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In the Name of God بسم الله

Iranians Stage Protest Against Charlie Hebdo's Sac

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TEHRAN (FNA)- A large number of Iranian university students and people, in a protest sit-in in front of the French embassy in Tehran, expressed their anger over the blasphemous cartoon of Islam's Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) published in the French weekly, Charlie Hebdo.

The protestors carrying placards expressed indignation at the insult to Islam by the French magazine.


They also chanted "Death to the US", "Death to Israel" and "Death to Britain" slogans, implying that they are the real masterminds of Charlie Hebdo's sacrilegious act.


The protestors also demanded expulsion of those who support or whose country is responsible for such provocative moves from Iran.


The gathering was staged after the French satirical magazine once again published a sacrilegious cartoon of Islam's Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), only a week after gunmen murdered eight journalists and four others at its offices in Paris.


The move has hurt the sentiments of over a billion Muslims throughout the world and caused angry protests in many world states.


The Iranian foreign ministry on Wednesday deplored the publication of the blasphemous Cartoon, describing it as a "provocative" and "insulting" move.


"We condemn provocative moves and in our view, the weekly's action is insulting and we condemn it completely since it will provoke and hurt Muslims' feelings across the world and will create a sequence of extremism in the world," Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Marziyeh Afkham said in Tehran on Wednesday.


She stressed that respecting the beliefs, values and sanctities of different religions was a globally accepted principle and European statesmen are expected to heed such norms.


Afkham underscored that it was not enough for the western governments to admit to their wrong policies, and they needed to adopt correct decisions which serve the interests of the followers of all religions and nations.


Earlier this month, the ISIL terrorist group attacked the weekly after it released a cartoon of ISIL leader Abu Bakr Al-Baqdadi. At least 12 people were killed when masked gunmen stormed the Paris offices of Charlie Hebdo and opened fire.


Iranian officials condemned the attack, but warned that the incident should not be used as a pretext for accusing Islam or pressuring the Muslim community in the West, reminding that ISIL is not an Islamic group.


The same day, Afkham condemned the attack, and said any act of terrorism against innocent people is opposed to Islamic teachings.


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Hello,

 

Why do people in Iran like to shout "Death to...[insert country that's not Iran here.]"?

 

I know they are free to do so and I respect their freedom of speech; that's not the question.

 

Does wishing death on another country promote hatred or peace?

 

When Americans see or hear "Death to America" it does not help them view Iran favorably.

 

If Iranians are just against American leadership, why do they not voice that instead of chant what in the USA is taken as a death wish for all Americans?

 

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

 

Peace and God bless you

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Hello,

 

Why do people in Iran like to shout "Death to...[insert country that's not Iran here.]"?

 

I know they are free to do so and I respect their freedom of speech; that's not the question.

 

Does wishing death on another country promote hatred or peace?

 

 

Think of it like this. 

 

The Iranians protest and their government does likewise. 

In contrast, in various moderate, pro-Western Arab states there is no government criticism of the cartoons and public protests are not allowed.

 

But the terrorists, of which western countries are afraid, are all coming from those Arab countries! So your thesis is wrong. The alternative thesis must be right i.e. Iran gives a peaceful (but angry) outlet for anti-West sentiment. The Arabs try and stifle it and it's patently not working.

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Hello,

 

Why do people in Iran like to shout "Death to...[insert country that's not Iran here.]"?

 

I know they are free to do so and I respect their freedom of speech; that's not the question.

 

Does wishing death on another country promote hatred or peace?

 

Hi

In Islam there is a concept called : TAVALLA and TABRRA

That means muslims must make clear his line of thought and action, he must show that he is at peace and friendship with whom and of whome  he is weary, because your minds is as important as your actions. I mean the minds make actions. So Muslims should seek aversion of bad persons and bad actions, they show that to avoid of them and  supported opposite concept . the Muslim must be brave enough to say they hate of bad thing and stand in front of that. This isn't promote hatred on that mean is on your mind, it's different. so please answer this qustions :

Tell me the hatred of evil is a bad thing? Is that promote hatred??!!

Peace and God bless you

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Think of it like this. 

 

The Iranians protest and their government does likewise. 

In contrast, in various moderate, pro-Western Arab states there is no government criticism of the cartoons and public protests are not allowed.

 

But the terrorists, of which western countries are afraid, are all coming from those Arab countries! So your thesis is wrong. The alternative thesis must be right i.e. Iran gives a peaceful (but angry) outlet for anti-West sentiment. The Arabs try and stifle it and it's patently not working.

 

Hello Hajj 2003,

 

Some people believe more in action than in word. As for words, words are very important because they transmit ideas and concepts.

 

Jesus Christ says, “But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.  For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.”  – Matthew 15:18-19 (ESV)

 

It is very important to keep one’s heart and mouth clean from the above sins.

 

The “Death to America” chant is not simply a Persian/Iranian verbal expression against America. Other groups of people chant “Death to America” too.

 

Pakistan: “Death to America” chant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvViqZZgYHc

 

Gaza: “Death to America” chant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPvc-eTym-Q

 

Bahrain: “Death to America” chant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP-JAjVsxd4

 

Yemen: “Death to America” chant

Is the little boy in the following YouTube being taught peace or warfare?  

He leads a chant with includes “Death to America”  (Is this little boy a Shia Muslim or a Sunni Muslim?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YovTG0ZZxJo

 

That reminds me a Vice News video of Sunni Islamic State kids who, while not chanting “Death to America” are being trained to fight Russians and Americans (See 5:48  of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzCAPJDAnQA)

 

As a pacifist, this breaks my heart, especially since I know my country does not obey Jesus Christ and these precious kids who don’t know a more peaceful way to live could end up dead by bombs, either now or when they are young men.

It breaks my heart, because these children should be learning peace and love, not war and hatred.

Children in the USA as well should be learning peace and love, not war and hatred against any group of people,

regardless of their ethnicity, nationality, and religion.

 

Jesus Christ said to Peter, who had clumsily tried to defend Jesus from arrest with a sword:  “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.” – Matthew 26:52 (ESV)

 

While not all people who use weapons to kill other people are killed with weapons, the concept is violence has the tendency to boomerang back and kill the killer. It breaks my heart that these children are being taught that killing other people is ok.

 

Wishing death on a country or people does not bring peace, nor is it loving. While the Islamic State is an enemy of the USA, I do not wish death on either the Islamic State or any other enemy of the USA. Rather, I pray they come to know the peace and love of God, and realize this life is not for killing people, but rather for loving God and His creation, which includes other people who believe differently than they do. I pray this for my own country as well.

