Logical Reason For Music Being Haraam ?

[Ali.k]

Ok this issue has been bugging me for a long time now. I personally believe that music/songs are halal or haraam ONLY according to the content, NOT the instruments or genre of the music/song. 

 

Now there are still tons of muslims who blindy follow and say music is haraam no matter what or that instruments are haraam full stop. The reason I say they are people who 'blindly' follow is because everytime you ask them questions on this issue or to explain their view all they can do is quote what so and so said but fail to explain their stance through logic.

 

So now I am asking anyone who holds this view about music being haraam a question: GIVE ME A 'LOGICAL' EXPLANATION AS TO WHY MUSIC IS HARAAM ? (NOTE I DIDN'T ASK 'WHO SAID' MUSIC IS HARAAM OR 'WHERE' DOES IT SAY MUSIC IS HARAAM, I ASKED FOR LOGICAL REASONING)

 

For those of you who don't know the logical reason behind it but still choose to believe its haraam then I am sorry to say that you are blind following.

[Khalilallah]

From the Book "Logic for Islamic Laws"

 

Question: Why has Islam prohibited music, and what is the philosophy in prohibiting it?

Answer: Music has become so common that most people are not ready to think about music in its proper perspective (about the bad evil effect of the music) and follow ferociously this wrong way of thinking according to which whatever is in common practice is seen to be without blemish.

They are not ready to study the evil and pernicious effects of music. To the extent that the people who are realistic are not content to this condition also, and in spite of those things being common they always endeavor to understand the reality and are engaged in research.
Music from many viewpoints is worth investigation.

(1) It causes harm to the physics of human body and leaves a bad effect on the nervous system. Keeping these factors in mind a Professor of Columbia University, Dr. Wolf Adler says:
The best and most fascinating tunes of music leaves the worst kind of effects on the nervous system of humans and especially when the climate is hot; then the unpleasant effects are too much.

The famous French expert Dr. Lycus Carl says: “It is possible that the fulfillment of beastly lust might be having some importance, but there is nothing unfair than this that the life passes in fun.

The general deficiency of intelligence and understanding is the effect of alcohol and in the end it is the result of indiscipline in the habit. There is no doubt in it that films, radio, television are partner to the worrisome moment.

Generally music should be counted as something which has narcotic effect (which causes benumbing of sense), because, it's benumbing cannot be denied by any means. There are many types of benumbing and a person can numb his nerves in different ways.

Sometimes numbness comes by food. For example alcoholic drinks create great numbness in the nerves and render ineffective the power of thinking and senses. Sometimes something is inhaled through the nose that creates numbness; for example heroine, which is absorbed in the body through the nostrils, which for a certain period of time makes one intoxicated and many such patients who require anesthesia by such matter, is injected into their veins.

Sometimes this numbness comes through the ears by listening to music and concert. This effect sometimes is so strong that it takes out the person out of reality like a dazed one. And his attention is withdrawn from everything.

Keeping this point in mind, you will agree that music is nothing but numbness and it is the bearer of all or most of the vices and damages of intoxication.

Mainly people get so much pleasure and entertainment from music because of this numbing effect. Sometimes this effect is so powerful that, a person loses his senses and brain to the extent that he starts behaving in a strange manner.

For example when the benumbing effect of music becomes severe a person's power of making right decisions is curtailed. Then he cannot perceive correctly between good and bad, right and wrong, because most of the time he is under the effect of music and his mind, thoughts and strength of his senses, manners becomes prisoner of intoxication of the fierce tunes of the music. Hence he commits such uncultured actions, that in normal conditions doing such things he will think that it is against his status and contrary to human behavior.

We think that, this part of our conversations is not in need of any example or model, because every sensible person knows that, in those dinner parties where stranger males engaged in dances with unrelated stranger females, always they are consistent with loud keynotes of music, and the vibration of tunes of music puts curtain on the mind and understanding of the people in such a way that, for them doing every despicable act and all such acts which are below the dignity of humans, to perform them becomes so easy and simple for them.

What greater intoxication can be there other than this when the voice of music affects the mind of a person, a kind of indolence takes over his nerves? And that foolish person cannot think of anything from human imagination, except sex.

On his intelligence and on his power of comprehension a curtain is drawn in such a way that he forgets the sacred concepts of life like mercy, benevolence, kindness, chastity, modesty, trust, integrity, equality, brotherhood, greatness, eminence and magnificence, making efforts and hard work to fight for the attainment of the purpose and to be steadfast.

There is no second opinion that, right from day one, alcohol and music had been the greatest factors of encouraging sexual promiscuity for the lustful males and females and they on special occasions for intoxicating their nerves take help of these (i.e. alcohol and music).

It is correct that Islam never restrains man from his natural pleasures, but it prohibits those temporary and artificial entertainment created by intoxicating the nerves and arousing lustful desires and it takes away man from his natural condition.

Ethical limits of music

Is there is any doubt that among the factors of moral deterioration are these writings and the heart-rending tunes of music do not spread its wings for propagating of arguments contrary to chastity?

Do not the fascinating voice of women and girls along with musical tunes arouse lust; create fervor for lovemaking in the youths? And the heart, which is packed with lustful songs and amorous writings, does it have any for remembrance of Allah? Does that heart, which is drowned in the whirlpool of loving voices and vibrations of music, can think regarding the needy and the poor?

As a principle it should be seen that what are the ingredients and occasions of musical parties. And what are the demands of and different kinds of stimulations? In those gay dance and music parties is there anything else except sexual promiscuity, wine and tasty foods? And the thing, which causes these evil consequences, can be allowed by a heavenly law?

The conclusion is that musical tunes have pernicious effects with regard to numbing of the nerves. And from the ethical point of view also it arouses lustful desires in the human beings.

By way of protecting health also it is proved that, in our time, there are different factors and causes of increase in the number of unexpected and sudden deaths, one of which is the craze of music, because music creates excitement and excitement damages the balance of nervous system.

People who are day and night bombarded by songs and music are prone to heart failure and brain hemorrhage.

However much is not necessary to show that nerves very soon become unserviceable because of continuous excitement.
This was one side of the harms of music.

[Ali.k]

From the Book "Logic for Islamic Laws"

 

Question: Why has Islam prohibited music, and what is the philosophy in prohibiting it?

Answer: Music has become so common that most people are not ready to think about music in its proper perspective (about the bad evil effect of the music) and follow ferociously this wrong way of thinking according to which whatever is in common practice is seen to be without blemish.

They are not ready to study the evil and pernicious effects of music. To the extent that the people who are realistic are not content to this condition also, and in spite of those things being common they always endeavor to understand the reality and are engaged in research.

Music from many viewpoints is worth investigation.

(1) It causes harm to the physics of human body and leaves a bad effect on the nervous system. Keeping these factors in mind a Professor of Columbia University, Dr. Wolf Adler says:

The best and most fascinating tunes of music leaves the worst kind of effects on the nervous system of humans and especially when the climate is hot; then the unpleasant effects are too much.

The famous French expert Dr. Lycus Carl says: “It is possible that the fulfillment of beastly lust might be having some importance, but there is nothing unfair than this that the life passes in fun.

The general deficiency of intelligence and understanding is the effect of alcohol and in the end it is the result of indiscipline in the habit. There is no doubt in it that films, radio, television are partner to the worrisome moment.

Generally music should be counted as something which has narcotic effect (which causes benumbing of sense), because, it's benumbing cannot be denied by any means. There are many types of benumbing and a person can numb his nerves in different ways.

Sometimes numbness comes by food. For example alcoholic drinks create great numbness in the nerves and render ineffective the power of thinking and senses. Sometimes something is inhaled through the nose that creates numbness; for example heroine, which is absorbed in the body through the nostrils, which for a certain period of time makes one intoxicated and many such patients who require anesthesia by such matter, is injected into their veins.

Sometimes this numbness comes through the ears by listening to music and concert. This effect sometimes is so strong that it takes out the person out of reality like a dazed one. And his attention is withdrawn from everything.

Keeping this point in mind, you will agree that music is nothing but numbness and it is the bearer of all or most of the vices and damages of intoxication.

Mainly people get so much pleasure and entertainment from music because of this numbing effect. Sometimes this effect is so powerful that, a person loses his senses and brain to the extent that he starts behaving in a strange manner.

For example when the benumbing effect of music becomes severe a person's power of making right decisions is curtailed. Then he cannot perceive correctly between good and bad, right and wrong, because most of the time he is under the effect of music and his mind, thoughts and strength of his senses, manners becomes prisoner of intoxication of the fierce tunes of the music. Hence he commits such uncultured actions, that in normal conditions doing such things he will think that it is against his status and contrary to human behavior.

We think that, this part of our conversations is not in need of any example or model, because every sensible person knows that, in those dinner parties where stranger males engaged in dances with unrelated stranger females, always they are consistent with loud keynotes of music, and the vibration of tunes of music puts curtain on the mind and understanding of the people in such a way that, for them doing every despicable act and all such acts which are below the dignity of humans, to perform them becomes so easy and simple for them.

What greater intoxication can be there other than this when the voice of music affects the mind of a person, a kind of indolence takes over his nerves? And that foolish person cannot think of anything from human imagination, except sex.

On his intelligence and on his power of comprehension a curtain is drawn in such a way that he forgets the sacred concepts of life like mercy, benevolence, kindness, chastity, modesty, trust, integrity, equality, brotherhood, greatness, eminence and magnificence, making efforts and hard work to fight for the attainment of the purpose and to be steadfast.

There is no second opinion that, right from day one, alcohol and music had been the greatest factors of encouraging sexual promiscuity for the lustful males and females and they on special occasions for intoxicating their nerves take help of these (i.e. alcohol and music).

It is correct that Islam never restrains man from his natural pleasures, but it prohibits those temporary and artificial entertainment created by intoxicating the nerves and arousing lustful desires and it takes away man from his natural condition.

Ethical limits of music

Is there is any doubt that among the factors of moral deterioration are these writings and the heart-rending tunes of music do not spread its wings for propagating of arguments contrary to chastity?

Do not the fascinating voice of women and girls along with musical tunes arouse lust; create fervor for lovemaking in the youths? And the heart, which is packed with lustful songs and amorous writings, does it have any for remembrance of Allah? Does that heart, which is drowned in the whirlpool of loving voices and vibrations of music, can think regarding the needy and the poor?

As a principle it should be seen that what are the ingredients and occasions of musical parties. And what are the demands of and different kinds of stimulations? In those gay dance and music parties is there anything else except sexual promiscuity, wine and tasty foods? And the thing, which causes these evil consequences, can be allowed by a heavenly law?

