Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
ana_ma3a_al_haq

Why Did Imam Ali (As) Never Ride A Horse ?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

This guy is just wrong.

Obviously he did ride a horse to battle and not in battle, he used a horse on travelling, shopping, fighting.

Many evidence of him in hadith riding horses.

He also was chasing Amr ibn Aas whilst on his horse, during the march to and in the battle Imam Ali was on a horse at jamal, siffein.

I am so horrified at the sheer ignorance of this "learned" person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i also find it hard to imagine Imam never sat on horse in his life ..

And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war 8:60

H 8172, Ch. 1, h 15

“Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn al-Hajjal from Tha’labah from Mu’ammar form abu Ja‘far, Alayhi al-Salam, who has said the following:

 

“I heard him saying, ‘Goodness, all of it, is tied to the forehead of the horses up to the Day of Judgment.’”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2014 at 1:44 PM, Khalilallah said:

This guy is just wrong.

I am so horrified at the sheer ignorance of this "learned" person.

He is Ahmed al-Wa'ili رحمه الله , who has been heavily praised by grand `ulama like al-Khoei and al-Khumayni. You don't have to agree with him on everything but at least show some respect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was in the context of in the midst of battle.

 

This means that while in a battle, Imam Ali (as) is not so low as to run around on his horse slicing peoples' heads off, nor does he need to... We all know he was the most valiant of all.

And if anyone is going to make a claim otherwise, provide a hadith as proof at least...

 

Edit: It's like the armour, if someone were to say I always wore full body armour, that doesn't mean they walk around everywhere with armour, it pertains to war.

 

Imam ‘Ali (a) delivered the following sermon to his army before the battle:

“Do not initiate hostilities as you are on proof and argument and not initiating war is another proof for you. After the enemy is defeated, do not chase anyone who flees. You should neither kill any injured person nor destroy the bodies of the dead. Do not unveil anyone and do not enter the house of anyone. Do not touch any woman even if she abuses you or your government.”

Edited by dragonxx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been looking non stop for the alleged hadiths that Imam Ali (as) chased anyone with his horse and all I found was a youtube video... I really hope the opinion is not based on some movie...

 

Just saw the video again, translation is not correct, should be "He did not ride a horse" rather than "He never rode a horse in his life", therefore it should easier to understand the former in its proper context. Both ways though, it should've been understood.

Edited by dragonxx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how can the above poster say this:

Quote

so low as to run around on his horse slicing peoples' heads off, 

this is an insult to all mujahideen cavalry fighters of the prophet, imams and anybody who ever fought for right sitting on a horse!! This is an insult to the Prophet and Imams themselves who fought on horseback too!!!

H 8160, Ch. 1, h 3

 

Through the chains of his narrator Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated the following:

 

“The Messenger of Allah, O Allah, grant compensation to Muhammad and his family worthy of their services to Your cause, has said, ‘The horses of the people serving in the army are their horses in paradise, and the gowns of the fighters for the cause of Allah are their swords. The Holy Prophet has said, ‘Jibril (Gabriel) has told me something which has made my eyes and heart delightful, “O Muhammad, whoever of your followers fights for the cause of Allah, thereafter even if a drop from the sky falls on him or he experiences a flu, Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Glorious, lists him as a martyr.’”

 

H 8159, Ch. 1, h 2

 

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father, from al-Nawfaliy from al-Sakuniy who has said the following:

 

“Abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, has said that the Messenger of Allah has said, ‘In paradise there is a door which is called ‘the door of people serving in the army’. They walk to it and it is open and they have their swords fixed on them ready and in place. The angels welcome them.’ He then said, ‘Whoever ignores joining the army, Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Glorious, dresses him up with humiliation, poverty and his religion is destroyed. Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Glorious, makes my followers self-sufficient through the hooves of their horses and the points of their spears.’”

 

H 8254, Ch. 17, h 16

 

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from and Muhammad ibn Yahya from Talhah ibn Zayd who has said the following:

 

“Abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, has said that the pagans attacked the pasture area of al-Madina hand an announcer announced, ‘How bad is this morning!’ The Messenger of Allah, O Allah, grant compensation to Muhammad and his family worthy of their services to Your cause, heard it when among people with horses. He rode his horse in pursuit of the enemy. The first of his companions who reached him was abu Qatadah on his horse. Both sides of the saddle of the horse of the Messenger of Allah were made of palm tree fibers and it was not fanciful at all. They searched the enemy but did not find anyone and the group of people on horses came one after the other. Abu Qatadah said, ‘O Messenger of Allah, the enemy has turned back; if you consider it proper allow us to race our horses for a contest.’ He said, ‘That is fine.’ They raced and the Messenger of Allah became the winner among them. He then turned to them and said, ‘I am the descendent of ‘Awatik, three women from Quraysh called ‘Atikah.’ This is al-Jawad al-Bahr (fine horse of the sea that runs in wide manner.

