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hesham102001

Who Is The Imam Of Fatima Zahra (S.a.)?

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So-called Muslims like Ibn Taymiyyah claim that – Allah forbid – Fatima Zahra (s.a.) was wrong in her claim over Fadak. At any rate, she should not have severed all communication from Abu Bakr and Umar. They were the rulers (haakim) of the time and she should have been cordial with them.


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There is an interesting incident on the subject. At the end, readers can easily conclude whether Fatima Zahra (s.a.) was right or wrong and the message she sent across generations of Muslims by refusing to communicate with Abu Bakr and Umar. Being an infallible, there was complete wisdom in her stand that frustrates Muslims till date when they are called upon to answer the question –


 


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Who is the Imam of Fatima Zahra (s.a.)?


Allamah Amini (r.a.) corners Muslim scholars


Some Saudi Salafi scholars invited Allamah Amini (r.a.) – the author of the Al-Ghadeer, arguably the most decisive book on the event of Ghadeer – for dinner. However Allamah Amini (r.a.) turned down their invitation. They insisted that Allmah Amini (r.a.) accompany them. On insistence, Allmah Amini (r.a.) acceded to their request. However, he put a condition that there would be no discussion or debate over dinner. They agreed. After dinner, a Salafi scholar in the assembly (there were around 70-80 of them) attempted to initiate a discussion. However, Allamah Amini (r.a.) refused to be drawn into a debate.


Some of them suggested that in order to increase divine blessings, every scholar in the gathering should narrate a tradition from the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) so that the gathering is illuminated through it.


Those present there were are renowned traditionalists (Haafiz-e-hadees), a title conferred on those who have memorized at least a hundred thousand traditions. They started narrating traditions one by one until it was Allamah Amini’s (r.a.) turn.


Allamah Amini (r.a.) said – My condition for narrating the tradition is that when I have narrated the same, each one should confirm whether he considers this tradition authentic or not.


All those present agreed.


Thus Allamah Amini (r.a.) narrated the famous tradition of the Holy Prophet of Islam (s.a.w.a.):


قال رسول الله (صلوات الله علیه و آله ) : من مات و لم یعرف امام زمانه مات میته جاهلیه


‘One who dies without recognising the Imam of his time dies the death of ignorance.


Thereafter he asked each and every person to testify the authenticity of the tradition. Everyone testified that the tradition was indeed authentic.


Then Allamah Amini (r.a.) said: Now that you all accept this tradition, I have a question for each one of you:


Did Fatima Zahra (s.a.) recognise the Imam of her time or not? And if she did, who was the Imam of Fatima Zahra (s.a.)?


All the scholars present fell silent for a long time, with their heads bowed down. And since they didn’t have any reply, they began leaving the assembly one by one.


Clearly they were in a fix.


If they claim – she didn’t recognize (her Imam), then they are saying Fatima Zahra (s.a.) left the world in a state of disbelief (Allah forbid), and it is impossible that the Chief of all Women of the Worlds dies a disbeliever (Allah forbid)!


If they say she did recognize (her Imam), then they have to find another Imam for her in place of Abu Bakr, since Bukhari (the most prominent scholar of Ahle Tasannun) says:


ماتت و هي ساخته عليهما


Fatima (s.a.) left the world in a state of intense anger at Abu Bakr (and Umar – as the narration says علیهما i.e. both of them)


Since the Ahle Tasannun scholars were cornered and had no option but to testify to the legitimacy and leadership Ali b. Abi Talib (a.s.), they left the assembly with their heads hanging in shame.


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Ibn Taymiiah was a Nasibi, he accused Fatima (as) of being hypocrite, Many many Sunni scholars condemned Ibn Taymiiah. Even he accused Fatima and Ali of stealing the money of Muslims (Baitul Mal). He says Umar attacked home of Fatima because there were money of Muslims (Baitul Mal) in her home !!

Nowadays poor and unaware Sunnies are deceived and they are told Ibn Taymiiah was a great scholar !!!

