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Journey of Truth

Divine Hatred Of The Shia

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We have a whole section of this in al-Kafi. 

 

 
(باب) * (تشمير الثياب)
 
Section on pulling/rolling up the clothes
 
Ali b. Ibrahim, from his father, from ibn Mahboob, from Hisham b. Salim, from abi Baseer, from abi Ja'far (as), that the Prophet (pbuh) bequeathed a man from the tribe of Bani Tamim, so he (pbuh) said to him: "Beware not to let hang down the izar or the shirt, for indeed that is from arrogance and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì does not like arrogance."
 
Grading
 
Baqir Majlisi (Miratul Uqul, Volume 22, Page 338) : Hasan (good)
Bahboodi (Sahih al Kafi, Volume 3, Page 209): Sahih (authentic)
Ayatullah Hadi al Najafi (Mausu'ah ahadith ahlulbait, Volume 10 Page 16): Sahih (authentic)
 
I, insha Allah will find scholarly reference, and prove this is not a Salafi and "Wahabi" thing.

 

 

ahaha all you do is copy and paste from that non-muslim bhooker. Again, this hadith is speaking about a shirt, and you didnt even answer my points. I will take anything you post with a grain of salt. I dont trust non-muslims.

Edited by Ethics

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ahaha all you do is copy and paste from that non-muslim bhooker. Again, this hadith is speaking about a shirt, and you didnt even answer my points.

 the 'Izar' or the shirt.

 

What points - you want me to bring scholarly text? I'm trying to find. BTW I know Arabic so I check the translations thank you.

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I have many Sunni friends as I have had from when I was in school. We always used to play sports and hang out. My parents had me in a Sunni majority school. Once I was invited to a friends party who was a Sunni and I went to it. While I was there I noticed that people looked at me differently because i am a Shia and it was at that young age that I knew that the Sunnis have this deeply rooted hatred for us Shia.

 

My question to our beloved Sunni members, is why the hatred? why is it that you cannot stand Shias? what have we done to you? 

 

Is it because we have a love for the Ahlul Bayt? is it because we believe Imam Ali a.s is the true successor to the holy Prophet pbuh/hf? or is it that the majority of your schools of thought studied under one of our Imams a.s ?

 

What concrete hadith do you have that shows we as Shia will be thrown in Hell after we die and you as Sunni will be showered with blessings in paradise?

 

Even today, when I still hang out with some Sunni friends, when ever one of them wants to debate, we always have to call it off because some of them get very upset as they just cannot prove themselves.

 

You believe and we believe and Allah swt will be the judge. 

 

 

Sometimes, sometimes, when I go to a Shia masjid, I draw some looks too.  I can misinterpret them as hatred towards me but it just might be that certain Shia brothers are curious.

 

We do not hate you because you have done nothing wrong.  In fact, you are just as Muslim as I am.

 

Love for Ahlul Bayt [ra] is common among Sunnis and Shias.  Maybe monopolizing it offends certain Muslims who are not Shia.  You have no exclusive rights over Ahlul Bayt [ra].  The fact that our scholars studied under, or benefited from, them is enough of an argument, without getting into the details of it.

 

There is a Qur'anic verse which clearly forbids people from breaking up the religion into sects and each sect keeping to themselves, rejoicing, calling themselves Shia.  Then again, if you wish to be identified by that label, no problem.

 

Well, you should be happy if your uninformed Sunni friends cannot prove themselves.  You have it easy against them.  What are you complaining about?

 

 

They are clueless about history but you will see Shia are constantly brain washed at a young age regarding Sunnism. 

 

 

Unfortunately, this is true.  And I say this not to put anyone or any sect down.  However, the survival of a minority group, or at least of its ideology, depends on its readiness to engage with the majority whereas the majority is at ease, thinking that the minority is a negligible number.

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Salam,

I also have sunni friends, but none of them know the difference between Shia and sunni,

They also say that they love both the Ahlulbayt AS and muawiya, yazid abu bakr, omar, uthman etc

It makes no sense at all.. U can't love both, it's like saying u love both batman and the joker,

Just the mention of them #BULB

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They also say that they love both the Ahlulbayt AS and muawiya, yazid abu bakr, omar, uthman etc

It makes no sense at all.. U can't love both, it's like saying u love both batman and the joker,

 

 

You should consider retracting your statement (or analogy I should say) since it is extremely disrespectful irrespective of who you make out to be batman or joker.  But just to set the record straight, we do not love Yazeed.  As for loving Ahlul Bayt [may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them] as well as Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Muawiyah, may Allah be pleased with them all, it has to do with how the Prophet [saw] treated them.  He [saw] loved them so we, too, love them.

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You should consider retracting your statement (or analogy I should say) since it is extremely disrespectful irrespective of who you make out to be batman or joker.  But just to set the record straight, we do not love Yazeed.  As for loving Ahlul Bayt [may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them] as well as Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Muawiyah, may Allah be pleased with them all, it has to do with how the Prophet [saw] treated them.  He [saw] loved them so we, too, love them. 

