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Mataam

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Salaam,

 

I've come from a background where mataam is pretty much essential. My family aren't extreme in doing it but encourage me too.

 

I personally don't consider it a sign of mourning and my opinion is that it gives islam a bad image. It's the 21st century and we have to adapt to it. Many non-muslims and non-shias come to our mosques. And most of the time they leave with more questions than answers.

 

It is up to us to answer them but in my opinion its something which isn't necessary in religion.

 

Anyways,

 

1.) Is there any Sahih hadith which mentions the Imaams/Prophets talking about mataam or even doing it.

2.) To what extent is it allowed? I always see Molanas beat themselves and I think thats fine because they aren't doing it madly hard but its when people start leaving marks is when I think we have stepped over the red line.

3.) I've heard theres a hadith of the fourth Imaam doing mataam himself, is it sahih? And if it is Sahih then can we cross reference it to another Imaam saying the same thing? So basically more than 1 different narration.

4.) Any explicit reference in the Quran?

 

JazakAllah

 

Wsalaam.

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(salam)

it is obvious that holding Matam, in and of it self, is a kind of commemorating the one we missed him/her, whether he is a great and noble man or our ordinary beloved relatives. and nothing is wrong with that. but the critical point is that, one emphasizes on holding annual ceremony for some religious figures and does some certain actions, maintaining that it is a crucial part of religious approved by Allah, prophet, and Imams. to what extend we are allowed to show our grief? did Imams themselves hold Matam for other oppressed Imams? have they taught their companions how to practice Matam? these are questions, have to be answered in this regard. 

 

Matam in Sunni books:

we have some traditions in Sunni books that prophet himself, when he was back from the Ohod War, demands women of Medina to do Matam for his martyr uncle Hamza. so, basically, doing Matam is not prohibited and there is no sign of Sherk or resemblance to infidels in it, rather it denotes that we as human do have emotions upon the beloved we missed.

 

Matam for Imam Hussein:

although holding annual Matam ceremony is reasonable per se, there is almost no certain traditions saying Shia has to do Matam for all Imams.

the only Imam we have to commemorate his martyrdom with respect to the sayings and behaviors of our Imams, is Imam Hossein.

looking at the history of Shia, we find Imam Sajad, Imam Sadeq, Imam Reza and others were demanding Shia to hold Matam for Imam Hossein and they themselves were participating in such ceremonies, whereas there is no tradition to do the same for other Imams. why is that? I think, they wanted Imam Hossein to be exceptional and the only Flag, invites people to Islam. 

 

simple comparison:

just stay away and look at the two Shia community. once you see them, holding multiple Matam decades for their Imams throughout the year hitting, crying, congregating and so on and sometimes commit actions may seem stupid to those who are not familiar with . but consider a Shia community that only [ten days] in the year, they hold Matam ceremony for one of their Imams, doing their best to show their grief and sad and avoid actions that might look unreasonable.

Edited by hameedeh
[spelling change]

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Salaam,

 

Evidently, mourning for Imam Husayn (a.s.) and commemorating his martyrdom is the most distinctive sign of the Shia and is highly recommended.

 

However, the way of mourning and commemoration differs from culture to culture and country to country. In some cultures, one may tear up one's cloths to manifest sadness; in some other cultures, mourning may be practiced through beating one's head and chest, and so on and so forth. So, there is no certain way for mourning.

 

It is obviously certain, nevertheless, that any sort of mourning is liable to the general rulings of Islam, therefore, it should not contain any prohibited act. So, if a given act of mourning included something haraam, it would not be allowed.

 

In certain cases, there might be special ways of mourning that are not haraam per se, however, they-for any reason- bring dishonor to Islam, and push people away from it. Intellect decrees in such cases that we should refrain from these acts.

 

This intellectual posotion is also supported by hadiths. One among many hadiths that could be cited here is the following:

 

الامام الصادق علیه السلام: معاشر الشیعة کونوا لنا زینا و لا تکونوا علینا شینا

Al-Imam al-Sadiq (a.s.): "O Shia, be a sign of adornment for us and do not be a sign of shame for us. (al-Amaali, p400)

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Question: I have a question about matam (Azadari) and the manner our people are holding Muharram rituals.

 

Answer: The main purpose of mourning during 'Ashura, is to respect and revive the symbols of religion and remember the suffering of Imam Hussain (a.s.), his companions, and his uprising to defend Islam and prevent the destruction of the religion by Bani Umayyad dynasty. These rites must be done in such a way that in addition to serving that purpose, it draws the attention of others to these lofty goals.
 

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Beating and mourning by the wives of the Prophet (s) over his (s) death:

 

As narrated by al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawala):

 

Abbas narrates:

“I heard Ayesha saying “The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women”.

