Is Abu Dhar Equal To Prophet Jesus In Taqwa?

[strinaauto]

(Salam)

Is it true that Abu dhar (ra) is equal to prophet isa (as) in taqwa? Can u provide evidence please? And if it's true that means imamate is higher that prophethood.

[Hameedeh]

Abu dhar RA is not an Imam, but a great companion. 

http://www.al-islam.org/abu-dharr-al-ghifari-kamal-al-sayyid    Get PDF

Edited September 27 by ShiaChat Mod
PDF link

[Momdi]

THE PROPHETS, ANGELS, AND SHAHIDS WILL ENVY THE SHIA

Mohammed bin al-Hasan bin Ahmed bin al-Waleed ® related to me from Mohammed bin al-Hasan as-Saffar… from Mohammed bin Qays and Aamir bin as-Simt that Abu Ja'far (a) related that the Prophet (s) said: "On the Day of Resurrection, some people dressing clothes of light with luminous faces whom will be identified by the signs of prostration will come.

They will overstep the rows until they stand in front of the Lord of the worlds. The prophets, angels, shahids, and righteous people will envy them Someone asked: "O Allah's Messenger, who are they whom the prophets, angels, shahids, and righteous men will envy?" The Prophet (s) answered: "They will be our Shia, and Ali will be their imam."

Refer to al-Mahaasin; 181 H.175, Bihar ul-Anwar; 7:180 H.19 and 68:123.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Momdi

[StrugglingForTheLight]

Allah has provided His Prophets from the treasures of His subtlety, generosity, and mercy. He has taught them from the wealth of His knowledge, and He has singled them out for Himself from among all creation. No one from the entire creation possesses a state or character similar to theirs, for He has made them the means for all creatures to come to Him.
 
He made obedience to and love for them the cause of His contentment, and opposition to them and rejection of them a cause for His wrath. He commanded all peoples and groups to follow the religion of their Messenger, rejecting any obedience other than by means of obedience to them, praise of them, recognition of their love, respect and veneration for them, esteem for them and deference to them, and rank with Allah.
 
Therefore glorify all the prophets of Allah, and do not place them in the same position as anyone inferior to them. Do not exercise your intellect regarding their stations, states, and character unless it is by a precise clarification from Allah, and a consensus of the people who have insight into the proofs which affirm their virtues and ranks. How can you arrive at the reality of what they have from Allah? If you compare their words and actions with any of the people below them, you will be a bad companion to them; you will have disclaimed their gnosis in ignorance of their being specially selected by Allah, and you will have dropped below the level of the truths of belief and gnosis. So take care, and take care again.

 

- Misbahal Shariah, Imam Jaffar [as]

[Momdi]

U have not answered my question.

Hazrat Abu zar (as) is greater than hazrat esa (as) in taqwa not equal since he was a shia of ali hopefully that answered your question....

[Khalilallah]

Hazrat Abu zar (as) is greater than hazrat esa (as) in taqwa not equal since he was a shia of ali hopefully that answered your question....

Can you explain what you have said and back it up with proofs please.

[Rodimus]

Hazrat Abu zar (as) is greater than hazrat esa (as) in taqwa not equal since he was a shia of ali hopefully that answered your question....

 

So, a companion is greater than a Prophet of Allah?

 

Huh?

[Momdi]

So, a companion is greater than a Prophet of Allah?

 

Huh?

Shia of ali yes according to shia hadiths.....

[StrugglingForTheLight]

The Quran clearly states Prophets are chosen specially above the worlds. Through out Quran, we see that God specially exalts those who he makes a means toward him and the path to follow. 

 

The Quran further says specially chosen ones inherited the book after revelation of Mohammad. The hadiths say this specifically the family of Mohammad, ie. Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain. 

 

Abu Dhar is not included in that, because, he is like all followers of Prophets and Chosen ones, a person that although has extreme Taqwa, is at the end not specially chosen by God and exalted to that degree of his chosen ones. 

 

The followers of Mohammad and Ali were not included in the chosen ones who inherited the book, and we know followers of Ali existed during the time of Mohammad as well, as Ali was the door to the city of knowledge and had the position to Mohammad as Harun had to Musa except he was not a Prophet.

 

To compare followers of chosen ones with the chosen ones, means you don't understand how the book introduced what God does with the best of his servants.

 

Basically you think people who God directly favors are made inferior to people who only receive favor through those whom Allah directly favors.

 

You are basically ignorant of God's chosen ones and might as well say we can reach the rank of Ahlulbayt.

 

 

You are comparing people who were pure through their life and free from injustice, to people who sin and must redeem themselves from sin.  You are comparing infallible humans with fallible humans.