The conclusion is that musical tunes have pernicious effects with regard to numbing of the nerves. And from the ethical point of view also it arouses lustful desires in the human beings.

By way of protecting health also it is proved that, in our time, there are different factors and causes of increase in the number of unexpected and sudden deaths, one of which is the craze of music, because music creates excitement and excitement damages the balance of nervous system.

People who are day and night bombarded by songs and music are prone to heart failure and brain hemorrhage.

However much is not necessary to show that nerves very soon become unserviceable because of continuous excitement.

This was one side of the harms of music.

 

I am sorry but those reasons are way to assumptious, c'mon man no offence but most of those reasons are made up out of thin air and frankly are utter bs

[notme]

^^ So they say, yet music therapy is allowed for nonverbal children with autism or other developmental delays. I wonder why.

Edited January 4, 2015 by notme

[Khalilallah]

I am sorry but those reasons are way to assumptious, c'mon man no offence but most of those reasons are made up out of thin air and frankly are utter bs

Thin air? can you bring a better logical argument which proves Music is good for you and thus halal?

[Sisters In Islam]

Salam

 

According to late Ayatullah Khomeini and Ayatullah Ali Khamenei (may peace and blessing of Allah be upon them), not all music is haram. Those music which can lead one away from the remembrance of Allah, or commiting sins are considered as haram. It depends on the mukallaf's view how the music will affect them. As for extra precaution, some people will just avoid all sorts of music altogether, and listen to something more worthy for their God-given ears.. 

 

Wallahu'alam

Edited January 4, 2015 by Sisters In Islam

[iCambrian]

Thin air? can you bring a better logical argument which proves Music is good for you and thus halal?

 

There are studies also concluding that music actual leads to an extension of life.  Music, much like a painting is art.  People can paint a beautiful field, and it will bring pleasure to the person viewing the painting, and they will be at peace and live with less stress.

 

Or a person can paint a picture of blood and gore and death, and it will harm the mentality of the viewer.

 

The same goes with music.

 

All music is, in the most literal sense, are sound waves.  Some music, is nothing more than sounds we hear in our day to day lives. Its art, its not necessarily harmful or helpful. It all depends on what sounds are made and what ideas are behind the sounds. 

 

If I made a song, and it consisted of a recording of my own voice saying "Hey!" and repeating. It is in the most literal sense, an equivelant to me listening to myself talk.  So to say that all music is haram doesnt really make any sense.  Because in the most literal sense, music are or is...sound waves. And if it is a sin or detrimental to hear sound waves, then you may as well purchase giant ear muffs to prevent yourself from hearing anything at all.

 

For the OP, the truth is, there is no logical reason to conclude that all music is haram.  Which is exactly why amongst scholars, there are a number who state that some form of music is permissable.

Edited January 5, 2015 by iCambrian

[iCambrian]

Also, for KhalilAllah, feel free to post the actual research from this Dr. Wolf Adler, rather than simply quoting a random statement.

 

Like this...

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24925171

 

Benefits of music training are widespread and lifelong: a bibliographic review of their non-musical effects.

 

 

"

Abstract

Recent publications indicate that musical training has effects on non-musical activities, some of which are lifelong. This study reviews recent publications collected from the Performing Arts Medicine Association bibliography. Music training, whether instrumental or vocal, produces beneficial and long-lasting changes in brain anatomy and function. Anatomic changes occur in brain areas devoted to hearing, speech, hand movements, and coordination between both sides of the brain. Functional benefits include improved sound processing and motor skills, especially in the upper extremities. Training benefits extend beyond music skills, resulting in higher IQs and school grades, greater specialized sensory and auditory memory/recall, better language memory and processing, heightened bilateral hand motor functioning, and improved integration and synchronization of sensory and motor functions. These changes last long after music training ends and can minimize or prevent age-related loss of brain cells and some mental functions. Early institution of music training and prolonged duration of training both appear to contribute to these positive changes."

 

Now, instead of just a random quote from some random doctor, we have an abstract of a peer reviewed publication, that reviews a number of other publications, which likely include several doctors and their actual research (as opposed to opinions).

Edited January 5, 2015 by iCambrian

[Anonymous456]

I guess for some, music influences or amplifies people's moods. Whether you're sad and need to listen to something, whether you're angry and it makes you feel angrier etc. Some also become dependent on music and find it very difficult to stop listening. In those respects, music probably has a negative effect on a person, it becomes a crutch or something addictive.
 

[:Sami II]

Let's ask the question of who are those that control the billion dollar music industry ?

Let's be logical here and let us examine the lives of these musicians, what do they believe in and how do they live. They are considered the "gods" of this world and are worshipped as such .

So do you want to worship them with the masses? 

Do you want to adapt their lifestyle ?

It's not just the words and instruments we are talking of here. it's the whole package.

Even if it was :Halal , will you accept it from someone who openly worships :Iblees and bring it to your home ?

Do you know what the actual music has inside it ,i.e.  the frequency modulations and harmonics , I have mentioned it many times before .

Any type od music that is ever recorded goes through a process where the frequencies are manipulated in order for an entity to attach itself to it.

When you play this music , this entity disrupts and manipulates our frequencies and thought patterns, for us :Shias as we are pure , it has a negative effect on us.

For others , it enhances them as they have already attached themselves to such entities from conception.

Edited January 5, 2015 by :Sami II

[iCambrian]

For the post above...

 

Many artists work as independents.  And dont really have any relation to any massive music industry ^.  Many artists and musicians are believers as well.  Not worshippers of satan, but worshippers of God.  They may be christian and im sure you can find many muslim musicians as well.

 

Music is made, generally in chords.  You match frequencies so the soundwaves do not clash with eachother, and when they synchronize, the sound is more clear for us to recognize with our ear buds.  I actually have owned multiple musical instruments in my life.  Ive taken multiple classes on music and music theory as well, and I have actually made my own music, and there is no um...satanic work at play.  Its just...ya know, you match the chords, think about things in life, maybe God, and you take normal words and match them to the chords, and you can make a song.

 

There is no brainwashing going on or...um...satan worshipping or...manipulation of frequencies to make u want to assisinate your neighbor or anything like that.

 

Icambrian secretly blows out the candles around his iblees altar in the attic*

Edited January 5, 2015 by iCambrian

[notme]

I asked before: if music is evil, why is music therapy allowed for non-verbal children as part of their education? I have asked both Ayt. Khamini and Ayt. Sistani with regard to my son who has autism and used to be non-verbal. I no longer have the official responses so you'll have to take or leave my word. Both said it is permitted. Why would an evil thing be permitted at all, but especially for an innocent child?

[:Sami II]

Like all industries , music is a tool , it is not evil just like the sword is not evil or good , it is a tool.

This tool is very powerful and it's in the hands of a few.

These few just like the health industry , the war industry , the food industry , and the media industry has an agenda.

All businesses have agendas , they have 5 years forecasts , 10 year and 20 year forecasts.

Some even have 100 year projections and forecast on their businesses.

The business of music is to make money.

The music business works with other businesses to cross sell their products or services.

I have spoken about these people that own these businesses.

I have told you all how they think and what their values are , and their thoughts on us "useless eaters ".

So please tell me why would any of these people ever think of doing somethings nice for us ?

And before you all think I'm against these elitess people , my answer to that , is that you the masses want it.

You the market loves the garbage , then the good .

you all want the junk food then the healthy fruit , or rather be lazy then work hard.

You prefer the easy credit then to work smart.

You all have created the market for it , and these business people have answered your demands.

This is the music industry , you have exactly what you want .

And whether we give 100000 reasons against it , seems like most of you have made up your minds , your reasons , and most of you will listen to it , enjoy it and live with it.

Just like that junk food , or that easy credit , or the 10 day crying programmes , its all business.

[Ali.k]

From the Book "Logic for Islamic Laws"

 

Question: Why has Islam prohibited music, and what is the philosophy in prohibiting it?

Answer: Music has become so common that most people are not ready to think about music in its proper perspective (about the bad evil effect of the music) and follow ferociously this wrong way of thinking according to which whatever is in common practice is seen to be without blemish.

They are not ready to study the evil and pernicious effects of music. To the extent that the people who are realistic are not content to this condition also, and in spite of those things being common they always endeavor to understand the reality and are engaged in research.

 

All of this is pure opinion and extremely assumptious and also lacks any logical reasoning behind justifying those statements.

 

 

 

 

(1) It causes harm to the physics of human body and leaves a bad effect on the nervous system. Keeping these factors in mind a Professor of Columbia University, Dr. Wolf Adler says:

The best and most fascinating tunes of music leaves the worst kind of effects on the nervous system of humans and especially when the climate is hot; then the unpleasant effects are too much.

 

There has infact been other scientific studies where scientists have claimed that in actual fact music is good for the nervous system and can also be used to control heart rate and blood pressure depending on the type of music. Doctors actually recommend listening to music to help prevent heart failure. Also there doesn't seem to be any support of this claim

 

 

 

The famous French expert Dr. Lycus Carl says: “It is possible that the fulfillment of beastly lust might be having some importance, but there is nothing unfair than this that the life passes in fun.

This doesn't even seem to be related to music, was the guy who said this talking about music ? If so, then the first part of his comment is nothing but pure assumption as he is implying that the only reason people listen to music is for lust even though theres no logical reasoning given for this view neither is there any evidence for this view. If this guy wasn't talking about music then that means you or the author of this book have added this comment which means you or the author think the only reason people to music is for lust, so what I said applies to you or the author.

 

 

 

The general deficiency of intelligence and understanding is the effect of alcohol and in the end it is the result of indiscipline in the habit. There is no doubt in it that films, radio, television are partner to the worrisome moment.

 

The first sentence quoted is correct, however we are talking about music not alcohol. As for the second sentence, that depends on the content of those things mentioned so it is wrong to make that statement without mentioning the content as it implies that 'all' films, radio, television are partner.

 

 

 

Generally music should be counted as something which has narcotic effect (which causes benumbing of sense), because, it's benumbing cannot be denied by any means. There are many types of benumbing and a person can numb his nerves in different ways.

Sometimes numbness comes by food. For example alcoholic drinks create great numbness in the nerves and render ineffective the power of thinking and senses. Sometimes something is inhaled through the nose that creates numbness; for example heroine, which is absorbed in the body through the nostrils, which for a certain period of time makes one intoxicated and many such patients who require anesthesia by such matter, is injected into their veins.