Edited by maes

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Just because she left in a state of anger with them, doesn't mean she didn't acknowledge them as rulers. But the authentic Sunni hadith doesn't say "of their time", it rather says "Who dies not knowing their Imam, dies the death of ignorance". 

 

Sunnis take the Imam to be Mohammad, and I'm sure the Sunni scholars are aware their authentic one says that, as opposed to the additional phrase "of their time".


This is most likely a made up story.

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Just because she left in a state of anger with them,

This is most likely a made up story.

"Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111

- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

Have some respect and use (as) after the leader of women of heaven

Like I said May Allah curse the illegitimately born caliphs (la) that burnt the house of the daughter of the prophet (saw). Sunni hadiths prove them burning the house you clearly have no knowledge just making empty comments.....So I advise you to be quiet....

You definitely are "struggling for the light" you need explaining on every topic because you know nothing you clearly haven't read much and you are struggling for even the basic type of common sense

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Just because she left in a state of anger with them, doesn't mean she didn't acknowledge them as rulers. But the authentic Sunni hadith doesn't say "of their time", it rather says "Who dies not knowing their Imam, dies the death of ignorance". 

 

Sunnis take the Imam to be Mohammad, and I'm sure the Sunni scholars are aware their authentic one says that, as opposed to the additional phrase "of their time".

This is most likely a made up story.

 

 

Hadith - Al-Bukhari and Muslim, and other narration by at-Tirmidhee (no. 2867) and Ahmad (4/130).

Allaah’s Messenger (SAAWS) said, "He who sees from his ruler something he dislikes, let him be patient with him, for he who splits away from the Jamaa’ah by a handspan and then dies, dies a death of Jaahiliyyah" and in a narration, "then he has thrown off the yoke of Islaam from his neck."

 

 

Anyway, this topic was discussed here: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235020576-who-is-fatima-zahraass-imam/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And one of the answers they have is this narration, which is authentic by their standards -

 

 

وَقَالَ أَبُو يَعْلَى الْمُوصِلِيُّ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ صَالِحٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ فُضَيْلٍ ، عَنِ الْوَلِيدِ بْنِ جُمَيْعٍ ، عَنْ أَبِي الطُّفَيْلِ ، قَالَ : جَاءَتْ فَاطِمَةُ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ ، فَقَالَتْ : يَا خَلِيفَةَ رَسُولِ الله صَلَّى الله عَلَيه وسَلَّم ، أَنْتَ وَرِثت رَسُولِ الله أَمْ أَهْلُهُ ؟ قَالَ : بَلْ أَهْلُهُ قَالَتْ : فَمَا بَالُ سَهْمِ رَسُولِ الله صَلَّى الله عَلَيه وسَلَّم ؟ قَالَ : إِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ الله صَلَّى الله عَلَيه وسَلَّم ، يَقُولُ : إِذَا أَطْعَمَ الله , عَزَّ وَجَلَّ , نَبِيًّا طُعْمَةً ، ثُمَّ قَبَضَهُ جَعَلَهُ لِلَّذِي يَقُومُ بَعْدَهُ فَرَأَيْتُ أَنْ أَرُدَّهُ عَلَى الْمِسْلِمِينَ ، فَقَالَتْ : أَنْتَ وَرَسُولُ الله أَعْلَمُ.

 

[Abu Ya`la al-Mousili said: `Abdul-Rahman bin Salih said: Muhammad bin Fudayl said, from al-Walid bin Jumay` (bin `Abdullah), from abi al-Tufayl that he said: Fatima came to Abu Bakr and said: "O successor of Rassul-Allah (SAWS), did you inherit the messenger of Allah or his family?" He said: "His family." She asked: "Then what of the share of the messenger (SAWS)?" He replied: "I heard the messenger of Allah (SAWS) say: "If Allah the majestic and great gave a prophet a blessing then took his soul, it becomes for the one who took his place after him." So I decided that I should distribute it among the Muslims." Fatima told him: "You and the messenger of Allah know best."]

