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Mohammadi_follower

Kill People With Fire According To Sunni Sources

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(bismillah)

(salam)

 

"good arguments" So you use Islamophobic videos as evidence?

 

Sunni sources:

 

Abu Dawud in "Sunnan":
2667 .Narrated Hamzah al-Aslami: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) appointed him commander over a detachment. He said: I went out along with it. He (the Prophet) said: If you find so-and-so, burn him with the fire. I then turned away, and he called me. So I returned to him, and he said: If you find so-and-so, kill him, and do not burn him, for no one punishes with fire except the Lord of the fire

2669 .Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: We were with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) during a journey. He went to ease himself. We saw a bird with her two young ones and we captured her young ones. The bird came and began to spread its wings. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) came and said: Who grieved this for its young ones? Return its young ones to it. He also saw an ant village that we had burnt. He asked: Who has burnt this? We replied: We. He said: It is not proper to punish with fire except the Lord of fire. 

 

Sahih Bukhari 4.260:

Narrated `Ikrima:Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn `Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'"

 

According to authentic narration in Shia book, Ali burned people alive. 

 

حدثني محمد بن قولويه، قال حدثني سعد بن عبد الله، قال حدثنا يعقوب بن يزيد و محمد بن عيسى، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، قال : سمعت أبا عبد الله (عليه السلام) يقول و هو يحدث أصحابه بحديث عبد الله بن سبإ و ما ادعى من الربوبية في أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب، فقال إنه لما ادعى ذلك فيه استتابه أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) فأبى أن يتوب فأحرقه بالنار.
Hishaam bin Salim, who said that he heard it from Imam Aboo `Abd Allaah (AS) when he told that `Abd Allaah bin Saba called (to people) the lordship/divinity of Imaam `Alee (AS). Upon that ‘Alee ordered him to repent, but he refused. Then Ali let him burn in fire."
Source:
·         Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 107, hadeeth # 171 (http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/07/abd-allaah-bin-saba.html)

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He uses also sunni hadith who say that we must follow "right califs" and according to other sunni books quote on this video.

They did that , abu bakr and omar.

So he says it's a contradiction but some sunni books justify that.


And the hadith which you quote exist also on sunni books.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

 

"good arguments" So you use Islamophobic videos as evidence?

 

Sunni sources:

 

Abu Dawud in "Sunnan":

2667 .Narrated Hamzah al-Aslami: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) appointed him commander over a detachment. He said: I went out along with it. He (the Prophet) said: If you find so-and-so, burn him with the fire. I then turned away, and he called me. So I returned to him, and he said: If you find so-and-so, kill him, and do not burn him, for no one punishes with fire except the Lord of the fire

2669 .Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: We were with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) during a journey. He went to ease himself. We saw a bird with her two young ones and we captured her young ones. The bird came and began to spread its wings. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) came and said: Who grieved this for its young ones? Return its young ones to it. He also saw an ant village that we had burnt. He asked: Who has burnt this? We replied: We. He said: It is not proper to punish with fire except the Lord of fire. 

 

Sahih Bukhari 4.260:

Narrated `Ikrima:Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn `Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'"

 

According to authentic narration in Shia book, Ali burned people alive. 

 

حدثني محمد بن قولويه، قال حدثني سعد بن عبد الله، قال حدثنا يعقوب بن يزيد و محمد بن عيسى، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، قال : سمعت أبا عبد الله (عليه السلام) يقول و هو يحدث أصحابه بحديث عبد الله بن سبإ و ما ادعى من الربوبية في أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب، فقال إنه لما ادعى ذلك فيه استتابه أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) فأبى أن يتوب فأحرقه بالنار.

Hishaam bin Salim, who said that he heard it from Imam Aboo `Abd Allaah (AS) when he told that `Abd Allaah bin Saba called (to people) the lordship/divinity of Imaam `Alee (AS). Upon that ‘Alee ordered him to repent, but he refused. Then Ali let him burn in fire."