 

Peace and God bless you

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Hello N.Mim,

 

 

Hi

In Islam there is a concept called : TAVALLA and TABRRA

That means muslims must make clear his line of thought and action, he must show that he is at peace and friendship with whom and of whome  he is weary, because your minds is as important as your actions. I mean the minds make actions. So Muslims should seek aversion of bad persons and bad actions, they show that to avoid of them and  supported opposite concept . the Muslim must be brave enough to say they hate of bad thing and stand in front of that. This isn't promote hatred on that mean is on your mind, it's different. so please answer this qustions :

 

Thank you for explaining to me these Islamic concepts.

 

Tell me the hatred of evil is a bad thing?

 

 

Hatred of evil is not a bad thing, but hatred of people just begets more hatred, as well as murder.

 

It is not bad to speak out against the evil the US government leaders have done and do.

It is not bad to list the sins of a nation, or the sins of an individual.

I for example do speak out against the sins of my country, though I love my country.

I love God more than my country.

One can speak out against the sins of the sinner without hating the sinner, but rather with love.

 

Jesus Christ, for example, loves Jerusalem. When speaking about Jerusalem's sin of murdering prophets and of rejecting him as the Christ (Messiah/Anointed One/King), he said the following:

 

 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! See, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

- Matthew 23 :37-39 (ESV)

 

1. Jesus speaks out against Jerusalem's sins: killing prophets and stoning those sent to it.

2. Jesus speaks with love and yearning, because he loves the people of Jerusalem!

3. Jesus acknowledges the free will of the people of Jersualem to reject him, and respects their right to do so.

4. Jesus tells the negative consequences of Jerusalem's actions.

5. Jesus gives hope, that someday Jerusalem will see him again and say "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord"

 

While some Jewish people in Jerusalem and other areas of Judea/Israel accepted Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah (Christ), most did not. However, Jesus Christ speaks to Jerusalem with love and yearning, sadness and heartbreak. He loves the people of Jersualem and hates their sins, because he knows their sins (disobedience to God) hurts them. He does not want them hurt, but he acknowledges their free will to reject him.
 

 

Is that promote hatred??!!

 

 

There is a way to speak out against sin without promoting hatred. Having love and concern for the people in sin is how to do so. Again, I speak out against the ancestors of my country hurting the Native Americans and Africans, as well as I speak out against my country invading other nations. I speak out against the USA nuking 2 cities in Japan, killing thousands of children, women, and men. (Nuclear weapns are evil.)

 

In my opinion, people in the Middle East who hate the horrible sins of the USA for could provoke shame in American leaders if they focus on chants that call for the USA to follow Jesus Christ. While the USA is not a Christian nation, the USA does have many people who identify themselves as Christians. Invoking them to turn to Jesus Christ and ask "What would Jesus do?" instead of sparking the natural human nature of hatred would really help. It could turn more and more Americans to realizing that we need American leaders who will not go and invade and attack other countries.

 

Peace and God bless you

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Wishing death on a country or people does not bring peace, nor is it loving. While the Islamic State is an enemy of the USA, I do not wish death on either the Islamic State or any other enemy of the USA. Rather, I pray they come to know the peace and love of God, and realize this life is not for killing people, but rather for loving God and His creation, which includes other people who believe differently than they do. I pray this for my own country as well.

 

I have an easy question of you Imagine just imagine sombody kill your family crue(God forbid). In this case, you will say to killer: hey my friend come talk about the peace and friendship. we can be friend. hate is bad thing and ... . Tell me what is your reaction? hate of evil, isn't bad! America kill sinless peaple direct and mediated. Those who are spreading hatred and hostility is America  and it's friend not the Death to America, Death to Evil chant! Evil death is the beginning of peace:)

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Pakistan: “Death to America” chant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvViqZZgYHc

 

Gaza: “Death to America” chant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPvc-eTym-Q

 

Bahrain: “Death to America” chant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP-JAjVsxd4

 

Yemen: “Death to America” chant

Is the little boy in the following YouTube being taught peace or warfare?  

He leads a chant with includes “Death to America”  (Is this little boy a Shia Muslim or a Sunni Muslim?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YovTG0ZZxJo

 

 

 

The Christians who fly the drones and the bombers into the countries you mention may truly wish to witness the love of Jesus Christ upon the people down below.

 

But let us pray, together, that the Lord teaches those Muslims some patience, as their lives are made more worthy with the baptism of fire that they are about to receive.

 

And that they stop complaining.

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The Christians who fly the drones and the bombers into the countries you mention may truly wish to witness the love of Jesus Christ upon the people down below.

 

 

Hello Hajj 2003

 

Do you believe everyone who calls himself a Muslim is a true Muslim?

 

People who call themselves Christians yet disobey Jesus Christ's commands to love enemies (Matthew 5:43-48: Luke 6:27-37) are like people who call themselves vegetarians yet eat beef.

 

 

But let us pray, together, that the Lord teaches those Muslims some patience, as their lives are made more worthy with the baptism of fire that they are about to receive.

 

And that they stop complaining.

 

 

If people who call themselves Christians would obey Jesus Christ's commands to love, Muslims would not be dying at the hands of those who call themselves Christians.

 

Peace and God bless you

Hello N.mim,

 

 

I have an easy question of you Imagine just imagine sombody kill your family crue(God forbid). In this case, you will say to killer: hey my friend come talk about the peace and friendship. we can be friend

 

 

 If God someday allows my family to be killed by enemies, I very much hope that i will obey Jesus Christ's commands to love my enemies and show them Jesus' love.

 

When Jesus was suffering on the cross, he did not curse his enemies. Instead, he said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” - accounted in Luke 23:34 (NIV)

 

Stephen, the first martyr for Jesus, followed Jesus Christ's example by praying, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” when he was being stoned to death - accounted in Acts 7:60 (NIV).

 

hate is bad thing and ... .

 

Jesus Christ clearly commands his followers to love their enemies (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-37). I do not want to be disobedient to Jesus the Christ (Messiah/Anointed One/King).

 

 

Tell me what is your reaction?

 

 

I hope my reaction would be to obey Jesus Christ.

 

 

hate of evil, isn't bad!

 

 

 

I agree that hatred of evil isn't bad, but hating people is not what Jesus Christ commands his followers to do.

 

 

America kill sinless peaple direct and mediated.

 

 

Most American leaders are sadly guilty of ordering bloodshed. God will punish them on Judgement Day. God doesn't need help.

 

Even before the USA existed as a nation, many nations have sadly killed people, directly and mediated.

 

Those who are spreading hatred and hostility is America  and it's friend not the Death to America, Death to Evil chant! Evil death is the beginning of peace:

 

 

Do you honestly believe that evil will be dead if America dies? Evil existed way before the USA existed as a nation, and will horribly continue to exist until Jesus Christ returns, even if America is no more.

