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Abu_Rumaysah

Did Hz Ali Have Some Hidden Knowledge

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

I known that majority of shias do believe that prophet  (pbuh) taught hz Ali (as)  some knowledge that he  (pbuh) didn't open to anybody else.

 

In both sunni and shia well known and respected sources stated that hz Ali didn't confirm this, but rejected.

 

Imaam Abdullah ibn Ahmad narrated in his “Sunnan” (#1265) from Amr ibn Wasila, that Ali was asked: “Tell us something, that prophet (pbuh)  said your in secret”. He answered: “Messenger of Allah didn’t tell me anything in secret, which he conceals from people”.

 

 

It was also narrated by Tirmizi in his Sunnan from Abu Juhaifah:

"I said to 'Ali: O Commander of the Believers! Do you have anything written that is not in Allah's Book?' He said: 'By the One Who splits the seed and creates the soul, I have not learned from it except what understanding of the Qur'an Allah gives to a man, and what is in this sheet of paper.' I said: 'What is in the paper?' He said: 'It is the 'Aql, the (ransom for) release of captives, and the judgement that no believer is killed for a disbeliever.'" (hadith 1412)

 

And he also narrated in the saheeh Bukhari (hadith 111 english translation): Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked `Ali, 'Have you got any book (which has been revealed to the Prophet (ﷺ) apart from the Qur'an)?' `Ali replied, 'No, except Allah's Book or the power of understanding which has been bestowed (by Allah) upon a Muslim or what is (written) in this sheet of paper (with me).' Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked, 'What is (written) in this sheet of paper?' `Ali replied, it deals with The Diyya (compensation (blood money) paid by the killer to the relatives of the victim), the ransom for the releasing of the captives from the hands of the enemies, and the law that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).

 

Bukhari also narrated: I asked `Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" `Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel." (Hadith 3047)

 

Bukhari also narrated in Adab al Mufrad (hadith 17) (authenticated by Albani): Abu't-Tufayl said, "'Ali was asked, 'Did the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, give you something special which he did not give to anyone else?' He replied, 'The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, did not give me anything special which he did not give to everyone else except for what I have in my sword scabbard.' He brought out a piece of paper. Written on that paper was:'Allah curses anyone who sacrifices an animal to something other than Allah. Allah curses anyone who steals a milestone. Allah curses anyone who curses his parents. Allah curses anyone who gives shelter to an innovator.'"

 

Also in “Najhul-balagha” (sermon 163) it was narrated that Ali said to Uthman: “I know nothing which you do not know, nor can I lead you to any matter of which you are not aware. You certainly know what we know, we have not come to know anything before you which we could tell you; nor did we learn anything in secret which we should convey to you”.

 

So my brothers and sisters. What source in shariah makes you believe that he did left some special knowledge for hz Ali?

 

 

 

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Musa when he was sent with his revelation, felt there was knot on his tongue and asked for Harun for Harun was better at speech. In my belief, Nubuwa is a connection between the earth and the highest heaven, containing higher wisdom, that although is apparent in the hearts of God's chosen ones, they have hard time conveying it to the masses.

 

 

Ali was made the Door to the Wisdom of the Prophet, "I am the city of wisdom, and Ali is it's gate".  Ali was a help in conveying the subtle secrets of wisdom, the higher truths, on behalf of Mohammad, and hence was made the door to the city of wisdom in the life of time Mohammad in the same way Harun aided Musa in conveying the higher truths in eloquent and explainable form.

 

The Quran says "no one knows it's interpretation except for God; as well as the Firmly rooted in knowledge, they say we believe in it all...:"

 

If you don't believe there is higher wisdom that elites have access to but not everyone, that's up to you. That's denial of the reality of wisdom and higher knowledge.

 

We see in Quran, a person given knowledge from the book was able to bring a whole kingdom in a blink of an eye. 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

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What is the imami shia opinion of Abu juhayfa who narrates this hadith?

We know he was a companion of the prophet who was a partisan of Ali and made sheriff of Kufa by him.

