Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Is It Permissible To Learn Magic Tricks?

Rate this topic


Mithrandir

Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

Salam.

I've always wanted to learn magic--no, not black magic. You know, nifty things like pulling a rabbit out of my hat, fun tricks with cards and all the fun stuff travelling magicians cook up.

I've had maulanas tell me it's haram because I'm tricking people into believing something that isn't real. But everybody already knows that these are just mere tricks, no supernatural involved.

Is learning magic permissible?

Thanks!

Edited by Mithrandir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I think I should consult my marja. Although, it would be interesting to know what the legal definition of "magic" is in Islamic jurisprudence.

Edited by Mithrandir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

Mithrandir

 

Reformulate the question to your marja': Is it permissible to learn how to cause entertainment and wonder in people as to the mechanism by which something is achieved, by using activities which operate on mechanical operations and or optical illusions?

Ask for the hadith as well.

This might just win you your bag of tricks.

 

(wasalam)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

(salam)

Mithrandir

Reformulate the question to your marja': Is it permissible to learn how to cause entertainment and wonder in people as to the mechanism by which something is achieved, by using activities which operate on mechanical operations and or optical illusions?

Ask for the hadith as well.

This might just win you your bag of tricks.

(wasalam)

If you were standing in front of me right now, I would give you a kiss...or a cookie. Whichever you fancy more.

To the office of Sayyid Khamenei!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sayyed Khamenei says -

Q1222: What is the view on teaching, learning, and watching conjuring? And what is the view on performing (to an audience) illusionary tricks which depend on quick handwork?

A: It is ḥarām to learn or teach conjuring. As for entertainment accompanied by sleight of hand and quick movement that are not considered conjuring, there is no harm in them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

It's a form of play that all good grandfathers do to entertain their grandchildren.  It isn't magic, it is sleight of hand tricks.  

 

Actual magic, if it existed, would be haram.  "Magic tricks" are not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Sayyed Khamenei says -

Q1222: What is the view on teaching, learning, and watching conjuring? And what is the view on performing (to an audience) illusionary tricks which depend on quick handwork?

A: It is ḥarām to learn or teach conjuring. As for entertainment accompanied by sleight of hand and quick movement that are not considered conjuring, there is no harm in them.

Thanks! Now I can get to work xD

 

It's a form of play that all good grandfathers do to entertain their grandchildren.  It isn't magic, it is sleight of hand tricks.  

 

Actual magic, if it existed, would be haram.  "Magic tricks" are not.

That's my point exactly. It's not like I'm summoning djinns to do my bidding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

Even on Ayatollah Seestani's fatwa, I doubt that when he said that magic in all its forms is forbidden, he was referring to sleight of hand. The magic that is forbidden in the Qur'an is actual magic where I say a spell or do some mumbo jumbo or whatever and the result is something that is considered impossible. Sleight of hand is not magic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest, I am in the opinion that's haram to learn magic as a general rule, but if you become one of God's elite friends, you may learn this from other then evil forces but rather from the Imam, while you are pure and would only use it for good. 

 

What happened with the two Angels was that black magic was so common, they came to teach others from a pure source about ways to combat black magic and they taught the poison to teach the cure. But this was a huge trial, and it's better to stay away from it, but obviously learning it from Angels or Imams or Prophets is not forbidden, but learning it from dark forces while you are not pure is what is forbidden.

 

I believe there is a hadith about a person who knew magic, and Imam told him to "untie, but don't tie", so to undue magic instead of using magic on someone not afflicted with it.

 

I don't think it's ok to learn it except from Imam Mahdi in this day and age, but those who learned it from other then Divine source and then repented are allowed to use it to undue black magic, but not for other then undoing it.

 

 

Salam

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

Some people learn magic to undue black magic without involving into haraam previously. I never saw magic happen nor djinns nor whatever of that stuff and don't care about them to be honest, but if someone does know about magic and can help people who are actually afflicted by it, then it would make sense. To undue magic, as far as I know it is a mix of concentration and numerical stuff I can't understand. It is supposedly also very exhausting, not anyone bears it. Meanwhile black magic, as I have heard so far, requires some intrinsecally haraam acts to be performed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Just googled black magic and it looks creepy. Some thing you would see gothics doing or from that movie "the bride of chucky."