 

As you can see, in this hadith they attribute to Fatima, peace be upon her, that she called Abu Bakr "successor of the Prophet", meaning she accepted his khilafa.

Edited by al-Ibrahimi

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Just because she left in a state of anger with them, doesn't mean she didn't acknowledge them as rulers. But the authentic Sunni hadith doesn't say "of their time", it rather says "Who dies not knowing their Imam, dies the death of ignorance". 

 

Sunnis take the Imam to be Mohammad, and I'm sure the Sunni scholars are aware their authentic one says that, as opposed to the additional phrase "of their time".

This is most likely a made up story.

Sunnies themselves narrate hadith from Ali (AS) that it is imam of the time. You can refer to the tafseer of Qurtubi about this verse :

 

(remember) the day when we will call every people with their imam; then whoever is given his book in his right hand, these shall read their book; and they shall not be dealt with a whit unjustly (Quran 17:71)

"Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111

- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

Have some respect and use (as) after the leader of women of heaven

Like I said May Allah curse the illegitimately born caliphs (la) that burnt the house of the daughter of the prophet (saw). Sunni hadiths prove them burning the house you clearly have no knowledge just making empty comments.....So I advise you to be quiet....

You definitely are "struggling for the light" you need explaining on every topic because you know nothing you clearly haven't read much and you are struggling for even the basic type of common sense

Sunnies are using this site, and Ahlul Bait (AS) ordered us to preserve their rights and Ahlul Bait (AS) wanted us not to curse caliphs so vividly ! this is contrary to the will of Ahlul Bait (AS). Cursing the oppressors to the Ahlul Bait (AS) is enough. 

Please be careful.

In Zyiarat Ashura we do not curse caliphs directly, do we !?

Muawiah, Yazid and .... are exceptions.

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Why are you guys worshipping people who are dead? And why do you guys think that if Ali ra was here, he would be by your side and call human beings infallible? He would probably see the shia as Kafir for taking others besides Allah swt. Or for the fact, you(shia) use Ali ra in your prayers? Trust me. The whole idea of Islam is there is one God and noone else. The fact that Shia contribute Godness to their 'epic 12 imams' would be reason enough for Ali ra if he would be alive to kill you.

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Why are you guys worshipping people who are dead? And why do you guys think that if Ali ra was here, he would be by your side and call human beings infallible? He would probably see the shia as Kafir for taking others besides Allah swt. Or for the fact, you(shia) use Ali ra in your prayers? Trust me. The whole idea of Islam is there is one God and noone else. The fact that Shia contribute Godness to their 'epic 12 imams' would be reason enough for Ali ra if he would be alive to kill you.

Yeah I'm sure Ali would kill Shias, ISIS after all is the true party of God.

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ISIS are Israeli lovers. I'm against killing of the innocent wether they are shia or sunni. Im just making a point, if Ali ra was alive and any of you Shia would come up to him in his face telling about those 12 Devine creatures u took beside Allah swt, he would surely kill you.

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Are you sure you want to put these insulting words in the mouth of Muhammed saw? Muhammed saw according to you said that there will be 12 guys after him all of whom are free of sin and know the Unseen like Allah swt? You better get back to Islam my Shia brother! Islam does not play games like Christianity. Only one God and Eternal everything else will perish.

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ISIS are Israeli lovers. I'm against killing of the innocent wether they are shia or sunni. Im just making a point, if Ali ra was alive and any of you Shia would come up to him in his face telling about those 12 Devine creatures u took beside Allah swt, he would surely kill you.

 

We have no doubt that if Ali (AS) was in this world he would kill those who exaggerate about him and spread such exaggeration about him in public if they do not repent.

 

But there is a big confusion. Twelver Shias do not consider those promised twelve imams besides Allah. But they are tools to reach Allah. Sunnies also do believe in tawassol.

 

Why do not you refer to the duas of Shias. 

