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faris88_

Imperfectness Of God In The Bible

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5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." (Genesis 6:5-7)

 

the above passage shows the imperfection attributed to God Almighty in the bible becase how can he regret and be sorry for his own decisions and what he chose to create and be sorry about it ? how come God (as mentioned in the Bible) failed to see the outcome of his creation before he created them ? did he not knew he was going to regret his own actions ? it proves God in the Bible does not have the knowledge of the unseen otherwise he wouldn`t have made this mistake in the first place.

 

the Quran on the other hand does not attributes a single imperfection to God Almighty as it says in Numerous places that God is All Wise and All Knowing and that he is aware of everything that will happen as he alone has the perfect knowledge of the Unseen.

 

 

And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them except Him. And He knows what is on the land and in the sea. Not a leaf falls but that He knows it. And no grain is there within the darknesses of the earth and no moist or dry [thing] but that it is [written] in a clear record,” (Qur’an, 6:59)

 

“They said, “Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise.” (Qur’an, 2:32)

 

 

[Moses] said, "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord in a record. My Lord neither errs nor forgets." (Quran 20:52)

 

 

these are a few examples out of the many verses in the Holy Quran which makes it clear that God Almighty is above making Mistakes and regreting his own actions.

 

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There are many, many more. In Samuel, g-d is Repents that he made Saul his king. And yes lets not forget the sentence, "The l-rd thy g-d is a jealous g-d."

But i dont think discussion of these ever brings results. Despite the things written in OT and despite how it contradicts with the God in NT, christians still cling onto OT.

My advice for muslims: when you see a verse in OT that puts the image of God falsely, replace the word God with g-d.

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There are many, many more. In Samuel, g-d is Repents that he made Saul his king. And yes lets not forget the sentence, "The l-rd thy g-d is a jealous g-d."

But i dont think discussion of these ever brings results. Despite the things written in OT and despite how it contradicts with the God in NT, christians still cling onto OT.

My advice for muslims: when you see a verse in OT that puts the image of God falsely, replace the word God with g-d.

That is probably good advise. God Almighty is seldom mentioned in the OT yet everyone takes any implication to God as God. 

Let's not forget that God rules the universe. The OT is only the history of the Jews. G-d was appointed by God to lead the Jews. 

 

It's a case of reading the Bible for what it says rather than learning from others what it supposedly says first.

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That is probably good advise. God Almighty is seldom mentioned in the OT yet everyone takes any implication to God as God. 

Let's not forget that God rules the universe. The OT is only the history of the Jews. G-d was appointed by God to lead the Jews. 

 

It's a case of reading the Bible for what it says rather than learning from others what it supposedly says first.

 

 well then why does it makes up for the bigger part of the Bible ??? and i`m not talking about The One true God of the Universe by what i posted above but i`m only referring to the image of God or G-d as portrayed in the Bible (OT).

 

"G-d was only appointed by God to lead the jews" what in the world does that mean ??? are you saying the G-d of OT and the GOD of NT are not the same ? please clarify otherwise people would get confused because of it.

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Hello Faris88_,

 

5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." (Genesis 6:5-7)
 
the above passage shows the imperfection attributed to God Almighty in the bible becase how can he regret and be sorry for his own decisions and what he chose to create and be sorry about it ? how come God (as mentioned in the Bible) failed to see the outcome of his creation before he created them ? did he not knew he was going to regret his own actions ? it proves God in the Bible does not have the knowledge of the unseen otherwise he wouldn`t have made this mistake in the first place.
 

 

 

First of all, remember that Moses did not write the Torah in English. So, it is important to study the Hebrew wording of the text in question.

 

Secondly, many words are figures of speech. I say sorry sometimes when it is not my fault. For example, a little girl recently told me her father's truck had been stolen. II told her, "Oh I'm sorry." though I did not steal her father's truck. Rather, it does not please me that her family is experiencing hardship and that someone disobeyed God and stole.

 

God was and is not pleased that His Creation disobeys Him. It did not take God by surprise that people were disobeying Him. Interestingly, when Jesus Christ talked about the end of the world (as we know it), he mentioned the time of Noah:

 

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,but only the Father.

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 

For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 

and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

 Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. - Matthew 24:35-42 (NIV)

 

God will judge the earth through Jesus Christ's return. Yes it does not please God when people disobey Him, and the term "sorry" shows His displeasure at the choice of people to disobey Him.

 

 


 
the Quran on the other hand does not attributes a single imperfection to God Almighty as it says in Numerous places that God is All Wise and All Knowing and that he is aware of everything that will happen as he alone has the perfect knowledge of the Unseen.
 
