Sunnism In Iran & Mistreatment Of Iranian Sunnis

[MohammadMianSunni]

Assalamualaykum,

I am a Sunni Muslim Pakistani of the Hanafi Madhab. I had originally signed up for Sunni Forum a while ago, but I did not get a confirmation email from them. Anyway, I have a couple of inquiries about Sunnis in Iran and Shiaism in general. From what I have heard from Iranian Sunnis of Persian origin living in my neighbourhood in Canada, I have gotten the impression that the Islamic Republic of Iran severely oppressed the Sunni population. I have also come to know that the Shias of Iran are not even religious due to the country's strict Islamic laws. As many as 90% of all Shias living in Iran are non-religious, and many have become murtads and followers of Christianity, agnosticism, Zoroastrianism, and Atheism. A few have even converted to Sunnism. The majority of what I know is based on what I have read from the Sons of Sunnah website, which is a Sunni Iranian website. Also, I have read about how Iranian Shiism is like Zoroastrianism, and has Zoroastrian influences such as Nowruz, Omar Koshan etc. Now, I have nothing against Shias, and I have a lot of respect for Ahlul Bayt. Furthermore, I do not consider Muawiyya a righteous dude based on what I have read about him from Sunni sources. However, I have seen some strange things about Shiaism on Rafidi Terminator's YouTube channel, and some of the stuff has shocked me. Adding on, I have a couple of Iranian Shia friends, who are practicing Muslims, but not hardcore Shias. In fact, a friend of mine who came to Canada two years ago has told me that living here has changed his perspectives about Islam, and he is no longer as religious as he used to be. Could someone please answer my inquiries, especially about the oppressive nature of Iran's regime towards Sunnis. Thank you, I just joined these forums today.

[sayedzeeshan]

I saw a documentary by presstv on life of Sunnis in Iran on youtube. Although it is an official channel and I didn't like the documentary much but it gives some insight into the life of Sunnis in Iran.

Edited January 24, 2015 by sayedzeeshan

[shadow_of_light]

1.As many as 90% of all Shias living in Iran are non-religious, and many have become murtads and followers of Christianity, agnosticism, Zoroastrianism, and Atheism........90%???!!!!This is completely wrong. Most people, in my opinion, are half-religious. And by the way, you cannot say someone is religious or not just by seeing his/ her appearance.

2.Also, I have read about how Iranian Shiism is like Zoroastrianism, and has Zoroastrian influences such as Nowruz, Omar Koshan etc....Again wrong. Noruz is just a cultural event and it has also been influenced by some Islamic beliefs. For example, people put Quran in their "haft-seen" tables and utter an Islamic Arabic prayer as soon as the new year begins and go to their relatives' homes to visit them and as you know, Islam emphasizes the importance of "seleye rahem". As to Omarkoshun, it is only practiced by a group of deviated people who are a small minority and follow Ayatollah Sadegh Shirazi and this hateful event is banned by the government and other shia marjas and moreover, the majority of shias here, dislike it.

Edited January 24, 2015 by shadow_of_light

[Hameedeh]

Someone posted this video before. An international journalist went to Iran to investigate how the Sunnis live.

 

Sunnis in Iran (How Sunni Muslims live in a Shiite country?)

 

 

 

[Sumerian]

#1 rule - Don't believe in PressTV propaganda.

As to Omarkoshun, it is only practiced by a group of deviated people who are a small minority and follow Ayatollah Sadegh Shirazi and this hateful event is banned by the government and other shia marjas and moreover, the majority of shias here, dislike it.

It's foolish when you called them deviated, atleast they don't follow Ibn Arabi. Anyhow, the celebration of Farhat az-Zahraa` has been mentioned in our sources - and not only followed by the followers of Shirazi, but also the ones that follow Rouhani. I'd like you to name me one Shia marja` outside of Iran which has explicitly banned it. Edited January 24, 2015 by Revolving Ace

[Saintly_Jinn23]

#1 rule - Don't believe in PressTV propaganda.

