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Against oneself

Marriage Crisis Crisis Crisis!

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Really? I don't do any of those things. I don't think my husband does any of those things either. I had no idea we were rare.

Do you have a savings account that earns interest?  The general consensus would be that that is haram.  I've also heard that buying insurance is haram for similar reasons as gambling.

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Do you have a savings account that earns interest?  The general consensus would be that that is haram.  I've also heard that buying insurance is haram for similar reasons as gambling.

According to Ayt. Sistani, paying interest is haram (except in the case of necessity), but receiving it is not. As for insurance, it is required by law. I've never seen any fatwa saying it is haram, but it does seem like gambling to me, except when mandated by law, when it becomes similar to a tax.

But this is really not the point of the topic. The topic is about barriers to marriage.

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Imam al-Jawad (a.s) said: ‘Verily the Messenger of Allāh (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: “If someone comes to you and you are satisfied with his manners and religion, marry him. Verily, if you do not do that, there will be fitnah (sedition) on the earth and great fasād (corruption)”’

Source: al-Tūsī, Tahdhīb al-Aḥkām, 10 vols., (Tehran: Dār al-Kutub al-Islāmiyyah, 4th Edition, 1407 AH), vol. 7, pg. 395, hadeeth # 4

Grading: al-Majlisī said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (Reliable) Milādh al-Akhyār (Qum: Maktabah Ayatollah al-Mar`ashī al-Najafī, 1406 AH), vol. 12, pg. 311

Edited by al-Ibrahimi

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(salam)

 

A couple of general comments:

 

I read a few years ago about doctors in Iran. 10,000 more than the gov't could find jobs for. As a general rule, the male doctors were single because they didn't have a job; and the female doctors were single because they will not marry someone with a lower education level.

I know some women take this position because many -maybe most- men have a problem with smart and smarter women than they are. Which, personally, l think reflects an under-developed personality. My Father told me more than once "always marry a smart girl". Especially if you are sure than in one or more ways she is smarter than you are.

Good advice. Why? Because from the guys l grew-up with, slobs in the Army, even in college, l saw the following: There is no bigger pain in the arse or anything more depressing to your being than a dumb girl.  You can't believe the seriously stupid things some guys l saw get saddled with.

One l remembered last week: This NCO bought a lottery ticket back in the 70s. He wins $500 (you can make the high inflationary adjustments here.) So what does his dumb wife do? She goes out and buys an expensive sports car. I remember his saying, he not only lost the $500 she used as the down payment and the first car payment, but he had to pay the car dealer $1500 to take the car back and cancel the sale. It had taken him, as l remember his saying, three years to save that $1500 --before he was married!

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Certainly, this website seems to have the highest concentration of 0.1% percenters anywhere. Just don't take a step outside.

There is also the possibility that your statistic is wrong. My family are all non-Muslim, some Christian but most nonreligious or agnostic, and most of them would say no to all of those questions. I certainly wouldn't expect religious people's answers to be worse.

Maybe its time for you to step outside.

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There is also the possibility that your statistic is wrong. My family are all non-Muslim, some Christian but most nonreligious or agnostic, and most of them would say no to all of those questions. I certainly wouldn't expect religious people's answers to be worse.

Maybe its time for you to step outside.

 

No, I'm pretty certain of it.  All I said is most people would say yes to at least one.  Even just the alcohol drinking, porn viewing, being in haram environments and backbiting would be sufficient to cover most people, Muslim and non-Muslim. 

 

0.1% of 7 billion is still a lot of people, so sure, you might be in the elite of human purity.  But that above stuff is way to permeating.  And we're just talking about publically.  If we add the private sphere, then the number is probably even higher. 

 

But back to the main point of the thread.  Finding someone of "good character", and who would answer no to every question, AND is personally compatble, AND is logistically feasible is extremely rare and untenable.  Marriage couldn't possibly be a universal solution for everyone, if the pool for we should pick is so limited.  We are all corrupted, and we have to pick fellow corrupted ones.  Whether our egos accept that reality and characterization of ourselves is a separate issue. 

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There is also the possibility that your statistic is wrong. My family are all non-Muslim, some Christian but most nonreligious or agnostic, and most of them would say no to all of those questions. I certainly wouldn't expect religious people's answers to be worse.

Maybe its time for you to step outside.

 

Perhaps the brother is trying to say is that no one is perfect.