The first sentence is again assumptious and pure opinion and again without any logical explanation for that statement. However I agree that music can sometimes be slightly benumbing but not physically and neither does it take you out of your senses where you can't think like when drunk and also a very slight minor benumbing too. However there is a flaw in your/authors argument and logical presentation, which is, you/author has already considered all benumbing totally haraam without logically explaining why but also the way it's written makes it seems as if there is only 1 type of benumbing meaning that it's the same effects when drunk, taking drugs and listening to music which is totally not true. Now in regard to the second part of this quote I have to say, ARE YOU KIDDING ME !?!? Even though it isn't stated explicitly (in this quote but is in the next) , by talking about alcohol and taking lethal drugs such as heroin, the author is clearly trying to imply to the reader that music is just as bad and even has the same effect as those things (The next quote actually confirms this as you will see). This is totally false and can even be regarded as an outright lie. How can one even compare listening to music to those things ? Absolutely misleading !!

 

 

 

Sometimes this numbness comes through the ears by listening to music and concert.

By looking at this sentence and then looking at the sentences that came just before it (the previous sentences i quoted) you can clearly see that it is indeed true that you or the author has tried to say that sometimes music is the same as being drunk and taking drugs such as heroin, and that the same 'numbness' comes from it, all which is confirmed by the use of 'THIS' in the sentence. Now I am sorry but i don't care who wrote this, the fact of the matter is that this is an outright lie, yes, LIE !!!!! if you go say this to any sane person they'll look at you like you are crazy or intellectually deficient.

 

 

This effect sometimes is so strong that it takes out the person out of reality like a dazed one. And his attention is withdrawn from everything.

BS yet again. Again pure assumption and opinion without any logical reasoning. I'll give examples as how to this is actually a false statement. Nowadays music is played publicly in many places, even though the content of the songs is questionable to say the least. One such place where it's frequent for music to be played is restaurants, even Muslim owned restaurants. However you never see anyone in a restaurant being out of reality like they are 'dazed' like they're high on drugs and are completely unaware of whats going on as they are attentionless from 'everything', I mean come on seriously ? How does one even have the audacity to make a case for that ?? Infact you will NEVER see someone being 'dazed' in a restaurant 'because' of 'music' because if they were then this would be a frequent phenomenon. I use this same example for another place where music is played frequently, a shop in the mall or highstreet or wherever. Do you see people in the shop being dazed ? out of reality ? HELL NO !!! Now I am well aware you/author has said 'sometimes', but now how is this logical ? wheres the proof that music only works 'sometimes' ? how is it even scientifically explainable that music will daze you 'sometimes' ? I'm sorry but this 'sometimes' is a logically flawed concept as if music really did 'sometimes' daze you then how did you know it was music that was responsible in those certain times ? and what's the explanation for music not working the 'other times ??

 

 

 

Keeping this point in mind, you will agree that music is nothing but numbness and it is the bearer of all or most of the vices and damages of intoxication.

Mainly people get so much pleasure and entertainment from music because of this numbing effect. Sometimes this effect is so powerful that, a person loses his senses and brain to the extent that he starts behaving in a strange manner.

Regarding this statement: "keeping this point in mind, you will agree". Well I already exposed how pathetic 'this point' is, so by default whatever statement follows after that is completely invalid. You can see this by the claim "music is nothing bur numbness" that indeed the previous point made was totally false, flawed and illogical (As i have explained). Now another ridiculous claim that's made "and it is the bearer of all or most of the vices and damages of intoxication" Oh my days are you serious ? Does anyone really, truly, sincerely believe this statement ? How false is this, how misleading is this, how deceiving is this ? Again where's the logical reasoning for such a statement ? (I already debunked the arguments that were leading up to this point) where's the evidence for such a claim ?!?! but for arguments sake lets just say this is true, then how is it possible that such a bold statement like this isn't even mentioned by Allah ? if this were true about music then music is such an evil thing that Allah surely must have said something about this, how can he leave out something that is the bearer of 'all' or 'most' of the vices or damages of intoxication ? And before anyone tries quoting verses which somehow 'indirectly' leads to this claim let me just say that this is such a bold claim since it includes the words 'ALL' and 'MOST' that only Allah could have maid this claim and would also 'directly' mention it.

 

In relation the 2nd and 3rd sentences yet again we see this is nothing but assumptions and opinions backed by no logical reasoning or evidence whatsoever. Also I agree that a lot of music does indeed give pleasure and entertainment but not 'all' music gives that, something which you or the author don't mention which implies that 'all' music gives that. However this statement also brings another issue to light, which is your/authors ideology of Islam. You see just like you/author did so previously (about the numbness), you have already considered that pleasure and entertainment is haraam, something which is shown as you attribute pleasure and entertainment as a consequence of numbness (which was already previously considered haraam by you/author), which again you have given no logical reasoning or proof as to why receiving pleasure and entertainment is haraam and against islam. And no, idle and vain talk isn't necessarily pleasure and entertainment so don't even think about trying that one and even if it was, is all pleasure and entertainment idle and vain talk ? What, are we supposed to be miserable and have no joy in our life ? is that what Allah wants ? If no, then why use this 'pleasure and entertainment' argument ? The 3rd sentence as I already mentioned is opinion and assumption backed by no logical reasoning or proof. In truth a pathetic statement.

 

 

 

For example when the benumbing effect of music becomes severe a person's power of making right decisions is curtailed. Then he cannot perceive correctly between good and bad, right and wrong, because most of the time he is under the effect of music and his mind, thoughts and strength of his senses, manners becomes prisoner of intoxication of the fierce tunes of the music. Hence he commits such uncultured actions, that in normal conditions doing such things he will think that it is against his status and contrary to human behavior.

All of this quoted is again pure assumption and opinion backed up by no logical reasoning or evidence. And no all of things said thus far before this quote does not count as i have explained why and exposed it as invalid.

 

 

We think that, this part of our conversations is not in need of any example or model, because every sensible person knows that, in those dinner parties where stranger males engaged in dances with unrelated stranger females, always they are consistent with loud keynotes of music, and the vibration of tunes of music puts curtain on the mind and understanding of the people in such a way that, for them doing every despicable act and all such acts which are below the dignity of humans, to perform them becomes so easy and simple for them.

And yet again we have nothing but pure assumption and opinion backed up by no logical reasoning or evidence. Now this example about what happens in these parties is an extremely poor proof or whatever you want to call it, about music being bad and what causes people do the things mentioned. It says "in those dinner parties where stranger males engaged in dances with unrelated stranger females, 'ALWAYS THEY ARE CONSISTENT WITH LOUD KEYNOTES OF MUSIC'". Now I find this utterly deceitful and dishonest and also a case of simply picking and choosing in order to fulfill a certain motive you or the author have. The reason I say this is because you or the author have left out the fact that there is also 'ALWAYS' alcohol and many times drugs present in those parties and the people are influenced by those things. Another thing that is also so conveniently left out is the fact that there is also people who go to these parties (both male and female) with the motive and intention to do these type of things beforehand. things such as, to have sex or sexual related activity's and to do crazy silly things. Now as I already said the fact that you or the author has left out these other things I mentioned but not music, is extremely deceitful and dishonest, as it tries to imply that it's just the music and solely the music that leads to those things, which we know is utter nonsense and not true. But I need to ask a question here, why have you or the author done this ? why have you left out the other factors which are in play but not the music in order to try to 'blame' the music for it ? Was this done on purpose to fulfill the motive you have or do you not regard alcohol, drugs and pre-existing motives for those actions ? and if so then please explain ?

 

The second part of this example says "AND THE VIBRATION OF TUNES OF MUSIC PUTS CURTAIN ON THE MIND AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE PEOPLE IN SUCH A WAY THAT, FOR THEM DOING EVERY DESPICABLE ACT AND ALL SUCH ACTS WHICH ARE BELOW THE DIGNITY OF HUMANS, TO PERFORM THEM BECOMES SO EASY AND SIMPLE FOR THEM". Really ? Any reasonable person would believe this statement if it was regarding alcohol and drugs, not music. Lets be clear here, 'DOING EVERY DESPICABLE ACT AND ALL SUCH ACTS WHICH ARE BELOW THE DIGNITY OF HUMANS, TO PERFORM THEM BECOMES SO EASY AND SIMPLE FOR THEM', that happens when your drunk from alcohol or high on drugs, not when you listen to music. Who believes this [Edited Out] ? when you see people on the bus or the train with earphones/headphones in, listening to music, are they doing anything 'BELOW THE DIGNITY OF HUMANS' ? or are they peacefully sitting there minding their own business ? now compare that to someone on the street drunk or high on drugs and then tell me the difference. See I have yet again proved another statement that is illogical and thus false.

 

 

 

What greater intoxication can be there other than this when the voice of music affects the mind of a person, a kind of indolence takes over his nerves? And that foolish person cannot think of anything from human imagination, except sex.

And yet again we have another assumption and opinion backed by logical explanation and no evidence. This is statement has already been proved false by my earlier explanations. It's pure assumption with no backing. 'THAT FOOLISH PERSON CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING FROM HUMAN IMAGINATION, EXCEPT SEX' This is another piece of utter BS. This is all dependent upon the 'content' of the music. Of course a song about sex or one which implies sex will make one thing about sex but 'ALL' songs are not about sex and there many songs with good content which does not go against islam. If a song about the prophet or Allah or mothers E.C.T makes you think about 'sex' then you have a serious problem. So please get real and use logic and intellect.

 

 

 

On his intelligence and on his power of comprehension a curtain is drawn in such a way that he forgets the sacred concepts of life like mercy, benevolence, kindness, chastity, modesty, trust, integrity, equality, brotherhood, greatness, eminence and magnificence, making efforts and hard work to fight for the attainment of the purpose and to be steadfast.

And once again pure assumption and opinion backed by no logical reasoning or evidence. This is another false statement to broadly make about music, what if the music is about 'Mercy, Benevolence, Kindness, Chastity, Modesty, Trust, Integrity, Equality, Brotherhood, Greatness, Eminence and magnificence' ? Will he still forget those virtues listening to those songs ? NO, he will instead be reminded and encouraged to have those virtues.

 

 

 

There is no second opinion that, right from day one, alcohol and music had been the greatest factors of encouraging sexual promiscuity for the lustful males and females and they on special occasions for intoxicating their nerves take help of these (i.e. alcohol and music).

This is getting tiring now because, yes you guessed it, another assumption and opinion backed by no logical reasoning and evidence. In relation to music encouraging sexual promiscuity, this is again dependent upon the content of the song. As already mentioned music about Allah or the prophet or even some virtues, is not going to encourage sex, so this is is wrong statement to make as there is no mention about the content of music thus implying 'all' music will encourage promiscuity. Also it's funny how all of a sudden you/author now mentions alcohol and lustful males encouraging sexual promiscuity but completely left it out when talking about what happens in the parties.

