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In the Name of God بسم الله

Hamas & Israel Support Saudi Invasion Of Yemen

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Noah-

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Again, two childish and immature posters vaunting off their rhetoric. And unfounded childish allegations. So not worth responding to someone who claims to be expert at politics while trolling.

 

first you don't respond to any of the actual points made, and say you won't respond. then 18 minutes later you respond .. typical hamas symptom of split personality. but the thing that's worst is your akhlaq .. insulting and venomous language ..

 

we know what kind of people use bad akhlaq when cornered ..

 

unless you address the points made by me and Noah, there is no point in addressing your new fictitious claims .. 

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It's hilarious that a man living in West is rambling about 'Zionist America'. The same 'Zionist America' that worked with Iran in Afghanistan and same 'Zionist America' which gave power to Shias in Iraq. And jointly openned Abu Gharib prison to torture same common enemy. Meanwhile Hezbollah has peace with Israel for 10 years now. All the rhetoric about Israel/Zionist America is for domestic consumption. Also as a strategy to take over Arab world by demonizing Arabs as collaborators and discrediting them on political basis. All we hear is rhetoric against US/Israel but only attacks against Arab Sunnis. Meanwhile Iran if given what it wants will enter strategic agreement with US and become allies. Shia have never combatted the Crusaders/Zionists as you call them. Besides Hezbollah in Lebanon. The people Shia curse (Umar Ibn Khattab, Salah Al Din) were the ones who fought the Crusaders and Zionists.

Nevertheless funny post by peaceseeker. In the end, we know the rhetoric is meaningless and true target is Mecca and Madina. Because twelver Shias oppose Islam and stand up for Persianism. It's not rocket science. Yet you have decency to brand other Arabs as collaborators because they don't engage in war with superpower right away which will easily destroy them.

I have been silent on this but i have to comment.

Look man, i am not a sunni or a shia. I am a non-sectarian Pan-Islamist. I have no interest in indulging in sectarian strife. But here is the thing.

You made allegations that the poster 'peaceseeker 2' is childish. Yet you made remarks that amount from conspiracy theories to outright schizophrenia

I am not saying Iran does not have its sectarian goals but to say that iran wants a persian hegemony is nonsensical. Do you know that iranians are not very religious? You are right that iran uses rhetoric.And yes it is the aggresor in Yemen. But to say that they want Makkah and Madinah and some sort of shia kingdom is just stupid. And here's the newsflash: arabs have been sold out, they are traitors pure and simple. The Saudi and GCC 'Shakes' had, have and will collaborate with the jews. They or atleast their leaders have to be removed and replaced with charismatic, strong Nationalist leaders who can pull the muslims through. We muslims were the Greatest once. We taught the savage european Crusaders manners and how to read. Salahaddin taught the kaffir crusader Richard table manners. Look at us now. Can't you see how far muslims have fallen? Is this bigotry and sectarianism and racism worth it? I don't care of it is an arab/ persian/ turkish empire. All iwant is for muslims to strive for the heights we were meant to have as we had under the early iraqi/persian empires and of course the Jewel of the Crown- the Great Ottoman empire. Is this goal not worth fighting for? Or are you so focused on your arab/sunni supremacy?

For Allah's sake, let us unite- all sects- so we can struggle for that goal.

By the way, the name is spelt Salah-ad-din not Salah-al-din. He along with Hitler are my heroes. However, you forget that both Umr and Salahaddin were fooled by the our arch enemies the jews. You can read my signature or look up Surah al-Maidah. "Verily the greatest in enmity to the Believers(muslims) are the JEWS.....". If you are an honest muslim, you should not overlook this fact.

Wassalam.

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

The moment an Arab says how Iran is pursuing a Persian Empire or has a fire-worshipping faith, I consider myself lucky to be witnessing at first hand a historical relic, and an intellectual fossil: an Arab living in the 21st century, belonging to the era of Nasser and the Shah - or worse, the era of Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas and Yazdgird III. 

If this is what some Palestinians think about the Islamic Republic, then isn't it upsetting that besides weapons and medicine, the Israelis seem to have also placed an embargo on education?