No, I'm pretty certain of it.  All I said is most people would say yes to at least one.  Even just the alcohol drinking, porn viewing, being in haram environments and backbiting would be sufficient to cover most people, Muslim and non-Muslim. 

 

0.1% of 7 billion is still a lot of people, so sure, you might be in the elite of human purity.  But that above stuff is way to permeating.  And we're just talking about publically.  If we add the private sphere, then the number is probably even higher. 

 

But back to the main point of the thread.  Finding someone of "good character", and who would answer no to every question, AND is personally compatble, AND is logistically feasible is extremely rare and untenable.  Marriage couldn't possibly be a universal solution for everyone, if the pool for we should pick is so limited.  We are all corrupted, and we have to pick fellow corrupted ones.  Whether our egos accept that reality and characterization of ourselves is a separate issue. 

 

Marriage is a highly recommended concept, I see your point but It is not necessarily so. Every person's view of what a good character is, choice, compatibility etc differs. Some people are more patient than others, I may be attracted to a certain type of person physically etc. Everyone doesn't suit everyone. Hence the possibility of marriage does lie there. Aside from all the factors that may hinder marriage, Allah who has created us knows everything about us therefore he has created this concept. In particular of the case where a person is likely to fall into sin, it becomes wajib. That means almost every person in the world is likely to sin due to the needs created in us. We only think on a small scale as that is all we know. But he whose knowledge is infinite cannot be disputed. Do you know what I mean brother? 

Edited by Fresh-imaan

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First, I would apply this equally to women and men.

Second, if he/she lies? Gives the answer you want to hear? Interprets the questions differently from you? How can one know these things in just a few brief meetings?

 

 

Couples should take as much time as they need to know one another and to achieve a feeling of certainty before making a decision. There should be no set time by when they have to reach a decision, and no pressure from parents or each other. Honestly I believe it to be a huge misconception that unmarried people should not interact with each other for long. It can be done respectfully and appropriately with clear boundaries and parental guidance.

 

I would also strongly encourage, that where possible, couples should not just get to know each others as individuals, but each others families as well. People are far less likely to lie or put on a front in front of their parents and siblings. I spent a lot of time observing how my husband interacted and treated the women in his family, how he spoke about them in their absence. I believed it would be the best available way of predicting how he would treat me if we were to get married. I would encourage the brothers and sisters to do this when considering people for marriage.

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Once 3 men returned from a trip to the same place back to the prophet, and they all came back separately but from the same location.

 

The prophet asked the first man "How were the people?" the man replied "They were all deviated, they all gambled and stole and drank alcohol"

 

The second man arrived, the prophet asked "How were the people?" the second man replied "They were very bad people, all they did was backbite and they were not religious at all"

 

The third man arrived and the prophet asked again the same question "How were the people?" the last man replied "Alhumdolillah they were good people, they were kind to others and they were religious".

 

This confused some people and they asked the prophet, "How is it that 3 people come from the same place yet they have 3 different views on how the people were?"

 

The prophet replied "Each person meets their own kind, the first is a dishonest person and so he joined his own kind, the second is a bad person and irreligious so he joined the people of his own kind and the last is a virtuous man and he joined the company of virtuous men. Hence why all of them have their own reports, because they all lived with people of their own kind in nature".

 

Moral of the story is to look at your surrounding environment, the types of people you live around are the type you become if you already are not. If you place yourself amongst virtuous people then you become like them and if you place yourself among vicious people then you become like them.

 

For example: I and my brother are like 2 opposites even though we come from the same womb, he doesn't like what I like and I don't like what he likes, Why? because he placed himself among people who did not value intangible qualities whereas I placed myself among people who were older and they valued good traits of character and now I and my brother we value 2 different aspects of life. What I value he mocks and what he values has no value.

Is this really atributed to the prophet?  I've heard so many versions of this story attributed to so many people.

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Is this really atributed to the prophet?  I've heard so many versions of this story attributed to so many people.

Don't know I am not claiming it to be the way I have written it, as you can see there are no sources. 

 

I simply heard it from someone else and yes as I heard it, it was attributed to the prophet.

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99.9% of people on this Earth would say yes to at least one of those things. 

 

Salam Br. I was waiting for someone to comment on that, lol. 

 

It's true that most people, even many muslims do one or more of those things. The ones who are marriage material are the ones who acknowledge their weaknesses(to Allah(s.w.a)), do the Tauba(ask forgiveness from Allah(s.w.a)), and take active steps never to repeat the mistakes, these are the ones. Also, they don't let these things become habits that are often repeated so that they become part of their personality.

