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In the Name of God بسم الله
Zendegi

Why Are There So Many Seyyeds In India/pakistan?

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Seyyeds in Indopak are being made even today. I know many people here who have become Seyyed from Mirasi / Miralam / faqeer castes. They do not have their lineage tree names in the usual scrolls of lineage (shijra nasab) but they have "seyyed" or "bukhari" or "jafari" on their ID cards and in government records. Whenever such migrate to a new area, be it a city or a foreign country, they get the chance to and change their caste and introduce themselves to others as "seyyed". This way there is least resistance to face.

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It is without any doubt that there people who added 'Syed' in front of their name wrongfully. But 'mirasi' or 'faqeer' may be occupations but not the so-called 'castes'. A Syed could be a mirasi or a faqeer as well.

BTW, today I see so much hatred towards anyone calling himself 'Syed' that I wonder why anyone would want to wrongfully put it in front of his name. Even I avoid using 'Syed' or 'Jafri' with my name.

The most common way to insulting anyone calling himself 'Syed' these days is to use Iqbal's famous shayr to embarras him:

yun to Syed bhi, Mirza bhi ho, Afghan bhi ho ... tum sabhi kuch ho, batao to musalman bhi ho

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1 hour ago, pehersari said:

The most common way to insulting anyone calling himself 'Syed' these days is to use Iqbal's famous shayr to embarras him:

yun to Syed bhi, Mirza bhi ho, Afghan bhi ho ... tum sabhi kuch ho, batao to musalman bhi ho

I think I can understand the gist of that all are Muslim, but could someone translate that into English, please? 

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On 12/25/2015 at 10:27 AM, hameedeh said:

I think I can understand the gist of that all are Muslim, but could someone translate that into English, please? 

 

On 12/25/2015 at 10:27 AM, hameedeh said:

yun to Syed bhi, Mirza bhi ho, Afghan bhi ho ... tum sabhi kuch ho, batao to musalman bhi ho

it from a famous poem by the poet Allama Iqbal it says :

"you take great pride at being syeds, mirzas and afghans, do you feel equally proud at being muslims?"

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18 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

I think I can understand the gist of that all are Muslim, but could someone translate that into English, please? 

 

You are so proud of your caste as to being syed, mirza, afghan... tell me r u a muslim too?

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13 hours ago, pehersari said:

The most common way to insulting anyone calling himself 'Syed' these days is to use Iqbal's famous shayr to embarras him:

yun to Syed bhi, Mirza bhi ho, Afghan bhi ho ... tum sabhi kuch ho, batao to musalman bhi ho

Or as Bulleh Shah, who was a syed himself, put it.

Jerha sanoo syed saday dozekh milay sazaiyan.

"Whoever calls me syed may he be punished with a place in hell."

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On 04/02/2015 at 4:40 AM, Zendegi said:

Is this Facebook group for just "Seyyeds" like a joke? I laughed when I read the first few rules.

 

"The Royal Bloodline group is for Sayed's only, affiliates may apply but will be screened.

Simple group rules are as follows;

1) None Sayeds: interference in our familial discussions will not be tolerated.

2) Sayeds who do not agree with the practices of the Ahlul Bait (as) - their posts will be kept only to highlight the fact that the Saadat factor in them is dying out- then they too will be deleted from the group...they are an example what NOT to be if you value your Sayed lineage.

3) We hold the FIRM view that Sayed ladies can only marry Sayed men."

These people sound like illiterate morons.

Anyway, when there is clearly so much social advantage to be gained from being a Sayyid, it's hard to believe that there wouldn't have been many fakes in the entire Indian subcontinent (which as we know, is extremely caste-conscious, even to this day). People can talk about family trees all they want, but how many of them have actually been cross-checked? Back in the day, anyone could turn up to some village with a family tree, claiming to be a Sayyid. How would anyone have been able check? It would be interesting to see a proper study done of all these family trees, across different countries, to check for consistency (maybe through some kind of internet database), but there doesn't seem to be much chance of that. I can't imagine too many Sayyids would want to risk it, just on the off-chance that it turns out their family tree isn't as solid as they thought.

