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zeinab94

Is Chess Haram?!

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Asalamu Alaikum,

Does anyone have any Hadiths on y chess is Haram?

I'v heard that it's Haram because the enemies #BULB planned how they would kill Imam Hussain AS on a chess board,

I'm going to email a few Marjahs that I listen to: Sistani, Fadlallah, Shirazi.. And I'll also be emailing Khamenei because many people like him,

But I wanted to see if anyone knows any Hadiths first,

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Sistani says it is haram based on precaution, but if I recall correctly Khamenei doesn't (actually in Iran they play chess competitively). In the early times of Islam it was played with another mindset related to polytheism.

Curiously enough, according to some scholars I have talked with about chess, I was told that the mathematical construction of chess proved the existence of God (mathematically).

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Sistani says it is haram based on precaution, but if I recall correctly Khamenei doesn't (actually in Iran they play chess competitively). In the early times of Islam it was played with another mindset related to polytheism.

Curiously enough, according to some scholars I have talked with about chess, I was told that the mathematical construction of chess proved the existence of God (mathematically).

Interesting.. Have u ever heard of the enemies [edited out] planning on how they will kill Imam Hussain AS on it?

So does that mean Khamenei allows playing games? I thought they all agree that we can't.

 

 

 

 

 

[Note from moderator: Please refrain from inappropriate language].

Edited by Jaafar Al-Shibli
Inappropriate language.

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The hadiths in the link that I gave may show chess to be haram, the jurists nowadays, however differ.

 

I think it is a little to stringy bro, chess is not really a game of chance but a game of intelligence ? I guess if we are to take that philosophy then all computer games today are haram  because they all fit in the concept of chess.....

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I think it is a little to stringy bro, chess is not really a game of chance but a game of intelligence ? I guess if we are to take that philosophy then all computer games today are haram  because they all fit in the concept of chess.....

 

We don't do analogies in fiqh bro. Everything is mubah unless there's proof saying otherwise.

Edited by al-Ibrahimi

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Most computers games are based on RNG to some extent. Maybe not games like Age of Empires or Counter Strike, but it does when it comes to Hearthstone for example.

Chess is not based on chance at all. There are specific norms. However, there are so many possible movements to achieve victory that no human mind can know the exact movement after each movement. Using this approach, chess essentially isn't different than three-in-a-row.

Edit: I was wrong regarding AOE, the map in which you play is basically a script that depending on the seed's number created a map or another.

Edited by Bakir

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81- بَابُ تَحْرِيمِ اللَّعْبِ بِالشِّطْرَنْجِ وَ نَحْوِهِ‏

15186-[1] دَعَائِمُ الْإِسْلَامِ، عَنْ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ ع: أَنَّهُ سُئِلَ عَنْ قَوْلِ اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَ جَلَ‏ فَاجْتَنِبُوا الرِّجْسَ مِنَ الْأَوْثانِ وَ اجْتَنِبُوا قَوْلَ الزُّورِ[2] فَقَالَ الرِّجْسُ مِنَ الْأَوْثَانِ الشِّطْرَنْجُ وَ قَوْلُ الزُّورِ الْغِنَاءُ.

15187-[3] زَيْدٌ النَّرْسِيُّ فِي أَصْلِهِ، عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع أَنَّهُ قَالَ فِي حَدِيثٍ: وَ أَمَّا الشِّطْرَنْجُ فَهُوَ الَّذِي قَالَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَ‏ فَاجْتَنِبُوا الرِّجْسَ مِنَ الْأَوْثانِ‏[4] الْخَبَرَ.

15188-[5] الصَّدُوقُ فِي الْمُقْنِعِ، وَ فِي التَّفْسِيرِ، عَنِ الصَّادِقِ ع:[6] أَنَّ الرِّجْسَ مِنَ الْأَوْثَانِ الشِّطْرَنْجُ.

15189-[7] جَامِعُ الْأَخْبَارِ، رَوَى عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مَسْعُودٍ: أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ص مَرَّ بِقَوْمٍ يَلْعَبُونَ بِالشِّطْرَنْجِ قَالَ مَا هَذِهِ التَّمَاثِيلُ الَّتِي أَنْتُمْ لَهَا عَاكِفُونَ:.