 

The benefit of early marriage is that now you have someone who you love and respect(hopefully) and are close and intimate with who will look at what you do. This is a hidden benefit of marriage that most brothers and sisters don't realize. If you have some haram habits that you managed to hide from you parents, you will not be able to hide them from your spouse. And when the moment of crisis happens and your spouse finds out and confronts you, then you have a big opportunity to use this shame and humiliation you feel as a motivation to stop this habit while you are still young. Whereas if you are single and go into your 30s or 40s with this habit, it is extremely unlikely that you will ever stop and most likely you will go to the grave with this habit and thus be punished by Allah(s.w.a) for this. I am not saying that it is impossible to stop a haram habit at an older age, but it is an order of magnitude more difficult and thus much less likely to happen. 

 

Marriage (while young) is a second chance to get rid of any haram habits you may have developed in your teen years or early 20s. That is if you marry a spouse with proper deen (i.e. your spouse doesn't have the same haram habit as you have) and aklaq (meaning your spouse will not broadcast your weakness to the world) .

 

The main reason for high divorce rate in our muslim community is late marriage. The brother or sister has many years living without someone watching them closely to develop this habit and then it gets engrained in their personality. Spouses get married in their 30s and 40s, find out after the marriage that their spouse has the haram habit, the spouse refuses to stop or change (because it is more difficult at that age), then the marriage falls apart. Any one of those things which I mentioned could very easily destroy a marriage if they are not stopped. 

 

The last point is that you don't have to choose between education and marriage. Both me and my wife completed our college education(university education for those living in the UK) while we were married.Neither one of us are from wealthy families who helped us with this. There are many brothers and sisters who have done the same. It may take a little longer to finish (if for example you decide to have children) and you will have to probably compromise on lifestyle (more simple material life while you are studying) but it is possible and your marriage will become stronger as you learn with your spouse to compromise and cooperate on things which are important to both of you. You don't need to have children right after marriage. this is perfectly fine and possible nowdays, but don't delay marriage. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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You know, I have had this absurd idea or having a shiachat-matchmaking service :lol:. It would be quite funny (and a good deed)  Mind you, I personally know of people who got married through SC. Maybe people can discuss/resolve their differences through this holy site inshaAllah.

Edited by Fresh-imaan

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Salam Br. I was waiting for someone to comment on that, lol. 

 

It's true that most people, even many muslims do one or more of those things. The ones who are marriage material are the ones who acknowledge their weaknesses(to Allah(s.w.a)), do the Tauba(ask forgiveness from Allah(s.w.a)), and take active steps never to repeat the mistakes, these are the ones. Also, they don't let these things become habits that are often repeated so that they become part of their personality.

 

Society is too corrupted.  There is not enough faith and love in this world anymore, to satisfy the important needs of everyone.  Marriage and relationships are no exception, its just another mechanism for conflict and woe, just like any other transaction in this filthy world.  Just try to survive while you can.   

Edited by magma

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Sad. A young man advising an older man to be cynical. Really life is good if you expect good and bad if you expect bad. Things that happen are just things that happen. Your life is your choices.

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The main reason for high divorce rate in our muslim community is late marriage. The brother or sister has many years living without someone watching them closely to develop this habit and then it gets engrained in their personality. Spouses get married in their 30s and 40s, find out after the marriage that their spouse has the haram habit, the spouse refuses to stop or change (because it is more difficult at that age), then the marriage falls apart. Any one of those things which I mentioned could very easily destroy a marriage if they are not stopped. 

 

Do you have any statistics to back this up? Statistics demonstrate just the opposite, early marriages tend to have the highest rate of divorce,  at least in the well studied non-muslim demographic.  The older and more educated you are, the lower the divorce rate.  I highly doubt it is the total opposite for muslim couples since non-muslims aren't exactly extraterrestrial.  I would be interested in some research that isn't solely based on personal observation.

Edited by King

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Sad. A young man advising an older man to be cynical. Really life is good if you expect good and bad if you expect bad. Things that happen are just things that happen. Your life is your choices.

 

I'm open to this idea that life is based more on internal perception than external realities. 

 

But what choices do you have, when the choices are a wolf or a fox?  Or is the choice to have a smile when being devoured by either?