Source:

·         Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 107, hadeeth # 171 (http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/07/abd-allaah-bin-saba.html)

Salamalaikum

This is from a post by member Islamic salvation.

The jhatt Punjabi

حدثني الحسين بن الحسن بن بندار القمي، قال حدثني سعد بن عبد الله بن أبي خلف القمي، قال حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى و عبد الله بن محمد بن عيسى و محمد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطاب، عن الحسن بن محبوب عن صالح بن سهل، عن مسمع بن عبد الملك أبي سيار، عن رجل، عن أبي جعفر (عليه السلام) قال : إن عليا (عليه السلام) لما فرغ من قتال أهل البصرة أتاه سبعون رجلا من الزط فسلموا عليه و كلموه بلسانهم فرد عليهم بلسانهم، و قال لهم إني لست كما قلتم أنا عبد الله مخلوق، قال، فأبوا عليه و قالوا له أنت أنت هو، فقال لهم لئن لم ترجعوا عما قلتم في و تتوبوا إلى الله تعالى لأقتلنكم قال فأبوا أن يرجعوا و يتوبوا، فأمر أن تحفر لهم آبار فحفرت، ثم خرق بعضها إلى بعض ثم فرقهم فيها ثم طم رءوسها ثم ألهب النار في بئر منها ليس فيها أحد فدخل الدخان عليهم فماتوا

 

175. Narrated to me al-Husayn b. al-Hasan b. Bundar al-Qummi who said: narrated to me Sa’d b. Abdallah b. Abi Khalaf al-Qummi who said: narrated to us Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Isa and Abdallah b. Muhammad b. Isa and Muhammad b. al-Husayn b. Abi al-Khattab from al-Hasan b. Mahbub from Salih b. Sahl from Misma b. Abd al-Malik Abi Sayyar from a man from Abi Ja’far عليه السلام who said: when Ali عليه السلام had finished fighting the people of Basra (in the Battle of the Camel), seventy man from the Zutt came to him and saluted him and spoke to him in their language, so he replied to them using their own language, and said to them: I am not as you say, I am a created slave of Allah, so they refused to accept this from him - and said: you are who you are/you are Him, so he said to them: if you do not return from what you have said about me and repent to Allah - the Exalted - I will kill you, so they refused to recant and repent, so he ordered that pits be dug for them, so they were dug, then he pierced a hole in between them (connected the pits via a narrow passage), then he divided them into them (the pits), then he covered their openings (the pits), then he kindled a fire in a pit among them in which there was no one, so the smoke entered upon them (through the connecting passage) and they all died.

NOTES:

The Zutt (and Sayabija) are Jhats - people of Sindh from North West India, they were former slaves used by the Sasanians as cavalrymen, they defected to the Muslims in the conquest of Fars, they were subsequently stationed at the garrison of Basra, it is to be noted that forty of these Zutti men are said to have been guarding the Bayt al-Mal of Basra when it was attacked by the forces of Aisha, Talha and Zubayr who killed them all in their bid to cede control of it from Uthman b. Hunayf the governor of Ali over Basra. They also fought on the side of Ali against the same in the Battle of the Camel. The Hadith indicates that the death in this method was not by fire but rather suffocation by smoking, perhaps this explains the other controversial Hadith about the commander of the faithful using fire to kill

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I wonder what David Wood thinks of this:

 

What the Bible says about Burning People to Death Some crimes are so heinous that the guilty must be burned to death.

(Like when a man has sex with his wife and mother-in-law, the daughter of a priest behaves like a [Edited Out], or someone touches the accursed thing.)  

 

"If a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you." -- Leviticus 20:14

 

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the [Edited Out], she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." -- Leviticus 21:9

 

"Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by [Edited Out]dom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." -- Genesis 38:24

 

"He that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath. ... And Joshua ... took Achan ... and his sons, and his daughters ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire." -- Joshua 7:15, 24-25

 

Sometimes God burns people to death.