Anyway, if Hamas wishes to sleep with Sisi tonight and Saudi tomorrow night, having slept with Mursi last night and Assad the night before, it will only sink lower by the day, and the paltry that comes from prostitution will only keep it alive enough to sleep around with more donors even more. 

In the end, they are responsible for their own conduct; they will either gain some shame or they won't.

 

(wasalam)

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Iran is sly to wrap pro-Iran strategies vis-a-vis Israel  with Islam and is trying to sell it as saving Palestine/Islam.

Pals are the spineless lot who, contrary to human nature, have been trying to fight occupation with whining and begging for 60 years. They prefer the material world of comfort over adversity in seeking true freedom. Their position as the global welfare recipients seems to be real cozy for them. They will never want independence cause then they'd have to pay for things and not beg. Iran should just leave them at that and should make peace with Israel. Cause if Pals are happy beggars and Israelis happy occupiers who the hell is Iran to come in and say this or that? Its an issue between semite cousins and Iran should back away. Because even if they give Pals the world, they would still want more. Yes, if Pals were true fighters and had fighting nature then it'd be a different story. Palestine would have been free long time ago.....way before the Iranian revolution.

 

In this cat & mouse game where Iran is trying to fool Pals and Pals Iranians, I think Israel is the ultimate winner. Because Israel is the only honest player- honest about its own interests.

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Again, two childish and immature posters vaunting off their rhetoric. And unfounded childish allegations. So not worth responding to someone who claims to be expert at politics while trolling.

 

 

You can ignore this jahil member noah. He is a spoiled kid who spits out nothing but anger & hate. I have seen his hostility towards sunni members in many threads & the administration of this forum seems to be so busy these days that they forgot to deal with such members.

Edited by gespato
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first you don't respond to any of the actual points made, and say you won't respond. then 18 minutes later you respond .. typical hamas symptom of split personality. but the thing that's worst is your akhlaq .. insulting and venomous language ..

 

we know what kind of people use bad akhlaq when cornered ..

 

unless you address the points made by me and Noah, there is no point in addressing your new fictitious claims ..

You have low quality of standards for me to have debate with you. Firstly, childish narratives such as one being that Qatar has unwavering support to Israel. Again, keep this as factual as possible, do less of the Presstv rhetoric. Second, you made a claim that israel created Hamas and ask me for evidence to prove otherwise. Even though that onus is in you. Hamas is a movement that create itself. You're rhetoric is just fending off steam, whenever any entity doesn't share the Persian agenda the belittling begins. Even though you're not in position to belittle the way you are. I just don't wnt to offend Shia's here. However, reality is Iranian and Israeli companies deal together and Iran bought weapons from Israel during Iran-Iraq war. Iraqi Shia's were put in power by the US and had joint torture/mass rape camp. Your rhetoric is pointless. I can go much further if I had time and energy to waste on you. But last thing I wan is immature person playing disparaging game which is common tactic used. As evident though, all the rhetoric is for domestic consumption and to attempt proving superiority of Shia Islam to Sunni Islam. In order to discredit and weaken Arabs to take advantage of to support Iranian interests. Its a dirty game which Muslims don't play. So leave God on a side.

Iran is sly to wrap pro-Iran strategies vis-a-vis Israel  with Islam and is trying to sell it as saving Palestine/Islam.

Pals are the spineless lot who, contrary to human nature, have been trying to fight occupation with whining and begging for 60 years. They prefer the material world of comfort over adversity in seeking true freedom. Their position as the global welfare recipients seems to be real cozy for them. They will never want independence cause then they'd have to pay for things and not beg. Iran should just leave them at that and should make peace with Israel. Cause if Pals are happy beggars and Israelis happy occupiers who the hell is Iran to come in and say this or that? Its an issue between semite cousins and Iran should back away. Because even if they give Pals the world, they would still want more. Yes, if Pals were true fighters and had fighting nature then it'd be a different story. Palestine would have been free long time ago.....way before the Iranian revolution.

Looks who's talking, lol. What fighting nature? The one we saw in Mosul? Or the one where Iran uses Arab Shia's as cannon fodder for its cause? Or do you need to be Shia to have fighting cause? Like the ones that rejected Hussains call for support? Or the ones who lost war with 300,000 against 30,000 Sahaba including Al Hassan and Al Hussain?