 

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady
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In my opinion, people in the Middle East who hate the horrible sins of the USA for could provoke shame in American leaders if they focus on chants that call for the USA to follow Jesus Christ. While the USA is not a Christian nation, the USA does have many people who identify themselves as Christians. Invoking them to turn to Jesus Christ and ask "What would Jesus do?" instead of sparking the natural human nature of hatred would really help. It could turn more and more Americans to realizing that we need American leaders who will not go and invade and attack other countries.

 

 

 Do you really think that they are not familiar with the teachings of Christ A.S and Muhammad P.B.U.H? or other people have forgotten that theachings? Are they unconscious mistakes?! We know that God is merciful. Our Prophet, like Jesus A.S is the Messenger of peace and mercy, For that they are in alignment and on behalf of one GOD. While God is merciful but himself says seek aversion of those people are deprived other of blessing and show that. I think this is the least we can do for sympathy and help of the oppressed.

 

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(salam)

 

"Mag bar _____" is "Down with ____" ; not  "death to ____"

 

This deliberate mis-translation is common. One l remember is Qaddafi's "jamahira" --ask and the answer you got was "who knows...Qaddafi is crazy" ( l literally got that answer in the 70s too) but it actually translates as "republic".

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(salam)

 

"Mag bar _____" is "Down with ____" ; not  "death to ____"

 

This deliberate mis-translation is common. One l remember is Qaddafi's "jamahira" --ask and the answer you got was "who knows...Qaddafi is crazy" ( l literally got that answer in the 70s too) but it actually translates as "republic".

 

marg means death.

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Hello N.mim,

 

 

 If God someday allows my family to be killed by enemies, I very much hope that i will obey Jesus Christ's commands to love my enemies and show them Jesus' love.

 

When Jesus was suffering on the cross, he did not curse his enemies. Instead, he said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” - accounted in Luke 23:34 (NIV)

 

Stephen, the first martyr for Jesus, followed Jesus Christ's example by praying, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” when he was being stoned to death - accounted in Acts 7:60 (NIV).

 

 

Jesus Christ clearly commands his followers to love their enemies (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-37). I do not want to be disobedient to Jesus the Christ (Messiah/Anointed One/King).

 

 

 

I hope my reaction would be to obey Jesus Christ.

 

Hi again

It is very beautiful and gracious! Yes, in the Qur'an Allah to forgive the past and has recommended:

"Take to forgiveness and enjoin good and turn aside from the ignorant" ( verse 991/chapter 1)

"...Pardon them, seek forgiveness for them..." (verse159/3)

"...Yet pardon them and overlook it; God loves those who act kindly." (verse13/ 5)

"The reward for an injury should be an injury proportionate to it. Yet anyone who overlooks things and becomes reconciled shall receive his payment from God; He does not love wrongdoers!" (verse 40/ 42)

and other verses. BUT a question! If you forgive cause them to be assertive and kill your neighbors! I said that they are cruel.If they killed everyone in your town! Do not think that the cause of death,  Is your forgiveness? Forgiveness is not always permitted! When it is permissible to take the next error, Not that help evil! For this GOD says in Quran: And there is life for you in) the law of (a retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves(971/ chapter 1) because In such cases is taken more oppression and violation of the rights of others! SO  Allah thinks about all notes...

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Jesus Christ clearly commands his followers to love their enemies (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-37). I do not want to be disobedient to Jesus the Christ (Messiah/Anointed One/King).

 

I agree that hatred of evil isn't bad, but hating people is not what Jesus Christ commands his followers to do.

 

 In the previous example, but not nice example, let's think that those who kill your family, they are part of a group that your forgiveness  doesn't leads to salvation and they assertive and want to kill all of your city! they want your city and... like Israel! If Jesus A.S  was there, told: oh What a lovely enemy! or stood in front of them? this isn't the wey of  the Messenger of God that be silent in the face of oppression and If he can not help them with hand at least help them with his tongue. Prophets are the helper oppressed. we should act like them.

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Do you honestly believe that evil will be dead if America dies? Evil existed way before the USA existed as a nation, ands, even if America is no more. will horribly continue to exist until Jesus Christ return

 

 What do you think about that?!  It turns out that you do not know anything about our religion! yes will horribly continue to exist until Jesus A.S and Imam Mahdi A.S  return. BUT What's wrong with we're trying to remove one of the symbols of oppression? What is our duty until they return?  

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Salam :)

Somehow, I don't get the problem here? I mean, they say America not Americans.

I always hear people say things like "Stupid America" - and everyone knows that they mean the government is stupid not the people living there. Isn't that normal? That, if you have something against a government, you insult or whatever by saying "France/Germany/America" - I thought that's the norm. Or maybe the environment I live in is just weird... :P

Though, it's easy to say 'forget and forgive' if you're not amongst the people living in these states. Besides, people should be judged by their actions not their words, only (because, honestly, people say a lot of things, in the end, what they do is what counts) - but that's hard if you only want to see the bad in someone.

Wa salam.

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Hello Hajj 2003

 

Do you believe everyone who calls himself a Muslim is a true Muslim?

 

People who call themselves Christians yet disobey Jesus Christ's commands to love enemies (Matthew 5:43-48: Luke 6:27-37) are like people who call themselves vegetarians yet eat beef.

 

Ehh, it's easy to pick out happy sounding verses from the bible and then portray it as the image of Christianity. 

 

Let's have a short examination shall we?

 

Matthew 5:17-5:19

 

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
So we conclude that Jesus (pbup) agrees with the old testament. If anything, he talks about how awesome Moses was more than anyone else. So we see that either Matthew is lying or he is telling the truth and everything else in the new testament that counters his claims are false.
 
For the sake of argument, let's assume Matthew is telling the truth. 
 
Let's take a look at the old testament shall we?
 
 
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15)
 
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9)
 
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12)
 
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
 
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.  (Isaiah 14:21)
 
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18)
 
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.  (Jeremiah 48:10)
 
 
 
And there is many many more verses like that. So in which part between God killing babies and priests slaughtering people does Jesus of the New testament say we have to turn the other cheek and then love the people we are slaughtering?
 
In any case, Jesus himself apparently didn't turn his other cheeks and loved his enemies when he said:
"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Like 19:27)
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Who ever is writing " Death to America " or " Death to Israel " are actually showing Death to there Policies. No body is against American or those Jews who are not in favor of Oppressing others. So its mistake of people who believes in Literal meaning instead of Concept.

 

Edited : Sorry Noor al-Batul answered it already. Thanx

Edited by alirex
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Hello N.mim,

 

 Do you really think that they are not familiar with the teachings of Christ A.S and Muhammad P.B.U.H? or other people have forgotten that theachings? Are they unconscious mistakes?!

 

 

While many people have sadly disobeyed Jesus Christ’s commands to love out of ignorance, others simply don’t care that Jesus the Christ (Anointed One/King) commands people to love enemies too.  In this day and age, I do not think that disobeying Jesus Christ is an unconscious mistake for adults. The reason is because anybody who is interested can read for themselves what Jesus Christ said to do. 