Edited by magma

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Do you have any statistics to back this up? Statistics demonstrate just the opposite, early marriages tend to have the highest rate of divorce,  at least in the well studied non-muslim demographic.  The older and more educated you are, the lower the divorce rate.  I highly doubt it is the total opposite for muslim couples since non-muslims aren't exactly extraterrestrial.  I would be interested in some research that isn't solely based on personal observation.

 

The two main proofs of this are #1, We have 100s of authentic hadith that encourage early marriage and no hadiths that encourage late marriage. If you accept that Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and Imams are Hujjat for us, you would not need additional proof. But nevertheless...

 

I am mostly talking about Muslims who live in the West (US,UK,Europe,Australia,Canada). Unfortunately, there are no government statistics in these countries that seperate out based on religion and reason for divorce. Even if there were, the stated reason for divorce will most likely be a 'cover' and not give the real story as to why the marriage ended. Any group besides the government that would compile these statistics I would be skeptical of, since there are hundreds of 'research institutes' in these countries which are run by kuffar and their sole purpose is to tarnish the image of Islam amoung non muslims in the West. To compile these types of statistics (with anything other than an extremely small sample size) would not only require thousands of man hours and many thousands of dollars in expenses (not a small project) and I don't think there is any will in the community right now for this type of project. 

 

I didn't come to this conclusion from personal observation, but I am in close contact with several ulema in the US who do divorces. There is a consensus amoung them that this is the case. That is the research, take it for what it is. Salam. 

 

By the way, there is one interesting statistic. In the US, general population, the median age for marriage went from 23 for men and 20 for women in 1950. to 27 for men and 26 for women in 2004.

During those same years, the divorce rate doubled, from 25% in 1950 to approx 50% in 2004. These are statistics compiled by the US Govt. (census.gov). 

 

Which is one of the reasons why, at least amoung non muslim, marriage is not even something many couples even consider anymore. It is considered dated and old fashion. Hopefully, as muslims, the same thing won't happen to us. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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The two main proofs of this are #1, We have 100s of authentic hadith that encourage early marriage and no hadiths that encourage late marriage. If you accept that Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and Imams are Hujjat for us, you would not need additional proof. But nevertheless...

 

I am mostly talking about Muslims who live in the West (US,UK,Europe,Australia,Canada). Unfortunately, there are no government statistics in these countries that seperate out based on religion and reason for divorce. Even if there were, the stated reason for divorce will most likely be a 'cover' and not give the real story as to why the marriage ended. Any group besides the government that would compile these statistics I would be skeptical of, since there are hundreds of 'research institutes' in these countries which are run by kuffar and their sole purpose is to tarnish the image of Islam amoung non muslims in the West. To compile these types of statistics (with anything other than an extremely small sample size) would not only require thousands of man hours and many thousands of dollars in expenses (not a small project) and I don't think there is any will in the community right now for this type of project. 

 

I didn't come to this conclusion from personal observation, but I am in close contact with several ulema in the US who do divorces. There is a consensus amoung them that this is the case. That is the research, take it for what it is. Salam. 

 

By the way, there is one interesting statistic. In the US, general population, the median age for marriage went from 23 for men and 20 for women in 1950. to 27 for men and 26 for women in 2004.

During those same years, the divorce rate doubled, from 25% in 1950 to approx 50% in 2004. These are statistics compiled by the US Govt. (census.gov). 

 

Which is one of the reasons why, at least amoung non muslim, marriage is not even something many couples even consider anymore. It is considered dated and old fashion. Hopefully, as muslims, the same thing won't happen to us. 

 

As I said before, the fact islam encourages it is sufficient, why do you bother elaborating for paragraphs on end?  The very fact that you do means that these bold claims you make are open to inquiry.

 

Yes, I know a lot of people in the muslim community too, and far too often the reason for divorce within the muslim community is marrying far too early and lack of maturity. Furthermore this is totally reasonable and in line with patterns exhibited among the rest of the human species. This is the research, and yet you would be wise to not just accept any conclusions derived from it, wsalam.

 

The last reference statistic you mentioned is completely meaningless on its own, and it is in no shape or form an argument for early marriage.

A lot of times, nonMuslims who get married have been dating each other for many years anyway, even living together a lot of the time. So on the surface it looks like these couples did get married when they were a little older but they were practically 'married' and committed long before they officially tied the knot. Two 30 year old nonMuslims that get married have likely been together and fornicating since they were at least 26 or so. 