 

But this is the bone of contention between us and something we as Shia are always puzzled by. How can you love the ones who oppressed those most beloved to the Prophet (saww)?

 

The reason why the mukhalifin hate us is because yes we are lovers of ahlulbayt (as) and the traditions of the Imams (as) state that we will be faced with enmity from our opponents for loving them so it's something we will have to face.

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1.  But this is the bone of contention between us and something we as Shia are always puzzled by. How can you love the ones who oppressed those most beloved to the Prophet (saww)?

 

The reason why the mukhalifin hate us is because yes we are lovers of ahlulbayt (as) and the traditions of the Imams (as) state that we will be faced with enmity from our opponents for loving them so it's something we will have to face.

 

 

1.  Well, like I said earlier, the Prophet [saw] loved his family [ra] and his Companions [ra].  There was no oppression; the only oppression is what you subjugate Muslims to by driving a wedge in the ummah, all based on whims.  You divorce Ahlul Bayt [ra] from Sahaba [ra], two very critical foundations of our deen, and you continue to push forward with this torment.

 

2.  Seriously, it is fun to play the victim but after a while, it is not cute so you might as well put your big boy pants on and man up.  It is good to see that you have traditions from the Imams [ra] but we have traditions from Rasulullah [saw] none of which paint a picture of the Sahaba [ra] in the light that you see them.

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I have many Sunni friends as I have had from when I was in school. We always used to play sports and hang out. My parents had me in a Sunni majority school. Once I was invited to a friends party who was a Sunni and I went to it. While I was there I noticed that people looked at me differently because i am a Shia and it was at that young age that I knew that the Sunnis have this deeply rooted hatred for us Shia.

 

My question to our beloved Sunni members, is why the hatred? why is it that you cannot stand Shias? what have we done to you? 

 

Is it because we have a love for the Ahlul Bayt? is it because we believe Imam Ali a.s is the true successor to the holy Prophet pbuh/hf? or is it that the majority of your schools of thought studied under one of our Imams a.s ?

 

What concrete hadith do you have that shows we as Shia will be thrown in Hell after we die and you as Sunni will be showered with blessings in paradise?

 

Even today, when I still hang out with some Sunni friends, when ever one of them wants to debate, we always have to call it off because some of them get very upset as they just cannot prove themselves.

 

You believe and we believe and Allah swt will be the judge. 

 

From my personal experience, this hatred stems from propaganda and misinformation. Many sunnis don't even know what shia's beliefs are. Most don't bother searching or asking and just avoid us altogether. Some of my friends didn't even realise I was shia until I told them. I am lucky enough or unlucky enough to not have a generic shia name. I once explained to my friend what we shias believe in and she was astonished of how similar our beliefs were. She was taught that we have an exotic weird belief system that vaguely resembles Islam.  

 

If the hatred continues after all misunderstandings are cleared up, it is likely a result of envy. It is very difficult to abandon what you believe in, even if you know it's wrong. The stigma attached to shias doesn't help either. I don't think a person who is honest to himself will choose any other path other than the one of Ahl albayt when confronted with the truth, but changing your belief may mean being alienated from your family and community. 

 

So basically, it's either ignorance or jealousy. 

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From my personal experience, this hatred stems from propaganda and misinformation. Many sunnis don't even know what shia's beliefs are. Most don't bother searching or asking and just avoid us altogether. Some of my friends didn't even realise I was shia until I told them. I am lucky enough or unlucky enough to not have a generic shia name. I once explained to my friend what we shias believe in and she was astonished of how similar our beliefs were. She was taught that we have an exotic weird belief system that vaguely resembles Islam.  

 

If the hatred continues after all misunderstandings are cleared up, it is likely a result of envy. It is very difficult to abandon what you believe in, even if you know it's wrong. The stigma attached to shias doesn't help either. I don't think a person who is honest to himself will choose any other path other than the one of Ahl albayt when confronted with the truth, but changing your belief may mean being alienated from your family and community. 

 

So basically, it's either ignorance or jealousy. 

 

Very interesting and true thoughts brother.

 

I like to study the other side, I love to engage now with Sunnis regarding history as I have over the past year started learning more and more about our own Shia History and beliefs. 

 

As you and other in this topic have said, some Sunnis follow like sheep not knowing the truth behind the followers of the Prophet pbuh and the Ahlul Bayt a.s

 

I have seen many Sunnis convert to Shia after learning, first they are aggressive but when you finally get them to open there heart some of them actually see the truth.

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In my twenty one years in the Dunya, I have learned that people hate what they fear or cannot understand.

Anyway, this is off the subject but what does #BULB stand for?

For the sake of the sunnis, I think it's better it I pm u what it means lol

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There is a Qur'anic verse which clearly forbids people from breaking up the religion into sects and each sect keeping to themselves, rejoicing, calling themselves Shia.  Then again, if you wish to be identified by that label, no problem.