We all know abu tufails status amongst imami shias

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So my brothers and sisters. What source in shariah makes you believe that he did left some special knowledge for hz Ali?

LoL, you are questioning a strong and main belief of Shias. You can see Sahih hadithes in Kafi and many other Shia books and even in the book of Sunnies.

It is well known that Muhammad PBUH said " I am city of knowledge and Ali is the door", Sunnies omitted this from their six Sahih books, older Sahih books did include this hadith. And still you can find this hadith in other Sunni books.

 

و قولوا في فضلنا ما شئتم بعد أن تثبتونا عبيدا مربوبين و لن تبلغ عقولکم علي ما آتانا الله من الفضل

احتجاج طبرسي، ج2، ص233

 After that you understand we are servants of Allah, you can say whatever you know about us, but your wisdom can never realize what Allah has given to us from his bounty.

 

What can we expect from people like Bukhary who tries to censor Ahlul Bait as most as he can.

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It is well known that Muhammad PBUH said " I am city of knowledge and Ali is the door", Sunnies omitted this from their six Sahih books, older Sahih books did include this hadith. And still you can find this hadith in other Sunni books.

 

 

This hadith present in Sunnan Tirmizi. 

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

A quick comparison of the sayings of 'Ali [a] to the sayings of the other Companions combined is sufficient to refute, i.e. bring to nought, any doubt that 'Ali [a] was not more knowledgeable of divine and spiritual things than anybody else after the Prophet

So, the question arises: who was his teacher?

The Tawhid of Imamiyya comes from reports with chains of transmission to the Ahlulbayt [a], beginning from 'Ali [a], and not from Ash'ari and b. 'Ata and Maturidi and b. Taymiyya and b. Abdul-wahhab.

Even the slightest comparison between the sayings of 'Ali [a] on Tawhid and the sayings of other Companions is sufficient to put this question to rest.

 

(wasalam)

 

Well said. Munajatal Shabaniya to me particular shows a connection to the Divine, that only an exalted close person to God could of wrote. (not necessarily a chosen Imam, but must be one of the greatest friends of God for sure).

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So my brothers and sisters. What source in shariah makes you believe that he did left some special knowledge for hz Ali?

 

what if, I proved it to you? do you put an end to such blind arguments?

 

Do you think that prophet has to come to you and explicitly say that I left some special knowledge for Imam Ali ?

I wonder how you do not want to even once read your books?

Is it the Shia scholars responsibility to get you to refer to your books?

 

1- The Prophet has touched the chest of Imam Ali and blessed him by the knowledge that he [imam Ali] never make mistake in judging among the people:

http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-23700/page-1683#page-1682

عَنْ عَلِيٍّ قَالَ: بَعَثَنِي رَسُول اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وسلم إلى الْيَمَنِ، فَقُلْتُ:

يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ، تَبْعَثُنِي إِلَى الْيَمَنِ، وَيَسْأَلُونِي عَنِ الْقَضَاءِ وَلا عِلْمَ لِي بِهِ! قَالَ: ادْنُ. فَدَنَوْتُ، فَضَرَبَ بِيَدِهِ عَلَى صَدْرِي، ثُمَّ قَالَ: «اللَّهمّ ثَبِّتْ لِسَانَهُ، وَاهْدِ قَلْبَهُ» . فَلا وَالَّذِي فَلَقَ الْحَبَّةَ وَبَرَأَ النَّسَمَةَ مَا شَكَكْتُ فِي قَضَاءٍ بَيْنَ اثْنَيْنِ بَعْدُ

Do not jump to say that this is a historical book, the same hadith in Musnad Ahmad

 

http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-25794/page-957#page-957

