casts aside such and ideology and allows us to know that we are the servants of Allah swt, and when someone asks about him, the first response to be given is that 'Allah swt is near'.  Secondly, Allah swt is not telling us how low and abased we are. Rather, when we beg him, call on him, he promises us he responds to the supplicant when he calls upon him.


Infact, throughout the Quran there is a consistent theme of relying on Allah swt, on building a relationship with him, on calling out to him in times of need. 


In Another beautiful verse, Allah swt who has knowledge of all things, knows that man is sinful. Yet, he does not allow even man to use this own sins as an excuse to feel detached from him:


Quran: Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."



If one were to analyse Kitab Al Kafi, the book of prayers, and go through every hadith there, with almost no exceptions, you will find our Imams a.s teach man to form a relationship with their Lord. The imams a.s do not ask anyone to supplicate and ask for their needs from them, rather, they teach man that however sinful we are, to understand we are still close to Allah swt, to use Dua to build a relationship with our creator.


“Abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has
said, ‘It is in the book of Amir al-Mu’minin, Ali ibn abu Talib,
recipient of divine supreme covenant, “praise comes before
asking for favors. Whenever you like to pray and plead before
Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Holy, for help, speak of His
glory.” The narrator has said that I asked the Imam, ‘How
should we speak of His glory?’ The Imam said, ‘Say, O You
Who are closer to me than my jugular veins, O the One Who
does without fail as He wishes, O the One Who stands between a
man and his heart, O the One Who is on a high position and the
One like Whom is no creature.’”
Muwathaq Kal Saheeh - Alama Majlisi
Our Imams a.s instructed us when wanting to seek needs and performing a dua, to praise Allah swt first - not for his sake, he is not in need of praise, but for our sake, to understand who we are praying to, who we glorify, and to seek nearness to him. Infact, one beautiful line is: "Say o you who are closer to me than my jugular veins" and "O one who stands between a man and his heart".
Our Imams a.s through this dua are teaching us, as was in the Quran that despite our sinful state, Allah swt is still extremely close to us, closer to us than something as instinsic as our own jugular vein, which if cut results in our death. He is even closer than that, and he stands between a man and his heart - he knows what we yearn for, what we think, how humanity thinks, our innermost secrets.
Infact, to think we are so low so we should be ashamed to plead before Allah swt in a sense, is an act that we must eradicate from our thoughts and minds.
H 3047, CH 1, h 1
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Hammad ibn ‘Isa from Hariz
from Zurara from abu Ja’far, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said
the following:
“Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Holy, has said, ‘Those
who consider themselves above the need to worship Me will
soon go to hell in disgrace.’ (40:60)
“The Imam said, ‘This is a reference to prayer. The best form
of worship is prayer (pleading before Allah for help).’ I (the
narrator) then asked, ‘What is meant by: Ibrahim is la awwahu,
prayerful and forbearing?’ The Imam said, ‘It means pleading
for help before Allah.’”
Hasan Kal Saheeh- Alama Majlisi
Edited by Tawheed313

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Instead of opening a new thread, I thought I would continue in this thread.



Some questions to those who oppose calling out to Imams:


1. Why on the day of judgement,  when the kingdom belongs wholly to Allah and no soul will control over another soul, people will seek the intercession of Mohammad per authentic hadiths. If it's permissible on the day of judgement, why isn't permissible in this world?

2. Why where people told to go seek forgiveness by going to the Messenger to ask forgiveness for them during his lifetime, why not simply emphasize on asking God directly?

3. How are we suppose to ask the family of the reminder for when we are lost and don't know how to act and are in need in knowledge in this day and age? Was the verse only meant for people living during lifetime of Imams? Does it make sense that we can't obey that command?


Some questions to those who advocate calling out to Imams:


1. What does it mean not take Prophets and Angels as Arbab (Rabs)?

2. What is the tawfeed that Ahlulbayt [as] condemned.

3. Why did Quran emphasize on calling upon Allah and putting one's trust in him and turning to him frequently (interested in your philosophy regarding this).

4. What does it really mean that God is the sole intercessor when mushrikeen believed that God is the controller of the affairs. What is God emphasizing on then?

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1. What does it mean not take Prophets and Angels as Arbab (Rabs)?