 

 

 

It is correct that Islam never restrains man from his natural pleasures, but it prohibits those temporary and artificial entertainment created by intoxicating the nerves and arousing lustful desires and it takes away man from his natural condition.

Now this statement is actually, for the most part true. But again it's being used to make a false implication here as this statement is being used to imply music 'intoxicates the nerves and arouses lustful desires and it takes away man from his natural condition'. I don't need to explain why because I have already explained how 'music' doesn't intoxicate or take man away from his natural condition and how it's incorrect to assume that music arouses lustful desires.

 

 

 

Ethical limits of music

Is there is any doubt that among the factors of moral deterioration are these writings and the heart-rending tunes of music do not spread its wings for propagating of arguments contrary to chastity?

Again too assumptious without logical reasoning. I have already numerous amount of times stated that it's about the content and the statement says 'music' implying that 'all' music propagates arguments against chastity. So this statement is false.

 

 

 

Do not the fascinating voice of women and girls along with musical tunes arouse lust; create fervor for lovemaking in the youths?

Ok this statement in some instances can be true. However first a big factor in whether 'voice of women and girls along with the musical tunes arouse lust; create fervor for lovemaking in the youths' is, as already mentioned countless amount of times, the content. If content encourages lustful thoughts then yes the statement is true BUT what if the content doesn't promote lust and sex, but instead it's good things like God, religion, ect ? Then the chances are a womens voice won't arouse lust HOWEVER it is still possible that despite this a womens voice can arouse lust and this is a problem that can easily be solved. If this problem happens to an individual then listening to that 'PARTICULAR' song becomes haraam 'ONLY' to that 'IINDIVIDUAL'. Problem solved.

 

 

 

And the heart, which is packed with lustful songs and amorous writings, does it have any for remembrance of Allah?.

This Statement is true in some cases however it can't be used against music as a whole, and this can be seen through analysing the words used in this statement, which also shows the contradiction of some of the previous statements. All of a sudden now this statement 'specifies' 'LUSTFUL' songs. Funny enough the previous statements didn't specify any type of music and mentioned music as a whole thus giving the impression that 'all' music promotes lust. The reason I say this statement is true in some cases is because while someone would be listening to a 'lustful' song it is very likely lustful thoughts will be in his head instead of remembrance of Allah 'AT THE TIME OF LISTENING TO THAT SONG'. But regarding an individual who does listen to lustful songs regularly, it can't be 'assumed'  that he doesn't remember Allah in his daily activities as there those individuals (And I know some) who do listen to those songs but are also good people with good manners and commit some good deeds. With that said it is ALSO feasible that people who do listen to those songs regularly can be led on a downward spiral and commit more sins and lose remembrance of Allah.

 

 

 Does that heart, which is drowned in the whirlpool of loving voices and vibrations of music, can think regarding the needy and the poor?

Ok now we're back to assumptions and opinions without logical reasoning and evidence. This statement is utterly false. The same explanation I used for the previous quote can be applied here. Also an example im going to give to disprove this statement is that of a artist(Rapper in this case) called IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE. Now forget about the people who just listen to music, this is a guy who makes music. He is someone that has taken part in many projects involving the poor and needy and one such project really stands out. He built an orphanage in Afghanistan with his OWN money from his own free will. Normally people take part in fundraisers to do this despite having more than enough money themselves (I'm not dismissing those peoples efforts btw), Immortal Technique however funded the entire thing from his own pockets and he's not even a mainstream artist, he's an independent artist. Now as I mentioned this is someone who makes music, let alone just listens to it and besides there are many others like him who donate to the poor. And if this statement were true then there wouldn't be nothing like children in need which raises millions every year for from everyday people in the west for the poor.

 

 

 

As a principle it should be seen that what are the ingredients and occasions of musical parties. And what are the demands of and different kinds of stimulations?

??????? How is this relevant ? and this is also a poorly worded question. However again the first sentence of this quote is again implying that music is haraam but doesn't explain why but instead tries to do this by asking what happens in musical parties ultimately trying to say the reason for sexual promiscuity and being drunk and doing drugs (as so often happens in these parties) is a result of the music. I have already addressed the issue of what happens in these parties and why it's wrong to asseume it's musics fault so don't need to explain.

 

 In those gay dance and music parties is there anything else except sexual promiscuity, wine and tasty foods? And the thing, which causes these evil consequences, can be allowed by a heavenly law?

Again this statement uses the same dishonest technique as the last statement before it by trying very cunningly to imply to the reader it's musics fault for all the activities taking place in these parties. Now this statement is actually more outrageous than the previous one, actually shockingly more outrageous than the previous statement. I will analyse this statement a little differently by first going through the last part of this statement first.

 

So this statement starts off by identifying certain events and then lists the characteristics of these events, It then goes on to say "And the THING, WHICH CAUSES THESE EVIL CONSEQUENCES, can be allowed by heavenly law ?" Now it is clear to anyone with a quarter of a brain that the 2nd part of this statement is trying to say that there is something which causes the characteristics, which were mentioned in the earlier part of the statement, to take place. This is shown when it says  "and the 'THING', WHICH 'CAUSES' 'THESE' evil 'CONSEQUENCES'". We know for sure it is talking about the characteristics mentioned just before as it uses the word 'THESE'. It can also be clearly seen that the statement is trying to say that those characteristics are bad when it says "And the thing, which causes these 'EVIL' consequences". Now we must ask the question of what is the 'THING' that causes those 'EVIL' characteristics ? Well this is quite easy as this statement was under section that says 'ETHICAL LIMITS OF 'MUSIC'. So it's clear the statement is trying to tell us that the 'THING' which creates 'EVIL' consequences is music, and for further proof we can confirm the statement is implying music by looking at the 2 events it identified in the start, which were 'Gay DANCE' and 'MUSIC' parties. Now both these events have a common denominator which is music as 'DANCE' requires music and obviously 'MUSIC' parties require music. So now we know for sure that this statement is implying that music causes evil consequences. well what are the consequences ? The statement says they are "SEXUAL PROMISCUITY, WINE AND TASTY FOODS". Now these accusations are wrong making the statement false. I have already explained how music doesn't and isn't always the factor that causes sexual promiscuity but this statement still doesn't make that distinction leading you to believe 'all' music is the reason for it. As for 'WINE' ? How does music cause you drink wine, lets face it many muslims listen to tons of music and they don't suddenly drink wine and even if they do, then where's the proof that it's music which is what causes people to drink wine ? where's the evidence of this ? And as for 'TASTY FOODS' ? What in Gods name is this all about ? Somehow having tasty food is an evil consequence ? that can't be allowed by heavenly law ? What type of religion is Islam if that's the case, it's a fact that all us 'musliims' eat food we find 'tasty' so I really don't know about this claim. And even in the crazy world where tasty food was evil, then how the bloody hell does music make us eat tasty food ? unless the song was about tasty food (which will never be payed in parties) how does that work ? But the worst and most outrageous thing about this statement is it when it says 'GAY DANCE'. This statement is subconsciously trying to tell you that music is responsible for homosexuality ? I mean seriously WHAT THE F*** !!!!!!! HOW ?????? This is an outrageous connection and has never, NEVER been heard of before. Before anyone tells me that "what if the music was about homosexuality" let me remind you this statement has made no attempt what so ever the specify a certain type of music which again implies 'all' music does this.

[diyaa110]

Both the content and music matter.

 

For music that is common and popular among masses there is no doubt that it relates and associates with first and foremost: Lust - as most lyrics and songs are all about guy and girl, romance and physical intimacy. One should wonder why this is ? There happens to be some mysterious element in music which naturally makes it a good candidate for promoting ecstasy and sensuality. Even when the content is not lustful, 'melodious' music in itself can create feelings of lust and/or similar feelings.

 

The Prophet (pbuh) has said: "Music is the magic of fornication"

- there is reason behind it and the proof is mainstream music and ninety percent of all music somehow having ties with nudity, addiction, dance and sensuality. And it is specifically this type of music which is considered haraam. 

 

A melodious musical tone without any additional content can incite sensuality (but this effect is different for different people so mujtahideen like Ayetollah Khamenai have left it upon the listener to decide responsibly for himself)

Edited January 5, 2015 by diyaa110

[strength=Abbas]

It s just an experience...I used to listen to songs a loooooot..u CANT imagine.after a while I found out that I cant concerntrate..I just wanted to repeat the songs..even while I was writing.or at class..ob exams.....I couldnt concerntrate..It really hurt me..So I just try to not listen anymore and AlhamduliAllah I could and never listen again..AlhamduliAllah again I can concentrate..

[eThErEaL]

Ok this issue has been bugging me for a long time now. I personally believe that music/songs are halal or haraam ONLY according to the content, NOT the instruments or genre of the music/song.

Now there are still tons of muslims who blindy follow and say music is haraam no matter what or that instruments are haraam full stop. The reason I say they are people who 'blindly' follow is because everytime you ask them questions on this issue or to explain their view all they can do is quote what so and so said but fail to explain their stance through logic.

So now I am asking anyone who holds this view about music being haraam a question: GIVE ME A 'LOGICAL' EXPLANATION AS TO WHY MUSIC IS HARAAM ? (NOTE I DIDN'T ASK 'WHO SAID' MUSIC IS HARAAM OR 'WHERE' DOES IT SAY MUSIC IS HARAAM, I ASKED FOR LOGICAL REASONING)

For those of you who don't know the logical reason behind it but still choose to believe its haraam then I am sorry to say that you are blind following.

(Bismillah)

(Salam)

This topic has to do with the philosophy behind art (of which music is a kind of) and it's purpose for human beings. Traditionally art (whether we have in mind paintings, calligraphy, architecture or music) was created by one who was divinely inspired, and it served as a support for people to love and contemplate God (it helped with His remembrance). The art produced is just as important as the one who produces it. The person who produces the art is literally transferring to others his state by means of his art work. Now because of the natural tendency for things to become corrupt over time, and because of the continuous fall of man, art, along with its purpose and function, has become inverted into something evil and harmful. This is why many people no a days do not know the true significance of art! So now a distinction has to be made between sacred art and profane art. Profane art is the inverted kind of art which serves no higher and transcendent purpose and is produced by people who have no divine inspiration.

A lot of what passes as "music" nowadays is extremely harmful to our soul. And electronic music is the most harmful because it invovles a non-human element. Unfortunately many people think that if they "feel good" when hearing a song or a music then it means it is good for their soul. But actually it could be extremely harmful to you because of the one who produced it and reason why it was produced. The intention of the artist infuses the art work and effects your soul. This is why Muslims are encouraged to listen to Quran because there is nothing better and more healing to the soul than hearing the Divine speech of God.

