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In the Name of God بسم الله

Really ! Why Am I Not Surprised

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karbalah

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....Christians use Sunni sources to prove that the prophet Saaw was a false prophet ...

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/muhammad-false-prophet.html

To see whether or not Muhammad was a false prophet, let's start with the passage in the Bible in which God, according to Muslims, foretells Moses about Muhammad:

"I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him." (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)

Is Muhammad the Prophet that God promised in this passage?

The verses that immediate follow the above verses read:

"But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ - when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him." (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)

A prophet of God is the mouthpiece of God, who is perfect and never wrong. Therefore, when someone claims to be speaking as instructed by God and then makes a false statement, that person "has spoken presumptuously" and is not God's prophet.

Did Muhammad make any such false statement?

When Muhammad conquered the pagan Mecca, it worshipped 360 idols. The four most important among them were the moon god, "Sin", also known as "Hubal", also known as "Allah", and his three daughters: Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Al-Manat.

Muhammad's attempt to impose monotheism by keeping just Allah and ridding the other 359 Meccan idols faced resistance from Meccans who held Allah's three daughters very dear.

Eager to be accepted as a prophet in his native Mecca, Muhammad initially conceded that Allah approved of Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Al-Manat. But unable to reconcile three extra goddesses with his declared monotheism, Muhammad later reversed himself, confessing, "I have fabricated things against Allah and have imputed to him words which he has not spoken." (Al Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. 6, p.111) and said he had mistaken the words of "Satan" (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp.165-166) as Allah's.

Given Allah's true identity, the words of Allah and Satan would not be hard to confuse. Had Muhammad claimed to be a prophet of the God of the Bible, however, someone who hears from Satan, mistakes Satan's words as God's and fabricates "things against" God is a false prophet whom God said above, "shall die".

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(salam)

Yup, this is what happens when you don't take your religion from the Ahlul bait  (as). This alone proves that sunnism is the wrong way. 

The image of prophet Muhammad  (pbuh) which is portrayed today in the western world, is all because of sunni sources which insults and falsely accuses our prophet  (pbuh) and the sunnis are proud of it too. What a shame. 

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Lol yeah. They (the scholars) believe much worse hadiths than just these, which if I were to describe would be ban-worthy I think. Unfortunately, the majority of regular Sunnis don't know the existence of many of hadiths and they aren't really to blame... they're simply brain washed with certain ideologies in school under the pretense it is all from the Quran so that later in life it becomes tough for them to research for themselves... well like I said because of the pre-tense everything is from the quran therefore they think they don't have to bother researching... 

Edited by dragonxx
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How can a sunni defend his religion when his own sect has enough holes in it to sink it .

And I did not mean hai religion as in different religion unless his a Wahhabi then that automatically makes every one else a kafir

I mean ideology that your are right and you follow the right path

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Basically the process is, the schools teach the students at a young age the foundations of Islam and this solidifies the idea that they're on the straight path (which they are at the time), however after that is solidified, random claims are thrown at them like ibn al-khattab is as great if not greater than Imam Ali (as), and the students accept it because the teachers insinuate that this is backed up by the Quran and hadiths from "Sahih" Bukhari and muslim (which often the students have never read, and in fact the majority of students especially these days don't even know what sunni madhab they belong to). So by teaching basic Quranic principles and providing references from the Quran, this is later used to deceive the students into thinking all of their other interpretations are perfect (ex. all companions are great and none are hypocrites, etc.) without proper reference, and this deludes the students into thinking it is backed Quranically and by hadiths.

 

In addition, important historical events unanimously acknowledged by sunnis and shias (events which favour shia of Ahlulbayt (as)) are often omitted or distorted.

 

The wahabis have built a cunning and despicable school curriculum within muslim countries and unfortunately youths are victimized every day, and have been for 100s of years. The result in present day?->ISIL (la)

Edited by dragonxx
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you 12er shia are a funny bunch.  There is no meeting between us and you, that's for sure.  What I don't get is why do you keep having unity seminars and conferences? really just stop it already.  And we didn't leave ahl bayt, we simply did not turn them into something they were not.  At best 15% of the whole and still throwing stones.  I'm just glad these christians haven't found your books yet because only God know what they will say then :blink: .  You are a small minority, why would they look at your sources? For the sake of all who identify as muslim I hope they never do but we do live in a tiny world now so, I'm just waiting for it :(