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللهِ، حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو الرَّبِيعِ الزَّهْرَانِيُّ، وَحَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ حَكِيمٍ الْأَوْدِيُّ، وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ الْوَرْكَانِيُّ، وَحَدَّثَنَا زَكَرِيَّا بْنُ يَحْيَى زحْمَوَيْهِ، وَحَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللهِ بْنُ عَامِرِ بْنِ زُرَارَةَ الْحَضْرَمِيُّ، وَحَدَّثَنَا دَاوُدُ بْنُ عَمْرٍو الضَّبِّيُّ، قَالُوا: حَدَّثَنَا شَرِيكٌ، عَنْ سِمَاكٍ، عَنْ حَنَشٍ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ، قَالَ: بَعَثَنِي النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِلَى الْيَمَنِ قَاضِيًا. فَقُلْتُ: تَبْعَثُنِي إِلَى قَوْمٍ وَأَنَا حَدَثُ السِّنِّ وَلا عِلْمَ لِي بِالْقَضَاءِ؟ فَوَضَعَ يَدَهُ عَلَى صَدْرِي، فَقَالَ: " ثَبَّتَكَ اللهُ وَسَدَّدَكَ، إِذَا جَاءَكَ الْخَصْمَانِ فَلا تَقْضِ للأوَّلِ حَتَّى تَسْمَعَ مِنَ الآخَرِ، فَإِنَّهُ أَجْدَرُ أَنْ يَبِينَ لَكَ الْقَضَاءُ " قَالَ: فَمَا زِلْتُ قَاضِيًا (1) وَهَذَا لَفْظُ حَدِيثِ دَاوُدَ بْنِ عَمْرٍو الضَّبِّيِّ، وَبَعْضُهُمِ أتَمُّ كَلامًا مِنْ بَعْضٍ،

 

2- Imam Ali possesing nine tenth of the knowledge that the other companiaons only acompany him in one tenth and the rest is the exclusive for Imam Ali:

http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-23700/page-1683

وقَالَ سَعِيد بْن المسيب: ما كَانَ أحد من النَّاس يَقُولُ: «سلوني» ، غير عليّ بْن أَبِي طَالِب [2] . وروى يَحيى بْن معين، عَنْ عبدة بْن سُلَيْمَان، عَنْ عَبْد الملك بْن [أَبِي] [3] سُلَيْمَان قَالَ: قلت لعطاء: أكان فِي أصحاب مُحَمَّد أعلم من عليّ؟ قَالَ: لا، والله لا أعلمه [4] وقَالَ ابْنُ عَبَّاس: لقد أعطى عليّ تسعة أعشار العلم، وايم اللَّه لقد شاركهم فِي العشر العاشر [4]

3- how this sentence sounds to you:

"you will never ask me about every thing up to the Day of Qyamat, except I 'll give you your response"

http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-7447/page-1090

وأخرجه عبد الرزاق من وجه آخر عن أبي الطفيل قال: شهدت عليا وهو يخطب وهو يقول: سلوني، فوالله لا تسألوني عن شيء يكون إلى يوم القيامة إلا حدثتكم به، وسلوني عن كتاب الله، فوالله ما من آية إلا وأنا أعلم أبليل أنزلت أم بنهار أم في سهل أم في جبل.

 

there are so many Ahadith that I post pone posting them to see how fair you are concerning what your books tell you.

 

So my brothers and sisters. What source in shariah makes you believe that he did left some special knowledge for hz Ali?

so my brothers and sisters. Why Sunni brothers are reluctant to narrate what placed in their book as regards to Imam Ali's Knowledge?

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The Quran says "Therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know".

 

Ahlulbayt have said the reminder is Mohammad (as another verse states Mohammad is the reminder) and they are his family in connection to these verses.

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١٣_٤٣ وَيَقُولُ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ لَسْتَ مُرْسَلًۭا ۚ قُلْ كَفَىٰ بِٱللَّهِ شَهِيدًۢا بَيْنِى وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَمَنْ عِندَهُۥ عِلْمُ ٱلْكِتَٰبِ

013:043 The faithless say, ‘You have not been sent [by Allah].’ Say, ‘Allah suffices as a witness between me and you, and he who possesses the knowledge of the Book.’