It's foolish when you called them deviated, atleast they don't follow the deviant zindeeq Ibn Arabi لعنه الله. Anyhow, the celebration of Farhat az-Zahraa` has been mentioned in our sources - and not only followed by the followers of Shirazi, but also the ones that follow Rouhani. I'd like you to name me one Shia marja` outside of Iran which has explicitly banned it.

 

That doc is pretty accurate for the most part, except that it ignores the Arab Sunnis.

[Khalilallah]

Salam

 

Dear Brother, I am calling you brother whilst we are called all kinds of names by Sunnis.

 

It seems that you have only learned about Shias from Sunnis and Salafis/Wahabis. Would it be fair if I learn Islam from an Islamophobe? No because that view would be biased, so please judge Shia Islam based on what you read from our books and what you ask from our Scholars, not based on what some Shia haters say.

[Sumerian]

Don't believe the anti-Shia propaganda sites.

[shadow_of_light]

@revolving ace

 

I called them deviated because their behavior is unislamic and unethical and what they do is in contrast to what Quran and our Imams  say. Quran recommends us not to insult even those who are mushrik. What do you think of people whose behavior is against what Quranic verses and Ahl-e Bait recommend?!

[alirex]

@revolving ace

 

I called them deviated because their behavior is unislamic and unethical and what they do is in contrast to what Quran and our Imams  say. Quran recommends us not to insult even those who are mushrik. What do you think of people whose behavior is against what Quranic verses and Ahl-e Bait recommend?!

Here we have to understand meaning of Insult first then.

 

He is wrong - it can be insult for someone due to Ego. Same like we are feeling insult when someone is saying they believe Imam Ali (as) as God, or parallel to Rasool Allah (pbuh) or above Rasool Allah (pbuh) ... is this not Insult ? They are blame on us.

 

But bcoz we are Habitual now bcoz every second Anti-Shia have that believe that Shia are doing this and that, so we are not taking it as Insult.

 

So if we are saying " We don't follow Umar " they feel Insult for Umar.

 

Now tell me what is Insult and what is not ?

 

Curse is prohibited that already everyone knows , even Anti-Shia knows it.

Edited January 24, 2015 by alirex

[shadow_of_light]

Here,by insulting, I mean using filthy words.

[strength=Abbas]

Most of Sunnis live in border cities in Iran and exactly I can say all cities near borders are Sunnism. They re free a loooot. Even an Iranian Mufti said that they say speech in Jum'a prayer freer than Arabian Sunni countries and they can say ALL things they want in their speech!

even there are streets in these cities which named Hz Omar and Hz Abu Bakr

I m sure Sunnis are soooo free there! I,as a Shia,when go there, see how much they are free

[maes]

Sunnies do not lie. Those who have said these lies to you are either betrayers who has escaped from Iran or an extremist Wahhabi ! or at least an unaware person.

Sunni-Shia issue is a western propaganda. Do you really think Iran which is supporting groups like Hamas and it also supported Sunni groups in Afghanistan and ..... is oppressing it's own citizens !

Sectarianism has no root in Iran.

Yes, some Sunnies are living near borders, and unfortunately because of terrorism these borders are not secure enough, and those cities may not be improved enough.

You as a Pakistanian, should know that how they are doing this divide and conquer policy in Pakistan too, by media by puppets of colonialists and Saudies. Sometimes we see that terrorist attacks are done in Pakistan too.

Sectarianism belongs to those who says whoever kills 5 Shias, he would go to heaven near Muhammad PBUH.

There are many propaganda against Iran.

When I go to western forums they say Iran is executing homosexuals ! they show pictures of hanged terrorists and drug trafficers and claim these are killed because of homosexuality !!!

When I go to Sunni forums they show the same pictures and say these are executed because of being Sunni !!!

 

The big question is that, are those western and eastern powers who have killed many many Sunnies, worried for Sunnies in Iran and Syria or Iraq !?

Sunnies have their own parliament members and their own rights. It is not written in the identification card of anybody whether he is a Sunni or Shia !