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you 12er shia are a funny bunch.  There is no meeting between us and you, that's for sure.  What I don't get is why do you keep having unity seminars and conferences? really just stop it already.  And we didn't leave ahl bayt, we simply did not turn them into something they were not.  At best 15% of the whole and still throwing stones.  I'm just glad these christians haven't found your books yet because only God know what they will say then :blink: .  You are a small minority, why would they look at your sources? For the sake of all who identify as muslim I hope they never do but we do live in a tiny world now so, I'm just waiting for it :(

Imam Hussein (as) and his followers were also a small minority. Imam Ali (as) also had a minority of followers. Fact is, the Prophet (pbuh) also had a minority of true followers, otherwise the majority of muslims wouldn't have allowed his beloved grandson and the rest of his family to be slaughtered, abused and imprisoned.

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you 12er shia are a funny bunch.  There is no meeting between us and you, that's for sure.  What I don't get is why do you keep having unity seminars and conferences? really just stop it already.  And we didn't leave ahl bayt, we simply did not turn them into something they were not.  At best 15% of the whole and still throwing stones.  I'm just glad these christians haven't found your books yet because only God know what they will say then :blink: .  You are a small minority, why would they look at your sources? For the sake of all who identify as muslim I hope they never do but we do live in a tiny world now so, I'm just waiting for it :(

 

Whats wrong with you,

So only you sunni people are allowed to critique shia sources but when the opposite happens, we get dramas like this.

If anything, there is so much hate from the sunni side, (all you have to do is look at a sunni forum) and it is such notions that hinder unity. I find it so offensive when you say:   "I'm just glad these christians haven't found your books yet because only God know what they will say then.  You are a small minority, why would they look at your sources?" and here you are, telling us to stop having unity seminars and conferences.

I just get so much hate from you and i find it so offensive- if you have nothing logical and sustained to mention, then just keep quiet.

 

PS. being a minority is awesome- When you're part of the majority, you come to think that you're ultimately right because everyone else is doing it. When your a minority, you come to question the various faiths out there an it becomes such and enriching  learning experience.

Edited by safana
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you 12er shia are a funny bunch.  There is no meeting between us and you, that's for sure.  What I don't get is why do you keep having unity seminars and conferences? really just stop it already.  And we didn't leave ahl bayt, we simply did not turn them into something they were not.  At best 15% of the whole and still throwing stones.  I'm just glad these christians haven't found your books yet because only God know what they will say then :blink: .  You are a small minority, why would they look at your sources? For the sake of all who identify as muslim I hope they never do but we do live in a tiny world now so, I'm just waiting for it :(

 

There was/is an internal campaign to undermine the Prophet  Muhammad[pbuhahp], intent is to undermine Islam.

 

“If the religion of Muhammad cannot be saved except by the sacrifice of my head, Then, O swords, come and take it”. Imam Husain(as)

 

“Hal Min Nasirin Yansurna”

"IS THERE ANYONE TO HELP ME"

 

[Do we think, that Imam Hussain[as] needed help? ]

 

We can’t have a united front, until we fix the house. Muslims don’t even properly understand the Light[Nur}, Seal of the Prophets, Prophet Muhammad [pbuhahp].  How many people participated when people were leveling allegation of error, mistakes, sins, etc...what are we about to tell the non muslims that he was advised by his wiser companions, others had the foresight that he did not have in terms of succession plan, other saw it necessary to preserve the message in the book form, that he brought ...what are we telling them , that he was bewitched, etc…..

 

Among the Muslims, only Religious unity will be everlasting, and this “Mercy”  can only be achieved through the one sent as a Mercy to mankind.

Edited by S.M.H.A.
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Imam Hussein (as) and his followers were also a small minority. Imam Ali (as) also had a minority of followers. Fact is, the Prophet (pbuh) also had a minority of true followers, otherwise the majority of muslims wouldn't have allowed his beloved grandson and the rest of his family to be slaughtered, abused and imprisoned.