 

The leaders of the USA do not obey Jesus Christ because they want power.

 

 We know that God is merciful. Our Prophet, like Jesus A.S is the Messenger of peace and mercy, For that they are in alignment and on behalf of one GOD. While God is merciful but himself says seek aversion of those people are deprived other of blessing and show that. I think this is the least we can do for sympathy and help of the oppressed.

 

 

Jesus Chrst did not lead battles against either the Roman soldiers who were oppressing his people the Jews, or the Jewish leaders who rejected him. Rather, a very cool thing about his command for loving enemies is that even some Roman soldiers began to follow Jesus Christ too (Acts 10)! If the Jewish followers of Jesus Christ were killing the Roman soldiers, this would not have attracted the Roman soldiers to Jesus Christ.

 

Hi again

It is very beautiful and gracious! Yes, in the Qur'an Allah to forgive the past and has recommended:

"Take to forgiveness and enjoin good and turn aside from the ignorant" ( verse 991/chapter 1)

"...Pardon them, seek forgiveness for them..." (verse159/3)

"...Yet pardon them and overlook it; God loves those who act kindly." (verse13/ 5)

"The reward for an injury should be an injury proportionate to it. Yet anyone who overlooks things and becomes reconciled shall receive his payment from God; He does not love wrongdoers!" (verse 40/ 42)

 

 

 

Centuries before the Qur’an, God protected His Word. God’s Word, Jesus Christ, commanded his followers to forgive:

 

This, then, is how you should pray:

‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us today our daily bread.

And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.  

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. – Matthew 6:9-15 (NIV)

 

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked,

“Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”

Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. – Matthew 18:21-22 (NIV)

 

(Jesus Christ does not mean to count up to 77 times when forgiving someone, but rather means to not keep tabs on the # of times we forgive, since God forgives us way more than we count.)

 

And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them,

so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” – Mark 11:25 (NIV)

 

 

and other verses. BUT a question! If you forgive cause them to be assertive and kill your neighbors! I said that they are cruel.If they killed everyone in your town! Do not think that the cause of death,  Is your forgiveness? Forgiveness is not always permitted! When it is permissible to take the next error, Not that help evil! For this GOD says in Quran: And there is life for you in) the law of (a retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves(971/ chapter 1) because In such cases is taken more oppression and violation of the rights of others! SO  Allah thinks about all notes...

 

 

Jesus Christ suffered torture and death, in fulfillment of Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22, before his Father in Heaven rose him from the dead.  He did not fight his torturers, though he could have. Instead, he obeyed God and even asked the Father to forgive them.

 

Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

And they divided up his clothes by casting lots. – Luke 23:34 (NIV)

 

Stephen, a Jewish man who followed Yeshua (Jesus), was the first martyr for Jesus. He did not kill anybody. When he was being stoned, he followed Jesus’ example of forgiveness and prayed: “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” – Acts 7:60 (NIV)

 

 When Jesus’ followers were being tortured and killed for their faith in him, they did not fight.

The Fox’s Book of Martyrs shows how many people did not fight their enemies,

but rather suffered horrible deaths for the precious name of Jesus Christ.

http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/fox101.htm

 
 

 

  In the previous example, but not nice example, let's think that those who kill your family, they are part of a group that your forgiveness  doesn't leads to salvation and they assertive and want to kill all of your city! they want your city and... like Israel! If Jesus A.S  was there, told: oh What a lovely enemy! or stood in front of them? this isn't the wey of  the Messenger of God that be silent in the face of oppression and If he can not help them with hand at least help them with his tongue. Prophets are the helper oppressed. we should act like them.

 

 

Did Jesus Christ lead his people the Jews into fighting against Rome?

Do you know what Rome did to Jerusalem, to the Temple, to the Jews?

One of the many reasons why many Jewish people do not accept Jesus as the Messiah (Christ/Anointed One/King) is because he did not lead his people into fighting against their Roman oppressors.

 

I have a question for you please.

Have you ever asked God, “Why didn’t Jesus Christ lead the Jews into fighting

and conquering the Romans?”

 

I have asked God this question, and there is a very awesome reason:

God loves the Romans too, and wants both the Jews and the Gentiles (anyone is who is not Jewish) to decide to follow Jesus Christ.

 

 What do you think about that?!  It turns out that you do not know anything about our religion! yes will horribly continue to exist until Jesus A.S and Imam Mahdi A.S  return. BUT What's wrong with we're trying to remove one of the symbols of oppression? What is our duty until they return?  

 

 

What’s wrong is that innocent people die. For example, after 9/11, the US government, disobedient to Jesus Christ’s command to love enemies, killed thousands of innocent people in Afghanistan and then in Iraq, trying to remove  “symbols of oppression.” (The Taliban are known for oppressing women and Saddam Hussein is known for oppressing Shia Muslims.) What happened? Afghanistan is suffering, and Iraq is dying in the clutches of IS. War is one of the main tools of satan to destroy God’s beautiful Creation, including the lives of precious children.

 

Is that what you want to happen to America? Is that what you want to happen to Iran?

 

Peace and God bless you

 

 

  Salam

Somehow, I don't get the problem here? I mean, they say America not Americans.

 

 

Salam Noor – al-Batul,



 

 I always hear people say things like "Stupid America" - and everyone knows that they mean the government is stupid not the people living there. Isn't that normal? That, if you have something against a government, you insult or whatever by saying "France/Germany/America" - I thought that's the norm. Or maybe the environment I live in is just weird...

 

 

Have you ever been to the USA? Saying “Death to ….” is considered a death wish and a death threat. Saying someone or something is "stupid" is not considered a death wish or a death threat; it's not nice though and is considered in some places as bullying. For example, my Mom forbids that word in her house, because it is not polite nor kind.

 

While possibly many Iranians are ignorant of American culture, many Americans are ignorant of Iranian culture. Many Americans say what they mean. If an American says “Death to Germany” or Death to Iran”, you may be assured that death is what that American wishes for all that country, including the people. A country, unless unpeopled, includes the people.


 

 Though, it's easy to say 'forget and forgive' if you're not amongst the people living in these states.

 

 

True.

 

 

 Besides, people should be judged by their actions not their words, only (because, honestly, people say a lot of things, in the end, what they do is what counts)

 

 

Jesus Christ says, But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart,

and these defile them.  

For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.” – Matthew 15:18-19 (NIV)

 



 

-       but that's hard if you only want to see the bad in someone.

 

 

Do people in Iran only want to see the bad in America, and not the good? What do Iranians like about America?


 


Wa salam.

 

 

Peace and God bless you

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 Hello Repenter,

 

hh, it's easy to pick out happy sounding verses from the bible and then portray it as the image of Christianity.

