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In the Name of God بسم الله

Women And Equality In Islam

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So a man is allowed to divorce for not loving a woman anymore, but a woman can't? Also, are you sure hating the husband is good enough reason to divorce in Islamic court?

Allowed, yes, but it is a detestable thing. If the "Islamic Court" really is Islamic, hating the husband is valid reason for divorce.

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This is from wikipedia

 


 

Khula

Main article: Khula

Khula is the right of a woman in Islam to seek a divorce or separation from her husband.A Muslim woman may petition a qadi, or in non-Islamic areas an Islamic community panel, to grant her divorce if the husband refuses. The waiting period (iddah) of a woman who seeks a divorce is one menstrual cycle or one month if she is post-menopauseal, i.e. ceased menstruating. This is to ensure she is not pregnant.[27] If the woman is pregnant, then the waiting period is until she gives birth.

 

Women's right to initiate divorce is very limited compared with that of men. According to shari'a law, there are two reasons for a wife to be divorced: when she can prove that the husband did not have intercourse with her for more than two months or if the husband does not provide her with what she needs for living such as food and shelter.While men can divorce their spouses easily, women face legal and financial obstacles.[28][29] For example, in many cases the woman must repay her dowry and marriage expenses. In general she also has to forfeit child custody, if the child is older than seven years. Even if she gets child custody, she has to give it to the father, when the child reaches the age of seven.[28][29]
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We have our brains, our choice and we should know what is good, what is not. Personally i think some of things like not sleeping with someone before marriage, not meeting boys/girls, not going to clubs, not drinking and smoking are good. I agree with that in 100% but everyone should be punished in the same way. My iraqi friend talks to me alot about that. She says she loves to talk to me because she feels i understand her because im from a different culture. Well, its true but i don't understand the answer: "because he is a man!" "Okay, so why he can back to home late but a woman can't?" "Because he is a man!" " Why none would beat him if someone will see him talking with girls?" "Because he is a man!" To make it clear i don't even like to go out but its just about the fact. :P MAN- the king? The most important person in this world? To be honest, i could obey my man if:

-he is more mature and has more experience

- i trust him

- i know he wants to protect me

- he is not a hypocrite and doesn't treat me like a slave just because im a woman

- he is smart and he knows that i have my opinion as well.

I know i don't need to understand other's cultures because i look at it from my european view but the thing i want to understand is why this culture is more important than islam and why when i try to talk about it there is just one answer: because he is a man.. They don't know the answer, they just follow it so why i should know it.

I just feel so sorry for some women because they don't know their rights and im also full of respect because even if their husbands are bad, they don't divorce (some does) them.

 

The world has always been like this... culture has always been considered more important than religion. Why are you surprised? Only a few people in the world follow Islam properly in the first place. So why is it such a shocker that culture is taken more seriously than religion? Because it shouldn't be such a shock.

 

You also mentioned some "double-standards" such as why can a man sleep around and not be punished yet if a woman were to be caught she would be shattered. At first glance, it seems ridiculous that the boy is considered a "playa" and the woman a "[Edited Out]". But if you actually think about it, it's not so weird that women get a greater punishment in culture.

Here are some reasons why it's not so ridiculous:

-The woman bears the child.

-The woman loses her hymen; proves she lost virginity. Can't prove a man lost his virginity like you can a woman. Therefore a man can easily deny pre-marital sex and a woman can't.

-Losing your virginity as a woman outside of marriage is also a sign of disrespect to you family. The permission of your father or grandfather is required in Islam (except in exceptional circumstances), thus by losing it outside of marriage you are spitting in their faces and also disregarding the laws set by Allah. The man does not need permission to lose his virginity.

-The woman is more precious than a man.

-The man is allowed polygamy.

-The nature of man is different to the woman, one aspect of this as an example-women tend to have more self-control than men (this doesn't mean that men can't have more self-control, so don't go raging at me).

 

There are many more reasons, those are just a few I thought about.

 

In Islam yes, the man and woman do get the same punishment for zina. 100 lashes each as far as I know if somehow proven guilty. But again, only a minority of muslims in the world follow Islam properly, so I don't know why you are so upset with culture taking precedence over religion in the vast majority of societies.