 

 

Contradicting yourself ? Are you against Quranic verse ?

 

We do not hate you because you have done nothing wrong.  In fact, you are just as Muslim as I am.

 

 

Or may be you not able to understand Quran or your Scholar said .. Only shia word is used in that verse and no where else ? right ?

 

Take time no need to hurry ... Enjoy sometime . Discussions are for enjoyment too , bcoz we are playing with knowledge. :lol:

You should consider retracting your statement (or analogy I should say) since it is extremely disrespectful irrespective of who you make out to be batman or joker.  But just to set the record straight, we do not love Yazeed.  As for loving Ahlul Bayt [may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them] as well as Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Muawiyah, may Allah be pleased with them all, it has to do with how the Prophet [saw] treated them.  He [saw] loved them so we, too, love them.

 

What " WE " stand for ? if it is Sunnis then pardon me but you alone never means you are representing  of all Sunnis.

 

If you don't love yazeed then write " I dont love Yazeed " and you can write Maloon or Lanat it increased your sentence value more.

 

 

 

You should consider retracting your statement (or analogy I should say) since it is extremely disrespectful irrespective of who you make out to be batman or joker.  But just to set the record straight, we do not love Yazeed.  As for loving Ahlul Bayt [may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them] as well as Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Muawiyah, may Allah be pleased with them all, it has to do with how the Prophet [saw] treated them.  He [saw] loved them so we, too, love them.

 

The blue part , As per your knowledge .. Is prophet (pbuh) was able to know future of Ummah ? If answer is Yes .. Then how is this possible he will love specially " Muawiyah " even he was aware of Jung e Siffin ? And if you believe that he was not aware of Future of Ummah, then what all those Future Information came from ?

 

Take time no need to hurry ...

Edited by alirex

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muslim720, explain to me how the oppressed and the oppressor, the murdered and the murderer can both be [ra]

 

Something has got to give, putting on your big boy pants is a start if you cannot differentiate between the above.

 

 

Might I suggest a new nickname, Journey of ANYTHING BUT THE Truth!  Please list the oppressor and oppressed, the murderer and murdered.  I am keen to see you prove murder because if you fail to do so, you have fastened a rope around your neck which is tied to a boulder on the other end.

 

On second thought, you opened this topic wailing over the fact that you are hated.  When someone offers you an alternative, you go on the offensive.  Sometimes we are faced with situations not because of who we are but how we are.  Maybe they hate you not for the fact that you are Shia but because you are deceptive?!  Cry when you are down but unleash when the opportunity arises.  Happened to me a few days ago when I sparred this loud-mouth.  I hit him with a jab, flush on his nose and his eyes welled up.  He was gassing out and seeing my activity rate, he requested me to slow down.  As soon as I took my foot off the gas, with 30 seconds remaining in the round, he landed one punch and was taunting me engage with him.

 

 

 

 

1.  Contradicting yourself ? Are you against Quranic verse ?

 

 

Or may be you not able to understand Quran or your Scholar said .. Only shia word is used in that verse and no where else ? right ?

 

Take time no need to hurry ... Enjoy sometime . Discussions are for enjoyment too , bcoz we are playing with knowledge. :lol:

 

What " WE " stand for ? if it is Sunnis then pardon me but you alone never means you are representing  of all Sunnis.

 

If you don't love yazeed then write " I dont love Yazeed " and you can write Maloon or Lanat it increased your sentence value more.

 

 

 

 

The blue part , As per your knowledge .. Is prophet (pbuh) was able to know future of Ummah ? If answer is Yes .. Then how is this possible he will love specially " Muawiyah " even he was aware of Jung e Siffin ? And if you believe that he was not aware of Future of Ummah, then what all those Future Information came from ?

 

Take time no need to hurry ...

 

 

1.  I would have been against the Qur'anic verse had I applied the label of "Shia" to myself.

 

2.  Indeed!  Sometimes discussions are for enjoyment and can be amusing.  I am offering the brother equal ground and referring to him as a Muslim but he chooses to be known as "Shia", exactly what the Qur'an forbids him from.  Unfortunately for you, with all your mental games that have gone no where, you are on the same boat as he is.

 

3.  Then who represents all of Sunnis?  You will quote some retarded Saudi cleric or share a video.  At the most, it will be a statement by a handful of people.  That somehow qualifies as speaking on behalf of all Sunnis.  Sorry buddy, but our mosque on a slow day has enough to outnumber the number of individuals you might bring up.

 

4.  The Prophet [saw], regarding Imam Hassan [ra], said, "This son of mine is the chief of the people and will make peace between two factions of the Muslims."  The heads of the two factions were............yeah, rushed a bit, didn't ya!

Edited by muslim720

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Might I suggest a new nickname, Journey of ANYTHING BUT THE Truth!  Please list the oppressor and oppressed, the murderer and murdered.  I am keen to see you prove murder because if you fail to do so, you have fastened a rope around your neck which is tied to a boulder on the other end.