You say 90 percent of Iranians are secular, but the truth is that more than 90 prcent of Iranians voted for establishment of Islamic republic !

You can find people who may have loose beliefs or they are unaware.

Truth is that Iran with all it's shortcomings and goodnesses is really popular. If it was not because of support of people ( Shia,Sunni, Secular) it would collapse easilly.

They (USA, UK, Israel and Saudies) want to enter sectariansim and internal wars in Iran too.

Edited January 24, 2015 by maes

[A true Sunni]

Assalamualaykum,

I am a Sunni Muslim Pakistani of the Hanafi Madhab. I had originally signed up for Sunni Forum a while ago, but I did not get a confirmation email from them. Anyway, I have a couple of inquiries about Sunnis in Iran and Shiaism in general. From what I have heard from Iranian Sunnis of Persian origin living in my neighbourhood in Canada, I have gotten the impression that the Islamic Republic of Iran severely oppressed the Sunni population. I have also come to know that the Shias of Iran are not even religious due to the country's strict Islamic laws. As many as 90% of all Shias living in Iran are non-religious, and many have become murtads and followers of Christianity, agnosticism, Zoroastrianism, and Atheism. A few have even converted to Sunnism. The majority of what I know is based on what I have read from the Sons of Sunnah website, which is a Sunni Iranian website. Also, I have read about how Iranian Shiism is like Zoroastrianism, and has Zoroastrian influences such as Nowruz, Omar Koshan etc. Now, I have nothing against Shias, and I have a lot of respect for Ahlul Bayt. Furthermore, I do not consider Muawiyya a righteous dude based on what I have read about him from Sunni sources. However, I have seen some strange things about Shiaism on Rafidi Terminator's YouTube channel, and some of the stuff has shocked me. Adding on, I have a couple of Iranian Shia friends, who are practicing Muslims, but not hardcore Shias. In fact, a friend of mine who came to Canada two years ago has told me that living here has changed his perspectives about Islam, and he is no longer as religious as he used to be. Could someone please answer my inquiries, especially about the oppressive nature of Iran's regime towards Sunnis. Thank you, I just joined these forums today.

 

Why is it that whenever i hear about the 'poor oppressed Sunnis' in Iran it is always by the Indian Sub-Continent Sunnis. Arab Sunnis by and large keep quiet they are to busy oppressing their own populations. However funding terrorists groups is OK.

 

Most Arabs see Indian Sub-Continent Sunnis as cannon fodder. The unthinking unquestioning foot soldiers who rush forward without thinking why the 'generals' sit safely.

 

Iran is 90% Shia . So 90% of 90% is 81%. So according to your 'friends' 91% (81% irreligeous Shia and remaining 10%) are oppressed by the 9%.

 

As I said foolish cannon fodder 

[Sumerian]

@revolving ace

 

I called them deviated because their behavior is unislamic and unethical and what they do is in contrast to what Quran and our Imams  say. Quran recommends us not to insult even those who are mushrik. What do you think of people whose behavior is against what Quranic verses and Ahl-e Bait recommend?!

Weak response because in an authentic hadeeth the Prophet Muhanmad صلى الله عليه و اله tells us to INSULT Ahlul Bid`ah after him! As for the Holy Qur`anic verses, it's not a mutlaq prohinition, but a prophibition by Qayd! You wouldn't know this stuff.

Don't call anyone deviant, it's basically takfeer.

[shadow_of_light]

In which hadith does the Prophet(s) tell us to insult ahl-e bida? If by insult, you mean saying offensive words, then it is forbidden in Islam. Imam Ali(a) also recommends his soldiers not to abuse their enemies verbally but instead remind their wrong deeds. There is another hadith which says paradise is forbidden to people who curse (or maybe indulge in cursing) and that Allah doesn't like such people.

 

You aksed me not to call anyone deviant because it is takfeer but you yourself called Rumi deviant in another topic! And by the way, takfeer means calling someone kafir and I didn't do it. I am not saying they are kafir but that they are in a wrong path and I said it based on Quranic verses and Ahadith.