If you have fighting spirit go pillage Mecca like we you were threatening before Saudi operation in Yemen. Then you will meet fighting spirit, lol. You need to be realistic and leave your fantasies. Shia never fought in a single major Islamic war. And they never will. They will use propaganda of death to Zionists while killing Arabs on daily basis and trying to conquer more Arab land.

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You can ignore this jahil member noah. He is a spoiled kid who spits out nothing but anger & hate. I have seen his hostility towards sunni members in many threads & the administration of this forum seems to be so busy these days that they forgot to deal with such members.

I hate seeing this as Shia-Sunni thing, I came in to correct misinformation. Purely on political grounds. But members here are dragging religion into it. And propagating false narratives against Sunnis. For them its either my way or highway. If you don't support their regional agenda then they begin to disparage and belittle you. Through childish and immature and unfounded means. But also don't realize that their arguments can only be use against them. One needs to accept thwt we don't share same aspirations and thwt shouldn't get in way of this topic.

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Looks who's talking, lol. What fighting nature? The one we saw in Mosul? Or the one where Iran uses Arab Shia's as cannon fodder for its cause? Or do you need to be Shia to have fighting cause? Like the ones that rejected Hussains call for support? Or the ones who lost war with 300,000 against 30,000 Sahaba including Al Hassan and Al Hussain?

If you have fighting spirit go pillage Mecca like we you were threatening before Saudi operation in Yemen. Then you will meet fighting spirit, lol. You need to be realistic and leave your fantasies. Shia never fought in a single major Islamic war. And they never will. They will use propaganda of death to Zionists while killing Arabs on daily basis and trying to conquer more Arab land.

 

Bottomline is that Iran  is free. Palestine is not. Other countries were occupied and its people fought. Pals did not because Pals are spineless. Everything else is irrelevant to the discussion. Why are you talking about 1400 years ago when you are occupied today? 

 

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You have low quality of standards for me to have debate with you. Firstly, childish narratives such as one being that Qatar has unwavering support to Israel. Again, keep this as factual as possible, do less of the Presstv rhetoric. Second, you made a claim that israel created Hamas and ask me for evidence to prove otherwise. Even though that onus is in you. Hamas is a movement that create itself. You're rhetoric is just fending off steam, whenever any entity doesn't share the Persian agenda the belittling begins. Even though you're not in position to belittle the way you are. I just don't wnt to offend Shia's here. However, reality is Iranian and Israeli companies deal together and Iran bought weapons from Israel during Iran-Iraq war. Iraqi Shia's were put in power by the US and had joint torture/mass rape camp. Your rhetoric is pointless. I can go much further if I had time and energy to waste on you. But last thing I wan is immature person playing disparaging game which is common tactic used. As evident though, all the rhetoric is for domestic consumption and to attempt proving superiority of Shia Islam to Sunni Islam. In order to discredit and weaken Arabs to take advantage of to support Iranian interests. Its a dirty game which Muslims don't play. So leave God on a side.

 

somebody who starts a conversation this way should be either ignored or insulted back. i'll chose the first option in sha Allah ..

 

and you can "leave God on a side" .. i wont ( I'll have God on all sides, in the center and all around all the time in sha Allah )

 

when and if your akhlaq improves .. and you actually address my points systematically with proofs, i may take you seriously again.

 

Allahu Akbar

“National identity is the last bastion of the dispossessed. But the meaning of identity is now based on hatred, on hatred for those who are not the same.” 

― Umberto Eco, The Prague Cemetery

 

i totally agree in the case of national identity being race related. like the nazis with the whole aryan race thing, or the white supremacy story, and now the arab army coming up .. imagine if the europeans make an aryan army to protect their interests, and attack fellow aryans who are friends with the arabs .. like the arab houthis are being attacked for being friends with persians .. it's sick

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Bottomline is that Iran  is free. Palestine is not. Other countries were occupied and its people fought. Pals did not because Pals are spineless. Everything else is irrelevant to the discussion. Why are you talking about 1400 years ago when you are occupied today?