Wallahu Alim

Ethereal

Edited January 5, 2015 by eThErEaL

[Ali.k]

 

The conclusion is that musical tunes have pernicious effects with regard to numbing of the nerves. And from the ethical point of view also it arouses lustful desires in the human beings.

I have refuted both of these claims a number of times as well as also explaining why they are wrong so I don't need to explain this. And this statement should say btw the truth is that the conclusion is we cannot logically prove music is bad as all our claims were weak, poor and misguided.

 

 

 

.

By way of protecting health also it is proved that, in our time, there are different factors and causes of increase in the number of unexpected and sudden deaths, one of which is the craze of music, because music creates excitement and excitement damages the balance of nervous system.

People who are day and night bombarded by songs and music are prone to heart failure and brain hemorrhage.

You have got to be kidding me, even when most open minded, non bias people reading this thought that this couldn't get any worse, we have this statement that is trying to tell us music is somehow causing an increase in death rate ? This is the first time in my life that I have heard such an audacious thing. There is no such thing at all of music causing "UNEXPECTED and SUDDEN DEATH". The fact anyone chooses to even believe such a think tells me a lot about their intelligence or how much of sheeps they are. But for arguments sake lets say it's true, that people did suddenly die because of excitement, does 'ALL' types music cause excitement ? actually there are many songs that make people just happy and many that make people sad and cry. But you know what, let's go one step further in order to make the ignorant people happy. Let's say that actually 'ALL' music made people excited, ok fine, if excitement causes sudden and unexpected death and 'ALL' music causes excitement, then most of the world should drop dead right now shouldn't they ? but let's give you ignorants the benefit of the doubt and say it's only rare or that it can happen at certain levels of excitement. Well then atleast be consistent with what you say and also come out and say sex is haraam, even with your spouse, since sex creates excitement and actually people have died because of sexual over excitement. Oh and while your at it also say that watching and supporting football teams is haraam too since when a team you support scores or is about too or when they play in a big match your excited and thus can 'SUDDENLY DIE' !!!! Infact why not make anything everything that causes excitement haraam, like holidays. Hope you see how ridiculous this stupid statements sounds now. And as for "PEOPLE WHO ARE DAY AND NIGHT BOMBARDED BY SONGS AND MUSIC ARE PRONE TO HEART FAILURE AND BRAIN HEMORRHAGE". Well, again where's the proof of this ? actually this is another lie because doctors recommend listening to music to help prevent heart failure.

 

 

.

However much is not necessary to show that nerves very soon become unserviceable because of continuous excitement.

What even causes 'continuous' excitement ? what is defined as 'continuous' excitement ? And also does music alone even cause this much amount of 'continuous' excitement ?

 

 

 

This was one side of the harms of music.

Correction: This was no side of the harms of music, this was all complete and utter BS. you ask whats more logical then this ? I ask whats 'NOT' more logical than this. I'm sorry but this was filed with lies, misconceptions, dishonest tactics.

 

I am disgusted at those arguments.

[Khalilallah]

from a personal experience:

 

When I listen to music it affects me a lot, if I listen to sad music it makes me depressed and when I listen to ambitious songs I day dream, when I listen to happy songs I feel too happy.

 

When I hear songs which are sung by women it reminds me of women ( I am not married ) and when I hear western songs sung by men or women it is always linked to love and sex or parties or some kind of immorality. 

 

So I avoid all kinds of musical sounds because they take my mind away from rationality and my thoughts become not proportional and if it is western music it causes lustful thoughts to appear in my mind.

 

So this is my personal reason, I am sure all men and women feel the same to a certain extent. I can say that the affects are not healthy for me and I can only see its harm, so I have made it haram for myself.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Khalilallah

[Ali.k]

from a personal experience:

 

When I listen to music it affects me a lot, if I listen to sad music it makes me depressed and when I listen to ambitious songs I day dream, when I listen to happy songs I feel too happy.

 

When I hear songs which are sung by women it reminds me of women ( I am not married ) and when I hear western songs sung by men or women it is always linked to love and sex or parties or some kind of immorality. 

 

So I avoid all kinds of musical sounds because they take my mind away from rationality and my thoughts become not proportional and if it is western music it causes lustful thoughts to appear in my mind.

 

So this is my personal reason, I am sure all men and women feel the same to a certain extent. I can say that the affects are not healthy for me and I can only see its harm, so I have made it haram for myself.

You see there's a reason why music is making you feel that way. The reason is this 'western' music you listen to is most probably mainstream music. Now mainstream music is part of the shaytaans work. 'MAINSTREAM' music most of the time is haraam because they always promote unethical things. However mainstream music isn't the only music available, there are many underground artists who have great messages, who provide an insight into politcs and it's lies and some even teach about history and so on. The problem is that the muslims who regard it as haraam always look at the maintstream music only, which is wrong. The best way to explain this to think of music as a tool. Now a tool can be used for good and bad, it depends on the user. Just because music is used for bad purposes it doesn't mean it can't be used for good purposes also. The same way a car can be used to get from A to B, ok nothing wrong there, but a car can also be used to run people over and kill them. Now if someone did this, then does it mean everyone should be banned from using a car ? would that be fair ? Another example is a gun. A gun can be used to rob a bank or kill people unjustly but it can also be used to protect people or for hunting. Is it the gun that wants to kill ? or is it the user of the gun ? So in the same way it's all about the content of the music.

 

As to your first point of music making you feel a certain way and changing your moods, all im asking is, SO ? So what if it does those things ? why is that haram ? why is that against islam ? what's wrong in feeling "too happy" as you put it ? I again ask, does Allah wish for us muslims to lead miserable lives ? Is this Islam ? Also this a common contradiction from many many muslims, Why is it wrong when 'music' makes you feel sad but not when nawhas or marshiyas do the exact same thing ? Why is wrong when 'music' makes you feel happy but not when nasheeds and qassida's do the exact same thing ?

[Alizulfiqar]

It s just an experience...I used to listen to songs a loooooot..u CANT imagine.after a while I found out that I cant concerntrate..I just wanted to repeat the songs..even while I was writing.or at class..ob exams.....I couldnt concerntrate..It really hurt me..So I just try to not listen anymore and AlhamduliAllah I could and never listen again..AlhamduliAllah again I can concentrate..

Too much of anything is bad my friend.....drink too much water in a day it will cause bad effects on your body....you cant blame music for that

[Nader Zaveri]

(salam)
(bismillah)

 

In Islam, not every ruling needs a reason or an explanation. The very essence of being a Muslim is submitting to the will of Allah and His Prophet (pbuh). We should only say "We Hear and We Obey". Allah does not need to "explain Himself" to us, we are his servants. 

 

After we have obeyed his commandments, then maybe we can find the logic/reason that has been given by the Prophet or A'immah regarding a particular ruling. If that is not explicitly written in our hadith books, then even coming up with our own logic/reasonings behind rulings, with our fallible logic, is dangerous. Deducing the `illa (reasons) behind rulings will inevitably lead to faulty logic which will in turn lead to Qiyas.

 

Our classical scholars were against such a thing, that is why al-Saduq authored a book called `ilal al-Sharaa'i` and in that book he gave Ahaadeeth attributed to the A'immah that gave the reasons for particular rulings and beliefs in Islam. Even  The al-Hilliyyeen (i.e. Muhaqqiq al-Hilli and `Allamah al-Hilli) were against contriving your own `illa (See: Muhaqqiq, Ma`aarij al-Usool & al-Hilli, Mabaadi` al-Wusool). 

 

(salam)

[Khalilallah]

You see there's a reason why music is making you feel that way. The reason is this 'western' music you listen to is most probably mainstream music. Now mainstream music is part of the shaytaans work. 'MAINSTREAM' music most of the time is haraam because they always promote unethical things. However mainstream music isn't the only music available, there are many underground artists who have great messages, who provide an insight into politcs and it's lies and some even teach about history and so on. The problem is that the muslims who regard it as haraam always look at the maintstream music only, which is wrong. The best way to explain this to think of music as a tool. Now a tool can be used for good and bad, it depends on the user. Just because music is used for bad purposes it doesn't mean it can't be used for good purposes also. The same way a car can be used to get from A to B, ok nothing wrong there, but a car can also be used to run people over and kill them. Now if someone did this, then does it mean everyone should be banned from using a car ? would that be fair ? Another example is a gun. A gun can be used to rob a bank or kill people unjustly but it can also be used to protect people or for hunting. Is it the gun that wants to kill ? or is it the user of the gun ? So in the same way it's all about the content of the music.

 

As to your first point of music making you feel a certain way and changing your moods, all im asking is, SO ? So what if it does those things ? why is that haram ? why is that against islam ? what's wrong in feeling "too happy" as you put it ? I again ask, does Allah wish for us muslims to lead miserable lives ? Is this Islam ? Also this a common contradiction from many many muslims, Why is it wrong when 'music' makes you feel sad but not when nawhas or marshiyas do the exact same thing ? Why is wrong when 'music' makes you feel happy but not when nasheeds and qassida's do the exact same thing ?

There are exceptions to types of music, some music is halal some haram according to Fiqh. I never said all music is Haram, but I am saying why Haram music is Haram.

 

When I say too happy its not that being too happy is a bad thing, being happy is good but I need a reason to be happy, music gives me happiness which is not real happiness, it merely gives me an escape from my troubles, rather than feeling realistic feelings and thinking of my problems, I would be spending my days being "happy" and without a clue about how to solve my problems. Also music might make me feel happy for a time but when I stop listening to music I will automatically feel an opposite emotion, it then becomes harder for me to be happy without music.

 

Being sad during Muharram or when it is not Muharram because of the tragedy of Karbala, hearing its stories makes us sad but this sadness at least has a reason and it is proportional so it is not misguiding, the sadness from a song which has no purpose that only says "OH OH OH you break my heart, I am so sad, I am so crazy about you, and I am bla bla bla OH OH OH" what is the point in listening to such rubbish? not only is it time consuming, it is also ruining your mood and you could be doing something useful during this time.

 

Also Allah wishes for us to be happy, that is the whole point of Sharia law, it is to organize human interactions and provide a system within which people can live happily. Everything that is Haram is because it is harmful for us and everything that is halal is not harmful, so God wants us to be happy and our obedience to God is necessary for happiness. For example: what difference does it make to God if you listen to Ghina (haram music) or if you eat pork or drink alcohol? It does not make a difference to God but it makes a difference to us.

 

1400 years ago most people didn't know why alcohol is harmful, they didn't know why it has been made haram. Now 1400 years later it is clear as day light that Alcohol is bad but it has some benefits which are outweighed by its harms. So over all Alcohol is not allowed for consumption unless it is for medical reasons and same goes for Music.