 

 

See if you can get some advice and save your soul from the following aya:

 

۞ يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلرَّسُولُ لَا يَحْزُنكَ ٱلَّذِينَ يُسَٰرِعُونَ فِى ٱلْكُفْرِ مِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوٓا۟ ءَامَنَّا بِأَفْوَٰهِهِمْ وَلَمْ تُؤْمِن قُلُوبُهُمْ ۛ وَمِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ ۛ سَمَّٰعُونَ لِلْكَذِبِ سَمَّٰعُونَ لِقَوْمٍ ءَاخَرِينَ لَمْ يَأْتُوكَ ۖ يُحَرِّفُونَ ٱلْكَلِمَ مِنۢ بَعْدِ مَوَاضِعِهِۦ ۖ يَقُولُونَ إِنْ أُوتِيتُمْ هَٰذَا فَخُذُوهُ وَإِن لَّمْ تُؤْتَوْهُ فَٱحْذَرُوا۟ ۚ وَمَن يُرِدِ ٱللَّهُ فِتْنَتَهُۥ فَلَن تَمْلِكَ لَهُۥ مِنَ ٱللَّهِ شَيْـًٔا ۚ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمْ يُرِدِ ٱللَّهُ أَن يُطَهِّرَ قُلُوبَهُمْ ۚ لَهُمْ فِى ٱلدُّنْيَا خِزْىٌۭ ۖ وَلَهُمْ فِى ٱلْءَاخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌۭ

005:041 O Apostle! Do not grieve for those who are active in [promoting] unfaith, such as those who say, ‘We believe’ with their mouths, but whose hearts have no faith, and the Jews who eavesdrop with the aim of [telling] lies [against you] and eavesdrop for other people who do not come to you. They pervert words from their meanings, [and] say, ‘If you are given this, take it, but if you are not given this, beware!’ Yet whomever Allah wishes to mislead, you cannot avail him anything against Allah. They are the ones whose hearts Allah did not desire to purify. For them is disgrace in this world, and there is a great punishment for them in the Hereafter.

 

See my signature and tell me if any of your so called imams can even come close to such info.

 
God >

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

A quick comparison of the sayings of 'Ali [a] to the sayings of the other Companions combined is sufficient to refute, i.e. bring to nought, any doubt that 'Ali [a] was not more knowledgeable of divine and spiritual things than anybody else after the Prophet

 

Even the slightest comparison between the sayings of 'Ali [a] on Tawhid and the sayings of other Companions is sufficient to put this question to rest.

 

(wasalam)

 

Bismillah

 

(salam)

 

Brother Jebreil, i feel embarrassed asking a muhaqiq and mudaqiq like yourself this question, but have you reviewed the sermons of Umar b. Khattab in the Sharh of Ibn Abi Hadid? 

 

I have met a scholar who would argue the same that you have above, until he came across these sermons, and said that this argument is not full-proof. 

 

Also, you are more than well aware that some of what we believe today to be from the Imams (in terms of Du'aa', sermons, letters and other literature) is not always necessarily from a holy infallible. I draw your attention towards the debate on the last part of du`a `Arafah (as attributed to Imam Hussayn), and different versions of certain famous ahadith discussed on this forum before (fadak, kisa, Mufadhhal). The argument could be made that of the things we have within our own Shi'ite heritage, is mostly inspired from the Imams themselves and their existing literature, but again this is a debatable case when it comes to certain texts. 

 

I only bring this up with you because i am genuinely interested in your thoughts, otherwise i try to stay clear of such discussions online. 

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

 

With respect to the question of attribution, I admit your point, but I don't think it should be emphasised too much.

Each sect denies the sahih and sometimes even mutawatirat of the other sect attributing things either to the Prophet or to the Ahlulbayt, especially 'Ali [a]. 

If the question of attribution is emphasised too much by both sects, it would result in Koranism, which both deny, and rightly so.

The issue should be settled by the reputation that precedes these Companions, as supported by the attributions and perhaps other qarain.

 

(wasalam)

 

Bismillah

 

(salam)

 

Inshallah give me a few days, i hope my timetable gives me some quality free time on thursday and friday so that i can post the relevant sermons (I myself have not looked into them with any real depth and only at face value). 