 

Fitna happened between the sahaba and certainly many members of ahl bayt were treated wrongly by the rulers of their time.  Many of the scholars of the time supported the ahl bayt, today these scholars are considered sunni.  what happened was not a simple matter but a complex situation.  Take for example what happened to imam hussein(ra), before he left for iraq his other family members told him not to go and not to trust the ppl of iraq but he left believing they would support him, they didn't.  I'm not going to debate this matter. I suggest you read the history from the shia view and the sunni view.  We love the ahl, all of them, to this day.  If we know someone is a descendent of the prophet(saw), we love and show immense respect.   Loving the ahl is part of our deen.  Difference between us and you is that we do not say their infallible.   How can someone be Muslim and not love the ahl?  We are simply not extreme in our love for them nor do we claim they are something they were not.  We reject your position and the position of the nawaasib.  This is our way.

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FOR GOD SAKE USE PARTICULAR THOUGHT NAME INSTEAD OF PLANE " SUNNI "

 

Ahle Hadees, Wahabi, Deobandi, Barelvy, Shafa'i, Maliki, KhanQai, etc all are coming under SUNNI sect. When you will write Sunni that means you are blaming all at once, and don't forget whenever you are talking about any sect ...

 

If you are really Ahle Tashio and you are claiming you are Ahle Tashio and If you are Proud that you are Ahle Tashio .. Then you must know what you Imam wants from you :-

 

Imam Ali (as) His Last Will and Testament :-

  • I advise you, and all my children, my relatives, and whosoever receives this message, to be conscious of Allah, to remove your differences, and to strengthen your ties. I heard your grandfather, peace be upon him, say: "Reconciliation of your differences is more worthy than all prayers and all fasting."

 

  • Maintain communication and exchange of opinion among yourselves. Beware of disunity and enmity. Do not desist from promoting good deeds and cautioning against bad ones. Should you do that, the worst among you would be your leaders, and you will call upon Allah without response.

 

Iran is struggling to unite people inside Muslim Ummah , and you guys are spreading hate. Within few sentence you wasted whole one year of " Hafte Wahdat ". The more you discuss the difference the more you are responsible for Terrorism due to Sectarian Violence. What is the use to discuss these differences ? Are you able to correct the mistakes which done in past ?

 

Christians are if so much in love with Prophet Isa (as) this Charli Hebdo make fun of Jesus too. They never do any thing , they are fully busy in there Drinks and Vines and Pork. Majority in them don't even care if Jesus care for them or they care for Jesus, they are just plane Athiest who are celebrating Christmas.

Edited by alirex
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No one is blaming current /past /naive Sunnis.

No one is stupid enough to think that what happened in the past was the current/past/naive  Sunni fault, nor that any one can correct the PAST  mistakes.

 

To take about the Truth, is not disunity. We have to talk about the Truth. To say that you are creating disunity, is  making the ones who want to keep the status quo, happy. Keep the muslims ignorant, have difference in even understanding of their Prophet. result is obvious.

Unless we are blind, reality is all around us.

Image of Islam is been distorted by these false ideologies, not what some shia are doing in Azadari. Non muslim could care less, what shia do in Azadari, They see “so called Muslims “ attack innocent people, driving planes into building in the name of some ‘god, massacring children in the name, of “god’ ISIL, decappating heads and playing with them , rejoicing in blood and gore ..and other so called Muslims are the Image issue.

 

We should not be PC, the fountain so muslims are drinking from is poisonous and its impacting all of us and the IMAGE of Islam. Need is to bring out the issues, so they understand where the fountain of Truth is i.e, Ahlul Bayt[as], way to understand Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp] , to understand Tawheed. This can’t be pushed under the rug, by labeling it creating  fitna, hatred,  disunity etc….we have some spending million, to turn shia on shia, on trivial issues, all our talk is centered around, finding so called faults in some shias...ITs a distraction from real Issue that are current and really matter.

I do not see the Image brigade, marching ...on real image issues that really matter to non muslims and the entire world.  Solution is not with the non muslims, or atheists, when we have people disrespecting our prophet, what are we blaming outsiders who use materials from the Muslims books...why are the scholars not addressing the real issue, what the people who know and read these tradition, still supporting them,  this is the Real IMAGE issue , that people need to get passionate about and have million page Threads ...we should be defending what is worth defending not some fantom issue of the day  , to keep the sheeps busy on daily basis.

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No one is blaming current /past /naive Sunnis.

No one is stupid enough to think that what happened in the past was the current/past/naive  Sunni fault, nor that any one can correct the PAST  mistakes.