6/108:

And do nut insult those who invoke other than Allah lest they insult Allah in their enmity without knowledge.

 

Disregarding ethical reasons for not insulting, when your behavior is offensive to sunnis or you curse their caliphs, they will do the same and curse our Imams.

[Sumerian]

Firstly, the hadeeth is here -

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي نَصْرٍ عَنْ دَاوُدَ بْنِ سِرْحَانَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ص إِذَا رَأَيْتُمْ أَهْلَ الرَّيْبِ وَ الْبِدَعِ مِنْ بَعْدِي فَأَظْهِرُوا الْبَرَاءَةَ مِنْهُمْ وَ أَكْثِرُوا مِنْ سَبِّهِمْ وَ الْقَوْلَ فِيهِمْ وَ الْوَقِيعَةَ وَ بَاهِتُوهُمْ كَيْلَا يَطْمَعُوا فِي الْفَسَادِ فِي الْإِسْلَامِ وَ يَحْذَرَهُمُ النَّاسُ وَ لَا يَتَعَلَّمُوا مِنْ بِدَعِهِمْ يَكْتُبِ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ بِذَلِكَ الْحَسَنَاتِ وَ يَرْفَعْ لَكُمْ بِهِ الدَّرَجَاتِ فِي الْآخِرَةِ

The Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: “When you will find people of bid`ah (innovation) and doubt/suspicion after me, do baraa’ (disassociation) from them and increase in your INSULTS (sabihim) to them, and oppose (them) and bring evidences against them so they may not become greedy in bringing fasaad (corruption) to Islam. You must warn people against them and do not learn their bid`ah (innovation). Allah will write for you hasanaat (good deeds) for this, and will raise you darajaat (levels) in the next life.’”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 2, ch. 159, pg. 375, hadeeth # 4

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 11, pg. 77

Secondly, calling someone a deviant (munharif) is saying that he has deviated fron the Holy Qur`aan and Sunnah (of Ahlulbayt) - this is akin to takfeer because you're saying they're following a different path of Islaam - i.e, they're out of the folds of Tashayu`.

Thirdly, in regards to the insults upon Imam Ali (a.s)'s enemies, bring me authentic proof that this happened. And secondly, even if we take it as authentic, it was not a prohibition :)

Thirdly, like I said, it is prohibited by Qayd, not Mutlaqan - by the Holy Qur`aan, for example, if your insulting of their idols will cause them to insult Allaah.

Finally, top it off with Khoei's opinion -

Aspect #1: It is proven (solid) in the narrations, supplications, ziyaraat the permissibility of cursing the opponent and the necessity of dissociation from them and the increase of insulting (sabb) upon them..

Aspect #4: ..Rather insulting them and cursing them in all places and regions...Rather in al-Jawahir that is is permissible like it is from the necessities [of religion].

Edited January 25, 2015 by Revolving Ace

[shadow_of_light]

I dont have enough time for a long discussion so I will respond briefly.

 

As to the hadith you mentioned:

 

Scholars have different opinions about the meaning of "باهتوا". This is what Allameh Majlesi said:

 

« و الظاهر أن المراد بالمباهتة إلزامهم بالحجج القاطعة و جعلهم متحیرین و یحتمل أن یکون من البهتان للمصلحة»(مرآة العقول فی شرح أخبار آل الرسول، ج‏11، ص: 81)

 

Even if the word means insulting, which I personally dont believe so, we cannot conclude from one single hadith that insulting them is allowed in Islam (Ay. Brujerdi also mentioned it).

 

If by the word باهتوا you mean saing rude words or telling lies about them, it is totally forbidden in Islam. And of course a true muslim doesnt need to be rude or tell lie to prove his beliefs.

 

As to the verse, even if there is any "qaid", we know that some sunnis will insult our Imams (esp. Imam Mahdi, because they really dont believe him) if they see us insulting their caliphs. So, the verse was quite relevant to this subject.