 

There's also the problem of the way society is built. It has been built like this over 1000s of years and similarly, it would take 1000s of years to implement the perfect Islam (assuming there is a willing population). Thing is if that were to occur, everyone would be in heaven and there would be no point in Earth. What is there to test if the whole population is perfect? What is the purpose of humans being on Earth if they were all perfect? 

 

I really hope I'm helping you let go of the anger and frustrations you're carrying (as opposed to fueling it), because it seems to be blurring your vision. It's as though you expect Earth to be heaven =/

 

  :P MAN- the king?

Yes and the woman a Queen. What's the matter with that?

Edited by dragonxx
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if the husband does not provide her with what she needs for living such as food and shelter.

In general she also has to forfeit child custody, if the child is older than seven years.

These two together do not make sense. If the man can not or will not provide for his wife, can he or will he provide for his child? I'd think probably not.

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The world has always been like this... culture has always been considered more important than religion. Why are you surprised? Only a few people in the world follow Islam properly in the first place. So why is it such a shocker that culture is taken more seriously than religion? Because it shouldn't be such a shock.

You also mentioned some "double-standards" such as why can a man sleep around and not be punished yet if a woman were to be caught she would be shattered. At first glance, it seems ridiculous that the boy is considered a "playa" and the woman a "[Edited Out]". But if you actually think about it, it's not so weird that women get a greater punishment in culture.

Here are some reasons why it's not so ridiculous:

-The woman bears the child.

-The woman loses her hymen; proves she lost virginity. Can't prove a man lost his virginity like you can a woman. Therefore a man can easily deny pre-marital sex and a woman can't.

-Losing your virginity as a woman outside of marriage is also a sign of disrespect to you family. The permission of your father or grandfather is required in Islam (except in exceptional circumstances), thus by losing it outside of marriage you are spitting in their faces and also disregarding the laws set by Allah. The man does not need permission to lose his virginity.

-The woman is more precious than a man.

-The man is allowed polygamy.

-The nature of man is different to the woman, one aspect of this as an example-women tend to have more self-control than men (this doesn't mean that men can't have more self-control, so don't go raging at me).

There are many more reasons, those are just a few I thought about.

In Islam yes, the man and woman do get the same punishment for zina. 100 lashes each as far as I know if somehow proven guilty. But again, only a minority of muslims in the world follow Islam properly, so I don't know why you are so upset with culture taking precedence over religion in the vast majority of societies.

There's also the problem of the way society is built. It has been built like this over 1000s of years and similarly, it would take 1000s of years to implement the perfect Islam (assuming there is a willing population). Thing is if that were to occur, everyone would be in heaven and there would be no point in Earth. What is there to test if the whole population is perfect? What is the purpose of humans being on Earth if they were all perfect?

I really hope I'm helping you let go of the anger and frustrations you're carrying (as opposed to fueling it), because it seems to be blurring your vision. It's as though you expect Earth to be heaven =/

Yes and the woman a Queen. What's the matter with that?

Im not angry but just can't understand it. "Woman bears the child"- this is not the reason.

I said about the culture not the punish from an islamic view. Thats why i was in shock because islam treats women better than some cultures. And yes, im in shock because where i live, all people have the same rights.

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"Woman bears the child"- this is not the reason.

Yeah it's not the reason, it's one of many.

 

Let me finish the sentence for you, the woman bears the child therefore she is identifiable as one who committed pre-marital sex. And the child identified as illegitimate.

 

So not only did she bring shame to her family, she also brought shame and hardship to an unborn son/daughter.

Therefore in the eyes of people, the woman is more responsible than the man because we simply can't identify the man. We don't know who he is. He gets away usually. And the woman stuck with the child.

And all eyes on the family whose daughter committed zina.

Nobody knows who the family of the son is.

Even if the woman were to point out the man responsible, he can easily claim the baby isn't his as she had multiple pre-marital relationships. Not hard to identify which baby belongs to which mother though.

 

Edited by dragonxx
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Salam

I thought I would bring up this issue as it something that bothers me and keeps me from a firm faith.

Why in Islam are woman not given equal rights?

Hey, you forgot your favourite one :

Why woman is only half a witness of a man. Maybe you can answer your own question.