Iran is free from what? Palestinians are free, Allah put them in Aaard Al Ribaat until the day Prophet Isa descends to Damascus and combats Dajjal in Jerusalem. That's greatest privilege to have. Iran has many people who are secular and atheist. Since you live in fantasy you don't understand reality. I don't blame, you sound brainwashed as a person. Iran will have relations with West once they come to certain terms. This is what the Iranian people want. You bring up Palestinians, you need another thousand years to reach anywhere near bravery of a child in Gaza let alone Mujahid. They stood up to israel in 5 wars since 2006. Meanwhile all the rhetoric coming from you has not translated into any action. Its just for domestic consumption. What come first for Iran is its interests. Not Israel.

I brought up points which you couldn't respond to. Just to show you thwt playing disparaging/rhetoric game will not work out for you. I can do many times worse. So it's better you end your hostility to me, as I only came here to clarify information.

There's no need for hostility from members here towards Hamas. Hamas is a Sunni Palestinian movement that is focuse on Israel. Not on Saudi arabia or Syria or other Arabs. We have different ideology and don't share your aspirations. So don't get upset over our positions. You are not the only inhabitants on this earth.

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I hate seeing this as Shia-Sunni thing, I came in to correct misinformation. Purely on political grounds. But members here are dragging religion into it. And propagating false narratives against Sunnis. For them its either my way or highway. If you don't support their regional agenda then they begin to disparage and belittle you. Through childish and immature and unfounded means. But also don't realize that their arguments can only be use against them. One needs to accept thwt we don't share same aspirations and thwt shouldn't get in way of this topic.

 

 

They accuse us of being nasibi/hypocrites/takfiris. See how they stoop to the level of jahils & brother you r seeing the true face of shia community.

 

No use debating with them akhi.

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to the post #50

 

 I am not going to extend this debate , I just quote a common statement some of Iranians use and you can compare it with your post :

 

"Why do we support and fund others when we ourselves have people who need that money ?"

 

Insha'Allah one day we together will liberate Qods . just please don't be so sectarian . 

Edited by kamyar
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Salam to all, 

 

Let me just respond to some of the points made in this thread. 

 

First, if Imam Husain(a.s) and his movement that began at Karbala taught us anything, it is that the ends never justify the means. 

Imam Zain Al Abideen(a.s) said in his famous hadith that bad aklaq in a calamity is worse than the calamity itself. 

 

I see that many brothers are trying to condemn the support of some Palestinian groups for the Saudi / GCC Invasion of Yemen, but let's not get emotional here and lose our reason. Amoung the Palestianian groups, there are many, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, etc. Within these groups, there is a range of opinions regarding this Invasion. Don't treat our brothers in Palestine as if they are one amorphous blob with no independent will. Just as you don't like it when our Sunni brothers paint all Shia with the same brush. Within the Palestinian community where I live, there is a wide range of opinions, and most do not support the stance of Hamas and are with the people of Yemen who are being Invaded. I think Hamas made a big mistake in taking this position and it will probably backfire on them. It was an irrational stance, and we hope they will change and come back to Haqq. 

 

On the other side, our Sunni brothers must understand that we are no threat to them. All this talk about Iranians and the Persian Empire and that the Iranians are behind all these groups pulling the strings, etc, etc. is nonsense that is manufactured by journalists and others who have a vested interest in the status quo. Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah made some very good points in his recent speech which may be of interest to our Sunni brothers. His main point was that The Houtis are not being controlled by Iran, and noone outside of Yemen is telling them what to do. It is not actually possible for Iran, with the limited resources they have, the distances that seperate them from Yemen, and the fact that Yemen is not very important to them strategically, to control much that is happening there. If you go to Yemen, I doubt you will see one Iranian anywhere, so how are they controlling it ? The simple fact which the Al Saud family cannot face is the fact that their legacy of oppression and interference in Yemen, their installing of puppets like Hadi, etc, has lead to the Yemeni people rising up against them and wanting to rid their country of their influence. That is the main event that is behind this, and it is obvious. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it is probably a duck and not a parrot. 