 

Regarding 'attribution', i am not sure if my point came across clearly or not, but what i meant was that some of these different supplications or sermons we later come to find, or at least debate, that they are possibly from a fallible (for example an addition of Sayyid Ibn Tawwus - for du'a Arafah this is inaccurate, but lets go with this example for the sake of discussion). We find that some of what he included in his priceless books, and is now attributed to the infallible by scholar and laymen alike, is in fact from a non-ma`sum. So the arguments that the words can not be matched is a slippery one and may not always hold true. Just a thought to entertain. 

 

God bless you.

 

I apologise for the horrible writing, i should have been asleep some time ago. 

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It is beyond our comprehension the amount of knowledge that Allah swt has given Imam Ali a.s, When The Prophet pbuh and his family says I am the city of knowledge and Imam Ali a.s is its gate, that tells me that he Imam Ali a.s has the same knowledge of the Prophet pbuh and his family. 

 

There is a hadith about Imam Ali a.s and Kumayl however I cannot remember it , Imam Ali a.s hits his fist in the earth and says the earth is the only thing that can understand me. (please brothers and sisters if you can recall the correct Hadith I would appreciate it if you can add it so I can know it) 

 

Thanks and Salam.

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I believe that holy 13 (and possibly 14) (as) have the EXACT SAME knowledge.

 

Here is the Hadith of Imam Ali (as) to Kumail (as) if he was martyred or (ra) if he died which is the nearest I can find to wht you describe brother Journey of Truth: http://heliwave.com/ImamAli.html in Arabic and English.

 

God >

Edited by heliwave

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Ali was made the Door to the Wisdom of the Prophet, "I am the city of wisdom, and Ali is it's gate". 

 

Let us for the sake of argument accept this report. What can we do with it in the light of sunni/shia report that I have quoted in the first post here?

 

Nothing. 

 

Jebreil

A quick comparison of the sayings of 'Ali [a] to the sayings of the other Companions combined is sufficient to refute, i.e. bring to nought, any doubt that 'Ali [a] was not more knowledgeable of divine and spiritual things than anybody else after the Prophet

 

 

If someone speaking much and giving much fatawas, and other doing that less than him that does not mean first one is more knowledgeable.

 

If you will compare by your logic reports from Ibn Umar or ibn Abbas in our books with all first 3 caliphs, you will say they were smarter? 

 

Mahdi servant.

 

1- The Prophet has touched the chest of Imam Ali and blessed him by the knowledge that he [imam Ali] never make mistake in judging among the people:

http://shamela.ws/br...-1683#page-1682

عَنْ عَلِيٍّ قَالَ: بَعَثَنِي رَسُول اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وسلم إلى الْيَمَنِ، فَقُلْتُ:

يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ، تَبْعَثُنِي إِلَى الْيَمَنِ، وَيَسْأَلُونِي عَنِ الْقَضَاءِ وَلا عِلْمَ لِي بِهِ! قَالَ: ادْنُ. فَدَنَوْتُ، فَضَرَبَ بِيَدِهِ عَلَى صَدْرِي، ثُمَّ قَالَ: «اللَّهمّ ثَبِّتْ لِسَانَهُ، وَاهْدِ قَلْبَهُ» . فَلا وَالَّذِي فَلَقَ الْحَبَّةَ وَبَرَأَ النَّسَمَةَ مَا شَكَكْتُ فِي قَضَاءٍ بَيْنَ اثْنَيْنِ بَعْدُ

Do not jump to say that this is a historical book, the same hadith in Musnad Ahmad