 

As to Imam Ali's advice, it is in Nahj-al-Balagha:

 

اني أكره أن تكونوا سبابين، و لكنكم لو وصفتم أعمالهم و ذكرتم حالهم كان أصوب في القول و أبلغ في العذر

 

 

And this is what Quran says in another surah:

 

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ كُونُواْ قَوَّامِينَ لِلّهِ شُهَدَاء بِالْقِسْطِ وَلاَ يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَآنُ قَوْمٍ عَلَى أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ اعْدِلُواْ هُوَ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَى وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ إِنَّ اللّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ

 

Dont you agree that what Quran says is more reliable than  what 1 single hadith says?

[alirex]

Op doubt is clear or not ? I am curious to see his reaction after so many post. Or i will start assuming something else and write a big note ?

Edited January 25, 2015 by alirex

[Sumerian]

I dont have enough time for a long discussion so I will respond briefly.

As to the hadith you mentioned:

Scholars have different opinions about the meaning of "باهتوا". This is what Allameh Majlesi said:

« و الظاهر أن المراد بالمباهتة إلزامهم بالحجج القاطعة و جعلهم متحیرین و یحتمل أن یکون من البهتان للمصلحة»(مرآة العقول فی شرح أخبار آل الرسول، ج‏11، ص: 81)

Even if the word means insulting, which I personally dont believe so, we cannot conclude from one single hadith that insulting them is allowed in Islam (Ay. Brujerdi also mentioned it).

If by the word باهتوا you mean saing rude words or telling lies about them, it is totally forbidden in Islam. And of course a true muslim doesnt need to be rude or tell lie to prove his beliefs.

As to the verse, even if there is any "qaid", we know that some sunnis will insult our Imams (esp. Imam Mahdi, because they really dont believe him) if they see us insulting their caliphs. So, the verse was quite relevant to this subject.

As to Imam Ali's advice, it is in Nahj-al-Balagha:

اني أكره أن تكونوا سبابين، و لكنكم لو وصفتم أعمالهم و ذكرتم حالهم كان أصوب في القول و أبلغ في العذر

And this is what Quran says in another surah:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ كُونُواْ قَوَّامِينَ لِلّهِ شُهَدَاء بِالْقِسْطِ وَلاَ يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَآنُ قَوْمٍ عَلَى أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ اعْدِلُواْ هُوَ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَى وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ إِنَّ اللّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ

Dont you agree that what Quran says is more reliable than what 1 single hadith says?

Are you serious? Baahitu is not the word! It is Sabihim!

سَبِّهِمْ Read the Hadeeth again!

Secondly, I am not in support of public insulting, I'm just proving insulting is halaal.

Thirdly, Nahj ul-Balagha is not fully authentic and Imam Ali (a.s) says "Inee Akrah" - I discourage/hate. Anyways, the hadeeth I mentioned is absolutely AUTHENTIC.

Holy Qur`aan -

Likens to Cattle -

Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path [25:44]

Likens to donkeyss -

The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah: and Allah guides not people who do wrong. [62:5]

Edited January 25, 2015 by Revolving Ace

[MohammadMianSunni]

Woah! I did not know that my post would garner so much attention. Thanks for replying to my post guys, as it is always great to hear different perspectives on issues. Anyway, recently I was watching some films on Rafidi Terminator and what I saw shocked me. Firstly, Sheikh Yasser Al Habib makes a mockery of the Shiite faith, as he does not know what he's talking about half of the time. Also, he has insulted prominent Shiite figures such as Hassan Nasarallah, Ayatollah Sistani, Ayatollah Khamenei, and many other high ranking Shiite clergymen. Secondly, I have a seen a video in which an Iranian singer by the name of Haydar is chanting slogans like "Fatima is god", "Ali is god", "Muhammad is god" etc. What's up with this? Thirdly, I saw an episode where a high ranking Shiite Marja was mentioning the corruption of the Shiite clergy in Iran, and this was also touched upon by another cleric of Iraqi origin. Fourthly, I saw videos in which Shia men were slicing their backs and bleeding profusely. Not only that, but they were also inflicted open wounds to their toddlers. Fourthly, I have seen evidence of high ranking Ayatollahs declaring that the Imamate is at a higher level than Naboowat. Fifthly, I saw videos in which Shias were crawling on their backs in the city of Karbala. Seventhly, I saw a video of Shiites dancing at a Imambargah on the day of Omar Koshan. Of course I don't consider whatever I see on the internet to be 100% true, but what I saw on that channel has been quite disturbing to me. I do want to learn more about Shias from SHIAS, so could you please help me understand what I saw in those videos, and why those people were behaving as if they were from another planet. Thank you dear brothers and sisters. Remember, I do not hold any ill will towards Shiites, as I just want to learn more about the Shiite faith. I am not like other Sunni, I respect Muslims of all different backgrounds (Well not unless they are some deviant sect such as Ahmadi, Ismaili, Bektashi, Bohras, Druze, Bahai, Alevis, Alawis etc).