 

As sister notme said the Marja say its ok to treat someone with music because of an illness. So music is conditionally haram because of its harms and I mean haram music which is Ghina not halal music. 

 

Now, 1400 years ago people didn't know about the harms of Alcohol, does that mean Alcohol was not harmful or people were unaware/uneducated about Alcohol's harm? The same goes for music, just because we humans are not able to see the harms of Ghina, does not make Ghina good and permissible, so if God has made it Haram, without a doubt it is more harmful than good for us. Yet we know not.

 

In conclusion, Ghina is Haram because it is harmful and if we do not know its harms does not mean it has no harm. The harm is there but we don't know of it. Unless Music is needed for medical purposes then it is allowed because in this situations it is good for the ill person but for the healthy person there is no need for him to listen to Ghina.

 

wasalam

Edited January 5, 2015 by Khalilallah

[Ali.k]

I don't understand then because we are on the same page here as I said music is halaal/haraam depending on the content. Read my original post, I said im asking the people who say 'ALL' types of music is haraam and that it's haraam because of intstruments.  Those people say even if the content is good it's still haraam, I'm asking them to give me a logical explanation as to why instead of using the common shia get of jail free card when they say because ayatullah so and so said so when they don't know the answer and choose to follow them blindly.

 

 

There are exceptions to types of music, some music is halal some haram according to Fiqh. I never said all music is Haram, but I am saying why Haram music is Haram.

 

When I say too happy its not that being too happy is a bad thing, being happy is good but I need a reason to be happy, music gives me happiness which is not real happiness, it merely gives me an escape from my troubles, rather than feeling realistic feelings and thinking of my problems, I would be spending my days being "happy" and without a clue about how to solve my problems. Also music might make me feel happy for a time but when I stop listening to music I will automatically feel an opposite emotion, it then becomes harder for me to be happy without music.

 

Being sad during Muharram or when it is not Muharram because of the tragedy of Karbala, hearing its stories makes us sad but this sadness at least has a reason and it is proportional so it is not misguiding, the sadness from a song which has no purpose that only says "OH OH OH you break my heart, I am so sad, I am so crazy about you, and I am bla bla bla OH OH OH" what is the point in listening to such rubbish? not only is it time consuming, it is also ruining your mood and you could be doing something useful during this time.

I disagree with you over here. what do you class as 'real' happiness ? when there is music about some good things in the world and it makes you happy that isn't fake happy is it ? As to music giving you an 'escape' from your troubles, so do many other things such as comedy shows or movies, should they be haraam for this reason also ? theres many things that make us happy in tough situations but we still don't think they're wrong. And another thing, music

doesn't give you an escape but rather awakens your deeper inner thoughts you have in you. Now obviously when i say this keep in mind im talking about the halaal music and not haraam music. what im trying to say is that if halaal music makes you happy or even sad, remember thats not bad, as if the musics content is halaal in the first place then it isn't against islam, and if something that isn't against islam makes you happy or sad then it isn't bad it makes you feel that way.

 

To your point about why listen to these break up songs and things like that which causes sadness or happiness and it hasn't got any purpose. Well there's something called 'relevance', theres songs that are relevant to some people and not relevant to others but thats the beauty of music, it's 'personal' it can help people who are going through or experiencing what that songs about in their life and help them to move on, but 'only' if the songs halaal, meaning not against islamic teachings.

(salam)
(bismillah)

 

In Islam, not every ruling needs a reason or an explanation. The very essence of being a Muslim is submitting to the will of Allah and His Prophet  (pbuh). We should only say "We Hear and We Obey". Allah does not need to "explain Himself" to us, we are his servants. 

 

After we have obeyed his commandments, then maybe we can find the logic/reason that has been given by the Prophet or A'immah regarding a particular ruling. If that is not explicitly written in our hadith books, then even coming up with our own logic/reasonings behind rulings, with our fallible logic, is dangerous. Deducing the `illa (reasons) behind rulings will inevitably lead to faulty logic which will in turn lead to Qiyas.

 

Our classical scholars were against such a thing, that is why al-Saduq authored a book called `ilal al-Sharaa'i` and in that book he gave Ahaadeeth attributed to the A'immah that gave the reasons for particular rulings and beliefs in Islam. Even  The al-Hilliyyeen (i.e. Muhaqqiq al-Hilli and `Allamah al-Hilli) were against contriving your own `illa (See: Muhaqqiq, Ma`aarij al-Usool & al-Hilli, Mabaadi` al-Wusool). 

 

(salam)

OMG PLEASE PLEASE GO AND READ THE OP AGAIN. I have clearly stated my question yet because YOU don't really know the logical reasoning behind it you are doing the classical shia get of jail free card which is "oh I don't know the logic behind it but I still follow it because I blindly follow the marja so i'll just get away with it by saying GOD said it (WHICH IS NOT TRUE BTW) and the ayatullah's said it, yep, that should do the trick" 

 

 

(salam)
(bismillah)

 

In Islam, not every ruling needs a reason or an explanation. The very essence of being a Muslim is submitting to the will of Allah and His Prophet  (pbuh). We should only say "We Hear and We Obey". Allah does not need to "explain Himself" to us, we are his servants. 

 

And this is where the lie's begin. Allah infact hasn't said that music is haraam, the words music and singing don't even exist in the quran. It's the marja's that are saying this and then these marja's are telling the sheep that we're saying this because Allah said it.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Ali.k

[Khalilallah]

If your argument is against people who say all music is haram then Shias are not your target debaters. In Shia Fiqh music is relative and it is halal and haram depending on situation and the type of music, some music is halal. 

 

So I am sorry if I misread your topic but Shia Fiqh doesn't say music is an absolute haram.

[Ali.k]

If your argument is against people who say all music is haram then Shias are not your target debaters. In Shia Fiqh music is relative and it is halal and haram depending on situation and the type of music, some music is halal. 

 

So I am sorry if I misread your topic but Shia Fiqh doesn't say music is an absolute haram.

Sorry too say but this isn't entirely true bro. You see Shia fiqh in music is actually still quite illogical. There are some that say that it is all haram still. But most of the marja's that say there are halaal types of music are very very specific and these specifications are still incredibly limiting. These marja's say that the only halaal music there is, is classical music or music about Allah or the Ahlulbayt. They never go further than that, and to top it off they even say certain instruments are haraam.

 

Now I am saying that Music is halaal or haraam 'only' depending on the content. And, it doesn't have to be about God or the Ahlulbayt to be halaal and also that no certain instrument makes music haraam. So actually Shia's are my target debators too

[Dota~lover]

Ok this issue has been bugging me for a long time now. I personally believe that music/songs are halal or haraam ONLY according to the content, NOT the instruments or genre of the music/song. 

 

Now there are still tons of muslims who blindy follow and say music is haraam no matter what or that instruments are haraam full stop. The reason I say they are people who 'blindly' follow is because everytime you ask them questions on this issue or to explain their view all they can do is quote what so and so said but fail to explain their stance through logic.

 

So now I am asking anyone who holds this view about music being haraam a question: GIVE ME A 'LOGICAL' EXPLANATION AS TO WHY MUSIC IS HARAAM ? (NOTE I DIDN'T ASK 'WHO SAID' MUSIC IS HARAAM OR 'WHERE' DOES IT SAY MUSIC IS HARAAM, I ASKED FOR LOGICAL REASONING)

 

For those of you who don't know the logical reason behind it but still choose to believe its haraam then I am sorry to say that you are blind following.

Salam brother,I think still yet non of the brothers have explained to you the real issue even if few of them tried to do yet they failed to convey the exact meaning in clear words + many of brothers in this site and other forum sites like this one are themselves don't know the exact shia islam.   SORRY FOR MY POOR ENGLISH.

 

I hope you read my this post and will concentrate on it in order to be fully satisfied logically.

 

This kinds of questions also used to arise in my mind but after asking the authentic shia scholars I get the real picture of the truth.

 

As you might have probably heard that our deen is divided into 2 parts:

 

1:usool-al-deen(Fundamentals of religion)=In this area basic issues are discussed for example:Do God really exist?,if yes,how many Gods,why just only one God?why not more than one God?what are the attributes(which also include attributes of All-knowing,All-wise&infallibility) of God and what are the proofs behind those attributes?what's the reason of our creation?(Answer=To worship God),what's the relation of this Arabic man Muhammad(who like any other normal human beings is also a human being) to God?how can we logically demonstrate that this Arabic man is representative(i.e prophet) of God on earth for us other humans and that he is not some hypocrite who is deceiving other people by his fake prophecy for whatever reason(maybe fame/power etc).Many other issues like (judgement day,imamate etc etc) are also discussed in usool-al-deen.

 

 

2:furu-al-deen(Particular issues of religion) like 5 daily prayers,fasting,hajj and all other rituals and forms of worship&duas etc(which also includes abstaining from music).

 

 

If we logically(with proofs and evidence) came to know that there is a God and he is all-knowing,all-wise and infallible.Then logically it flows that whatever this God says it must also have some reason/logic behind it even if we don't know the logic behind his commandment because ours not knowing does not mean that there is no wisdom behind those commandment because we have already proved with evidence that he have infinite wisdom,infinite knowledge and he is infallible.Neither it is in anyway necessary for us to know the wisdom behind those commandments of God because reason behind our creation is to worship and obey God.

 

And you can observe easily that this habit is general habit of us human beings which we also apply in our daily lifes throughout our whole life from the day we are born till we die and also their is no logical problem with this habit.

For example:

1:If you are sick and you visit doctor for medicine.He will prescribe you some medicine(i.e tablet).Eventhough you have no idea  how would that tablet will work in your body yet you will take that medicine because that was prescribed from an authentic source(i.e doctor) but if you discussed your that sickness with some random guy on the road bench(a stranger) and he had prescribed you medicine.Would any sane person risk his health(or even life) by taking any random medicine prescribed by a random person who more probably is not even a doctor?

2:You probably generally buy burgers,pizzas and breads from bakery shops(for a moment,suppose they make healthy and delicious fast foods) yet still you might don't know what are the exact proportion of ingredients in those foods but still your lack of knowledge about ingredients does not mean that their food is not delicious.As it is something which you have always witnessed with your taste buds whenever you ate their burgers/pizzas etc.

 

 

Now both of these examples can make it easy for you that why we don't need to know logic behind God's law after knowing that 'there exists God+he is all-knowing,all-wise&infallible).

However,as we know that there is a gap of 1400 years between us and prophet Muhammad so we need to know whether something was really said by the prophet Muhammad himself or is it something which later generations related it to the prophet out of their enmity towards islam or for their personal benefits for example A king of some era did not like some commandments of religion and hence he added new stuffs in religion through his paid puppet scholars by saying that Prophet never commanded such thing or for some another reason.