 

To take about the Truth, is not disunity. We have to talk about the Truth. To say that you are creating disunity, is  making the ones who want to keep the status quo, happy. Keep the muslims ignorant, have difference in even understanding of their Prophet. result is obvious.

Unless we are blind, reality is all around us.

Image of Islam is been distorted by these false ideologies, not what some shia are doing in Azadari. Non muslim could care less, what shia do in Azadari, They see “so called Muslims “ attack innocent people, driving planes into building in the name of some ‘god, massacring children in the name, of “god’ ISIL, decappating heads and playing with them , rejoicing in blood and gore ..and other so called Muslims are the Image issue.

 

We should not be PC, the fountain so muslims are drinking from is poisonous and its impacting all of us and the IMAGE of Islam. Need is to bring out the issues, so they understand where the fountain of Truth is i.e, Ahlul Bayt[as], way to understand Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp] , to understand Tawheed. This can’t be pushed under the rug, by labeling it creating  fitna, hatred,  disunity etc….we have some spending million, to turn shia on shia, on trivial issues, all our talk is centered around, finding so called faults in some shias...ITs a distraction from real Issue that are current and really matter.

I do not see the Image brigade, marching ...on real image issues that really matter to non muslims and the entire world.  Solution is not with the non muslims, or atheists, when we have people disrespecting our prophet, what are we blaming outsiders who use materials from the Muslims books...why are the scholars not addressing the real issue, what the people who know and read these tradition, still supporting them,  this is the Real IMAGE issue , that people need to get passionate about and have million page Threads ...we should be defending what is worth defending not some fantom issue of the day  , to keep the sheeps busy on daily basis.

 

Why not write this all to Ayatullah Khamnei Rahbar-e-Moazzam , i guess he need this guidance more. He is continue telling ummah to be united, but i guess he forgot to ask you. Don't take me wrong but think on what i wrote above. 

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you 12er shia are a funny bunch.  There is no meeting between us and you, that's for sure.  What I don't get is why do you keep having unity seminars and conferences? really just stop it already.  And we didn't leave ahl bayt, we simply did not turn them into something they were not.  At best 15% of the whole and still throwing stones.  I'm just glad these christians haven't found your books yet because only God know what they will say then :blink: .  You are a small minority, why would they look at your sources? For the sake of all who identify as muslim I hope they never do but we do live in a tiny world now so, I'm just waiting for it :(

 

Peace be upon you brother,

 

Unity does not mean we put aside our theological differences. You can be a passionate follower of the sunni theology, and i can with the shia theology, and we can have disagreements, but unity means despite those disagreements we peacefully agree to disagree and unite on our fundamentals, and host events together, showing a united front, and not allowing misconceptions or lies to be said of one another , but to engage in peaceful , honest, truth seeking and enlightening dialogue.

 

The reason why i stated that leaving the ahlulbayt a.s led to this was not to attack sunni muslims. It was an objective statement.

 

You see brother, shias believe there is no way on earth Muhammed PBUH could have been bewitched. This would have greatly harmed his integrity and position, and opened him ridicule. In fact, people were already accusing him of being a bewitched man because they could not explain the miraculous arabic of the Quran.

 

We believe the Sunnah of Muhammed pbuh was corrupted, and hence lies like this started creeping in. 

 

Quran: "Why has a treasure not been laid out for him or a garden from which he could eat been given to him." The unjust ones say, "You are merely following a bewitched person"

 

 

Narrated Aisha:

Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400)

 

 

Another example would be frowning at the blind man. In the Quran it states "He frowned at the blind man". Our brothers and sisters in the sunni madhab state the one that frowned at the blind man was Muhammed pbuh. Shia's state this was one of the people in the congregation with Muhammed pbuh. People have used this statement - a prophet of God actually frowning at someone with a disability, to tarnish his image.

 

With regards to shia books, starting with Al Kafi, we take each hadith and apply Ilm Al Rijal(science of hadith), as well as other sciences to determine it's authenticity. We have no Sahih's.  Suffice to say no-one can pull a hadith, graded with any degree of authenticity, which blemishes Muhammed pbuh.