 

 

Like you are accusing me, some people could accuse Muslims influenced by the modern West of picking out the “happy sounding verses” from the Qur’an and portray them as the image of Islam.

 

Let's have a short examination shall we?

 

 Sure.

 

So we conclude that Jesus (pbup) agrees with the old testament.

 

 

Yes.

 

If anything, he talks about how awesome Moses was more than anyone else.

 

 

Actually, Jesus Christ says this:

 

“If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.” – John 5:46 (NIV)

 

Jesus Christ also said that Abraham saw Jesus’ day and was glad, and “before Abraham was born, I am!”

which motivated the hearers to want to stone Jesus to death:

 

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

– John 8:56-59 (NIV)

 

 

So we see that either Matthew is lying or he is telling the truth and everything else in the new testament that counters his claims are false.

 

For the sake of argument, let's assume Matthew is telling the truth. 

 

 

God protected His Word; God is not weak.

 

Let's take a look at the old testament shall we?

 

 And there is many many more verses like that. So in which part between God killing babies and priests slaughtering people does Jesus of the New testament say we have to turn the other cheek and then love the people we are slaughtering?

 

 

Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” – Matthew 5:17-18

 

Fulfills means to complete. For example, when you fulfill an assignment, you complete it.

 

Jesus Christ fulfills the Law and the Prophets.

 

Jesus Christ fulfills Jewish Scripture. The following verses show how important it is that Jesus Christ fulfills Scripture:   

(I boldened some.)

 

All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:  

“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[isaiah 7:14] (which means “God with us”).

– Matthew 1:22-23 (NIV)

 

When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream.

“Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt.

Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, where he stayed until the death of Herod.

And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”[Hosea 11:1]

- Matthew 2:13-15 (NIV)

 

Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali—

to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah:

“Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali, the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles— 

the people living in darkness have seen a great light;

on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.”[Isaiah 9:1,2]

 From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” – Matthew 4:13-17 (NIV)

“When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him,

and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.

This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:

“He took up our infirmities and bore our diseases.”[Isaiah 53:4] - Matthew 8:16-17 (NIV)

 

Aware of this, Jesus withdrew from that place.

A large crowd followed him, and he healed all who were ill. He warned them not to tell others about him. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:

“Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight;

I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.

He will not quarrel or cry out;  no one will hear his voice in the streets.

A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,

till he has brought justice through to victory.  

In his name the nations will put their hope.”[Isaiah 42:1-4] - Matthew 12:15-21 (NIV)

 

“Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him.

With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword,

drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him,

“for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.  

Do you think I cannot call on my Father,

and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion,

that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me?

Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me.

But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.”

Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.” – Matthew 26:50-56 (NIV)

 

 

Jesus Christ fulfilled (completed) the requirements for animal sacrifices, though the Jewish people who rejected him did not understand that. He fulfilled the death penalty for certain sins, taking it upon himself as the Lamb of God (Genesis 22:8; John 1:29).

 

Jesus Christ is the New Covenant that Jeremiah says (Jeremiah 31:31)

and is the covenant for the peoples (both Jews and Gentiles) –

 

“And now, the Lord, Who formed me from the womb as a servant to Him, said to bring Jacob back to Him, and Israel shall be gathered to Him, and I will be honored in the eyes of the Lord, and my God was my strength.  And He said, "It is too light for you to be My servant, to establish the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the besieged of Israel, but I will make you a light of nations, so that My salvation shall be until the end of the earth." So said the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, his Holy One, about him who is despised of men, about him whom the nation abhors, about a slave of rulers, "Kings shall see and rise, princes, and they shall prostrate themselves, for the sake of the Lord Who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel, and He chose you." So said the Lord, "In a time of favor I answered you, and on a day of salvation I helped you; and I will watch you, and I will make you for a people of a covenant, to establish a land, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages.” – Isaiah 49:5-8  http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15980

 

 

“Incline your ear and come to Me, hearken and your soul shall live, and I will make for you an everlasting covenant, the dependable mercies of David.  Behold, a witness to nations have I appointed him, a ruler and a commander of nations. Behold, a nation you do not know you shall call, and a nation that did not know you shall run to you, for the sake of the Lord your God and for the Holy One of Israel, for He glorified you. Seek the Lord when He is found, call Him when He is near. The wicked shall give up his way, and the man of iniquity his thoughts, and he shall return to the Lord, Who shall have mercy upon him, and to our God, for He will freely pardon. - Isaiah 55:3-7 http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15986

 

 

In any case, Jesus himself apparently didn't turn his other cheeks and loved his enemies when he said:

"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Like 19:27)

 

 

Did Jesus Christ fight his arrest? No. Did Jesus Christ fight the Roman soldiers who were beating him and torturing him and who put him on the cross? No.

 

When Jesus returns, he will destroy those who do not want him to reign over them. However, that has not happened yet. Until Jesus Christ returns, those who love him are to obey his commands (John 14:15) and Jesus’ commands include loving enemies (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-37).

 

Peace and God bless you

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 Hello Repenter,

 

 

Like you are accusing me, some people could accuse Muslims influenced by the modern West of picking out the “happy sounding verses” from the Qur’an and portray them as the image of Islam.

 

Of course I'm accusing you, i'm not sure which part of that was unclear. I'm accusing you in debate and some of the claims you either make, or hint to. It's part of debate. 

 

But, for this to be fruitful, please answer point by point and don't divert. If i say Jesus said x or john said y, it's completely pointless of you to say "actually jesus said z". Saying z does not eliminate my point about x. As a matter of fact it sometimes shows how much counter statements there is. So stick to the point please. 

 

And  yes, if someone uses one line of the Quran and says this is the message of Quran, then that person is equally at fault. It has to be presented in context and examined properly. 

 

 

 

Yes

 

Actually, Jesus Christ says this:

 

“If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.” – John 5:46 (NIV)

 

Jesus Christ also said that Abraham saw Jesus’ day and was glad, and “before Abraham was born, I am!”

which motivated the hearers to want to stone Jesus to death:

 

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

– John 8:56-59 (NIV)

 

 

 

God protected His Word; God is not weak.

 

Ok, the top part is an example of unnecessary quoting that is irrelevant. What do you mean by "Actually"? How does that counter or add to the point i made about Moses being mentioned more than anyone else in the bible, mostly in positive image, hence how awesome he is?

 

The last line is confusing. If we agree that God and Jesus are separate and that Jesus can't do anything without the father(God) then yes I agree, God is not weak. But if you claim that Jesus had all the powers of God and could use them at will then your bible disagrees with you, many examples, one being Mark 6:5 “And he could there do no mighty work”. If you say they are same but separate, then you are claiming something Jesus never did. 