 
And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them except Him. And He knows what is on the land and in the sea. Not a leaf falls but that He knows it. And no grain is there within the darknesses of the earth and no moist or dry [thing] but that it is [written] in a clear record,” (Qur’an, 6:59)
 
“They said, “Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise.” (Qur’an, 2:32)
 
 
[Moses] said, "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord in a record. My Lord neither errs nor forgets." (Quran 20:52)
 
 
these are a few examples out of the many verses in the Holy Quran which makes it clear that God Almighty is above making Mistakes and regreting his own actions.

 

 

The Bible has many verses that proclaim God's wisdom, so what the Qur'an says concerning God being wise is not new nor is unique to only the Qur'an.

 

"Then Job replied:

“Indeed, I know that this is true.
    But how can mere mortals prove their innocence before God?
Though they wished to dispute with him,
    they could not answer him one time out of a thousand.
His wisdom is profound, his power is vast.
    Who has resisted him and come out unscathed?" - Job 9:1-4 (NIV)


"To God belong wisdom and power;
    counsel and understanding are his." - Job 12:13

 

"How many are your works, Lord!
    In wisdom you made them all;
    the earth is full of your creatures." - Psalm 104:24

 

By wisdom the Lord laid the earth’s foundations,

by understanding he set the heavens in place; - Proverbs 3:19

 

About Jesus Christ -

"A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
    from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—
    the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
    the Spirit of counsel and of might,
    the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the Lord
 and he will delight in the fear of the Lord." - Isaiah 11:1-3 (NIV)

 

"The Lord is exalted, for he dwells on high;
    he will fill Zion with his justice and righteousness.
 He will be the sure foundation for your times,
    a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge;
    the fear of the Lord is the key to this treasure." -- Isaiah 33:5-6

 

"4 Before a word is on my tongue
    you, Lord, know it completely.

You hem me in behind and before,
    and you lay your hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

Where can I go from your Spirit?
    Where can I flee from your presence?

If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
    if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
    if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
    your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
    and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
    the night will shine like the day,
    for darkness is as light to you.

13 For you created my inmost being;
    you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    your works are wonderful,
    I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
    when I was made in the secret place,
    when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
    all the days ordained for me were written in your book
    before one of them came to be.

17 How precious to me are your thoughts, God!
    How vast is the sum of them! - Psalm 139:4-17 (NIV)

 

Peace and God bless you

 

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First of all, remember that Moses did not write the Torah in English. So, it is important to study the Hebrew wording of the text in question.

 

Secondly, many words are figures of speech. I say sorry sometimes when it is not my fault. For example, a little girl recently told me her father's truck had been stolen. II told her, "Oh I'm sorry." though I did not steal her father's truck. Rather, it does not please me that her family is experiencing hardship and that someone disobeyed God and stole.

 

welcome Christianlady,

 

yes i do believe that God did not revealed the Torah in English and a verse can be open to many interpretations but you example is not proper for interpreting this verse because you were sorry that her father`s truck got stolen and you were sorry to hear this even though you had no part in it. while this verse God or G-d was sorry for his own action i.e. creation of mankind. you can`t really relate your example with this passage because it clearly says that God was sorry that he had created them and not that they had gone astray was the only thing which made him sorry.

 

i`m not saying that such verses are very common in the Bible and surely there verses which speaks of God`s perfection, but the question is why are the verses of imperfection are there in the first place ???

 

and Peace and Mercy of God be upon you as well

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Hi Faris88,

Quote from Post 6:

I`m not saying that such verses are very common in the Bible and surely there verses which speaks of God`s perfection, but the question is why are the verses of imperfection are there in the first place ???

Response: --- Yes, we understand that God created all things perfect, and he could create obedient orders of angels, but at one point He created the order of angels called the Cherubim.--- They were created perfect, but God gave them a free will.

It should have been that ‘perfect angels’ in a ‘perfect environment’ would maintain that ‘perfection,’ --- Which was no doubt the case for some time,

But the one who had the high position of the ‘Lucifer’ or leader, became proud of his position, and having free will he influenced others to follow him.

So the first sin that developed within an angel that had ‘free will’ was ‘pride.’ It says this of the one who was the Lucifer, and had to be removed, in Ezekiel 28:

12 “You were the seal of perfection,

Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.”

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers.”

15 “You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,

Till iniquity was found in you.”

So it was the first sin of pride, and the second sin of self- exaltation, that set mankind on a disobedient path away from God.

It is a long story, but to come back to your Scripture in Genesis 6:

5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

Through the previous years there may have been multitudes of obedient people who had lived and died and gone to heaven, --- but the situation had deteriorated in the earth and “God saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth.”

--- It was God’s earth, that He provided for man to live on, but it had gone to a point of no recovery on its own, --- So God said, I will destroy the wicked from the earth. --- God chose the righteous man, Noah and his family to start over, and that is another long story.