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i am proud of being a yed and am not going to take he title away from my name and i believe it to be true,i dont put a syed in front of my name sure, if i am not becaue i agree that could cause confusion, but i know many seyyeds jafri naqvi taqvi, who are not ashamed but revel in being syed, also i agree with the above statement i believe one should be proud of being sayed or shia, but not be soo proud that they forget what being a muslim is about

Edited by sidnaq

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20 minutes ago, sidnaq said:

i dont care what all of you ay, i am proud of being a yed and am not going to take he title away from my name and believe it to be true,i dont put a syed in front of my name of purpose if i am not becaue i agree that could cause confusion, but i know many seyyeds jafri naqvi taqvi, who are not ashamed but revel in being syed, also i agree with the above statement i believe one should be proud of being sayed or shia, but not be soo proud that they forget what being a muslim is about

Thats quite alright. Don't worry, you will always find plenty of people who will either hate you or love you for being seyyed. Love those who love you, pray for those who hate you for it. You will find that some people will have jealousy towards seyyeds, or even towards prophets and imams. Its beyond their control. Don't let them make you feel sorry for a position from God. But always remember that this position requires suitable actions worthy of it. Thats the only advice I have on the matter. Our biggest scholars and all those saints with biggest shrines are mostly seyyeds. Let that sink in for a moment.

Perhaps its the so-called seyyeds who act like the rest of the overwhelming mass who are only muslim in name or those adhering to belief like a rat trapped by its tail are telling about the mischief made by their non-seyyed ancestors.

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On 12/25/2015 at 11:46 PM, Invoker said:

 

You are so proud of your caste as to being syed, mirza, afghan... tell me r u a muslim too?

While the word 'proud' does not appear in the original shayr, that really is implied by anyone using this shayr to mock or ridicule Syeds.

The offensive part is that as soon as these folks find out that certain person is 'Syed', they automatically assume that he is 'proud'. Iqbal feel in that same category of folks.

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the birth rate in the indian subcontinent is wayyyyy higher than that in the arab/ iranian world, and desis are much stricter about sayeds marrying sayeds than non desis. it stands to reason that more shias + less chance of marrying non sayed + higher birth rate = more sayeds then anywhere else. not exactly mindblowing how this works. 

also bear in mind that there are more desi shia in the indian sub continent than any arab country. this is not some insignificant little technicality to be sniffed at

I dont doubt that there are fake sayeds, however my personal belief is to respect everyone unless they give me reason not to. if someone claims to be sayed but isnt, they will be exposed immediately as frauds, being a true sayed cannot be hidden. when you see "sadaat" drinking, clubbing doing drugs, sleeping around etc, you dont have to ask if they are real sayyeds or analyse their family tree. 

a lot of this attitude is simply a way for people to be subtly racist if they are not desi as another excuse to mock desis, and a chance for self-hating desis who beg being arab/ iranian to show how much they hate their own people

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On 1/3/2016 at 9:02 AM, pehersari said:

The offensive part is that as soon as these folks find out that certain person is 'Syed', they automatically assume that he is 'proud'..

While I generally laugh off  all claims to respect on the basis of one's bloodline, sometimes I feel it goes off in the wrong direction. Just because a person has Syed or Rizvi/Naqvi or whatever with his name, doesn't mean he's demanding that you bow down to him. 

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1 hour ago, Brained said:

While I generally laugh off  all claims to respect on the basis of one's bloodline, sometimes I feel it goes off in the wrong direction. Just because a person has Syed or Rizvi/Naqvi or whatever with his name, doesn't mean he's demanding that you bow down to him. 

we respect the line, not the person

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On 04/01/2016 at 3:54 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

the birth rate in the indian subcontinent is wayyyyy higher than that in the arab/ iranian world, and desis are much stricter about sayeds marrying sayeds than non desis. it stands to reason that more shias + less chance of marrying non sayed + higher birth rate = more sayeds then anywhere else. not exactly mindblowing how this works. 

also bear in mind that there are more desi shia in the indian sub continent than any arab country. this is not some insignificant little technicality to be sniffed at

The birthrate would be a factor, although it would have to be shown that it was always higher, rather than just in modern times. Inter-Sayyid marriage makes no difference however, because regardless of who a Sayyid man marries, his kids will be Sayyids. Sayyid women are completely irrelevant to how many Sayyids there are in the next generation.

What really needs to be done is for a study to be made of the migration of Sayyids in former times to see how many moved to the Indian subcontinent. From that, estimates could be made of how many we should expect to have today. Even better would be DNA tests of course. If they can do it for Gengis Khan, then why not for Sayyids? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_from_Genghis_Khan#DNA_evidence

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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