 

The Houtis turned to Iran for some assistance, simply because noone else would help them in their desire to get rid of Al Saud. If the Arab League would have not ignored their concerns and would have helped them to reach a political solution, like they were trying to do for years before this, then I'm pretty sure Iran would have pretty much zero influence in Yemen, as has historically been the case. I'm afraid now, with the vicious military campaign of Al Saud against the Yemeni people, they will turn more toward Iran and so the campaign will accomplish exactly the opposite of what the objective was. 

 

What I hope, and most people here hope is that Saud and the GCC will come to their sense, stop murdering the Yemani people, sit down with Houtis and work out a political solution that will restore the rights and freedoms to the Yemeni people and the fighting and killing will end. I'm pretty sure that is what Iran wants also

Edited by Abu Hadi
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peace seeker: I could reply to every single reply and every single statement of these low-class ppl who just entered the forum as a group... possibly Jahangiram's friends from his twitter that he invited them here... but no need to respond to them.

 

If you want to listen to me, don't argue with a bunch of cowards: In the history of mankind they had no brave leaders! They either conquered under the banner of Islam and then gave Islam bad names by raping, looting and massacring, even from the times of their caliphs or they ran away from battles. It was the Shias, Ahlul Bait, Hamza and Ali who fought.. these cowards, they run away now the same way their leaders and caliphs ran away from Bader, Khybar, and many more Islamic battles.

 

The family ruling of Islamic era under Sunni clans and families were no better than Ahle Saud or Ahle Khalifa, they were even worse. And the extremist of the time, including the Khawarij and Nasebi and other branches of their sects were no better than ISIS, Taliban or Alqaida.

 

They bark on Iran, Shia Islam, and Hizb here, while their leaders beg them every month for the last 8 months to restore ties and give them aids. And their sisters and mothers were saved for many years by Shia-Farsi Iran and Shia Hizb, and Shia Alawite Assad.

 

See how he ran away when I challenged him over Saddam vs Assad when he played the 'cards' of "Imaan" and principle and all that nonsense.

 

Calling 'jahil, childish, etc... they just want to provoke ppl... while themselves are bunch of ignorant... who are trying to debate and refute by calling ppl names, or bringing 100s of different topics and throwing from everywhere.. look to every single reply they made.

 

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Noah you're a very sectarian and bipolar individual. Your posts are giving a bad impression. I hope you realize no one takes your blabbering with any seriousness, it's not worth responding to.

If by 'they' you mean Sunnis than your presentation of Islamic history is comical. Again, don't get into discussions related to facts or politics. You're just being emotional.

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^Another personal attack... you and your friends are here to tell ppl how they look like, how they sound like... how x and y they are. You did not have anything to debate or discuss and you don't have it in you...

 

It is you who throw all emotional and propaganda (out of helplessness) on Iran and Hizb and what not. Read your replies to every single user above, they are still up there, then call other ppl emotional.

 

btw: I have nothing against Sunnis or Palestinians as ppl.. all my life I am dealing with Sunnis... But, I can never stop myself to tell the truth be it live with ppl I know, if I discuss religion/politics or be it online.

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Palestinians actually are very brave people - you see these 10 year old children throwing rocks at tanks because that's all they can do. That takes guts.

 

You guys are all falling into Israel's trap with this sectarian arguing.

Edited by ChattingwithShias
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@wahdat- must be great to have those nice US soldiers in Bagram.

 

Oh yes it is and they are the only hope for a good and peaceful Afghanistan given the presence of two 'Islamic' neighbours to the south and the west where their proxies turned Afghanistan into a hell hole.

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^ Thanks

Oh and lets look at a scenario where Americans are ousted from Afghanistan. Saudi through Pakistan would fund takfiri groups whose first victims will be the Shias of Afghanistan....making them once again the sacrificial lambs of Iran-Saudi geopolitical rivalry. Shia men will be killed. Shia women raped. Shia children orphaned. The survivors will try to make a run for it to Iran. IR will close its border and post a sign asking people to apply for proper entry Visas at their closed embassy in Kabul. 

 

So don't you agree that its great to have Americans in Bagram? I think its good for everybody.

Edited by Wahdat
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@Noah,

 

these individuals represent how those that sell their cause to zionist puppets and some cash probably think.