[MohammadMianSunni]

I dont have enough time for a long discussion so I will respond briefly.

As to the hadith you mentioned:

Scholars have different opinions about the meaning of "باهتوا". This is what Allameh Majlesi said:

« و الظاهر أن المراد بالمباهتة إلزامهم بالحجج القاطعة و جعلهم متحیرین و یحتمل أن یکون من البهتان للمصلحة»(مرآة العقول فی شرح أخبار آل الرسول، ج‏11، ص: 81)

Even if the word means insulting, which I personally dont believe so, we cannot conclude from one single hadith that insulting them is allowed in Islam (Ay. Brujerdi also mentioned it).

If by the word باهتوا you mean saing rude words or telling lies about them, it is totally forbidden in Islam. And of course a true muslim doesnt need to be rude or tell lie to prove his beliefs.

As to the verse, even if there is any "qaid", we know that some sunnis will insult our Imams (esp. Imam Mahdi, because they really dont believe him) if they see us insulting their caliphs. So, the verse was quite relevant to this subject.

As to Imam Ali's advice, it is in Nahj-al-Balagha:

اني أكره أن تكونوا سبابين، و لكنكم لو وصفتم أعمالهم و ذكرتم حالهم كان أصوب في القول و أبلغ في العذر

And this is what Quran says in another surah:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ كُونُواْ قَوَّامِينَ لِلّهِ شُهَدَاء بِالْقِسْطِ وَلاَ يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَآنُ قَوْمٍ عَلَى أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ اعْدِلُواْ هُوَ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَى وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ إِنَّ اللّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ

Dont you agree that what Quran says is more reliable than what 1 single hadith says?

Nice! Looks like the Shiites are not as barbaric as Rafidi Tetminator portrays them to be.

[MohammadMianSunni]

I saw a documentary by presstv on life of Sunnis in Iran on youtube. Although it is an official channel and I didn't like the documentary much but it gives some insight into the life of Sunnis in Iran.

I saw it too! I've been doing research on this topic for quite some while now.

[MohammadMianSunni]

Someone posted this video before. An international journalist went to Iran to investigate how the Sunnis live.

Sunnis in Iran (How Sunni Muslims live in a Shiite country?)

Seen that, are you Iranian? Can I get an Iranian to reply for once. Are there any Iranians on this site?

[MohammadMianSunni]

#1 rule - Don't believe in PressTV propaganda.

It's foolish when you called them deviated, atleast they don't follow Ibn Arabi. Anyhow, the celebration of Farhat az-Zahraa` has been mentioned in our sources - and not only followed by the followers of Shirazi, but also the ones that follow Rouhani. I'd like you to name me one Shia marja` outside of Iran which has explicitly banned it.

Why are you so seen to support this practice? It's barbaric, and I don't think that the Imams of Ahlul Bayt would approve of it. Ahlul Bayt were known as being peaceful in the face of oppression, but what I'm seeing is that you are defending this absurd practice.

Just go here to see what I am referring to; http://iranian.com/main/2010/oct/man-dressed-woman-dances-mosque.html

Why is that man dressed as a women?!?!