Fitna happened between the sahaba and certainly many members of ahl bayt were treated wrongly by the rulers of their time.  Many of the scholars of the time supported the ahl bayt, today these scholars are considered sunni.  what happened was not a simple matter but a complex situation.  Take for example what happened to imam hussein(ra), before he left for iraq his other family members told him not to go and not to trust the ppl of iraq but he left believing they would support him, they didn't.  I'm not going to debate this matter. I suggest you read the history from the shia view and the sunni view.  We love the ahl, all of them, to this day.  If we know someone is a descendent of the prophet(saw), we love and show immense respect.   Loving the ahl is part of our deen.  Difference between us and you is that we do not say their infallible.   How can someone be Muslim and not love the ahl?  We are simply not extreme in our love for them nor do we claim they are something they were not.  We reject your position and the position of the nawaasib.  This is our way.

 

I agree, we must not go to either extremes. If  i may ask brother, who are the Ahlulbayt a.s? 

Edited by Tawheed313
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We are simply not extreme in our love for them nor do we claim they are something they were not.  We reject your position and the position of the nawaasib.  This is our way.

Just like how you are extreme in your love and worship of the one wife only and the 3 caliphs. Quite a contrived view points you have. Thus we reject your position and  king ship worship too.

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We are simply not extreme in our love for them nor do we claim they are something they were not.  We reject your position and the position of the nawaasib.  This is our way.

 

That's good, one should not put anyone in front of the purified, the Ahlul Bayt (as). 

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Fitna happened between the sahaba and certainly many members of ahl bayt were treated wrongly by the rulers of their time.  Many of the scholars of the time supported the ahl bayt, today these scholars are considered sunni.  what happened was not a simple matter but a complex situation.  Take for example what happened to imam hussein(ra), before he left for iraq his other family members told him not to go and not to trust the ppl of iraq but he left believing they would support him, they didn't.  I'm not going to debate this matter. I suggest you read the history from the shia view and the sunni view.  We love the ahl, all of them, to this day.  If we know someone is a descendent of the prophet(saw), we love and show immense respect.   Loving the ahl is part of our deen.  Difference between us and you is that we do not say their infallible.   How can someone be Muslim and not love the ahl?  We are simply not extreme in our love for them nor do we claim they are something they were not.  We reject your position and the position of the nawaasib.  This is our way.

Sorry to correct you, however you completely avoided the original topic.

Your initial "conclusion" was that we are a minority, and therefore nobody should look at our sources. You did not challenge the content of our beliefs, rather you attacked us by the premise we are not a large enough population to be taken seriously, then redirected the topic completely.

 

Answer the question, was Imam Hussein (as) and his followers not considered a minority back then? Even if Ahlul Tawba joined him at Karbala, they still would've been considered minority. Were there not 120000+ companions of the Prophet (pbuh) by the time he passed away? Why were the majority apart of Yazid's army (la)? Did Imam Ali (as) not have a minority of true followers? Did not most of them break away from him when he was caliph?

You preach you love AhlulBayt (as) yet you support and follow their enemies. It's like your muslim kids or muslim father getting murdered by ISIL, then you join ISIL and follow their laws. What kind of logic is that? What kind of hypocrisy is that?

 

Since when does majority equate being correct and worthy of challenge?

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FOR GOD SAKE USE PARTICULAR THOUGHT NAME INSTEAD OF PLANE " SUNNI "

 

Ahle Hadees, Wahabi, Deobandi, Barelvy, Shafa'i, Maliki, KhanQai, etc all are coming under SUNNI sect. When you will write Sunni that means you are blaming all at once, and don't forget whenever you are talking about any sect ...

 

If you are really Ahle Tashio and you are claiming you are Ahle Tashio and If you are Proud that you are Ahle Tashio .. Then you must know what you Imam wants from you :-

 

Imam Ali (as) His Last Will and Testament :-

  • I advise you, and all my children, my relatives, and whosoever receives this message, to be conscious of Allah, to remove your differences, and to strengthen your ties. I heard your grandfather, peace be upon him, say: "Reconciliation of your differences is more worthy than all prayers and all fasting."

 

  • Maintain communication and exchange of opinion among yourselves. Beware of disunity and enmity. Do not desist from promoting good deeds and cautioning against bad ones. Should you do that, the worst among you would be your leaders, and you will call upon Allah without response.

 

Iran is struggling to unite people inside Muslim Ummah , and you guys are spreading hate. Within few sentence you wasted whole one year of " Hafte Wahdat ". The more you discuss the difference the more you are responsible for Terrorism due to Sectarian Violence. What is the use to discuss these differences ? Are you able to correct the mistakes which done in past ?