عَوَالِي اللآَّلِي، عَنْهُ ص: مِثْلَهُ.[8]
15190-[1] الْقُطْبُ الرَّاوَنْدِيُّ فِي لُبِّ اللُّبَابِ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ ص أَنَّهُ قَالَ: مَلْعُونٌ مَنْ جَرَّ اللَّعْبَ بالإِسْتِرِيقِ يَعْنِي الشِّطْرَنْجَ.

15191-[2] الشَّيْخُ أَبُو الْفُتُوحِ فِي تَفْسِيرِهِ، عَنْ أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع: أَنَّهُ مَرَّ بِقَوْمٍ يَلْعَبُونَ بِالشِّطْرَنْجِ فَقَالَ مَا هَذِهِ التَّمَاثِيلُ الَّتِي أَنْتُمْ لَهَا عَاكِفُونَ وَ أَخَذَ قَدْراً مِنَ التُّرَابِ وَ طَرَحَهُ فِيهِ قَالَ الشَّيْخُ يَقُولُ الَّذِينَ يَتَعَاطَوْنَ لَعْبَ الشِّطْرَنْجِ إِنَّهُ كُلَّمَا بَسَطَ نَطْعَهُ وَجَدَ فِيهِ شَيْئاً مِنَ التُّرَابِ.

[3] 82- بَابُ تَحْرِيمِ الْحُضُورِ عِنْدَ اللَّاعِبِ بِالشِّطْرَنْجِ وَ السَّلَامِ عَلَيْهِ وَ بَيْعِهِ وَ شِرَائِهِ وَ أَكْلِ ثَمَنِهِ وَ اتِّخَاذِهِ وَ النَّظَرِ إِلَيْهِ وَ تَقْلِيبِهِ وَ أَنَّ مَنْ قَلَّبَهُ يَنْبَغِي أَنْ يَغْسِلَ يَدَهُ قَبْلَ أَنْ يُصَلِّيَ‏

15192-[4] الشَّيْخُ أَبُو الْفُتُوحِ فِي تَفْسِيرِهِ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ ص أَنَّهُ قَالَ: مَلْعُونٌ مَنْ لَعِبَ بِالْإِسْتِرِيقِ يَعْنِي الشِّطْرَنْجَ وَ النَّاظِرُ إِلَيْهِ كَآكِلِ لَحْمِ الْخِنْزِيرِ:.

جَامِعُ الْأَخْبَارِ، عَنْهُ ص: مِثْلَهُ‏[5]

وَ فِي خَبَرٍ آخَرَ: النَّاظِرُ إِلَيْهِ كَالنَّاظِرِ إِلَى فَرْجِ أُمِّهِ.

[6]

15193-[7] فِقْهُ الرِّضَا، ع: فَأَمَّا الشِّطْرَنْجُ‏ فَإِنَّ اتِّخَاذَهَا كُفْرٌ بِاللَّهِ الْعَظِيمِ وَ اللَّعْبُ بِهَا شِرْكٌ وَ تَقَلُّبُهَا كَبِيرَةٌ مُوبِقَةٌ وَ السَّلَامُ عَلَى اللَّاهِي بِهَا كُفْرٌ وَ مُقَلِّبُهَا كَالنَّاظِرِ إِلَى فَرْجِ‏ أُمِّهِ.

15194-[8] عَوَالِي اللآَّلِي، قَالَ الصَّادِقُ ع: اللَّاعِبُ بِالشِّطْرَنْج‏ مُشْرِكٌ وَ السَّلَامُ عَلَى اللَّاهِي بِهِ مَعْصِيَةٌ.

Edited by Mirkhalil

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Brother , computer games in essence are games of chance. 

 

Brother Ibrahimi want to say .. We cant put something Haraam or Halaal on basis on our own assumptions. Fuqah are there and its there duty , unless you yourself become Mujtahid.

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I don't think chess is Haram because my ex-saudi roommate took his chess out and ask me to play with him and he is from the most wahabi sect of all time.