The term lord (rabb) is a bit contentious because it is used in both exclusive and generalized meanings in the Qur'an. For example, in Surah 12:23, Yusuf supposedly, according to many commentators, referring to his Egyptian slave master as his "rabb" and then in 12:50, Yusuf uses the term "rabb" in reference to the king of Egypt when telling the messenger sent to him to "return to his lord" and in that same verse refers to his "rabb" as Allah. And of course "rabb" is used in an exclusive sense in reference to God in verses such as 3:64 & 6:165 where it is made explicit that one should not seek any other "rabb" besides God. There are also some hadith where Ali is referred to as "lord" or "rabb" in his own right with regards to wilayah/vicegerency, but I do not know the authenticity of such narrations with regard to their chains.


So when we look at 3:80, which is the verse you are referencing where it is stated a prophet would never call a person to take the prophets and angels as your "lords (arbaban)" in this wider context, we can come to at least two conclusions:


A. Rabb is permissible to use in reference to beings other than God as long as their "rabbness" is acknowledged as a dependent one where they are but extensions of the one rabb in an esoteric sense. In this case, rabb can refer to both supreme authority of godhood or vicegerency or wilayah depending on the context. 3:80 should be read in context of other verses which use the word with the underlying implication that in this verse it is referring specifically to one taking the prophets and angels as lords BESIDES Allah/God rather than lords in a more general or secular sense.


B. Rabb is only permissible in reference to God and 3:80 is condemning not just the reverence paid to the prophets and angels as supposedly being independent lords besides God but also the use of an exclusive epithet, in this case "rabb", for these beings. But to refer to the Prophet or Imams by other such terms which may be translated as lord or master in the English language such wali, sultan, shah, amir, sayid, and so forth, there is no such indication of that in the Qur'an or the hadith. Yusuf's use of "rabb" in reference to his slave master or the king of egypt in Surah 12 in this case would have to be interpreted as Yusuf merely following Egyptian social convention while inwardly only regarded


I think the issue here you've raised is a semantic issue more than one of principles, because regardless of the right answer, I think this is issue is besides the point of addressing the Imams directly, but what titles are proper to refer to them by either when talking to them directly or speaking of them. The answer doesn't have any bearing on the question of speaking to the Imams because one might accept either and still see speaking or petitioning to the Imams directly as shirk.



2. What is the tawfeed that Ahlulbayt [as] condemned.


From what I can tell, the Ahlul Bayt most likely condemned a doctrine known as "tafweed" or delegation. The question is if this is so, what was their understanding of tafweed when they uttered these supposed condemnations of it. We cannot assume that what so and so scholar in the year such and such said was tafweed, either in support or condemnation of it, was the definition Ahlul Bayt used.


Tafweed is normally translated as "delegation", but I'm not sure such a translation is right because it often leads to otherwise authentic hadith or even verses of the Qur'an itself where God is shown clearly to have made use of his servants as instruments of his divine will or is shown to have given specific entities particular responsibilities of a worldly or cosmic importance. The angels of death is of course a good example, and of course God has used prophets as a medium through which he can communicate with his creatures. If this is "tafweed" then we have a serious contradiction.


Again, I think it's very much a semantic issue, not so much one of principles, because we all agree God gives vicegerency over aspects of creation to various servants and endows them with great power over the natural order (Jesus bringing the dead back to life, angels administering punishment and giving rewards and other things) and I think part of the reason why some scholars have differentiated between a shirk form of tafweed and a tawhid form of tafweed or have developed newer scholarly terms such as Wilayat al-Takwini is in order to make sense of various contradicting narrations of seemingly equal authenticity or to make sense of authentic narrations that appear on the superficial level to contradict what is clearly shown in the Qur'an.


I feel like what was referred to as tafweed or condemned as tafweed was a doctrine that suggested that after God created the universe, he took a rest and "delegated" the responsibility of managing to creation to the Ahlul Bayt. This clearly borders on shirk as it suggests that God has no involvement in our affairs and that things are merely the arbitrary will of the Ahlul Bayt. A halal form of tafweed or what is normally referred to as Wilayat al-Takwini these days refers instead to the doctrine that God has given Ahlul Bayt complete vicegerency over all other aspects of creation and that their will and God's will are basically one, with God using them as the medium or conduit for putting his will into action, being an infinite, formless and incomprehensible entity in his essence. They are God's representatives and if they do anything, it is with God's permission and God is himself administering the risq (sustenance).