 

http://shamela.ws/br...ge-957#page-957

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللهِ، حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو الرَّبِيعِ الزَّهْرَانِيُّ، وَحَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ حَكِيمٍ الْأَوْدِيُّ، وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ الْوَرْكَانِيُّ، وَحَدَّثَنَا زَكَرِيَّا بْنُ يَحْيَى زحْمَوَيْهِ، وَحَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللهِ بْنُ عَامِرِ بْنِ زُرَارَةَ الْحَضْرَمِيُّ، وَحَدَّثَنَا دَاوُدُ بْنُ عَمْرٍو الضَّبِّيُّ، قَالُوا: حَدَّثَنَا شَرِيكٌ، عَنْ سِمَاكٍ، عَنْ حَنَشٍ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ، قَالَ: بَعَثَنِي النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِلَى الْيَمَنِ قَاضِيًا. فَقُلْتُ: تَبْعَثُنِي إِلَى قَوْمٍ وَأَنَا حَدَثُ السِّنِّ وَلا عِلْمَ لِي بِالْقَضَاءِ؟ فَوَضَعَ يَدَهُ عَلَى صَدْرِي، فَقَالَ: " ثَبَّتَكَ اللهُ وَسَدَّدَكَ، إِذَا جَاءَكَ الْخَصْمَانِ فَلا تَقْضِ للأوَّلِ حَتَّى تَسْمَعَ مِنَ الآخَرِ، فَإِنَّهُ أَجْدَرُ أَنْ يَبِينَ لَكَ الْقَضَاءُ " قَالَ: فَمَا زِلْتُ قَاضِيًا (1) وَهَذَا لَفْظُ حَدِيثِ دَاوُدَ بْنِ عَمْرٍو الضَّبِّيِّ، وَبَعْضُهُمِ أتَمُّ كَلامًا مِنْ بَعْضٍ

 

،

First of all can you please be so kind to show me where in Musnad stated that Ali never erred in judgment?

 

Second, does this report mean or says us that hz Ali possess any secret knowledge which other don't? No.

 

Your point number two is also irrelevant to the topic. Because praise of Ata or ibn Abbas for hz Ali, doesn't mean he obtained any secret knowledge.

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blaa blaa blaa

 

What do you think the word "Raki3oon" means in the Quran?

NOTE: It is not a position one takes during prayer.

 

٢_٤٣ وَأَقِيمُوا۟ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتُوا۟ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَٱرْكَعُوا۟ مَعَ ٱلرَّٰكِعِينَ
٢_١٢٥ وَإِذْ جَعَلْنَا ٱلْبَيْتَ مَثَابَةًۭ لِّلنَّاسِ وَأَمْنًۭا وَٱتَّخِذُوا۟ مِن مَّقَامِ إِبْرَٰهِـۧمَ مُصَلًّۭى ۖ وَعَهِدْنَآ إِلَىٰٓ إِبْرَٰهِـۧمَ وَإِسْمَٰعِيلَ أَن طَهِّرَا بَيْتِىَ لِلطَّآئِفِينَ وَٱلْعَٰكِفِينَ وَٱلرُّكَّعِ ٱلسُّجُودِ
٣_٤٣ يَٰمَرْيَمُ ٱقْنُتِى لِرَبِّكِ وَٱسْجُدِى وَٱرْكَعِى مَعَ ٱلرَّٰكِعِينَ
٥_٥٥ إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ ٱللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُۥ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ ٱلَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَهُمْ رَٰكِعُونَ
٩_١١٢ ٱلتَّٰٓئِبُونَ ٱلْعَٰبِدُونَ ٱلْحَٰمِدُونَ ٱلسَّٰٓئِحُونَ ٱلرَّٰكِعُونَ ٱلسَّٰجِدُونَ ٱلْءَامِرُونَ بِٱلْمَعْرُوفِ وَٱلنَّاهُونَ عَنِ ٱلْمُنكَرِ وَٱلْحَٰفِظُونَ لِحُدُودِ ٱللَّهِ ۗ وَبَشِّرِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ
٢٢_٢٦ وَإِذْ بَوَّأْنَا لِإِبْرَٰهِيمَ مَكَانَ ٱلْبَيْتِ أَن لَّا تُشْرِكْ بِى شَيْـًۭٔا وَطَهِّرْ بَيْتِىَ لِلطَّآئِفِينَ وَٱلْقَآئِمِينَ وَٱلرُّكَّعِ ٱلسُّجُودِ
٢٢_٧٧ يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ ٱرْكَعُوا۟ وَٱسْجُدُوا۟ وَٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمْ وَٱفْعَلُوا۟ ٱلْخَيْرَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ ۩
٣٨_٢٤ قَالَ لَقَدْ ظَلَمَكَ بِسُؤَالِ نَعْجَتِكَ إِلَىٰ نِعَاجِهِۦ ۖ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًۭا مِّنَ ٱلْخُلَطَآءِ لَيَبْغِى بَعْضُهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ إِلَّا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتِ وَقَلِيلٌۭ مَّا هُمْ ۗ وَظَنَّ دَاوُۥدُ أَنَّمَا فَتَنَّٰهُ فَٱسْتَغْفَرَ رَبَّهُۥ وَخَرَّ رَاكِعًۭا وَأَنَابَ ۩
٤٨_٢٩ مُّحَمَّدٌۭ رَّسُولُ ٱللَّهِ ۚ وَٱلَّذِينَ مَعَهُۥٓ أَشِدَّآءُ عَلَى ٱلْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَآءُ بَيْنَهُمْ ۖ تَرَىٰهُمْ رُكَّعًۭا سُجَّدًۭا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًۭا مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ وَرِضْوَٰنًۭا ۖ سِيمَاهُمْ فِى وُجُوهِهِم مِّنْ أَثَرِ ٱلسُّجُودِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِى ٱلتَّوْرَىٰةِ ۚ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِى ٱلْإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْـَٔهُۥ فَـَٔازَرَهُۥ فَٱسْتَغْلَظَ فَٱسْتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِۦ يُعْجِبُ ٱلزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ ٱلْكُفَّارَ ۗ وَعَدَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةًۭ وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًۢا
٧٧_٤٨ وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمُ ٱرْكَعُوا۟ لَا يَرْكَعُونَ
 