 

So if your friend drank alcohol it would be halal? This type of thinking is dangerous. We follow our marajas.

 

Question: Some people play with gambling instruments other than chess and backgammon for enjoyment and without placing a bet.

Answer: [it is prohibited to play with all that is considered a gambling instrument even without placing a bet].
 
Question: What is the ruling on playing chess by using the customary pieces? Is the ruling any different in the case where the game is played by computer which employs symbols and shapes instead of the customary pieces?
Answer: Playing it (chess) is absolutely forbidden even without placing a bet. And there is no difference in this, whether it is (played) with customary pieces or by computer.
 
Question: (Is it permissible) to play chess and backgammon without placing a bet?
Answer: It is not permissible to play them.
 
Question: What is the ruling on playing chess using the commonly known equipment? Is the ruling different if the play is conducted on a computer, using symbols?
Answer: Playing chess is haraam mutlaqan (absolutely or under any circumstances), even though betting is not used. There is no difference between the two methods of play.
 
Edited by Ethics

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So if your friend drank alcohol it would be halal? This type of thinking is dangerous. We follow our marajas.

Question: Some people play with gambling instruments other than chess and backgammon for enjoyment and without placing a bet.

Answer: [it is prohibited to play with all that is considered a gambling instrument even without placing a bet].

Question: What is the ruling on playing chess by using the customary pieces? Is the ruling any different in the case where the game is played by computer which employs symbols and shapes instead of the customary pieces?

Answer: Playing it (chess) is absolutely forbidden even without placing a bet. And there is no difference in this, whether it is (played) with customary pieces or by computer.

Question: (Is it permissible) to play chess and backgammon without placing a bet?

Answer: It is not permissible to play them.

Question: What is the ruling on playing chess using the commonly known equipment? Is the ruling different if the play is conducted on a computer, using symbols?

Answer: Playing chess is haraam mutlaqan (absolutely or under any circumstances), even though betting is not used. There is no difference between the two methods of play.

http://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01161/

How does alcohol relate to chess?

And when has chess been considered 'gambling' in todays modern society? Chess is Haram? Since when? If you want to relate chess to gambling because sistani said so, then I will question if sistani has now become an infalliable organization/person? Is sistani now becoming glorified like Bukhari? I certainly hope not. This is not to say sistani doesn't have any good stuff. I respect sayyid people, but not enough to glorify them because if that were the case, I'd be on my knees for some ISIS members who are indeed Sayyid.

Seriously, think about chess one minute and really ask yourself how that is even considered gambling? When have people ever played chess using money? LOL

You want to know something? If chess is gambling, then you minus well rule out video games, school, and basically your life since everything in this dunya is random, thus to be considered gambling, then therefore; this is self explanatory. For example, today I will hope to go outside and not get shot by someone.

You want to know something even more mind blowing? There are Hadiths that say the Prophet use to allow for Alcohol during the time he lived. So I became curious as to why that was allowed and I came across this site: http://www.free-minds.org/alcohol-forbidden-islam which say alcohol is not Haram and tells us clearly why.

"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say: “In them is great harm, and a BENEFIT for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.” And they ask you how much are they to give, Say: “The excess.” It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (2:219)

So without using Hadiths, one can intepret this gambling/alcohol as being not haram nor halal. But you're going to tell me this is nonsense and it has been many generations that alcohol/gambling has been haram. Well, I hate to say it but I don't lie nor do I seek advantage from this. I personally abstain from alcohol.

Edited by narcotic_ice

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Where is it mentioned that games of chance are haram?

 

Brother al-ibrahimi I love you bro..

 

It is mentioned in the link you provided....

 

 

Brother Ibrahimi want to say .. We cant put something Haraam or Halaal on basis on our own assumptions. Fuqah are there and its there duty , unless you yourself become Mujtahid.

 

Brother I agree 10000000%

 

That is what I was trying to explain to him lol

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How does alcohol relate to chess?