Ayatullahs are experts in this field.They are expert in Quran and hadith brought to us by prophet Muhammad(i.e representative of God for us humans).However as we know that there is a gap of 1400 years between us and prophet so the task of these ayatullahs is to research whether something have really said by the prophet?or is it something which people have related it to the prophet for their own benefit,out of their ignorance or because of their enmity towards islam.They do it by the "science of probability".They study every single generation in between these 1400 years to know whether the message have been transferred successfully and which sources to be considered authentic and which of them to be considered lie against prophet.Just like non of us have ever seen Ghengis Khan yet we all believe that he existed because when we study history of every nation be it european,persian and also Mongolian history itself,we came to know that he was a conqueror,unjust,brutal,mongolian,who ruled the empire which became the most largest empire in the history etc etc.All this knowledge is gained by "science of probability".Many people might not have ever visited USA yet they believe in the existence of USA because the way information is reached to them through TV,internet,people on their surroundings(i.e their parents,friends,siblings) who also believe in USA.So a human mind conclude that there must exist a country named USA otherwise information about it's existence from so many different channels(i.e sources) would have not reached me."This is what I call "science of probability".

 

Many few of the commandment's logic have been shared with us in Quran and hadith besides those rare cases almost all other commandment's logic is not shared with us neither we require to know the logic but we can't say that there is no wisdom behind them as God's infalliblty,infinite wisdom&knowledge have been proved to us with evidence.Furthermore,it is not even important for us to know those wisdoms behind every commandment amongst these hundreds of thousands of rituals and different prayer methodologies because we are created to worship and obey God and we have to do that as we are his slave&possession.No one knows those wisdoms except God and those of his creatures whom God gives knowledge of.We can say the reason behind X or Y commandment might be this or might be that but we can't say with certainity.For example=God revealed through his prophet about prohibition of eating pork and now a days after too much scientific progress we know that pig have certain kind of germs which is harmful for us.Now we can say that maybe reason behind pork eating prohibition was because of this germs(though one can't say with certainity).

One might ask that we can kill those germs now a days with different scientific methods will it mean that pork won't be prohibited any more?Answer=Pork will still remain prohibited.(reason=Might be in future generations we might find even more disadvantages of pork which have not been discovered yet.Furthermore,we are not even 100% sure whether reason behind pork's prohibition was because of this germs?We only know that this germs have great harm.

Only God with his knowledge of everything(i.e infinite knowledge) knows which of the things and actions to be declared haram(sin),makruh(non-haram,but disliked),mubah(neutral),mustahab(non-wajib,though good)&wajib(obligatory) based on their less importance,great importance,less harm,great harm&whatever other reasons.

 

In short,no one(not even Grand ayatullahs) can tell you wisdom behind God's commandments.We only have to obey it.However if any non-muslim with his 100% sincere heart remain kafir because islam have not been proved true to him yet then this kind of infidelity is not sin.Infact,it is natural and healthy and he have full right to ask for evidence.Although,he should be sincere in his heart that he will accept islam after being logically satisfied with it and if somebody have enough evidence already then for him not even single second of infidelity will be allowed.

 

 

Furthermore,brother it is my advice that if you have any serious question regarding shia-islam then ask it from some knowledgeable shia authentic scholar.Asking like this on random internet forums can be very dangerous as these people are laymen who despite being shias many of them don't know their own religion correctly and many times they say things which shiasm don't claim.For example=Many people say here stuffs like "there is no evidence for God's existence or islam,these are all matter of hearts" which is plain stupidity,not only that they even go onestep further and quote Quran or hadith out of context to prove their point but non of authentic shia scholars will ever say that "islam cannot be proved,and it's only matter of heart".These are all sunni concepts.Many time they do fallacious reasoning for example if somebody ask what is the evidence that Quran&hadith is word of God or God exists?they will say stuffs like Quran&hadith is word of God because God said in the quran that it is my word or God exists because prophet Muhammad said God's exist and when it is asked how can you claim prophecy of Muhammad they will say because God has said that he is my prophet.

 

I remember few months back one atheist asked few questions regarding God's existence.He neither mocked religion nor anything like that but many Mr.Ayatullah of this website started being overprotective and providing fallacious arguements then demanding acceptance of islam from him.Apparently he was sincere(might be not) and most(if not all) of his questions was logical but Mr.Ayatullahs did their job well and probably scared that poor kid.There is a proverb in Urdu "Nim hakim dushman jan,Nim Mullah khatrei Iman" [Half doctor enemy of health&half mullah(cleric) enemy of faith].

 

In conclusion,there are many half mullahs on this website and there is a big chance that people receive more harm than good from these half mullahs.That's why I advice you to always consult expert of the field,the field regarding which you have question or problem. Wasalam   

 

 

                                                                   

 

 

                                                                         Sorry for poor English............

Edited January 6, 2015 by Dota~lover

[Nader Zaveri]

(salam)

(bismillah)

And this is where the lie's begin. Allah infact hasn't said that music is haraam, the words music and singing don't even exist in the quran. It's the marja's that are saying this and then these marja's are telling the sheep that we're saying this because Allah said it.

I would suggest you to pick up a Tafsir of the Qur'an and also read some hadith regarding this subject. There are ample verses and hadith that talk about music and singing.

 

(salam)

[notme]

Certainly some but probably not all music is haram according to hadith.  Honestly, I've always been confused regarding what is or is not allowed.  It's safer to err on the side of caution, and that is an easy solution for most people.  Some people need to carefully research the subject and reach their own conclusions.

 

In part because of his music therapy, my son now talks and communicates very well.  He is nearly indistinguishable from any other young teenager most of the time, therefore, certainly not all music is bad, and not all effects of music are bad for all people.  My son plays the piano/keyboard by ear.  I've never signed him up for formal lessons.  We do have an electronic keyboard in the house which was given to my son as a gift by one of his elementary school teachers, which he uses for self-expression and relaxation, in spite of the keeping of musical instruments being generally prohibited by our scholars.  In our case, it is very nearly necessary for him to be able to deal with his autism related behaviors, thoughts, and feelings.

 

There are millions of people in the world who rely on various prescriptions for medical issues.  Does that mean the general public should have access to every drug and therapy?  

 

I'd still suggest erring on the side of caution.

[NaveenHussain]

Salaam, 

Please watch the following video, if you want some logical reasonings as to why musical instruments are said to be haraam:

Edited January 6, 2015 by NaveenHussain

[iCambrian]

Some of the...defiance against music I think could very well be cultural as well. A more conservative society can interpret literature more conservatively. And political motives may come into play as well. If music and dancing and singing etc is significant in the west for example, figures may look for negativity in it and promote that negative image, without mentioning the good in it. And even further may use Islam to promote that. Or it could be a mix between conservative interpretations or life style as well as politics and culture etc.

People comment on some satanic industry, but the vast majority of music isn't industry related at all and music has predated all industries. Music has been in human society since the dawn of human intelligence long before any money was ever involved.

But also music without a doubt can be sensual. When people dance, particularly men and women, it's about feeling good which can have varying levels of sexuality, even if dancing is very formal like square dancing, this kind of dancing would still be seen as haram by more conservative Muslims. So whether or not it is seen as haram probably just comes down to that. How conservative people are with their interpretations and culture and lifestyle. With Islamic scholars being generally conservative, most are going to say it's haram.

[abduljabbar]

What you've got to understand is that the Marjas are not bringing their fatawa out of nothing. These laws are from the teachings of the Ahlul-Bayt a.s., and its their interpretations of them. In terms of the ahkam and laws of the Sharia, yes we will blindly follow the Ahlul-Bayt a.s. If you don't then you are not a follower in any sense.

[Ali.k]

(salam)

(bismillah)

I would suggest you to pick up a Tafsir of the Qur'an and also read some hadith regarding this subject. There are ample verses and hadith that talk about music and singing.

 

(salam)

No there aren't 'ample' of verses about music, infact there isn't even 1 verse directly about music. The truth is there are 3 verses that are loosely linked to music. Now I suggest you go and read these verses. These verses are extremely weak to build a case against music, actually even the scholars themselves regard those 3 verses as weak evidences and not strong enough to say music is haraam. So then they say they need to look at hadith. Now there is hadith that say music is bad and certain instruments are forbidden, but here's the thing, they marja's say that in order for a hadith to be considered authentic it has to meet 'all' 4 categories. 1 of those categories is that it must be logical. So now I also suggest you go and read those hadith and tell me if they are logical ? because they seem extremely unsatisfying and also there's no explanation to them. Further as we are talking about hadith, there are actually hadith that contradict hadith about music being forbidden as there's hadith like the prophet asking why isn't music being played in a wedding and things like that. Now both the hadith, for and against music are not considered 'strong' hadith.

Salaam, 

Please watch the following video, if you want some logical reasonings as to why musical instruments are said to be haraam:

I've already seen this video and all the point's brought up in this video I have already spoke about. Go and read my previous posts on this topic, namely the my 2nd post, which is the really big one.

[Ali.k]

I think the problem here is that people are just blindly following when it comes to this

Edited January 6, 2015 by Ali.k

[Ali.k]

 

Salam brother,I think still yet non of the brothers have explained to you the real issue even if few of them tried to do yet they failed to convey the exact meaning in clear words + many of brothers in this site and other forum sites like this one are themselves don't know the exact shia islam.   SORRY FOR MY POOR ENGLISH.

 

I hope you read my this post and will concentrate on it in order to be fully satisfied logically.

 

This kinds of questions also used to arise in my mind but after asking the authentic shia scholars I get the real picture of the truth.

 

As you might have probably heard that our deen is divided into 2 parts:

 

1:usool-al-deen(Fundamentals of religion)=In this area basic issues are discussed for example:Do God really exist?,if yes,how many Gods,why just only one God?why not more than one God?what are the attributes(which also include attributes of All-knowing,All-wise&infallibility) of God and what are the proofs behind those attributes?what's the reason of our creation?(Answer=To worship God),what's the relation of this Arabic man Muhammad(who like any other normal human beings is also a human being) to God?how can we logically demonstrate that this Arabic man is representative(i.e prophet) of God on earth for us other humans and that he is not some hypocrite who is deceiving other people by his fake prophecy for whatever reason(maybe fame/power etc).Many other issues like (judgement day,imamate etc etc) are also discussed in usool-al-deen.

 

 

2:furu-al-deen(Particular issues of religion) like 5 daily prayers,fasting,hajj and all other rituals and forms of worship&duas etc(which also includes abstaining from music).