 

On second thought, you opened this topic wailing over the fact that you are hated.  When someone offers you an alternative, you go on the offensive.  Sometimes we are faced with situations not because of who we are but how we are.  Maybe they hate you not for the fact that you are Shia but because you are deceptive?!  Cry when you are down but unleash when the opportunity arises.  Happened to me a few days ago when I sparred this loud-mouth.  I hit him with a jab, flush on his nose and his eyes welled up.  He was gassing out and seeing my activity rate, he requested me to slow down.  As soon as I took my foot off the gas, with 30 seconds remaining in the round, he landed one punch and was taunting me engage with him.

 

I will give you 1 example and if you need a list I am happy to post.

 

The battle of Jamal, The murderers and oppressors fought Imam Ali a.s and you call both (ra) There are 2 main people that the Sunnis hold with high value (1 male and 1 female) These 2 oppressed Imam Ali a.s and his Shia and Fought them in this battle and of course Imam Ali a.s was the victor as the oppressors and murderers got wooped.

 

The issue with people like you is that in a forum while behind some computer screen you talk big, I have not seen to date a Sunni act big without 100 other Sunnis around him. That is a fact.

 

If we look at the world stage, where are the Sunni leaders without there western masters? oh wait let me check under the table oh there they are.

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There is a Qur'anic verse which clearly forbids people from breaking up the religion into sects and each sect keeping to themselves, rejoicing, calling themselves Shia.  Then again, if you wish to be identified by that label, no problem.

 

Ibn Kathir says:

 

(Of those who Farraqu Dinahum (split up their religion), and became sects, each sect rejoicing in that which is with it.) means, do not be of the idolators who split up their religion, i.e., changed it by believing in parts of it and rejecting other parts. Some scholars read this as Faraqu Dinahum, meaning "neglected their religion and left it behind them.'' These are like the Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, idol worshippers and all the followers of false religions, besides the followers of Islam, as Allah says:
 
﴿إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُواْ دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُواْ شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِى شَىْءٍ إِنَّمَآ أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ﴾
 
(Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects, you have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah) (6:159). The followers of the religions before us had differences of opinions and split into false sects, each group claiming to be following the truth. This Ummah too has split into sects, all of which are misguided apart from one, which is Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jama`ah, those who adhere to the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah and what was followed by the first generations, the Companions, their followers, and the Imams of the Muslims of earlier and later times. In his Mustadrak, Al-Hakim recorded that the Messenger of Allah was asked which of the sects was the saved sect and he said:
 
«مَا أَنَا عَلَيْهِ وَأَصْحَابِي»
 
(What I and my Companions are upon.)
 
You do agree with this right?
Edited by Dhulfikar

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Please list the oppressor and oppressed, the murderer and murdered

 

Muawiyah (murderer) and Hzt Ammar Yassir (raz); Muawiyah (murderer) and Hzt Hujr bin Adi (raz)

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1.  I will give you 1 example and if you need a list I am happy to post.

 

2.  The battle of Jamal, The murderers and oppressors fought Imam Ali a.s and you call both (ra) There are 2 main people that the Sunnis hold with high value (1 male and 1 female) These 2 oppressed Imam Ali a.s and his Shia and Fought them in this battle and of course Imam Ali a.s was the victor as the oppressors and murderers got wooped.

 

3.  The issue with people like you is that in a forum while behind some computer screen you talk big, I have not seen to date a Sunni act big without 100 other Sunnis around him. That is a fact.

 

4.  If we look at the world stage, where are the Sunni leaders without there western masters? oh wait let me check under the table oh there they are.

 

 

1.  A list you have for sure!  Belonging to a school within Islam that is all about instigating, I am not surprised that you have a list.  I mean, 1400 years and you would think even cheerleaders would pack up and leave but you are still at it.

 

2.  In Tarikh Al-Tabari, although one has to be careful with the narrations found in it, we read, "a man asked Aisha (رضّى الله عنها): 'O mother, what moved you and pushed you to this country?'  She answered: 'O son, to reconcile between people.' "

 

To reconcile, not wage war.  

 

A little more to drive this point home.

 

"The murderers of Uthman [ra] obviously did not want Aisha (رضّى الله عنها) to be successful in convincing Ali (رضّى الله عنه) to prosecute them.  'And the people who provoked the murder of Uthman [ra] had the worst sleep ever because they came close to be doomed.  They were discussing their plight the whole night until they agreed to ignite a war [between Aisha and Ali] in secret.  They took that as a secret so that no one would know what evil they were planning.  They woke up at dusk and while their neighbors did not feel them, they (the agitators) sneaked to do the dirty job in the darkness … they laid swords in the believers…' ” [Al-Tabari, vol.3, p.39, year 36H]
 
“The Saba’ites…who were fearing of peace…started throwing Aisha [ra] with lances while she was on her camel…Aisha said: ‘…remember Allah and Judgment Day.’  But the Saba’ites refused anything but to fight.  So the first thing Aisha [ra] said when the Saba’ites refused to stop was: ‘O people, curse the killers of Uthman [ra] and their friends.’ ” [Musnaf Ibn Abi Sheibah, vol.8, the Book of the “Camel” in the departure of Aisha, p.718]  Aisha’s contingent (رضّى الله عنها) then returned fire in order to defend the Prophet’s wife, and soon the matter escalated into an all out conflict.
 