It's tempting. I've been researching  Wicca and Witchcraft for the past week and all these spells popped up. I have no doubt that the spells are real. Magick is tempting because it's so accessible and easy and the fact that the underlying principal governing magick is a simple one. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to cast a spell myself...

 

Dangerous stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

(salam)

 

In the 1980s, l saw an interview with "Blackstone", one of the most famous Illusionists.

 

He said, that for himself and several others, the descriptive "magician" is morally offensive because this denotes "magi" and "witchcraft' and "spiritism".

So they all preferred the title "Illusionist" because that is what they did.

 

He said, approximately, that illusions are all mechanics and vision(eye optics, not somehow visionary).

 

I tried it decades ago but my hands are not capable of doing it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Sorcery might be punishable by death. Not sure, I remember reading it.

Yes, you're right. It's a serious offense. I think I remember hearing it was the second greatest sin after Shirk.

 

However, not all scholars view it as punishable by death...but a good portion of them are pro-death.

(salam)

 

In the 1980s, l saw an interview with "Blackstone", one of the most famous Illusionists.

 

He said, that for himself and several others, the descriptive "magician" is morally offensive because this denotes "magi" and "witchcraft' and "spiritism".

So they all preferred the title "Illusionist" because that is what they did.

 

He said, approximately, that illusions are all mechanics and vision(eye optics, not somehow visionary).

 

I tried it decades ago but my hands are not capable of doing it.

Blackstone is a legend....'nuff said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

(salam)

The Thirty-First Greater Sin: Sorcery
 
The thirty-first sin that is clearly stated to be a Greater Sin is sorcery. A tradition from the Holy Prophet (S) has been recorded in Wasa’il ul-Shia in which the Prophet (S) has mentioned that Magic is a Greater Sin.
 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

(wasalam)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


وَ عَنْ حَبِيبِ بْنِ الْحَسَنِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْحَمِيدِ الْعَطَّارِ عَنْ بَشَّارٍ عَنْ زَيْدٍ الشَّحَّامِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ السَّاحِرُ يُضْرَبُ بِالسَّيْفِ ضَرْبَةً وَاحِدَةً عَلَى رَأْسِهِ
From Zayd al-Shahhaam from Abee `Abd Allaah  (as) said: "The Magician is to be struck with a sword, with one strike, on his head"
Source:
al-Kulayni, al-Kaafi, vol. 7, pg. 260, hadeeth # 2
 
 
- Scroll to Nader Zaveri's comment.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Sorcery might be punishable by death. Not sure, I remember reading it.

Tbh I don't think any of this magic/sorcery stuff is real. Any Hadith relating to magic is probably fake. Cause then I would have to start believing in Harry Potter.

It's tempting. I've been researching Wicca and Witchcraft for the past week and all these spells popped up. I have no doubt that the spells are real. Magick is tempting because it's so accessible and easy and the fact that the underlying principal governing magick is a simple one. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to cast a spell myself...

Dangerous stuff.

Lol don't believe in this magic stuff. The probability of it is highly fake. If it was real, then the Prophet Moses would have not made the Pharoah's magicians look bad for their deceiving magic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tbh I don't think any of this magic/sorcery stuff is real. Any Hadith relating to magic is probably fake. Cause then I would have to start believing in Harry Potter.

 

There is a dispute among the Jurists whether it is real or fake. The ones which happen in the Arab world are ones in which the person wants to summon demons or put someone under a spell.

 

Whether it's real or fake, it is haram. 