 

You probably also have to look at the reason that nonMuslims who get married young, get married in the first place. I haven't done the research but it's probably the case that many times the boy has gotten the girl pregnant out of wedlock, so they feel pressured to get married, and then of course this will likely end in divorce because they didn't get married for the right reasons nor to the person they even really wanted to marry, hence the high divorce rates among young married couples. Because I can't think of any other major incentives to getting married young among nonMuslims in this culture where dating for a long time and getting experience is the norm, and early marriage is actually condemned. 

 

In Islam obviously a marriage of young couple would probably and hopefully be a lot smarter, with the support and approval of the parents. No out of wedlock babies. Etc. 

 

These are important factors, but I can easily mention countless more sensible arguments for the benefits of delaying marriage, the point is that it is not an exact science and I would avoid concretely arguing either way.  We all have our opinions about what is best but I feel it is virtually impossible for us to determine a correct general formula for these things.  Two human beings coming together to form a lifelong bond is an endlessly complicated affair to analyze and break down.  I don't necessarily have a problem with muslims saying islam encourages so, but then to keep using rather incomplete arguments to justify the premise is a rather silly exercise, and a gross oversimplification.

Edited by King

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I'm open to this idea that life is based more on internal perception than external realities. 

 

But what choices do you have, when the choices are a wolf or a fox?  Or is the choice to have a smile when being devoured by either?

 

No.  The choice is to get away from both and keep looking for that deer or rabbit or whatever that's your match.  Unless of course, you are a wolf or a fox, in which case you just need to stand your ground and accept the bad along with the good.

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As I said before, the fact islam encourages it is sufficient, why do you bother elaborating for paragraphs on end?  The very fact that you do means that these bold claims you make are open to inquiry.

 

Yes, I know a lot of people in the muslim community too, and far too often the reason for divorce within the muslim community is marrying far too early and lack of maturity. Furthermore this is totally reasonable and in line with patterns exhibited among the rest of the human species. This is the research, and yet you would be wise to not just accept any conclusions derived from it, wsalam.

 

The last reference statistic you mentioned is completely meaningless on its own, and it is in no shape or form an argument for early marriage.

 

These are important factors, but I can easily mention countless more sensible arguments for the benefits of delaying marriage, the point is that it is not an exact science and I would avoid concretely arguing either way.  We all have our opinions about what is best but I feel it is virtually impossible for us to determine a correct general formula for these things.  Two human beings coming together to form a lifelong bond is an endlessly complicated affair to analyze and break down.  I don't necessarily have a problem with muslims saying islam encourages so, but then to keep using rather incomplete arguments to justify the premise is a rather silly exercise, and a gross oversimplification.

 

Because you asked for statistical evidence that's why. It doesn't really mean that much to me because I am fully aware of how statistics can be manipulated to suite whatever message you would like to present. As the saying goes, there is lies, damn lies, then there's statistics. The basis of my argument is hadith, not statistics. 

 

I understand that what I am saying may not make sense to muslims living in muslim countries, such as Pakistan, because divorce there is not so common and if people get divorced, it is more likely that it is for other reasons, such as inlaw issues or financial issues. Most people in those countries who develop haram habits tend to stay married, and the habits can only go so far due to scarcity of time, privacy, and financial resources. 

 

I didn't say that the statistics I posted are conclusive evidence, but they are not meaningless. They show some connection between age of marriage and divorce rate, but to prove the point conclusively you would need more evidence. These statistics support the hadith that encourage early marriage 

 

Also, if you are familiar with my other posts, I also do not encourage early teens (12 to 16) to get married until it can be established that they are baligh and rushd. Also, as I have said before, I think it should be encouraged for the potential couple to get to know each other a little before marriage either by meeting in presence of the parents over several months or mutah before permenant nikah. You will see that what I am saying is not the same as most of the 'conservative' types on here. I am considered, by most members, to be a moderate (moderator, lol). 

 

I sincerely believe also that the other main reason that divorce is so high is because mutah is so stigmatized that most Shia do not even consider it and so if permenant nikah (the dowry, support requirements, etc) is the only option for a couple to be together, marriage gets delayed and the muslim community becomes accustom to a large number of single people being in the community. Being single starts to become more and more normal and being married becomes more and more rare (again this has not happened yet in most muslim countries but if the trends continue, it might). This is the opposite of what is encouraged in Islam. 