3.  Well, you have quite a lofty opinion of Sunnis, and therefore of your own friends (the ones who are Sunni).  But if you could think clearly, instead of misinterpreting my sparring episode, you would have figured that I am here alone on ShiaChat, without any assistance, holding my own, Alhamdulilah.  As for acting tough, I box for the sake of Allah [swt], not for show-off.
 
4.  I would not call them Sunni leaders; they have forced themselves upon the masses.  But it is easy to deal with them, since their allegiance is well-known and out in the open, than to deal with hypocrites in the Iranian regime who pray for death of the West but when time comes, they have road maps ready for Western powers in order to assist them with colonization of Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

 

 

Ibn Kathir says:

 

 
You do agree with this right?

 

 

 

You still do not get it, do you?  There is the deeper meaning behind it and then there is the literal meaning.  The word used, in the verse, is "Shia".  And you accept that as a title for yourself.  So on a deeper level and in literal sense, it is disobedience towards Allah [swt].

 

Do you agree with this?

Edited by muslim720

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You still do not get it, do you?  There is the deeper meaning behind it and then there is the literal meaning.  The word used, in the verse, is "Shia".  And you accept that as a title for yourself.  So on a deeper level and in literal sense, it is disobedience towards Allah [swt].

 

Do you agree with this?

 

I remain silent as long you answer to my question.  :)

Edited by Dhulfikar

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Haters going to hate.  When your side isn't the truth, whether you are consciously aware of it or not, your subconscious is affected.  You become unstable, this burning feeling that something is off.  You can't have complete peace and tranquility, because only certainty provides that.  And our fitrah doesn't allow complete certainty with that which is false.  You feel something is wrong, but you can't describe it or even articulate it as such.  But it's there.  People are held by delusions and self defense mechanisms to compensate for the preservation of the short term ego.

 

Hence, you see the discomfort, hate, and prejudice.  It's the last mental refuge many have.  It's the fewest channels of energy to release, when one's mental energies are constantly exhausting themselves in maintaining lies, falsehoods, and delusions.

 

Not just in this issue, but in all things.  Of course the effects of the above are reduced in those without the burden of ego, and who are genuine and unfiltered seekers of truth.

Edited by magma

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Haters going to hate.  When your side isn't the truth, whether you are consciously aware of it or not, your subconscious is affected.  You become unstable, this burning feeling that something is off.  You can't have complete peace and tranquility, because only certainty provides that.  And our fitrah doesn't allow complete certainty with that which is false.  You feel something is wrong, but you can't describe it or even articulate it as such.  But it's there.  People are held by delusions and self defense mechanisms to compensate for the preservation of the short term ego.

 

Hence, you see the discomfort, hate, and prejudice.  It's the last mental refuge many have.  And this is before we even factor the extent of knowledge/ignorance of facts, history, etc. 

Well said.

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I remain silent as long you answer to my question.  :)

 

 

This is a win-win situation.  You will be silent so I do not have to hear from you.  And your silence might save you from sinning, like cursing noble Muslims, et cetera.

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You still do not get it, do you?  There is the deeper meaning behind it and then there is the literal meaning.  The word used, in the verse, is "Shia".  And you accept that as a title for yourself.  So on a deeper level and in literal sense, it is disobedience towards Allah [swt].

 

Do you agree with this?

 

As per your statement Hazrat Ibrahim (as) who mentioned as Shia of Noah (as) is Disobedience to Allah ?

 

We read in Surah As-Saffat (Ch:37) Verse 83:

“Verily Ibrahim was a Shi’a of Nuh”.

 

وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ {83}

 

Here used as Shia .. You can say like this

 

Bcoz i am Anti-Shia so i will interprete One shia word from one verse as per my own meaning and other Shia word from other verse as different meaning.  Then it become logical.

 

Even if you treat Shia as sect.

 

Ibrahim (as) is from the sect of Noah (as) .. Is this not simple ?

Edited by alirex

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This is a win-win situation.  You will be silent so I do not have to hear from you.  And your silence might save you from sinning, like cursing noble Muslims, et cetera.

If you have this kind of thinking, you really should refrain from these kind of discussion for awhile. My silence is reasonable, because you did not answer to a simple question that requires me to understand your viewpoint of the particular viewpoint that the majority Sunnis believe.