 

H 8270, Ch. 20a, h 7

 

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn Al-Husayn from Ali ibn al-Nu’man from Suwayd al-Qalanisiy fromSama‘ah from abu Basir who has said the following:

 

“I asked abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, ‘Which kind of Jihad is more virtuous?’ He (the Imam) replied, ‘It is the one in which the legs of one’s horse are cut off and his own blood is spilled for the cause of Allah.’”

All from Kafi Volume 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2014 at 2:11 PM, Khalilallah said:

Seriously? 

I don't know whether to cry or laugh.

Cry because Shia brothers and Shia Ulema are saying such things

Laugh because it is so so so so stupid!

Absolutely right, Ulema like this create such a hoax in the tiny little minds of so called ''Shia brothers.'' Personally I don't see anything as shia brothers, yes may be on chat rooms, in news or in fake views. We are all divided shamelessly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2014 at 2:11 PM, Khalilallah said:

Seriously? 

I don't know whether to cry or laugh.

Cry because Shia brothers and Shia Ulema are saying such things

Laugh because it is so so so so stupid!

I've learned great deal about my religion from shiekh waili may Allah have mercy upon him. He is great learned man and he was explaining the meaning of the title that imam Ali earned ( alkarar).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Subhanallah, look how swiftly we humans move to judge one another and how slow we are to understand each other.

Brother peace seeker,

My entire post was about context and yet my post was still taken out of context. What I said was in relation to the video, i.e. he would not chase down those who flee chopping heads left and right.

Furthermore, I quoted the following, 

"After the enemy is defeated, do not chase anyone who flees."

I hope we have come to an understanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2014 at 3:55 PM, Chaotic Muslem said:

I've learned great deal about my religion from shiekh waili may Allah have mercy upon him. He is great learned man and he was explaining the meaning of the title that imam Ali earned ( alkarar).

Ok no insult meant to any body.

Al Karar doesn't that mean attacker? Evidently Imam Ali was brave and he attacked but never fled.

In war horses are crucial, cavalry was like the right arm of any army.

Imam Ali commanded armies of cavalry men.

Please CM, is it not obvious Imam Ali did ride horses in his life?

I understand that Imam Ali out smarted his opponent at the battle of Khandaq by telling him that he rides a horse so he could flee, but that was a part of the Imams tactic in taking down his enemy. 

Imam Ali did ride horses in battle and in peace. There is nothing wrong with doing so.

Even Hassan and Hussein rode horses, Zuljanah is the name of Imam Hussein's horse. riding a horse isn't a bad thing, if Imam Ali's son has done it, so has Imam Ali himself. 

Even the prophet encouraged people to learn horse riding, why? it certainly wasn't so that Arabs be able to flee faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The man in the video says Imam Ali never rode a horse and we know he did ride a horse. I don't see why I have to agree with what I don't think to be the truth.

Unless this video has been taken out of context or the subtitles are wrong, but it is clear Imam Ali did ride horses in his life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother dragon, reading your post really does sound like a generalization, but thanks for explaining. Now i understand what you claim to have meant.

personally i get annoyed by the title of the thread that makes a sweeping assumption, which does not make sense. as well as title of the youtube of course.

of course the quotes of why Imam Ali supposedly didn't ride horses does not make sense:

 

Reason 1

"To catch up with a person fleeing from the battlefield"

Reason 2

"Riding a horse is done to flee from whoever is following him"

sorry, but do i even need to explain why this is nonsense?! how about riding a horse to attack people who are attacking you? wouldn't that be an Islamic reason?  while the above aren't really Islamic. So that insults all riding warriors in history who fought for a good cause, including Prophet, and Imams, and their shia .. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salam,

Brothers as far as i know about this narration it is such that--while going towards battle sm1 asked Imam why don't u ride on a HEALTHY horse then he replied that neither he(imam) chase any running enemy nor he run away from battles so why should he  need any healthy horse t ride over.

But yes as it has  been said in video that he never rode on horse thats doesn't seems correct as many times for battle on far lands with prophet he rode on horse as going mecca to medina and many a time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2014 at 5:13 PM, peace seeker II said:

Brother dragon, reading your post really does sound like a generalization, but thanks for explaining. Now i understand what you claim to have meant.

personally i get annoyed by the title of the thread that makes a sweeping assumption, which does not make sense. as well as title of the youtube of course.

of course the quotes of why Imam Ali supposedly didn't ride horses does not make sense:

Reason 1

"To catch up with a person fleeing from the battlefield"

Reason 2

"Riding a horse is done to flee from whoever is following him"

sorry, but do i even need to explain why this is nonsense?! how about riding a horse to attack people who are attacking you? wouldn't that be an Islamic reason?  while the above aren't really Islamic. So that insults all riding warriors in history who fought for a good cause, including Prophet, and Imams, and their shia .. 