 

 

[Momdi]

The Quran clearly states Prophets are chosen specially above the worlds. Through out Quran, we see that God specially exalts those who he makes a means toward him and the path to follow. 

 

The Quran further says specially chosen ones inherited the book after revelation of Mohammad. The hadiths say this specifically the family of Mohammad, ie. Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain. 

 

Abu Dhar is not included in that, because, he is like all followers of Prophets and Chosen ones, a person that although has extreme Taqwa, is at the end not specially chosen by God and exalted to that degree of his chosen ones. 

 

The followers of Mohammad and Ali were not included in the chosen ones who inherited the book, and we know followers of Ali existed during the time of Mohammad as well, as Ali was the door to the city of knowledge and had the position to Mohammad as Harun had to Musa except he was not a Prophet.

 

To compare followers of chosen ones with the chosen ones, means you don't understand how the book introduced what God does with the best of his servants.

 

Basically you think people who God directly favors are made inferior to people who only receive favor through those whom Allah directly favors.

 

You are basically ignorant of God's chosen ones and might as well say we can reach the rank of Ahlulbayt.

 

 

You are comparing people who were pure through their life and free from injustice, to people who sin and must redeem themselves from sin.  You are comparing infallible humans with fallible humans.

I suggest you read this book http://www.najaf.org/english/book/23/

Shia of Ali is not a small matter.....

[StrugglingForTheLight]

I suggest you read this book http://www.najaf.org/english/book/23/

Shia of Ali is not a small matter.....

(45) THE IMAMS ARE THE INTERCESSORS OF PARADISE

Mohammed bin Musa bin al-Mutawakkil ® narrated to us that Mohammed bin Yahya al-Attar narrated to him from Ahmed bin al-Ayes… that Ja'far bin Mohammed (a) said: "On the Day of Resurrection, we will intercede for the sinful individuals among our Shia. Allah will save the righteous ones."

 

 

So you comparing sinners with sinless humans. Good job buddy.

 

May God save us from pure stupidity in his religion and going into extremes.

[IloveImamHussain]

Is it true that Abu dhar (ra) is equal to prophet isa (as) in taqwa? 

 

Of course not. There is absolutely no reason to suggest that any other individual can be greater than prophets and Imams.

 

Hazrat Abu zar (as) is greater than hazrat esa (as)

 

Nonsense

 

Absolute nonsense

[Momdi]

Of course not. There is absolutely no reason to suggest that any other individual can be greater than prophets and Imams.

Nonsense

Absolute nonsense

Not the imams (as) no one is greater than the imams (as). We are discussing about past prophets (as) excluding prophet Mohammad (saw). Stay on topic and read what is being discussed don't just make empty comments.

(45) THE IMAMS ARE THE INTERCESSORS OF PARADISE

Mohammed bin Musa bin al-Mutawakkil ® narrated to us that Mohammed bin Yahya al-Attar narrated to him from Ahmed bin al-Ayes… that Ja'far bin Mohammed Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: "On the Day of Resurrection, we will intercede for the sinful individuals among our Shia. Allah will save the righteous ones."

So you comparing sinners with sinless humans. Good job buddy.

May God save us from pure stupidity in his religion and going into extremes.

Allah will judge us by the degree of marefat (recognition) we have of our imam (as) not sins.

Let's not forget even yazids(la) army prayed salat, kept fast, hajj, etc.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Momdi

[Abu Nur]

Now we have shia's who compare companions (non-imam) with prophets and especially with Ulul'azm Anbiya. Very sad.

[Sumerian]

No he isn't. Prophet 'Isa (a.s) was a Prophet of God, in fact from the Ulul Azm. Abu Dhar (r.a) is a great companion, may Allah be pleased with him, but he is not greater that Prophet 'Isa (a.s). The Shi'a view is that Prophets are infallible, in fact 'Isa (a.s) was a Prophet since birth. Abu Dhar had to convert/revert to the right religion.

 

Let's not exaggerate the status of the companions of the Prophet or the Imams - in fact, we (Shi'a) are not in agreement whether the Imams themselves were greater or the Prophets were greater. There's no consensus.

Edited March 24, 2015 by al-Ibrahimi

[Momdi]

No he isn't. Prophet 'Isa (a.s) was a Prophet of God, in fact from the Ulul Azm. Abu Dhar (r.a) is a great companion, may Allah be pleased with him, but he is not greater that Prophet 'Isa (a.s). The Shi'a view is that Prophets are infallible, in fact 'Isa (a.s) was a Prophet since birth. Abu Dhar had to convert/revert to the right religion.