Edited by Forgotten
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You know what's absolutely crazy...the woman can only divorce if her rights are violated otherwise the husband has to initiate divorce, yet the woman loses custody of the child upon divorce. So if the husband initiates it, she loses custody of the child.  Doesn't this seem unfair?

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You know what's absolutely crazy...the woman can only divorce if her rights are violated otherwise the husband has to initiate divorce, yet the woman loses custody of the child upon divorce. So if the husband initiates it, she loses custody of the child. Doesn't this seem unfair?

Law or not, there is absolutely no way my ex will ever take custody of my child. A man who lets his family become destitute while he lives in luxury is no Muslim no matter what he claims to believe.

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Women r poor in Islam.

Just men r human

I know it s not reality! Coz I m sure that Islam is the best and the most perfect religion. But I really cant understand why women have a little right!

Women have much more problems and men have more rights! It s unfair in my mind

I am absolutely no scholar, but it seems to me that the wisdom behind Islamic laws governing family life is based on equity and not equality.  So in a sense, no men and women are not considered equal in the sense that they have different strengths than men, so they aren't the same, but both being human, they are equally deserving of fair and equitable treatment and respect of their dignity. For example, find one man who can give birth to a child- we can't do it, so we aren't the same.  My understanding of Islamic law is that there is a perfect balance between the rights and needs of men and women, a balance between their strengths and weaknesses.  Allah (s.w.t.) is perfect.  Allah (s.w.t.)'s word is truth, and His command is law.  Humankind by contrast is not perfect.  His word is not always truth, and his command is but a presumption of the favor of Allah (s.w.t.) in his endeavors.

 

Anyway, I'm trying to say that oppression does not come from Allah (s.w.t.), and we must remember that although we Muslims often get it wrong, the most beautiful truth of the importance of women in Islam is the truth that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) brought to the Arabs living in jahiliyya when he brought them the command of Allah (s.w.t.) to stop the barbaric practice of female infanticide and to grant rights to women.  Allahu 'Alim...

 

(wasalam)

R

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Im not angry but just can't understand it. "Woman bears the child"- this is not the reason.

I said about the culture not the punish from an islamic view. Thats why i was in shock because islam treats women better than some cultures. And yes, im in shock because where i live, all people have the same rights.

 

do you mean the good nation of POLAND ??

 

where;

 

One in five Poles considers that domestic violence is the norm in Poland, according to government-sponsored research.

- See more at: http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/80105,Domestic-violence-rife-in-Poland-research-finds#sthash.3Y7AJ58o.dpuf

 

​or the violence and discrimination against the jews and anti-semitism, the bashing of gays and now the increasing islamophobia sweeping your country.

​Is this what you call equal rights ?

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do you mean the good nation of POLAND ??

 

where;

 

One in five Poles considers that domestic violence is the norm in Poland, according to government-sponsored research.

- See more at: http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/80105,Domestic-violence-rife-in-Poland-research-finds#sthash.3Y7AJ58o.dpuf

 

​or the violence and discrimination against the jews and anti-semitism, the bashing of gays and now the increasing islamophobia sweeping your country.

​Is this what you call equal rights ?

I must agree. I had to deal with many polish people in my job, and many of the things you describe they see it as normal in their countries. They were very impressed that I, as a muslim, acted politely with them. Who knows where that islamophobia comes from...

Edited by Bakir
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Idk about the "rules" but who says a women can't get divorced if she is not happy.??

Supposedly under Islamic law a woman must ask her husband to divorce her if she is unhappy and he can refuse. The man, on the other hand, is not obligated under law to even attempt to resolve the problem in the marriage. Supposedly he can divorce his wife just on a whim.

If a woman can prove that her rights have been violated, she can get an Islamic jurist to issue a divorce on behalf of her husband even without his consent.

In my opinion one who follows the letter of this law misses the spirit of it. Divorce is the most detestable permitted thing, but living under oppression is worse. Nobody should be forced to stay in an oppressive marriage, but no man or woman should take divorce lightly either.

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Supposedly under Islamic law a woman must ask her husband to divorce her if she is unhappy and he can refuse. The man, on the other hand, is not obligated under law to even attempt to resolve the problem in the marriage. Supposedly he can divorce his wife just on a whim.