 

they avoid true arguments with insults and arrogance. So they replace logic and rational thinking with blind haughtiness. Those low blows on a personal level just show how weak and lost they are on a spiritual and mental level. Also debating with such people will never get you anywhere, because they are debating for the sake of their ego and not truth. If it was for truth, they would keep normal manners, and not keep insulting, with random baseless statements in the middle .. after ignoring proved arguments from the past.

 

I've even experienced this with shias sometimes. The point is that people who refuse to surrender to the truth out of arrogance are following not the sunnah of the Prophet, but the sunnah of iblis. He refused to prostrate to Adam because he felt superior. At the same time he is using all kind of tricks to try to provoke and get believers off balance. Insulting others makes the insulter feel superior to the victim of insult, yet deep in their hearts they know they are inferior. Just like the people who insulted the prophet for instance.

 

here "Speech in Islam":

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235020289-speech-in-islam/

 

so you see, the prophets and imams never used insults or arrogant comments (such as 'i am so much better than you') .. as iblis whispers for us to do. so when you hear people doing that, then know they are blinded by arrogance, and will not understand anything you say.

 

so, anyway .. it is probably exactly how the leadership of Hamas think as they make alliances with dirty gulf donors, who fill their pockets with cash, in order to sell the palestinian cause and blunt their own sword of resistance. A bunch of anger, insults against those who don't agree with them, then random arguments without base. And those arguments are dramatized and exaggerated to stir even more emotions of hatred and blind following of zionist agendas.

 

If it wasn't so, then Hamas would be straight forward and not deviant. I'm glad that the Rahbar refused to meet the Hamas leader last time he visited Iran. Imam Ali i think said something along the lines of: don't make friends with the enemies friends, otherwise you will become one of them. So let them be friends with their zio-American occupied wahabi puppets, and go against the anti-zionist axis as they have done with Bashar al Asad .. let them do it .. and no need to get upset about it. The only thing that is sad is the poor weak people of palestine who are not responsible for the political mistakes made. Even if there is a single palestinian person who sees the truth of the matter, then this person to me represents the true Palestinian cause.

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Noah I'm an Arab. So my natural tone may sound aggressive but I'm not trying to offend you. Please man up Noah. This is normal style of talk in Arab world. It gets heated sometimes and that's considered very normal. The Arabic language is naturally one that may sound aggressive. And it is the language of Paradise. I'm confused as to what you're trying to get across now. It doesn't matter though, lets end it here. I only have one post left that I'm permitted to make until restrictions are removed.

.......

PS: what peaceseeker stated was troll , low standard, rhetorical nonsense. Which I already responded to but he skipped anyways.

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Oh yes it is and they are the only hope for a good and peaceful Afghanistan given the presence of two 'Islamic' neighbours to the south and the west where their proxies turned Afghanistan into a hell hole.

It seems every race has its traitors.

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The unislamic view that has been spread by some on this thread that we should pay no attention to the sufferings of our brothers in the occupied territories are in clear contradiction to the Quran:

 

 

Sahih International
And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?"
وَمَا لَكُمْ لَا تُقَاتِلُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَالْمُسْتَضْعَفِينَ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ وَالنِّسَاءِ وَالْوِلْدَانِ الَّذِينَ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا أَخْرِجْنَا مِنْ هَٰذِهِ الْقَرْيَةِ الظَّالِمِ أَهْلُهَا وَاجْعَل لَّنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ وَلِيًّا وَاجْعَل لَّنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ نَصِيرًا

 

This verse is talking about the "offensive jihad" where believers fought against the oppressive 1% to free the 99%- not just material oppression, but also spiritual oppression. The verse is condemning some believers by saying why is it that you do not give up your life for the spiritual lives of those non muslims?

 

In order to justify the silence that some people have towards the oppression in the occupied territories some people here say things like "they aren't Shia" or they make baseless accusations accusing them of being nasibi. Even if they are atheist, believers have a responsibility to put their lives on the line to save them from oppression according to the Holy Quran!

 

So what is wrong with some members of Shiachat that they do not give a damn about Palestine! Clearly every one of us has a duty to support the oppressed Jew, Christian, Atheist- whichever nation he may be in. Let alone the Muslim brother of ours whose home of the first Qiblah has been taken over by the Zionist entity!

 

May God guide us all...

Edited by silasun
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