 

 

If we logically(with proofs and evidence) came to know that there is a God and he is all-knowing,all-wise and infallible.Then logically it flows that whatever this God says it must also have some reason/logic behind it even if we don't know the logic behind his commandment because ours not knowing does not mean that there is no wisdom behind those commandment because we have already proved with evidence that he have infinite wisdom,infinite knowledge and he is infallible.Neither it is in anyway necessary for us to know the wisdom behind those commandments of God because reason behind our creation is to worship and obey God.

 

And you can observe easily that this habit is general habit of us human beings which we also apply in our daily lifes throughout our whole life from the day we are born till we die and also their is no logical problem with this habit.

For example:

1:If you are sick and you visit doctor for medicine.He will prescribe you some medicine(i.e tablet).Eventhough you have no idea  how would that tablet will work in your body yet you will take that medicine because that was prescribed from an authentic source(i.e doctor) but if you discussed your that sickness with some random guy on the road bench(a stranger) and he had prescribed you medicine.Would any sane person risk his health(or even life) by taking any random medicine prescribed by a random person who more probably is not even a doctor?

2:You probably generally buy burgers,pizzas and breads from bakery shops(for a moment,suppose they make healthy and delicious fast foods) yet still you might don't know what are the exact proportion of ingredients in those foods but still your lack of knowledge about ingredients does not mean that their food is not delicious.As it is something which you have always witnessed with your taste buds whenever you ate their burgers/pizzas etc.

 

 

Now both of these examples can make it easy for you that why we don't need to know logic behind God's law after knowing that 'there exists God+he is all-knowing,all-wise&infallible).

However,as we know that there is a gap of 1400 years between us and prophet Muhammad so we need to know whether something was really said by the prophet Muhammad himself or is it something which later generations related it to the prophet out of their enmity towards islam or for their personal benefits for example A king of some era did not like some commandments of religion and hence he added new stuffs in religion through his paid puppet scholars by saying that Prophet never commanded such thing or for some another reason.

Ayatullahs are experts in this field.They are expert in Quran and hadith brought to us by prophet Muhammad(i.e representative of God for us humans).However as we know that there is a gap of 1400 years between us and prophet so the task of these ayatullahs is to research whether something have really said by the prophet?or is it something which people have related it to the prophet for their own benefit,out of their ignorance or because of their enmity towards islam.They do it by the "science of probability".They study every single generation in between these 1400 years to know whether the message have been transferred successfully and which sources to be considered authentic and which of them to be considered lie against prophet.Just like non of us have ever seen Ghengis Khan yet we all believe that he existed because when we study history of every nation be it european,persian and also Mongolian history itself,we came to know that he was a conqueror,unjust,brutal,mongolian,who ruled the empire which became the most largest empire in the history etc etc.All this knowledge is gained by "science of probability".Many people might not have ever visited USA yet they believe in the existence of USA because the way information is reached to them through TV,internet,people on their surroundings(i.e their parents,friends,siblings) who also believe in USA.So a human mind conclude that there must exist a country named USA otherwise information about it's existence from so many different channels(i.e sources) would have not reached me."This is what I call "science of probability".

 

Many few of the commandment's logic have been shared with us in Quran and hadith besides those rare cases almost all other commandment's logic is not shared with us neither we require to know the logic but we can't say that there is no wisdom behind them as God's infalliblty,infinite wisdom&knowledge have been proved to us with evidence.Furthermore,it is not even important for us to know those wisdoms behind every commandment amongst these hundreds of thousands of rituals and different prayer methodologies because we are created to worship and obey God and we have to do that as we are his slave&possession.No one knows those wisdoms except God and those of his creatures whom God gives knowledge of.We can say the reason behind X or Y commandment might be this or might be that but we can't say with certainity.For example=God revealed through his prophet about prohibition of eating pork and now a days after too much scientific progress we know that pig have certain kind of germs which is harmful for us.Now we can say that maybe reason behind pork eating prohibition was because of this germs(though one can't say with certainity).

One might ask that we can kill those germs now a days with different scientific methods will it mean that pork won't be prohibited any more?Answer=Pork will still remain prohibited.(reason=Might be in future generations we might find even more disadvantages of pork which have not been discovered yet.Furthermore,we are not even 100% sure whether reason behind pork's prohibition was because of this germs?We only know that this germs have great harm.

Only God with his knowledge of everything(i.e infinite knowledge) knows which of the things and actions to be declared haram(sin),makruh(non-haram,but disliked),mubah(neutral),mustahab(non-wajib,though good)&wajib(obligatory) based on their less importance,great importance,less harm,great harm&whatever other reasons.

 

In short,no one(not even Grand ayatullahs) can tell you wisdom behind God's commandments.We only have to obey it.However if any non-muslim with his 100% sincere heart remain kafir because islam have not been proved true to him yet then this kind of infidelity is not sin.Infact,it is natural and healthy and he have full right to ask for evidence.Although,he should be sincere in his heart that he will accept islam after being logically satisfied with it and if somebody have enough evidence already then for him not even single second of infidelity will be allowed.

 

 

Furthermore,brother it is my advice that if you have any serious question regarding shia-islam then ask it from some knowledgeable shia authentic scholar.Asking like this on random internet forums can be very dangerous as these people are laymen who despite being shias many of them don't know their own religion correctly and many times they say things which shiasm don't claim.For example=Many people say here stuffs like "there is no evidence for God's existence or islam,these are all matter of hearts" which is plain stupidity,not only that they even go onestep further and quote Quran or hadith out of context to prove their point but non of authentic shia scholars will ever say that "islam cannot be proved,and it's only matter of heart".These are all sunni concepts.Many time they do fallacious reasoning for example if somebody ask what is the evidence that Quran&hadith is word of God or God exists?they will say stuffs like Quran&hadith is word of God because God said in the quran that it is my word or God exists because prophet Muhammad said God's exist and when it is asked how can you claim prophecy of Muhammad they will say because God has said that he is my prophet.

 

I remember few months back one atheist asked few questions regarding God's existence.He neither mocked religion nor anything like that but many Mr.Ayatullah of this website started being overprotective and providing fallacious arguements then demanding acceptance of islam from him.Apparently he was sincere(might be not) and most(if not all) of his questions was logical but Mr.Ayatullahs did their job well and probably scared that poor kid.There is a proverb in Urdu "Nim hakim dushman jan,Nim Mullah khatrei Iman" [Half doctor enemy of health&half mullah(cleric) enemy of faith].

 

In conclusion,there are many half mullahs on this website and there is a big chance that people receive more harm than good from these half mullahs.That's why I advice you to always consult expert of the field,the field regarding which you have question or problem. Wasalam   

 

 

                                                                   

 

 

                                                                         Sorry for poor English............

 

Im sorry bro but this is where there's a massive difference in islamic ideology between me and mainstream muslims. I don't believe God commands us to do things which there is no explanation for i.e things which the human mind can't comprehend. In quran all the things that we are commanded to do has a reason and is good for the soul. You said "Neither it is in anyway necessary to know the wisdom behind those commandments". This statement is something which I categorically disagree with. The reason being is because we have to be truly sincere in our actions in order for them to count, which is shown in the Quran  (7:29) Say: My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere

Now in order to be sincere, you must be sincere in your actions which can only be done if you 'sincerely' believe in the actions you do. Now from a logical perspective, we must ask how can one 'sincerely' believe in the actions he has to do ? The only way to be truly sincere over a particular action is by understanding the logical reasons behind this action. Now if we were to follow your statement then how can one be truly sincere in doing what Allah has told him to do if he doesn't even know the logical reasoning behind them ? He doesn't understand the reason why he's doing them which means he can never be sincere in doing it. Also when you do something you don't sincerely believe in then doing it is blind following, and blind following cannot be allowed by islam (something that, unfortunately, most Muslims do) and isn't that the mistake the idol worshipers made ? nowadays most muslims follow and do things because they were brought up doing them and they were always told to do them, so they now don't even know the reasons behind doing them but will still follow the same way the idol worshippers followed their fathers and this is also mentioned in the Quran where Allah spoke about them following the religion of their forefathers. To further my argument as to why this type of thinking is wrong is because in the Quran we are told to learn 

(96:1-5) “Read! In the name of your Rabb (Cherisher and Sustainer) Who created— created man, out of a leech-like clot: Read!  And your Rabb is Most Bountiful Who has taught (the use of)  pen.  He has taught man that which he knew not.”

(2:121) “Those to whom We have given the Book (the Qur’an) study it as it should be studied: they are the ones that believe therein: those who reject faith therein the loss is their own.”

So now how can you claim that it isn't necessary to know the reasons behind what we have been told to do ? Another thing which I truly don't understand is in the muslim world we always hear that "it is Wajib (mandatory) upon us to learn and gain knowledge about our religion" this statement is something that is echoed from top to bottom in our communities, yet there is still so much blind following and we see many many muslims hide behind taqleed (something which can be seen as when you ask someone about why we have to do something the general response will be because my ayatullah said so) to feel comfortable in not really making a sincere attempt to follow this statement. There is also another verse in support of my argument here and this is truly quite an interesting verse too as I will explain.

(8:22) Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb who do not use reason.

When Allah says 'the deaf and dumb who do not use reason' it's clear to see that it means those people who chose not to think or use 'reason'. This whole idea of following without knowing the logical reason why is the same thing as not using reason, as how can one still choose to do something he doesn't even understand why ? Now the reason why this verse is so interesting is because of the language used by Allah which shows us exactly how bad and wrong it is to not use our intellect. Notice how he doesn't say the worst of the muslims or the worst of the believers or the worst of the ahle kitab or the worst of the people/insaan ? He instead says the 'WORST' OF THE 'CREATURES'. Not using our logic or intellect is so displeasing to Allah that he says the one's who do this are the worst of the living creatures !!!! Just look at the magnitude of the words used by Allah in this verse, isn't this enough to make you think that we should 'always' use our minds, the greatest gift we have been given from Allah btw, I think everyone should take a moment to realise the severity and tone of this verse.

 

 

Now the thing that really grinds my gears is this great misconception that God himself has forbidden music which is totally not true, I mean the words music and songs don't even exist in the quran. When one looks at the verses which 'apparently' refers to music then one must surely question the scholars thinking and logic behind it because those verses are ridiculously attached to the forbidding of music. Everytime I ask about why music is haraam, whether it's people who believe it's haraam or knowledgeable people or even the maulana's, all I ever get is either ayatullah so and so said so, or I get hadith which in actual fact aren't even logical nor are they even strong hadith, or when I am told the 'apparent' reasons why music is haraam, logically flawed and filled with holes. I have already refuted and explained why these so called reasons are flawed several times so if you want to see my points as to why just look through this thread from the start.