 

Let's not exaggerate the status of the companions of the Prophet or the Imams - in fact, we (Shi'a) are not in agreement whether the Imams themselves were greater or the Prophets were greater. There's no consensus.

You don't have any knowledge whenever you make a point you never back it up with any hadith just your own pointless emotional posts which have no meaning. I've just posted a hadith saying the past prophets (as) will envy the shia on the day of judgement due to their status yet you choose to ignore that and God forbid you are suggesting past prophets (as) are same level as imams (as)......imams (as) are the greatest of all creation.

If you have no knowledge keep quiet....

[Sumerian]

You don't have any knowledge whenever you make a point you never back it up with any hadith just your own pointless emotional posts which have no meaning. I've just posted a hadith saying the past prophets (as) will envy the shia on the day of judgement due to their status yet you choose to ignore that and God forbid you are suggesting past prophets (as) are same level as imams (as)......imams (as) are the greatest of all creation.

If you have no knowledge keep quiet....

 

What a sad comment. I never claimed the Prophets or the Imams were greater, or vice versa. Please don't accuse me of things. I said there's no consensus, meaning different scholars say different views. I don't know whose better, I have ceased to have an opinion. 

[Jaafar al-Shibli]

I have seen not Authentic narration concerning this in Shī'a literature, however the narration does definitely exist in Sunnī hadīth. One of the last sources I can recall, is from Sunan al-Tirmithī, Where the narration is considered Hasan (reliable) to the author, but weak (Da'eef) to a portion of the latter scholars, such as al-Albānī.

_________________________

(wasalam)

[Jaafar al-Shibli]

On 3/27/2015 at 3:46 AM, Jaafar Al-Shibli said:

I have seen not Authentic narration concerning this in Shī'a literature, however the narration does definitely exist in Sunnī hadīth. One of the last sources I can recall, is from Sunan al-Tirmithī, Where the narration is considered Hasan (reliable) to the author, but weak (Da'eef) to a portion of the latter scholars, such as al-Albānī.

_________________________

(wasalam)

However, despite the weakening, al-Albānī authenticated the narration based on the Shawād (Witnesses) that strengthen it. Revise: Silsilat' al-`ḥādīth al-Sahīhah, for al-Albānī, volume 5, Narration #2343.

[faris88_]

THE PROPHETS, ANGELS, AND SHAHIDS WILL ENVY THE SHIA

Mohammed bin al-Hasan bin Ahmed bin al-Waleed ® related to me from Mohammed bin al-Hasan as-Saffar… from Mohammed bin Qays and Aamir bin as-Simt that Abu Ja'far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã related that the Prophet (s) said: "On the Day of Resurrection, some people dressing clothes of light with luminous faces whom will be identified by the signs of prostration will come.

They will overstep the rows until they stand in front of the Lord of the worlds. The prophets, angels, shahids, and righteous people will envy them Someone asked: "O Allah's Messenger, who are they whom the prophets, angels, shahids, and righteous men will envy?" The Prophet (s) answered: "They will be our Shia, and Ali will be their imam."

Refer to al-Mahaasin; 181 H.175, Bihar ul-Anwar; 7:180 H.19 and 68:123.

 

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon them all) will be jealous of ordinary Muslims ??? i don`t think many Shiites agree with you on this, let alone others.

[faris88_]

On 3/23/2015 at 10:45 PM, Momdi said:

Not the imams (عليه السلام) no one is greater than the imams (عليه السلام). We are discussing about past prophets (عليه السلام) excluding prophet Mohammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Stay on topic and read what is being discussed don't just make empty comments.

 

whoever you are, take my sincere advice and READ THE HOLY QURAN.

[Hayder Ali Kazmi]

Ya Ali asws Madad

After reading whole discussion i want to say something ..i dont want to hurt anybody .let come to point

there is a very famous hadees Of Rasool Allah pbuh that ulema (aalims) of my umat (nation) are superior than Prophts of Bani_israel and it has been proved from History and Hadees Books that prophets of bani israeel were Superior than All Prophts excluding Our Prophet Hazrat Muhammad pbuh ,and this hadees is from Suuni authentic source .the most important thing is that Shia ulemaas(aalims) also believe in this hadees ....now its my Request to all of you to think when a common aalim(altough he is sinfull) is superior then prophets of Bani israeel( aalims is non_masoom sinfull.with a limited knowledge)... now come to Personality of Hazrat abu_zar as..he was at At Higher level of Marrifat ..he was Very close to Moula Sarkar Ali Asws ..he was sincere and truthfull ..  i want to mention more  virtues fa Abu zar as but it is enough for this topic .....now u are honest then decide yourself Abu_zar as is superior then ulemas or not ....if yes then Abu_zar as is also superior then Prophets excluding Our Prophet Pbuh.............w/salam