3. Why did Quran emphasize on calling upon Allah and putting one's trust in him and turning to him frequently (interested in your philosophy regarding this).

4. What does it really mean that God is the sole intercessor when mushrikeen believed that God is the controller of the affairs. What is God emphasizing on then?



I think the problem is that many people's understanding of polytheism is not very good. They pride themselves on being monotheists but don't have a clue what differentiates, philosophically speaking, a monotheist from a polytheist. Their understandings of polytheism as a system of thought is very generalized and they often only understand polytheism in terms of external expressions. The reason these types of people I think fixate on our petitioning the Imams for aid is because they really don't know what makes a monotheist monotheistic, they can't argue from the the internal dimensions of Islamic thought so they focus only on shaming those of us with enough sense to understand that monotheism is a system of philosophical thought apart from questions of ritual piety. Case in point, a person can believe that there is one god and only one god, but not engage any form of religious ritual at all, their monotheism merely being their philosophical disposition though not a reflection of any special religious affiliation. Again, I think the issue is that there are a lot of people here who don't know what makes monotheism different from polytheism on the philosophical plane and so can only resort to drawing comparisons between polytheists and certain monotheists on the superficial level.


My philosophy here, due in part to my Sufi leanings I must admit, is that the saints (awliya) and prophets (anbiyaa) have reached a particular state of annihilation and/or subsistence with God that they become an extension of God's will. To call upon Ahlul Bayt is the same as calling upon God, so the verses in the Qur'an which speak of calling upon Allah alone are referring to an action in essence, not necessarily in outward form. When the Qur'an forbids calling upon anyone besides Allah, it is not referring to calling upon Ahlul Bayt for help, because Ahlul Bayt are not such persons that you can call upon them "besides" Allah, because they are themselves a manifestation of God in terms of his will, power and grace. If one asks God for something without any mention of Ahlul Bayt, when God grants that blessing, the blessing is distributed by Allah through Ahlul Bayt, If one asks Ahlul Bayt for something with the awareness that they don't act in any way against Allah's wishes, they ask God for permission and the blessing is itself given by God through them. I don't think the verses of the Qur'an in question condemn petitioning prophets, saints or angels in any form, but again, I think there is a grave misunderstanding of polytheism here, not on the part of the Qur'an but the readers.


Ancient polytheistic traditions understood the existence of multiple principle forces driving creation known as gods. These gods were independent to the extent that they had relatively exclusive control over their own domains, or so it was believed, and had the power to counter one another to varying degrees. In a way, polytheistic traditions often understood the heavenly order as some kind of republic or as a confederation various semi-independent kingdoms warring or making peace with one another in a complex mixture of alliances and feuds which could be read as like an allegory for the various contradicting natural forces of the mortal world, with which many of these gods were directly or indirectly associated. Usually, at the top of the pantheon was some kind of supreme deity, who was usually understood to be the father/king of the gods or even all existence, sometimes anthropomorphic or non-anthropomorphic, sometimes personal or impersonal, but it was always distant and somewhat unconcerned or uninvolved with human affairs after its initial act of creation, except perhaps functioning as some kind of ideal being which all other beings may try, typically in vain, to aspire to. If you look at Greece, you see the two major kinds of polytheism. In Homer's works, the gods are portrayed as very human with human desires, human vices, human virtues. They become jealous, they feud, they punish without just reason and mortal man is at their mercy, except when they happen to have an enlightened period of mercy and justice or when one god in such a fit of pity for man intervenes on their behalf (as in the myth of Prometheus). God of course, stands above all the other gods by his purity of essence, but doesn't really intervene very much, assuming he even cares what goes on below him. The form of polytheism in Arabia during the Prophet's time was a mixture of ancient Mesopotamian and Greco-Roman religion of the kind found in the Epic of Gilgamesh and Homer's poems. The other form of polytheism, which can be seen in Plato's Republic, criticizes Homeric portrayals of the gods, even when used as allegory, and even goes so far as to say such stories should not be told except in the company of enlightened men so that people aren't misled by them to think of the gods as immoral and capricious. It also criticizes some of the anthropomorphism in Homer and portrays the gods more as abstract immaterial entities. Plato hated the polytheism in Greece during his time and if he wasn't a monotheist like some Muslim thinkers wanted to believe he was, he certainly treaded close to that line of thinking, but his objective was the restoration of the purity of Greek religion from the vulgarity that had taken it over, which he believed was epitomized in the works of men like Homer. This kind of platonic polytheism, which sees the cosmos less as a battleground of competing self-interests between men and gods and more as unified albeit sometimes contradicting whole is closer to the monotheistic view. The monotheistic view, that is the absolute monotheistic view, sees God as the only true God in the real sense of the term. It is not henotheism, which sees one god as pre-eminent and strongest among a number of gods, but sees God as one in essence, one in authority and one in power over all things. Even if one may propose there are many beings who pose as gods, the absolute monotheistic belief is that only creature rightfully deserves the title and so monotheistic philosophy is centered around defining the term "god" and then explaining who solely deserves such an honorific title and why. In Islam, namely Shi'a Islam, it is generally understood that only the being whom Aristotle, Plato and Socrates knew as that infinite and eternal first cause, that primordial intelligence or spirit which sat at the loftiest part of the Pantheon, who is without material shape or form and is pure and unchanging in its essence, is the only being who deserves to be called God in Islam, and this God makes its absolute authority clear in various ways.