 

http://www.duas.org/kumayl.htm

http://www.duas.org/nudba.htm

http://www.duas.org/tawassul.htm

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Are you sure you want to put these insulting words in the mouth of Muhammed saw? Muhammed saw according to you said that there will be 12 guys after him all of whom are free of sin and know the Unseen like Allah swt? You better get back to Islam my Shia brother! Islam does not play games like Christianity. Only one God and Eternal everything else will perish.

 

Even Lucifer believes in one God ! he believes in the other world !! but he denied caliph of Allah on earth !!! because of his racism, selfishness, arrogance .....

 

Would not it be dangerous for me and you to deny caliph of Allah on earth too ! 

Shall not we be careful !

What if Allah wanted us to follow Ali (AS) after Muhammad ? what if Muhammad (PBUH) appointed Ali ? Who was better than Ali (AS) !?

What if Mahdi is alive !

Should not we search to know and get familiar with caliphs of Allah on earth ?

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Are you sure you want to put these insulting words in the mouth of Muhammed saw? Muhammed saw according to you said that there will be 12 guys after him all of whom are free of sin and know the Unseen like Allah swt? You better get back to Islam my Shia brother! Islam does not play games like Christianity. Only one God and Eternal everything else will perish.

 

Attributing the knowledge of the Unseen to the Ahlulbayt is not from among our fundamental beliefs, in fact, Shaykh al-Mufeed said : 

 

“... Saying that they (Prophet and Imams) possess the knowledge of Ghayb should be refuted as being something clearly incorrect, because the attribute of this can only be for someone who possesses the knowledge of (all) things within himself, not the knowledge obtained from another. And this can only be for Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty. All Imamis agree on this except those who deviated from them and are called Mufawwidah and extremists (al-Ghulat).”(Awa’il al- Maqalaat, p38).

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You know whats weird, nowhere in the Quran are these 12 imams mentioned but somehow according to Shia they are vital for Islam. Did it slip the mind of Allah swt to tell us about these Imams?

They did not let Muhammad (pbuh) to write a testament, if it was mentioned in Quran, what would they do about Quran, the same as what Christians and Jews altered Quran. Quran should have been preserved. But many facts are mentioned indirectly in Quran when we look at sahih hadithes.

 

How many times the word month (شهر) is repeated in Quran, it is repeated twelve times and month of Ramadan is repeated only one time in Quran.

Quran is adequate about the numbers, it follows a harmony, you can search to know this.

 

The word Imam in singular and plural form is repeated twelve times in Quran.

Are you sure you want to put these insulting words in the mouth of Muhammed saw? Muhammed saw according to you said that there will be 12 guys after him all of whom are free of sin and know the Unseen like Allah swt? You better get back to Islam my Shia brother! Islam does not play games like Christianity. Only one God and Eternal everything else will perish.

Imams do not have all the unseen. Whatever they have it is from Allah himself. What is wrong with this ? They are caliphs and representations of Allah on earth.

Jesus (as) is alive, it is over 2000 years that he is alive.

 

The problem with Christianity is that they consider Jesus as God or incarnation of God. According to Shia, this makes people out of Islam and unclean. If any Shia believes this, other Shias do not marry with him and do buy or sell anything to him, he is unclean and a mushrik.

 

 

People became three groups about Jesus (as) the same that Muslims became three groups about Ali (as).

 

1- One group said Ali (or Jesus) was an ordinary human.

2- One group said that Ali (or Jesus) was appointed imam and caliph by Allah and his prophet.

3- One group said that Ali (or Jesus) was god and incarnation of God.

 

The second group is right and will prosper.

Edited by maes

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Even Lucifer believes in one God ! he believes in the other world !! but he denied caliph of Allah on earth !!! because of his racism, selfishness, arrogance .....

 

Would not it be dangerous for me and you to deny caliph of Allah on earth too ! 

Shall not we be careful !

What if Allah wanted us to follow Ali (as) after Muhammad ? what if Muhammad (pbuh) appointed Ali ? Who was better than Ali (as) !?

What if Mahdi is alive !

Should not we search to know and get familiar with caliphs of Allah on earth ?