If a woman can prove that her rights have been violated, she can get an Islamic jurist to issue a divorce on behalf of her husband even without his consent.

In my opinion one who follows the letter of this law misses the spirit of it. Divorce is the most detestable permitted thing, but living under oppression is worse. Nobody should be forced to stay in an oppressive marriage, but no man or woman should take divorce lightly either.

This is so stupid, who says that?......

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I must agree. I had to deal with many polish people in my job, and many of the things you describe they see it as normal in their countries. They were very impressed that I, as a muslim, acted politely with them. Who knows where that islamophobia comes from...

Polish are generally good people , very simple minded, hard workers and very conservative.

But recently in Poland, Islamophobia  has kicked into overdrive and have OD with steroids.

Poland makes all the other Eu countries look like teddy bears, as the criminal gangs in Poland called "hooligans" go rampaging openly to the very small minority of muslims.

The police and authorities do absolutely nothing about it.

Recently at an islamic centre in Poznan , there was threats made to the muslim kids and stickers posted on the centre to free Poland of Islam.

These " patriots " have patrols that go around making young polish women not to fall for muslim and arab men.

It's a volcano ready to erupt soon, all it needs is the economy to crash which is about to soon.

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This is so stupid, who says that?......

I don't know any hadith though they probably exist. Definitely most if not all of our marjas say that divorce rules are as I said previously.

I'm absolutely certain, however, that the Prophet (as) would not have divorced on a whim nor required a woman to remain married under oppression. I also doubt that he would have taken children away from a loving and supportive mother to give them to a negligent father.

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Supposedly under Islamic law a woman must ask her husband to divorce her if she is unhappy and he can refuse. The man, on the other hand, is not obligated under law to even attempt to resolve the problem in the marriage. Supposedly he can divorce his wife just on a whim.

The husband would need to bring two witnesses in order to divorce his wife, and if they are any kind of Muslims, then they would try to talk him out of simply divorcing his wife on a whim (simply the fact of having to call the witnesses puts some restraint on him, unlike in the Sunni schools of law). Of course, society being what it is, no doubt there are some so-called Muslims that would just go along with whatever their family member or friend wants, but you would hope that such people would be few and far between. No system is immune from abuse though. As usual, all we can do is the right thing, and trust that any injustices will be righted in the afterlife.

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I would like to share this, from the Grand Marja Makarem Shirazi:

 

According to Makarem Shirazi, a Muslim man may "under exceptional circumstances" inflict a "light physical punishment" on his wife for not willing to perform her [sexual] marital duties. The physical punishment, he explains, must be very light where no harm or injuries are caused and even "the skin should not turn red". The "exceptional circumstances" are to be considered after [nicely asking and] advising, grumping, and separating beds, "just like when a surgery is the last resort for a patient"

Wrongly translated news articles have referenced Makarem Shirazi, saying Islam allows a man to beat his wife. This leading ayatollah describes on his website, that Islam has ordered men to have good behavior with their spouses and has even forbidden them from yelling and speaking to their wives with temper [1]. On the same topic, Makarem Shirazi says, if a man does not perform his marital duties towardc his wife, even after advice and when there is no other solution, the Islamic government can physically punish him [on behalf of the wife] [1].

In the same article, he references psychiatrists (probably Krafft-Ebing's Psychopathia Sexualis) and mentions that "some women" have natural tendency towards sexual masochism and a slight punishment act will help in "easing their mind"

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To be clear, I believe Islam to be perfect, however, humans are imperfect.

To silasun, thank you for posting a beautiful example for Muslim men and women to strive toward. May we all treat others, especially our loved ones, with dignity, appreciation, and compassion.

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To be clear, I believe Islam to be perfect, however, humans are imperfect.

To silasun, thank you for posting a beautiful example for Muslim men and women to strive toward. May we all treat others, especially our loved ones, with dignity, appreciation, and compassion.