[MohammadMianSunni]

Salam

Dear Brother, I am calling you brother whilst we are called all kinds of names by Sunnis.

It seems that you have only learned about Shias from Sunnis and Salafis/Wahabis. Would it be fair if I learn Islam from an Islamophobe? No because that view would be biased, so please judge Shia Islam based on what you read from our books and what you ask from our Scholars, not based on what some Shia haters say.

This is exactly why I have come here. I want to get rid of these stupid misconceptions about the Shiite, they are just misconceptions, right?

[MohammadMianSunni]

Don't believe the anti-Shia propaganda sites.

Who said I did? LOL! They are pretty convincing though, TBH!

[MohammadMianSunni]

@revolving ace

I called them deviated because their behavior is unislamic and unethical and what they do is in contrast to what Quran and our Imams say. Quran recommends us not to insult even those who are mushrik. What do you think of people whose behavior is against what Quranic verses and Ahl-e Bait recommend?!

Agreed!

[MohammadMianSunni]

Here we have to understand meaning of Insult first then.

He is wrong - it can be insult for someone due to Ego. Same like we are feeling insult when someone is saying they believe Imam Ali (as) as God, or parallel to Rasool Allah (pbuh) or above Rasool Allah (pbuh) ... is this not Insult ? They are blame on us.

But bcoz we are Habitual now bcoz every second Anti-Shia have that believe that Shia are doing this and that, so we are not taking it as Insult.

So if we are saying " We don't follow Umar " they feel Insult for Umar.

Now tell me what is Insult and what is not ?

Curse is prohibited that already everyone knows , even Anti-Shia knows it.

Saying "We don't know Umar" is not an insult. Whoever thinks that that's an insult is an idiot, some Sunnis are misguided anyway so don't mind them. Sunnis don't think that you believe that Hazrat Ali RA is a god, most Sunnis believe that, and those that do are just ignorant. However, many attack Shiaism because of their belief that the Imams were infallible and that the Imams had the knowledge of the unknown when Allah clearly states that the he did not even give the prophet knowledge of the unknown. That is why I think that Sunnis don't like Shiites.

[MohammadMianSunni]

In which hadith does the Prophet(s) tell us to insult ahl-e bida? If by insult, you mean saying offensive words, then it is forbidden in Islam. Imam Ali(a) also recommends his soldiers not to abuse their enemies verbally but instead remind their wrong deeds. There is another hadith which says paradise is forbidden to people who curse (or maybe indulge in cursing) and that Allah doesn't like such people.

You aksed me not to call anyone deviant because it is takfeer but you yourself called Rumi deviant in another topic! And by the way, takfeer means calling someone kafir and I didn't do it. I am not saying they are kafir but that they are in a wrong path and I said it based on Quranic verses and Ahadith.

6/108:

And do nut insult those who invoke other than Allah lest they insult Allah in their enmity without knowledge.

Disregarding ethical reasons for not insulting, when your behavior is offensive to sunnis or you curse their caliphs, they will do the same and curse our Imams.

No we won't do the same to your Imams because we love the imams. Anyway, we only believe in four legitimate Caliphs, which are Abu Bakr RA, Umar RA, Uthman RA, and Ali RA. We would never curse the family of the prophet, and we do not believe that Amir Muawiyya was superior to Hazrat Ali RA. No Sunni in their right mind would believe that. The interesting thing is that many Sunnis consider the Shiites to be Ahle Bida. So it's funny that you mentioned that. The Unmayads, Abbasids, Ottomans etc., were not legitimate caliphs, as they functioned more like a monarchy.

[Hameedeh]

Seen that, are you Iranian? Can I get an Iranian to reply for once. Are there any Iranians on this site?

 

My husband is Iranian, so I'm Iranian by marriage. :) 

[shadow_of_light]

Revolving Ace;

 

If by "سب" you mean cursing, then it is in contradiction with the verse which says لاتسبوا. Your narration says "curse a lot" while Quran says "don't curse" (As to "qaid", I already explained it).

 

As I mentioned earlier, you cannot issue a "hukm" (rule) from 1 single narration (which is also in sharp contrast with other narrations). This is what shia scholars say.