If Ali ra was okay with it, why cant you? Shia are the biggest Ali ra worshippers but keep forgetting that Ali ra was okay with Abu Bakr being Caliph. He did not fight, he did not resolve to insults, he never said a thing about 12 imams but somehow Shia's curse Abu Bakr, they believe in 12 sinless men who are divine and they fight. How are you again the people Ali ra will love and protect? 

They did not let Muhammad (pbuh) to write a testament, if it was mentioned in Quran, what would they do about Quran, the same as what Christians and Jews altered Quran. Quran should have been preserved. But many facts are mentioned indirectly in Quran when we look at sahih hadithes.

 

How many times the word month (شهر) is repeated in Quran, it is repeated twelve times and month of Ramadan is repeated only one time in Quran.

Quran is adequate about the numbers, it follows a harmony, you can search to know this.

 

The word Imam in singular and plural form is repeated twelve times in Quran.

Imams do not have all the unseen. Whatever they have it is from Allah himself. What is wrong with this ? They are caliphs and representations of Allah on earth.

Jesus (as) is alive, it is over 2000 years that he is alive.

 

The problem with Christianity is that they consider Jesus as God or incarnation of God. According to Shia, this makes people out of Islam and unclean. If any Shia believes this, other Shias do not marry with him and do buy or sell anything to him, he is unclean and a mushrik.

 

 

People became three groups about Jesus (as) the same that Muslims became three groups about Ali (as).

 

1- One group said Ali (or Jesus) was an ordinary human.

2- One group said that Ali (or Jesus) was appointed imam and caliph by Allah and his prophet.

3- One group said that Ali (or Jesus) was god and incarnation of God.

 

The second group is right and will prosper.

I think you are not getting the picture here...Muhammed saw is the last Prophet. Ali ra was not a prophet nor did he ever say he was a prophet. Do not make Ali ra to be a prophet when even he himself told muslims to follow Allah swt and Muhammed saw.

 

Today I have perfected for you your religion, fulfilled on you My favor, and approved Islam as your religion.

 

 Hamdoulilah, Allah swt is very clear about this. Islam was perfected when Muhammed saw was still alive and he is the Last. Anyone who denies that is not a muslim.

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If Ali ra was okay with it, why cant you? Shia are the biggest Ali ra worshippers but keep forgetting that Ali ra was okay with Abu Bakr being Caliph. He did not fight, he did not resolve to insults, he never said a thing about 12 imams but somehow Shia's curse Abu Bakr, they believe in 12 sinless men who are divine and they fight. How are you again the people Ali ra will love and protect? 

It is even written in Sahih Bukhary that Sahabies disputed with each other about caliphate. A coup happened. They even attacked home of Fatima.

 

Was Aron okay that Israel tribe worshiped a goat !?

 

 

he (moses) said to aaron: 'when you saw them in error, what prevented you, (Quran 20:92)

قَالَ يَا هَارُونُ مَا مَنَعَكَ إِذْ رَأَيْتَهُمْ ضَلُّوا ﴿۹۲﴾

from following after me, did you disobey my order? ' (Quran 20:93)

أَلَّا تَتَّبِعَنِ أَفَعَصَيْتَ أَمْرِي ﴿۹۳﴾

'son of my mother, ' he replied, 'do not seize my beard nor my head. i was afraid that you might say: "you have divided the children of israel and did not uphold my word." (Quran 20:94)

I think you are not getting the picture here...Muhammed saw is the last Prophet. Ali ra was not a prophet nor did he ever say he was a prophet. Do not make Ali ra to be a prophet when even he himself told muslims to follow Allah swt and Muhammed saw.

Muhammad (PBUH) said : "Ali to me is Aron to Moses except that Ali is not a prophet after me"

 

 

 Hamdoulilah, Allah swt is very clear about this. Islam was perfected when Muhammed saw was still alive and he is the Last. Anyone who denies that is not a muslim.

"Today I have perfected for you your religion, fulfilled on you My favor, and approved Islam as your religion."