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In His Name

My dear bro wisdom i hope you pay a bit of attention to 29th post.I eagerly wait for your opinion about beginner of curse and spreader of hatred among muslims

Edited by myGod

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This Ummah too has split into sects, all of which are misguided apart from one, which is Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jama`ah, those who adhere to the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah and what was followed by the first generations, the Companions, their followers, and the Imams of the Muslims of earlier and later times. In his Mustadrak, Al-Hakim recorded that the Messenger of Allah was asked which of the sects was the saved sect and he said:

 
«مَا أَنَا عَلَيْهِ وَأَصْحَابِي»

 

In His Name
this narration express that splitting to sects are inevitable fact but the problem is every single sect consider themselves as one which be guided to the straight path and consider others misguided so what if companions of our prophet had friction among themselves which one we should follow?
As we saw in the very moment after our prophet departed this world these friction rose up.
even first and second caliph had lot of disagreement.
so we should reconsider in our understanding from our narration and the intellectual basis of them

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2.  In Tarikh Al-Tabari, although one has to be careful with the narrations found in it, we read, "a man asked Aisha (رضّى الله عنها): 'O mother, what moved you and pushed you to this country?'  She answered: 'O son, to reconcile between people.' "

 

To reconcile, not wage war.  

 

 
 
 
Sahih International

And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger

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“Verily Ibrahim was a Shi’a of Nuh”.

 

 

For the Nth time, Ibrahim [as] was on the religion that Nuh [as] followed, Islam.  Furthermore, Ibrahim [as] came to confirm and uphold the religion of Nuh [as].  The Qur'anic verse I am talking about, which you cannot understand, forbids us from chopping up the religion into sects and each party calling itself, "Shia".  You have done exactly that.  Ibrahim [as] only called people back to the religion of Nuh [as]; you have caused confusion in the deen of Allah [swt] and among Muslims by taking the wives [ra] and Companions [ra] of the Prophet [saw] for target practice.  As icing on the cake, you call yourself "Shia".

 

 

 

 

 

If you have this kind of thinking, you really should refrain from these kind of discussion for awhile. My silence is reasonable, because you did not answer to a simple question that requires me to understand your viewpoint of the particular viewpoint that the majority Sunnis believe.

 

 

Answer to a simple question?  This age-old technique of replying by questioning is not fun anymore.  If you have a point, say it.  If not, stop responding with questions trying to appear as though you have something up your sleeve when in reality you are as empty as a cup flipped upside down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sahih International

And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger

 

 

 

First of all, I am glad you brought up this verse in relation to Aisha [ra].  Since this passage includes the verse of purification, you must concede that purification, or infallibility as you claim for it to be, was extended to Aisha [ra] as well.  In doing so, you have also conceded that the wives [ra] of the Prophet [saw], too, are his Ahlul Bayt [ra].  Thank you for substantiating our stance.

 

As for the reason why you shared that verse - making it seem like Aisha [ra] disobeyed Allah [swt] by leaving her house - please read the following.

 

"The word qarna in the original is derived from qarar according to some lexicographers and from waqar according to others.  In the first sense, it will mean: `Settle down, stick firmly,' and in the second sense: 'Live peacefully, sit with dignity.'  In both the cases the verse means to impress that the woman's real sphere of activity is her home; she should carry out her functions within that sphere peacefully, and she should come out of the house only in case of a genuine need."

 

"According to Tafsir ibn Kathir, 'And stay in your houses' means stay in your houses and do not come out except for a purpose.  One of the purposes mentioned in Shari`ah is prayer in the masjid, so long as the conditions are fulfilled......"

 

http://muslimmatters.org/2010/06/30/homely-homemaking-homebodies-why-the-quran-commands-muslim-women-stay-in-your-homes/

Edited by muslim720

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First of all, I am glad you brought up this verse in relation to Aisha [ra].  Since this passage includes the verse of purification, you must concede that purification, or infallibility as you claim for it to be, was extended to Aisha [ra] as well.  In doing so, you have also conceded that the wives [ra] of the Prophet [saw], too, are his Ahlul Bayt [ra].  Thank you for substantiating our stance.

 

As for the reason why you shared that verse - making it seem like Aisha [ra] disobeyed Allah [swt] by leaving her house - please read the following.

 

"The word qarna in the original is derived from qarar according to some lexicographers and from waqar according to others.  In the first sense, it will mean: `Settle down, stick firmly,' and in the second sense: 'Live peacefully, sit with dignity.'  In both the cases the verse means to impress that the woman's real sphere of activity is her home; she should carry out her functions within that sphere peacefully, and she should come out of the house only in case of a genuine need."

 

"According to Tafsir ibn Kathir, 'And stay in your houses' means stay in your houses and do not come out except for a purpose.  One of the purposes mentioned in Shari`ah is prayer in the masjid, so long as the conditions are fulfilled......"