The problem is people associate monotheism with the pure absence of any other objects of religious devotion, when this is not the traditional understanding of monotheism at all. Even in the polytheistic systems, each god had its own angels, daemons, its own saints and prophets, and its own priests and temples. There were also demigods or half gods who occupied a place in between the human and divine worlds. Monotheism is not the elimination of multiplicity in religion, but the union of multiple spiritual elements under the reign and auspices of a single deity. There's a big difference here. Because the former would go so far as to eliminate all the realm between mankind and God to where only God is left or where only man is left, with no bridge between the higher and lower realities. The latter would say that monotheism is the rejection of the other gods, whether real or imaginary, as false along with their respective intermediary figures. Monotheism instead accepts that there is one God with absolute authority and therefore but one legion of intermediary figures in this case, as opposed to many gods and therefore many different groups of intermediaries for as many gods exist for man to entreat. The Qur'an emphasizes a worldview of a more orderly cosmos under one single independent principle upon which all other principles and beings find themselves dependent and unable to escape the mercy or wrath of, not multiple independent principles with their own respective dependents who find refuge in one when they anger another of equal size and strength. It emphasizes that there is one God and the only way to salvation/redemption is through HIS appointed intermediaries and HIS forgiveness. One cannot run to the priests of Apollo and expect protection from Allah. So I think the Qur'an's monotheism needs to be understood in this context. The Qur'an's definition of a God is as the supreme authority over all things, it therefore sees the giving of any other being the title of a god as blasphemy because if all other principles and powers are dependent on God, either to be rewarded by him or punished by him and cannot challenge his authority in way, and if they are not responsible for their own creation, what right do they have to be called gods? But this should not be twisted to mean that there aren't a variety of intercessory beings and spirits: angels, saints, righteous djinn, prophets or even plants or animals or inanimate objects as vehicles of barakah or as proxies through which the ineffable deity manifest himself in such a way that does not violate the purity and perfection of his essence.

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Naadey Ali! Nad-e Ali! (Invoke Ali!) Naad-e Ali! Nade Ali!  

Naad-e Aliyyan  

Mazharal Ajayeb  

Tajidahu Aunun Laka Finnwaeb  

Kullu Hamin wa Gamin Sayanjali  

Bi Wilayatika  

Ya Ali! Ya Ali! Ya Ali!    Call Ali! Call Ali!  

Call aloud to Ali  

Who is the epiphanic source of wonders  

You shall surely find him helping in your troubles  

All grief and anxiety will disappear  

By Your power and Authority!  

O Ali! O Ali! O Ali!

At the battle at the Fort of Khyber, Hazrat Ali had stayed behind, and when the Muslims were losing hopelessly, Prophet Muhammad called for the help of Hazrat Ali in his prayer to Allah. Ya Ali Bilutfika Adrikani! O Ali, come to my help by Thy Favor! Hazrat Ali came riding ; held the door of the fort across the moat, miraculously, with one arm, until all the Muslims had crossed over.


Read out from Bible ,Hazrat Esa(A.S) also asked for help to Ali(A.S) saying it as "AILIYA" .

Listen to Jaan Ali Shah Qazmi's majalis ,you will find more surprises !!!

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