Salaam sister

Sorry for not naking myself clear, of course i recogonise from your posts on shiachat that you do indeed believe islam is perfect, and probably all those who contributed to the thread think the same. The post was intended for those sisters who maybe did not always see the reasoning behind laws ( that is not unexpected, i thik we all do this for some laws at some times during our lifes)- i dont think any of the sisters complained about islamic laws, they merely asked questions, so the aim was to try and inshAllah make sonlme of these answers quite clear.

It was also intended for those highly ignorant people who think that islam encourages xyz bad treatment of women.

May Allah shower blessings on all of our families and especially our marriages.

Ws

Edited by silasun
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100% equal rights is a Western feminist bid`ah

Ok, but what does that have to do with anything? Are you just posting these one-liners in order to provoke? If so, then maybe you should think about whether that is a good way to promote Islam. The rights men have in Islam come with responsibilities, and are not meant to be a means of putting women down.

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Ok, but what does that have to do with anything? Are you just posting these one-liners in order to provoke? If so, then maybe you should think about whether that is a good way to promote Islam. The rights men have in Islam come with responsibilities, and are not meant to be a means of putting women down.

Addressing the O.P, either God's Laws or Man's Laws - CHOOSE

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do you mean the good nation of POLAND ??

 

where;

 

One in five Poles considers that domestic violence is the norm in Poland, according to government-sponsored research.

- See more at: http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/80105,Domestic-violence-rife-in-Poland-research-finds#sthash.3Y7AJ58o.dpuf

 

​or the violence and discrimination against the jews and anti-semitism, the bashing of gays and now the increasing islamophobia sweeping your country.

​Is this what you call equal rights ?

There is violence right but don't you see a difference? We can divorce, we can call to the police, we can leave this kind of man and we don't need to explain 1000 people why and none would tell us: " stay with him because he is your husband ". I haven't said there is no violence in my country ( read carefuly) but we can do more as a women with that then for example women in arab countries. 

 

We are not talking about other nations and religions. We are talking about women's issue. If you want to talk about race/ religion discrimination- yes we have it ( as a every country ) but there is something like punish. You can always go to the police/ lawyer etc and they will help you. There is equal law for everyone here. This is a difference.

Edited by Amna_
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There is violence right but don't you see a difference? We can divorce, we can call to the police, we can leave this kind of man and we don't need to explain 1000 people why and none would tell us: " stay with him because he is your husband ". I haven't said there is no violence in my country ( read carefuly) but we can do more as a women with that then for example women in arab countries. 

 

We are not talking about other nations and religions. We are talking about women's issue. If you want to talk about race/ religion discrimination- yes we have it ( as a every country ) but there is something like punish. You can always go to the police/ lawyer etc and they will help you. There is equal law for everyone here. This is a difference.

When the jewish people visit Poland why do they need body guards with them ?

Your police turn a blind eye to the violence committed by criminal gangs which they do in broad daylight in front of cameras with no fear.

Your country is often referred to as the Eu country that is run by "hooligans" and you cannot solve this issue, so the "rule of law " do not apply in such situations.

Let's not paint the good nation of Poland with the upholders of the "rule of law" when we all know it was just a mouthpiece used by your politicians to get into the European Union.

And if you read my reply , you still haven't noticed that 20% of polish view domestic violence as normal , ( but real figures are probably  always double ) , so getting back to the OPs topic , close to 40% of Polish people think it's ok to slap the wife around , that's the highest rate of violence against women from a "developed" western nation.

Seems like you are the 40% that wants to ignore this fact .

Edited by :Sami II
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When the jewish people visit Poland why do they need body guards with them ?

Your police turn a blind eye to the violence committed by criminal gangs which they do in broad daylight in front of cameras with no fear.

Your country is often referred to as the Eu country that is run by "hooligans" and you cannot solve this issue, so the "rule of law " do not apply in such situations.

Let's not paint the good nation of Poland with the upholders of the "rule of law" when we all know it was just a mouthpiece used by your politicians to get into the European Union.

And if you read my reply , you still haven't noticed that 20% of polish view domestic violence as normal , ( but real figures are probably  always double ) , so getting back to the OPs topic , close to 40% of Polish people think it's ok to slap the wife around , that's the highest rate of violence against women from a "developed" western nation.

Seems like you are the 40% that wants to ignore this fact .

I' ve seen so many jewish there and none was with body guards. It depends on a police man who is blind of who is not but im talking about the law not people and their actions. 