God was sorry, or ‘regretted’ the outcome of giving mankind ‘free will.’

We can’t be sure of the exact sentiment of God when He said He was sorry He made man as He did.

A comparison might be a father who bought a new bicycle for his son, and taught him how to ride it. He would take great pleasure in seeing his son happy, and enjoying the bicycle. --- Other members of the family would be happy too, would they not?

But one day the boy was riding and was hit by a vehicle and was killed.

--- Would the father not ‘regret’ ever buying the bicycle for his son?

Was it the son’s fault? --- Was he riding where he shouldn’t have been?

--- It didn’t matter about the details, --- just that his son was dead.

God is all Wise, but He didn’t make us robots, or program us individually.

--- So we have a free will to believe in God and His word, and find salvation. --- Or we have freedom to waste our life without God, and suffer the consequences.

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Hello Faris88_,

 

welcome Christianlady,

 

Thank you. :)

 

yes i do believe that God did not revealed the Torah in English and a verse can be open to many interpretations but you example is not proper for interpreting this verse because you were sorry that her father`s truck got stolen and you were sorry to hear this even though you had no part in it. while this verse God or G-d was sorry for his own action i.e. creation of mankind. you can`t really relate your example with this passage because it clearly says that God was sorry that he had created them and not that they had gone astray was the only thing which made him sorry.

 

 

 

I understand our point and Placid explained much better than I did, so please read Placid's reply.

 

It's important to read the verses together in context. After all, when Moses wrote the Torah, he did not add chapter and verse numbers; those are just reference points.

 

So, please note why God was grieved:

 

"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." (Genesis 6:5-7)"

 

The wickedness of man is why God was "sorry."

 

The expression "sorry" here has to do with man's wickedness displeasing God so much that He wiped them from the earth, with the exception of Noah and his family who he rescued.

 

Again, please see Placid's response. He explains much better. :)

 

 

i`m not saying that such verses are very common in the Bible and surely there verses which speaks of God`s perfection, but the question is why are the verses of imperfection are there in the first place ???

 

 

 

God inspired people to write His Word down for posterity. People are imperfect, and that is why some people see imperfection in God's Word. For example, Atheists are quick to point out anything they perceive to be "imperfect" in the Word of God and even what they see as "imperfection" of God. One of my Atheist friends thinks very negatively of God because of what he deems are "imperfections." :(

 

However, I do not see God as imperfect at all because I know Him, though I have never seen Him with my human eyes. In the same way, I do not see the Word of God as imperfect because I know God is Perfect. :)

 

and Peace and Mercy of God be upon you as well

 

 

 

Thank you. :) Peace and God bless you

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placid and christianlady  thank you very much both of you for your efforts and contributions to get this discussion forward.

 

 

 

God was sorry, or ‘regretted’ the outcome of giving mankind ‘free will.’
We can’t be sure of the exact sentiment of God when He said He was sorry He made man as He did.

 

yes this is what i was trying to say in my previous post as God clearly expressed regret not for the fall of mankind but creating mankind itself. what i mean is he was not saying i am sorry that i created them in a sympathetic sense because if he was then why did he almost went on to destroy all of manking ? if he regretted giving freewill to mankind then it`s like saying he didn`t knew the outcome of his creation.

 

The Quran teaches us not to give God`s attributes to anyone else nor to give human attributes to God Almighty who is far above from such things and this is a very important aspect of Islamic Monotheism as without it the attribute of being THE ONE AND ONLY will come down under questions. Islamic monotheism is very much different than the concept of monotheism in other faiths as it raise the creator above characteristics of creation such as forgetting, making mistakes. being unaware of something, being unjust with anyone etc etc and it also denies the creation any characteristics of the creator.

 

the point i`m trying to make here is to regret is a human attribute, like for example we regret when we make a mistake but since God is above making mistakes how could be sorry for his own actions ? i`m not raising this question unnecessarily for fun or anything because there are many people who believe in the Bible but are bothered by this passage. @Christianlady of course i believe God is absolutely perfect in everything he does, those who doubt his perfect are turning a blind eye on the everything around them as there are many signs in the universe which displays the perfection of God in their creation and operation, and i ask God to increase us in beneficial knowledge and guide us on the straight path towards salvation and his love, Aameen.

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Hello Faris88_,

 

placid and christianlady  thank you very much both of you for your efforts and contributions to get this discussion forward.

 

 


No problem :) Thank you for your kindness in the discussion. :)

 

yes this is what i was trying to say in my previous post as God clearly expressed regret not for the fall of mankind but creating mankind itself. what i mean is he was not saying i am sorry that i created them in a sympathetic sense because if he was then why did he almost went on to destroy all of manking ? if he regretted giving freewill to mankind then it`s like saying he didn`t knew the outcome of his creation.