 

If Mutah were accepted and encouraged, almost everyone who is baligh and rushd would be married. Then they would have more incentive to figure out how to make the marriage work. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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No.  The choice is to get away from both and keep looking for that deer or rabbit or whatever that's your match.  Unless of course, you are a wolf or a fox, in which case you just need to stand your ground and accept the bad along with the good.

 

I'll take your word for it. 

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Just avoid these countries that have a greater than 50% divorce rate.. Marry somewhere else...

 

Russia - 51%

 

Switzerland - 51%

 

Latvia - 52%

 

Lithuania - 53%

 

United States - 53%

 

France - 55%

 

Cuba - 56%

 

Estonia - 58%

 

Luxembourg - 60%

 

Spain - 61%

 

Czech Republic - 66%

 

Hungary - 67%

 

Portugal - 68%

 

Begium - 71%

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_demography


A lot of times, nonMuslims who get married have been dating each other for many years anyway, even living together a lot of the time. So on the surface it looks like these couples did get married when they were a little older but they were practically 'married' and committed long before they officially tied the knot. Two 30 year old nonMuslims that get married have likely been together and fornicating since they were at least 26 or so. 

 

 

That is probably a strong reason.  Lots of couples are together a while before they marry, in the west anyway.  Although, two 30 year old Muslims could have been in mutah, and then in nikah and divorce after 30 although they were together when they were younger.  Dont know how you could figure this out.

Edited by Maryaam

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There are also numerous Muslim couples who do not register their marriage with the government, they simply do the Islamic Nikah. Therefore the database does not know about the many Muslim couples who are married but not registered with the government.

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

King

 

I understand and concede your point about the complexity of human behaviour at the level of particular humans in particular contexts.

But I deny that this stops us from making meaningful comparisons between marriage times all other things being equal.

 

There is the Objection that 'all other things are never equal'.

It is rebutted by saying that the relevant things should be made equal, i.e. early marriage does not imply success on its own.

It requires other conditions

And some or all of these conditions can also be discovered. 

The reason that this can be done is because we define an ideal goal and then deduce the conditions necessary to achieve it. 

We then dictate to individuals to achieve those conditions if they desire to achieve the goal.

In any case, I also think that early marriage is not a necessary condition for a successful marriage.

I think it gives an extra reason for a successful marriage, by allowing for better unity of the family by creating it in a more formative stage.  

 

The question I would phrase is: does the marrying of two individuals at a time when their behaviour and understanding is more malleable have an advantage with respect to the maintenance and perfection of the relationship over avoiding this marriage, all other things being equal?

This question is answerable and does not require an understanding of human behaviour beyond the general facts, e.g. that youth are more likely to be malleable and age tends to diminish this. 

My point in my first post was that malleability has an advantage and a disadvantage.

The disadvantage was that it implied unpredictable weather for the relationship. 

The advantage was that it gave more time and resources for mutual growth, and thereby a stronger sense of mutual identity.

I further noted that given other behavioural conditions, the disadvantages could be tackled. 

 

In any case, I do not mean that this is the reason for early marriage, and if I did seem to insinuate it, it would be my mistake. 

I mean and should have made clear that this is just one of the benefits of early marriage that one could enumerate. 

I think what comes close to being a chief reason for early marriage is the satisfaction rather than suppression of early sexual needs, in a lawful and socially better way. 

 

(wasalam)

 

Exactly. You are right, It is important for early marriage to occur provided that the other conditions are met.  Islam doesn't say just marry anyone just because sexual desires are prevalent, rather it has a balanced approach. Fasting and other methods have been prescribed to control the desires, which must be there for a reason. Allah knows his creation and people's mindsets. As long as all the other criteria that Islam has mentioned are considered, there is nothing better than that. Furthermore, with reference to your point that you are malleable at a young age, that is true but what if there is a mismatch? malleability doesn't even matter because the very foundation of both are not on a similar level.

 

I do agree with King in that there are many divorces that occur after early marriages. Reason being that people don't focus on all the aspects necessary i.e compatibility, religiousness, maturity etc. When this isn't focused on, marriages break down. Culture also plays a huge part in this. Often people just marry their children off for the sake of it, i,e won't turn bad, will be protected etc and literally just thrown them into it. Here you go, now swim! I have known of quite a few couples whose marriages broke down and people are divorced by 23-24 years old. On top of that, the mind of a 16 year old is completely different than that of a 24 year old. hence worldview etc changes dramatically. On the other hand, if everything is considered maturity, compatibility, religiousness etc then there is a higher likelihood of the early marriage working and being successful. 