And when has chess been considered 'gambling' in todays modern society? Chess is Haram? Since when? If you want to relate chess to gambling because sistani said so, then I will question if sistani has now become an infalliable organization/person? Is sistani now becoming glorified like Bukhari? I certainly hope not. This is not to say sistani doesn't have any good stuff. I respect sayyid people, but not enough to glorify them because if that were the case, I'd be on my knees for some ISIS members who are indeed Sayyid.

Seriously, think about chess one minute and really ask yourself how that is even considered gambling? When have people ever played chess using money? LOL

You want to know something? If chess is gambling, then you minus well rule out video games, school, and basically your life since everything in this dunya is random, thus to be considered gambling, then therefore; this is self explanatory. For example, today I will hope to go outside and not get shot by someone.

You want to know something even more mind blowing? There are Hadiths that say the Prophet use to allow for Alcohol during the time he lived. So I became curious as to why that was allowed and I came across this site: http://www.free-minds.org/alcohol-forbidden-islam which say alcohol is not Haram and tells us clearly why.

"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say: “In them is great harm, and a BENEFIT for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.” And they ask you how much are they to give, Say: “The excess.” It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (2:219)

So without using Hadiths, one can intepret this gambling/alcohol as being not haram nor halal. But you're going to tell me this is nonsense and it has been many generations that alcohol/gambling has been haram. Well, I hate to say it but I don't lie nor do I seek advantage from this. I personally abstain from alcohol.

 

What are you even talking about? When did I relate alcohol to chess? Clearly your not even a shia, so dont try to fool anyone. For someone to insult Ayatollah Sistani h.a like that, is absurd! And you praise Daesh, shame on you! You claim they are decedents of Muhammad A.S? They are descendents of khawarij and banu ummaiyah. I was comparing how you claimed just because a wahabi did something it makes it okay to do in islam. I call that irrationality. For someone who claims to be a shia and accepts sunni hadiths and believes anti-islam propaganda, you sure seem like a muslim... Then you claim, the quran allows alcohol, authobillah? My God, good that you have shown your true colors on this site.

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So if your friend drank alcohol it would be halal? This type of thinking is dangerous. We follow our marajas.

 

Question: Some people play with gambling instruments other than chess and backgammon for enjoyment and without placing a bet.

Answer: [it is prohibited to play with all that is considered a gambling instrument even without placing a bet].
 
Question: What is the ruling on playing chess by using the customary pieces? Is the ruling any different in the case where the game is played by computer which employs symbols and shapes instead of the customary pieces?
Answer: Playing it (chess) is absolutely forbidden even without placing a bet. And there is no difference in this, whether it is (played) with customary pieces or by computer.
 
Question: (Is it permissible) to play chess and backgammon without placing a bet?
Answer: It is not permissible to play them.
 
Question: What is the ruling on playing chess using the commonly known equipment? Is the ruling different if the play is conducted on a computer, using symbols?
Answer: Playing chess is haraam mutlaqan (absolutely or under any circumstances), even though betting is not used. There is no difference between the two methods of play.
 

 

 

Can you do me a favor and ask why it is haram for Sayed Sistani? It would be great to find out why and accepting or challenging the reason if there is a challenge opposed to just accepting it without question.

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What are you even talking about? When did I relate alcohol to chess? Clearly your not even a shia, so dont try to fool anyone. For someone to insult Ayatollah Sistani h.a like that, is absurd! And you praise Daesh, shame on you! You claim they are decedents of Muhammad A.S? They are descendents of khawarij and banu ummaiyah. I was comparing how you claimed just because a wahabi did something it makes it okay to do in islam. I call that irrationality. For someone who claims to be a shia and accepts sunni hadiths and believes anti-islam propaganda, you sure seem like a muslim... Then you claim, the quran allows alcohol, authobillah? My God, good that you have shown your true colors on this site.

1) I don't support Daesh; I said IF that were the case...

2) Where is your proof that I believe in Sunni Hadiths and anti-islam propaganda?

3) Your definition of "insult" is your own because there are some Shias (not just myself) who do not abide to Sistani.

4) You probably didn't even hesitate to not go to that site that explains why a lot of Muslims these days are interpretating the Quran so differently in regard to that one verse. Because I never knew "forbidden" and "avoid" were the same words.