 

Then see this recipe from Allah swt for SUCCESS in Quran 5:54-56

يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ مَن يَرْتَدَّ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِۦ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِى ٱللَّهُ بِقَوْمٍۢ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُۥٓ أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى ٱلْكَٰفِرِينَ يُجَٰهِدُونَ فِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ وَلَا يَخَافُونَ لَوْمَةَ لَآئِمٍۢ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ فَضْلُ ٱللَّهِ يُؤْتِيهِ مَن يَشَآءُ ۚ وَٱللَّهُ وَٰسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ
إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ ٱللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُۥ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ ٱلَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَهُمْ رَٰكِعُونَ
وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُۥ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ ٱللَّهِ هُمُ ٱلْغَٰلِبُونَ
 
Then see this Quran 13:43
وَيَقُولُ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ لَسْتَ مُرْسَلًۭا ۚ قُلْ كَفَىٰ بِٱللَّهِ شَهِيدًۢا بَيْنِى وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَمَنْ عِندَهُۥ عِلْمُ ٱلْكِتَٰبِ
 
If this last aya doesn't tell you that someone other than Allah and His Prophet  has THE FULL knowledge of the Book (regardless of who he is) then count yourself amongst those Allah is referring to them in 5:54.
 
No salam
 
Ali

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Jebreil

 

I am not talking about such books like Nahjul Balagha and all others reports which attributed to hz Ali not by the way of truthful. 

 

Qualitatively, is what you attributed to  'prophet (saws) is superior to what you reported from hz Ali? 

Please explain me on two examples - words of beloved prophet, and words of hz Ali. Bring two examples for each and explain why in your view prophet  (pbuh) is more knowledgeable than hz Ali. 

 

After inshallah I will give you some examples that you have requested. 

 

Also I am surprised that my brothers completely ignored the words from Nahjul Balagha, where hz Ali clearly said to hz Usman: I know nothing that you don't know. 

 

What can be clear than these words? 

Edited by Abu_Rumaysah

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