 

 

I disagree. The Bible teaches that God knows everything. For example, Psalm 139 of David shows that God knows us before He forms us. King David obviously did not let the wording of Genesis 6:5-7. David read the Torah in Hebrew, the original language, and understood it. God inspired him to write many Psalms, including Psalm 139. He wrote the Psalms with a clear understanding of who God is and of the Torah.
 

 

the point i`m trying to make here is to regret is a human attribute, like for example we regret when we make a mistake but since God is above making mistakes how could be sorry for his own actions ?

 

 

God is not a robot, devoid of feelings. It greatly displeases and angers God when His creation disobeys Him. (I boldened some in the verses below.)

 

"Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die." - Ezekiel 18:23-24

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/Ezekiel18.html

 

God takes pleasure in when His creation obeys Him. The word "sorry" or "repent" in Genesis 6 does not have to do with human aspects, but rather with God's displeasure at disobedient humans.

 

i`m not raising this question unnecessarily for fun or anything because there are many people who believe in the Bible but are bothered by this passage

 

 

Understood. Have you ever thought of King David was bothered by this passage? Have you ever though if Jesus Christ was bothered by this passage? When I find verses in the Bible that trouble me (they are the violent verses), I ask myself about David's view and Jesus Christ's teachings.

 

. @Christianlady of course i believe God is absolutely perfect in everything he does, those who doubt his perfect are turning a blind eye on the everything around them as there are many signs in the universe which displays the perfection of God in their creation and operation, and i ask God to increase us in beneficial knowledge and guide us on the straight path towards salvation and his love, Aameen.

 

Amen! :)

 

Thank you for the wonderful prayer for us. I join in prayer with you asking for God's knowledge. I am thankful for His guidance through Jesus Christ! :)

 

Peace and may God greatly bless you! :)

 

Edited by Christianlady

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Hi Faris88,

Quote from Post 9:
The point i`m trying to make here is to regret is a human attribute, like for example we regret when we make a mistake but since God is above making mistakes how could be sorry for his own actions ?

Response: --- That is a reasonable question because we can’t apply human attributes to God who is eternal. --- However, we have to express things in our own language.

In the NT there is a verse that says in 2 Peter 3:
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering (patient) toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to ‘repentance.’

--- If God ‘is not willing’ that any should perish, --- that means, IT IS GOD’S WILL that everyone be ‘saved,’ does it not? --- Then why doesn’t He just save everybody?
--- But with human nature and free will, we see that --- HIS WILL is that all should come to ‘repentance.’ --- It is like saying, No repentance, No salvation.
--- So personal salvation then depends on ‘man’s will,’ --- does it not?
If man does not repent before God and yield his life to Him, then that person is still following his own will.

Let’s look at this from another angle. --- God is never at a loss because there are thousands that have repented and are ready to do His will, --- and when this life is over, they have the reward of heaven.

If some start out well with God and then fail, God just chooses another to take his place. --- God can ‘regret’ that more people don’t come to repentance, but on the other hand, God rejoices over the multitudes that have repented.

Luke 15:10 “Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”


In the time of Noah, it says in Genesis 6:
5 “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
--- If all of man’s thought were --- ‘only evil continuously,’ --- that means there was no thought of God, so God certainly ‘regretted’ the outcome, and He said He would wipe the wicked off the face of His world and start over.

Another example: --- In Genesis the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah had become so wicked that God sent 2 angels to destroy them. --- The Lord told Abraham what they were doing, and God interceded for Sodom this way in Genesis 18:
24 Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous
26 So the LORD said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.”
28 Suppose there were five less than the fifty righteous; would You destroy all of the city for lack of five?”
So He said, “If I find there forty-five, I will not destroy it.”
29 And he spoke to Him yet again and said, “Suppose there should be forty found there?”
So He said, “I will not do it for the sake of forty.”
30 Then he said, “Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Suppose thirty should be found there?”
So He said, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
31 And he said, “Indeed now, I have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose twenty should be found there?”
So He said, “I will not destroy it for the sake of twenty.”
32 Then he said, “Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but once more: Suppose ten should be found there?”
And He said, “I will not destroy it for the sake of ten.”
33 So the LORD went His way as soon as He had finished speaking with Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.
When a place comes to the point where there are so few righteous ones it becomes a plague on the land. --- If the righteous were destroyed, they would go to heaven, so they enter their reward.

Somebody said about Sodom and Gomorrah, “Because their sin was basically homosexuality, --- ‘Aids’ may have started among them.” --- And could have spread through the country, as it did 2-3 decades ago in Africa.

In our society today when people and governments have rejected God, and terrorists kill Christians, we are coming close to the point again that God will intervene.
--- So God will save the righteous and destroy the wicked, (unless they come to repentance.)

Placid

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