5) Daesh members do indeed include some Sayyids, this is a fact whether I'm shia, sunni, non-muslim, muslim, quranist or whatever telling you this. Would you rather I lie and tell you there is not? This is NOT to say I support ISIS because I clearly DO NOT.

6) I am a Shia, whether you want to believe it or not.

7) I only mentioned that wahabi because I wanted to express that chess is OK in Islam.

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Can you do me a favor and ask why it is haram for Sayed Sistani? It would be great to find out why and accepting or challenging the reason if there is a challenge opposed to just accepting it without question.

 

Maybe these are the reasons? You can email him yourself, why should I? You wanna know, you ask.

 

http://www.al-islam.org/philosophy-islamic-laws-ayatullah-al-uzma-shaykh-nasir-makarim-shirazi-ayatullah-jafar-subhani-82

 

Fazl Ibn Shazān reports from Imam ‘Ali ar-Riďa (a.s.), “At the time the blessed head of Husain Ibn ‘Ali (a.s.) was carried into Shām, Yazid (l.a.) started to dine and drink barley wine (similar to modern day ‘beer’) with his associates. After the meal, Yazid (l.a.) ordered the blessed head to be kept in a salver and placed at the foot of his throne. A chessboard was spread out and the accursed Yazid sat down to play chess. During the game, he ridiculed Imam Husain (a.s.), his father (a.s.) and grandfather (S). Whenever he won a game, he used to take hold of the barley wine and drink Three goblets. Then he used to pour the remaining wine in the salver upon the head of Imam Husain (a.s.).”

Hazrat Imam ‘Ali ar-Riďa (a.s.) then continues, “Whoever is our Shia must abstain from barley wine and chess. One who sees barley wine or chess must remember Imam Husain (a.s.) and invoke curse upon Yazid and the progeny of Yazid. If a Shia does this, Allah the Almighty will forgive all his sins even if they are more numerous than the stars.”5

 

The prayers of chess-players are not valid till they wash their hands after the game. And to watch a game of chess is like looking at the genitals of one’s own mother.”3

 

Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.) on being inquired concerning chess replied:

“Leave the preoccupations of the fire-worshippers to them.”

 

Hazrat Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (a.s.) has said:

“All kinds of games of betting are gambling and the sale, the purchase and the use of all the tools of gambling are Harām. It is only an act that Shaitan instigates you to do.”4

 

Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.), is reported to have told Abu Basir:

“It is Harām to sell chess. It is Harām to spend the income of this sale. To keep chess (board and pieces) in ones possession is tantamount to kufr (disbelief). To play chess is equal to ascribing partners to Allah. It is a sin even to salute one who plays chess. One who touches it in order to play it, it is, as if he has contaminated his hands by touching pork.”1

 

The same tradition is recorded in the book Man La Yahzarul Faqih with the addition inter alia that:

“To teach chess to others is also a kind of destructive sin.”

 

http://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-1-ayatullah-sayyid-abd-al-husayn-dastghayb-shirazi/fourteenth-greater-sin

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Interesting debate,

I have not emailed any Marjah yet,

I will be doing that now, and if it is Haram, then the reason behind it,

If anyone wants another Marjah opinion other than the ones I mentioned above, then let me know,

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Like to add something for the Reason finders.

 

Reason behind something is good , but not always. If you go on Hajj there are many things which we need to follow as it is, and if you ask any one they have one simple answer bcoz Allah want to do like it is. Same way Why fast in Ramazan only all 30 days why not make 10 in Ramzan , 10 in Rajab and 10 in any other month ? The reason is simple .. Bcoz its Rule from Allah.

 

May be they have reason for chess, but every time searching for reason can leads you to a point where .. may be possible you can get deviated from path.

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Sounds like a weird reason, they used a sword to kill imam hussein and probably used a pen to write the letter about the news, we havent made those haram.

 

Besides the countless hadiths making chess haram, that would be one reason but not the only reason why it is haram.

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Besides the countless hadiths making chess haram, that would be one reason but not the only reason why it is haram.