This verses are revealed when Muhammad PBUH appointed Ali AS as the caliph and his successor.

 

Let me show an example from Ahlul-Sunnah. Suyuti the Sunni scholar says in his Tafseer book that :

وأخرج ابن مردويه عن ابن مسعود قال‏:‏ كنا نقرأ على عهد رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏{‏يا أيها الرسول بلغ ما أنزل اليك من ربك‏}‏ ان عليا مولى المؤمنين ‏{‏وإن لم تفعل فما بلغت رسالته والله يعصمك من الناس‏}

Ibn Masuud says : We used to recite " o messenger, deliver what is sent down to you from your lord;(that Ali is Mawla of Mumenin), if you do not, you will not have conveyed his message. Allah protects you from the people. Allah does not guide the nation, the unbelievers. (Quran 5:67)"

http://www.al-eman.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D8%B1%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AB%D9%88%D8%B1%20%D9%81%D9%8A%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%B1%20%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%A3%D8%AB%D9%88%D8%B1%20**/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A2%D9%8A%D8%A9%20(67)%20%20-(0)/i108&d69385&c&s%D8%A3%D9%86%20%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%A7%20%D9%85%D9%88%D9%84%D9%8A%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%A4%D9%85%D9%86%D9%8A%D9%86&sttrue&sctrue&p1

Also it is said that Aluci and Shokani have quoted similar things too.

Does this mean that Quran is corrupt or altered ! no never, it meant that the highlighted part in the above verse is in fact a comment and a tafseer about the verse from Sahabies themselves and that religion is complete only when velayat of Ali is accepted and obeyed.

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Thank you admins for banning yaasine shaytan may Allah curse him inshallah Ameen

Attributing the knowledge of the Unseen to the Ahlulbayt is not from among our fundamental beliefs, in fact, Shaykh al-Mufeed said : 

 

“... Saying that they (Prophet and Imams) possess the knowledge of Ghayb should be refuted as being something clearly incorrect, because the attribute of this can only be for someone who possesses the knowledge of (all) things within himself, not the knowledge obtained from another. And this can only be for Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty. All Imamis agree on this except those who deviated from them and are called Mufawwidah and extremists (al-Ghulat).”(Awa’il al- Maqalaat, p38).

Sheikh mufid wasn't a infallible he made incorrect comments ...... Imams (as) have ilm Al ghaib and much more!

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Thank you admins for banning yaasine shaytan may Allah curse him inshallah Ameen

Sheikh mufid wasn't a infallible he made incorrect comments ...... Imams (as) have ilm Al ghaib and much more!

 

I don't know if they have some Ilm al-Ghayb, but they do not have all of it like Allah (s.w.t).
 
 
1 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن معمر بن خلاد قال: سأل أبا الحسن عليه السلام رجل من أهل فارس فقال له: أتعلمون الغيب؟ فقال: قال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: يبسط لنا العلم فنعلم ويقبض عنا فلا نعلم، وقال: سر الله عزوجل أسره إلى جبرئيل عليه السلام وأسره جبرئيل إلى محمد صلى الله عليه وآله، وأسرة محمد إلى من شاء الله.
 
A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Mu’ammar ibn Khallad who has said that a man from Persia asked abu al-Hassan, recipient of divine supreme covenant, the following:
 
“Do you know al-Ghayb (the hidden facts)? The Imam, recipient of divine supreme covenant, said, ‘Abu Ja‘far, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has said, “If it opens to us, then we know it, and if it is withheld from us then we do not know.”’ 
The Imam then said, ‘It is the secret of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, Who has secretly given it to Jibril and Jibril has secretly given it to Muhammad, recipient of divine supreme covenant, and Muhammad, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has secretly given it to whoever Allah wished.’”
 
Grading:

  1. Majlisi:"Saheeh" (Mirat ul uqool 3/110)
  2. Hadi Najafi:"Saheeh Sanad" (Mawsu'at Ahadith Ahl al-Bayt 8/214)

 

Edited by al-Ibrahimi

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