 

  "And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. -- Leviticus 10:1-2

 

"And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp." -- Numbers 11:1

 

"And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense." -- Numbers 16:35

 

"They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God ... For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. ... They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust." -- Deuteronomy 32:21-24

 

"Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them." -- Psalm 21:9

 

"Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame." -- Isaiah 47:13-14

 

"If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty." --2 Kings 1:10, 12  

 

"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As the vine tree among the trees of the forest, which I have given to the fire for fuel, so will I give the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And I will set my face against them; they shall go out from one fire, and another fire shall devour them; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. -- Ezekiel 15:6-7

 

"Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left." -- Isaiah 24:6

 

"And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire." -- Isaiah 33:12

 

"I will cause an alarm of war to be heard in Rabbah of the Ammonites; and it shall be a desolate heap, and her daughters shall be burned with fire." -- Jeremiah 49:2

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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It is clearly forbidden in Sunni literature to torture someone with fire. 

 

As for deeds of caliphs. Imam Malik (ra) said pointing to the grave of messenger of Allah (saws): Word (or deed) of anybody can be accepted and rejected apart from owner of this grave.

 

So it is very simple: anyone can be and should be followed as long as his stance is in the line with Quran, Sunnah, Ijmah.

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Hishaam bin Salim, who said that he heard it from Imam Aboo `Abd Allaah (AS) when he told that `Abd Allaah bin Saba called (to people) the lordship/divinity of Imaam `Alee (AS). Upon that ‘Alee ordered him to repent, but he refused. Then Ali let him burn in fire."

Source:

· Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 107, hadeeth # 171 (http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/07/abd-allaah-bin-saba.html)

Sayf bin 'Umar al-Tamimi is considered weak and a liar. Sayf is the one who invented the character ibn Saba. Even by Sunni Sources.

Salam

There were many hadiths made to destroy Ahlul Bayt's (as) character.

Edited by Finder

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Sayf bin 'Umar al-Tamimi is considered weak and a liar. Sayf is the one who invented the character ibn Saba. Even by Sunni Sources.

Salam

There were many hadiths made to destroy Ahlul Bayt's (as) character.

 

The points is how " Muslims - ( Shia and Sunni ) " will deny the blames ?

 

By saying it is weak and it is not mustanad , a non muslim will not listen. He will blame one more .. bcoz you got caught you are denying now. What to do then ?

Edited by alirex

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The points is how " Muslims - ( Shia and Sunni ) " will deny the blames ?

By saying it is weak and it is not mustanad , a non muslim will not listen. He will blame one more .. bcoz you got caught you are denying now. What to do then ?

Salam

There is no point. As muslims we are disassociating ourselves from this trash. A person does not have to listen to anything. We are simply saying this is not Islamic and the person who tried to make up this story is a liar.

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Salam

There is no point. As muslims we are disassociating ourselves from this trash. A person does not have to listen to anything. We are simply saying this is not Islamic and the person who tried to make up this story is a liar.

Walekum Assalam

 

I guess, i am not able to express my question properly. Anyways ....

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If the holy prophet SAWAS knew that burning anyone is wrong then why did he feel the urge to burn men, women and children alive in their homes? This story is found in sahih bukhari. What's worse is the women and children were innocent! What kind of Prophet is this?

Edited by goldenhawk

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If the holy prophet SAWAS knew that burning anyone is wrong then why did he feel the urge to burn men, women and children alive in their homes? This story is found in sahih bukhari. What's worse is the women and children were innocent! What kind of Prophet is this?

Was this written in Sahih Bukhari?! Can u say me which volume?

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Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is I was about to order for collecting firewood (fuel) and then order Someone to pronounce the Adhan for the prayer and then order someone to lead the prayer then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him, in Whose Hands my soul is, if anyone of them had known that he would get a bone covered with good meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would have turned up for the `Isha' prayer.'