 

I doubt that is one of the reasons at all, unless someone can prove otherwise. The reason given just doesn't make any sense. 

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6. )
"They ask you about intoxicants and games of chances. Say: in both of them there isa great sin.."
7

 

 

i.e poker, chess and similar ones. The reason why ulema dispute over chess is because they believe the game today is different from the game in the past.

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No it is not an interesting debate, deeming chess haram is laughable, and to do it since chess can or was used as a gambling instrument is even more absurd than some of the reasons my mother provides for forbidding showers and khichri on Tuesdays.

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(salam)

 

I doubt that is one of the reasons at all, unless someone can prove otherwise. The reason given just doesn't make any sense. 

 

Maybe an allusion to it:

 

Abdul Wahid Muhammad ibn Ubdoos al-Neishaboori al-Attar - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Ali ibn Muhammad ibn Qutayba, on the authority of Al-Fadhl ibn Shadhan that he had heard Al-Reza (s) say, “When they took the decapitated head of Al-Hussein ibn Ali (s) to Sham , Yazid - may God damn him - ordered that it be put somewhere and the tablecloth be spread. He - may God damn him - and his companions started to eat and drink beer. When they finished eating, he ordered that they put the head in a tub in front of his couch and place the chess board over the tub. Yazid - may God damn him - started playing chess with his companions while he was swearing at Al-Hussein (s), his forefathers and grandfather (s) and making fun of them. Whenever he won the game, he drank three mugs of beer. Then he poured down the little bit of leftover beer on the ground right next to the tub in which Al-Hussein’s (s) head was placed. The Honorable the Exalted God will eliminate the sins of whoever sees beer or a chess board and remembers Al-Hussein (s), and damns Yazid and the Aal Ziyad, even if the number of his sins are as many as there are stars in the sky.

 

Source: Uyun al-Akhbar

 

Wassalam

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain

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Bismillah

 

The above narration in Uyun al-Akhbaar wouldn't back the reasoning given by the sister in the original post. She seemed to be linking the impermissibility to pre-Karbala (i.e. planning to kill Imam Hussain on a chess board), the narration quoted however, is most definitely speaking about happenings after the killing had taken place. According to jurisprudential methods, this narration does not have the strength to prove ruling regarding chess, and is only reporting what took place. 

 

There are other narrations that clearly speak about chess being prohibited, some linking it back to gambling whilst others seem to make it impermissible in any situation - hence why many scholars practice precaution and do not try to understand the narrations by interpreting them against there apparent meanings. 

 

I'm not sure if the members have looked through all the narrations regarding chess, but even though i believe the game has changed considerably in our day and age, and for the most part is played without any money involved, the narrations were so vehemently against the game that i was put off playing completely, regardless of the verdict given by my marja'.

 

If you look at the narrations related to halal and haram collected in our hadith books, try and compare the language used to prohibit (or make makruh) some of the other things that seem trivial or ordinary (not obvious sins like drinking, fornication etc), it is really interesting to see the language used in this particular case - and in the amount of cases. 

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Salam brothers and sisters,

I got a reply from 2 Marjahs, Fadlallah and Khamenei,

My question was:

Asalamu Alaikum,

Is Chess Haram?

If it is Haram, what is the reason making it Haram?

Is it true that the enemies of the Ahlulbayt AS planned how they will kill Imam Hussain AS on a chess board?

Khamenei reply:

Istifta’ no.: 525169

Bismihi Ta`ala

Salamun `alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

If the mukallaf recognizes that nowadays chess is no longer a gambling instrument, there is no problem in playing it without betting.

With apologies this site is reserved specifically for the sake of answering questions pertaining to the practical laws of Islam.

With prayers for your success

Fadlallah reply:

(It's in arabic, not sure if it will post the same way I pasted it, but either way I'm getting a friend to translate it for me in English)

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

بإسمه تعالى:

ج) ليست حراماً، إن كان اللعب للتسلية وليس بمراهنة مالية، ولكن الأحوط استحباباً اجتنابها مطلقاً.

ج2) ليس صحيحاً.

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

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