 

As to Nahj-al Balagha, how can one Imam detest cursing and ask his followers not to curse while the other Imam encourage them to curse? This is another contradiction. And why didn't the Prophet (s) and Imams(a) themselves behave in this way?! Why didn't they celebrate Omarkoshun or hold similar feasts? In fact, they tried, as much as possible, to guide their opponents through their good deeds and behaviours. Note that saying, for example, "O God, send la'nat on our enemies" isn't rude but it means asking God to punish their enemies for their crimes.

 

The words and poems said by Omarkoshun participants are not comparable to, for example, the word cattle in the verse you posted. They are much worse. For example, they call sunnis "bas..rd" which is very offensive. Isnt calling someone "bas...rd) (which means accusing his parents of adultery) without having reliable strong evidence considered a "fisq" according to Quran/ surah Nour?

 

 

You said that you are not in support of public insulting. But when you insult in private while everyone knows what you say and everyone knows that you celebrate Omarkoshun on that day, then it is not different from public insulting.

 

Furthermore, what is the benefit of insulting? Can you really mention just one benefit of insulting? If you want to show that they are doing wrong, you can talk about their bad deeds. There is no need to curse or insult. It has only negative outcomes and no positive aspect. By insulting and cursing, you will make sunnis hate shias more and therefore, more lives will be in danger.

 

A believer should respect himself and control his tongue. There are also another narrations which I may post here later.

 

As you know, there are 4 sources for issuing religious hukms:1-Quran 2- Sunnah 3- aql 4- اجماع

The first 3 ones don't approve of cursing, and as the forth one, at least here, the majority of scholars like A. Khamenei, A. Makarem Shirazi, A. Sanei and many others believe that it is haram to celebrate Omarkoshun or hold such feasts.

[shadow_of_light]

Surah Mozammel:

 

And be patient over what they say and avoid them with gracious avoidance

 

This is what Quran expects the prophet (s) to behave while facing his enemies.

 

Surah 3:

 

So by mercy from Allah , [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah . Indeed, Allah loves those who rely [upon Him].

 

Surah Taha:

Go, both of you, to Pharaoh. Indeed, he has transgressed. And speak to him with gentle speech that perhaps he may be reminded or fear [ Allah ]."

Imam Hassan Askari (a):

 

قُولُوا لِلنّاسِ كُلِّهُم حُسنا مُؤمِنِهُم وَ مُخالِفِهُم، أمّا المؤمِنونَ فَيَبسُطُ لَهُم وَجهَهُ وَ أمّا المُخالِفونَ فَيُكَلِّمُهُم بِالمُداراةِ لاِجتِذابِهِم اِلىَ اليمانِ. فَاِنِ استَتَرَ مِن ذلِكَ بِكفِّ شُرورِهم عَن نَفسِهِ وَ عَن اِخوانِهِ المُؤمِنينَ

Firstly, Sheikh Yasser Al Habib makes a mockery of the Shiite faith, as he does not know what he's talking about half of the time. Secondly, I have a seen a video in which an Iranian singer by the name of Haydar is chanting slogans like "Fatima is god", "Ali is god", "Muhammad is god" etc. What's up with this?

 

They are deviants.

Fourthly, I saw videos in which Shia men were slicing their backs and bleeding profusely. Not only that, but they were also inflicted open wounds to their toddlers.

It is called tatbir and many scholars have banned it. It has no root in shia faith. There is no logical or religious reason for doing it. And in Iran it is completely forbidden.

[strength=Abbas]

I m Iranian and I just said what I saw in those cities

[shadow_of_light]

Fifthly, I saw videos in which Shias were crawling on their backs in the city of Karbala. Seventhly, I saw a video of Shiites dancing at a Imambargah on the day of Omar Koshan.

You forgot the "sixthly" one.

 

They are going wrong. Our scholars have banned it. Omarkoshun is also illegal. Most people dont crawl or hold Omarkoshun feast. As I said previously, a small minority do it.