 

 

 

 

First of all shia sect believe that this verse has nothing to do with purification of prophet's wives.

 even if we include prophet's wives this verse doesnt mean they were purified though they disobey Allah's command so when she left her home for fighting or reconciliation she diobeyed this verse(even though reconciliation doesnt need army)

Third one is that even Aisha ra was regret about what she did and sunni scholars have discussion in thier booke that has she repented or not

forth one i ask you to ponder upon Tahrim chapter and look how Allah tell off Hafsah and Aisha

وَإِذْ أَسَرَّ النَّبِيُّ إِلَىٰ بَعْضِ أَزْوَاجِهِ حَدِيثًا فَلَمَّا نَبَّأَتْ بِهِ وَأَظْهَرَهُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ عَرَّفَ بَعْضَهُ وَأَعْرَضَ عَن بَعْضٍ ۖ فَلَمَّا نَبَّأَهَا بِهِ قَالَتْ مَنْ أَنبَأَكَ هَٰذَا ۖ قَالَ نَبَّأَنِيَ الْعَلِيمُ الْخَبِيرُ
Sahih International

And [remember] when the Prophet confided to one of his wives a statement; and when she informed [another] of it and Allah showed it to him, he made known part of it and ignored a part. And when he informed her about it, she said, "Who told you this?" He said, "I was informed by the Knowing, the Acquainted."

إِن تَتُوبَا إِلَى اللَّهِ فَقَدْ صَغَتْ قُلُوبُكُمَا ۖ وَإِن تَظَاهَرَا عَلَيْهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ مَوْلَاهُ وَجِبْرِيلُ وَصَالِحُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۖ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ ظَهِيرٌ
Sahih International
If you two [wives] repent to Allah , [it is best], for your hearts have deviated. But if you cooperate against him - then indeed Allah is his protector, and Gabriel and the righteous of the believers and the angels, moreover, are [his] assistants.

 

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1.  First of all shia sect believe that this verse has nothing to do with purification of prophet's wives.

 

2.  even if we include prophet's wives this verse doesnt mean they were purified though they disobey Allah's command

 

3.  Third one is that even Aisha ra was regret about what she did and sunni scholars have discussion in thier booke that has she repented or not

 

4.  forth one i ask you to ponder upon Tahrim chapter and look how Allah tell off Hafsah and Aisha

 

 

1.  Where do you get the authority, or acquire the nerves, from to interpret a passage of the Qur'an to fit your preconceived notions?  The passage starts with addressing the wives of the Prophet [saw] and remains as such.  Why do you exempt the wives [ra] of infallibility?  We do not believe that the wives [ra] of the Prophet [saw], or his Companions [ra], were infallible but why the double-standards on your end when you use the context of the same verse to prove the "infallibility", and exclusive identity, of Ahlul Bayt [ra]?

 

2.  When you say she disobeyed Allah [swt], you put your ignorance on display because the verse forbids leaving the house and displaying their beauty.  The verse is not a ruling for under-house arrest.  Read it properly one more time.  And you dare say she came out with an "army".  There were two groups; one group was in favor of qisas and the other was the camp of Imam Ali [ra].  The former, since Aisha [ra] came to convince Imam Ali [ra] to persecute those who killed Uthman [ra], naturally formed a group around Aisha [ra] (since they agreed on the matter, that is, there should be qisas).  Furthermore, being the Mother of Believers [ra], it only made sense for people to gather around her since she commanded and deserved such respect.

 

3.  Though I do not fully understand your statement, there is nothing wrong with repentance because Aisha's [ra] intentions were noble.  Here is what she acted upon:

 

"If two parties amongst the Believers fall into a quarrel, make ye peace between them.make peace between them with justice, and be fair: for Allah loves those who are fair (and just). The Believers are but a single Brotherhood: so make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers." (Quran, 49:9-10)

 

4.  I have discussed that verse too but so as to not get off topic and let you get off the hook, imagine if Aisha [ra] had left her house when Imam Ali [ra] was martyred.  Suppose she left her house and came to alert Imam Ali [ra] that his life was in danger.  Would you still accuse her of disobedience because she left her home?  

 

Lastly, imagine if after Imam Ali [ra] was martyred, Abu Bakr [ra] or Umar [ra] - I know they had passed away but this is a hypothetical situation - would have delayed the qisas of Imam Ali [ra].  What would you have said then?  I can only imagine!

Edited by muslim720

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Muslim720 playing satans advocate:

"I qoute:

Since Aisha came to convince Imam Ali [ra] to persecute those who killed Uthman [ra], naturally formed a group around Aisha [ra] (since they agreed on the matter, that is, there should qisas"

How pathetic, "formed a group" yea, with battalions, drawn swords and battle chants.

Typical umawi tactics. Following his predecessors footsteps in bending all logic, twisting apparent meanings so as to belittle the injustice done to imam ameer al monineen, the nafs of the Holy prophet saws .

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Furthermore, Ali a.s himself rebuked aishas claim to qisas, considering it void since :

1. She wasn't from Uthmans tribe

2. She was a woman

Sahih hadeeth state that whosoever splits away from the Jamaah by disobeying the imam of his/her time, and dies, dies the death of jahiliya.