Ya ali asws Madad

 

[Sumerian]

On 11/15/2016 at 2:49 AM, Hayder Ali Kazmi said:

Ya Ali asws Madad

After reading whole discussion i want to say something ..i dont want to hurt anybody .let come to point

there is a very famous hadees Of Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that ulema (aalims) of my umat (nation) are superior than Prophts of Bani_israel and it has been proved from History and Hadees Books that prophets of bani israeel were Superior than All Prophts excluding Our Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) ,and this hadees is from Suuni authentic source .the most important thing is that Shia ulemaas(aalims) also believe in this hadees ....now its my Request to all of you to think when a common aalim(altough he is sinfull) is superior then prophets of Bani israeel( aalims is non_masoom sinfull.with a limited knowledge)... now come to Personality of Hazrat abu_zar as..he was at At Higher level of Marrifat ..he was Very close to Moula Sarkar Ali Asws ..he was sincere and truthfull ..  i want to mention more  virtues fa Abu zar as but it is enough for this topic .....now u are honest then decide yourself Abu_zar as is superior then ulemas or not ....if yes then Abu_zar as is also superior then Prophets excluding Our Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).............w/salam

Ya ali asws Madad

 

That hadith does not exist in our Shi'a books of hadith.

Shaykh Hurr Al-Amili said this hadith is one of the fabrications of the aama (Sunnis). And it is even weak according to them.

How can a non-infallible be greater than an infallible? 

[Hayder Ali Kazmi]

3 hours ago, E.L King said:

That hadith does not exist in our Shi'a books of hadith.

Shaykh Hurr Al-Amili said this hadith is one of the fabrications of the aama (Sunnis). And it is even weak according to them.

How can a non-infallible be greater than an infallible? 

well this reply was for sunnies

now for u

every body is judge by  his rank of Marrifat of muhammad o ahl e Mouhammad asws...so can say eman is divided into  parts ..

now i will qoute a hadees from Al kafi

"there are 10 ranks/levels/degrees of iman().hazrat Miqdad as was on 8th rank/level/degrees. hazrat abu_zar as was on 9th level and Hazrat salman as was on 10 level/rank/or degree."

reff:asool e Kafi 331 in baab_ul_darjaat_ul_eman()and  Hayat ul Qaloob vol # 2 page #883

and history is witness that no one ever gain these levels of emen ....altough prophet Isa as was a prophet and a masoom ...but he was not on these levels of eman as abu zar (as) or salman (as) were

so according to above hadees

[Hayder Ali Kazmi]

On 3/24/2015 at 8:21 AM, E.L King said:

in fact 'Isa (a.s) was a Prophet since birth. .

 

Every prophet is prophet since birth ...declaration of prophethood after some time  was by will of Allah (like prophet isa as declare soon after birth and prophet Muhammad saw after 40 years ..but he saw was masoom and prophet since birth

[Sumerian]

On 11/15/2016 at 7:55 AM, Hayder Ali Kazmi said:

well this reply was for sunnies

now for u

every body is judge by  his rank of Marrifat of muhammad o ahl e Mouhammad asws...so can say eman is divided into  parts ..

now i will qoute a hadees from Al kafi

"there are 10 ranks/levels/degrees of iman().hazrat Miqdad as was on 8th rank/level/degrees. hazrat abu_zar as was on 9th level and Hazrat salman as was on 10 level/rank/or degree."

reff:asool e Kafi 331 in baab_ul_darjaat_ul_eman()and  Hayat ul Qaloob vol # 2 page #883

and history is witness that no one ever gain these levels of emen ....altough prophet Isa as was a prophet and a masoom ...but he was not on these levels of eman as abu zar (عليه السلام) or salman (عليه السلام) were

so according to above hadees

Umm, all the Prophets had perfect Iman in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as well. 

Salman and Abu Dharr aren't Ma'soom, they can commit sins, while a Prophet (S) can't.

In fact, the Imam (عليه السلام) is reported to have said yaqeen is a daraja above Iman.

[A true Sunni]

On 3/23/2015 at 8:14 PM, strinaauto said:

(Salam)

Is it true that Abu dhar (ra) is equal to prophet isa (as) in taqwa? Can u provide evidence please? 

Absolutely categorically not. No idea why people run around with these half baked ideas.

[Hayder Ali Kazmi]

2 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Umm, all the Prophets had perfect Iman in Allah (SWT) as well. 