 

Christians are if so much in love with Prophet Isa (as) this Charli Hebdo make fun of Jesus too. They never do any thing , they are fully busy in there Drinks and Vines and Pork. Majority in them don't even care if Jesus care for them or they care for Jesus, they are just plane Athiest who are celebrating Christmas.

I agree with you, you are right, I'm all for unity.  But what are we uniting upon? please tell me.  

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Peace be upon you brother,

 

Unity does not mean we put aside our theological differences. You can be a passionate follower of the sunni theology, and i can with the shia theology, and we can have disagreements, but unity means despite those disagreements we peacefully agree to disagree and unite on our fundamentals, and host events together, showing a united front, and not allowing misconceptions or lies to be said of one another , but to engage in peaceful , honest, truth seeking and enlightening dialogue.

 

The reason why i stated that leaving the ahlulbayt a.s led to this was not to attack sunni muslims. It was an objective statement.

 

You see brother, shias believe there is no way on earth Muhammed PBUH could have been bewitched. This would have greatly harmed his integrity and position, and opened him ridicule. In fact, people were already accusing him of being a bewitched man because they could not explain the miraculous arabic of the Quran.

 

We believe the Sunnah of Muhammed pbuh was corrupted, and hence lies like this started creeping in. 

 

Quran: "Why has a treasure not been laid out for him or a garden from which he could eat been given to him." The unjust ones say, "You are merely following a bewitched person"

 

 

Narrated Aisha:

Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400)

 

 

Another example would be frowning at the blind man. In the Quran it states "He frowned at the blind man". Our brothers and sisters in the sunni madhab state the one that frowned at the blind man was Muhammed pbuh. Shia's state this was one of the people in the congregation with Muhammed pbuh. People have used this statement - a prophet of God actually frowning at someone with a disability, to tarnish his image.

 

With regards to shia books, starting with Al Kafi, we take each hadith and apply Ilm Al Rijal(science of hadith), as well as other sciences to determine it's authenticity. We have no Sahih's.  Suffice to say no-one can pull a hadith, graded with any degree of authenticity, which blemishes Muhammed pbuh.

 

I agree, we must not go to either extremes. If  i may ask brother, who are the Ahlulbayt a.s? 

In my humble opinion, our theological differences are the reasons ahl sunnah and 12er shia can not unite.  I can see ahl sunnah and the zaidiyyah uniting but not with 12er shia because our beliefs are so far apart that they resemble almost two completely different religions(however nothing is impossible with Allah).  And with all due respect 12er shia have very strange hadith in your books.  I really don't have the time to be posting them but if you insist I'll try to make time.

 

As for the surah al abasa with regards to the prophet (saw), frowning and turning from ibn umm maktum(blind cousin of Khadijah al-kubra, one of the early muslims), yes in our tafseer we believe the prophet (saw) was giving dawah directly to another person when ibn umm maktum came to him and started to ask him a question, either the prophet (saw) asked ibn umm maktum to wait or ibn umm maktum didn't hear the prophet (saw) clearly(I forgot this part, Allah knows best) but ibn umm maktum kept asking in a loud voice, at this the prophet turn to him and frowned. At this Allah (swt) revealed the beginnings of surah al-abasa.  To you as a shia based on how you where thought and what you believe this is some kind of a tarnish on the prophet's (saw) character but for me personally, wallahi this incident and what came after strengthened me and made my heart firm on Islam.  Everyone is inspired by different things, for me this was one of the moments that helped me.  It is a harsh surah, pointing out something rasolullah (saw) did, it was not a sin but he frowned and Allah (swt) immediately corrected him.  This book can be from no other than Allah(swt) and was not something made up by Muhammad(saw) himself.  Who would write a book and admonish himself in the book?  For me, I don't see this as a tarnish on the prophet's(saw) character.

 

It is my understanding that Ahl sunnah have a broader understanding of ahl bayt.  since you are already familiar with this website read for yourself.... I tired :lol: :http://islamqa.info/en/10055

 

I'm not here to debate anyone, I'm no scholar, just a layman.  May Allah forgive all my mistakes and yours. Ameen :D .

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Who said that there needs to be a Highschool style debate, with cheerleaders , cheering the winning side for undermining  the opponents point. Employing all the debating “tactics” to get a tactical win, why can’t us layman, have a normal, honest and objective discussion.  

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