Anyways, that is beyond the subject. And why on earth did God the almighty hide from stones? 

 

And how do you speak on God's behalf? You claim God protected his word as if he told you personally. God chooses what he wants to do, maybe he choose to not protect it to see how people treat it? If it is protected, then why is there many different versions (dont confuse version with translation)? Every year they come up with a new revised edition with either removed or added texts and verses.  

 

 

 

 

 

Fulfills means to complete. For example, when you fulfill an assignment, you complete it.

 

Yes, if we are speaking English Fulfill means complete. I don't see how this is an answer? Quoting irrelevant parts of the Bible doesn't get us anywhere. Complete doesn't  mean to abandon and make up new stuff. Complete means to put it into action. You study and read, and you fulfill your assignment by taking an exam. If the exam has nothing to do with the stuff you studied then it's really pointless don't you think?

 

In addition to that, i quoted you 3 verses that follow each other, why did you ignore the last one? 

 

5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

Who is he speaking to here? Which commandments? He is clearly saying whoever breaks the commandments of the last testament is on the wrong path and whoever breaks them is on the wrong path and will be awarded less.

Every time i ask a Christian to explain these important things, I get a goodietooshoes story about love and hugging etc and i end up with no answer. But that's just The Old Testament cop-out doesn't really work on anyone with an average amount of logic and 30 minutes of reading. 

 

 

 

Jesus Christ fulfilled (completed) the requirements for animal sacrifices, though the Jewish people who rejected him did not understand that. He fulfilled the death penalty for certain sins, taking it upon himself as the Lamb of God (Genesis 22:8; John 1:29).

 

Again, i'll play along but we need to stick to the subject. First of all, the Genesis verse is not about Jesus. You can't connect the word "Lamb" to Jesus as you see fit to make an argument. 

Now on to John and the rest of the disciples. 

 

All his disciples fled during his alleged crucifixion. Mark 14:50. So basically non of them actually witnessed it. They just heard that it happened. 

Hence why when Jesus came back after 3/3 they were all spooked(Luke 24 : 37-43)

They "supposed" they saw a Spirit. Then Jesus himself says "spirit" does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. He then asks for food and eats. For what? He was proving a point.

 

This is the logic of Christians that I can't grasp. 

Jesus says he is not a spirit, you say he is. 

Jesus says im not God im a servant of God, you say he God. 

Jesus says he doesn't know about judgement day, you say he does. 

Jesus says i can't do anything of my own, you say he can do whatever he wants.

 

I mean, we are all speaking the same language no?

 

 

 

Did Jesus Christ fight his arrest? No. Did Jesus Christ fight the Roman soldiers who were beating him and torturing him and who put him on the cross? No.

 

How is this relevant to what I said? Did Jesus play basketball? Answer to the verse i quoted. 

 

 

 

When Jesus returns, he will destroy those who do not want him to reign over them. However, that has not happened yet. Until Jesus Christ returns, those who love him are to obey his commands (John 14:15) and Jesus’ commands include loving enemies (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-37).

 

Well at least this time we will given the choice of following Jesus's commands and not John and Paul. I still don't see how this is relevant.

And you completely ignored all the brutal and violent verses i quoted to you from the Bible. 

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Jesus is real. Jesus is one of the Prophet's of God. Muhammad is real. Muhammad is one of the Prophet's of God. Moses is real. Moses is one of the Prophet's of God.

Christianity is real. Judism is real. Islam is real.

Christians follow only 1 God. Jews follow only 1 God. Shias follow only 1 God.

Every book has its own way to teach their religion. Each of the book do not preach negative moral behaviors. So what are we fighting about? Nonsense of course. If you were to combine all three books, you would see a story that fits together. If you were to compare the three books, you would find yourself questioning what God truly wished for us.

Think about this. In Quran it tells us not to side with disbelievers, but I base my hypothesis that disbelievers mean people who do not believe in 1 divine God, nothing more. This is my reasoning because of Imam Ali's compiled Quran which has all the verses in the right order. Abu Bakhr/Ummar just mixed the verses so that it could go in the favor. Thats why the Quran is protected.

My opinion is, all religions are correct if they believe in only 1 divine God. Quran however, is the best Hadith meaning the other books are useable as well to all.

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Of course I'm accusing you, i'm not sure which part of that was unclear. I'm accusing you in debate and some of the claims you either make, or hint to. It's part of debate. 

 

Hello Repenter,

 

So then, since you are accusing me of picking the "happy" verses of the Bible in order to portray them as the image of Christianity, do you deny that many Muslims influenced by the West are picking the "happy" verses of the Qur'an in order to portray them as the image of Islam?

 

What do you believe for example concerning Qur’an 9:29, which Sura is considered the 113th in the order of the revelations, according to http://al-quran.info/#menu ?

 

 

But, for this to be fruitful, please answer point by point and don't divert. If i say Jesus said x or john said y, it's completely pointless of you to say "actually jesus said z". Saying z does not eliminate my point about x. As a matter of fact it sometimes shows how much counter statements there is. So stick to the point please. 

 

 

The first Bible verse you quoted in post #17 is Matthew 5:17-19.

 

Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. When Jesus Christ fulfills an aspect of the Law and the Prophets, it no longer needs to be fulfilled again.

 

For example, when you fulfill a class assignment, do you need to do that class assignment again and again? No. Once you have satisfactorily fulfilled the assignment, you no longer need to fulfill it again. It is completed.

 

Let’s see how Jesus Christ completed (fulfilled) the Law that you quoted:

 

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15)

 

 

When Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God (Genesis 22:8; John 1:29), died on the cross, he took upon himself the death penalty for everyone who strikes his father or mother, thus fulfilling/completing with his own body this law.

 

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9)

 

 

 

When Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God (Genesis 22:8; John 1:29), died on the cross, he took upon himself the death penalty for priests’ daughters committing fornication, thus fulfilling/completing with his own body this law. While he was not burned to death, his agony and pain were severe and were accepted by the Father.  

 

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12)

 

 

When Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God (Genesis 22:8; John 1:29), died on the cross, he took upon himself the death penalty for all who reject the verdict of the judge or priest, thus fulfilling/completing with his own body this law. By the way, the high priest condemned Jesus Christ to death, though not for rejecting his verdict, but rather for claiming that he is the Messiah, the Son of God:

 

“But Jesus remained silent.

 

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

 

 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

 

Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.What do you think?”

 

“He is worthy of death,” they answered.

 

Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him and said, “Prophesy to us, Messiah. Who hit you?”

 – Matthew 26:63-68 (NIV)

 

 

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

 

 

When Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God (Genesis 22:8; John 1:29), died on the cross, he took upon himself the death penalty for all who entice others to serve other gods, thus fulfilling/completing with his own body this law.