 

In the Holy Qur'an, the word magic was used -

 

"Suleiman (Solomon) did not disbelieve, but the devils disbelieved teaching men magic" (2:102)

 

"And when there came to them a Messenger from Allah confirming what was with them, a party of those who were given the scripture threw away the book of Allah behind their backs as if they did not know. And they followed what the devils gave out falsely of magic of the reign of Solomon; for Solomon did not disbelieve but the devils disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels Harut and Marut, but neither of these two (angles) taught anyone (such things) until they had said: we are only for trial, so don't disbelieve. And from them (magicians) people learn that through which they would cause separation between a person and his spouse, but they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's leave; and they learn that which harms them rather than profits them. And indeed they knew that its practitioner would have no share in the Hereafter. And how bad indeed was that for which they sold their own selves if they but knew" (2:101-2).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Tbh I don't think any of this magic/sorcery stuff is real. Any Hadith relating to magic is probably fake. Cause then I would have to start believing in Harry Potter.

Lol don't believe in this magic stuff. The probability of it is highly fake. If it was real, then the Prophet Moses would have not made the Pharoah's magicians look bad for their deceiving magic.

A good portion of magicians who claim to practice magick are in all likelihood, fakes. But that doesn't mean magick itself is unreal. That would be throwing out the baby with the bath water. Magick deals with the unseen realm, and modern rationalism doesn't believe in the unseen realm. That doesn't mean the unseen realm doesn't exist. Moreover, we have been advised by the Holy Prophet(s) to recite Surah Falaq everynight before going to sleep.

 

"I see refuge from the women who blow on the knots."

 

"Blowing on the knots" is the classical Arabic term used to denote witchcraft. Whether you think the hadiths discussing magick are fake or not is irrelevant to whether magick itself is real or not .But let's assume they are for the moment. It still isn't enough to disprove the theory that all magick is a sham. The fact of the matter remains that the Qur'an discusses magick, which implies that magick has a potent reality. Moreover, the Qur'an only speaks of things that are of the utmost importance. Therefore, God advising us to take refuge from the effects of witchcraft is more than enough evidence for us to know that magick has a very real effect not only on the spiritual state of the one practicing it, but also on the one being targeted.

 

To me, the reality of magick--not magic--is as clear as day.

 

I would recommend a particular book, but this is a public forum and that kind of information is best avoided.

 

I hope this helps to answer some of the doubts you expressed.

 

Take care.

Mithrandir.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

،السلام عليكم

 

When reading about some of our earlier scholars, I learned of Ibn Idris al-Hilli who was a great Shia jurist and who wrote Kitab as-Sara'ir. From what I have read, it says in it he described magic as not being real and having no effect. I do not have the book nor do I think my Arabic would be strong enough to read it yet, so I do not know his methodology in coming to that conclusion. 

Edited by estoc
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

There is a dispute among the Jurists whether it is real or fake. The ones which happen in the Arab world are ones in which the person wants to summon demons or put someone under a spell.

Whether it's real or fake, it is haram.

In the Holy Qur'an, the word magic was used -

"Suleiman (Solomon) did not disbelieve, but the devils disbelieved teaching men magic" (2:102)

"And when there came to them a Messenger from Allah confirming what was with them, a party of those who were given the scripture threw away the book of Allah behind their backs as if they did not know. And they followed what the devils gave out falsely of magic of the reign of Solomon; for Solomon did not disbelieve but the devils disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels Harut and Marut, but neither of these two (angles) taught anyone (such things) until they had said: we are only for trial, so don't disbelieve. And from them (magicians) people learn that through which they would cause separation between a person and his spouse, but they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's leave; and they learn that which harms them rather than profits them. And indeed they knew that its practitioner would have no share in the Hereafter. And how bad indeed was that for which they sold their own selves if they but knew" (2:101-2).

Was afraid you were going to use that verse.

However, "And they followed what the devils gave out FALSELY of magic..."

،السلام عليكم

When reading about some of our earlier scholars, I learned of Ibn Idris al-Hilli who was a great Shia jurist and who wrote Kitab as-Sara'ir. From what I have read, it says in it he described magic as not being real and having no effect. I do not have the book nor do I think my Arabic would be strong enough to read it yet, so I do not know his methodology in coming to that conclusion.

He is probably correct. When trying to understand the 'Quran' via Hadiths, many will stray. For example, the way each sect has their own Salah. 3 times a day for the Torah, 3 times a day for the Quran (yet muslims pray 5 or at least sunnis), and probably it says something relating to 3 in the new testament.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...