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنَا مَالِكٌ، عَنْ أَبِي الزِّنَادِ، عَنِ الأَعْرَجِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَقَدْ هَمَمْتُ أَنْ آمُرَ بِحَطَبٍ فَيُحْطَبَ، ثُمَّ آمُرَ بِالصَّلاَةِ فَيُؤَذَّنَ لَهَا، ثُمَّ آمُرَ رَجُلاً فَيَؤُمَّ النَّاسَ، ثُمَّ أُخَالِفَ إِلَى رِجَالٍ فَأُحَرِّقَ عَلَيْهِمْ بُيُوتَهُمْ، وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَوْ يَعْلَمُ أَحَدُهُمْ أَنَّهُ يَجِدُ عَرْقًا سَمِينًا أَوْ مِرْمَاتَيْنِ حَسَنَتَيْنِ لَشَهِدَ الْعِشَاءَ ‏"‏‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari, Book of call to prayers. Hadith 644

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Salaam alaykum,

Sheikh Dr. Muhammad bin Yahya al-Hussaini al-Ninowy wrote:

 

"Burning or torturing by fire is inhumane and is impermissible in Islam against ants, let alone human beings, as per authentic Prophetic Ahadith. There are alleged narrations that the Prophet- sallallahu Ta'ala alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam-, Abu Bakr, Ali, and Khalid bin al-Walid, ordered or burned people (partly or wholly) as punishment. The narrations attributed to Sayyidina Abu Bakr and Khalid do not have an authentic chain of narrators. So we don't need to bother with this any further. The narrations implicating the Prophet-Salallahu Ta'ala alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam- and Sayyidina Ali ordering burning in one incident are both in question from a Hadith industrial academic point of view, as to authenticity. The narration implicating the Prophet -alayhi wa aalihi assalam- is in Bukhari and Muslim authentic collections of Hadith on the authority of Anas. The authenticity of Anas's narration was questioned and flat out rejected by the great Tabi' Sayyidina Ali bin al-Husayn, and the Imam of Ahlus Sunnah Sayyidina al-Imam al-Shafi'i (radiya'Allahu anhu) clearly over-weighed the rejection of Ali bin al-Husayn (Zaynul Abidin) of any such incident over Anas's solitary affirming narrative of it. Remember, that Sayyidina al-Imam al-Shafi'i is not just an Imam in Hadith, and Fiqh, but effectively the one who laid out the foundation for the ilm of Usul (Legal and foundational theory in Islam), see his encyclopedic books al-Umm and al-Risalah, for example.

The narration implicating Sayyidina Ali was narrated by Imam of Muhaddithin al-Bukhari (Rahimahu Allahu Ta'ala) in his authentic collection on the authority of Ikrimah; Ibn Abbas's Kharijite Berber servant. Similarly, it is a solitary narrative from a solitary source, namely: Ikrimah. Al-Imam al-Shafi'i , also in his great book al-Umm, rejected this narration altogether citing implicit defects (illal) in the chain of narrators that render the narration inauthentic, inadmissible, and discontinuous, as per Sayyidina al-Imam al-Shafi'i. The implicit defect (illah) does not include the personality or status of Ikrimah, i.e. passing Ikrimah as an authentic narrator, despite the known split among the scholars of Hadith about him.
In conclusion: from clear, complete, incontestable, and unambiguous evidence attributed to the Prophet, sallallahu Ta'ala alayhi wa aalihi wa azzwajihi wa sallam, in both Bukhari and Muslim's authentic collection: it is established that torture, torturing by fire, mutilation, etc.. is all HARAM (SINFUL) and impermissible. Al-Imam al-Shafi'i added: that such torture includes torture by drowning as well, as in al-Umm. Burning or torture by burning is not restricted to one form/example or another, but all forms (burning bombs, weaponry, etc.) of inflicting such pain by fire/heat on fellow living creatures are forms of torturing by burning, even if ants/insects. Islam came to heal people not hurt them, all people, regardless. Love and Mercy Heal".- Shaykh Dr. Muhammad bin Yahya al-Husayni al-Ninowy (May The Creator bless and protect him)."