When I said going around "slicing peoples' heads off", this implies that the people attacked are on foot as you would never see a clean decapitation in a battle between cavalry, nor in a regular on foot battle, i.e. Imam Ali (as) is honourable, and would not trample fleeing enemies/cut their heads off whilst he is on a horse, especially when he explicitly says not to chase those who flee from battle.

Ever seen the movie 300?

I hope that wipes any doubt you have of what I meant.

As for the "nonsense" you are referring to, it certainly is nonsense when it is taken out of context.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

taken out of what context? aren't we talking about this video and statements made in this video? don't blame for for other people making mistakes. you're the one out of context here! the video is clear in its statements that are wrong. don't play devils advocate here! stop defending falsehood! obviously those statements are wrong!

Quote

you would never see a clean decapitation in a battle between cavalry, nor in a regular on foot battle, 

really? you sound like you've experienced a lot of battles in that time!

Quote

Ever seen the movie 300?

I hope that wipes any doubt you have of what I meant.

movies are not real and surely no evidence for anything

honestly i don't understand half the things you said in your previous post, but it sounds wrong

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My my, seems I hit a nerve, my apologies for that.

However you don't have to be an ancient ninja to know decapitations don't occur in regular battles, and especially when two people are fighting on foot...

Here, watch this,

Yeah they dramatized it quite a bit, but to the core point, the decapitation,

If you actually believe this happens in regular battles, you're extremely naive.

A warrior would not leave his most vital area so unguarded for a clean cut like that, ever, unless they didn't see it coming (i.e. fleeing).

Even if someone snuck up behind another person who was in the middle of a fight, it still would not happen because the person is continuously moving, where as when you're fleeing, it is linear, you are not ducking weaving dodging and the such.

Hopefully now you understand what "running around on his horse slicing peoples' heads off" means, and that you don't need to be a ninja with 20 years experience to give an opinion on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 - i fail to see the relevance of what you are saying

2 - talking about ninjas .. funny you mention ninjas who use katanas that are slicing devices with the highest likelihood of chopping heads off. study a bit about the katana and how it was used in mideaval japan to chop chop chop peoples heads off with an easy swift swings. it chops anything in its way. you chopped the head off your argument there by mentioning ninjitsu. in any case, try to stay on topic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

living in illusions or what? my coffin? i think you watch too many movies! snap out of it! this is real life .. 

go on proving your points on an islamic forum using hollywood movies :P

here mr. internet tough guy: learn from this fight scene to relate to the Imams and ancient battles:

see and study how a king on horseback acts when confronted with enemies!! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj8KpuJw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam) 

I sincerly appologize if this made some brothers doubt, I always research before I write an article or make a video. From my research I find out that Imam Ali (as) prefered to ride his mule the most. This doesn't mean that he never rode on a horse. To make it more fitting and attractive I made that the title. I changed this to stop the confusion.

It has been also reported that Sheikh Al Ansari one day his students disagreed with him, and tried to create a big discussion. He was seen to be very sad that day and was asked : Are you sad because your students are attacking your views ?
he answered by saying : No I'm more woried about the fact that my students misunderstood me while they see me daily and sit next to me, I'm afraid that on the day of judgement I see great scholars like al toosi and al Sadooq, and they will say to me : Why did you judge us too quick ?
(the point that I'm making here is ask first before you assume brothers and sisters)

I leave this narration which is suficient to explain my view :

''Ali (as) used to ride on a mule which he liked, when the war started he said : (Bring me a horse) he said : A horse was brought to him
(until the end of hadith)''

Mustadrak al wasail/miraza al noori/volume 11/page 105

(12540) 2 - نصر بن مزاحم في كتاب صفين: عن عمر بن سعد، عن الحارث بن حصيرة وغيره، قال: كان علي (عليه السلام) يركب بغلا له يستلذه فلما حضرت الحرب قال: (ائتوني بفرس) قال: فأتي بفرس له ذنوب أدهم يقاد بشطنين (1)، يبحث بيديه الأرض جميعا، وله حمحمة وصهيل، فركبه قال: (سبحان الذي سخر لنا هذا وما كنا له مقرنين).

مستدرك الوسائل - الميرزا النوري - ج ١١ - الصفحة ١٠٥
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...