 

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.  (Isaiah 14:21)

 

 

Isaiah 14:4-23 is actually against Babylon; Babylon destroyed the Temple and enslaved many Jewish people. Please read the context. It was not the Jewish people who slaughtered Babylon’s sons. If I remember correctly, it was the rising Medo-Persian Empire who slaughtered Babylon (Iraq)’s sons?

 

By the way, what do you think of Isaiah 14:1-2?

 

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18)

 

 

Isaiah 13 is a prophecy against Babylon. The Jewish people did not dash the Babylon children to death; the Medes did.

 

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.  (Jeremiah 48:10)

 

 

Jeremiah 48 is a prophecy against Moab, who ridiculed Israel:

 

Was not Israel the object of your ridicule? Was she caught among thieves,

that you shake your head in scorn whenever you speak of her? – Jeremiah 48:27 (NIV)

 

It’s important to remember that much of the Tanakh (Old Testament) contains the history of Jacob/Israel’s descendants, and what happened to their enemies.

 

 

And yes, if someone uses one line of the Quran and says this is the message of Quran, then that person is equally at fault. It has to be presented in context and examined properly. 

 

 

It is important to do the same thing with the Bible, to present the topic in context and examine it properly.

 

Ok, the top part is an example of unnecessary quoting that is irrelevant. What do you mean by "Actually"?

 

 

I mean the definition of actually.

 

 

How does that counter or add to the point i made about Moses being mentioned more than anyone else in the bible, mostly in positive image, hence how awesome he is?

 

 

Jesus Christ actually talked more about himself (many times in the third person as the Son of Man) than he did about Moses. Many Jewish people who rejected Jesus as the Messiah (Christ/Anointed One/King) did so because they focused on Moses instead of on God’s promise He gave to Moses about the “prophet like Moses” from among them (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Deuteronomy 34:10-12; John 1:45; John 5:46; Acts 3:20-25).

 

 

The last line is confusing. If we agree that God and Jesus are separate and that Jesus can't do anything without the father(God) then yes I agree, God is not weak. But if you claim that Jesus had all the powers of God and could use them at will then your bible disagrees with you, many examples, one being Mark 6:5 “And he could there do no mighty work”. If you say they are same but separate, then you are claiming something Jesus never did. 

 

 

I am saying that God protected His Word from corruption.

 

Anyways, that is beyond the subject. And why on earth did God the almighty hide from stones? 

 

 

Could you please quote the verse to which you are referring? Thank you.

 

And how do you speak on God's behalf?

 

 

Jesus Christ promised his followers the Spirit of Truth to be in us and with us forever (John chapters 14-16; Acts 2). God’s Spirit makes true followers of Jesus Christ His ambassadors.

 

You claim God protected his word as if he told you personally.

God chooses what he wants to do,

 

 

True, including begetting a son (not through sexual reproduction, but through His own creative power)

 

 “I will tell of the decree; The Lord said to me, "You are My son; this day have I begotten you.”

- Psalm 2:7 http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16223

 

maybe he choose to not protect it to see how people treat it?

 

God promises that His Word endures forever (Isaiah 40:8).

 

If it is protected, then why is there many different versions (dont confuse version with translation)? Every year they come up with a new revised edition with either removed or added texts and verses.

 

 

 

Language includes many different way to say things. For example, you asked why I wrote “Actually.” I could have used a different word to transmit the meaning. I could have written “really” or “in fact” or “It is important to note” or other ways to transmit meaning. Language is simply the tool for transmitting ideas. All the versions are simply different ways to transmit the same ideas.

 

The Qur’an, for example, has been translated in different ways with different words, yet the meanings are the same. While some Arab Muslims allege that the Qur’an can only be understood in Arabic, it seems they do not realize that language is simply a method to transmit facts and ideas. Facts and ideas are the same regardless of the different words for them, regardless of the language.

 

For example, the fact is a cat is a cat no matter if you call it a gato (Spanish) or the name for cat in any other language. In the same way, a fact or idea is the same no matter the language in which it is shared.

 

Yes, if we are speaking English Fulfill means complete. I don't see how this is an answer? Quoting irrelevant parts of the Bible doesn't get us anywhere. Complete doesn't  mean to abandon and make up new stuff. Complete means to put it into action. You study and read, and you fulfill your assignment by taking an exam. If the exam has nothing to do with the stuff you studied then it's really pointless don't you think?

 

 

Complete means to finish. Once you fulfill your assignment, do you have to continue doing that exact same assignment forever? Yes or no.

 

In addition to that, i quoted you 3 verses that follow each other, why did you ignore the last one?

5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Who is he speaking to here? Which commandments? He is clearly saying whoever breaks the commandments of the last testament is on the wrong path and whoever breaks them is on the wrong path and will be awarded less.

 

 

 

Jesus Christ is speaking to his disciples (Matthew 5:1) and is teaching them his commands. Let’s continue reading in context to see Jesus’ commands accounted simply in Matthew 5:

 

Indirect command #1: Don’t allow anger to control you; don’t call people fool (Matthew 5:22).

 

Direct command #1: Reconcile with your brother or sister (Matthew 5:21-22) before offering your gift to God at the altar.

 

Direct command #2: Settle matters quickly with your adversary (Matthew 5:25).

 

Indirect command #2: Don’t look at a person not your spouse lustfully (Mathew 5:28).

 

Direct command #3. Jesus uses hyperbole (an extreme figure of speech) that teaches that it is better to cut out one’s own eye or cut off one’s own hand than to commit adultery in the heart (Matthew 5:29-30). Since most people are not going to obey this command, the option is to not lust after people! Please note that Jesus Christ did not command his followers to cut off other people’s hands or cut out other peoples’ eyes who are guilty of lust. Rather, each person is responsible to take responsibilty to not lust.

 

This reminds me of Job’s covenant with his eyes to not lust:

 

I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a young woman. For what is our lot from God above, our heritage from the Almighty on high? Is it not ruin for the wicked, disaster for those who do wrong? Does he not see my ways and count my every step? Job 31:1-4 (NIV)

 

Indirect command #3: Don’t divorce except for adultery (Matthew 5:32) and don’t marry a divorced person.

 

Direct command #4: Don’t swear. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. Keep your word (Matthew 5:34-37).

 

Direct command #5:  "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.  And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.  Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.” – Matthew 5:39-42 (NIV)

 

Direct command #6: “But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,” –Matthew 5:44

 

Direct command #7: “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” – Matthew 5:48

 

It is extremely difficult to obey the above commands; only through God’s help through His Spirit can we obey Jesus Christ’s commands. These are not the only commands Jesus commands, but they are very important. Perfection for God’s glory is the goal, because that pleases Him.

 

Personally, I am most definitely not perfect and I have a long way to go in growing. However, God is patient and loving and He helps me grow, like a plant, slowly but surely in His marvelous light!