 

Abu Hadi also has points. There have been many marriages where the couples are much older, educated etc. But their marriages haven't even lasted a month. The fact is, the older you get, the harder it is to get married. Therefore sometimes, people just marry on these grounds, education, money etc. I have known of marriages not even lasting a month. On the other hand, marrying late also helped in people's marriages being successful There are advantages and disadvantages in both DEPENDING on the approach taken. The whole situation must be taken into consideration taking Allah's law into account. Sometimes people are not mature until they are 25! so marrying them at a young age to some random person may damage the prospects of it being successful.

 

The ideal marriage would be to marry at the youngest age possible providing they are mature, compatible, religious, attracted to one another and have similar life goals etc. People shouldn't deliberately delay. Having said that, there may be so many reasons why a person cannot get married as highlighted above. if ONLYY Islam was followed properly, there wouldn't be these unfortunate issues. May Allah make it easy for everyone. Ilahyameen. 

Edited by Fresh-imaan

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

Fresh

 

You ask: but what if there is a mismatch? malleability doesn't even matter because the very foundation of both are not on a similar level.

My response is twofold.

First, I am comparing early and late marriage all other things being equal.

A mismatch can occur in either of the two, so if we assume it for one, we can assume it for the other. 

However, in comparison of things in themselves, we should do away with additional assumptions and compare them by themselves.

Second, a mismatch is possible when there is already a foundation.

The greater the malleability, the less probable that there is such a foundation.

However, here is an extremely significant point: it may be that one of the sexes could delay marriage, normally the male for various social and psychological reasons, create a foundation for himself, which could then help form the malleable because much younger wife. 

This last point seems right to me, and certainly has some level of credibility, but I am not sure.

 

(wasalam)

 

Waliikumsalam wa rahmatullah Jebreil, 

 

Talk about philosophy at its highest. :). 

 

Yes, exactly, The mismatch is from both sides, therefore it wouldn't work. But what is the foundation? That has to be considered I know of people whose foundation is probably the fact that they are both of the same ethnic origin and same village. That is it. How is that enough grounds for a marriage to work? religiously speaking. That isn't good enough at all. imagine all those factors but  one is a strong sunni and the other is a strong shia?, completely different personalities? all foundations become pointless then, don't they? 

 

I agree with your last point. it may be that one of the sexes could delay marriage, normally the male for various social and psychological reasons, create a foundation for himself, which could then help form the malleable because much younger wife. But this wasn't the point I was trying to make. I meant if both were very young. 

Edited by Fresh-imaan

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Ultimately, talking about collective trends or statistics is of little practical benefit to an individual.  Few care if the "youth" in total are married, rather each person only cares if they themselves are personally married.  We are very self centered here.  I figure once somebody is successful in this regard, they just move forward and never need to look back, unless they have an inclination towards charity and pity.  While the rest of us just sit around here trying to rationalize it all, as if that makes it feel better.  We get frustrated, and extend that to everything else in life and society. 

 

I don't want to live like this anymore.

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Ultimately, talking about collective trends or statistics is of little practical benefit to an individual.  Few care if the "youth" in total are married, rather each person only cares if they themselves are personally married.  We are very self centered here.  I figure once somebody is successful in this regard, they just move forward and never need to look back, unless they have an inclination towards charity and pity.  While the rest of us just sit around here trying to rationalize it all, as if that makes it feel better.  We get frustrated, and extend that to everything else in life and society. 

 

I don't want to live like this anymore.

 

It is a general discussion, therefore things will be analysed. Of course people care, friends, family ultimately want good for you, hence would help in your search. I don't believe that at all. That is not true. I don't know what your situation is but may Allah make it easy for you. Everyone has ups and downs and we have to get through them with the belief that Allah will help us whilst trying from the ability he gave us first. 

Edited by Fresh-imaan

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Although others have a different opinion, my personal view of the matter is that meeting someone on the Internet and getting married is too much of a risk. I think it is better to meet someone in real life and know their family, too. Meeting someone on the Internet means you have not seen the other person and do not know him/her at all, and they might be completely different than what you imagine. My children will be looking for a spouse from among those who live in our community. My husband and I will see the person's behavior and all their good characteristics, and it would be easy for us to make contact with their relatives.      

 

 

Nobody chooses to do the Internet.  It's because they have little option.  Everyone would love to find somebody in real life, but most people cannot, for various reasons. 

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