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Sayf bin 'Umar al-Tamimi is considered weak and a liar. Sayf is the one who invented the character ibn Saba. Even by Sunni Sources.

Salam

There were many hadiths made to destroy Ahlul Bayt's (as) character.

(bismillah)

(salam)

 
There is no Sayf in that Shia narration I quoted. 

 

@ Goldenhawk

 

You claimed:

If the holy prophet SAWAS knew that burning anyone is wrong then why did he feel the urge to burn men, women and children alive in their homes? This story is found in sahih bukhari. What's worse is the women and children were innocent! What kind of Prophet is this?

 

Then you quoted the narration, it doesn't say children and women were burned or will be burnt:

 

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is I was about to order for collecting firewood (fuel) and then order Someone to pronounce the Adhan for the prayer and then order someone to lead the prayer then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him, in Whose Hands my soul is, if anyone of them had known that he would get a bone covered with good meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would have turned up for the `Isha' prayer.'

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنَا مَالِكٌ، عَنْ أَبِي الزِّنَادِ، عَنِ الأَعْرَجِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَقَدْ هَمَمْتُ أَنْ آمُرَ بِحَطَبٍ فَيُحْطَبَ، ثُمَّ آمُرَ بِالصَّلاَةِ فَيُؤَذَّنَ لَهَا، ثُمَّ آمُرَ رَجُلاً فَيَؤُمَّ النَّاسَ، ثُمَّ أُخَالِفَ إِلَى رِجَالٍ فَأُحَرِّقَ عَلَيْهِمْ بُيُوتَهُمْ، وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَوْ يَعْلَمُ أَحَدُهُمْ أَنَّهُ يَجِدُ عَرْقًا سَمِينًا أَوْ مِرْمَاتَيْنِ حَسَنَتَيْنِ لَشَهِدَ الْعِشَاءَ ‏"‏‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari, Book of call to prayers. Hadith 644

 

This was said regarding the hypocrites if you read other versions of the narration it will become more clear. It is just that the Prophet (saw) felt the urge but didn't do it. 

 

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "No prayer is heavier upon the hypocrites than the Fajr and the `Isha' prayers and if they knew what is in them (in reward), they would have attended them, even if (it was) crawling. Certainly, I felt the urge to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) so that he would pronounce Iqama, then order a man to lead the people (in prayer), then take a flame of fire so that I burn (the houses) upon those who had not left for the prayer yet." (Sahih al-Bukhari 657)

 

Anyways, the burning of people was explicitly declared forbidden as proven from many authentic narrations of the Prophet (saw). 

 

Also, you didn't comment about the Shia narration I quoted or are you of those Shia who behave like Quranists when someone quotes them their narrations?

 

Allah knows best.

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@ abul Hussain hassani.

It doesn't need to say specifically in the hadith which I quoted that women and children were to be burned. But if you read the Hadith again, the holy prophet SAWAS had the urge to burn down the houses of those who didn't goto the mosque. Now my question is, who lives in houses? Just the men? Or do families including children live in the homes? You need to use some common sense brother.

Edited by goldenhawk

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Salaam alaykum,

 

.............................................. So we don't need to bother with this any further. .......................................

 

 

Walekum Assalam

 

My dear brother , how to defend our self. If we was condemning hadith openly on a public platform where all religions were invited then we was having a solid proof that they rejected that kind of Hadith before and the act is later. But after the incident there is hardly any one will believe that we are right , as whenever someone throw blame on us that particular time we start rejecting that particular hadith.

 

No body is accepting muslims word as genuine anymore.

 

Once you reject a Narrator due to his character in history, or reject a hadith due to some problem .. the SECT who is treating that Narrator pious or accepted the Hadith Sahih will show there aggression or may be attack.

 

Do you have any logical solution ?

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