You sounds so funny with your general informations, you know nothing about my country. And no, we don't notice violence as something normal and yes, it happens in Poland but the difference is- we can go to the police, we have a places to go if for example a husband is abusive, we are confident that we can leave this kind of man. Do not reply to me anymore, your informations are funny for me.

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I' ve seen so many jewish there and none was with body guards. It depends on a police man who is blind of who is not but im talking about the law not people and their actions. 

You sounds so funny with your general informations, you know nothing about my country. And no, we don't notice violence as something normal and yes, it happens in Poland but the difference is- we can go to the police, we have a places to go if for example a husband is abusive, we are confident that we can leave this kind of man. Do not reply to me anymore, your informations are funny for me.

I don't find anything funny about domestic violence or the abuse of women , do you think these things are funny ?

In Islam there is no room for such patriotism , nationalism or love for some borders particularly for those that are against Islamic values.

 

 

As a revert to the great Deen of Islam, you should leave behind such love and channel it towards :Allah swt only.

And maybe show manners when you discuss topics here on SC with other members.( but thats typical of polish people right )

SC is a public forum and you as a member cannot tell another member if they can reply or not.

Edited by notme
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  • 1 year later...
On January 22, 2015 at 5:36 PM, dragonxx said:

Here are some very brief answers...

 

They are given equal rights according to their responsibilities which is dictated by their capabilities.

 

A woman gets very emotional very quickly, and so will say things she does not mean such as 'I want a divorce now', and 3 days later she will whole-heartedly want to return to her husband. So if it's as easy for a woman to get a divorce as a man, you'd have more divorces than marriages.

 

Men have more responsibility than the woman in this sense and therefore entitled to more inheritance.

 

Why should a young boy ask his mother to go out of the house? Because his mother is responsible for protecting him.

 

Why not obey the husband?

 

She can refuse sex if she has a valid reason, and any muslim would gladly accept a valid reason. However often times you'll find the wife simply too lazy while the man is burning for desire, and if she has the ability to refuse sex left and right, well then the man is going to seek pleasure from elsewhere and we all know how that will end up. Worth noting that the man shouldn't refuse his wife sex either.

 

These laws don't seem sexist at all. To me personally, it's like asking why doesn't the man have equal right to breastfeed his child.

"Why should a young boy ask his mother to go oit of the house" Because his mother is responsible for protecting him." 

 

I disagree. 

 

 

Yes, a mother should watch out for the young boy. But women eho are GROWN UP, INDEPENDENT, CONFIDENT, and RESPONSIBLE enough to take care of kids, should be responsible enough to leave the house just for a fee mins to buy some milk if she ran out for her children. Why does the husband need to know where she is every second? Secondly, the woman is AN ADULT! She should have more freedoms than a child such as a young boy. Also, isnt it just fair that a husband leta his wife where he is at all times too? Yes, the husband works and has a higher responsibility, but guess who does all the housework for him..thats right..women. 

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Unlike to the propagation of Western media, Islam freed women from those circumstances, which existed for them during the age of ignorance of pre-Islamic times and wants men and women to develop.

You can’t imagine what circumstances were like for women during pre-Islamic times and to what degree their situation improved with the advent of Islam. 

Islam did a service for women, which has no precedent in history. Islam raised women up out of that slough and gave her back her identity.

Islam took women by the hand and made them equal with men, whereas before the Prophet came, women had no standing. Islam gave women strength.

Islam holds women in higher esteem than it does men. Islam wants to save women; it wants to save women from becoming this plaything they want to turn women into. Islam wants to train women to become a perfect human being.

During the time of ignorance, women were oppressed; they were treated like animals, even worse than animals. Then Islam came and bestowed its blessings on mankind, it dragged women out of that state of oppression, [and] it pulled her from that slough of ignorance

Islam put women on a par with men, and made them equal with men. Of course, there are certain Islamic precepts, which apply only to men, and others which apply only to women, but this doesn’t mean that Islam discriminates between men and women.

https://www.al-islam.org/position-women-viewpoint-imam-khomeini-ra/status-and-rights-women-islamic-system#women%E2%80%99s-rights-islam

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