Salman and Abu Dharr aren't Ma'soom, they can commit sins, while a Prophet (S) can't.

imam is not complete witout Marifat of Ahl e Bait asws and this is not my saying it is in Shia hadees ..if u believe in Allah but in Risalatof rasool Allah muhammad saw and imamat..then your eman is not complete.....and believe in imams depend upon your marifat of Masomeen 

[Sumerian]

Quote

And thus did We show Abraham the realm of the heavens and the earth that he would be among the certain [in faith]

Surat Al-An'am

 

So the Holy Qur'an says Ibrahim (عليه السلام) was from the "mooqineen", which means he had yaqeen. Yaqeen is one level above Iman, as reported by Imam Al-Sadiq (عليه السلام).

[Hayder Ali Kazmi]

2 minutes ago, E.L King said:

So the Holy Qur'an says Ibrahim (AS) was from the "mooqineen", which means he had yaqeen. Yaqeen is one level above Iman, as reported by Imam Al-Sadiq (AS).

 

 

1st

Hazrat ibrahim as was on level of imam as per Quran..and you know Imam is superior then Nubowat thats why he was on level of yaqeen 

As i read "Yaqeen" is very vast topic ...it is divided to many types but last one is Ain-ul-Yaqeen ...mean believing after watching..but this is another topic

let come to point

it is autentic hadees from shia source that only Allah knows Ahl-e-bait asws completly and only ahl e bait asws knows Allah Completly ...

[Sumerian]

Just now, Hayder Ali Kazmi said:

1st

Hazrat ibrahim as was on level of imam as per Quran..and you know Imam is superior then Nubowat thats why he was on level of yaqeen 

As i read "Yaqeen" is very vast topic ...it is divided to many types but last one is Ain-ul-Yaqeen ...mean believing after watching..but this is another topic

let come to point

it is autentic hadees from shia source that only Allah knows Ahl-e-bait asws completly and only ahl e bait asws knows Allah Completly ...

I don't deny what you are saying my dear brother, but I believe that the Prophets (S) had more maarifa and yaqeen than Salman (R) and Abu Dharr (R) who are also greats.

[Hayder Ali Kazmi]

8 minutes ago, E.L King said:

I don't deny what you are saying my dear brother, but I believe that the Prophets (S) had more maarifa and yaqeen than Salman (R) and Abu Dharr (R) who are also greats.

that is point that is your believe that prohets are superior and its another believe that sulman are superior

final Hadees for you ...from our beloved prophet saw that sulman is from my ahl e bait asws ..now u should decide ahl e bait asws are superior or Prophets....

u are my brother i am not forcing you to believe in what u dont want to 

[Sumerian]

Just now, Hayder Ali Kazmi said:

that is point that is your believe that prohets are superior and its another believe that sulman are superior

final Hadees for you ...from our beloved prophet saw that sulman is from my ahl e bait asws ..now u should decide ahl e bait asws are superior or Prophets....

u are my brother i am not forcing you to believe in what u dont want to 

These hadiths do not show that Salman (R) to be superior to the Prophets (S). The same hadith is used for Saad (R).

Sa`d b. `Abd al-Malik entered upon us. Abu Ja`far (as) would call him “Sa`d the Good”, and he was from the sons of `Abd al-`Aziz b. Marwan. He entered upon us whilst Abu Ja`far (as) was present and he began to weep so much just like a woman would weep. Abu Ja`far (as) said to him: Why do you cry, O Sa`d? He said: How can I not cry when I come from the lineage of the cursed tree of the Qur’an? So he (the Imam) said to him: You are not from them, you are an Umayyad from us, the Ahl al-Bayt. Have you not heard the saying of Allah (swt), speaking of Ibrahim? “Whosoever follows me is from me”. (14:36)

http://purifiedhousehold.com/the-tree-of-ahlulbayt-as/

[Hayder Ali Kazmi]

1 minute ago, E.L King said:

These hadiths do not show that Salman (R) to be superior to the Prophets (S). The same hadith is used for Saad (R).

 

 

it is clear in this hadees that u are from us mean u are from our follwers not from our family ..but in case of sulman as Rasool Allah asws said dont call him sulman farsi call him sulman muhammadi .and he from my ahl e bait  asws

[Sumerian]

1 minute ago, Hayder Ali Kazmi said:

it is clear in this hadees that u are from us mean u are from our follwers not from our family ..but in case of sulman as Rasool Allah asws said dont call him sulman farsi call him sulman muhammadi .and he from my ahl e bait  asws

No, the hadith has extremely similar wording to the one regarding Salman (R).

Both have "minaa Ahlulbayt" (from us, Ahlulbayt).