 

Ibn Katheer al Nasibi in al Bidayah wa al Nihayah Volume 5 page 420 published by Nafees Academy Karachi records the event as follows:

 

“Rasulullah (s) died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my face along with other women”.

1. Bidayah wa al Nihayah (Urdu), Volume 5, page 420

2. Sirah Ibn Ishaq, page 713 (declared ‘Hasan’)

3. Sirah Ibn Hisham, Volume 4 page 655

4. Musnad Abi Yala, Vol 8 page 63 Hadith 4586 (Hussain Salim Asad declared it ‘Hasan’ and stated that that the same tradition is recorded in Musnad Ahmad with ‘Sahih’ chain) 

5. Irawa al-Ghalil, Volume 7 page 86 (Declared ‘Hasan’ by Al-Albaani)

 

Likewise we read in Imta al-Asma by Maqrezi, Volume 2 page 137:

 

وقد قامت أمهات المؤمنين يلتدمن على صدورهن وقد وضعن الجلابيب على رؤوسهن ونساء الأنصار يضربن الوجوه وقد بحت حلوقهن من الصياح

 

“The mothers of believers began to hit their chests and put veil upon their heads, while the women of Ansar were hitting their faces and their voice got hoarse due to crying.”

 

Do we need to say any more? Would the wives of the Prophet (s) indulge in a Haraam activity? 

 

Did the wives of the prophet perform idiotic actions?

 

Regards

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Thanks for the answers. It seems quite clear that Mataam is allowed but my main question would be, to what extent?

 

And don't you think that if a non-shia came into a shia mosque he would get frightened if he saw a bunch of people, shirtless, hitting themselves? I'm sure some mosques would have people that would explain to them what we are doing but I can imagine so many mosques where this wouldn't be the case...

 

And what about when theres a Jaloos and people start to do matam on the streets? I reckon for everyone 10 people that see it, only 1-2 actually ask questions.

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Beating and mourning by the wives of the Prophet (s) over his (s) death:
 
As narrated by al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawala):
 
Abbas narrates:
“I heard Ayesha saying “The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women”.
 
Ibn Katheer al Nasibi in al Bidayah wa al Nihayah Volume 5 page 420 published by Nafees Academy Karachi records the event as follows:
 
“Rasulullah (s) died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my face along with other women”.
1. Bidayah wa al Nihayah (Urdu), Volume 5, page 420
2. Sirah Ibn Ishaq, page 713 (declared ‘Hasan’)
3. Sirah Ibn Hisham, Volume 4 page 655
4. Musnad Abi Yala, Vol 8 page 63 Hadith 4586 (Hussain Salim Asad declared it ‘Hasan’ and stated that that the same tradition is recorded in Musnad Ahmad with ‘Sahih’ chain) 
5. Irawa al-Ghalil, Volume 7 page 86 (Declared ‘Hasan’ by Al-Albaani)
 
Likewise we read in Imta al-Asma by Maqrezi, Volume 2 page 137:
 
وقد قامت أمهات المؤمنين يلتدمن على صدورهن وقد وضعن الجلابيب على رؤوسهن ونساء الأنصار يضربن الوجوه وقد بحت حلوقهن من الصياح
 
“The mothers of believers began to hit their chests and put veil upon their heads, while the women of Ansar were hitting their faces and their voice got hoarse due to crying.”
 
Do we need to say any more? Would the wives of the Prophet (s) indulge in a Haraam activity? 
 
Did the wives of the prophet perform idiotic actions?
 
Regards

 

 

 

 

(salam)

You do understand that what you have provided is in no way any evidence to the OP right? His a Shīa Muslim as what appears. Sunni sources are not a Hujja upon us.

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(salam)

You do understand that what you have provided is in no way any evidence to the OP right? His a Shīa Muslim as what appears. Sunni sources are not a Hujja upon us.

 

Thanks for your comments brother. 

 

I have mentioned it  in response to the post no. 5.

 

Yes i do agree with your opinion that sunni sources are not Hujja upon us.

 

Regards

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Did the wives of the prophet perform idiotic actions?
 
Regards

 

 

Your question seems to be directed at me. If your sources are accurate, my answer would be in the affirmative. The prophet's wives are not immune to emotional outbursts. This shouldn't be too surprising if you subscribe to Ali's misogynistic opinions of women.

 

Salam

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الامام الصادق علیه السلام: معاشر الشیعة کونوا لنا زینا و لا تکونوا علینا شینا

Al-Imam al-Sadiq (a.s.): "O Shia, be a sign of adornment for us and do not be a sign of shame for us. (al-Amaali, p400)

 

I think this quote is a motto that one should live by. Coming from a Sunni background, it's taken years for me to understand matam. I still grapple with it. I've never done it myself, but I am a follower of Ahlul Bayt as now.

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