Not only did she split away, she waged war on the Holy prophet.

You guys are in quicksand, claiming a fools standpoint with the stubbornness of an ass.

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1.  Where do you get the authority, or acquire the nerves, from to interpret a passage of the Qur'an to fit your preconceived notions?  The passage starts with addressing the wives of the Prophet [saw] and remains as such.  Why do you exempt the wives [ra] of infallibility?  We do not believe that the wives [ra] of the Prophet [saw], or his Companions [ra], were infallible but why the double-standards on your end when you use the context of the same verse to prove the "infallibility", and exclusive identity, of Ahlul Bayt [ra]?

 

In His Name

Thank you bro for your answer

at first if you ponder upon the verse you can come to the same conclusion so follow me.In the context when Allah swt talk about wives house talk about plural بیوت and repeat it frequently but when talk about purification bring singular word البیت so it shows Allah talk about one specific house and exclude the others and when we refer to narration we find out that prophet pbuh determine this specific house and it was Fatimah's house

and then shia believe this verse is not eternal gurantee for infalibility so even if prophet's wives included by this verse they can be excluded by their action

'

2.  When you say she disobeyed Allah [swt], you put your ignorance on display because the verse forbids leaving the house and displaying their beauty.  The verse is not a ruling for under-house arrest.  Read it properly one more time.  And you dare say she came out with an "army".  There were two groups; one group was in favor of qisas and the other was the camp of Imam Ali [ra].  The former, since Aisha [ra] came to convince Imam Ali [ra] to persecute those who killed Uthman [ra], naturally formed a group around Aisha [ra] (since they agreed on the matter, that is, there should be qisas).  Furthermore, being the Mother of Believers [ra], it only made sense for people to gather around her since she commanded and deserved such respect

 

In His Name

I didnt say she was under house arrest but if you think you find out that prophet's wives differ with other women what do you think if you hear one ordinary women command a war? if you reply she didnt go for war i will answer why she didnt come back when she cant convince Amir-al-momenin?

and have you ever thought why this war  was named Jamal? there were horses why they didnt call it horse war.the answer is clear due to Aishah drive jamal

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1.  Muslim720 playing satans advocate:

2.  How pathetic, "formed a group" yea, with battalions, drawn swords and battle chants.

3.  Typical umawi tactics. Following his predecessors footsteps in bending all logic, twisting apparent meanings so as to belittle the injustice done to imam ameer al monineen, the nafs of the Holy prophet saws .

 

 

1.  Moving on.

 

2.  Whatever you say.  At the end of the day, you are speaking out of your whims while I have provided evidence for my stance.

 

3.  What bigger belittlement of, and injustice done to, Imam Ali [ra] can there be than the one which says that he stood meekly while his wife was being attacked?  Oh yeah, he had to show restraint.  You want to talk logic?  

 

 

 

 

 

LOLOLOL

what do u say about the battle of Jamal? Aisha fought YOUR "rightly guided caliph" isn't that kufr my friend?

 

 

Aren't we talking about that?  Have you been reading our discussion or "Peshawar Nights"?

 

 

 

 

 

Furthermore, Ali a.s himself rebuked aishas claim to qisas, considering it void since :

1. She wasn't from Uthmans tribe

2. She was a woman

3.  Sahih hadeeth state that whosoever splits away from the Jamaah by disobeying the imam of his/her time, and dies, dies the death of jahiliya.

 

4.  You guys are in quicksand, claiming a fools standpoint with the stubbornness of an ass.

 

 

1.  Aisha [ra] could not have demanded for justice because she was not from Uthman's [ra] tribe?  What sort of logic is this?

 

2.  Oh, a woman - that too, the Mother of Believers - cannot demand, or stand for, justice?  Giving Islam a misogynistic twist to prove your own point.  If being a woman disqualifies you from standing up for what is right then what do you have to say regarding the alleged khutbah Fadak?

 

3.  Funny that you should say that because while it is alleged that Aisha [ra] "waged war" on the Caliph, what is brushed aside is that the previous Caliph had just been murdered and people demanded justice.

 

4.  At least we do not narrate from donkeys.

Edited by muslim720

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Muslim720 playing satans advocate:

 

 

I like to condemn this statement. He is contributing in this thread as per his best knowledge whatever he have. We need not to put this kind of statement on someone. This will not become healthy. All are writing whatever they heard/studied and on that bases we are always discussing on threads.

 

Leave Satan for others :lol:  American policy lovers are enough for Satan.

 

I just remember a joke i heard.

 

One day Satan was passing by a jungle and he saw a Man sitting on a branch and cutting the branch from Stem side while sitting on Outer side. Satan saw him and laguhed how Moron this man is, then suddenly he feel sad. He moved towards man and said to man, Please sit on that side and cut from outer side this will save me from your curse , Other wise you will curse me when your bones will get broked.

 

:lol:

Edited by alirex

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