 

I am going to need to make the reply 2 parts, since I just received the "You have posted more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text" message. Thank you for your patience.

 

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Every time i ask a Christian to explain these important things, I get a goodietooshoes story about love and hugging etc and i end up with no answer. 

 

 

 

God’s love is the foundation of following Jesus Christ. Hugs are a nice way to show love, though love is much more profound than a hug.

 

But that's just The Old Testament cop-out doesn't really work on anyone with an average amount of logic and 30 minutes of reading.

 

 

It takes years for most people (including me) as we grow in following Jesus Christ. Following Jesus Christ is an amazing journey that shows us how desperately we need God’s love and mercy and grace, which He provides in Jesus Christ!

 

 

Again, i'll play along but we need to stick to the subject. First of all, the Genesis verse is not about Jesus.

 

 

 

Jesus Christ said that Abraham saw his (Jesus) day, and was glad:

 

 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

At this, they picked up stones to stone him,

but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. - John 8:56-59 (NIV)

 

 

You can't connect the word "Lamb" to Jesus as you see fit to make an argument. 

 

 

I am not the one who first connected the word “Lamb” to Jesus. John the Baptist did:

 

 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,

“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” – John 1:29 (NIV)

 

I believe John the Baptist’s testimony, as well as the testimonies of the apostles who walked and talked with Jesus Christ.

 

Now on to John and the rest of the disciples. 

All his disciples fled during his alleged crucifixion. Mark 14:50. So basically non of them actually witnessed it. They just heard that it happened. 

 

 

They all fled initially but then Peter followed Jesus Christ at a distance, which led tohis denying Jesus Christ (Matthew 26:58; 69-74). Another apostle also followed Jesus after initially fleeing (John 18:15).

 

Hence why when Jesus came back after 3/3 they were all spooked(Luke 24: 37-43)

 

 

They did not understand that Jesus would rise from the dead.

 

They "supposed" they saw a Spirit. Then Jesus himself says "spirit" does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. He then asks for food and eats. For what? He was proving a point.

 

 

Jesus' point is that he rose from the dead; he died, and rose from the dead.

 

This is the logic of Christians that I can't grasp. 

Jesus says he is not a spirit, you say he is. 

 

 

Jesus proved that he is not a ghost, but rather that he did truly rise from the dead (Luke 24: 37-43).

 

Jesus says im not God im a servant of God, you say he God. 

 

 

Jesus Christ is the Son of God (1 Chronicles 17:11-15; Psalm 2:6-7; Psalm 89:26-28; Isaiah 9:6-7; Luke 1:30-35; Matthew 16:16-17; John 11:4, 25-27).

 

Jesus says he doesn't know about judgement day, you say he does. 

 

 

Where did I say that Jesus knows when the Judgment Day will take place?

Jesus does say in third person (calling himself the son of man) that he will return: Matthew 24:30-36.

Jesus states that only the Father knows when.

 

 

Jesus says i can't do anything of my own, you say he can do whatever he wants.

 

 

Where did I say that Jesus can do whatever he wants, cut off from the Father? If he wanted, Jesus could have asked the Father for angels to come destroy his enemies. How do I know this? Cause Jesus said so:

“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?” - Matthew 26:52-54 (NIV)

 

 

I mean, we are all speaking the same language no?

 

 

 

Please do not "put words into my mouth" that I did not say or write.

 

 

How is this relevant to what I said? Did Jesus play basketball? Answer to the verse i quoted. 

 

 

It is relevant because Jesus Christ did not fight those who arrested him.

 

The verse you quoted (Luke 19:27) is one verse taken completely out of context. Below is the whole context:

 

While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once.  He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’

 

“But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’

 

 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

 

“The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’

 

 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

 

 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’

 

“His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’

 

 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth.  I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’

 

 

“His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’

 

“Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

 

 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

 

“He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.  But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’

– Luke 19:11-27 (NIV)

 

If you read the passage in context, you will see that Jesus told a parable (an earthly story with spiritual meaning) to explain that his followers are responsible for using their talents to reproduce them for God.

 

When Jesus Christ returns, his servants the angels will kill those who do not want him to be king over them. However, his human servants will be rewarded based on what they did with their talents. If you compare this parable to the parable of the weeds, angels are Jesus’ servants who destroy the “weeds” (Please read Matthew 13:24-29; Matthew 13:36-43).

 

When Jesus returns, he will destroy those who do not want him to reign over them. However, that has not happened yet. Until Jesus Christ returns, those who love him are to obey his commands (John 14:15) and Jesus’ commands include loving enemies (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-37).

 

Well at least this time we will given the choice of following Jesus's commands and not John and Paul. I still don't see how this is relevant.

 

 

It answers the verse you took out of a parable Jesus told.

 

And you completely ignored all the brutal and violent verses i quoted to you from the Bible. 

 

 

I have just addressed them. Please kindly answer my questions to you in this post.

Thank you so much.

 

Peace and God bless you

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Why don't the Christian people here -who by the way believe in the cancellation of "Biblical" "verses" with some silly excuses- derail the threads here?

 

If they want to speak about their religion, they should do it in the interfaith section, don't you think so?

 

Why should we see silly posts and rants of some blinded fan of the Greatest Devil (monster, invader, plunderer, usurper, meddler, etc.) USA Regime, use a book -half of which she does not believe in- and derail every thread?

 

If she is to speak about her religion, then she should do it on the interfaith forums. Why do you let her derail every thread? She must read and follow the rules and not derail threads with half Bible and half American-Secular beliefs or else should be banned.

 

Thanks.

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Hello Khudayar,

 

 

Why don't the Christian people here -who by the way believe in the cancellation of "Biblical" "verses" with some silly excuses- derail the threads here?

 

If they want to speak about their religion, they should do it in the interfaith section, don't you think so?

 

Why should we see silly posts and rants of some blinded fan of the Greatest Devil (monster, invader, plunderer, usurper, meddler, etc.) USA Regime, use a book -half of which she does not believe in- and derail every thread?

 

If she is to speak about her religion, then she should do it on the interfaith forums. Why do you let her derail every thread? She must read and follow the rules and not derail threads with half Bible and half American-Secular beliefs or else should be banned.

 

Thanks.

 

I am thankful to Shiachat for allowing Non-Shias to post and explain their viewpoints. That shows remarkable tolerance and consideration on their part.

 

Thankfully, my country the USA allows Shia and Sunni Muslims to express their beliefs as well as Christians, Atheists, Buddhists, and people no matter their beliefs. It would make me very sad if the USA banned Muslims from politics, because Muslims are citizens of the USA too and deserve the same rights as people of other beliefs or no belief in God.

 

I am curious. Do you love me as a sister in humanity?

 

I love you and what is more important, God loves you way more than any human ever could!!! :)

 

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady
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